| 00:01.29 | *** join/#openmoko luck (i=JavaUser@84-73-114-128.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 00:01.33 | luck | why |
| 00:02.50 | *** part/#openmoko luck (i=JavaUser@84-73-114-128.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
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| 00:12.43 | MetaMorfoziS | why.... |
| 00:12.44 | MetaMorfoziS | :) |
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| 00:22.09 | facenew | OT: a 30-min movie mocking kim jong il and his secret agent buying something from china: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=EE52D9ED01495685 |
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| 02:47.52 | darmou | Looks like the cracks are begining to show with the iphone http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9008439 |
| 02:48.31 | darmou | this could be a chance for OpenMoko to capture some of the market by being more advance and have more third party apps |
| 02:48.44 | darmou | advance =advanced |
| 02:50.42 | cjb | darmou: Yes, we've been discussing that. |
| 02:50.56 | cjb | (we == peopke on this channel, not FIC) |
| 02:51.11 | darmou | cjb I guesed that's what you meant |
| 02:52.43 | darmou | Is the wki going to open? I notice it's currently password protected |
| 02:53.24 | cjb | on release day. |
| 02:53.53 | ciastek | oh, is there official wiki? |
| 02:54.53 | bprice20 | and release day is currently ... |
| 02:55.38 | bprice20 | sometime in feb |
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| 03:10.35 | aloril | nick count records: 106 2006-12-04; 108 2006-12-07; 109 2006-12-12; 114 2006-12-13; 116 2006-12-20; 134 2007-01-11; 141 2007-01-12; 143 2007-01-13; 157 2007-01-15; 163 2007-01-16 ; 182 2007-01-17; 185 2007-01-19 ; 197 2007-01-20 ; 201 2007-01-21 |
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| 04:16.02 | aloril | 2 weeks and 6 days for source release |
| 04:17.53 | rwhitby | ... but who's counting |
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| 05:04.18 | WillySilly | lol |
| 05:05.17 | WillySilly | Wonder how they'll give out the free neo1973's |
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| 05:08.33 | cying | WillySilly: golden tickets wrapped in choco- |
| 05:08.35 | cying | oh wait |
| 05:10.45 | rwhitby | WillySilly: "Jan 20 23:27:10 *mickeyl now going through all coreteam@openmoko.org applications to select some devels." |
| 05:11.02 | WillySilly | ah |
| 05:11.46 | WillySilly | Im not much of a coder |
| 05:11.58 | WillySilly | But I do some graphic design |
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| 05:32.10 | aloril | there exists or will soon be available 160GB USB powered mobile harddisks for 119 EUR in Finland at least |
| 05:32.52 | aloril | so battery powered USB hub + above -> lots of space, you don't need to power it all the time, in something like 15minutes you can copy 1GB worth from it to micro SD |
| 05:34.49 | aloril | http://www.lacie.com/fi/products/product.htm?pid=10868 |
| 05:36.23 | aloril | (Finnish link with price and mention that it sound be here at week 4 (so I guess even bigger will be available when Neo1973 is available): http://www.tietoasema.fi/eshop/?sid=1&pcode=301186 ) |
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| 05:42.05 | loufoque | isn't a 1G micro SD already quite costly? |
| 05:42.11 | loufoque | 1GB |
| 05:43.31 | ozamosi | I wonder what will happen "if" (when, that is) I drop my neo into the floor. Will it survive, and if it doesn't: what kind of warranty does it come with? |
| 05:44.21 | *** join/#openmoko munroe_ (n=munroe@CPE000f3d505cab-CM0011ae8a8546.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 05:45.07 | aloril | not really, 34 EUR for high speed one (33 EUR for 'normal' one): http://www.tietoasema.fi/eshop/?sid=1&cid=5&gid=131&sgid=13102&vid=&pcode=SDSDQU-1024-E10M&whid= |
| 05:45.22 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@unaffiliated/ninher) |
| 05:48.02 | aloril | sure if you add hard drive + micro SD + battery powered hub + external digital camera you are over price of iPhone (but probably still under its retail price whatever it is ($200-$400 more than subsided price?)) |
| 05:48.37 | aloril | but you have a lot more space and much better camera; yeah and all of this takes more space too :-( |
| 05:51.10 | loufoque | aloril: external stuff take more place. |
| 05:51.28 | loufoque | you don't carry external camera and hdds with you |
| 05:53.31 | ozamosi | loufoque: I carry my laptop with me - that's quite big and heavy... |
| 05:53.32 | aloril | loufoque: I would/I do |
| 05:53.55 | ozamosi | And I really carry it EVERYWHERE |
| 05:54.02 | aloril | loufoque: and that hard disk is not big, about same size as phone |
| 05:54.37 | loufoque | ozamosi: if you carry your laptop everywhere then you don't really need your phone to be smart, it can just be a regular phone. |
| 05:55.58 | ozamosi | loufoque: the only feature I used on my old phone was the SMS feature, and that was before I had a laptop, so you're right. This is still the phone I want to send SMS:es with. |
| 05:56.28 | ozamosi | And if it's cool enough, I might even check my mail with it :) |
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| 07:28.56 | paulproteus | Will it be possible to get IP connectivity on openmoko somehow? |
| 07:29.12 | paulproteus | Even if there's no wifi, does it have the hardware necessary for using the cell network's IP service? |
| 07:29.51 | rwhitby | yes and yes. you can also get connectivity via bluetooth and usbnet |
| 07:29.57 | *** join/#openmoko z3cka (n=z3cka@nv-71-2-213-25.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 07:36.02 | paulproteus | It doesn't have a camera, right? |
| 07:37.50 | ozamosi | no |
| 07:38.37 | paulproteus | "No" means "No camera", rather than "No, you're wrong, it has a camera", right? (-: |
| 07:38.53 | ozamosi | Yes :) |
| 07:38.56 | ozamosi | No camera |
| 07:39.03 | paulproteus | Cool, I have a good camera anyway. (-: |
| 07:40.11 | guaqua | well, it has a usb connector so :) |
| 07:48.59 | aloril | paulproteus: with (battery) powered usb hub you can connect any camera to it (as mass storage device at least, probably as PTP device too) |
| 07:49.13 | *** join/#openmoko den-ros (n=Den@86.111.18.50) |
| 07:49.47 | paulproteus | aloril, I think this project sounds like the absolute best I'll be able to get before 2008. |
| 07:49.54 | paulproteus | Good point re: battery powered hub. |
| 07:53.42 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas5-ottawa23-1088842556.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 07:53.47 | aloril | maybe it should be called mobile computer instead of mobile phone ;-) |
| 07:55.20 | thedaniel | i'm a big fan of just "mobile" |
| 07:56.24 | paulproteus | Oh, I guess I'm curious about how many hours the battery will go. |
| 07:56.41 | paulproteus | Also if I will be able to wake it up from sleep periodically. |
| 07:56.58 | paulproteus | Like, write a cron job that wakes it every 90m, synchronizes my podcasts, and goes back to sleep. |
| 07:57.15 | paulproteus | I'd need a lower-level process than cron, obviously. (-: |
| 07:57.30 | *** join/#openmoko Issac-S (n=Issac-S@CPE001839c1c0d8-CM0018c0c62322.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 07:57.42 | orospakr | won't the machine be running constantly? |
| 07:57.57 | paulproteus | Maybe it will go to sleep or something, I don't know. |
| 07:58.07 | paulproteus | Maybe GSM events cause "resume from sleep" events just in time. |
| 07:58.19 | paulproteus | What do I know, I just run Linux on the Nintendo DS and laptops and desktops. (-: |
| 07:58.56 | rejon | http://rejon.org/wiki/OpenMoko |
| 07:59.01 | aloril | I think its done by reducing CPU speed to 1/100th or less (at least this is how you reduce power usage with HP 49G+ calculator) |
| 07:59.10 | paulproteus | aloril, Hah! (-: |
| 07:59.16 | aloril | uuips 1/10th or so ;-) |
| 07:59.27 | aloril | or 1/20 |
| 07:59.35 | rejon | If anyone is interested in contributing more long term, I have put up an outline for openmoko on my wiki which I will move over to the openmoko dev. wiki once online |
| 07:59.36 | rejon | http://rejon.org/wiki/OpenMoko |
| 07:59.58 | xkr47 | rejon, I thought we had a wiki already ?-P |
| 08:00.04 | paulproteus | rejon, What, no OpenID? (-; |
| 08:00.11 | rejon | there is no wiki |
| 08:00.24 | guaqua | it's not open yet... |
| 08:00.25 | CM | rejon: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ |
| 08:00.38 | rejon | oh, my bad |
| 08:00.43 | rejon | good i didn't send out that email |
| 08:00.43 | johnny67_ | will openmoko be openid-enabled? |
| 08:00.48 | paulproteus | johnny67_, (-: |
| 08:00.50 | CM | Also unofficial, so not so easy to find |
| 08:01.01 | aloril | there is no official wiki, but until there is above wiki seems to in use |
| 08:01.07 | rejon | just that that list is getting a bit hectic and those problematic/poisonous ppl. need to be capped with positive/redirection to the wiki |
| 08:01.07 | *** topic/#openmoko by paulproteus -> OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.com | http://lists.openmoko.org | 2007 Roadmap: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-January/000000.html | unofficial wiki @ http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ |
| 08:01.07 | *** topic/#openmoko by ChanServ -> OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.com | http://lists.openmoko.org | 2007 Roadmap: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-January/000000.html |
| 08:01.10 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 08:01.11 | paulproteus | Aww! |
| 08:01.35 | xkr47 | rejon already seems to link to the old wiki |
| 08:01.40 | CM | rejon: I agree, and nice initiative on putting up a wiki |
| 08:01.54 | CM | The one I linked to could need some cleaning up too.. |
| 08:02.03 | CM | Will be nice to have an official one |
| 08:02.14 | xkr47 | paulproteus, we'll just need to sit here telling people that :) |
| 08:03.19 | rejon | Yes, part of the issue with the list and it going crazy is that ppl. don't have a place to channel energy |
| 08:03.25 | rejon | thus, that means chaos rules |
| 08:03.48 | rejon | and any and everyones platform becomes the battleground and not the actual goal of the project |
| 08:05.18 | *** topic/#openmoko by rejon -> OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.com | http://lists.openmoko.org | 2007 Roadmap: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-January/000000.html | http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ |
| 08:05.18 | *** topic/#openmoko by ChanServ -> OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.com | http://lists.openmoko.org | 2007 Roadmap: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-January/000000.html |
| 08:05.52 | rejon | I think good strategy for focusing chaotic/poisonous talk is to just redirect those people to the wiki and getting them to add to the project rather than detract |
| 08:07.25 | *** join/#openmoko gambler (n=orion@203-206-24-212.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 08:11.17 | rejon | ok, I've started my cleanup efforts to get these discussions channeled |
| 08:11.20 | rejon | anyone want to help? |
| 08:11.44 | rejon | Basically, take anything that is too long and say, great, please post to the wiki and/or just post it to the wiki...that will help tremendously |
| 08:11.59 | rejon | otherwise, all these threads are kinda going out into the ether |
| 08:13.38 | CM | rejon: I agree. Just did something about the previously awful Ideas/Games page |
| 08:14.02 | CM | Still not good, but it's at least readable now |
| 08:14.26 | *** join/#openmoko tnt_ (n=tnt@130.104.237.182) |
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| 08:31.50 | paulproteus | I updated http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/QuestionsAndAnswers with my Qs (and some As). (-: |
| 08:35.17 | rejon | cool |
| 08:35.28 | rejon | yeah, just need to channel all these discussions |
| 08:35.35 | CM | paulproteus: Nice :) |
| 08:35.37 | rejon | being positive about contributing helps |
| 08:35.43 | rejon | plus lowers the noise level |
| 08:36.07 | paulproteus | Man, my excitement over openmoko made me stay up for two more hours and now I'm hungry again. |
| 08:36.21 | rejon | hahaha |
| 08:39.53 | aloril | what other unreleased product has this many people in a FreeNode channel? ;-) |
| 08:40.38 | ozamosi | aloril: you tell me - you're the one CONSTANTLY monitoring the number of persons in this channel, and comparing it to every other channel on the network :P |
| 08:41.10 | paulproteus | It's like a MySpace or a Facebook group, we're busy counting membership. (-: |
| 08:42.16 | ozamosi | Hm... |
| 08:42.32 | paulproteus | Er, you're not going to *start* a MySpace gropu are you? |
| 08:42.47 | paulproteus | re: hungry: Good thing I bought groceries earlier today. /me goes off and makes a bedtime snack |
| 08:43.05 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@124.178.209.130) |
| 08:45.51 | rejon | yah, well, if this project does nothing, at least the interest is real and can be channeled in other ways... ;) |
| 08:46.33 | rejon | is there a wiki page on software/sync'ing yet |
| 08:46.48 | paulproteus | rejon, http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS7056478804.html |
| 08:47.14 | rejon | I really want to get opensync.org on track |
| 08:47.43 | rejon | that funambol project is real hairy java |
| 08:48.28 | paulproteus | "But it happens to work" (-; |
| 08:49.41 | *** join/#openmoko devbeer (n=57a0facc@lx02a.formativ.net) |
| 08:51.44 | rejon | i haven't had much luck with it |
| 08:51.58 | rejon | I have been trying to use it through www.scheduleworld.com |
| 08:53.41 | *** join/#openmoko ab (n=ab@mail.samba.org) |
| 08:54.11 | aloril | ozamosi: yeah, it seems interest is increasing daily, also seems that iPhone announcement had bigger effect than slashdotting |
| 08:55.16 | ozamosi | aloril: yeah, I was suprised to se the max number of logged in users after the slashdoting was only 1-2 persons more than the day before (according to your statistics) |
| 08:56.08 | aloril | (I have a script so monitoring new records is almost zero effort ;-) |
| 08:56.40 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
| 08:59.34 | ozamosi | Yes... You took the time to write a script to count the number of people in this channel... |
| 09:00.22 | rejon | that is cool |
| 09:00.41 | Paladine | ozamosi, you one of the dudes responsible for this little piece of freedom? |
| 09:01.57 | Paladine | Neo1973 - Freedom in the palm of your hand... |
| 09:02.26 | Paladine | "They can take our call plans but they will never take our Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom!" |
| 09:03.11 | Paladine | should get Mel Gibson to a Braveheart inspired TV commercial for the Neo |
| 09:03.19 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
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| 09:05.23 | *** join/#openmoko Virtuall (n=virtuall@who.is.virtuall.info) |
| 09:06.10 | aloril | ozamosi: actually more than few, about 10% increase from slashdotting, most of its effect was felt probably next day (EET) |
| 09:06.41 | aloril | however, iPhone was over 50% increase ;-) |
| 09:07.10 | Paladine | yeah so nice of Apple to do the marketing for us :) |
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| 09:10.54 | hrw|work | morning |
| 09:13.23 | greentux | morning arounf |
| 09:13.35 | greentux | hrw|work: congrates! for the new job. |
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| 09:35.08 | mattb | Moss-Pultz acknowledges, "I have to give mad props to Nokia."... |
| 09:35.19 | mattb | how often do you hear a representative of your cellphone maker |
| 09:35.23 | mattb | say "mad props" |
| 09:35.25 | mattb | :) |
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| 10:03.55 | CM | Managed to get OpenMoko mentioned in Swedens biggest weekly tech newspaper: http://www.nyteknik.se/art/48697 (In swedish) |
| 10:05.59 | rejon | cool |
| 10:06.03 | rejon | wikitize that :) |
| 10:09.11 | CM | Yeah, is it a collection with mentionings in the news? |
| 10:10.49 | CM | There is.. |
| 10:13.04 | rejon | yes |
| 10:13.13 | rejon | http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/PressCoverage |
| 10:13.21 | rejon | sorry for all the bulk replies y'all |
| 10:13.30 | rejon | i have been adding value to the wiki and not just posting the same link |
| 10:13.31 | rejon | promise |
| 10:13.53 | CM | rejon: Yes, found and updated :) |
| 10:14.27 | rejon | anyway, when there is no code to hack on, so many ppl. get misdirected and want to shoot the messenger and argue on whatever opinion they value strongly...I'ma big boy...done this much ;) |
| 10:17.41 | rejon | night |
| 10:17.53 | *** join/#openmoko tld (n=terje@elde.net) |
| 10:17.54 | hrw|work | thx greentux |
| 10:20.26 | tld | Any plans of a WLAN capable version? |
| 10:20.52 | hrw|work | yes |
| 10:21.02 | hrw|work | tld: 2007-09 or later |
| 10:21.11 | tld | :( |
| 10:21.48 | tld | In order to properly "Free Your Phone" it'd be a great step to support VoIP and the like, allowing you to really take charge. |
| 10:21.53 | tld | Might work fine over GPRS though. |
| 10:21.54 | XorA | why is everyone obsessed with WLAN? |
| 10:22.03 | tld | VoIP/SIP |
| 10:22.06 | CM | I don't get that either |
| 10:22.11 | XorA | tld: ever used a WLAN phone? |
| 10:22.12 | plaes | XorA: because soon it is everywhere.. |
| 10:22.18 | tld | XorA, Yes. |
| 10:22.33 | greentux | somebody remind the openmoko meeting in finland or norway before fosdem? |
| 10:22.35 | tld | XorA, Works great, battery sucks. |
| 10:22.47 | plaes | XorA: what phone? |
| 10:22.53 | XorA | HTC Wizard |
| 10:22.56 | tld | Norway? |
| 10:23.39 | tld | Just thinking your phone isn't really freed up until you can call using your own soft-pbx or softswitch. |
| 10:23.58 | aloril | tld: you can get battery powered usb hub + wifi stick |
| 10:24.23 | tld | aloril, True, and a good idea. It wouldn't be a cellphone anymore though. |
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| 10:25.07 | sjoerd | tld: using the PAN profile of bt should allow you to do that too.. |
| 10:26.29 | tld | Hmmm, that'd actually work rather nicely. |
| 10:26.55 | tld | Any ongoing work being done on a SIP softphone for the phone? |
| 10:27.26 | CM | tld: Not yet. The code isn't out yet, but in 3 weeks it will be |
| 10:27.31 | aloril | tld: umm.. existing software should work? (unless there is some work to do to scale to VGA screen) |
| 10:27.49 | tld | aloril, Yeah, but it's just not the same as having something integrated. |
| 10:27.52 | parag0n | gtk software should |
| 10:28.03 | Tv | well, integration is hard then the platform isn't released |
| 10:28.21 | Tv | s/then/when/ |
| 10:28.22 | aloril | tld: think OpenMoKo as Linux distribution running in a bit limited hardware ;-) |
| 10:28.50 | tld | this might turn out to be pretty fun |
| 10:31.03 | sjoerd | So you might just say send a message to this person and it sends an jabber if your phone is online and the contect is online on jabber and an sms otherwise, that kinda stuff |
| 10:31.38 | aloril | tld: I guess what you mean is integrated with address book, etc.. |
| 10:31.54 | sjoerd | (and the same magic for voice obviously) |
| 10:32.22 | tld | aloril, well, that, and a similar 'look and feel' |
| 10:32.43 | tld | aloril, stock linphone won't really be too sexy on it |
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| 10:41.33 | aloril | tld: I doubt feb version will have it, dunno about march version, probably sure thing for sep version (these are just my guesses) |
| 10:42.45 | tld | aloril, Anyone working on it? (just asking, since my employer could possibly be interested in donating some time. not sure though) |
| 10:45.57 | aloril | tld: I don't know, but I think answer is no, I think they are working on core stuff |
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| 10:46.23 | aloril | tld: I guess once feb comes, we will a lot more on what is actually happening (20 days) ;-) |
| 10:47.31 | tld | :) |
| 10:51.27 | aloril | of course 64MiB flash size limits what will be bundled (not so for user with micro SD) |
| 10:52.54 | spikebik1 | 64MB is pretty big actually |
| 10:53.17 | aloril | yes, but how much of this is left free for user stuff? |
| 10:54.21 | aloril | personally I would like to see some stripped down python to be included (all libraries is too big ;-) |
| 10:54.22 | spikebik1 | yeah |
| 10:54.35 | spikebik1 | nokia770 often has python |
| 10:55.29 | tld | python would be nice |
| 10:55.42 | spikebik1 | googlemaps equiv for the nokia770 is only a 100kb download |
| 10:58.09 | aloril | I think current source doesn't include any scripting language, but it should become bundled with one: making it easy to add stuff even inside phone is good for user |
| 10:59.06 | spikebik1 | let the market decide |
| 10:59.12 | spikebik1 | java's really popular in the phone space |
| 10:59.58 | aloril | spikebik1: yeah, I suspect it will be bundled with java, but you don't really code with java inside phone ;-) |
| 11:00.14 | aloril | (well.. you can, but I doubt it would ever come bundled with requisite stuff ;-) |
| 11:01.13 | aloril | running j2me applications != developing ones |
| 11:01.20 | spikebik1 | inside a phone is not an ideal place for code devel |
| 11:01.29 | aloril | while with scripting language its same thing |
| 11:01.50 | aloril | spikebik1: yeah, true, but I do intend to develop stuff inside phone too ;-) |
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| 11:02.05 | tm | lo |
| 11:02.10 | aloril | spikebik1: but I think creating small ad hoc scripts should suit phone |
| 11:02.21 | spikebik1 | dunno |
| 11:02.28 | spikebik1 | with input so limited |
| 11:02.35 | spikebik1 | and interaction so tough |
| 11:03.06 | aloril | spikebik1: hmm.. sure it stays limited? I think we will invent methods to input stuff in reasonable speed |
| 11:03.47 | aloril | this is VGA screen after all and people certainly coded 20 years ago with those machines ;-) |
| 11:07.41 | XorA | 80x25 used to be my machine |
| 11:09.33 | aloril | ad hoc script: a bit more advanced filter rule for profiles for example |
| 11:11.06 | aloril | or .. special answering button -> run ringer trough special voice menu which might contain code fragments to handle stuff |
| 11:11.31 | aloril | you can't provide GUI for everything, you can't anticipate all user needs ;-) |
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| 11:33.12 | florian | good morning |
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| 11:34.40 | aloril | hi florian |
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| 13:17.05 | Twigman | Neo1973 looks amazing! |
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| 13:28.15 | Demitar | I keep wanting to ask when I can get a Neo1973, even though I know I'll have to wait until march. :) |
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| 13:35.27 | aloril | Demitar: hehe |
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| 14:25.56 | meyerm | morning |
| 14:26.10 | letoto | morning :) |
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| 14:56.19 | theike01 | /usr/bin/fluxbox |
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| 15:48.50 | aloril | "... will you be taking pre-orders |
| 15:48.50 | aloril | > before 2007-3-11 ? |
| 15:48.50 | aloril | Yes. -Sean" http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001880.html |
| 15:50.49 | *** join/#openmoko Garoth (n=garoth@216-154-17-145.dsl.look.ca) |
| 15:51.18 | noidd | that is good news |
| 15:51.24 | noidd | the more devices out there the better |
| 15:52.13 | Garoth | kinda disappointing specs compared to the iPhone, but much better software <3 |
| 15:53.22 | letoto | yeah, wifi should be added asap. even if only via sdio |
| 15:53.22 | Garoth | I was thinking space |
| 15:53.22 | Garoth | What is the point of having a oss device with 64 mb of space? |
| 15:53.41 | Garoth | You couldn't even put all your photos on that little, let alone install and hack on software |
| 15:54.00 | hrw|work | Garoth: add bigger uSD card |
| 15:54.14 | Garoth | Yeah, then the cost is comparable to the iPhone... |
| 15:54.36 | hrw|work | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:54.37 | Garoth | Well... depending on the card, of course. |
| 15:54.49 | Garoth | So there is no hope of them increasing it? |
| 15:54.55 | hrw|work | PCB lack space for larger nand chips |
| 15:55.02 | Garoth | Hmmm... |
| 15:55.31 | Garoth | Then again... it has usb (1.1??) so you could plug in your 4 gig flash drive |
| 15:55.56 | leventhal | iPhone is subsidized, Neo1973 isn't |
| 15:56.16 | letoto | it's not cheaper. $500 USD plus the penalty of a 2 year subscription with Cingular |
| 15:56.43 | hrw|work | iPhone is ONLY for U.S.A. citizens |
| 15:56.49 | Garoth | I didn't say it was cheaper.... |
| 15:56.52 | hrw|work | Neo1973 is worldwide |
| 15:57.12 | Garoth | Mind you, iPhone will be for the world as well, they are just taking too long with it |
| 15:57.15 | hrw|work | for me THIS is blocker in iphone |
| 15:57.19 | Garoth | But don't get me wrong.... |
| 15:57.20 | hrw|work | Garoth: in 2008? |
| 15:57.33 | Garoth | I love open source, and I'll buy a neo way before i buy Apples' stuff |
| 15:57.36 | Garoth | yeah, 2008 is dumb |
| 15:58.12 | Garoth | Yeah. |
| 15:58.17 | leventhal | You guys have launch dates at least |
| 15:58.20 | leventhal | Canada still is ignored |
| 15:58.23 | hrw|work | Garoth: apple will release iphone to cingular in q2/q3 2007. neo1973 v1 will get into worldwide in q3 2007 |
| 15:58.25 | aloril | Garoth: 1GB micro SD costs 33 EUR |
| 15:58.44 | hrw|work | q3 2007 is also work on neo1973 v2 |
| 15:58.47 | letoto | q3 only? |
| 15:58.48 | Garoth | And the other big thing will be when this takes off, and more devices are made. |
| 15:58.50 | letoto | what about march? |
| 15:59.02 | Garoth | march is development release |
| 15:59.08 | Garoth | complete release is september |
| 15:59.31 | Garoth | aloril, didn't know they dropped in price so much, cool. |
| 15:59.31 | *** join/#openmoko CoreDump|home (n=mhentges@hentges.net) |
| 15:59.34 | letoto | the difference being? price? availability? |
| 15:59.43 | Garoth | I don't know |
| 15:59.47 | aloril | Neo1973 also has 4x more pixels |
| 15:59.52 | Garoth | I guess they want to make sure that the platform is stable |
| 15:59.54 | aloril | and of course |
| 16:00.01 | Garoth | yeah, I love the more pixels, I noticed. |
| 16:00.06 | aloril | and of course *the* killer feature: source code |
| 16:00.09 | Garoth | yeah. |
| 16:00.19 | Garoth | Question, what is multi-touch exactly? |
| 16:00.24 | Garoth | And why is it such a big deal? |
| 16:00.50 | *** topic/#openmoko by mickeyl -> OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.com | http://lists.openmoko.org | 2007 Roadmap: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-January/000000.html | http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ | unofficial wiki @ http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ |
| 16:00.58 | mickeyl | ppüs |
| 16:00.58 | aloril | I suspect 2GB micro SD might be much cheaper June (now 77 EUR) |
| 16:01.14 | *** topic/#openmoko by mickeyl -> OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.com | http://lists.openmoko.org | 2007 Roadmap: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-January/000000.html | unofficial Wiki @ http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ |
| 16:01.19 | Garoth | 77 eur is a lot by my standards (Canadian) |
| 16:01.28 | letoto | but using the SD slot with storagem and you cannot have iwfi |
| 16:01.29 | letoto | wifi |
| 16:01.36 | Garoth | Yeah. |
| 16:01.37 | skome | Garoth: ability to use two or more fingers at the same time. Pinch to resize, or rotate, etc. Cool. |
| 16:01.38 | aloril | letoto: its under battery |
| 16:01.38 | letoto | so you cannot put applications that use wifi on SD |
| 16:01.40 | TRIsoft | mickeyl: ppüs ?? |
| 16:01.46 | mickeyl | heh |
| 16:01.47 | Garoth | skome, thanks |
| 16:01.56 | mickeyl | TRIsoft: that was supposed to be 'oops' |
| 16:02.01 | mickeyl | but with a horizontal keyboard offset of +1 |
| 16:02.03 | mickeyl | heh |
| 16:02.09 | Garoth | Yeah, wifi is a must, I guess |
| 16:02.09 | TRIsoft | mickeyl: lol |
| 16:02.24 | Garoth | Why can't they put a usb 2.0 as well... man. |
| 16:02.26 | skome | wifi needs a big ol' battery |
| 16:02.30 | aloril | you can use battery powered USB hub and WiFi stick though |
| 16:02.40 | Garoth | Yeah, the battery needs to be improved to |
| 16:02.42 | leventhal | Garoth: 2GB SanDisk card for $67 on buy.com |
| 16:02.45 | leventhal | Cdn |
| 16:02.51 | Garoth | Nice. |
| 16:03.07 | Garoth | Still not 4 GB, but its good enough |
| 16:03.19 | Garoth | 1.2 hour battery life is dumb, imo |
| 16:03.23 | leventhal | Damn.. my mistake, that was US dollars |
| 16:03.30 | aloril | by the time iPhone is available at Canada I bet 4 GB is available and reasonably cheap ;-) |
| 16:03.32 | letoto | battery powered wifi stick? sounds good is it SD, because I assume USB wont work |
| 16:04.11 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-185-140.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:04.11 | aloril | letoto: it has unpowered USB host support, so 'just' add battery powered USB hub |
| 16:04.13 | leventhal | there is a microSDIO wifi card yes.. I don't expect much of it though and you'd also be depriving yourself of storage |
| 16:05.18 | Garoth | ok |
| 16:05.33 | Garoth | So it uses pure gtk? |
| 16:06.02 | letoto | http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20051118/everything-wifi-on-a-stick/ |
| 16:06.04 | letoto | Hmmmm |
| 16:06.08 | stefan_schmidt | Only one more is needed for 200 people in the channel |
| 16:06.10 | mickeyl | hmm btw. |
| 16:06.18 | mickeyl | did you guys see Sean's interview video @ youtube? |
| 16:06.20 | stefan_schmidt | hi mickem |
| 16:06.24 | stefan_schmidt | hi mickeyl |
| 16:06.35 | TRIsoft | mickeyl: Yep, was nice |
| 16:06.44 | Garoth | yeah, good video |
| 16:06.49 | Garoth | Handsome dude. |
| 16:06.58 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=sajt@dsl54007FE3.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 16:07.01 | Garoth | Oh, flash 9 is out for Linux, I recommend it. |
| 16:07.06 | mickeyl | pretty cool and friendly at the same time |
| 16:07.20 | aloril | MetaMorfoziS: you are 200th person on the channel |
| 16:07.39 | MetaMorfoziS | again;) |
| 16:07.41 | MetaMorfoziS | hi all;) |
| 16:07.48 | Garoth | hey |
| 16:07.49 | MetaMorfoziS | yesterday i'm the 198th |
| 16:07.50 | skome | I was just going to suggest: http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash |
| 16:07.51 | leventhal | letoto: Damn.. that thing is really cool |
| 16:08.10 | skome | unless you just don't like Flash ;-) |
| 16:08.17 | Garoth | Yeah, the new flash is so awesome. Finally alsa sound. |
| 16:08.20 | MetaMorfoziS | is this device have enough power for that? |
| 16:08.26 | letoto | leventhal: yeah. and it might work with the neo |
| 16:08.28 | MetaMorfoziS | it's very exciting |
| 16:08.37 | leventhal | Garoth: Yeah, I was surprised and happy about that. Very nice to not need aoss. |
| 16:08.38 | MetaMorfoziS | (for flash?) |
| 16:09.13 | Garoth | Yeah, Flash9, Linux, ALSA, Faster, Much better sync |
| 16:09.17 | skome | errr, I just meant for stefan_schmidt, to watch an interview |
| 16:09.32 | Garoth | Aha. |
| 16:09.45 | Garoth | #1 thing to port to this new platform: NETHACK |
| 16:10.52 | Garoth | hmmm... so no providers for the neo yet? |
| 16:11.00 | Garoth | As in service providers? |
| 16:11.19 | letoto | http://eye.fi/ |
| 16:11.24 | skome | It's unlocked; any GSM provider should work. Cingular, T-Mobile in the US |
| 16:11.47 | ajturner | letoto, the eye-film is pretty neat |
| 16:12.07 | Garoth | I don't know much about cell phones -- how could you connect to these networks? |
| 16:12.14 | aloril | Garoth: hmm.. www.openembedded.org doesn't have nethack, but still I think simple recompile might work |
| 16:12.29 | Garoth | aloril, I'm happy someone knows what I'm talking about :D |
| 16:12.34 | ajturner | Garoth, GSM is supported on T-Mobile & Cingular/AT&T |
| 16:12.39 | Garoth | Yeah, it wouldn't take much to get it working. |
| 16:12.51 | Garoth | What is GSM? |
| 16:12.59 | Garoth | (Don't have a clue about cell phones, don't have one) |
| 16:13.29 | *** join/#openmoko tld (n=terje@elde.net) |
| 16:13.35 | ajturner | essentially, if you have a T-Mobile or Cingular account, you can put the Sim Chip from the phone you got from them into the Neo to use it on their network |
| 16:14.01 | Garoth | So... does that require opening up your phone? |
| 16:14.11 | ajturner | so if you want to use the neo - I would suggest getting a "free" phone from T-Mobile, which has 1 yr contracts, and then use the Neo |
| 16:14.17 | skome | only the battery port. No tools. |
| 16:14.18 | ajturner | usually behind the battery compartment |
| 16:14.35 | Garoth | Is this meant to be easy to do? |
| 16:14.43 | skome | Yes. |
| 16:14.45 | ajturner | skome - right, so < 1 min, and *very* easy to do, like popping a memory card out of a camera |
| 16:14.52 | Garoth | Oh, ok. |
| 16:15.06 | Garoth | I thought it was like.... installing a chip into an embedded device :X |
| 16:15.20 | Garoth | That's very cool then. |
| 16:15.23 | ajturner | nope - Sim chips are grand |
| 16:15.34 | skome | You can (usually) use the SIM in other phones too. |
| 16:15.51 | Garoth | Yeah. I'm thinking that this thing may be my first cell phone (I'm a late bloomer) |
| 16:16.00 | ajturner | I'd say ;) |
| 16:16.17 | skome | Guess it depends on your vintage ;-) |
| 16:16.21 | Garoth | Lol |
| 16:16.41 | Garoth | Big step forward for OSS, I'm excited. |
| 16:17.16 | Garoth | I hope it sells well as a cheaper iPhone. |
| 16:18.35 | Garoth | Yeah, it should. |
| 16:19.07 | Garoth | Anyways, i need to shuffle on. Nice talking to you guys. |
| 16:19.14 | Garoth | Bye. |
| 16:23.33 | hrw|work | aloril: nethack buildsystem is a nightmare |
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| 16:49.38 | stefan_schmidt | letoto: I just found the recording of your 23C3 talk. Somehow I missed it. I watch it in the evening. http://debian.tu-bs.de/mirror/ccc/23C3/video/23C3-1495-en-green_phone.m4v |
| 16:49.50 | aloril | new record: 202 nicks |
| 16:50.02 | xkr47 | :) |
| 16:50.04 | boorad | CM: ping |
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| 16:59.35 | CM | boorad: Pong :) |
| 16:59.51 | boorad | hey |
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| 17:00.01 | boorad | my gpe-image barfed on xserver-xorg |
| 17:00.15 | CM | Same here, on xserver-xorg-X11R7.1-1.1.0 |
| 17:00.31 | boorad | | accessx.c:(.text+0x4fc): undefined reference to `XkbGetControls' |
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| 17:00.40 | boorad | so you haven't gotten further, then? |
| 17:00.50 | boorad | I was just asking in #oe, no answers |
| 17:01.22 | CM | Nope, stuck there too |
| 17:01.26 | CM | Maybe we can try to block that version or something |
| 17:01.30 | hrw|work | try to build libxkb or xkb |
| 17:03.16 | CM | thanks, I'll try |
| 17:03.41 | hrw|work | libxkbui or libxkbfile |
| 17:03.56 | alp | CM: see this mail? http://lists.ximian.com/pipermail/mono-list/2007-January/033991.html -- am wondering where the question is |
| 17:05.25 | CM | alp: I can't see any question there... But mono on moko sounds nice |
| 17:07.12 | alp | yeah, we'll have it going, and a nice set of bindings and managed d-bus client apis is in order |
| 17:07.22 | CM | hrw|work: Seems like those ones have been built already. Or it can't find any of them. Just says: NOTE: build 200701221805: completed, Attempted builds: 0 |
| 17:07.40 | CM | alp: Cool :) |
| 17:07.42 | alp | the ball was dropped a bit in the early days of the maemo platform which was a shame |
| 17:08.19 | hrw|work | cu |
| 17:08.30 | CM | I saw that post on p.g.o yesterday by MDK |
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| 17:54.34 | boorad | CM: p.g.o ? |
| 17:55.39 | boorad | planet.gnome.org? |
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| 18:51.53 | noidd | Random question |
| 18:52.02 | noidd | is the target machine "native" known to misbehave? |
| 18:52.16 | noidd | I can cross-compile wonderfully but "native" blows up in my face |
| 18:52.51 | noidd | this is native on x86 btw :-) |
| 18:53.02 | noidd | nm |
| 18:53.09 | CM | boorad: Yes, I subscribe to that rss :) |
| 18:53.29 | CM | boorad: Any progress on x11? |
| 18:53.47 | boorad | MDK is the guy who got D running on the nokia, and I want to try with the Neo |
| 18:53.55 | boorad | nope, I'm asking around in #oe, with no takers |
| 18:54.31 | mickeyl | yes, I'm afraid native isn't being looked after for quite a while |
| 18:54.45 | *** join/#openmoko thedaniel (n=daniel@38.98.1.19) |
| 19:00.51 | noidd | Ok, as long as I know |
| 19:01.14 | noidd | I want to build and test and figured that native would be the best target to start with |
| 19:01.25 | noidd | I need to get myself up to speed and re-contributing |
| 19:01.36 | noidd | looks like I'm about to have a love affair with qemu |
| 19:01.46 | CM | Hehe |
| 19:01.50 | noidd | boorad: D, as in the language D? |
| 19:02.14 | CM | I wish qemu would work fine with gcc-4.x and amd64.. |
| 19:02.20 | CM | noidd: Think so |
| 19:02.21 | boorad | noidd: yes |
| 19:04.03 | Stepan | yes, the gcc4 issue is really nasty. and i think paul stopped his native backend work, did he? |
| 19:04.39 | CM | Latest I heard gcc-4.x was supposed to work for 0.8.4 |
| 19:04.49 | noidd | 90% shrinkage should be doable :-) |
| 19:05.18 | CM | noidd: Sounds like me swimming in the sea here when it's 12 degrees.. ;) |
| 19:05.30 | *** join/#openmoko faded515 (n=faded515@cpc3-hatf4-0-0-cust764.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:05.42 | xkr47 | 47 days! 4 hours! 54 minutes! |
| 19:05.55 | noidd | hehe, we need a real timer :-) |
| 19:06.21 | xkr47 | perl -e '$|=1;$x='`date --date "2007-03-11 00:00:00 GMT" +%s`';while(1){$t=time();$d=$x-$t;$s=$d%60;$d/=60;$m=$d%60;$d/=60;$h=$d%24;$d/=24;printf("\r%d days %2d:%02d:%02d",$d,$h,$m,$s);sleep(1);}' |
| 19:06.25 | xkr47 | there you go |
| 19:06.35 | xkr47 | run it in your favourite terminal :) |
| 19:06.37 | leventhal | I'll set it on my blog and race openmoko vs iphone |
| 19:06.44 | leventhal | iphone is undefined so i bet openmoko will win |
| 19:06.45 | xkr47 | leventhal, :DD |
| 19:12.42 | *** join/#openmoko variant (n=variant@unaffiliated/variant) |
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| 19:14.27 | noidd | xkr47: Another perl hacker - rock on |
| 19:14.56 | xkr47 | :) |
| 19:16.23 | noidd | gotta build the XS modules for the new OpenMoko Gtk2 classes |
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| 19:31.45 | MDK | boorad: I got reply from David |
| 19:32.04 | MDK | boorad: he's working on support for 4.1.x, he's 50% done |
| 19:32.23 | MDK | boorad: when that's finished, gdc should run fine for arm-*-gnueabi |
| 19:35.47 | boorad | MDK: I got that same reply myself ;) |
| 19:36.14 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84-122-63-17.onocable.ono.com) |
| 19:36.22 | boorad | he said a couple of weeks and 4.1.1 might be ready |
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| 19:49.46 | CM | ~ugt |
| 19:49.51 | apt | i heard ugt is Universial Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
| 19:50.18 | koen | MDK: that's good news about D |
| 19:50.35 | variant | apt: lol nice |
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| 20:04.28 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@ip5652fe27.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) |
| 20:08.22 | Psi_ | does anyone know when this appeared on the openmoko website? "We had some hardware issues that set us back about a month. But now we're back on track and should start shipping in February." |
| 20:08.47 | MDK | Psi_: some time ago, before the annoucement |
| 20:08.53 | Psi_ | ah, k |
| 20:08.54 | Fletch | topic |
| 20:09.22 | Psi_ | Fletch, i cant see anywhere in the topic that it says the date of those words |
| 20:16.59 | Psi_ | do you think the reason for a 2.5mm headphone jack is because of space available in the phone? |
| 20:17.07 | Psi_ | seems quite odd otherwise |
| 20:18.53 | hrw | 2.5mm are standard in phones |
| 20:19.18 | Psi_ | ah |
| 20:19.19 | hrw | you can get headsets with 2.5mm without problems |
| 20:19.25 | Psi_ | cool |
| 20:19.47 | mickeyl | yes, it's because of space |
| 20:19.48 | hrw | getting good headset with 3.5mm is hard - you can get voip ones but they are rather huge |
| 20:20.43 | Psi_ | its not too bad, ya just have to solder a 2.5mm plug on or use an adapter |
| 20:20.53 | hrw | http://neatorama.cachefly.net/images/2007-01/mcgyver-paperclip.jpg |
| 20:21.06 | Psi_ | hrw, didnt you mean 2.5? |
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| 20:22.14 | Psi_ | hrw, ah, i get you |
| 20:22.33 | hrw | xkr47: stereo HP + mic? |
| 20:22.41 | xkr47 | mono + button |
| 20:22.44 | xkr47 | + mic |
| 20:23.02 | hrw | I use SE 750i with original stereo HP + mic + button |
| 20:23.08 | xkr47 | can't open these without breaking them.. so I dunno if there's any logic inside |
| 20:23.13 | hrw | rather not |
| 20:23.16 | xkr47 | with moko ? |
| 20:23.29 | xkr47 | or what's SE750i ?-) |
| 20:24.01 | hrw | Sony Ericsson k750i cellphone |
| 20:24.26 | xkr47 | ah ok |
| 20:24.39 | hrw | Bt 1.x, memorystick duo slot, 2mpix camera, 30MB of internal memory, 176x220 screen |
| 20:26.09 | xkr47 | anyway maybe they use the same connector wiring, just that I have mono only since I have no radio |
| 20:26.09 | xkr47 | or mp3 playing |
| 20:26.09 | hrw | xkr47: I have calls in stereo |
| 20:26.09 | xkr47 | nice |
| 20:26.10 | xkr47 | woot :) |
| 20:26.10 | xkr47 | voip ? |
| 20:26.10 | hrw | normal gsm ones |
| 20:26.11 | xkr47 | strange.. never heard you could have stereo phone calls |
| 20:26.11 | xkr47 | :) |
| 20:26.16 | hrw | why not? it is just simple routing of audio |
| 20:27.09 | xkr47 | well maybe with gsm.. but I still think of phone technology as it was when you had wired telephone connections |
| 20:28.03 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 20:29.52 | xkr47 | :) |
| 20:29.54 | greentux | hrw: gsm has not the bandwidth for stereo calls. you need two phones |
| 20:29.56 | hrw | bbiab |
| 20:30.12 | xkr47 | hmm yeah :) |
| 20:32.01 | hrw | greentux: I'm not saying about gsm part but gsm(mono)->phone(mono->stereo)->headphones(stereo) |
| 20:32.11 | xkr47 | ah |
| 20:34.45 | noidd | Heh, I friend of mine just said this on another channel: |
| 20:34.47 | noidd | <StooWork> http://www.fic.com.tw/service/branches.aspx 5020 Brandin Court, Fremont, CA 94538 |
| 20:34.47 | noidd | <StooWork> Less than 2 miles away - no, about those smoke and stun grenades |
| 20:34.58 | noidd | he is impatient |
| 20:40.12 | marcellus | Was there any reason why Maemo wasn't adopted? |
| 20:41.27 | koen | yes |
| 20:41.31 | hrw | marcellus: maemo need 800x480 resolution and waste space |
| 20:41.43 | koen | marcellus: it requires a patched gtk |
| 20:41.59 | hrw | koen: and many other patched-like-hell libs |
| 20:42.10 | xkr47 | you know what, it feels great to have so many experts around :) |
| 20:42.21 | koen | hrw: not anymore :) |
| 20:42.35 | koen | hrw: as far as I found out, gtk+ is the only patched to hell dep for maemo3 |
| 20:42.49 | koen | maemo1 and maemo2 requires forks of nearly everything |
| 20:42.51 | xkr47 | you feel like "I can just lay back for a while, and things will go right.. and when I feel there's job for me, I just hop in and it's like everybody was expecting you :)" |
| 20:43.16 | koen | marcellus: see http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2006/10/28/gtk-theming-woes-for-embedded-guis/ |
| 20:49.24 | xkr47 | good link (tm) |
| 20:51.10 | variant | nah, they will ship them to hk first so there is a central distribution point ;) |
| 20:51.23 | xkr47 | hk ?-) |
| 20:51.47 | variant | hongkong |
| 20:54.57 | leventhal | I love ordering from hong kong |
| 20:55.13 | leventhal | There's flights HK -> Toronto daily and customs doesn't bother to convert HK$ to Cdn$ for taxes.. usually they don't charge any. |
| 20:55.26 | leventhal | Most of the time I get stuff from HK faster than from the US |
| 20:55.32 | xkr47 | lol |
| 20:55.51 | guaqua | haha |
| 20:56.10 | guaqua | i wonder what's the case for ordering to finland |
| 20:56.28 | guaqua | probably $350 + shipping + 22% VAT |
| 20:56.53 | leventhal | .. hm. I hope they declare it in HK$ rather than US$ |
| 20:57.19 | mikesh | guaqua: 19% to czech |
| 20:57.30 | guaqua | not that much cheaper :/ |
| 20:57.32 | leventhal | 15% here.. but 15% of estimated Canadian value. :/ |
| 20:57.37 | hrw | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:58.05 | guaqua | we pay no special customs stuff, only vat for electronics |
| 20:58.18 | mikesh | thats true |
| 21:00.34 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:00.40 | guaqua | so the price with shipping and all is probably around 350 euros |
| 21:00.58 | koen | probably more |
| 21:01.14 | buz | vat alone is about 18% in EU |
| 21:01.16 | koen | $350 == €350 when it comes to worldwide shopping |
| 21:01.40 | guaqua | that 350 is with shipping and finnish vat |
| 21:04.08 | *** join/#openmoko vetetix (n=vetetix@74.24-218-195.adsl.internet.lu) |
| 21:04.43 | buz | how much vat in .fi |
| 21:05.29 | *** part/#openmoko vetetix (n=vetetix@74.24-218-195.adsl.internet.lu) |
| 21:06.34 | variant | openmoko will have 2mp camera right? |
| 21:06.40 | Psi_ | no |
| 21:06.46 | Psi_ | not the first version |
| 21:06.52 | variant | no cam at all? |
| 21:06.54 | Psi_ | and its not called openmoko |
| 21:07.00 | LoRez | neo1973 |
| 21:07.04 | variant | yeah sorry hehe |
| 21:07.09 | Psi_ | no camera in first version |
| 21:07.13 | variant | ok |
| 21:07.21 | variant | it's a phone not a camera after all :) |
| 21:07.25 | Psi_ | specs of the second version is unknown |
| 21:07.31 | guaqua | buz: 22% |
| 21:07.36 | buz | ouch |
| 21:07.57 | guaqua | and also, vat != sales tax |
| 21:08.08 | variant | open moko mailing lists are very busy it seems! |
| 21:08.14 | Psi_ | hehe yeah |
| 21:08.38 | wabz | they're so full of noise I unsubscribed |
| 21:08.42 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-124-39-225.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 21:08.52 | wabz | my msgs never got to it either, which was a bit odd |
| 21:09.24 | variant | is the physical design of the new1973 (that seen in photos onthe web) finnished? It looks pretty dam nice in my view |
| 21:09.36 | variant | neo* |
| 21:09.42 | CM | VAT in Sweden is 25%... *sigh* |
| 21:09.50 | koen | fwiw: python-core + libpython = 0.5MB on arm when built with OE |
| 21:09.51 | wabz | yeah i want to see a photo of it in someone's hand :p |
| 21:09.53 | *** join/#openmoko quitte (n=quitte@217.190.4.106) |
| 21:10.02 | koen | wabz: search flickr |
| 21:10.07 | Psi_ | wabz, yeah, we all do |
| 21:10.08 | wabz | CM: do you guys pay any income tax? |
| 21:10.43 | CM | wabz: 33% for the first 50k USD/year, then higher up to 55% or so.. |
| 21:10.47 | koen | wabz: http://www.flickr.com/photos/palmsolo/351010014/ |
| 21:10.49 | greentux | hrw: ok, understand |
| 21:10.50 | wabz | woah |
| 21:10.58 | CM | It's no joke.. |
| 21:11.10 | wabz | cool koen |
| 21:11.19 | wabz | is that a huge hand? :p |
| 21:11.25 | CM | Hehe... Sure is |
| 21:11.26 | koen | :) |
| 21:11.46 | CM | boorad: Got gpe-image built after koens update of xorg-server |
| 21:11.56 | Psi_ | koen, nice |
| 21:12.04 | variant | koen: looks nice.. |
| 21:12.05 | CM | boorad: Update your mtn database and upsate org.open.. |
| 21:12.06 | boorad | CM: coolness - svn up? |
| 21:12.13 | boorad | ooh, mtn, sorry |
| 21:12.18 | variant | I take it it will have onscreen keypad only? |
| 21:12.21 | Psi_ | i wonder if there will be any color options, and if so, what they will be |
| 21:12.53 | guaqua | i hope there are no |
| 21:12.55 | koen | mtn pull ; mtn up |
| 21:12.58 | CM | boorad: Do the mtn --db=... pull monotone.openembedded.org org.openembedded.dev first |
| 21:13.04 | CM | Aha, just pull? |
| 21:13.32 | boorad | CM: download a new db first? |
| 21:13.40 | CM | Yes, as koen said :-) |
| 21:13.46 | CM | pull it |
| 21:13.57 | koen | cd org.openembedded.dev ; mtn pull ; mtn up |
| 21:14.10 | variant | Psi_: http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/fic_traveler_handset_fic-gta001.jpg |
| 21:14.15 | variant | Psi_: colours :) |
| 21:14.46 | Psi_ | ah, of cause, i forgot |
| 21:15.25 | noidd | I still want to know why the hole in the phone :-) |
| 21:15.33 | Psi_ | still, we dont know exactly how many colors / outerrings there are |
| 21:15.49 | variant | noidd: for a handy strap :) |
| 21:15.50 | Psi_ | noidd, are we sure its actually a hole? |
| 21:16.08 | noidd | I am about 99% sureit is now |
| 21:16.12 | *** join/#openmoko lonnb (n=lonnb@i-83-67-202-74.freedom2surf.net) |
| 21:16.13 | *** join/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R1acf.r.pppool.de) |
| 21:16.14 | variant | It should have handwriting recognition of course.. or not? |
| 21:16.15 | noidd | look at the video on youtube |
| 21:16.23 | noidd | you can see Seans fingers through the hole |
| 21:16.39 | Psi_ | variant, it will if someone writes one |
| 21:16.45 | *** part/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R1acf.r.pppool.de) |
| 21:16.46 | variant | Psi_: hehe |
| 21:16.57 | Psi_ | so, i guess thats a yes :) |
| 21:17.52 | Psi_ | noidd, yeah, i agree, you can see the finger through the hole |
| 21:21.04 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-185-140.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:23.11 | rob_w | italian army , hehe |
| 21:23.57 | rob_w | thousands of applications .. yeayeah dude |
| 21:25.04 | variant | i want to see quake 1/2 and doom ported to it asap.. :D |
| 21:25.13 | Psi_ | heh |
| 21:25.49 | thedaniel | bluetooth HID profile gamepads - they must exist, right? |
| 21:25.54 | boorad | CM: did gpe-image rebuild a bunch of other packages (again) after the mtn up? |
| 21:25.59 | hrw | variant: prboom is ready, quake1 too |
| 21:26.13 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:26.30 | hrw | thedaniel: they are |
| 21:27.31 | variant | awsome |
| 21:28.04 | rwhitby | wii controller is bluetooth, right? |
| 21:28.14 | thedaniel | it is |
| 21:28.15 | Psi_ | lol |
| 21:28.19 | thedaniel | the accelerometers anyway |
| 21:28.29 | rwhitby | neo in one hand, wii controller in the other. |
| 21:28.32 | thedaniel | the pointer needs an ir reference |
| 21:28.32 | koen | rwhitby: http://pigeond.net/?cat=flightgear&comments=fg-wiimote |
| 21:28.42 | leventhal | rwhitby: and use them to control a roomba? |
| 21:28.56 | noidd | hmm, gpe-image just blew up on me during bbimage |
| 21:29.02 | noidd | time to go a'diggin' |
| 21:30.44 | guaqua | the thing i |
| 21:31.53 | guaqua | the feature i'd like to see the most is good syncing capabilities between the phone and the various apps i have on my own computer. the way apple does them...get podcasts automatically, calendar syncs automatically... |
| 21:32.07 | guaqua | is there a "wishlist" somewhere? :) |
| 21:33.55 | morricone | the unofficial Wiki |
| 21:35.32 | rwhitby | I want it to seamlessly roam between bluetooth access points at my home and work ... |
| 21:36.39 | koen | mobile ipv6! |
| 21:37.10 | guaqua | rwhitby: :D |
| 21:37.19 | leventhal | mobile ipv6 would be awesome |
| 21:40.27 | leventhal | i finally got ipv6 set up.. so yeah, time to buy a ton of domains and get silly vhosts |
| 21:40.27 | icblenke | no net and tunnelling? |
| 21:40.28 | *** join/#openmoko caicon (n=ciacon@e181023179.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:40.56 | guaqua | they decided i was giving away ipv6 connections to others... |
| 21:41.42 | guaqua | ...and that was deduced from the fact that i used the nameservers of a big shell provider |
| 21:42.24 | *** join/#openmoko pgas (n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/pgas) |
| 21:42.44 | LittleIdiot | well, that often implies dns pollution and that forbidden by their policies ;) |
| 21:42.58 | LittleIdiot | has anyone of you tested mobile ipv6 yet? |
| 21:43.13 | guaqua | afaik kapsi (which is the shell provider) has stricter dns pollution rules than sixxs |
| 21:43.26 | guaqua | and i'm also an sysadmin of kapsi...so i should know... |
| 21:43.30 | leventhal | guaqua: Yeah.. but I intend to pollute dns. |
| 21:43.49 | hrw|gone | cu |
| 21:48.21 | *** join/#openmoko leiah02 (n=aplsuxso@67-150-244-46.oak.mdsg-pacwest.com) |
| 21:48.48 | *** join/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R1acf.r.pppool.de) |
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| 21:52.56 | *** part/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R1acf.r.pppool.de) |
| 21:53.28 | *** join/#openmoko Cybertoy (n=cybertoy@dsl254-123-112.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 21:54.13 | Ghiottone | hi all |
| 21:55.48 | LittleIdiot | i was thinking a bit about the idea of using the neo as home automation controller... how about a bluetooth headset batch in the form of the ones they use at the enterprise? ;) |
| 21:56.21 | LittleIdiot | well, just a microphone actually |
| 22:01.03 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@195.227.105.180) |
| 22:13.14 | *** join/#openmoko walec (n=walec@97-44.echostar.pl) |
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| 22:44.45 | caicon | iI have a q to the mass... sorry... I didn´t have much time to read - my INet keeps on colapsing - when is the Neo1973 starting to ship? |
| 22:45.15 | guaqua | feb something |
| 22:45.25 | caicon | to Ger too?? |
| 22:45.41 | Ghiottone | no it is going to ship on march 11 |
| 22:46.24 | caicon | March 11 is the 70th day of the year in the Gregorian Calendar (71st in Leap year). There are 295 days remaining..... ;-)... Trillian is a great tool^^ |
| 22:46.29 | *** join/#openmoko jtoy (n=jtoy@cust-206-40-173-221.bos-static.gis.net) |
| 22:46.40 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 22:47.03 | *** join/#openmoko xaviderman (i=sdgxqg@h678631.serverkompetenz.net) |
| 22:47.13 | xaviderman | hLO |
| 22:47.20 | paulproteus | Hey now xaviderman. |
| 22:47.29 | ciacon | hi xaviderman |
| 22:47.39 | xaviderman | hi to all |
| 22:47.41 | xaviderman | halo |
| 22:47.46 | xaviderman | ciacon |
| 22:47.51 | xaviderman | paulproteus |
| 22:48.12 | ciacon | jo |
| 22:48.13 | xaviderman | how re u? |
| 22:48.30 | xaviderman | jo? |
| 22:48.35 | guaqua | gua@angeldust:~$ ddate 10 03 2007 |
| 22:48.35 | guaqua | Prickle-Prickle, Chaos 69, 3173 YOLD |
| 22:48.52 | paulproteus | I'm pretty well! |
| 22:51.36 | xaviderman | great |
| 22:51.45 | xaviderman | where r u? |
| 22:57.37 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 23:03.27 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB7070F.ipt.aol.com) |
| 23:07.46 | *** join/#openmoko bprice20 (n=brandon@cpe-74-67-56-138.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 23:08.26 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil (n=mauve@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 23:10.36 | bprice20 | is this room ever busy? |
| 23:11.01 | alphaone | LOL |
| 23:11.11 | bprice20 | why and the bored would you do that |
| 23:11.16 | xkr47 | :D |
| 23:11.53 | bprice20 | Thats also assuming you have a lock on a date |
| 23:12.25 | xkr47 | mm |
| 23:13.06 | SpeedEvil | First time visitor, /window log on |
| 23:13.09 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 23:14.02 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. First impressions and all. :) Is the phone US only, or will it work in the UK? |
| 23:14.18 | guaqua | quad-band |
| 23:14.24 | xkr47 | the phone is GSM 4-band with GPRS, bluetooth and GPS |
| 23:14.40 | Psi_ | i thought it was triband? |
| 23:14.56 | icblenke | no EDGE? |
| 23:15.05 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 23:15.11 | bprice20 | agps. |
| 23:15.18 | bprice20 | no edge yet. |
| 23:15.23 | SpeedEvil | Almost perfect - I'd like wifi. |
| 23:15.30 | bprice20 | wouldn't we all |
| 23:15.32 | Psi_ | Ti GPRS (2.5G not EDGE) |
| 23:15.32 | LittleIdiot | everybody does ;) |
| 23:15.41 | SpeedEvil | I gathered :) |
| 23:15.58 | paulproteus | SpeedEvil, I hear the follow-up phone might have it (a Linuxdevices.com interview mentioned the possibility). |
| 23:15.58 | bprice20 | as I was reading apparently they can't do wifi yet do to licensing all the good chipsets have closed source drivers |
| 23:16.00 | LittleIdiot | why not ralink? they have open drivers |
| 23:16.51 | bprice20 | I am guessing that ralink if they have open drivers did not meet the requirements for power usage |
| 23:17.09 | Psi_ | this first phone, is, i think, to get lots of people developing apps for the OS |
| 23:17.14 | Psi_ | hence, cheap |
| 23:17.42 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - power is a horrible problem in a phone. |
| 23:17.43 | guaqua | 350 gringos is not cheap |
| 23:17.50 | bprice20 | now mind you, when dealing with 802.11x chipsets there are really 2 parts of what would be called "a driver" |
| 23:17.52 | guaqua | 200 would be cheap |
| 23:17.52 | SpeedEvil | It's not expensive. |
| 23:17.58 | Psi_ | ^ |
| 23:18.06 | SpeedEvil | Subsidised phones are _often_ at the 350 level |
| 23:18.10 | bprice20 | there is the actual kernel module and.... anyone care to interject or should I continue |
| 23:18.15 | guaqua | well the price is borderline okay |
| 23:18.25 | LittleIdiot | its mid-range... there are some phones that cost much more and have smaller non-touchscreen displays... |
| 23:18.33 | SpeedEvil | the bit in the wifi card processor? |
| 23:19.13 | bprice20 | no speedy, the actual firmware that talks bits to the physical asics |
| 23:19.33 | bprice20 | think of it as an abstraction layer |
| 23:19.47 | SpeedEvil | The firmware in the processor. |
| 23:19.49 | *** join/#openmoko Chris_Ze_German (n=chris@adsl-75-62-126-199.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:19.57 | SpeedEvil | I mean. |
| 23:20.04 | bprice20 | you got it |
| 23:20.39 | bprice20 | so you will find cards that have reverse engineered drivers that have the kernel module part but not the firmware |
| 23:20.50 | SpeedEvil | zydas |
| 23:20.56 | SpeedEvil | they ship linux source drivers. |
| 23:21.02 | SpeedEvil | For the USB stick. |
| 23:21.20 | bprice20 | which is enough to make the card work but not enough if say you wanted to come up with some zip bang way to improve the performance of the card |
| 23:21.23 | SpeedEvil | Though I assume there are power reasons why it won't work. |
| 23:21.33 | SpeedEvil | yeah - you want the embedded code too. |
| 23:21.56 | SpeedEvil | Be able to blip the radio on and off for example. |
| 23:21.58 | bprice20 | speedy, can you find out what chipset they use, cause thats what you would actually need to know to begin to look into the firmware |
| 23:22.04 | bprice20 | yes |
| 23:22.23 | SpeedEvil | Zydas is a chipset maker AIUI. |
| 23:22.36 | bprice20 | never heard of em |
| 23:23.01 | bprice20 | and the firmware? |
| 23:23.06 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
| 23:23.16 | SpeedEvil | http://www.umc.com/english/news/20040414.asp |
| 23:23.24 | bprice20 | any ideas that you think are good ones should probably be posted on the non official wiki |
| 23:23.27 | SpeedEvil | the firmware is a binary blob of course. |
| 23:23.34 | bprice20 | till a real one comes online |
| 23:23.43 | SpeedEvil | Where is it - I haven't found it. |
| 23:24.11 | bprice20 | err 1 sec |
| 23:24.20 | SpeedEvil | Only found out about this a few mins ago. I'll go google. |
| 23:24.26 | bprice20 | http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko |
| 23:25.13 | SpeedEvil | ah, thanks. |
| 23:25.21 | bprice20 | np |
| 23:26.23 | bprice20 | There is too much chatter in the mailing list as usual irc is much better |
| 23:26.28 | bprice20 | more intelligent questions |
| 23:27.34 | LittleIdiot | but you can't delete whole threads in irc ;) |
| 23:27.34 | retracile | the wifi chip OLPC is using might prove interesting for the 2nd version. |
| 23:27.50 | bprice20 | true, |
| 23:29.50 | so_solid_moo | that's also non-free tho |
| 23:29.59 | cjb | retracile: Probably too overengineered/expensive for the openmoko. It's a very powerful chip. |
| 23:30.07 | cjb | so_solid_moo: The driver is GPL, the firmware is a blob. |
| 23:30.40 | cjb | retracile: It has an embedded CPU/RAM, so that it can continue to forward packets while the host computer's asleep, for example. Other wifi chips don't do that. |
| 23:31.28 | retracile | cjb: point. I was thinking about it from the power consumption & open drivers side. |
| 23:32.06 | cjb | yeah, makes sense for that. but so would a Lucent Wavelan from 2000. ;-) |
| 23:32.57 | bprice20 | wow someone else that remembers those things |
| 23:33.09 | cjb | bprice20: more than remembers -- I still use one. :) |
| 23:33.22 | cjb | I don't like binary blobs, so not much choice.. |
| 23:33.25 | xorAxAx | cjb: in a newton? :) |
| 23:33.56 | xorAxAx | ah, the blob is the reason |
| 23:34.04 | cjb | xorAxAx: notice the card sticking out of http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:AP1_39.jpg :) |
| 23:34.27 | xorAxAx | hehe |
| 23:34.48 | SpeedEvil | I assume nthere are no pictures? |
| 23:35.01 | SpeedEvil | Obfuscated source? |
| 23:35.09 | SpeedEvil | Or p-code |
| 23:35.14 | cjb | I heard that the wireless chip the xbox 360 uses (connected by usb, I think?) is extremely similar to the olpc's, to the point that the same Linux kernel driver works. |
| 23:35.16 | cjb | SpeedEvil: of what? |
| 23:35.26 | xorAxAx | SpeedEvil: no, try harder :) |
| 23:35.39 | cjb | oh, wait -- the openmoko has USB? so, we could just connect a USB wifi adaptor to it? |
| 23:35.40 | bprice20 | does anyone know if there will be an embedded web browser |
| 23:35.41 | SpeedEvil | The firmware of the radio microcontroller, or driver hardware. |
| 23:35.51 | SpeedEvil | yes, you can - through a powered hub |
| 23:35.52 | xorAxAx | cjb: if you power it, yes |
| 23:35.59 | cjb | Ah, that's more difficult. |
| 23:36.27 | cjb | Are there any candidate USB wireless cards that are self-powered that we might use? |
| 23:36.27 | SpeedEvil | It'd be nice if there was a standard extension format. |
| 23:36.34 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 23:36.53 | SpeedEvil | However, it's trivial to glue 2 AAA batteries and a step-up converter together. |
| 23:37.03 | *** part/#openmoko retracile (n=retracil@63.219.98.162) |
| 23:37.27 | cjb | Right. :) |
| 23:37.31 | SpeedEvil | Which should give several hours. |
| 23:37.31 | Psi_ | heh |
| 23:38.24 | cjb | Yeah. If someone were to actually build them, I think you'd have a few thousand openmoko buyers interested. :) |
| 23:38.28 | SpeedEvil | It'd be nice if there was a battery out connector next to the USB connector, all on one end, which peripherals could just clip onto. |
| 23:38.56 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (i=Mac@p57A29E32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:39.58 | cjb | buy cheap USB wireless dongles that have Linux drivers available, put in altoids can with batteries/convertor attached, put on Internet for $50-$100, profit. :) |
| 23:40.01 | SpeedEvil | I suppose li-ion AAA cells may be the better way to go. |
| 23:41.40 | SpeedEvil | I assume no pictures, or exact mechanical drawings are available. |
| 23:41.53 | cjb | of what? |
| 23:42.05 | SpeedEvil | The phone. |
| 23:42.22 | cjb | yeah, not that I've seen. |
| 23:42.24 | SpeedEvil | Or I've been very lucky in avoiding them. |
| 23:42.26 | SpeedEvil | K |
| 23:43.27 | bprice20 | SpeedEvil there are pictures |
| 23:43.33 | SpeedEvil | Unfortunately no time at the moment to do any serious work - currently trying to put my house back together - http://www.mauve.plus.net/walls/ |
| 23:43.41 | SpeedEvil | There are? |
| 23:43.45 | cjb | bprice20: He means internal pictures, I presume. |
| 23:43.45 | bprice20 | there are some in th press release |
| 23:44.06 | bprice20 | no internals |
| 23:44.08 | bprice20 | sorry |
| 23:44.11 | cjb | SpeedEvil: url doesn't resolve |
| 23:44.28 | SpeedEvil | Unfortunately no time at the moment to do any serious work - currently trying to put my house back together - http://www.mauve.plus.com/walls/ |
| 23:45.02 | bprice20 | looks like my 1st apartment |
| 23:45.26 | cjb | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:45.29 | cjb | oops |
| 23:45.48 | SpeedEvil | Oooh - pretty. |
| 23:46.11 | cjb | ? |
| 23:46.27 | SpeedEvil | The phone. Nice clean simple design. |
| 23:47.38 | SpeedEvil | And if it was the walls - currently uninsulated + fuel bills too high + insulation = win. |
| 23:59.56 | nnpiggy | xorAxAx did you get your question about binary blobs answered? (just skimming last half hour...) |
