| 00:00.02 | dduardo | In the cellular business everything is divided to get the most money out of the customers |
| 00:00.13 | dduardo | Everything is extra |
| 00:00.23 | bhima | You can do IM over GPRS for the same rates as other GPRS. |
| 00:00.39 | bhima | You can do VoIP over GPRS for the same rate as any other data service. |
| 00:01.05 | bhima | How do you compare minutes of voice vs. megabytes of data? |
| 00:01.30 | koen | you don't, it's a different medium |
| 00:01.43 | koen | which shoots down the net neutrality argument |
| 00:01.57 | koen | people don't notice since it's all done from the same phone |
| 00:02.08 | dduardo | So why don't they kill the voice plan and leave GPRS? |
| 00:02.17 | koen | latency |
| 00:02.29 | koen | and QOS type of stuff |
| 00:03.11 | bhima | efficiency is an issue as well. fixed allocation is probably more efficienct. |
| 00:03.17 | koen | and the average cell tower can handle ~100 consecutive calls, but only 5 gprs channels |
| 00:04.52 | thedaniel | yeah, people have to stop trying to equate the cell networks with normal IP networks |
| 00:04.58 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 00:04.59 | koen | drat |
| 00:05.10 | koen | I just realised I'll be on gprs for the next week |
| 00:05.21 | bhima | EDGE, at least? |
| 00:05.36 | koen | and the small bandwidth I'll have will be wasted getting "OMG WIFI!!!" emails |
| 00:05.41 | koen | bhima: right, EDGE |
| 00:05.54 | bhima | OMG WIFI? |
| 00:06.07 | koen | the last ~100 emails to the list |
| 00:06.13 | LaF0rge | oh my goodness. |
| 00:06.38 | koen | or "FIC is teh ev1l for not including w1f1" |
| 00:06.40 | LaF0rge | looks like cache corruption. |
| 00:06.51 | stefan_schmidt | ouch |
| 00:07.02 | koen | LaF0rge: there was a thread about cache corruption on L-A-K |
| 00:07.31 | LaF0rge | the instruction in memory (read via jtag) is correct. when executed in jtag single step, it jumps at a different location than the jump is targetted! |
| 00:07.37 | bhima | "Why does nobody realize that I am right, and I know what the killer app is?" |
| 00:07.44 | bhima | Perhaps because it's not the killer app you think it is? |
| 00:08.01 | koen | LaF0rge: ah, that looks different from http://rpsys.net/openzaurus/patches/xscale_cache_workaround-r1.patch |
| 00:09.00 | LaF0rge | koen: we don't have xscale |
| 00:09.12 | stefan_schmidt | hmm, that sounds odd |
| 00:09.22 | koen | LaF0rge: it affect more than xscale |
| 00:09.57 | LaF0rge | mh. |
| 00:10.00 | koen | http://rpsys.net/openzaurus/patches/archive/xscale_cache_workaround-r0.patch only has xscale, but RMK said it affected more SoCs |
| 00:10.50 | meyerm_ | koen: Shall I start another thread whining for EDGE? *eg* The WiFi one is getting boring ;-) |
| 00:11.05 | cbpage | lol |
| 00:11.25 | koen | meyerm_: and after that for WCDMA and after that for HSDPA |
| 00:11.36 | cbpage | and then us-frequency hsdpa |
| 00:12.04 | dduardo | $20 bucks for 5MB at cingular. Yuck |
| 00:12.04 | bhima | You cang et unlimited for $20 at cingular. |
| 00:12.04 | meyerm_ | koen: Yeah, but be more slow! Let's enjoy each one after another :D |
| 00:12.07 | dduardo | unlimited is $45 |
| 00:12.28 | bhima | unlimited laptop, or unlimited phone? |
| 00:12.53 | dduardo | PDA |
| 00:13.07 | dduardo | laptop unlimited is $80 |
| 00:13.41 | bhima | Smartphone unlimited is $19.99 |
| 00:13.43 | cbpage | how do they know the difference? |
| 00:13.59 | bhima | I don't know. |
| 00:14.04 | bhima | I think they bitch at you if you use a lot. |
| 00:14.29 | koen | $0.0002/MB |
| 00:14.37 | dduardo | $ or cents? |
| 00:14.44 | bhima | I heard a great phone call with verizon on that issue. :) |
| 00:15.04 | dduardo | I did too. From Digg |
| 00:15.19 | TiredMac | good n8 all |
| 00:21.56 | dduardo | If the neo isn't going to have wifi, it should atleast have an RJ45 port. That way I can drag around an ethernet cable where ever I go and make free voip calls. |
| 00:22.07 | dduardo | RJ45 for the Neo! |
| 00:22.28 | dduardo | Or maybe an optical port |
| 00:22.55 | dduardo | AC3 paththrough |
| 00:22.57 | bhima | Yeah, wired ethernet would be so great on a cellphone! :) |
| 00:23.20 | dduardo | It would be the ultimate portable audio player |
| 00:23.34 | dduardo | I would just need to carry around my 5.1 surround sound speakers |
| 00:24.33 | bhima | You can get surround sound headphones. :) |
| 00:25.09 | dduardo | I'll be on a train, pull out my Neo, a audio receiver and a 5.1 speaker set and start blasting the music. |
| 00:25.13 | Ycros | surround sound headphones generally sound crap |
| 00:25.18 | dduardo | That's what I call portability |
| 00:25.32 | dduardo | Beat that Mr. Jobs |
| 00:25.34 | Ycros | virtualisation with good headphones is often better |
| 00:26.01 | ozamosi | dduardo: bah... I want a 3.5 inch plug in my head. speakers are crap :P |
| 00:26.41 | bhima | Why does this speech synthesis system seem to have more than one person's voice recorded? |
| 00:26.54 | dduardo | How about an accelerometer inside the Neo. Instead of punching in numbers, you write the number in the air |
| 00:27.28 | Agrajag- | haha |
| 00:27.35 | dduardo | Or you shake the device to shuffle the songs |
| 00:27.47 | Agrajag- | people already look silly enough talking into a little thing they hold up to their ear |
| 00:27.54 | koen | dduardo: it has bluetooth, so you can use a wii-mote for that :) |
| 00:28.15 | bhima | koen: ooh, great idea! |
| 00:28.17 | dduardo | Yeah, I would like to see Wii Sports Tennis ported to the Neo |
| 00:28.53 | koen | bhima: saves a 'F': "OMG WII" ;) |
| 00:29.45 | dduardo | Now cellular users can be more obnoxious then ever. Not only do they talk really loud, but they are swing the phone all over the place. |
| 00:30.39 | dduardo | Time to create a mini sensor bar for the Neo. |
| 00:30.59 | dduardo | Or maybe it should be built in! |
| 00:31.20 | bhima | The accelerometers are separate from the sensor bar. |
| 00:31.48 | dduardo | I know |
| 00:32.54 | dduardo | All this talk is silly though. What really after is a voice modulator. |
| 00:33.18 | bhima | What I"m really after is dinner. |
| 00:34.23 | dduardo | Every criminal will want the Neo if it had a voice mdoulator |
| 00:34.47 | bhima | Criminals care that much about voice modulators? |
| 00:35.13 | bhima | Then why don't I see inline handfree kit ones all over the place? |
| 00:35.19 | dduardo | "I've got your kid, drop off the suitcase of money behind the dumpster" |
| 00:35.46 | koen | of course they want the neo |
| 00:36.01 | koen | "drop it of at ehm... 52,4343N 8.4343E" |
| 00:36.04 | dduardo | That would be a great prank for family members too |
| 00:37.00 | dduardo | Is AGPS free or do you need to play a usage fee for that too? |
| 00:37.15 | koen | it is said to be free |
| 00:37.26 | spikebik1 | it is? |
| 00:37.45 | spikebik1 | seems silly to worry about it, you can just run it in gps mode |
| 00:37.48 | koen | free as in beer, not speech |
| 00:38.13 | dduardo | I want everything to be free as in beer. That's one of the reasons for wanting wifi |
| 00:39.42 | Psi | maybe you should climb up a nearby sky scraper and attach a 100W blue tooth AP :P |
| 00:39.44 | Psi | hehe |
| 00:41.53 | dduardo | How exactly is the Neo being marketed? It seems as if it would appeal to a very small segment of the cell community at this point. |
| 00:43.36 | dduardo | what would make this phone appeal to the ordinary joe? |
| 00:44.35 | dduardo | Perhaps a cheese grater at the end of the Neo? |
| 00:44.35 | Psi | heh |
| 00:44.51 | lamby | dduardo: sim-free, lots of neat apps will be available, good karma ^_^ |
| 00:45.27 | dduardo | Maybe a super powered vibrator for personal massage |
| 00:45.52 | Psi | hehe, does the phone have a vibrator? anyone know |
| 00:45.53 | ozamosi | dduardo: if the open source community buys into the platform, it will be quite good, i think. |
| 00:46.41 | dduardo | Technically yes it will be quite good. |
| 00:47.39 | dduardo | Just like Linux |
| 00:47.39 | ozamosi | I don't think it should be marketed to "normal" users at all in the begining. Not untill the geeks have been playing with it for a while, to make neat stuff possible. |
| 00:47.39 | dduardo | But it doesn't make the device look nice. Linux is quite ugly if you ask me |
| 00:47.39 | Psi | i agree |
| 00:47.40 | lamby | quite a few people who i've spoken to have said "I will get it when it gets X" (where X is invariably Wifi).. but this is quite dangerous as they aren't going to produce another one if nobody buys the first! |
| 00:47.40 | dduardo | Even though I use it everyday |
| 00:48.42 | ozamosi | dduardo: gnome was HORRIBLE a year or two ago, but it's MUCH nicer nowadays. Quite soon, it will rock hard. |
| 00:48.44 | dduardo | yes, there is definitely a fine line between features |
| 00:49.25 | dduardo | and what is feasible for a first gen device |
| 00:49.56 | dduardo | ozamosi, i'm quite the minimilist. I use fvwm |
| 00:50.07 | ozamosi | dduardo: that's why it's ugly ;) |
| 00:50.25 | ozamosi | (yes, I've used fvwm a year or so - I know what it can do) |
| 00:51.15 | dduardo | actually want I'm talking more about is application UI design |
| 00:51.37 | ozamosi | Well, what applications? Gnome ones? |
| 00:51.38 | dduardo | I could care less about the window manager, that's why I opt for minimal |
| 00:52.01 | dduardo | gnome, kde, they all stink |
| 00:52.19 | ozamosi | I have to disagre... |
| 00:52.55 | ozamosi | But I doubt I'll be able to prove that you are wrong, though :) |
| 00:53.05 | dduardo | who came up with the vertical tabs in kde? |
| 00:53.14 | dduardo | they are difficult to read |
| 00:54.24 | dduardo | There is also a lack of continuity between GTK and QT apps |
| 00:54.49 | dduardo | uniformity* |
| 00:55.09 | ozamosi | Well, KDE is all about giving the user the ability to make any choices they want - I'm sure someone likes vertical tabs :) |
| 00:56.33 | ozamosi | Under KDE, you can choose a GTK theme that renders the widgets through Qt, and then you'll not be able to visually see any difference. That still won't make the menues consistent, of course. |
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| 00:57.58 | dduardo | Yeah, its the little things the prevent Linux from really taking off in the desktop market. |
| 00:58.55 | dduardo | Personally though, I prefer GTK. I don't think I have a single QT app installed |
| 00:59.17 | dduardo | I find QT apps to be very fragile |
| 00:59.27 | dduardo | Perhaps it's all the kde dependency |
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| 01:31.45 | Zer0Her0 | sooo i think i'll beat a dead horse... |
| 01:31.48 | Zer0Her0 | is it friday yet? |
| 01:33.51 | rwhitby | has been here, for over 12 hours. |
| 01:34.24 | rwhitby | but Friday doesn't finish until 23:59, hawaiian time. |
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| 01:39.52 | thedaniel | Zer0Her0: it's like 10am in taiwan |
| 01:39.56 | thedaniel | let their morning coffee kick in |
| 01:40.09 | thedaniel | maybe go install the OE toolchain |
| 01:40.14 | thedaniel | fly a kite |
| 01:40.17 | thedaniel | have some sandwiches and tea |
| 01:41.34 | Zer0Her0 | :-D |
| 01:43.22 | thedaniel | or that yeah |
| 01:50.43 | spikebik1 | so what timezone is the friday announcement in? ;-) |
| 01:52.17 | xkr47 | latest possible ;) |
| 01:54.41 | xkr47 | hehe, when you order a neo, do you give your address in gps coordinates ?-D |
| 01:54.47 | xkr47 | "can't go wrong" |
| 01:57.21 | ozamosi | I know of people who have to do that to get deliveries... |
| 01:57.36 | xkr47 | :DD |
| 02:00.30 | xkr47 | now we can all be pizza delivery boys when we get our neo :) |
| 02:01.12 | xkr47 | "Pizza delivery for U R Thesuck!" |
| 02:02.40 | thedaniel | ha, i thought of Hiro Protagonist |
| 02:02.43 | thedaniel | the deliverator |
| 02:03.05 | Zer0Her0 | yea Hiro |
| 02:03.12 | xkr47 | :) |
| 02:06.36 | Zer0Her0 | i need to re-read snow crash now |
| 02:09.15 | thedaniel | does anyone in this chan know much about OSS gps applications? |
| 02:09.40 | thedaniel | a quick google makes me think qpegps.sourceforge.net would work |
| 02:10.02 | xkr47 | sounds nice |
| 02:10.31 | xkr47 | I wonder if the userspace gps software of neo supports some common GPS api |
| 02:11.30 | thedaniel | NMEA i would home |
| 02:11.33 | thedaniel | *hope |
| 02:11.53 | thedaniel | i am pretty sure most OSS gps apps are made to work by getting NMEA data over serial |
| 02:11.56 | thedaniel | http://home.wi.rr.com/n9uur/nmea.html |
| 02:12.01 | xkr47 | it would be nice if people updated the unofficial wiki with nice stuff that could be tried on neo |
| 02:12.04 | xkr47 | :) |
| 02:12.16 | thedaniel | what is the unofficial wiki? |
| 02:12.49 | xkr47 | a sec |
| 02:13.18 | xkr47 | http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ |
| 02:14.25 | Agrajag- | thedaniel: i've used gpsman with my garmin gps. it does everything i want. has a sucky interface though |
| 02:17.04 | thedaniel | man this is the worst wiki i have ever seen |
| 02:17.09 | thedaniel | wtf is this page |
| 02:17.09 | thedaniel | http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Ideas?highlight=%28OpenMoko%2FIdeas%29 |
| 02:17.13 | thedaniel | i mean, i know wtf it is |
| 02:17.21 | thedaniel | but that's not so useful |
| 02:17.52 | xkr47 | well |
| 02:19.15 | alphaone | I would really like to see an OS route planner with GPS support |
| 02:19.45 | alphaone | But the maps are the problem (at least in germany) |
| 02:19.56 | xkr47 | I don't have a car so I'll be integrating it with our local public transportation route planner |
| 02:20.30 | alphaone | That's nice, too |
| 02:20.55 | xkr47 | you can choose from a map where you are currently so they use map coordinates.. I just need to go to 4 corners of that map and then convert coordinates :) |
| 02:21.17 | xkr47 | or maybe some few places is enough |
| 02:21.36 | alphaone | :-) |
| 02:30.00 | LittleIdiot | uhm, i've posted a new idea... but accidently not as a subpage (http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/DataLinkViaGsmVoiceConnection) |
| 02:30.14 | Agrajag- | it'd be hard getting street lat/lon data though |
| 02:32.51 | xkr47 | LittleIdiot, well it ended up on the Ideas page list still |
| 02:33.37 | LittleIdiot | because i added @page@, but i can't change its name once it's created |
| 02:33.54 | xkr47 | I think it's fine :) |
| 02:37.12 | LittleIdiot | does the hardware platform used have some unused ports i may use for bitbanging with a microcontroller? ;) |
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| 04:06.08 | cld2 | sorry to ask a stupid question but is this phone really going to see the light of day? if so I cant wait! |
| 04:11.48 | xkr47 | cld2, an announcement is expected about the timetable any day now |
| 04:12.12 | xkr47 | but currently the latest official information is february |
| 04:12.21 | cld2 | xkr47: thanks. and that would be when the first development phones come out? |
| 04:12.36 | cld2 | or phones for consumers? |
| 04:12.51 | xkr47 | I think development phones were out to selected people already last year |
| 04:12.58 | xkr47 | I understand this is for consumers |
| 04:13.11 | xkr47 | or well |
| 04:13.21 | xkr47 | I consider myself a consumer since I'm not a part of the project |
| 04:13.23 | cld2 | and is there any word on what the phone will ship with, a phone app I assume and a contacts manager? other then that an empty place to put what you like? |
| 04:13.33 | xkr47 | but I sure do consider myself an inofficial developer also :D |
| 04:14.19 | xkr47 | cld2, that's been listed in many places but I can't recall now.. there will be a set of standard applications |
| 04:15.02 | rwhitby | xkr47: there are no development phones out as far as I know, other than to OpenMoko staff. |
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| 04:15.13 | cld2 | yeah, Id like to give a crack at it. I was going to get a symbian nokia but I started seeing news about openmoko and figured I should wait and see. id prefer and OSS phone much more. |
| 04:15.33 | xkr47 | rwhitby, well that.. |
| 04:15.41 | cld2 | does openmoko have any ties to fic other then using there hardware? is openmoko a project within fic? |
| 04:15.56 | rwhitby | xkr47: ? |
| 04:16.30 | xkr47 | "Push email, contacts, and calendar synchronization" it says here: http://openmoko.com/files/OpenMoko_20061107.txt |
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| 04:16.40 | rwhitby | xkr47: I was told that there would be more info about developer access in the announcement today. |
| 04:17.05 | xkr47 | rwhitby, ok.. wonder what qualifications they require |
| 04:17.21 | rwhitby | xkr47: send them an email and ask. that's what I did :-) |
| 04:17.29 | xkr47 | did you get a response yet ?-D |
| 04:17.45 | rwhitby | yes, immediately (this was a couple of months ago) |
| 04:17.51 | rwhitby | (I lead the nslu2-linux project) |
| 04:17.59 | xkr47 | and the verdict was .. ?-) |
| 04:18.30 | rwhitby | I'm not sure I'm at liberty to discuss private communications ... but I was not disappointed with the response. |
| 04:18.33 | xkr47 | ok |
| 04:20.04 | xkr47 | "If you are interested in developing Free Software applications for the OpenMoko platform, please send information regarding embedded Linux projects you have contributed to, and the work you have done to coreteam@openmoko.org." |
| 04:20.16 | rwhitby | yep, that's the one. |
| 04:20.38 | xkr47 | well.. I haven't done any development for embedded devices :/ |
| 04:21.52 | rwhitby | Contributing as a developer to the OpenEmbedded project would be my advice on how to get a foot in the door :-) |
| 04:22.13 | xkr47 | heh |
| 04:22.49 | xkr47 | "and suddenly in january 2007, all the bugs in openembedded were suddenly fixed" |
| 04:23.16 | xkr47 | btw tell me about your nslu2 project |
| 04:24.42 | xkr47 | looks you've got green light from linksys :) |
| 04:24.45 | xkr47 | nice nice |
| 04:29.29 | rwhitby | xkr47: www.nslu2-linux.org/presentation.pdf gives a good background. |
| 04:30.15 | xkr47 | wonder if the device comes with any cables |
| 04:30.41 | xkr47 | maybe I have to start with a mini-a - a converter |
| 04:32.00 | caleb- | xkr47: try trisoft |
| 04:32.32 | xkr47 | I did.. maybe I didn't understand german enough :P |
| 04:33.02 | caleb- | xkr47: They have English pages |
| 04:33.20 | xkr47 | yes but.. I only find usb-a to usb-mini-a |
| 04:34.31 | caleb- | xkr47: Some Zaurus users made their own cable...:-P |
| 04:34.38 | xkr47 | yeah |
| 04:40.14 | xkr47 | which means it will probably work with cameras etc that supposedly don't need power by themselves to run (they have batteries themselves), merely to detect the connection |
| 04:40.52 | cld2 | rwhitby: are you going to scale this year? |
| 04:53.15 | rwhitby | cld2: I'm not personally, but nslu2-linux has a booth. |
| 04:53.40 | cld2 | cool, Ill check it out. |
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| 05:04.26 | xkr47 | rwhitby, nice intro (the pdf) |
| 05:04.54 | rwhitby | xkr47: thx |
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| 05:08.09 | xkr47 | I hope openmoko one day will be as big as your nslu2 project :) |
| 05:10.29 | rwhitby | xkr47: I expect that it will. |
| 05:12.19 | aloril | hmm.. screen size limits multitouch to 2 fingers (in landscape orientation maybe 3), so no 5 finger gestures even if it supported multitouch |
| 05:16.29 | aloril | ah, that requires wizardly training (literally ;-) |
| 05:16.37 | xkr47 | :) |
| 05:16.43 | aloril | I think most limiting factor is brain |
| 05:18.35 | aloril | dunno though, there might be some 'common' firing, but it might be just training issue too, I don't know |
| 05:19.55 | aloril | for example bending little finger and middle finger *only* doesn't seem so easy |
| 05:21.07 | aloril | simple example: reportedly morse record is 35wpm (mentioned in this channel, didn't google) |
| 05:21.24 | aloril | so.. 5 fingers * 35 = 175 wpm ;-) |
| 05:21.33 | xkr47 | loool |
| 05:21.53 | xkr47 | maybe you need some sleep ;) |
| 05:22.26 | aloril | but in practice I don't think you can really move those that fast without having effect on each other :-( |
| 05:24.20 | ozamosi | we had a lecture about stylus inputs in school. |
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| 05:24.32 | aloril | when looking at multitouch demos I think yeah, zoom, etc.. it does look cool, but this is just "most obvious things beginning" |
| 05:25.04 | aloril | I just hope that more advanced "casting spells" stuff is not invented by somebody who patents and closes them |
| 05:25.23 | xkr47 | go on, make some prior art already :) |
| 05:26.00 | ozamosi | He had some kind of system that would look at the shapes of what you were writing, instead of the actual letters you hit. I think something like that would be more usefull than using 5 fingers on a tiny, tiny screen |
| 05:26.15 | aloril | ozamosi: definitely |
| 05:26.46 | aloril | ozamosi: yes, 5 fingers not feasible on this size, so need to be content with 2 (or at most 3 fingers) |
| 05:27.08 | aloril | but... looking at 2-3 (5) shapes would be even better |
| 05:28.02 | ozamosi | Well, the shapes comes from not lifting your fingers. I'm not sure how you're meaning, but it sounds more like typing |
| 05:28.03 | aloril | xkr47: one that I think most is to research how to make gestures with several fingers at same time so that you could input faster than just with 1 finger gestures |
| 05:28.26 | aloril | ozamosi: I do mean not lifting fingers and moving several at same time |
| 05:28.49 | ozamosi | Ah, ok. |
| 05:29.12 | aloril | imagine something like this (lets assume enough big screen for now for 5 fingers): |
| 05:29.18 | ozamosi | I just don't understand how you're going to see the screen, but I suppose that will sort itself out :) |
| 05:29.45 | xkr47 | don't see the screen, know the screen :) |
| 05:29.48 | ozamosi | anyway: I would rather use Dasher, since it's so damn fun! :D |
| 05:30.45 | aloril | fingers are moving on screen most of time making gestures and that involves of course frequent short 'untap' between gestures |
| 05:31.12 | aloril | ie.. fingers are lifted from screen only for short time, a bit opposite of typing where fingers tap shortly key |
| 05:31.31 | aloril | well.. you really need to see 1 line of text ;-) |
| 05:32.06 | aloril | ie.. weaving spell on screen might be good 'image' |
| 05:34.54 | CM | Does anyone have a clue how to lock/unlock the touchscreen for input? |
| 05:34.55 | aloril | usb multitouch screen!? |
| 05:35.17 | aloril | CM: make certain gesture to unlock? |
| 05:35.20 | CM | Is that what the only button is for? |
| 05:35.29 | aloril | (and for record I had this idea before seeing iPhone) |
| 05:35.30 | CM | aloril: And same to lock? |
| 05:35.42 | aloril | CM: same of different gesture |
| 05:35.48 | aloril | s/of/or/ |
| 05:36.44 | CM | rwhitby: Nice presentation :) |
| 05:36.49 | ozamosi | http://www.ida.liu.se/~perkr/publications.html Found the guy doing the pattern-thingy (there are videos) |
| 05:37.21 | rwhitby | CM: thx |
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| 05:39.24 | CM | rwhitby: Just a small thing, the last two 2004 in the timeline should probably be 2005. (Not complaining, just way too used to proof reading thesises and such) |
| 05:40.54 | xkr47 | :) |
| 05:41.41 | CM | xkr47: I guess maybe we'll have to download the devkit and get something together in the emulator |
| 05:41.45 | CM | :) |
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| 05:42.10 | xkr47 | CM, you mean openembedded ? |
| 05:42.47 | *** part/#openmoko cld2 (n=cliff@cpe-76-171-131-190.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 05:43.00 | CM | No, I meant the OpenMoko kit. I mean if I don't get a phone right away it would still be fun to play with the toolkit |
| 05:43.03 | aloril | here is one maybe unpractical idea: one finger types stuff, second finger search/cut/paste/move/etc... |
| 05:43.10 | aloril | a bit like vim 2 modes at same time |
| 05:43.13 | *** join/#openmoko PirateHead (n=piratehe@ACA6FC25.ipt.aol.com) |
| 05:43.54 | rwhitby | CM: thx - error fixed. |
| 05:44.10 | WillySilly | PirateHead: no, it'll only run vi :P |
| 05:44.16 | aloril | umm.. emacs runs on 486 ... and neo1973 is quite amount more powerful ;-) |
| 05:44.38 | rwhitby | PirateHead: no reason why not. Emacs runs fine on the nslu2, and the neo has more processing power than that. |
| 05:44.39 | CM | rwhitby: NP. But now you've made me want to buy a NSLU2... |
| 05:44.50 | rwhitby | CM: it's the perfect companion to a neo |
| 05:44.59 | PirateHead | Just getting emacs working will provide a ton of functionality, then. |
| 05:45.02 | CM | With a bluetooth plug |
| 05:45.04 | CM | ? |
| 05:45.10 | PirateHead | Provided there's a good text input system. |
| 05:45.12 | aloril | http://www.strout.net/info/ideas/hexinput.html look pretty nice for 1 finger input |
| 05:45.21 | rwhitby | CM: yep |
| 05:45.25 | CM | :) |
| 05:45.26 | PirateHead | I wonder whether hexinput will work well without a stylus. |
| 05:45.39 | rwhitby | as I said on the ml, I use it that way with the Treo 650 every day. |
| 05:45.45 | PirateHead | Anybody know for sure whether the Neo1973 will support stylus use? |
| 05:46.19 | CM | PirateHead: It's a stylus to it |
| 05:46.32 | PirateHead | CM: what's a stylus to what? |
| 05:46.58 | CM | I mean the Neo has a one of those plastic pens :) |
| 05:47.08 | PirateHead | It comes with one? |
| 05:47.18 | CM | That's what Laf0rge said a few days ago |
| 05:47.28 | PirateHead | That's good news. |
| 05:47.47 | PirateHead | I bet the hacker's lunchbox reads your mind. |
| 05:47.55 | PirateHead | But only if you think in bash script. |
| 05:48.35 | PirateHead | But then it'll wig out every time I think "wget -r pr0nz" |
| 05:49.00 | ozamosi | aloril: *slow thinker* sudently, i start thinking of datahand keyboards ( http://www.datahand.com/ ), and of whether a similar technique could be adopted for something like this (think one hand dvorak for instance) |
| 05:49.26 | *** part/#openmoko elcasey (n=ch@33.111.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 05:50.00 | PirateHead | I need to do some math out loud. |
| 05:50.13 | PirateHead | 26 letters, plus a few common keys for chat input |
| 05:50.35 | PirateHead | space, return, shift, backspace, smily face, frowny face |
| 05:50.45 | PirateHead | 6 extra characters. any big ones I missed, for IMing? |
| 05:51.00 | PirateHead | Total of 36 characters |
| 05:51.07 | ozamosi | PirateHead: å, ä, ö. I can't live without those three :P |
| 05:51.14 | ozamosi | Period, comma |
| 05:51.32 | PirateHead | That's true. Apostrophe and quotes, also |
| 05:51.35 | PirateHead | so we're up to 40 |
| 05:51.39 | ozamosi | dash |
| 05:51.42 | CM | What about / and ~? |
| 05:52.16 | PirateHead | \/`~-_=+[{]}\|<> |
| 05:52.19 | PirateHead | can all sort of be forgotten |
| 05:52.27 | ozamosi | But by including a alt gr, we could put all the weird characters on the alphanumeric characters |
| 05:52.38 | ozamosi | right! Numbers! |
| 05:52.41 | PirateHead | @ is important, so is !, |
| 05:52.50 | PirateHead | and numbers 0-9 |
| 05:52.51 | aloril | ozamosi: seems similar idea to twiddler2 |
| 05:52.53 | PirateHead | now we're up to 62 |
| 05:52.56 | PirateHead | I mean 52 |
| 05:53.28 | CM | Hehe.. |
| 05:53.29 | aloril | ozamosi: uups. actually different idea |
| 05:55.04 | PirateHead | a-z, 0-9, shift, space, backspace, return, period, comma, apostrophe, quote, exclamation, at-symbol, smily face, frowny face |
| 05:55.12 | PirateHead | comes pretty close to what i use during most IMing |
| 05:55.43 | CM | shift + 0-9 is ten of those not alpha numeric.. |
| 05:55.54 | PirateHead | that's true |
| 05:56.55 | PirateHead | So here's what I'm thinking |
| 05:57.18 | ozamosi | Cool! A swede! |
| 05:57.23 | PirateHead | a one-handed keyboard, where you essentially tap up to 3 "keys" at a time to output an ASCII code |
| 05:57.28 | PirateHead | that corresponds to the character that you want to enter |
| 05:57.35 | PirateHead | so then each tap-set represents one keystroke |
| 05:57.58 | ozamosi | PirateHead: that sounds either like a cell phone, or like twiddler2 |
| 05:58.15 | PirateHead | It's like the twiddler2, but much less stupid. |
| 05:58.32 | PirateHead | I'm gonna have to put a prototype together and start messing. |
| 05:58.54 | PirateHead | The exercise will be to see if I can get IMing working using only the keys qwer and asdf |
| 05:59.09 | aloril | middle finger -> text input, index finger -> mode (like in vim, etc..: search/move/cut/paste/etc...), thumb -> additional modifier |
| 05:59.40 | aloril | gestures allowed for all, but probably more limited for index finger and even more limited for thumb |
| 05:59.58 | aloril | and I think neo1973 screen is enough big for this |
| 06:00.38 | PirateHead | aloril: which scheme are you talking about? |
| 06:00.52 | aloril | hexinput like for middle finger |
| 06:01.05 | aloril | something similar but more limited for mode selection for index finger |
| 06:01.18 | PirateHead | I wonder whether the surface area of the finger is too big to have small enough hex squares |
| 06:01.40 | PirateHead | you'd have to put some really smart filtering in place to keep from hitting random adjacent hexagons |
| 06:02.34 | aloril | PirateHead: I'm going to credit you for coming up with term "casting spell" for multigesture stuff ;-) |
| 06:02.37 | CM | Probably using the edge of your nail |
| 06:02.40 | CM | if you have that long.. |
| 06:02.47 | CM | Or just the stylus |
| 06:03.04 | aloril | yeah.. having actual multitouch screen would allow some testing what is actually possible |
| 06:04.21 | aloril | 2007-01-10 08:29:32 <aloril> hmm.. 3D multi gesture ... |
| 06:04.21 | aloril | 2007-01-10 08:29:47 <aloril> 2 high resolution cameras and .. ;-) |
| 06:04.21 | aloril | 2007-01-10 08:30:16 <PirateHead> and then suddenly using your cellphone looks like casting spells in old fantasy fic flicks |
| 06:04.58 | aloril | that is ultimate: phone is in pocket, hmd and 3D gestures (aka casting spells) |
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| 06:06.12 | PirateHead | quite a vision for the future |
| 06:06.16 | PirateHead | all I know is, my arms would get tired |
| 06:06.41 | aloril | yeah, maybe better just keep arms down and just move fingers |
| 06:08.47 | PirateHead | pretty soon, there will be a list of cell phone commands |
| 06:08.58 | ozamosi | Oh! How about a 3d projection of the monitor in front of you? :) |
| 06:08.58 | PirateHead | it'll look like |
| 06:09.05 | PirateHead | Open Contact List |
| 06:09.06 | ozamosi | s/monitor/screen/ |
| 06:09.08 | PirateHead | Conjuration |
| 06:09.11 | PirateHead | Components: V, S |
| 06:09.29 | PirateHead | You use gestures to open a mystical list of all the people you know. |
| 06:09.41 | PirateHead | The NSA gets to make a search check on your phone. |
| 06:11.16 | ozamosi | "I don't have it on me - it's at my house. My hands are communicating with it over VLAN" |
| 06:11.59 | PirateHead | hah. |
| 06:12.04 | aloril | http://www.tengo.net/ has nice claims |
| 06:21.47 | aloril | (and I recall seeing some reviews of it too) |
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| 07:26.40 | aloril | hmm.. for full spell casting should not only be multitouch, but also sensitive to how hard you press |
| 07:34.37 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:36.42 | xkr47 | I've been coding for palm .. but otoh they (openmoko) wanted embedded linux experience |
| 07:36.47 | xkr47 | but maybe it will do |
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| 07:44.40 | rwhitby | xkr47: the worst they can say is no :-) |
| 07:44.53 | xkr47 | :P |
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| 08:26.33 | CM | Only embedded stuff I've done is vhdl on atmels, and j2me on phones.. |
| 08:27.40 | CM | And I surely wouldn't call j2me embedded ;) |
| 08:27.41 | Elephantman | hello :) |
| 08:27.46 | CM | Morning |
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| 08:36.15 | Fletch | any details about the time when the roadmap will be announced? |
| 08:36.47 | CM | I hope soon, since Taiwan is gmt+8 |
| 08:37.27 | aloril | still > 6 hours left of Friday there |
| 08:39.12 | xkr47 | :D |
| 08:39.25 | xkr47 | never has this channel been so timezone-aware before :) |
| 08:40.58 | CM | I get annoyed when people call from another time-zone and has no clue it's 5 in the morning where I am. It's not that hard to calculate.. |
| 08:41.19 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 08:44.49 | xkr47 | :) |
| 08:46.03 | xkr47 | CM, so you get a moko and implement http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ideas/Profiles?highlight=%28OpenMoko%2FIdeas%29 :) |
| 08:46.44 | CM | xkr47: Great ideas :) |
| 08:51.22 | yacc | http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ideas/Profiles <-- added an idea about dealing with timezones. |
| 08:51.50 | CM | aloril: Add your input ideas there too maybe? |
| 08:53.44 | yacc | Just wondering, will the basic framework support voice mail applications on the phone? |
| 08:53.51 | aloril | CM: yeah should do that and also write that mail about various ideas I have too |
| 08:55.00 | CM | I should too, but unfortunally I'm a master procrastinator |
| 08:55.40 | aloril | I assume you can have device like this (who knows, maybe lunch box already includes it): |
| 08:56.14 | aloril | 2 AA's (better energy&price/size ratio than AAA) |
| 08:56.23 | aloril | 4 USB ports |
| 08:56.46 | aloril | and power from AA to 4 USB ports and also for Neo1973 for charging it |
| 08:57.16 | aloril | just get enough rechargeable AA batteries and you can use Neo1973 as long as you want and have wifi+camera+etc.. |
| 08:57.58 | xkr47 | yacc, lol @ timezone thing |
| 08:58.23 | yacc | xkr47: Why lol? |
| 08:58.53 | yacc | xkr47: nothing funnier than getting woken up at 4AM, because somebody calls to ask the office hours? (lived that through) |
| 08:59.37 | yacc | aloril: And naturally you carry half-an-office worth of cables with you :( |
| 08:59.42 | xkr47 | CM, http://up.kupatrix.com/f/8/Motivational_Poster_Collection/Procrastination.png |
| 09:00.14 | CM | xkr47: Hehe.. Brillian. I'll put that up here on my desk |
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| 09:00.51 | aloril | yacc: wifi stick: no cables, neo <-> hub: cable, camera: cable, so yeah 2 cables needed |
| 09:02.38 | yacc | aloril: :) what we've learned from the last days of feeding trolls on the list is that requirements and acceptable limitations are a very personal thing. E.g. I do know that cables are nothing for me => I've noticed that my usage of headset has gone way up when I've got a BT one. |
| 09:03.40 | aloril | yacc: yeah, don't need to have those 2 cables all the time connected |
| 09:04.56 | aloril | I hope there is enough so that it doesn't sell out in < 24h |
| 09:05.35 | xkr47 | :) |
| 09:05.37 | xkr47 | yeah |
| 09:06.10 | xkr47 | "all neo1973 phones sold in march were equipped with openmoko due to huge demand - china windows buyers will have to wait another month" |
| 09:06.49 | aloril | haha |
| 09:07.26 | *** part/#openmoko kazsaa (i=kazsaa@wss.hu) |
| 09:12.35 | xkr47 | yacc, I read your timezone thing again and I must have skipped a bit too much the first time.. so you mean it would tell the caller what the time currently is in your timezone if he's too far away ? |
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| 09:13.51 | yacc | xkr47: Well, that can be hard to implement (good TTS is not easy to come by), but it would be ok if it would just play back a recorded message that the user recorded before. |
| 09:14.04 | xkr47 | "vqjojv.. morning, Jeff here.. why do you call me at this hour.. it's 'four' 'thirty' 'three' in the morning! good night to you! <click>" |
| 09:14.44 | yacc | Basically, when I'm home in Austria, and somebody calls from the US, it should tell them "watch out the timezone, hangup in the next 15seconds to avoid waking yacc up." |
| 09:14.45 | xkr47 | "click 1 to wake me up anyway" |
| 09:15.00 | yacc | xkr47: yeah something like that. |
| 09:15.03 | xkr47 | you could ahve a countdown :) |
| 09:15.58 | yacc | xkr47: the technical implementation might depend strongly upon what is possible, BUT the idea is to classify incoming caller ids by timezone/country. |
| 09:16.51 | xkr47 | is there some online db mapping prefixes to countries ? |
| 09:17.00 | *** join/#openmoko ColdFyre (n=coldfyre@67.170.237.92) |
| 09:17.10 | xkr47 | or better yet, longitudes and latitudes :) |
| 09:17.20 | XorA | caller ID for foreign networks doesnt work in the uk :-( |
| 09:17.40 | yacc | And to give callers from far away the possibility of back off from their call. |
| 09:17.40 | ColdFyre | hi |
| 09:17.40 | yacc | XorA: it works herearound. |
| 09:17.57 | aloril | or: 1 to leave message, 2 to wake up |
| 09:18.10 | yacc | XorA: That's something we need to take into account => different countries, different networks => different rules apply. |
| 09:18.46 | xkr47 | well.. I mean .. prefixes are listed somewhere |
| 09:18.55 | xkr47 | so it can be hardcoded |
| 09:19.48 | xkr47 | and if the prefix spans many timezones, you might want to find out the worst-case difference and use that as base :) |
| 09:20.23 | Sencer | does anybody remember the sony z5? it used to have a built-in answering machine |
| 09:21.48 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 09:22.04 | XorA | you can use there address in your address book to narrow down the timezone, if != addressboook then guess else use real address |
| 09:22.04 | Paladine | http://pong.no/~opyrt/Terrible-F1-accident.jpg |
| 09:22.30 | yacc | xkr47: yes, or the average difference. The idea is to give a service to the owner of the phone and caller. Because many people don't know if one travels, so they cannot decide if something is important enough to call. |
| 09:23.08 | yacc | So the question stays, will the phone have a sensible way to launch a voice mail app? |
| 09:23.10 | xkr47 | well.. presence information is at least in hype stage today so maybe it will break through in some 5 years |
| 09:23.17 | MenZa | Paladine: ohnoes! |
| 09:23.18 | *** join/#openmoko JJ_Reimer (i=Terminal@207.194.36.250) |
| 09:23.32 | xkr47 | Paladine, lol |
| 09:23.33 | Paladine | MenZa, hehehe funniest one I have seen in a while |
| 09:23.37 | XorA | although in all this, why does it matter the callers timezone? I as a receiver would just like a phone to say, OI its midnight in my timezone fsckoff! |
| 09:23.48 | JJ_Reimer | Is openmoko going to be based off of OpenEmbedded? |
| 09:24.29 | Sencer | JJ_Reimer: it will use openembedded as a build system |
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| 09:24.44 | JJ_Reimer | ah... |
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| 09:29.10 | xkr47 | lol @ koens google.com mail :D |
| 09:29.20 | JJ_Reimer | what user interface? Is it Opie based? GTK? or a new one? |
| 09:29.51 | mindcrusher[ro] | when will be the anoncement made? |
| 09:30.13 | xkr47 | any century now |
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| 09:32.27 | aloril | Gtk2+ |
| 09:33.03 | JJ_Reimer | ah, thx |
| 09:33.16 | JJ_Reimer | so I guess it will need X then? |
| 09:33.30 | xkr47 | X, gtk2, framebuffer.. it's got them all |
| 09:33.50 | JJ_Reimer | ok.. that's a pretty hefty resource requirement, no? |
| 09:34.04 | xkr47 | we'll see :) |
| 09:34.09 | JJ_Reimer | :) |
| 09:35.25 | JJ_Reimer | what's the memory for the Neo1973? |
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| 09:36.12 | Paladine | 128MB dram and 128MB flash |
| 09:36.17 | xkr47 | 64M flash ? |
| 09:36.44 | Paladine | according to the article I read yesterday it is 128MB DRAM and 128MB Flash |
| 09:36.58 | JJ_Reimer | 128M would be good for a PDA based linux |
| 09:37.00 | xkr47 | well.. according to openmoko.com, it's 64 |
| 09:37.19 | JJ_Reimer | I ask because, I find 64 a little small for OpenZaurus with X, GTK |
| 09:37.20 | aloril | 128MiB SDRAM + 64MiB NAND Flash + micro SD |
| 09:37.26 | xkr47 | I don't see what's the difference if you can get a microSD card to extend that.. |
| 09:37.45 | JJ_Reimer | 128 is nice fast zoom room |
| 09:37.51 | xkr47 | I hope they use some JFFS or similar flash file system |
| 09:38.02 | xkr47 | zoom room ?-) |
| 09:38.22 | JJ_Reimer | :) just made that up... faster memory than SD |
| 09:38.37 | JJ_Reimer | or flash |
| 09:38.51 | xkr47 | ok well dunno about that |
| 09:39.06 | xkr47 | N800 has 256M I heard |
| 09:39.22 | XorA | xkr47: who doesnt use jffs2 on internal flash? |
| 09:39.33 | XorA | xkr47: apart from the very rare cramfs |
| 09:39.41 | xkr47 | XorA, my fuji F10 camera :) |
| 09:39.44 | koen | XorA: joern engel and wookey :) |
| 09:39.54 | XorA | koen: but they are mad |
| 09:40.05 | koen | XorA: of whom joern isn't crazy :) |
| 09:40.12 | xkr47 | :D |
| 09:40.19 | JJ_Reimer | woah! nice interface... just looking at the Neo1973 overview |
| 09:40.21 | yacc | Hmm, crazy, but it seems the data-over-voice idea is potentially possible :) |
| 09:40.49 | xkr47 | JJ_Reimer, check the wiki, it's got links to press releases with more (and newer) screenshots |
| 09:40.53 | yacc | Somebody has written a partial softmodem for Linux, that happens to have some of the lowspeed codecs working (the page claims). |
| 09:41.02 | yacc | http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/DataLinkViaGsmVoiceConnection#preview |
| 09:41.02 | JJ_Reimer | at linuxdevices |
| 09:41.25 | JJ_Reimer | I wish my zaurus looked like that :( |
| 09:41.42 | yacc | 300bps full duplex should go over GSM voice one might hope ;) |
| 09:42.46 | JJ_Reimer | Yes... that site does say 128 MB SDRAM |
| 09:42.49 | xkr47 | yacc, will you update the page ?-) |
| 09:42.55 | yacc | xkr47: I already did. |
| 09:42.56 | xkr47 | JJ_Reimer, we never questioned that :) |
| 09:43.00 | xkr47 | yacc, nicenice |
| 09:43.43 | JJ_Reimer | oh... I must have been confused :) |
| 09:43.46 | yacc | 300bps is not much, but probably enough to chatting or push mails. Makes only sense for people with extreme calling plans, but that's what is the reality. |
| 09:44.05 | xkr47 | mm |
| 09:44.06 | XorA | the only problem with the softmodem on a battery device is the cpu is going to be stuck at 100% load doing the (de)modulation |
| 09:44.25 | JJ_Reimer | ah yes... just misunderstood the previous |
| 09:44.27 | xkr47 | well, openmoko is the perfect platform for all those problems.. they can usually be solved |
| 09:44.34 | yacc | xkr47: WiFi is not an issue in .de/.at, but it seems there are places with sensible flat rates for WiFi. |
| 09:44.51 | yacc | OTOH, we do have voice flat rates in Germany ;) |
| 09:45.06 | yacc | but we do also have data flatrates ;) |
| 09:45.20 | xkr47 | you are sooo flat |
| 09:45.36 | yacc | XorA: it might be so or not. No idea how much cpu that ancient stuff will take. |
| 09:46.08 | XorA | well at least 9600 isnt quadrature multiplxed |
| 09:46.28 | yacc | xkr47: :-P |
| 09:49.01 | yacc | http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/dvbt/ is offtopic, but somehow crazy. |
| 09:49.47 | JJ_Reimer | hmmm... does the neo1973 have bluetooth? I see blueZ in the OpenMoko Software Architecture chart |
| 09:49.58 | xkr47 | JJ_Reimer, read topic |
| 09:50.27 | JJ_Reimer | :) |
| 09:50.32 | JJ_Reimer | right |
| 09:50.33 | XorA | someone been brainwashed by the iphone |
| 09:50.38 | yacc | JJ_Reimer: it does. |
| 09:50.49 | JJ_Reimer | sorry |
| 09:50.56 | JJ_Reimer | yes, I see topic |
| 09:51.21 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@i1.inoi.fi) |
| 09:52.00 | JJ_Reimer | ah... kdrive... makes sense |
| 09:52.34 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:59.54 | xkr47 | CM, xmms2 per chance ?-) |
| 10:00.45 | CM | Heh, I read their blog, but still running mpd on my server at home |
| 10:00.55 | CM | And I use Muine |
| 10:01.16 | CM | The gui in Muine is truly great |
| 10:02.21 | xkr47 | great as in giant ?-) |
| 10:03.28 | CM | No, as in lean and uncluttered |
| 10:08.00 | *** join/#openmoko Virtuall (n=virtuall@who.is.virtuall.info) |
| 10:08.32 | *** part/#openmoko JJ_Reimer (i=Terminal@207.194.36.250) |
| 10:20.24 | *** join/#openmoko florian_ (n=fuchs@dns.kernelconcepts.de) |
| 10:21.59 | florian_ | good morning |
| 10:22.46 | xkr47 | gug |
| 10:24.48 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@unaffiliated/ninher) |
| 10:40.23 | tm | morning |
| 10:40.50 | *** join/#openmoko CrippledCanary (n=Crippled@h144n1fls33o1006.telia.com) |
| 10:41.07 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
| 10:41.39 | CrippledCanary | Is Feb -07 still valid for launch? |
| 10:42.17 | hyakuhei | hehe |
| 10:44.54 | hrw|work | hmm.. Taiwan Friday will soon end... |
| 10:45.35 | yinjieh | yes |
| 10:48.17 | *** part/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 10:48.17 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 10:50.49 | xorAxAx | but the friday in alaska wont end soon |
| 10:50.57 | tm | :) |
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| 10:57.32 | *** join/#openmoko xerom (n=jack@81.193.130.75) |
| 11:00.32 | *** join/#openmoko Lorphos (n=Lorphos@unaffiliated/lorphos) |
| 11:01.10 | *** join/#openmoko Sencer_ (i=Sencer@gateway/tor/x-c1a1cb93f3a0ed36) |
| 11:06.34 | *** join/#openmoko lkcl_ (n=lkcl@5ac5f3e8.bb.sky.com) |
| 11:07.04 | Lorphos | What pieces are missing to get OpenEmbed running on MacOSX? |
| 11:07.39 | xkr47 | I guess this is the wrong forum for that q |
| 11:08.01 | hrw|work | Lorphos: ask on #oe |
| 11:09.23 | *** join/#openmoko user_ (n=user@000-046-962.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 11:15.34 | *** join/#openmoko Marty_S (n=Marty_S@engica.gotadsl.co.uk) |
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| 11:16.07 | Marty_S | no wifi? |
| 11:16.41 | CM | Nope :) |
| 11:16.56 | Marty_S | what about VOIP? |
| 11:17.02 | Marty_S | then |
| 11:17.45 | Marty_S | is that kind of quite a big omission? |
| 11:18.00 | Marty_S | or not? |
| 11:18.01 | CM | Not for version 1. It's a phone |
| 11:18.33 | xkr47 | Marty_S, there was problems finding a good wlan chip for the phone |
| 11:18.50 | xkr47 | Marty_S, or well, there are chips, but the driver needs to be open source as well and that was a bit harder |
| 11:19.01 | xkr47 | Marty_S, and it can't be one that takes a lot of power either |
| 11:19.11 | *** join/#openmoko jserv2 (n=jserv@linux3.cc.ntu.edu.tw) |
| 11:19.13 | xkr47 | Marty_S, but I'm sure they will try hard to find one for version 2 |
| 11:19.24 | Marty_S | yeah it looks beautiful |
| 11:19.56 | xkr47 | but I'm too drooly to wait for v2.. I can probably lose many nights of sleep without the wlan :) |
| 11:20.09 | xkr47 | even without the wlan* |
| 11:21.46 | florian | *yawn* |
| 11:21.51 | *** part/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@dns.kernelconcepts.de) |
| 11:26.40 | Lorphos | so, i guess it's march then after all, if february is ETA for early access.. bummer |
| 11:28.12 | xkr47 | (if you read the topic, you see that) there will be a roadmap announcement today |
| 11:28.18 | xkr47 | we're all sitting tight waiting for it :) |
| 11:40.47 | *** join/#openmoko ozamosi (n=ozamosi@2001:16d8:ff61:112:0:0:0:2) |
| 11:49.27 | Lorphos | if sean is currently in asia, i guess we can expect the announcement rather early today :-D |
| 11:55.57 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2F76D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:57.13 | ozamosi | It's been friday for AGES :( |
| 11:57.53 | etf|work | yup, I keep on hitting refresh and it's not making that annoucnement come quicker |
| 11:58.29 | TRIsoft | There was no word _which_ Friday was meant ;-) |
| 11:59.34 | ozamosi | The last announcement was on tuesday, and it as that there was going to be an announcement today :/ |
| 12:02.08 | CM | Someone should say something at least.. |
| 12:02.17 | TRIsoft | "something" |
| 12:02.36 | CM | TRIsoft: :P |
| 12:02.51 | koen | maybe announcement was "I'm hungry, let's do breakfast" |
| 12:03.09 | TRIsoft | :D |
| 12:03.19 | Sencer_ | there is a rumour they are switching to windows mobile ^^ |
| 12:03.42 | hrw|work | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:03.56 | hrw|work | TRIsoft: hi Mac |
| 12:03.58 | CM | Sencer_: Hehe... That's the way! Provoke to get an announcement |
| 12:04.10 | TRIsoft | hrw|work: Yep. Listening what the specialists say :-) |
| 12:04.17 | ozamosi | Sencer_: i think the phone is going to be sold in china with windows mobile |
| 12:04.29 | koen | Sencer_: you do know the phone actually comes with wince, right? |
| 12:04.50 | Sencer_ | yes, see, in every rumour there is a grain of truth |
| 12:05.04 | Sencer_ | even the ones I just make up on the spot |
| 12:06.36 | mindcrusher[ro] | so how long till he announcement? |
| 12:07.35 | Lorphos | sean was last soon in Taiwan and it's already in the evening there.. so if he indeed makes the announcement it can't be too far off |
| 12:07.42 | goraxe | 2369:2007 Jan 18 11:47:55 <Psi> im pretty sure the windows version is specific |
| 12:07.42 | goraxe | 2370:2007 Jan 18 11:48:37 <Psi> ie, you order one or the other |
| 12:07.43 | Lorphos | s/soon/seen/ |
| 12:09.53 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-185-123.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:13.51 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:15.40 | xkr47 | goraxe, what might that mean.. different hardware or.. |
| 12:16.37 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-124-39-221.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 12:16.52 | goraxe | xkr47: from the conv from yesterday some one asked if win{ce,mobile} would be avaliable Psi responded with he thought it would be avalible but you would have to order a specific version (ie linux ver or win* ver) |
| 12:17.08 | ozamosi | xkr47: the way I've understood it, you can buy the same hardware with either win or openmoko on it. |
| 12:17.34 | xkr47 | would be nice to know the price difference ;) |
| 12:17.45 | xkr47 | but the win might be cheaper since it's produced in bigger volume |
| 12:19.46 | buz | or because ms pays people to use their crap |
| 12:21.36 | xkr47 | but we must thank microsoft for infusing so much anger in users of their software that then gets into good use in proving linux is better :) |
| 12:21.55 | xkr47 | ;) |
| 12:25.48 | goraxe | if its cheaper theres precendent for getting a refund on bundled ms licenses (as long as you don't use the software), so if possible to grab an openmoko image and reflash the internal mem, could buy the win ver for cost savings |
| 12:27.07 | XorA | AFAIK WinCE licensing doesnt allow that |
| 12:27.17 | goraxe | no? |
| 12:27.37 | goraxe | i license you cannot explictly opt out of, thats pretty harsh |
| 12:27.40 | XorA | you dont pay for it, the manufacturer pays a royalty to use WinCE |
| 12:27.48 | goraxe | urgh |
| 12:28.31 | goraxe | hmm so theres no EULA for WinCE? |
| 12:29.01 | XorA | dont remember one on my phone |
| 12:29.23 | xkr47 | maybe you have to accept it when you first use it, dunno |
| 12:30.02 | XorA | as the license fee is already paid, it doesnt really need one |
| 12:41.03 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
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| 12:59.54 | buz | mhh the license fee for XP is already paid when you agree to the EULA... |
| 13:00.44 | XorA | buz: for WinCE you are not the customer, the OEM is |
| 13:01.06 | buz | still dont see the difference to XP |
| 13:01.33 | XorA | WinCE doesnt come on a nice shiny cd-rom you just install from, it has to be adapted in the same way as linux to the hardware target |
| 13:01.55 | buz | same for XP, only it comes pre adapter |
| 13:02.04 | buz | s/r/d |
| 13:02.22 | XorA | buz: I suggest you actually buy WinXP before commenting as your talking crap |
| 13:03.07 | buz | if the OEM pays MS, HE is the customer |
| 13:03.11 | buz | so if a i buy a machine with XP preinstalled, i'm not MS customer |
| 13:03.19 | xkr47 | windows talks crap without buying linux, so why can't we :) |
| 13:03.31 | xkr47 | or microsoft |
| 13:04.20 | xkr47 | .. because we're better than they.. |
| 13:05.38 | *** part/#openmoko Elephantman (n=Cory@vai69-1-82-67-45-194.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:05.42 | aevin | still in absence of any announcement, why not do some more speculatin and guesstimation of what we'll hear? |
| 13:06.20 | xkr47 | FUD++ |
| 13:06.37 | aevin | info about the "2007 roadmap" may not be _that_ much of a information blast. |
| 13:07.25 | aevin | perhas an estimated release date for v2 (would they do that? it could slow down the sales of v1, if people will rather wait, i don't know...) |
| 13:08.43 | buz | well if they can sell everything they can produce in china, they wouldnt care |
| 13:09.22 | buz | and supposedly there's a standing order from china so... |
| 13:10.01 | aevin | okay. |
| 13:10.02 | xkr47 | I guess they ask 10* the price for mokos ;) |
| 13:10.15 | xkr47 | I couldn't care, I'll gladly support such a movement |
| 13:10.56 | xkr47 | I guess the china order is late also |
| 13:11.25 | buz | looking at supposed iphone cost |
| 13:11.37 | buz | the neo is very likely below 200$ to make |
| 13:11.43 | *** part/#openmoko Marty_S (n=Marty_S@engica.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 13:12.57 | seaLne | but there are development etc costs on top of that, so its not all profit |
| 13:13.30 | aevin | buz: yeah, you read that BOM analysis estimating a 50 % margin for apple? and that's for the price when you get a 2-year operator plan. (this would normally reduce the price, wouldnt it?). |
| 13:13.36 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@GMKLXVII.dsl.saunalahti.fi) |
| 13:14.41 | aevin | seaLne: I didn't read it all. yes, they'll have dev costs and don't forget: i'll bet they'll ship in shiny, glossy boxes to make them extra expensive. |
| 13:15.13 | seaLne | its still interesting though |
| 13:15.16 | aevin | anyways, the iphone isn't that relevant to neo1973 and the idea of openmoko. |
| 13:15.55 | aevin | you can compare hardware and price, but what is the price of software freedom? |
| 13:16.12 | aevin | price/value |
| 13:16.43 | xkr47 | I sure hope that openmoko gives some money to FIC |
| 13:16.43 | seaLne | is this a mastercard advert? |
| 13:16.50 | xkr47 | so they continue developing |
| 13:18.23 | aevin | seaLne: ;-) |
| 13:19.55 | koen | I wonder if we should order the phone from fic or openmoko |
| 13:20.01 | koen | now that they spun-off |
| 13:20.09 | xkr47 | woot ? |
| 13:20.14 | *** join/#openmoko edwardocallaghan (n=edward@host86-129-166-165.range86-129.btcentralplus.com) |
| 13:20.16 | xkr47 | url to press release ?-) |
| 13:20.25 | Tv | spun off? |
| 13:20.30 | TRIsoft | ?? |
| 13:20.36 | koen | old news |
| 13:20.43 | koen | openmoko spun off weeks ago |
| 13:20.47 | xorAxAx | ? |
| 13:20.56 | Tv | what is openmoko, then? |
| 13:21.08 | Tv | a company, a non-profit, a loose group of hackers? |
| 13:21.08 | koen | a company :) |
| 13:21.30 | xkr47 | so they order their phones from FIC ? |
| 13:21.32 | Tv | is openmoko a sister of FIC? |
| 13:21.41 | aevin | koen: a taiwan registered one? |
| 13:21.50 | Tv | did FIC split out a risky experimental company from the more conservative main one? |
| 13:21.53 | edwardocallaghan | Is this what's really happened ? |
| 13:21.57 | xkr47 | seems like it was koen that dropped the bomb and not mickeyl :) |
| 13:22.13 | xorAxAx | koen: URL? |
| 13:22.27 | *** join/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@219.136.166.115) |
| 13:22.43 | edwardocallaghan | If so you can forget about this for or version2 |
| 13:23.41 | xkr47 | for or ? |
| 13:23.58 | *** join/#openmoko meyerm|afk (n=meyerm@p54987FA8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:24.10 | aevin | openmoko is suppose to facilitate other phone manufacturers (in addition to FIC) with the open source phone idea, right? the other manufacturers is just not as bold as FIC, and probably need to see how successful it'll work out first... ? |
| 13:25.42 | aevin | or have I misunderstood the role of openmoko? |
| 13:27.41 | noidd | hmmm |
| 13:27.46 | noidd | announcement yet? |
| 13:27.52 | xkr47 | noidd, no, just koen's |
| 13:27.59 | xkr47 | ;) |
| 13:28.12 | noidd | which is... |
| 13:28.59 | Tv | hah |
| 13:29.15 | noidd | man, soldering gets monotonous after a while |
| 13:29.27 | noidd | This must be joint #1000 by now |
| 13:29.30 | xkr47 | mickeyl, take your time :) |
| 13:29.41 | mickeyl | noidd: hats off to you, i can't even manage to solder a steel log |
| 13:31.48 | aevin | parkinsson's light |
| 13:31.49 | xkr47 | don't we all |
| 13:31.52 | noidd | mickeyl: thin bit, flux solder, temperature controlled soldering ircon |
| 13:32.03 | noidd | with the right tools its hard to make a mistake |
| 13:32.14 | *** join/#openmoko [g2] (n=g2@nslu2-linux/g2) |
| 13:32.16 | xkr47 | noidd, what you solderin ? |
| 13:32.18 | noidd | unless you have parkinsons or cerebal palsey |
| 13:32.29 | noidd | I'm just finishing up my www.midibox.org |
| 13:33.05 | mickeyl | noidd: cool. which version are you building? |
| 13:33.14 | noidd | my own |
| 13:33.21 | noidd | ie - my own hardware I should say |
| 13:33.26 | mickeyl | nice |
| 13:33.30 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 13:33.30 | noidd | latest firmware |
| 13:33.43 | noidd | probably 32 digital in, 64 analogue |
| 13:33.44 | mickeyl | i'd really like someone to look into controlling a MIDI usb interface from the neo |
| 13:34.05 | noidd | I use midi for signalling in my local theatre |
| 13:34.12 | xkr47 | well there are midi-usb already.. |
| 13:34.14 | noidd | its a not-for-profit place I volenteer for |
| 13:34.17 | xkr47 | +devices |
| 13:34.38 | noidd | mickeyl: there should be countless kernel drivers already |
| 13:34.48 | mickeyl | isn't the problem that only few are really supported ? |
| 13:34.52 | noidd | or are you thinking someone should build an application |
| 13:34.56 | mickeyl | i mean there is nothing like usb storage for midi |
| 13:35.23 | mickeyl | (standardized low level protocol) |
| 13:35.26 | noidd | mickeyl: random question - the screenies on the openmoko website - is that themery possible only because of the additional Gtk classes you created? |
| 13:35.37 | *** join/#openmoko incinerator (n=sabine@82-41-24-164.cable.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 13:36.08 | noidd | mickeyl: re standard protocol - that's criminal since midi has been a standard for years and years |
| 13:36.08 | aloril | my guesses about announcement based on mailing list and irc: |
| 13:36.27 | aloril | v2: roughly when and that it contains wifi, 3G, keyboard |
| 13:36.33 | noidd | aloril: we should have a sweepstake on the contents of the announcement |
| 13:36.35 | aloril | content of hackers lunchbox |
| 13:36.51 | mickeyl | noidd: first, i really would like marketing to stop rendered screenshots ... the final theme is not finished, but it won't look that much different. i had tons of problems with gtk+ theming, basically took me a month to implement our theme and we are not even finished. long story short, yes, some things are not possible without adding own classes |
| 13:36.56 | noidd | mickeyl is excluded from the betting but is of course welcome to give us his "guess" :-) |
| 13:37.05 | aloril | when openmoko will be available (software that runs in neo1973, dunno about phone itself) |
| 13:37.50 | noidd | followed by Gtk2.pm |
| 13:37.52 | noidd | :-D |
| 13:37.53 | aloril | v2: when: maybe 2007 Q4 |
| 13:37.56 | mickeyl | aloril: i guess the announcement (later today) will answer some of your questions |
| 13:38.19 | edwardocallaghan | Guys, I am selling everything so if you would like to pickup some good deal head over to http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220073498080 |
| 13:38.21 | aloril | mickeyl: cool |
| 13:38.46 | noidd | mickeyl: Honestly, all I want is the bugzilla / wiki open and a date for order |
| 13:38.59 | mickeyl | noidd: that you will get in a couple of hours |
| 13:38.59 | noidd | being in the dark is a little frustrating sometimes. |
| 13:39.10 | noidd | Rock on. Thanks :-) |
| 13:39.13 | mickeyl | *nod* i'm really pushing marketing for this today announcement |
| 13:39.23 | noidd | man, I should ask more often - haha |
| 13:39.29 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 13:39.45 | yacc | noidd: Well, python is I think already included in OE? |
| 13:39.45 | xkr47 | mickeyl, one thing that has been open for me is.. unless I can prove I have been developing linux openembedded stuff, do I have any chance on getting a openmoko at the date that you are about to announce? |
| 13:39.49 | noidd | does your marketting department "Get It" tho, that is the question |
| 13:39.53 | noidd | obviously Sean does |
| 13:40.18 | xkr47 | mickeyl, or will it be available for everybody now? |
| 13:40.18 | aloril | hmm.. I wonder if it will answer this question: will it contain scripting language out of box? (or maybe this is one of things that will be added by us: python support to manipulate stuff for example) |
| 13:40.21 | noidd | yacc: when I believe whitespace should be a part of syntax I'll use python :-D |
| 13:40.36 | *** join/#openmoko TiredMac (n=mac@p57A2F76D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:40.38 | noidd | yacc: and when I want to be able to execute line-noise i'll use perl :-P |
| 13:40.44 | mickeyl | xkr47: this will be covered by the announcement. i'm not supposed to disclose it earlier, sorry |
| 13:40.54 | xkr47 | mickeyl, that's all I wanted to know, thanks! |
| 13:40.57 | yacc | noidd: that's not fair, I wanted to quip about line-noise ;) |
| 13:41.07 | yacc | mickeyl: When will it be? |
| 13:41.10 | noidd | all languages have their peculiarities |
| 13:41.11 | edwardocallaghan | I hope you guys get this out the door soon, you don't want iPhone to take it all :p |
| 13:41.15 | noidd | I'm not a zelot |
| 13:41.19 | yacc | I mean in some parts of Asia it's already Saturday I'd say. |
| 13:41.32 | noidd | I'm kinda biased towards Perl because I built its cross-compilation buildsystem |
| 13:41.40 | noidd | because of OpenZaurus in fact |
| 13:41.40 | yacc | noidd: yeah, I use and fix perl scripts too ;) |
| 13:41.40 | XorA | its like rabid dogs around a good steak joint here today |
| 13:42.01 | mickeyl | yacc: last I heard guys are writing the draft, then sending it to us for review, then we'll review, then it goes back, then it gets posted. guess that'll take a bunch of hours. |
| 13:42.05 | xkr47 | noidd, all glory to you! |
| 13:42.17 | noidd | and I did the 4 hour training / lectures on Gtk programming in perl for YAPC::Europe for a few years. |
| 13:42.33 | noidd | xkr47: No, not really. I let it slide and someone else took it up. |
| 13:42.44 | noidd | so actually, I suck[tm] |
| 13:43.02 | edwardocallaghan | mickeyl:What sync software will come with the phone ? |
| 13:43.14 | edwardocallaghan | Or am I making my own ? |
| 13:43.40 | noidd | haha |
| 13:43.40 | mickeyl | no iday, PIM is not exactly my strength ;) |
| 13:43.46 | mickeyl | heh |
| 13:43.48 | yacc | mickeyl: just wondering, who are you? *g* |
| 13:44.07 | xkr47 | he's our hero! |
| 13:44.09 | xkr47 | :) |
| 13:44.10 | mickeyl | i'm just a random guy being hired by OpenMoko to be their lead application framework architect |
| 13:44.12 | mickeyl | nothing more |
| 13:44.15 | mickeyl | nothing less ;) |
| 13:44.33 | xkr47 | mickeyl, well to this little channel over here, you're a lot more :) |
| 13:44.35 | mickeyl | seriously, initially i just was supposed to cover OE |
| 13:44.41 | mickeyl | :) |
| 13:44.49 | noidd | mickely: have you submitted your Gtk patches upstream yet? |
| 13:45.02 | xkr47 | mickeyl, hope you aren't overswamped with stuff and get a burnout :P |
| 13:45.06 | parag0n | outlook express? ;) |
| 13:45.07 | mickeyl | noidd: went all the way without a single patch yet. |
| 13:45.14 | mickeyl | the final version may need some |
| 13:45.20 | mickeyl | which i will instantaneously will submit upstream |
| 13:45.28 | *** join/#openmoko daxxar (n=daxxar@daxxar.com) |
| 13:45.28 | aloril | ok, so my v2 speculation based on this is not covered: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001154.html |
| 13:45.34 | mickeyl | ~spell instantaneously |
| 13:46.13 | edwardocallaghan | parag0n: sed /outlook express/L@@Kout ! express/ |
| 13:46.19 | xkr47 | although the themes weren't that straightforward :P |
| 13:46.25 | noidd | I'm surprised you didn't need to patch the header files to inform the system of your new classes |
| 13:46.27 | edwardocallaghan | ^s/ :p |
| 13:46.36 | noidd | but thinking about it, the buildsystem probably does that automatically. |
| 13:46.49 | yacc | What were the platform one needs to build OE for to be compatible with the Neo? |
| 13:47.08 | noidd | the only reason that I'm asking about the upstream is cos I want to see it - heh. |
| 13:47.14 | daxxar | Any pricing information available? |
| 13:47.21 | XorA | openmoko did the unbeleiveable and got mickeyl coding gtk+ :-) |
| 13:47.38 | mickeyl | heh, no kidding. that was a tough thing for me |
| 13:47.48 | noidd | $350 is on the website. |
| 13:47.53 | mickeyl | if i wasn't convinced by the project I wouldn't have joined. I really love Qt |
| 13:47.58 | XorA | now he has to go to Qt rehab once a week |
| 13:48.02 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 13:48.10 | parag0n | any rumblings on what time the roadmap will be out yet? |
| 13:48.23 | daxxar | Where on the page, noidd? :) |
| 13:48.37 | noidd | I saw you talk about how you didn't like the way that Gtk does its object -> child parenting on your blog. |
| 13:48.45 | noidd | ironically that's why I prefer it to QT |
| 13:48.47 | Tv | parag0n: plural hours |
| 13:48.52 | noidd | horses, courses etc |
| 13:49.00 | mickeyl | yacc: MACHINE = "smdk2440" should be kind of compatible |
| 13:49.07 | mickeyl | basically, arum920t |
| 13:49.10 | aloril | parag0n: 2007-01-19 15:42:01 <mickeyl> yacc: last I heard guys are writing the draft, then sending it to us for review, then we'll review, then it goes back, then it gets posted. guess that'll take a bunch of hours. |
| 13:49.11 | mickeyl | arm920t, even |
| 13:49.21 | aloril | (some minutes ago) |
| 13:49.23 | Tv | mailing list said: |
| 13:49.24 | Tv | Follow the instructions on http://openembedded.org, MACHINE=ep93xx, DISTRO=generic should |
| 13:49.24 | Tv | build compatible binaries. |
| 13:49.27 | noidd | daxxar: sec |
| 13:49.34 | parag0n | i suppose i can sleep then :D |
| 13:50.17 | mickeyl | ya, ep93xx is arm920t as well |
| 13:50.17 | noidd | heh, www.openmoko.com is non-responsive |
| 13:50.25 | yacc | Tv: thx, was unsure where I've read it (irc or mail). |
| 13:50.33 | mickeyl | noidd: works fine from here |
| 13:50.58 | noidd | ah, there she is |
| 13:51.04 | aloril | btw.. I'm curious: how many of you: a) already have neo b) plan to buy one (as soon as possible) c) just interested but don't intend to buy one |
| 13:51.13 | aloril | <-- b) |
| 13:51.31 | daxxar | is it possible to have it |
| 13:51.44 | noidd | daxxar: I can't find it. google for any news article and you'll find a reference to the price |
| 13:51.50 | daxxar | ok |
| 13:51.56 | ozamosi | aloril: b |
| 13:52.03 | noidd | alroil: b |
| 13:52.08 | CM | aloril: b |
| 13:52.13 | daxxar | aloril: I was under the impression that it wasn't out yet? |
| 13:52.15 | daxxar | aloril: b |
| 13:52.18 | XorA | aline: b |
| 13:52.19 | aloril | daxxar: not yet available, but some developers have it |
| 13:52.22 | daxxar | ok |
| 13:52.23 | XorA | aloril: b |
| 13:52.28 | mickeyl | 350 USD is written in all announcements |
| 13:52.50 | noidd | mickeyl: are you still working on maze of protoboards ? |
| 13:52.57 | daxxar | mk |
| 13:53.01 | edwardocallaghan | I got to go, take care guys |
| 13:53.18 | aloril | daxxar: some developers with existing track record of doing embedded stuff have had various versions of hardware some months (working on it of course) |
| 13:53.26 | ozamosi | I wonder if "REALLY want it!" is a good enough reason to get one of the earlier developer-only ones :) |
| 13:53.26 | XorA | yacc: smdk2440 is my baby, so if you find problems let me know |
| 13:53.48 | *** part/#openmoko edwardocallaghan (n=edward@host86-129-166-165.range86-129.btcentralplus.com) |
| 13:53.49 | mickeyl | noidd: still proto, however much closer to production than a coupe of weeks ago. almost everything working |
| 13:53.55 | koen | isn't the 2440 armv5? |
| 13:54.05 | XorA | koen: nope |
| 13:54.17 | XorA | arm920t linke the s3c2410 |
| 13:54.25 | koen | ah |
| 13:54.35 | koen | must be confused with the 24a0 I guess |
| 13:54.37 | XorA | 2413 is arm926ejs |
| 13:54.48 | aloril | hmm.. so far 100% either have it or plan to get it |
| 13:55.41 | mickeyl | the actual demand for an open phone is unbelievable (among small businesses and single developers). i guess a lot of them just will yank the firmware and do their own thing |
| 13:55.58 | koen | fscking cloners |
| 13:56.03 | noidd | cool |
| 13:56.15 | xkr47 | aloril, b |
| 13:56.27 | XorA | whats the bets there is a CackoMoko ROM ripped from sl-5500 :-) |
| 13:56.35 | mickeyl | which is perfectly ok, that's what it's for. on the other hand I hope eventually we may improve OpenMoko framework to be some kind of common demoninator -- together with parts of Maemo and ALP. |
| 13:56.37 | daxxar | Rather have someone develop their own software and resell it, than like with the HTC. (Same firmware with *minor* modifications) |
| 13:56.52 | buz | i wonder if som chinese odm will manutfacture neo clones |
| 13:56.59 | aloril | a:3, b:7 |
| 13:57.25 | mickeyl | buz: heh, that'd be pretty pointless -- they can't make it cheaper than FIC |
| 13:57.33 | buz | sure they can |
| 13:57.41 | buz | they dont need to pay any developers |
| 13:57.48 | buz | just the odd engineer |
| 13:58.04 | XorA | buz: mickeyl is the odd engineer :-D |
| 13:58.04 | buz | or outright steal the whole design |
| 13:58.19 | buz | by engineer i meant people designing pcb and such |
| 13:58.24 | aloril | hmm.. hardware != software |
| 13:58.35 | parag0n | mickeyl, dont you have to go through all sorts of certifications to sell them to people in the UK / US? |
| 13:58.43 | parag0n | (the hardware, that is) |
| 13:58.46 | aloril | stealing hardware design is not same as stealing software design |
| 13:59.00 | aloril | openmoko == stealing software design is recommended |
| 13:59.03 | mickeyl | parag0n: i don't think so, 'cause most parts are precertified, but honestly, i have no idea about those issued |
| 13:59.07 | mickeyl | issues, even |
| 13:59.08 | aloril | (not really stealing ;-) |
| 13:59.18 | buz | yes, and stealing hardware designs, well chinese do it all the time |
| 13:59.20 | noidd | UL for the psu and GSM module already built |
| 13:59.32 | buz | (at times they even improve them while they are at it ;) |
| 13:59.33 | XorA | It will require CE testing for the EU of course, but thats pretty basic if all the components are already tested |
| 13:59.43 | ozamosi | buz: if they create a phone that is as good as - or even better - than the neo1973, based on the same software, that sounds like a good thing. I think OpenMoko has stated that they will make money from extra services, so that should work with any clones as well. |
| 14:00.09 | buz | well allowing people to do clones is not entirely the same as hepling them to do it ;) |
| 14:00.34 | Tv | if your business model is threatened by companies imitating you, you have a bad business model ;) |
| 14:01.02 | Tv | (the only real acceptable excuse is "but we have one year lead on them") |
| 14:01.06 | parag0n | its just interesting that apple are having to wait 6 months to get theirs FCC certified, yet FIC can ship in like 6 - 8 weeks |
| 14:01.09 | Tv | (and even them, they might be better funded than you) |
| 14:01.46 | Tv | parag0n: or apple says it needs to wait, while it still hasn't completed development.. |
| 14:01.46 | parag0n | woudn't surprise me |
| 14:02.06 | Tv | "Our FCC certification won't complete until Q4" is true in both cases ;) |
| 14:04.12 | robtaylor | mickeyl: hey, you havn't replied to my reply about devmand yet ;) |
| 14:05.04 | *** join/#openmoko highvoltage (n=jaagaan@johannesleroux.co.za) |
| 14:06.07 | mickeyl | robtaylor: yeah, sorry about that. devmand work has been postponed a couple of weeks, so i didn't have a chance to evaluate hal, gnome power manager, and micro hal |
| 14:06.21 | mickeyl | and alsa-bluetooth, they also have a proposal |
| 14:06.55 | robtaylor | mickeyl: oh, cool. we need to get a whole group of us around on this one. How about a devroom chat at fosdem? |
| 14:07.04 | koen | robtaylor, mickeyl: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001530.html |
| 14:07.22 | mickeyl | robtaylor: yes, that'd be nice. |
| 14:08.03 | mickeyl | koen: read pulseaudio slides as well today. looking really appealing for audio subsystem. |
| 14:08.07 | mickeyl | so many things to evaluate |
| 14:08.08 | mickeyl | *sigh* |
| 14:08.16 | hyakuhei | I think I'm gonna have to get the new rizr and an openmoko, so I still have something to use whilst I break my O< :-D |
| 14:08.27 | parag0n | hey hyakuhei |
| 14:08.41 | robtaylor | koen: interestingly if you have mjg59's hal bluetooth addon, you don't need anything special in pulseaudio for bluetooth |
| 14:08.44 | hyakuhei | mickeyl: all these things to evaluate, isn't that a big plus? |
| 14:08.54 | hyakuhei | hey parag0n |
| 14:09.16 | parag0n | http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Ideas/SilentHangup <-- anyone know if this will be possible to do with the neo1973? |
| 14:09.41 | mickeyl | on one hand, yes, on the other hand, it means a lot of work + time gets spent without getting any code done. Being now in the position of having deadlineds, I can understand why some projects keep reinventing. |
| 14:09.44 | robtaylor | mickeyl: well hal and gpm both have the benefit that they actually exist ;) |
| 14:10.18 | hyakuhei | hah, robtaylor has a point there |
| 14:10.46 | mickeyl | parag0n: absolutely. i don't see any technical problems in that. "just" needs to be implemented |
| 14:10.50 | mickeyl | :) |
| 14:10.50 | xkr47 | mickeyl, there was one issue with pulseaudio.. if the samplerate is not the expected one, it uses libsamplerate to convert.. which is cpu-heavy |
| 14:10.52 | robtaylor | mickeyl: if you ever want a hand figuring out functionailty, what bits fit together, what th downsides are for embedded, give me a shout |
| 14:11.05 | mickeyl | robtaylor: will do, thanks |
| 14:11.06 | hyakuhei | parag0n: I hope so, thats a basic feature that even my phones do |
| 14:11.13 | robtaylor | mickeyl: as you probably guessed, i've been doing quite a bit of that myself already :) |
| 14:11.15 | koen | xkr47: see http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001530.html |
| 14:11.49 | parag0n | hyakuhei, really? i've never seen it on a phone i've played with |
| 14:12.12 | robtaylor | koen: wasn't libsamplerate origininally a fork of a fixed-point impl? can we pursade themto have a configure option for that? |
| 14:12.32 | xkr47 | koen, yeah I read that and that's why I spoke out :) |
| 14:13.02 | xkr47 | but I mean I'd probably be ok with "nearest_sample" instead of floating-point interpolation |
| 14:13.05 | hyakuhei | parag0n: All sony erricsons since the k750i (maybe earlier), when the phone rings, just press the volume button on the side, ringer goes silent but technically still rings |
| 14:13.13 | XorA | robtaylor: if you are running at 48KHz then oversampling lower freq's is easy and doesnt need float |
| 14:13.14 | koen | robtaylor: the libsamplerate dude is on my shitlist after getting too much hatemail from him about how he thinks a release manager should do releases |
| 14:13.47 | xkr47 | so maybe libsamplerate could be exchanged for some less-precise light-cpu.. |
| 14:14.02 | parag0n | hmm, neat |
| 14:14.13 | parag0n | still, i want it on the neo ;) |
| 14:14.28 | xkr47 | lol |
| 14:14.35 | hrw|work | hyakuhei: many phones has 'turn off sound of ring' feature |
| 14:14.50 | hyakuhei | hrw|work: yes, thats my point |
| 14:14.51 | robtaylor | koen: resample: http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/resample/resample-1.8.1.tar.gz |
| 14:14.51 | hrw|work | iirc even my 4 years old nokia 6310i had it |
| 14:14.57 | parag0n | i'd like it to re-lock the screen so i can stick it back in my pocket |
| 14:14.58 | xkr47 | robtaylor, is that integer-based ? |
| 14:15.01 | Sencer | hyakuhei: all sonericsson and before that the ericsson phones would "keep ringing" silently if you pressed "C" |
| 14:15.06 | XorA | my HTC wizard has an Out Of Memory hangup mode :-) |
| 14:15.08 | robtaylor | xkr47: i think so |
| 14:15.17 | robtaylor | and LGPL too |
| 14:15.20 | koen | robtaylor: if we can convince lennart to use that.... |
| 14:15.30 | xkr47 | koen, lennart == pulseaudio guy ? |
| 14:15.35 | koen | xkr47: yes |
| 14:15.49 | robtaylor | koen: i think you'd probably have a chance, if someone writes a patch |
| 14:15.52 | hyakuhei | Either way, I found throwing my phone either at a wall or down a toilet to provide a perfectly adequate alternative |
| 14:16.18 | robtaylor | koen: at least with a configure time option |
| 14:16.25 | xkr47 | I guess it would be nice for pulseaudio to support resampling in integer math, since it seems to be deployed a lot in non-desktop environments |
| 14:18.09 | noidd | there is something fundimentally wrong with an "Out of memory" hangup |
| 14:18.13 | xkr47 | koen, just ping if you want me to look at swapping out libsamplerate for somethign else |
| 14:18.39 | koen | xkr47: ping :) |
| 14:18.50 | xkr47 | pong! |
| 14:19.03 | XorA | noidd: thats windows mobile for you, but no-one can phone me because there isnt enough memory to launch the phone application |
| 14:20.08 | leventhal | My hiptop does worse. It hangs and doesn't give me an error sometimes. Then two hours later I notice it's frozen, I reset it and notice I have ten angry voicemails. |
| 14:20.25 | daxxar | I love how my last Windows Mobile firmware had random crashes of the phone module. The interface looked all goody (good GSM signal, etc) - no errors - but anyone trying to call me got an error as if it was off, and any SMS was delayed. |
| 14:20.28 | XorA | leventhal: from the wife :-) |
| 14:20.29 | daxxar | Only way to fix it was reboot. :P |
| 14:20.55 | xkr47 | I actually installed pulseaudio yesterday at my home computer with an idea I could play music from my phone through my pc speakers and the other way around |
| 14:21.06 | xkr47 | my upcoming moko phone* |
| 14:21.12 | leventhal | Haha.. that's a cool idea |
| 14:21.21 | aloril | parag0n: I think so, at least you could press button in phone that makes it diverted to in phone voicemail |
| 14:21.39 | *** join/#openmoko Lorphos (n=Lorphos@unaffiliated/lorphos) |
| 14:21.44 | robtaylor | xkr47: http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/ i think is the homepage of the writer of resample |
| 14:21.50 | xkr47 | and why not play music from my pc to the guy I'm chatting on the phone with :) |
| 14:22.14 | xkr47 | robtaylor, yeah.. I'll look into that this evening (i.e. starting sometimes around 4-8 hours from now) |
| 14:22.26 | robtaylor | xkr47: i think it might need some api love |
| 14:22.26 | CM | robtaylor: Heh, fancy name " Julius Orion Smith III " |
| 14:22.36 | xkr47 | robtaylor, api love ?-) |
| 14:22.45 | xkr47 | CM, :) |
| 14:22.45 | robtaylor | CM: yeah, very american name.. |
| 14:22.57 | xkr47 | Gtk+ II |
| 14:23.22 | robtaylor | xkr47: well mostof it is a commandline util for resampling. some of that might need to be put out into a libarary with an api |
| 14:23.48 | robtaylor | xkr47: and the libsnd might not be needed. Mind you i've only had a quick skim over |
| 14:23.54 | xkr47 | mickeyl, is it out of "to have prior work to display" that openmoko stuff is not being revealed until release ? |
| 14:24.06 | robtaylor | it also could do with a cvs/svn/git/bla... |
| 14:24.06 | xkr47 | (i.e. to avoid others taking the ideas and getting patents) |
| 14:24.08 | aloril | parag0n: well.. I guess that needs to be coded, might not be in it out of box (in phone voicemail) |
| 14:25.16 | aloril | parag0n: I imagine it would work like this: phone 'answers', but instead of voice coming from mic voice comes from file (press 1 to leave voicemail press 2 to hangup) |
| 14:25.30 | xkr47 | robtaylor, well if I could make it provide an implementation of the libsamplerate api... lennart would surely like that :) |
| 14:25.37 | aloril | and if voicemail program detects 1 being pressed start recording until other side hangs up |
| 14:25.37 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 14:25.42 | robtaylor | xkr47: that would be the most effective, yep :) |
| 14:26.05 | xkr47 | I wouldn't have to provide any docs either.. ;---) |
| 14:26.15 | xkr47 | "the specs are there, just do it" |
| 14:26.53 | robtaylor | xkr47: well, jsut don't copy anything straight from libsamplerate, as its GPL, not LGPL |
| 14:26.59 | mickeyl | xkr47: no. in fact the only reason why the stuff isn't out yet, is because of the state. it's just not ready yet. in fact if it was me, I'd like to have it closed for some 3 or 4 more months to polish it, but I'm a minority here. that's why it will be opened up very soon |
| 14:27.23 | mickeyl | "release early, release often" |
| 14:27.30 | robtaylor | mickeyl: nothing wrong with polishing in public.. look at Nokia.. ;) |
| 14:27.31 | mickeyl | but not too early ;) |
| 14:27.50 | xkr47 | mickeyl, you don't like releasing unpolished stuff out of professional pride or ? |
| 14:28.13 | mickeyl | i think that's the major issue for me personally, yes |
| 14:28.16 | mickeyl | but don't worry |
| 14:28.22 | mickeyl | i don't have the last say here :) |
| 14:28.24 | xkr47 | robtaylor, resample isn't ? |
| 14:28.34 | koen | you don't get a second chance for a first impression |
| 14:28.39 | robtaylor | xkr47: resample is LGPL, it'd be good to keep it that way :) |
| 14:28.49 | xkr47 | mickeyl, I'm a polisher myself and work at a place where I have little say so.. I know :) |
| 14:28.57 | ozamosi | mickeyl: if the hardware actually works, the rest can be updated later. |
| 14:29.11 | xkr47 | mickeyl, but I have also learned that sometimes early releases find bugs faster.. |
| 14:29.30 | robtaylor | when it comes to open source, you shouldn't let it not being finished hold you back from a release |
| 14:29.36 | mickeyl | ozamosi: i agree. it's just that i'm a bit frightened about the press grabbing the source and flaming about its state. |
| 14:29.37 | xkr47 | "ozamosi: I just wanna see it identify my bluetooth headset, that's all !!" |
| 14:29.40 | ozamosi | Of course, it'd result in loads of bad press, though :( |
| 14:29.53 | robtaylor | use major version changes to say when things are ready for public consumption |
| 14:29.53 | CM | mickeyl: I'm used to the rule "If it compiles, ship it" |
| 14:29.57 | xkr47 | s/ozamosi:/<ozamosi>/ |
| 14:29.59 | robtaylor | but other hackers don't care if its polished |
| 14:30.09 | xkr47 | apt, nice sedding there! :DDD |
| 14:30.11 | apt | ACTION lowers sedding there! :DDD's priority |
| 14:30.11 | hyakuhei | Just do a google and tag everything with *beta* - sigh |
| 14:31.16 | robtaylor | mickeyl: i think you think the press is more capable than it is ;) |
| 14:31.36 | aloril | yeah, I see lame reviews already "it doesn't do this or that or ...", so yeah probably good idea to say its developer release only even if its available for anybody with money |
| 14:31.47 | *** join/#openmoko twoblackeyes (n=blackeye@pool-71-255-62-38.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
| 14:32.28 | aloril | hehe, yeah "Warning, this is not even beta version yet" ;-) |
| 14:32.36 | mickeyl | *nod* |
| 14:32.51 | ozamosi | I want it NOW personally, but, as others say, claiming that it is "ready" before it kicks ass would probably be bad. |
| 14:33.10 | xkr47 | good luck mickeyl with getting it to sound right! |
| 14:33.20 | koen | releasing the source before the hardware could get you a few nice bugfixes |
| 14:33.37 | xkr47 | good point.. |
| 14:33.47 | koen | mickeyl: how's tosamoko doing? |
| 14:33.48 | ozamosi | koen: agred! |
| 14:34.00 | aloril | as long as I can do this: "basic calling works (with basic address book), ssh works, sms works, umm..." I want one |
| 14:34.22 | xkr47 | "I just want to hold it in my arms" |
| 14:34.36 | aloril | s/as I can/as it can/ |
| 14:34.57 | xkr47 | s/"/"" |
| 14:35.19 | xkr47 | somebody should add support to apt to accept sed expressions with the ending slash |
| 14:35.23 | xkr47 | ;) |
| 14:35.32 | xkr47 | without* |
| 14:35.56 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2F76D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:36.08 | mickeyl | koen: i stumbled over the bug in populate-volatile.sh |
| 14:36.33 | koen | mickeyl: the one which ph5 fixes, or another one? |
| 14:36.36 | aloril | 2007-01-19 01:40:44 <dduardo> ALICE + festival: Your phone talks for you |
| 14:36.37 | *** join/#openmoko alp (n=alp@host-87-74-40-238.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 14:36.46 | mickeyl | koen: i think the ph5 one. but other than that, it worked. looked less impressive on the screen though. |
| 14:36.50 | xkr47 | alp, :) |
| 14:36.53 | xkr47 | aloril, even |
| 14:36.57 | aloril | hmm.. add voice -> text and then you could to this |
| 14:36.57 | mickeyl | 280 dpi really make a difference |
| 14:37.03 | xkr47 | stealth joining by alp there |
| 14:37.28 | alp | heh. afternoon |
| 14:37.29 | xkr47 | 280dpi is a lot |
| 14:37.29 | buz | mhh some qtopia guys were here before |
| 14:37.40 | buz | they are out for us |
| 14:37.47 | aloril | start "voice -> text -> alice -> festival" -button when marketing rings ;-) |
| 14:38.02 | xkr47 | out to kill, embrace or out of scope ?-) |
| 14:38.06 | buz | that'd be like a turing test for the marketer |
| 14:38.22 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=rob_w@p549B9354.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:38.26 | buz | out to get us |
| 14:38.47 | xkr47 | "the tinfoilhat actually amplif..." |
| 14:39.28 | CM | alp: Want mono on it? ;) |
| 14:40.47 | benJIman | alp: are you going to fosdem? |
| 14:41.17 | benJIman | Also have you been scared off by compsoc? |
| 14:41.52 | Sencer | xkr47: image a beowulf cluster of Neos... |
| 14:42.01 | koen | mickeyl: but the tosa showed the same issues as the gta01? |
| 14:42.09 | xkr47 | Sencer, I only have two eyes, sorry ;) |
| 14:42.10 | alp | CM: sure. i am not quite sure what "it" is yet, but sure ;-) |
| 14:42.23 | xkr47 | Sencer, stereo sight is enough for me ;) |
| 14:42.37 | ozamosi | xkr47: get four, and you can do double buffering :) |
| 14:42.40 | CM | alp: Was refering to OpenMoko running on a Neo1973 |
| 14:42.52 | *** join/#openmoko jthomas (n=jthomas@hotel.sierrabravo.net) |
| 14:42.52 | alp | benJIman: fosdem is on the cards. i should get my ass back in compsoc in the meantime |
| 14:42.57 | mickeyl | koen: the slowness, yes. it's a Gtk + theming problem. |
| 14:42.58 | xkr47 | ozamosi, lol |
| 14:43.06 | *** join/#openmoko etf|work (n=etf|work@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 14:43.09 | benJIman | alp: people are booking transport & accommodation soon, see the wuglug list |
| 14:43.10 | aloril | so far record number of nicks: 182 2007-01-17 22:37:06 EET |
| 14:43.40 | koen | mickeyl: tried sapwood yet? |
| 14:43.48 | mickeyl | koen: not yet :/ |
| 14:43.49 | xkr47 | aloril, and how many lines ?-) |
| 14:43.55 | mickeyl | koen: time... ya know |
| 14:44.26 | alp | benJIman: brilliant. other plans for travel fell through, will check it out. have not been to fosdem since 2002(?). exciting stuff |
| 14:44.26 | aloril | 29695 lines since 2006-12-04 16:56:40 EET |
| 14:44.54 | xkr47 | aloril, nice numbers :) |
| 14:45.17 | xkr47 | aloril, maybe some plots would be nice too of traffic development |
| 14:45.50 | leventhal | sounds fun |
| 14:47.36 | aloril | xkr47: somebody has archived it for even longer: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko/ |
| 14:48.35 | hrw|work | ~logs |
| 14:48.36 | apt | apt/ibot/jbot/purl all log to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz, or updated "nightly" |
| 14:49.20 | xkr47 | apt, you're wrong, it's URL encoded, not HTML encoded.. html encoded would be just # or  ! |
| 14:53.06 | *** join/#openmoko Laibsch (n=Laibsch@R779e.r.ppp-pool.de) |
| 15:09.49 | *** join/#openmoko cyphase (n=cyphase@c-71-202-49-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:12.12 | *** join/#openmoko vargr (n=vargr@dsl092-109-027.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 15:12.52 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft_ (n=mac@p57A2F76D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:13.52 | *** join/#openmoko Matt_H (n=chatzill@209.198.66.141) |
| 15:14.19 | noidd | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:14.29 | noidd | archive this (and not the line before) |
| 15:14.31 | noidd | cute |
| 15:15.34 | noidd | hmm, 31 days to my birthday and I think we all know what I want for that ;-D |
| 15:15.52 | *** join/#openmoko gobe (n=gobe@n014h098.wst.mun.ca) |
| 15:16.11 | aevin | noidd: i have no iddea |
| 15:16.28 | hrw|work | noidd: bottle of wine and kiss from beautiful girl? |
| 15:17.14 | gobe | so openmoko supports gtk+ 2.6? |
| 15:17.41 | rob_w | gobe, i bet it will even be 2.8 or so |
| 15:18.12 | koen | 2.6.10 iirc |
| 15:18.23 | gobe | so i suppose that means i shouldn't both with cairo and stick to drawing with gdk |
| 15:18.30 | gobe | both=bother |
| 15:24.35 | Paladine | no announcement yet? |
| 15:25.12 | vargr | it's only friday for, uh, 12.5 more hours here |
| 15:25.15 | koen | gobe: you can always install cairo |
| 15:25.39 | xorAxAx | the topic doesnt say if it will this friday or the next friday, or even another friday, Paladine |
| 15:25.44 | jthomas | cairo makes for better graphics? IMHO, it should be included if so... |
| 15:25.50 | xorAxAx | s/ll t/ll be t/ |
| 15:26.23 | koen | I don't think aliasing is a big issue on a 300dpi screen |
| 15:26.49 | XorA | someone stealing me nick there xorAxAx :-) |
| 15:26.50 | Paladine | xorAxAx, apparantly the announcement on tuesday was that the roadmap announcement would be this firday (as in today) |
| 15:26.56 | leventhal | vargr: what time zone are you in? |
| 15:27.20 | xorAxAx | Paladine: the topic doesnt know that, though |
| 15:27.30 | aevin | Paladine: they're probably proofreading it now. |
| 15:27.36 | xorAxAx | XorA: you seem to be a bit short grown compared to me :) |
| 15:27.46 | xorAxAx | XorA: i am executable 8086 assembler, how about you? |
| 15:27.48 | XorA | xorAxAx: Im only a little 8 bit micro |
| 15:27.56 | Paladine | yeah but I am quite capable of reading the topic, I never asked what the topic says :p I have just been away from my PC for a little while and wondered if anything had happened in my ansence :p |
| 15:28.00 | Paladine | absence |
| 15:28.02 | XorA | xorAxAx: Z80 assembler |
| 15:28.08 | xorAxAx | oh, z80 ... |
| 15:28.17 | xorAxAx | reminds me at my adaptec controller |
| 15:28.25 | leventhal | reminds me of my ti-83 |
| 15:28.27 | *** join/#openmoko Sencer (i=Sencer@gateway/tor/x-15416ae4f34f5e8a) |
| 15:28.29 | xorAxAx | and the alphatronic pc of my father |
| 15:29.31 | gobe | koen: can cairo be used with earlier versions of gtk+ like 2.6? |
| 15:29.49 | koen | yes |
| 15:30.05 | koen | altough I'd wait till cairo 1.4 gets released before trying it in the neo |
| 15:30.11 | koen | cairo 1.2 is a bit slow |
| 15:30.19 | xorAxAx | koen: so, please elaborate on your openmoko/fic topic you talked about before |
| 15:30.32 | koen | gobe: http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/cairo-performance-improvements-on-arm |
| 15:30.41 | gobe | koen: i see, well since i only need rudimentary drawing tools, perhaps i should just stick with gdk for speed |
| 15:38.04 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@fsf/member/bkuhn/bkuhn) |
| 15:38.10 | gobe | are there any issues with using gtkmm for openmoko dev? |
| 15:39.02 | mickeyl | other than the speed and memory penality, no |
| 15:39.21 | gobe | yes that's what i am curious of |
| 15:39.31 | gobe | are they big penalties? |
| 15:39.47 | mickeyl | speed wise probably not |
| 15:39.55 | mickeyl | just a set of additional function call indirections |
| 15:40.00 | gobe | indeed |
| 15:40.05 | mickeyl | however memory might be a couple of MBs |
| 15:40.24 | gobe | how much does the neo have? |
| 15:41.30 | mickeyl | 128MB |
| 15:41.34 | mickeyl | sdram, that is |
| 15:41.42 | gobe | i see |
| 15:41.57 | mickeyl | which should be ok, just a question of how many concurrent apps you may want to run |
| 15:42.03 | mickeyl | i even want to see Qt apps on OpenMoko |
| 15:42.07 | mickeyl | so, we'll see |
| 15:42.23 | TRIsoft | mickeyl: Qt apps would be nice |
| 15:42.49 | gobe | is this roadmap announcement concerning hardware or software? |
| 15:44.03 | jthomas | KDE apps would be nice also; i want the Neo but I doubt it will win me over to GNOME.. |
| 15:44.23 | *** part/#openmoko travalas (i=travalas@nat/ibm/x-011ca9db3630c7ff) |
| 15:45.40 | mickeyl | gobe: both |
| 15:45.48 | gobe | oh nice |
| 15:46.12 | mickeyl | desktop environments are not really suited for embedded systems anyway |
| 15:46.13 | mickeyl | at least not on 2.8" VGA :D |
| 15:46.13 | mickeyl | not counting the usability paradigms |
| 15:46.17 | mickeyl | heh |
| 15:48.01 | aloril | I guess this is still true "... guys are writing the draft ...", ie you haven't gotten it for review yet (I should not be this inpatient ..): I guess they want to be reasonably careful, it might end up in various places and quoted, etc... |
| 15:48.35 | gobe | thanks koen and mickeyl |
| 15:54.50 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 15:57.56 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 16:02.05 | *** join/#openmoko robtaylo1 (n=robtaylo@63.99.9.131) |
| 16:02.33 | *** part/#openmoko mintee (n=mintee@72-165-177-90.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 16:08.14 | *** join/#openmoko kabturek (n=trampek@223-dzi-4.acn.waw.pl) |
| 16:09.31 | kabturek | ETA on announcement ? ;) |
| 16:09.47 | koen | 2 weeks |
| 16:11.18 | Tv | if I ask that again will it be 3 weeks?-) |
| 16:11.31 | kabturek | koen: you are 2 weeks behind man ;) its today ;) only i don't know the time :) |
| 16:13.39 | aloril | kabturek: probably any time to some hours |
| 16:16.39 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_nokia (n=greentux@tmo-091-100.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 16:22.35 | *** topic/#openmoko by mickeyl -> OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.com | http://lists.openmoko.org | Neo1973 ETA for early access: February 2007 | Wifi: No, Multitouch: No, Bluetooth: Yes | Direct-Sale World Wide | No Preorders yet | 2007 Roadmap Announcement Today (Central Time) |
| 16:23.40 | TRIsoft | mickeyl: Today, Pacific time would give you three extra hours :-) |
| 16:24.03 | mickeyl | hehe, central time should be enough for Sean to wake up again :) |
| 16:24.14 | *** join/#openmoko SubWolf (n=rob@69.92.38.82) |
| 16:24.15 | TRIsoft | mickeyl: That's true |
| 16:24.31 | mickeyl | actually yukon time in Alaska |
| 16:24.34 | mickeyl | 07:24 |
| 16:24.35 | mickeyl | :D |
| 16:24.58 | mickeyl | or even hawaii |
| 16:25.03 | mickeyl | 06:24 |
| 16:25.56 | Sencer | for people not in the US: Central Daylight Time (CDT) = GMT-5 |
| 16:26.19 | SubWolf | Right, but isn't it standard time right now, or GMT-6.... |
| 16:26.43 | *** join/#openmoko Lorphos (n=user@unaffiliated/lorphos) |
| 16:27.16 | Lorphos | central time? what does that mean? somewhere between 9am and 5pm central? |
| 16:27.20 | aloril | < 13.6h |
| 16:27.26 | Sencer | SubWolf: oops, of course you're right. |
| 16:28.10 | SubWolf | :) np, didn't they change the bloody laws in the US about when daylight savings starts anyway this year? Ridiculous. :x |
| 16:31.28 | *** join/#openmoko ValiSystM (n=ValiSyst@lns-bzn-50f-81-56-207-165.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 16:33.30 | *** join/#openmoko slomo_ (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 16:34.24 | SubWolf | Ha, front-page story on Digg Technology about it too. "In the United States the start and end of daylight savings times are being changed in 2007. Daylight savings time will now start on March 11, 2007 (rather than early April) and will end on November 4, 2007 (rather than late October). Canada has also decided to follow the same schedule." |
| 16:35.16 | SubWolf | I wish I hadn't got stuck with Verizon for another two years, CDMA only. :( |
| 16:35.22 | jjazz | I really only use NY Time, so all the DST stuff is irrelevant. When I schedule meetings and calls internationally, I just say NY Time and people figure it out for themselves. |
| 16:35.36 | SubWolf | Aye, good idea. |
| 16:37.12 | jjazz | I have a plethora of gsm phones now. None of them really meets my needs. |
| 16:37.26 | *** join/#openmoko bhima (n=gf2e@server1.mdsamerica.com) |
| 16:37.48 | jjazz | 3 sim cards, 4 phones, zero satisfaction. |
| 16:37.56 | *** join/#openmoko prpplague (n=dave@12.190.41.146) |
| 16:40.56 | leventhal | i know that feeling jjazz.. also disappointed in the gsm provider here |
| 16:41.16 | *** join/#openmoko sarp (n=sarp@d53h240.public.uconn.edu) |
| 16:42.07 | jjazz | I have no complaints about my provider, t-mobile. It's really the devices themselves that are lacking. Hopefully a truly open platform will be the big push that moves things forward. But the hardware is a sticking point too. The Neo's lack of a keyboard is going to be a challenge. |
| 16:42.27 | leventhal | T-Mobile is awesome compared to Rogers |
| 16:42.48 | jjazz | I don't know Rogers. |
| 16:43.50 | leventhal | I'm not too worried about the lack of keyboard. There are a few thumboards that use bluetooth. |
| 16:43.53 | jjazz | leventhal: It just means I won't be whipping it out of my pocket to write a quick email while standing on the subway. |
| 16:44.19 | leventhal | true.. even clipping the thumbboard is annoying |
| 16:44.27 | jjazz | leventhal: And the thumboard separate from the screen means it will make answering email while driving a pain. |
| 16:44.28 | aloril | its getting late at Taiwan |
| 16:44.55 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@195.227.105.180) |
| 16:44.59 | jjazz | aloril: It's almost 1am in Taiwan, right? What are you doing still up? |
| 16:45.27 | aloril | jjazz: I'm in Finland, not late yet, but FIC is at Taiwan ;-) |
| 16:45.37 | aloril | and I think its almost 2am there |
| 16:45.37 | leventhal | afk, lunch |
| 16:45.39 | jjazz | aloril: Are you worried that they're not getting enough sleep? |
| 16:46.57 | aloril | jjazz: they are working on announcement, just commenting that its getting late so unless they will continue tomorrow morning in their local time it probably will happen soon |
| 16:47.22 | TRIsoft | off now. Hope the announcement will be there when i'm back in a few hours ;-) |
| 16:47.56 | kabturek | the announcements always worry me ;) |
| 16:48.09 | jjazz | aloril: Oh right, the big announcement. Frankly, I expect it will be disappointing. There's no way they'll give enough information to satisfy the people here. (especially because what people really want are handsets, not announcements) |
| 16:48.45 | aloril | jjazz: hehe |
| 16:49.17 | jthomas | jjazz you're right |
| 16:50.12 | jjazz | jthomas: Not that I'm not eager for some news, mind you. :) |
| 16:50.21 | jthomas | right again! |
| 16:52.04 | CM | I'm hoping that the announcement will say that only the dev-lunchbox is released now, and the official one is later. Like April 3:rd or so. |
| 16:52.35 | jthomas | what does it take to get an early release (dev release)? |
| 16:53.08 | CM | Not too much I hope, since I don't have any real dev-record to talk about. |
| 16:53.25 | jthomas | :) |
| 16:53.38 | CM | I'm hoping that you can get the dev-kid for maybe $450 or so even if you're not an "approved developer" |
| 16:53.38 | jthomas | and i have none... |
| 16:54.11 | CM | s/dev-kid/developers lunchbox/ |
| 16:54.47 | aloril | CM: that sounds good strategy |
| 16:55.11 | CM | koen: I hope you do too :-) |
| 16:56.15 | Stephmw | evenin' |
| 16:56.22 | CM | Morning |
| 16:56.32 | aloril | koen: that gave me interesting idea: submit patch, make new program or modify existing program work better -> discount |
| 16:57.20 | aloril | dunno of practicality of this idea |
| 16:58.39 | Sencer | greentux_nokia: that's a pretty nice move |
| 17:00.27 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:00.41 | stefan_schmidt | greentux_: Yourself or your company? Nice to see that Nokia is interested that much in Linux on smartphones. |
| 17:00.50 | stefan_schmidt | sigh |
| 17:01.01 | stefan_schmidt | greentux_nokia: Yourself or your company? Nice to see that Nokia is interested that much in Linux on smartphones. |
| 17:01.04 | Stephmw | stefan_schmidt: I wish the interest went further into their other platforms |
| 17:01.12 | Stephmw | stefan_schmidt: not just the smart stuff |
| 17:01.20 | greentux_nokia | No i irc with nokia |
| 17:01.28 | Stephmw | kinky |
| 17:01.51 | greentux_nokia | Nokia 6630 btw |
| 17:01.58 | stefan_schmidt | Stephmw: I heardx rumors about many nokia phones running linux in the lab already. |
| 17:02.04 | Matt_PI | I know the devepers of Joost are interested in developing linux clients for mobiles |
| 17:02.18 | stefan_schmidt | greentux_nokia: Ah, ok. :) |
| 17:02.18 | Matt_PI | www.joost.com |
| 17:02.26 | Stephmw | stefan_schmidt: I'd love to hear more about those - any particular Series? |
| 17:02.51 | stefan_schmidt | Stephmw: Only rumors. Sorry. /me know nobody at nokia labs. |
| 17:03.39 | stefan_schmidt | greentux_nokia: I was confused about the realname. Takes some time before I got it right. |
| 17:03.57 | stefan_schmidt | took, even |
| 17:04.12 | CM | xkr47: Muine screenshot: http://muine-player.org/wiki/Image:CMMainPageScreenshot.png |
| 17:04.35 | jjazz | greentux_nokia: How do you type on that thing? |
| 17:05.00 | aloril | I wonder that if you developed enough stuff for v1, would one get v2 for free or with nice discount |
| 17:05.49 | jjazz | aloril: Handsets are cheap compared to developer hours. If FIC can pay for significant improvements in handsets, believe me they will. |
| 17:06.51 | *** join/#openmoko johnny67 (n=johnny67@nvg1-01.yvr.sxip.com) |
| 17:07.10 | greentux_nokia | Jjazz with t9 |
| 17:07.54 | *** join/#openmoko ozamosi (n=ozamosi@fintroll.flukkost.nu) |
| 17:08.17 | jjazz | greentux_nokia: Ah. I don't text message much. The other day, I tried to send an angry text message and was thwarted because t9 on my phone doesn't know the word "venemous". |
| 17:08.27 | jjazz | venomous, rather |
| 17:10.04 | greentux_nokia | Only for reading the channel |
| 17:10.57 | *** join/#openmoko noiddd (n=ptpChat@166.184.3.117) |
| 17:11.04 | noiddd | lo |
| 17:11.41 | noiddd | on net from doctors office. not on my deathbed so any news on the announcement?? :) |
| 17:12.25 | noiddd | msg nickserv identify wibbleme |
| 17:13.00 | noiddd | thank crunchie for typos |
| 17:13.31 | *** part/#openmoko noiddd (n=ptpChat@166.184.3.117) |
| 17:19.13 | *** join/#openmoko sunbear (n=sunbear1@62.154.197.170) |
| 17:20.34 | *** join/#openmoko Sencer (i=Sencer@gateway/tor/x-3012b19ba4300e7c) |
| 17:20.37 | *** join/#openmoko cyphase (n=cyphase@c-71-202-49-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 17:23.10 | Stephmw | jjazz: most T9 implementations these days are adaptive thankfully |
| 17:23.47 | bhima | Predictive text tends to hav eone problem: if you mis-spell a word, or mis-type it early on, it fails. |
| 17:23.54 | jjazz | Stephmw: I was on an old handset. Not adaptive, and barely functional for messaging. |
| 17:24.52 | *** join/#openmoko Matt_PI_ (n=chatzill@209.198.66.141) |
| 17:27.33 | noidd | predictive text sucks when you speak more than one language |
| 17:27.35 | *** part/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 17:27.35 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 17:27.48 | Stephmw | noidd: agreed... although it eventually learns both |
| 17:28.42 | noidd | well.. since my other language is sign language predictive text isnt goinh to help. |
| 17:29.10 | greentux_nokia | Sorry for using t9 :-) |
| 17:30.01 | noidd | im ircing over a screen session via treo ssh |
| 17:30.15 | noidd | its unbearably slow per character |
| 17:30.35 | jjazz | noidd: What do you use for ssh? And how do you do cntrl-a? |
| 17:30.45 | noidd | im hoping that thats due to the application not the cingular network |
| 17:30.52 | noidd | pssh |
| 17:31.14 | noidd | and there is a ctrl button on the screen |
| 17:31.35 | jjazz | Ah. Interesting. I thought the alt button might be used. |
| 17:31.43 | jjazz | But I guess that doesn't get passed to the app. |
| 17:31.57 | noidd | what would you use alt for?? |
| 17:32.05 | jjazz | Alt-A instead of Cntrl-A |
| 17:42.54 | *** join/#openmoko noiddd (n=ptpChat@166.184.5.68) |
| 17:43.03 | noiddd | hmm |
| 17:43.11 | noiddd | testing an irc client |
| 17:43.24 | noiddd | ptpchat of all things. |
| 17:44.10 | noiddd | since I see no replies I'm assuming its borked |
| 17:45.06 | vargr | test reply |
| 17:45.10 | vargr | borked? |
| 17:45.14 | *** join/#openmoko aloril2 (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 17:45.18 | noiddd | rock - thanks |
| 17:45.47 | noiddd | borked is faux swedish for broken or a typo :) |
| 17:46.24 | noiddd | I wonder what time it is in .tw |
| 17:46.27 | aloril2 | this testing inflates nick counts ;-) |
| 17:47.15 | noiddd | accidental I promise. |
| 17:47.19 | *** join/#openmoko MindCrusher (n=chatzill@82.76.176.152) |
| 17:47.23 | MindCrusher | join ubunu |
| 17:50.44 | kabturek | ubuntu christian edition , satan edition , now ubunu ? man the family is growing fast ;) |
| 17:51.45 | noiddd | heh |
| 17:51.56 | noiddd | gotta go - driving. |
| 17:52.43 | |Melkman| | has there been an annoucement yet ? |
| 17:53.16 | kabturek | not |
| 17:53.31 | pike_ | |Melkman|: first quarter 2008 |
| 17:53.32 | kabturek | nothing yet :) |
| 17:53.39 | aloril | not yet, should be in <12.2h |
| 17:54.04 | |Melkman| | hehe. gues it realy will be an other friday :-) |
| 17:54.18 | aloril | |Melkman|: see topic |
| 17:54.43 | *** join/#openmoko FirefighterBlu3 (n=david@virtual-fw1.bcrtfl01.us.wh.verio.net) |
| 17:58.31 | vargr | /topic |
| 17:58.58 | *** part/#openmoko vargr (n=vargr@dsl092-109-027.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
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| 18:00.01 | aloril | about 10 more and we pass ##windows : http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/?net=freenode&query=&num=40 |
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| 18:14.59 | ciastek | hello! has the roadmap been already annouced?a |
| 18:15.10 | Zer0Her0_ | yes, but we're not telling you |
| 18:15.13 | sarp | No ;_; |
| 18:15.13 | koen | hehe |
| 18:15.16 | skome | sorry, what is "Central Time"? US? Can this be expressed in swatch internet beat time instead? |
| 18:15.24 | sarp | -6 GMT I believe |
| 18:15.30 | ciastek | hehe, thank you all! ;] |
| 18:15.43 | Zer0Her0_ | skome: haha, yes i was wondering why they chose central time |
| 18:16.52 | xorAxAx | because sean is in the us? |
| 18:17.16 | koen | I thought sean was in .tw now |
| 18:18.00 | aloril | announcement in < 11.8h (according to topic) |
| 18:18.11 | aloril | its over 3am in Taiwan |
| 18:18.12 | vargr | well, that narrows it |
| 18:19.04 | skome | What time did mickey chime in the other day to announce this announcement? Perhaps he appear at the same time? |
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| 18:19.31 | skome | And if he sees his shadow, we'll have another 6 weeks of winter |
| 18:20.10 | skome | How's the wind in Europe, btw? 115kph? Sounds unfun. |
| 18:21.00 | xorAxAx | kph? |
| 18:21.01 | kabturek | yeah i sow pictures of people in uk flying :) |
| 18:21.35 | xorAxAx | in germany, we had peaks of 200 km/h |
| 18:21.46 | aloril | skome: mickey changed topic about 2h ago |
| 18:22.14 | benJIman | It's been ok here |
| 18:22.49 | benJIman | kabturek: pft, it's only been slightly gusty, not enough to get excited about |
| 18:23.00 | kabturek | http://serwisy.gazeta.pl/swiat/51,34180,3858726.html?i=0 |
| 18:23.16 | kabturek | "slightly" ;) |
| 18:23.45 | benJIman | kabturek: blatently fake |
| 18:24.47 | benJIman | Also it's been windier in Europe mainland, nothing much here, just enough to knock over a few trees, bring the fragile British transport infrastructure to a standstill etc |
| 18:24.49 | ciastek | yeah.. matrix's dejavu :> |
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| 18:38.25 | spikebik1 | hrmpf |
| 18:38.29 | spikebik1 | getting late central time |
| 18:42.42 | SubWolf | Hee |
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| 18:45.47 | jjazz | You people are like Gogo and Didi. Any minute one you is going to come stumbling in from stage left, having been beaten in a ditch. |
| 18:45.58 | jjazz | s/one you/one of you/ |
| 18:46.44 | Zer0Her0_ | is apt a bot? |
| 18:47.14 | jjazz | yes |
| 18:47.16 | Lorphos | apt, are you a bot? |
| 18:47.33 | Lorphos | I prefer purl :) |
| 18:47.43 | spikebik1 | I like supy |
| 18:47.48 | Zer0Her0_ | what kind is he? |
| 18:48.09 | Lorphos | the kind that states the obvious, it seems |
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| 18:48.41 | jjazz | Zer0Her0_: The kind that spits fire, grows to 50 stories tall, and ronks all over Tokyo. Please don't antagonize the bot. |
| 18:48.53 | Zer0Her0_ | hehe, it's interesting, i've never seen a bot do a s// for a statement before like that |
| 18:49.01 | Zer0Her0_ | it's simple but effective |
| 18:49.06 | Lorphos | i wonder if you can get it to execute code |
| 18:49.16 | Lorphos | s/code/date()/e |
| 18:51.05 | Lorphos | s/get/force/ |
| 18:51.20 | Lorphos | i say foo |
| 18:51.22 | Lorphos | s/foo/bar/ |
| 18:51.49 | Lorphos | since noone is talking, I'll play with apt |
| 18:51.58 | Lorphos | s/play/`date`/ |
| 18:51.59 | leventhal | s/ounds/fun/ |
| 18:52.11 | Zer0Her0_ | hehe |
| 18:52.17 | Lorphos | foo"bar |
| 18:52.21 | Lorphos | s/"/'/ |
| 18:52.27 | leventhal | s/s/ounds/fun/k/ |
| 18:52.55 | Lorphos | it's a hot phone! |
| 18:52.59 | Lorphos | s|hot|steaming| |
| 18:53.06 | buz | http://blogs.qtdeveloper.net/archives/2007/01/19/webkit-on-embedded/ |
| 18:53.18 | buz | i wonder if that would be an option for the neo |
| 18:53.20 | Lorphos | s/eam/\/omp/ |
| 18:53.36 | Lorphos | steaming |
| 18:53.45 | Lorphos | s/eam/\/omp/ |
| 18:54.47 | Lorphos | buz: why not.. |
| 18:54.54 | Lorphos | s/./?/ |
| 18:55.02 | Lorphos | apt: no I didn't :-P |
| 18:55.04 | buz | because it uses gtk predominantly |
| 18:55.14 | Lorphos | well.. you have the freedom to change it |
| 18:55.20 | Lorphos | it will be work of course |
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| 18:55.44 | Lorphos | foo*bar |
| 18:55.46 | Lorphos | s/*/+/ |
| 18:56.06 | Lorphos | I think apt doesn't even grok regexen |
| 18:56.30 | Lorphos | s/xe[Nn]/xps/ |
| 18:56.34 | Lorphos | see? |
| 18:57.04 | skome | maybe for it's own protection. Doesn't want to get itself banned if someone tricks into being naughty |
| 18:57.15 | Lorphos | yep |
| 19:00.46 | buz | webkit is probably the fastest engine besides opera |
| 19:01.22 | buz | (then again chances are the opera guys will release a version for neo, they have always been quite forthcoming with releases for "obscure" opensource platforms" |
| 19:01.46 | spikebik1 | buz true.... if paid. |
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| 19:02.00 | buz | mhh sometimes it's even free |
| 19:02.11 | spikebik1 | there's a mini-opera for java afaik |
| 19:02.13 | buz | not sure exactly how opera does define what you will have to pay for and what not |
| 19:02.21 | buz | spikebik1: that would require java first |
| 19:02.28 | buz | (it's quite impressive, btw) |
| 19:02.29 | spikebik1 | right |
| 19:02.41 | spikebik1 | sun just gpl's the relevent jvm right? |
| 19:02.45 | spikebik1 | gpl'd |
| 19:04.05 | cjb | they did, but I dunno if we have the JRE too yet. |
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| 19:06.44 | buz | even if J2ME is gpl, someone wil still have to port it to neo |
| 19:07.36 | *** join/#openmoko pergamon (n=pergamon@andromeda.dapyr.net) |
| 19:07.42 | XorA|gone | buz: luckilly sun use solaris internally :-) |
| 19:07.54 | buz | ? |
| 19:08.00 | pergamon | greetings! |
| 19:08.37 | XorA|gone | buz: unix->linux port should consist of patch up the makefile and type make |
| 19:08.55 | pergamon | anyone know what time the announcement is supposed to happen? |
| 19:09.52 | Lorphos | in the next 10 hours or so |
| 19:09.59 | buz | except for the fact that i doubt that the J2ME graphics stuff is implemented against x11? |
| 19:10.05 | XorA|gone | pergamon: 23:59 Hawain time at last hearing :-) |
| 19:10.20 | XorA|gone | buz: luckilly there is an x11 version for them to test with |
| 19:10.27 | seaLne | at least its still earth time :) |
| 19:10.34 | Lorphos | did mickey state wether or not he already checked it? |
| 19:10.36 | xkr47 | buz, one would think there's such a thing since arm processors hava java instructions and all :) |
| 19:10.43 | XorA|gone | buz: or was last time I looked at that area |
| 19:10.44 | pergamon | seriously? |
| 19:10.56 | pergamon | just "some time today", eh? |
| 19:11.09 | seaLne | yep |
| 19:11.28 | xkr47 | they are finalizing the announcement as we speak |
| 19:11.29 | buz | jazelle is not in the s3c2410 for all i know |
| 19:11.38 | koen | it isn't |
| 19:11.39 | xkr47 | or it's maybe in the review phase already |
| 19:12.00 | koen | s3c2410 is an arm920t core, not arm926-ejs |
| 19:12.06 | pergamon | noticed the "Central Time" in the channel topic, and figured that meant there was perhaps an actual TIME not just a timezone. but i suppose that does give a limit though. |
| 19:12.07 | pergamon | thanks! |
| 19:12.14 | skome | <Lorphos> s/foo/bar/ |
| 19:12.14 | skome | <apt> Lorphos meant: i say bar |
| 19:12.15 | XorA|gone | koen: I wonder if we should add that to topic :-) |
| 19:12.54 | koen | XorA|gone: consider it a turing test :) |
| 19:12.54 | skome | eh? Sorry |
| 19:12.54 | XorA|gone | koen: /topic s3c2410 is armv4t deal with it |
| 19:13.05 | XorA|gone | and not fast enough to play divx either |
| 19:13.05 | xkr47 | koen, ok sorry |
| 19:13.35 | xkr47 | buz too :) |
| 19:14.00 | koen | and jazelle still isn't supported in linux |
| 19:14.06 | xkr47 | oh, it isn't ? |
| 19:14.14 | xkr47 | so it requires kernel support ? |
| 19:15.34 | xkr47 | nice |
| 19:15.57 | xorAxAx | XorA|gone: arm? |
| 19:16.15 | XorA|gone | xorAxAx: Infineon chip, cant remeber which CPU familly |
| 19:16.28 | leventhal | Wow.. cool |
| 19:16.39 | XorA|gone | xorAxAx: SLE88 |
| 19:17.07 | xorAxAx | ah |
| 19:19.38 | spikebik1 | I'm hoping 5PM central time is worst case... |
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| 19:52.04 | noidd | worst case is a post-it note that says "Just Kidding" |
| 19:52.59 | pergamon | hahaha |
| 19:53.43 | spikebik1 | "just kidding" this was just marketing research for the iPhone, thanks for the ideas". |
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| 19:54.25 | leventhal | i'd be roffling if that happened |
| 19:54.29 | vargr | then they obviously didn't listen to what we said about wanting it to be OPEN |
| 19:55.17 | spikebik1 | apple will do what they think will make them the most money |
| 19:55.26 | spikebik1 | if the market demands java apple will do it |
| 19:55.49 | vargr | Yeah, I bet they wise up eventually. |
| 19:55.58 | vargr | Just wait'll they see the success of the Neo! |
| 19:56.08 | ciastek | :D |
| 19:56.21 | ciastek | there would be no room for iphone anymore! ;) |
| 19:56.27 | pergamon | perhaps. i bet that they want to, but that the iPhone scares the crap out of the carriers |
| 19:56.38 | pergamon | ...as they are |
| 19:56.39 | spikebik1 | perg why? |
| 19:56.42 | vargr | You think Cingular insisted on keeping it closed? |
| 19:56.44 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 19:56.47 | pergamon | my guess |
| 19:56.47 | *** join/#openmoko aloril2_ (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 19:57.13 | spikebik1 | it's a bandwidth intensive phone that will attract very profitable customers |
| 19:57.52 | pergamon | when you have real apps on there, people are going to start to really use their bandwidth, and the software is going to have to be good enough to hide latency, coverage, bandwidth, and other limitations |
| 19:58.25 | vargr | Interesting point. |
| 19:58.40 | vargr | I thought maybe it was just because it may reduce the number of services they'll be able to charge for |
| 19:58.41 | pergamon | but yes, on the other hand, if their networks really can take it then they might be able to milk customers for the bandwidth |
| 19:58.44 | vargr | if people can do them for free. |
| 19:59.07 | pergamon | there's that too |
| 19:59.21 | vargr | Oh well, we'll win in the end. |
| 19:59.21 | |Melkman| | pergamon: I also think the carriers don't like an open phone because it is a threat to their SMS income. |
| 20:00.15 | |Melkman| | a gprs IM client that is efficient with bandwidth shouldn't be a problem and can replace SMS |
| 20:00.48 | vargr | Yeah, I guess they'll need to kiss that business model good-bye sooner or later - |
| 20:00.49 | pergamon | yup, that too, though at the same time i'd think that SMS income will go up. there are still a lot of phones out there with only SMS support, and it will be so much easier to send SMSs than on a traditional phone keyboard. |
| 20:01.06 | vargr | probably a LOT sooner than they'd like to think! |
| 20:01.22 | |Melkman| | hmm, I'll start a GPRS to SMS gateway :-) |
| 20:01.42 | |Melkman| | buy quantity SMS in a give a discount :-) |
| 20:03.06 | |Melkman| | If you do that with a few thousand users you will be able to get great discounts on volume SMS |
| 20:03.16 | pergamon | i bet the carriers really are worried about security though. phone companies are nothing if not paranoid about security. |
| 20:03.33 | spikebik1 | open doesn't have much to do with security |
| 20:04.00 | pergamon | imagine an iphone worm, calling everyone in your phone book (maybe at the same time if that'll support it). now that's some bandwidth problems. |
| 20:04.04 | spikebik1 | just because you can load a cute app on a phone doesn't mean you can take over the GSM network and forge calls and stuff |
| 20:04.27 | kabturek | i dont think the im client is a treat to sms , at least not on the actual stage - all phones would have to have the same im app ... etc using the phone to talk to existing im networks isnt a treat to sms |
| 20:04.30 | |Melkman| | pergamon: a carrier will love that. Great income |
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| 20:05.06 | pergamon | oh i agree, but they probably see obscurity (or making it harder to access their network) as another layer of security |
| 20:05.31 | parag0n | so_solid_moo_, no roadmap yet? |
| 20:05.36 | parag0n | uh |
| 20:05.44 | pergamon | (make that 'harder to access their network with custom code') |
| 20:05.48 | parag0n | -_solid_moo |
| 20:06.00 | parag0n | stupid tab-complete |
| 20:06.00 | pergamon | they certainly want people using their networks ;) |
| 20:06.07 | |Melkman| | pergamon: but since the GSM standard is know everybody can try to hack in to their networks already. |
| 20:06.38 | pergamon | i suppose that's true |
| 20:07.18 | |Melkman| | oh wait that was '99 |
| 20:09.08 | |Melkman| | '97 was HIP |
| 20:09.39 | MindCrusher | when will the comunication be |
| 20:09.45 | MindCrusher | central time but at what hour? |
| 20:09.59 | pergamon | heh. join the (guessing) club |
| 20:10.10 | koen | MindCrusher: 23:59:59 |
| 20:10.29 | koen | and them using a slow mailserver that takes 3 days to deliver it |
| 20:11.02 | MindCrusher | 23:59 GMT or central (american) time |
| 20:11.11 | kabturek | koen: not tu optimistic ,are you? ;D |
| 20:11.22 | kabturek | s/tu/too |
| 20:11.38 | pergamon | they could simplifiy their roadmap: "Give pergamon a Neo today." |
| 20:11.46 | kabturek | s/tu/too/ |
| 20:11.50 | kabturek | hehe |
| 20:12.36 | TRIsoft | pergamon: Neo accidentaly took the red pill. Bad for pergamon :D |
| 20:13.12 | pergamon | shazbot |
| 20:14.56 | koen | "the earlier you screw up, the more time you have to fix it" |
| 20:18.52 | noidd | haha |
| 20:18.57 | noidd | not sure that's true koen |
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| 20:19.21 | koen | noidd: I like to mention that at the start of a new project |
| 20:19.27 | koen | and watch people freak out |
| 20:20.02 | kabturek | lol |
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| 20:22.26 | Matt_PI | Hint hint |
| 20:28.50 | thedaniel | hey! the topic changed! the announcement is really going to happen! |
| 20:29.19 | Zer0Her0_ | the announcement is...there will be an announcement at a later date... |
| 20:30.53 | xkr47 | :) |
| 20:31.33 | pergamon | hooray! |
| 20:31.34 | pergamon | hope! |
| 20:31.37 | xorAxAx | there will be an announcement on a random friday in this year! |
| 20:31.46 | xkr47 | we hope! |
| 20:31.50 | xorAxAx | and it shall be before you will be able to buy the iphone! |
| 20:32.07 | xkr47 | even if that means you will never be able to |
| 20:32.12 | pergamon | wait, 'later' as in 'later today' or 'later than today'? |
| 20:32.33 | xkr47 | not before |
| 20:34.36 | ciastek | so we have to wait only 24h? |
| 20:34.37 | aloril2_ | <9.5h |
| 20:35.46 | greentux_ | "today" where in the world... I think saturday ... |
| 20:36.43 | TRIsoft | and then they release a roadmap with a big red "X" where the FIC office is :-D |
| 20:37.00 | xorAxAx | LOL |
| 20:38.45 | TRIsoft | Don't worry |
| 20:40.37 | koen | be happy :) |
| 20:40.43 | TRIsoft | Yep |
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| 20:44.44 | boorad | hi, anyone know what US carriers I could use with a Neo1973? |
| 20:45.03 | bhima | National: TMobile and Cingular. |
| 20:45.08 | bhima | Local: god knows how many. |
| 20:45.18 | boorad | bhima: ty |
| 20:45.18 | TRIsoft | I guess every carrier with a GSM network. Like T-Mobile |
| 20:45.38 | bhima | There are many, many small, local carriers. |
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| 20:45.50 | bhima | (The Neo1973 is quad band, right?) |
| 20:45.52 | boorad | has anyone been in here talking about getting D apps to compile to ARM yet? |
| 20:47.13 | parag0n | bhima, yes |
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| 20:47.13 | pergamon | wonder if it'll work in india. probably? |
| 20:47.13 | bhima | It won't work in South Korea or Japan. I don't know if there are any other countries with cellphones where it _won't_ work. |
| 20:47.26 | boorad | how can I get the SDK? Is it available? |
| 20:48.18 | pergamon | is that because they're [W]CDMA, or different GSM bands than the Neo supports? |
| 20:48.31 | bhima | The Neo supports every GSM band there is. |
| 20:48.41 | *** join/#openmoko OpenStandards (n=vir@ACBD0BC0.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:48.58 | bhima | South Korea is primarily CDMA of some form, I think Japan is too. Both of them are very proprietary. |
| 20:49.00 | Matt_PI | CDMA yick |
| 20:49.05 | pergamon | that's what i thought. |
| 20:49.14 | bhima | CDMA is a very nifty protocol. |
| 20:49.26 | bhima | ANything that is claimed to violate information theory must be sexy. |
| 20:49.34 | pergamon | i think Iraq is CDMA too ;) |
| 20:49.56 | Matt_PI | thats becuse the American rebuilt thier network |
| 20:49.59 | boorad | SDK? |
| 20:50.00 | greentux_ | bhima: iraq has also no gsm |
| 20:50.07 | bhima | I heard some disputes about Iraq's coverage. IIRC, somebody installed a GSM network without asking at one point. |
| 20:50.39 | greentux_ | north korea has no network |
| 20:50.44 | Matt_PI | the GIs use wireless where they can |
| 20:51.11 | pergamon | haha. that's awesome. yeah, i remember the coverage about us forcing CDMA in iraq |
| 20:51.32 | bhima | http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_iq.shtml |
| 20:51.33 | pergamon | north korea uses "CB" and "short wave" |
| 20:52.08 | TRIsoft | I thought north korea uses bongo drums ?? ;-) |
| 20:52.12 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 20:52.21 | Matt_PI | theres whole 802.11 wirleless networks in iraq set up by soldiers |
| 20:52.45 | Matt_PI | all illeagly sharing music LOL |
| 20:52.57 | leventhal | heh.. the copyright law in iraq is scary |
| 20:53.01 | leventhal | worse than DMCA |
| 20:53.04 | xkr47 | robtaylor, ping |
| 20:53.28 | leventhal | Chief executive for the Recording Industry Association of America, Hilary Rosen, is helping draft copyright legislation for the New Iraq, according to investigative journalist Gregory Palast. |
| 20:53.33 | leventhal | "Who's really going to win this war? It looks like Madonna," Palast told Democracy Now radio. |
| 20:53.59 | Matt_PI | they want them to sign WIPO I bet |
| 20:54.18 | xkr47 | ugh.. the N800 has a race condition that sometimes causes the display to _DIE_ during reboot |
| 20:54.18 | Matt_PI | no WIPO no UN help |
| 20:54.32 | xkr47 | my friend's screen just died 10 secs ago :O |
| 20:54.45 | xkr47 | luckily it's known and they replace the device for free :P |
| 20:55.08 | xkr47 | sorry :) |
| 20:55.13 | pergamon | whoa |
| 20:55.50 | *** join/#openmoko _rob_ (n=rob@AC9ED330.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:55.56 | noidd | die as in permenant? |
| 20:56.03 | *** join/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R23b3.r.pppool.de) |
| 20:56.08 | xkr47 | yes :P |
| 20:56.54 | xkr47 | good night :) |
| 20:57.07 | greentux_ | 16 left for 200... call your friends! |
| 20:57.30 | pergamon | heh. when you'd try to set a high resolution or refresh rate for monitor in BeOS, a popup dialog would warn you that it might damage the monitor. the dialog box's options were either "Cancel" or "Poof!" |
| 20:58.06 | pergamon | but rebooting?! |
| 20:58.20 | benJIman | What on earth is Central time? |
| 20:58.21 | noidd | 16 left for 200 what? |
| 20:58.24 | benJIman | Central what, european time? |
| 20:58.31 | pergamon | probably CST |
| 20:58.31 | leventhal | noidd: 200 usersin this channel |
| 20:58.52 | noidd | ah, there was me thinking there was a pre-order for developers at $200 per unit ;-p |
| 20:58.52 | benJIman | Why can't people use a real timezone, or offset from GMT. |
| 20:59.08 | leventhal | -6 GMT |
| 20:59.14 | TRIsoft | For working worldwide, Zulu time (GMT) is OK |
| 20:59.31 | pergamon | http://time.gov/timezone.cgi?Central/d/-6/java |
| 20:59.34 | TRIsoft | And this means, they've 3 hours left :D |
| 20:59.37 | greentux_ | noidd: 200 user in that channel |
| 20:59.38 | leventhal | giving an actual time would be nice too |
| 21:00.07 | xkr47 | Fri Jan 19 21:00:01 CST 2007 |
| 21:00.18 | xkr47 | TZ=CST date |
| 21:00.30 | benJIman | "Central Time"could be any of about 5 timezones |
| 21:00.33 | xkr47 | (tcsh users add env in front) |
| 21:00.40 | boorad | so do people have a SDK and are developing now, or is everyone waiting for the hardware to be available? |
| 21:01.45 | leventhal | xkr: the announcement is at 21h CST? ok.. thanks |
| 21:01.48 | leventhal | I'll probably be drunk by then |
| 21:02.06 | boorad | heh |
| 21:02.28 | pergamon | "central FIC time" |
| 21:02.46 | xkr47 | leventhal, no, 21 CST is now |
| 21:02.49 | leventhal | oh |
| 21:02.54 | pergamon | FIC standard time |
| 21:03.13 | xkr47 | my fic will only report seconds since epoch, as that is the only portable :) |
| 21:03.17 | leventhal | .. huh? I thought it was 1500 CST |
| 21:03.19 | xkr47 | no, just kidding |
| 21:03.24 | leventhal | and 2100 GMT |
| 21:03.36 | xkr47 | not according to my linux |
| 21:03.47 | leventhal | your linux is broked |
| 21:03.56 | sarp | If it's Central US it's definitely 1500.. |
| 21:04.22 | thedaniel | 21 CST is NOT now |
| 21:04.24 | thedaniel | yeah |
| 21:04.27 | thedaniel | sarp beat me |
| 21:04.45 | boorad | MDK: have you had any more success with ARM and GDC? |
| 21:05.53 | xkr47 | well in that case CST is not central US time |
| 21:05.54 | xkr47 | :P |
| 21:06.16 | xkr47 | hmmm |
| 21:06.20 | xkr47 | http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/usa/central-time/ |
| 21:06.27 | xkr47 | it says 15:06! |
| 21:06.42 | xkr47 | what's wrong with my linux !! ;( |
| 21:06.51 | leventhal | Fri Jan 19 16:06:51 EST 2007 |
| 21:06.55 | leventhal | minus one hour for CST |
| 21:07.03 | pergamon | yup. i'm in EST, and it is 16:06 here, so CST (US) is 15:06 |
| 21:07.17 | leventhal | xkr is synced to GMT but it thinks it's CST.. heh |
| 21:07.24 | parag0n | why bother giving a timezone if they're not going to give a time? |
| 21:07.26 | pergamon | I wonder if the Neo will have a bloody world clock? ;) |
| 21:07.41 | pergamon | parag0n: outer bounds |
| 21:07.56 | xkr47 | I just thought - if it was going to happen according to CST, I might as well inform what it is right now |
| 21:07.57 | parag0n | so close of business, Central? |
| 21:07.59 | xkr47 | but then it was wrong |
| 21:08.48 | koen | so the deadline would be like 7 in the morning for me |
| 21:09.01 | xkr47 | me too |
| 21:09.06 | xkr47 | no wait, 8 |
| 21:09.09 | xkr47 | so much bettr |
| 21:09.10 | xkr47 | :) |
| 21:09.10 | koen | at which point I'll be asleep :) |
| 21:11.28 | leventhal | i'll be watching Snakes on a Plane with a bunch of guys |
| 21:11.34 | leventhal | and i don't really want to so I'll be drinking heavily |
| 21:12.06 | xkr47 | :) |
| 21:12.18 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:12.24 | leventhal | why does everything Samuel L Jackson do have to be revered by the young geek community |
| 21:12.57 | vargr | like that last star wars movie? |
| 21:12.58 | leventhal | eh.. notable exception |
| 21:13.06 | leventhal | and Afro Ninja |
| 21:13.22 | leventhal | i expected that to be huge. afro, ninja.. anime.. post apocalyptic dystopia. |
| 21:13.38 | Matt_PI | Im only like Samuel Jackson in Tarantino Films |
| 21:13.47 | bhima | I read a funny explanation of why Mecca should be used instead of Greenwich for the meridian. |
| 21:14.07 | kabturek | why oh why do i have to wait so looong :) |
| 21:14.51 | leventhal | bhima: It's going to be politically incorrect, isn't it.. |
| 21:15.33 | bhima | http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=72413 |
| 21:15.43 | bhima | It's not politically incorrect, it's just incoherent. |
| 21:16.13 | Sencer | bhima: you gotta watch out for that magnetism... |
| 21:16.37 | bhima | Apparently, using greenwich results in their being a time difference in the northern and southern hemispheres. |
| 21:22.23 | Tv | I only like Samuel Jackson when his lines include "motherfucker". |
| 21:22.27 | Tv | All of them. |
| 21:22.51 | leventhal | yup |
| 21:23.09 | *** join/#openmoko solars (n=Johnny@chello080109141057.tirol.surfer.at) |
| 21:23.32 | leventhal | samuel l jackson was in toronto for a film festival once |
| 21:23.41 | *** join/#openmoko vargr_ (n=vargr_@dsl092-109-027.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 21:23.42 | leventhal | a buddy of mine at a bar thought he recognized him but wasn't sure, turned away |
| 21:23.55 | leventhal | then a few minutes later he heard someone shout... "because I'm SAMUEL L FUCKING JACKSON" |
| 21:24.00 | leventhal | and then got a free beer |
| 21:24.21 | leventhal | people clapped |
| 21:24.22 | leventhal | wish i saw it |
| 21:24.35 | *** part/#openmoko solars (n=Johnny@chello080109141057.tirol.surfer.at) |
| 21:24.50 | bhima | I watched the first half of snakes on a plane last night. |
| 21:24.54 | bhima | terrible movie. |
| 21:24.56 | leventhal | oh yeah |
| 21:25.02 | leventhal | which is why they stuck his famous line at the end |
| 21:25.14 | leventhal | and why i'm showing up to the party late and going right to the whisky |
| 21:25.15 | bhima | Don't reveal any spoilers. |
| 21:25.28 | leventhal | snakes bite snakes |
| 21:25.47 | bhima | I haven't gotten to that part yet. |
| 21:27.43 | *** join/#openmoko Mortimus|away (n=mortimus@pool-71-250-104-223.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 21:28.44 | Sencer | marc, kannst du mal bitte gerade testen, ob du in vlc diesen netzwerkstream öffnen kannst: ftp://ftp.stw-bonn.de/pub/23C3/video/23C3-1634-en-how_to_squeeze_more_performance_out_of_your_wifi.m4v |
| 21:28.56 | Tv | I still prefer to refer to that film as "Snakes on a motherfucking plane" |
| 21:29.00 | Sencer | ignore, wrong channel, sorry |
| 21:29.09 | TRIsoft | Sencer: Aha |
| 21:30.33 | Mortimus|away | how much is the openmoko projected to be |
| 21:31.03 | comicinker | hello everybody! are there data-sheets for the open-moko controller available? |
| 21:31.15 | comicinker | I mean for the processor |
| 21:32.16 | koen | comicinker: google for s3c2410 |
| 21:33.23 | ciastek | have a nice waiting guy. goodnight (in UGT ;) ) |
| 21:34.04 | XorA | comicinker: data sheets are easy to find as koen said |
| 21:34.13 | comicinker | why not |
| 21:34.22 | comicinker | if you know the processors name |
| 21:34.34 | parag0n | Mortimus|away, $350 USD |
| 21:34.43 | Mortimus|away | i would have to say this looks better than trolltechs greenphone |
| 21:34.46 | Mortimus|away | thanks |
| 21:34.51 | koen | http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html lists the cpu used |
| 21:34.57 | koen | it's not that hard to find |
| 21:35.01 | benJIman | Price looks better. |
| 21:35.08 | koen | openmoko.com has a grand total of *2* pages |
| 21:35.16 | mortimus | defiantly |
| 21:36.02 | mortimus | how would i get a U.S. network to register the phone is my question for the future |
| 21:36.18 | bhima | mortimus: By plugging in your SIM card...? |
| 21:36.19 | jjazz | mortimus: If you have t-mobile or cingular, just put your sim in the phone |
| 21:36.23 | parag0n | get GSM sim, insert sim into phone |
| 21:36.24 | *** join/#openmoko longshot (n=gl@CPE-61-9-147-123.static.vic.bigpond.net.au) |
| 21:36.24 | comicinker | what compilers are used for it? the gcc? |
| 21:36.28 | TRIsoft | simply get a sim card of t-mobile, insert, and have fun |
| 21:36.38 | jjazz | mortimus: If you don't have a gsm carrier, sign up with one, plug in your sim and you're good. |
| 21:36.39 | parag0n | comicinker, yep |
| 21:36.42 | comicinker | wow |
| 21:37.06 | bhima | The Greenphone looks kinda nice. |
| 21:37.15 | comicinker | I want to do something for it |
| 21:37.20 | Matt_PI | bye bye iphone http://www.lfstyl.com/blog/2007/1/19/ipod-phone-myblue-sweet.html |
| 21:37.35 | TRIsoft | yes, but it is soooo, ... green ;-) |
| 21:37.44 | mortimus | nice looks like i have to wait till march so i can cancel verizon without charges |
| 21:37.54 | mortimus | and twice the price |
| 21:38.12 | bhima | Matt_PI: People think that will have a noticeable impact on iPod sales? |
| 21:38.16 | mortimus | only for the gnu kit which i hope they do not cripple |
| 21:38.18 | bhima | s/iPod/iPHone/ |
| 21:38.33 | comicinker | I never coded with linux tools (Well, never really serious) but I'm intrested in programming stuff for openmoko |
| 21:38.36 | bhima | s/iPHone/iPhone/ |
| 21:39.07 | comicinker | where is a stat point to beginn |
| 21:39.42 | jjazz | comicinker: gtk, maybe. |
| 21:39.44 | bhima | eww. greenphone doesn't support bluetooth. |
| 21:39.57 | Matt_PI | $75 and conects your bluetooth phone via bluetooth |
| 21:40.05 | Matt_PI | ooops |
| 21:40.11 | Matt_PI | to your ipod |
| 21:40.19 | mortimus | we just have to get enough publicity to the open-source world to beat iphone |
| 21:40.36 | bhima | mortimus: You need to have good apps, too... |
| 21:40.43 | mortimus | that too |
| 21:40.56 | mortimus | is this RISC as in assembly? |
| 21:40.57 | Matt_PI | joost is mostly open source and look at the publicity they are getting |
| 21:41.18 | mortimus | i signed up for joost beta |
| 21:41.31 | Matt_PI | did you get the invite yet |
| 21:41.53 | Matt_PI | if not message me and Ill send you one |
| 21:42.38 | Matt_PI | half the apache foundation is working for Joost |
| 21:42.39 | mortimus | no i did not but does it work with linux and i only have 78 KB down |
| 21:42.54 | Matt_PI | it runs under wine |
| 21:42.54 | noidd | what is joost? |
| 21:43.04 | Matt_PI | www.joost.com |
| 21:43.15 | bhima | Most smart phones have terrible UIs. And most Linux PDA UIs are worse than even WinCE. |
| 21:43.21 | mortimus | TV |
| 21:43.36 | Matt_PI | 78Kb down may be a problem |
| 21:43.37 | bhima | Though, having played with WM5 a bit recently, it's a lot worse than WM4, so I may re-evaluate that. |
| 21:43.38 | mortimus | wince is an abomination |
| 21:43.52 | mortimus | *windows CE |
| 21:44.05 | Matt_PI | Joost uses H.264 |
| 21:44.37 | mortimus | isn't that a voip protocal |
| 21:44.51 | CM | Joost is the skype-guys tv-project |
| 21:44.51 | WillySilly2 | I bet the list of people wanting to beta test is big |
| 21:44.52 | bhima | h.264 is a CODEC. |
| 21:45.04 | mortimus | ahh ok |
| 21:45.14 | mortimus | i should read more skim less |
| 21:45.45 | Matt_PI | willy ebay has invites for $15 |
| 21:45.49 | bhima | I have a Cingular 8525 phone now. |
| 21:46.15 | WillySilly2 | Matt_PI: rofl, reminds me of early in the gmail beta |
| 21:46.25 | Matt_PI | yeah its kinda like that |
| 21:46.29 | WillySilly2 | I got luck and got an invite from somebody |
| 21:46.35 | mortimus | motorola e815m (verizon) |
| 21:46.49 | sannes | mortimus: RISC as in arm I believe .. |
| 21:47.08 | Matt_PI | I havnt even bothered to email the manager I know at Joost this week |
| 21:47.20 | mortimus | ok thanks because i have worked with assembly its fun but tedious |
| 21:47.31 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 21:48.03 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081D59A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:48.17 | sannes | mortimus: assembly is in many ways just another programming language :P |
| 21:48.17 | mortimus | whats the quality of joost |
| 21:48.33 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 21:48.37 | xkr47 | koen, ping |
| 21:48.45 | mortimus | yes but you have only 20~ commands |
| 21:49.06 | koen | xkr47: pong |
| 21:49.30 | xkr47 | koen, seems pulseaudio has a non-floating-point resampler already |
| 21:49.33 | TRIsoft | ping result for koen: 13737 ms |
| 21:49.45 | koen | xkr47: cool |
| 21:49.51 | koen | xkr47: enabled by default? |
| 21:50.03 | xkr47 | koen, you just need to select it and it will bypass libsamplerate unless there's some non-trivial shit going on |
| 21:50.14 | xkr47 | I'll check how to enable it |
| 21:50.18 | xkr47 | or disable libsamplerate |
| 21:50.51 | sannes | mortimus: hm, even though there are few of them (think arm has more than 20), all programs are translated into them one way or another .. (even tough you write in highlevel languages such as C) .. |
| 21:50.56 | xkr47 | koen, if the input or output data is float then I guess it doesn't matter.. :) |
| 21:51.29 | spikebik1 | argh, no announcement |
| 21:51.41 | xkr47 | we should all have a moko now |
| 21:51.55 | xkr47 | then we could program it to make an alarm sound when mickey|away broadcasts the announcement :) |
| 21:51.55 | Matt_PI | >Joost wants to be on mobiles after they tackle the living roomand open moko is a great platoform for them becuse its mostly based on open souce code apert form the p2p networking portions |
| 21:52.05 | WillySilly2 | pulseaudio would be sweet |
| 21:52.11 | xkr47 | yeah.. |
| 21:52.16 | sannes | .. which reminds, what does moko mean? (havn't googled it yet) |
| 21:52.44 | WillySilly2 | Lennart know about the interest in PA on moko? |
| 21:52.51 | koen | Mobile Kommunication |
| 21:52.59 | koen | (sean needs a spellchecker) |
| 21:53.21 | Sencer | re |
| 21:53.45 | sannes | hehe, Sean isn't German is he? |
| 21:53.48 | Matt_PI | The K is for Hackers |
| 21:54.03 | Matt_PI | all that leet talk |
| 21:54.41 | bhima | m0k0 would be 31337. |
| 21:54.53 | greentux_ | koen: Mobile Kommunikation |
| 21:55.17 | comicinker | jjazz: nice joke |
| 21:55.51 | TRIsoft | So Sean is now known as S34n ? |
| 21:56.00 | jjazz | comicinker: ? |
| 21:56.05 | comicinker | gtk |
| 21:56.21 | jjazz | How was that a joke? |
| 21:56.25 | leventhal | no, s34n.. to be leet you may never capitalize properly |
| 21:56.32 | leventhal | s34N would be acceptable |
| 21:56.34 | comicinker | kinda |
| 21:56.35 | xkr47 | koen, it seems the default is hardcoded in src/pulsecore/core.c - look for resample_method |
| 21:56.44 | xkr47 | I'll check if it overrides that value from somewhere |
| 21:56.50 | TRIsoft | ouchy, my f4ul7 :-( |
| 21:57.07 | xkr47 | ;) |
| 21:57.59 | comicinker | I want to get familliar in programming with linux. well, the visual studio makes it quite simple for windows. but now I have the feeling I'm standing in frant of a wall |
| 21:58.12 | koen | m4 makes my eyes bleed |
| 21:58.14 | xkr47 | comicinker, climb! |
| 21:58.26 | xkr47 | comicinker, or get scared by koen's eyes and run! :) |
| 21:58.54 | greentux_ | ok, a full clock is coming in 2 minutes. another chance |
| 21:58.59 | noidd | revolutionary concept I know, but maybe they should use cpp to do their substitutes in their C code |
| 21:59.28 | mortimus | will the file system handle like linux |
| 21:59.38 | noidd | mort: it is linux so yes. |
| 21:59.39 | xkr47 | greentux_, don't make it sound like we're giving up here! |
| 22:00.08 | mortimus | this has so much potential in my mind |
| 22:01.17 | mortimus | comicinker you could try a linux livecd with development tools |
| 22:01.25 | comicinker | something like: "Progamming linux in 10 steps" would be nice ;) or just an overview, what is available, what is possible. then my next step would be to jump to the openmok |
| 22:01.25 | spikebik1 | or try eclipse |
| 22:01.43 | mortimus | eclipse is GREAT |
| 22:02.07 | greentux_ | ok is was not east europe time :) |
| 22:02.22 | mortimus | http://www.cs.umanitoba.ca/%7Eeclipse/7-EclipseCDT.pdf |
| 22:02.23 | xkr47 | comicinker, I think the "Beginning linux programming" book is nice if you know C |
| 22:02.35 | xkr47 | I bought it as a christmas present for a friend |
| 22:02.38 | mortimus | that might help you if you need to set up eclipse on windows |
| 22:02.46 | xkr47 | now he has ported his windows demos to linux using SDL :) |
| 22:03.09 | xkr47 | or well, that was a few years ago.. |
| 22:03.20 | xkr47 | comicinker, check your local library, maybe you'll find it there |
| 22:04.12 | mortimus | isn't linux programing the same except you have headers for almost every program |
| 22:04.28 | mortimus | i have noticed that on gentoo |
| 22:04.34 | spikebik1 | er |
| 22:04.46 | spikebik1 | the main difference is the libraries, especially GUI ones |
| 22:04.52 | xkr47 | koen, pulseaudio --resample-method=trivial <other options> \o/ |
| 22:05.07 | spikebik1 | linux C = windows C fore the most part |
| 22:05.09 | spikebik1 | python = python |
| 22:05.11 | spikebik1 | java = java |
| 22:05.11 | koen | xkr47: so it's runtime? |
| 22:05.20 | xkr47 | yeah.. it overrides the hardcoded default I think |
| 22:05.33 | xkr47 | or well.. so the code seems to do.. main.c etc :) |
| 22:05.34 | mortimus | which is better to learn C or C++ |
| 22:05.42 | xkr47 | koen, I think you can even put that in the default config file |
| 22:05.47 | spikebik1 | C first I'd say |
| 22:06.03 | koen | xkr47: if you have fpu, you'd want libsamplerate, right? |
| 22:06.20 | xkr47 | koen, well I guess so.. it gives better results |
| 22:06.30 | mortimus | I am learning C++ in collage but im not getting much out of the class except some concepts |
| 22:06.32 | xkr47 | koen, the "trivial" version does nothing but skip/duplicate samples |
| 22:06.38 | xkr47 | koen, aka "nearest neighbor" |
| 22:06.55 | xkr47 | koen, but if you are making moko-only configs.. |
| 22:07.03 | Lorphos | so, can we start ordering right after todays announcement? or is that covered by "no preorders yet" |
| 22:07.03 | WillySilly2 | xkr47: yeah, it'd go in /etc/pulse/client.conf |
| 22:07.18 | koen | xkr47: I'm not :) |
| 22:07.29 | koen | xkr47: trying to figure out how I can do it in OE :) |
| 22:07.40 | koen | and configure option would be easy :) |
| 22:08.08 | WillySilly2 | make a patch and send it to Lennart |
| 22:08.20 | xkr47 | WillySilly2, actually it goes into /etc/pulse/daemon.conf |
| 22:08.36 | WillySilly2 | xkr47: ah, right, right |
| 22:08.37 | WillySilly2 | My bad |
| 22:09.04 | xkr47 | koen, $EDITOR /etc/pulse/daemon.conf -> search for resample-method |
| 22:09.16 | xkr47 | koen -> uncomment -> set to trivial |
| 22:09.24 | boorad | mortimus: learn D - http://www.digitalmars.com/d |
| 22:09.38 | xkr47 | koen, if you mean something else by "configuration option", then ok.. dunno :) |
| 22:10.32 | noidd | So, y'alls openmoko. |
| 22:10.34 | xkr47 | boorad (mortimus), heh |
| 22:10.41 | xkr47 | noidd, ?-) |
| 22:10.41 | *** join/#openmoko Sencer (i=Sencer@gateway/tor/x-665e953a8ca50adf) |
| 22:10.45 | noidd | Black or White |
| 22:10.56 | boorad | xkr47: ? |
| 22:10.56 | mortimus | bookmarked |
| 22:10.58 | noidd | I'm leaning towards black |
| 22:11.10 | xkr47 | boorad, maybe not start with D if you want to get into unix programming :) |
| 22:11.15 | *** join/#openmoko Boaz_- (n=Boaz@bull1.hereno.info) |
| 22:11.18 | xkr47 | noidd, hmm ?-) |
| 22:11.19 | noidd | what color case was the question I was asking - pretty much :-P |
| 22:11.25 | xkr47 | the n800 had a nice easter egg |
| 22:11.34 | boorad | xkr47: well, maybe, but why get polluted with C/C++ unnecessarily? |
| 22:11.49 | mortimus | grey |
| 22:12.02 | xkr47 | if you opened the package manager, chose "add new repository", and entered "matrix" as url and pressed cancel, you get normally hidden packages in the list as well :D |
| 22:12.20 | noidd | I"m leaning towards black too |
| 22:12.21 | xkr47 | oh sorry no.. after pressing cancel, a dialog pops up "Choose: [Red pill] [Blue pill]" |
| 22:12.21 | Lorphos | cancel, eh? |
| 22:12.24 | koen | xkr47: red pill mode |
| 22:12.26 | *** part/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R23b3.r.pppool.de) |
| 22:12.30 | *** join/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R23b3.r.pppool.de) |
| 22:12.34 | noidd | I'm hoping its PSP black not grey tho |
| 22:12.37 | xkr47 | cancel yeah |
| 22:13.06 | xkr47 | the pills have the obvious effect :) |
| 22:13.12 | comicinker | ok thanks guys, I will read the book when I finish this semesters examinations. sorry bother you |
| 22:13.23 | xkr47 | comicinker, you didn't! |
| 22:13.29 | *** part/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R23b3.r.pppool.de) |
| 22:13.54 | mortimus | thats pretty lame my local library does not have linux programming anything |
| 22:14.13 | xkr47 | :P |
| 22:14.39 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 22:15.02 | xkr47 | http://eu.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0764544977.html |
| 22:15.09 | xkr47 | (mortimus) |
| 22:15.40 | xkr47 | there's an excerpt in the upper right corner |
| 22:16.20 | xkr47 | first program is a "Hello world" and in chapter n+1 you write your own device drivers ;) |
| 22:16.44 | mortimus | thanks |
| 22:16.51 | greentux_ | ok, going to bed. I think when I standup there will be no friday left at the world |
| 22:16.54 | xkr47 | greentux_, good niiiight! |
| 22:17.07 | xkr47 | greentux_, long live the next friday! |
| 22:17.09 | *** join/#openmoko vargr_ (n=vargr_@dsl092-109-027.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 22:17.28 | mortimus | i really need to concentrate on getting gentoo updateed |
| 22:17.42 | xkr47 | mortimus, if I can help, shout :) |
| 22:18.01 | mortimus | dbus has been upgraded and gnome is going to break if i restart |
| 22:18.11 | xkr47 | :O |
| 22:18.17 | xkr47 | ok sorry :) |
| 22:18.36 | mortimus | its fine i have done worse |
| 22:18.39 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 22:19.05 | mortimus | like forgeting to compile filesystem support inside kernel |
| 22:20.00 | koen | http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/83917 |
| 22:21.41 | TRIsoft | koen: iPhone sucks, even with the handgrenade function |
| 22:22.02 | koen | the protectionism is just so funny |
| 22:22.56 | TRIsoft | and they have an integrated mustart-dispenser... |
| 22:26.30 | xkr47 | "if it however differently to go should not become, we also with several partners to work" |
| 22:26.56 | vargr_ | all greek to me |
| 22:27.02 | TRIsoft | ... tries to get the sense |
| 22:27.39 | koen | xkr47: "if possible, only one telco, if not, several" |
| 22:27.44 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 22:28.18 | mortimus | so you want a monopoly koen |
| 22:28.25 | Lorphos | well actually they have a reason: their voicemail feature requires carrier support |
| 22:28.46 | koen | mortimus: I don't want a monopoly |
| 22:28.46 | TRIsoft | YES ! OpenMoko rules the mobilephone-world ;-) |
| 22:29.14 | vargr_ | a nice open monopoly would be far preferable to what we have now, if you ask me... |
| 22:29.54 | spikebik1 | lorphos like the rest of the world wouldn't skip visual voicemail to get an iphone |
| 22:30.06 | xkr47 | koen, k.. how's the pulseaudio + oe coming along ?-) |
| 22:30.18 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 22:30.22 | koen | I added 0.9.5 |
| 22:30.27 | Lorphos | perhaps we can also realize visual voicemail with some user configurable scripts that automatically download the voicemail to the phone |
| 22:30.44 | xkr47 | koen, did you change the default to fixed-point ? |
| 22:31.03 | koen | not yet |
| 22:31.33 | xkr47 | found a problem in the alsa emulation.. pressing ctrl-c in arecord hangs the program and it has to be killed with -9 |
| 22:31.56 | xkr47 | at the same time the daemon prints "protocol-native.c: Failed to push data into output queue." all the time until the -9 is sent |
| 22:32.15 | *** join/#openmoko Sum1 (n=Sum1@80.175.142.81) |
| 22:32.33 | jjazz | Lorphos: Asterisk has an option to email mp3 of voicemail to users, which is much the same thing if your phone automatically grabs those via imap or pop. |
| 22:32.35 | xkr47 | alsa catches up with XorA |
| 22:32.48 | xkr47 | alsa takes a bite off XorA |
| 22:33.11 | Lorphos | jjazz: well i was talking about voicemail left on your cellphone |
| 22:33.50 | xkr47 | the n800 has a programmable DSP chip.. it seems somebody has programmed a mp3 decoder into it and it is then presented as /dev/dsp-mp3 |
| 22:34.00 | spikebik1 | xkr cool |
| 22:34.02 | xkr47 | so if one does cat foo.mp3 > /dev/dsp-mp3, it plays the mp3 |
| 22:34.08 | *** join/#openmoko dduardo (n=dduardo@74.92.203.97) |
| 22:34.09 | spikebik1 | maybe I should upgrade my n770 |
| 22:34.20 | jjazz | Lorphos: Ah, my cellphone vmail is configured to use my asterisk vmail. It's all the same vmail to me. |
| 22:34.23 | koen | xkr47: it also have a mpeg4 encode/decode block |
| 22:34.30 | xkr47 | so mplayer also uses that device for movies with mp3 sound |
| 22:34.34 | koen | xkr47: but that doesn't work yet under linux |
| 22:34.45 | xkr47 | koen, sure, you can load whatever code into the dsp |
| 22:34.58 | koen | the mpeg4 is in the IVA, not the DSP |
| 22:35.16 | jjazz | Lorphos: Most cells allow you to specify where the call gets handed to if you don't pick up. If you designate your asterisk vmail there instead of your cell provider vmail, you then have one less vmail box to check. |
| 22:35.20 | koen | the n800 is basically a n93i |
| 22:35.47 | spikebik1 | oh? |
| 22:35.49 | Lorphos | jjazz: good point. anyway, I always disable voice mail on my cell :) |
| 22:35.52 | spikebik1 | I didn't know that |
| 22:35.54 | Zer0Her0_ | does that DSP increase battery life? |
| 22:36.04 | spikebik1 | does the n93i have a 800x480 screen? |
| 22:36.14 | Paladine | http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070119/flq_CSIS_070119/20070119?hub=Canada |
| 22:36.15 | jjazz | Lorphos: Good for you. I don't really listen to vmail. I haven't listened to a vmail in over a year. |
| 22:36.16 | xkr47 | koen, ok I don't know IVA :) |
| 22:36.17 | spikebik1 | does the n93i run linux? |
| 22:38.35 | koen | and hopefully the mailinglist will have no "OMG!!! WIFI!!! VOIP!!!" mails |
| 22:38.57 | mortimus | keep that secret |
| 22:38.57 | xkr47 | :DD |
| 22:39.03 | dduardo | OMG!!! FPU!!! |
| 22:39.07 | xkr47 | koen, they always do, regardless of what happens |
| 22:39.29 | xkr47 | WTFPU!! OM3G!! |
| 22:39.46 | mortimus | well im done baby sitting revdep-rebuild i think i can take of of itself |
| 22:39.47 | xorAxAx | in the DTZ (developer TZ), "this friday" will end in 20 minutes |
| 22:39.54 | xkr47 | good night koen |
| 22:40.07 | xorAxAx | so we should think about answers to the question "what will you buy if you wont buy the neo phone?" |
| 22:40.19 | dduardo | When is the "Announcement" being made? |
| 22:40.31 | xorAxAx | see the topic, dduardo |
| 22:40.44 | jjazz | xorAxAx: Hope for a linux port to the treo, probably |
| 22:40.45 | dduardo | Today isn't very specific |
| 22:40.47 | spikebik1 | xor motorola A1200 probably |
| 22:40.48 | dduardo | I need a time |
| 22:40.57 | dduardo | and central time is not specific either |
| 22:41.03 | spikebik1 | or maybe the rokr e6 |
| 22:41.12 | xkr47 | dduardo, 27:55 |
| 22:41.33 | xorAxAx | spikebik1: is it seriously usable with linux on it? |
| 22:41.34 | xkr47 | nobody knows, mmkay? |
| 22:41.37 | Lorphos | i just go to sleep.. "today" is almost over here |
| 22:41.38 | dduardo | Is that mars time? |
| 22:41.39 | spikebik1 | xor yeah |
| 22:41.45 | spikebik1 | xor they are selling quite well |
| 22:41.55 | xorAxAx | spikebik1: does it run OE? |
| 22:42.00 | spikebik1 | leading phone in fact at some of the internet vendors |
| 22:42.05 | spikebik1 | OE = ? |
| 22:42.09 | xorAxAx | openembeded |
| 22:42.13 | xorAxAx | or how do you install new apps? |
| 22:42.28 | spikebik1 | no, linux OS, includes java, pretty much a turn key usable phone |
| 22:42.35 | spikebik1 | they provide source for the kernel and many of the aps |
| 22:42.38 | spikebik1 | and utilities |
| 22:43.18 | xkr47 | OE == build environment |
| 22:43.20 | xkr47 | (afaik) |
| 22:43.48 | Zer0Her0_ | time for the drive home |
| 22:44.14 | xorAxAx | spikebik1: yes, but where do you get your apps from? |
| 22:44.25 | spikebik1 | zillions of places for java aps |
| 22:44.27 | xorAxAx | the most open os is useless if there are no usable apps |
| 22:44.35 | xorAxAx | free java apps? |
| 22:44.41 | xorAxAx | never seen one :) |
| 22:44.44 | spikebik1 | things like opera mini |
| 22:44.49 | spikebik1 | google has some as well |
| 22:44.49 | xorAxAx | thats not free |
| 22:45.01 | spikebik1 | some are free... some not |
| 22:45.10 | spikebik1 | it's up to who writes them (as usual) |
| 22:45.17 | xorAxAx | sure |
| 22:45.29 | xorAxAx | but i think no solution can beat datebk5 on my palm ... |
| 22:45.48 | spikebik1 | port it ;-) |
| 22:45.52 | xorAxAx | its bad to see how nothing is evolved as palm os 3 and its third-party apps where years ago |
| 22:45.54 | Mortimus|null | thats because you have not made one yet |
| 22:45.55 | xorAxAx | its closed source :) |
| 22:45.56 | spikebik1 | Isn't there a java based palm emulator? |
| 22:46.24 | xorAxAx | spikebik1: possible |
| 22:46.33 | xorAxAx | but then, it should get synced |
| 22:46.41 | xorAxAx | not sure if thats possible through an emulator |
| 22:46.43 | thedaniel | xorAxAx: "the most open os is useless if there are no usable apps" |
| 22:46.52 | thedaniel | that's the most ridiculous thing i've heard all day |
| 22:47.05 | thedaniel | the most open OS engenders the creation of all sorts of usable apps |
| 22:47.19 | xorAxAx | thedaniel: ? |
| 22:47.27 | xorAxAx | thedaniel: do you know what "if" means? |
| 22:47.30 | thedaniel | the most open OS with no apps on day zero is a lot more interesting on day 100 than the closed os with 5 apps |
| 22:47.48 | xorAxAx | no, thats not true |
| 22:47.54 | xorAxAx | think about uuu |
| 22:47.58 | xorAxAx | its an open OS |
| 22:48.01 | xorAxAx | but there is no single app |
| 22:48.08 | xorAxAx | in the meanwhile, it died |
| 22:48.57 | spikebik1 | it's kinda impossible to have zero aps and run linux, especially if open |
| 22:48.59 | Mortimus|null | oh man i did not see the charged over usb |
| 22:49.11 | xkr47 | especially if gtk compiles without a single patch |
| 22:49.12 | Mortimus|null | thats pretty sweet |
| 22:49.19 | xkr47 | Mortimus|null, yeah.. |
| 22:49.29 | spikebik1 | after all there are many arm based linux widgets that have aps |
| 22:49.32 | xkr47 | Mortimus|null, it's a so called Mini-AB USB port |
| 22:49.35 | xkr47 | Mortimus|null, afaik |
| 22:49.36 | spikebik1 | like say my nokia 770 |
| 22:49.40 | spikebik1 | or the other linux phones |
| 22:49.55 | spikebik1 | linux phones aren't exactly new |
| 22:50.20 | Mortimus|null | that mean i don't have to make the ghetto power supply for my phone using my computer power supply |
| 22:50.36 | Mortimus|null | since it is the hub of my house |
| 22:51.11 | spikebik1 | T-10 |
| 22:53.36 | dduardo | What filesystem is being used on the Neo? Cramfs? |
| 22:53.44 | jthomas | sorry if this is dumb, but I've beengone all day -- was there an announcement made? if so, where? |
| 22:54.21 | dduardo | jthomas, no announcement yet |
| 22:54.25 | jthomas | k thanks for the info! have a good weekend, all! |
| 22:54.50 | xkr47 | dduardo, jffs/jffs2 probably.. afaik cramfs is older |
| 22:55.28 | dduardo | ah, ok |
| 22:56.45 | Mortimus | this kinda reminds me of openwrt |
| 22:56.53 | Mortimus | just for a phone |
| 22:58.46 | |Melkman| | big difference with openWRT: this manufacturer actually wants... no needs it :-) |
| 22:59.11 | spikebik1 | cramfs is great for read only |
| 22:59.20 | spikebik1 | jffs2 is great for read/write |
| 22:59.27 | Mortimus | that is a point |
| 22:59.39 | spikebik1 | cramfs has compression |
| 23:01.43 | spikebik1 | booo |
| 23:01.49 | spikebik1 | 5pm central |
| 23:02.24 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_nokia (n=greentux@tmo-036-188.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 23:02.37 | *** join/#openmoko _rob_ (n=rob@ACB4C56D.ipt.aol.com) |
| 23:05.36 | *** part/#openmoko greentux_nokia (n=greentux@tmo-036-188.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 23:08.03 | |Melkman| | Ok, I just passed in to saturday.. I'm off to sleep |
| 23:09.28 | WillySilly2 | Night Melkman|sleep |
| 23:11.56 | TRIsoft | Mac goes to sleep aswell |
| 23:12.06 | Mortimus | its 6 pm and im tired |
| 23:17.56 | dduardo | Here is the announcement: http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=neo1973announcementra2.jpg |
| 23:18.42 | *** join/#openmoko estooge (i=tool@gateway/tor/x-d0c09ba3057f38b0) |
| 23:18.52 | borg_ | lol :) |
| 23:19.39 | dduardo | Introducing the Neo1973 |
| 23:19.45 | dduardo | It holds 1 billion songs |
| 23:19.50 | dduardo | 1 billion songs |
| 23:19.55 | thedaniel | that's billion with a b |
| 23:19.56 | dduardo | Billion, with a B |
| 23:20.04 | dduardo | ah, you beat me too it |
| 23:20.06 | benJIman | British Billion or American Billion? |
| 23:20.17 | dduardo | South African Billion |
| 23:20.31 | cjb | heh |
| 23:20.35 | benJIman | American Billion is onlya thousand million |
| 23:20.52 | cjb | was there supposed to be some announcement today? |
| 23:21.04 | dduardo | Yes, look at the title |
| 23:21.06 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-191-125.cust.broadway.se) |
| 23:21.12 | dduardo | 2007 Roadmap Announcement Today (Central Time) |
| 23:21.14 | wabz | why is it called the neo1973? |
| 23:21.30 | dduardo | because in the matrix they use nmap and linux |
| 23:21.30 | thedaniel | just a product number, wabz, as far as i can tell |
| 23:21.50 | cjb | heh: "Today (Central Time)". Weird mix of very specific and veru unspecific granularity there. :) |
| 23:22.37 | dduardo | CJB, at least they aren't given it in Discordian |
| 23:22.49 | cjb | Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 19th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3173 |
| 23:23.19 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 23:23.19 | cjb | haha |
| 23:23.26 | dduardo | I think the linux distro running on the neo should be called the matrix |
| 23:23.29 | cjb | well, you can make *yours* do that, right? :) |
| 23:23.40 | xkr47 | we'll se :) |
| 23:25.01 | xkr47 | doh, I remembered it wrong :) |
| 23:25.22 | dduardo | The next revision of the Neo needs to have USB 2.0 so I can hookup the Xbox HD-DVD drive to it and watch the matrix in 1080p |
| 23:25.50 | dduardo | And they need to make the screen support 1080p |
| 23:26.25 | dduardo | A 24" LCD that fits in your pocket |
| 23:26.40 | xkr47 | there's no block cursor.. and the text is "Wake up, Neo..." |
| 23:26.58 | dduardo | The wallpaper could be white rabbits |
| 23:27.03 | xkr47 | yeah |
| 23:27.07 | xkr47 | next line: "The matrix has you..." |
| 23:27.16 | xkr47 | it could be changed to "The Linux has you..." :) |
| 23:27.19 | buz | dduardo: there are 7" 1080 screens but they will hardly fit a neo |
| 23:27.21 | xkr47 | or GNU Linux :) |
| 23:27.24 | thedaniel | i love this. the theme of my blog tends toward 'applying 80s scifi tropes to real life' |
| 23:27.30 | thedaniel | the neo is fitting in just right |
| 23:27.31 | ninHer | Gnu/Linux |
| 23:27.34 | ninHer | :-) |
| 23:27.41 | dduardo | Gnu/Matrix |
| 23:28.06 | dduardo | a 7" screen @ 1080 wow |
| 23:28.10 | xkr47 | heh |
| 23:28.38 | xkr47 | Knock, knock, Neo. |
| 23:28.48 | xkr47 | and then X would start up :) |
| 23:28.50 | dduardo | It would be cool if you could modulate the voice of the other person on the line to sound like morpheus |
| 23:28.58 | xkr47 | :DD |
| 23:31.07 | dduardo | You could have a Neo soundboard on the phone: http://uploads.ungrounded.net/146000/146735_NeoSoundboard.swf |
| 23:31.31 | dduardo | Guns, lots of guns |
| 23:31.46 | jjazz | hmm |
| 23:32.19 | CM | thedaniel: The first call ever with a mobile phone was done April 3:rd 1973 |
| 23:32.32 | CM | Hence Neo1973 |
| 23:32.39 | thedaniel | CM: that's appropriately weighty and awesome |
| 23:33.19 | buz | so the next one will be enclosed in shiny black leather and called trinity |
| 23:34.02 | dduardo | The USB port could be used to jack Neo into the Matrix. |
| 23:37.10 | *** join/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R23b3.r.pppool.de) |
| 23:37.13 | *** part/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R23b3.r.pppool.de) |
| 23:37.16 | dduardo | Neat Mod: http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/19/the-wii-laptop/ |
| 23:37.50 | spikebik1 | who posted the announcement today message? |
| 23:38.31 | CM | Sean I think, and mickyl is supposedly proof-reading it now |
| 23:40.38 | spikebik1 | oh, so it's coming soon? |
| 23:40.53 | spikebik1 | I feared it was canceled since it's now after-hours in central |
| 23:41.44 | CM | mickyl said he was pushing on the pr-people to get the pressrelase done |
| 23:41.55 | CM | And he would proof read it and send it back |
| 23:42.02 | spikebik1 | so hope for an announce today... or not? |
| 23:42.04 | xkr47 | I guess it requires a lot of pushing |
| 23:42.06 | CM | And I guess Sean will look at it in the morning or so.. |
| 23:42.11 | CM | Heh, seems like it |
| 23:42.24 | xkr47 | I don't mind.. I prefer a proper announcement :) |
| 23:42.27 | buz | its morning in taiwan |
| 23:42.35 | xkr47 | speculation ;) |
| 23:42.46 | xkr47 | internet + jet lag can be tricky ;) |
| 23:44.06 | dduardo | I know what the issue is: They are trying at the last minute to get WIFI on the phone. ;) |
| 23:44.20 | WillySilly2 | ha |
| 23:44.21 | xkr47 | or multitouch ;) |
| 23:44.29 | spikebik1 | not or... and |
| 23:44.36 | xkr47 | xor |
| 23:44.37 | xkr47 | :) |
| 23:44.39 | spikebik1 | actually I could care less about multitouch |
| 23:44.40 | benJIman | Heh, just a quick re-write of X and GTK |
| 23:44.46 | spikebik1 | big deal zoom in/out. |
| 23:44.47 | xkr47 | how much less |
| 23:45.06 | spikebik1 | whatever, just a gimmic |
| 23:45.42 | benJIman | I think multitouch will make a big difference to interface design in the future, but there arn't any interfaces to take advantage of it fully yet. |
| 23:46.03 | spikebik1 | people are optimistic... I've seen cool aps, none seemed phone friendly |
| 23:46.09 | spikebik1 | apple's demos made minimal use of it |
| 23:46.24 | spikebik1 | after all there isn't a whole lot of room for fingers on a 2.9" screen |
| 23:46.46 | bhima | part of the benefit of a multi-touch capable display is dealing with accidental finger bumps. |
| 23:46.51 | Mortimus | unless you have child fingers |
| 23:47.14 | benJIman | spikebik1: Apple's interface demo didn't make much use of it no |
| 23:47.20 | spikebik1 | and usually I just want to select thigns anyways... move this, move that, select, etc. |
| 23:47.34 | benJIman | You are used to traditional interfaces |
| 23:48.00 | spikebik1 | I am... but humans seem rather single point focused |
| 23:48.01 | benJIman | In the real world there arn't such arbitary limits as interacting with one part of something at once |
| 23:48.13 | bhima | Being able to zoom in to _any_ section of an image would also be nice. |
| 23:48.30 | spikebik1 | sure, like maybe *gasp* sweep out an area to zoom |
| 23:48.31 | bhima | Zoom buttons like the 770 has zoom in only to the middle. |
| 23:49.01 | bhima | "sweep out"? You mean, "Select zoom tool from the tool bar, then drag across the area?" |
| 23:49.05 | dduardo | You could zoom with the stylus in a more precise manner without multitouch |
| 23:49.58 | bhima | dduardo: I don't like using styli with mobile interfaces. |
| 23:50.19 | dduardo | Well, I don't like greasy displays either |
| 23:51.25 | dduardo | To me the stylus or hardbuttons make the most practical sense |
| 23:52.14 | bhima | If you hold the phone to your head, your face'll put more grease on it than your fingers ever will. |
| 23:52.43 | bhima | I find that I get a fair amount of grease on my displays even when I use the stylus. |
| 23:53.02 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 23:53.16 | parag0n | Roadmap not around yet? :'< |
| 23:53.18 | bhima | I like hardware buttons, but the right ones are never there. |
| 23:54.16 | dduardo | parag0n, nope |
| 23:56.54 | *** join/#openmoko inivex (n=eachan@c-75-73-239-142.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 23:57.46 | dduardo | How about a capacitive sensor along the side of the lcd. You could slide your finger along that instead of the actually display to scroll up or down |
| 23:58.14 | parag0n | why when theres an lcd right there |
| 23:58.34 | dduardo | But the LCD has a higher coefficient of friction |
| 23:58.40 | thedaniel | one of the htc phones has this |
| 23:58.44 | thedaniel | it's kind of slick actually |
| 23:59.03 | thedaniel | but i think the blackberry style jog wheel is the best of that genre |
| 23:59.44 | dduardo | How about an accelerometer that measures the tilt of the device |
| 23:59.55 | dduardo | Steeper tilt scrolls faster |
