| 00:03.54 | Carna | mmm last question,then I'm going to leave |
| 00:04.23 | Carna | about the battery...how long does it stay on? |
| 00:05.17 | mickeyl | unfortunately that's not clear yet. battery just recently was delivered :) |
| 00:05.25 | mickeyl | i hope we know soon |
| 00:05.28 | mickeyl | (next week or so) |
| 00:05.29 | Carna | mmm k |
| 00:06.00 | Carna | anyway I hope it works longer than one day or two on stand by |
| 00:06.21 | mickeyl | that would be the goal |
| 00:06.30 | mickeyl | but it's tough |
| 00:06.30 | Carna | k |
| 00:06.53 | Carna | good night |
| 00:06.55 | Carna | ;D |
| 00:06.57 | mickeyl | g'night |
| 00:07.00 | mickeyl | good idea btw. |
| 00:07.17 | *** part/#openmoko Carna (n=andrea@151.57.108.154) |
| 00:15.03 | *** join/#openmoko Stephmw (n=steph@212.69.51.139) |
| 00:16.01 | *** join/#openmoko djsuszi (i=f17aba2f@beer.in.lublin.pl) |
| 00:30.34 | TiredMac | good night all |
| 00:32.45 | *** join/#openmoko BuildMania (n=chatzill@168.226.104.227) |
| 00:37.15 | nonick01 | recently reached the project page :) |
| 00:39.40 | nonick01 | so OpenMoko is as far as I understand the OS of the neo1973 mobile phone right? |
| 00:42.25 | Zer0Her0 | correct |
| 00:42.29 | Zer0Her0 | ...i think |
| 00:42.34 | Zer0Her0 | i'm new too ;-) |
| 00:43.28 | imcsk8 | hello, how can i contribute, i could code (i want to learn to code mobile apps) and i could translate from english to spanish |
| 00:44.53 | Zer0Her0 | imcsk8: there isn't anything to currently due, other then wait |
| 00:44.59 | Zer0Her0 | no code released currently |
| 00:45.08 | Zer0Her0 | FIC is mostly working towards getting the initial release out |
| 00:45.16 | nonick01 | I am argentinian so I also can translate :) |
| 00:45.50 | imcsk8 | bien!! |
| 00:46.20 | *** join/#openmoko pike_ (i=pike@server1.freeshells.ch) |
| 00:46.29 | imcsk8 | Zer0Her0: so we have to wait until de release to start the contributions?? |
| 00:46.46 | nonick01 | howewer I don't know programming languages (I only know BASIC ATM) |
| 00:47.10 | nonick01 | also in what programming language will be written openmoko? |
| 00:48.36 | nonick01 | I like this project because I am tired of too many propietary mobile phones |
| 00:48.54 | Zer0Her0 | imcsk8: no way of knowing for sure |
| 00:48.57 | Zer0Her0 | but it looks that way |
| 00:49.03 | nonick01 | 'mobile phones too need to meet open source' :) |
| 00:49.28 | Zer0Her0 | agreed |
| 00:53.37 | imcsk8 | Zer0Her0: could be a good start to read the openembedded docs? |
| 00:54.33 | Zer0Her0 | imcsk8: i really don't know, i'm new here as well |
| 00:54.35 | Zer0Her0 | i'm guessing sure |
| 01:00.32 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@24.128.243.228) |
| 01:05.14 | nonick01 | no camera? much people will complain about it :( |
| 01:06.37 | nonick01 | don't matter, I never understand those brainless people that complains that a 2mp camera for a *mobile phone* is too low |
| 01:07.15 | Agrajag- | sensors in mobile phones are too small and you never get good pictures no matter what |
| 01:08.56 | nonick01 | with an vga camera I am satisfeed equally but equally I think that camera isn't necesary |
| 01:09.13 | nonick01 | "if you want photos buy a real camera" |
| 01:10.40 | nonick01 | also infrared port is too obsolet for putting that into this phone, besides the old phones factor (irda but not BT) |
| 01:11.24 | nonick01 | but no matter, this phone will beat iPhone easily |
| 01:13.49 | nonick01 | also the prices (besides I will never get it because here are too many looser people that doesn't have another idea than stole things) will be lower and without contract, plus earlier release dates, this will be the best phone ever :) |
| 01:16.30 | *** join/#openmoko invain (n=invain@210.94.41.89) |
| 01:17.36 | nonick01 | also will be there mobile phones with another designs? like a clamshell medium-class one, or an low-end candybar? |
| 01:19.10 | nonick01 | because I have got some crappy mockups that can be used for future low/middle-end phones |
| 01:22.23 | *** join/#openmoko tg_ (n=tg@cube0.sch.bme.hu) |
| 01:24.56 | nonick01 | also here gps wouldn't work because there will be no maps of my country |
| 01:28.02 | *** join/#openmoko tg_ (i=tg@x-net.hu) |
| 01:29.42 | *** join/#openmoko Permafrost91 (n=permafro@adsl-144-164-155.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:30.14 | Permafrost91 | /exit |
| 01:30.16 | *** part/#openmoko Permafrost91 (n=permafro@adsl-144-164-155.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:30.58 | *** join/#openmoko lkcl_ (n=lkcl@5ac5f3e8.bb.sky.com) |
| 01:43.16 | lamby | nonick01: i'm sure if you asked nicely someone would write you a BASIC compiler :) |
| 01:44.01 | nonick01 | I don't asked it, I just told it |
| 01:46.01 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001310d36705.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 01:48.00 | nonick01 | there is a open source proyect called FreeBASIC that can be ported to the neo1973 |
| 01:58.58 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 02:03.21 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 02:04.24 | *** part/#openmoko bradoaks (n=bradoaks@dog.lost-habit.com) |
| 02:14.18 | Zer0Her0 | hehe |
| 02:36.17 | *** join/#openmoko nonick01_ (n=chatzill@168.226.104.3) |
| 02:40.17 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jae@53-89.netblk-69-41-89.coolaccess.net) |
| 02:42.41 | nonick01_ | no wifi? better because it eats the battery:) |
| 02:53.42 | *** join/#openmoko edwardocallaghan (n=edward@host86-129-150-218.range86-129.btcentralplus.com) |
| 02:54.16 | *** join/#openmoko comicinke1 (n=simeon@R2a16.r.pppool.de) |
| 02:57.18 | ciastek | ok, enough sleep for tonight |
| 03:02.25 | *** part/#openmoko edwardocallaghan (n=edward@host86-129-150-218.range86-129.btcentralplus.com) |
| 03:11.15 | *** part/#openmoko meyerm (n=meyerm@p549875CA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 05:28.00 | *** join/#openmoko Paladine (n=Paladine@paladine.org.uk) |
| 05:28.07 | Paladine | you guys rock |
| 05:28.44 | ciastek | yeah, they do :] |
| 05:28.55 | Paladine | Ijust found out about the phone tonight |
| 05:29.02 | Paladine | and I am aroused |
| 05:29.09 | Paladine | if you will excuse me |
| 05:29.15 | *** join/#openmoko hugh_ (n=hugh@121-73-26-88.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 05:29.18 | Paladine | when is it due for release in the UK? |
| 05:29.32 | thedaniel | Paladine: see /topic |
| 05:29.37 | Paladine | yeah just saw it |
| 05:29.39 | Paladine | sorry ;) |
| 05:29.44 | Paladine | just over excited |
| 05:29.50 | thedaniel | haha np |
| 05:30.30 | Paladine | direct sale world wide, thats a really nice concept |
| 05:30.45 | Paladine | nothing worse that staggered releases across different countries |
| 05:32.03 | thedaniel | Paladine: considering it's an unlocked phone using a global standard, there's no reason for a staggered release. i'm quite excited too - there's apparently some announcement about the phone and the OpenMoko project roadmap Friday |
| 05:32.28 | Paladine | I can't wait to buy one and laugh at people with apple's <insert-non-trademarked-name-here> |
| 05:32.29 | thedaniel | (that is, friday in GMT + 10 or so) |
| 05:33.05 | Paladine | I can't believe I only heard about this tonight |
| 05:33.12 | Paladine | I don't normally miss stuflike this |
| 05:36.36 | *** join/#openmoko hugh_ (n=hugh@121-73-26-88.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 05:36.43 | hugh_ | hi |
| 05:36.59 | Paladine | hi |
| 05:37.08 | hugh_ | the FIC Neo1973 has no wifi? |
| 05:37.29 | hugh_ | ?? |
| 05:37.57 | ciastek | yes, because of price, battery and no open chips in short :] |
| 05:38.29 | freak132 | hugh_, wifi would make it alot more expensive, if you want initial penetration when you dont have carrier subsidies you want to keep the price down |
| 05:38.46 | Paladine | and it has usb2 |
| 05:38.47 | hugh_ | oh |
| 05:38.56 | Paladine | so I suspect a USB2>Wifi adapter would be fine |
| 05:38.59 | ciastek | no, usb1.1 |
| 05:39.05 | hugh_ | hmm |
| 05:39.20 | hugh_ | that would make it much bigger tho |
| 05:39.21 | Paladine | oh the review I read said usb2 |
| 05:39.28 | Paladine | but eventhen usb1 will work fine :) |
| 05:40.07 | ciastek | no usb2 also because of price as far as i noticed here |
| 05:40.14 | hugh_ | how much will it be? |
| 05:40.26 | ciastek | and memory card wont be hotswapable :] |
| 05:40.35 | ciastek | hugh_, price? |
| 05:40.39 | hugh_ | yup |
| 05:40.45 | ciastek | $350 |
| 05:40.51 | hugh_ | jesus |
| 05:41.00 | hugh_ | USD? |
| 05:41.08 | ciastek | yes |
| 05:41.16 | hugh_ | 350 usd and no wifi!?!? |
| 05:41.29 | Paladine | $350 USD is cheap for a phone |
| 05:41.33 | Paladine | even cheaper for a smart phone |
| 05:41.42 | Paladine | and even cheaper still for a smartphone with GPS |
| 05:42.50 | hugh_ | well yea, but the nintendo ds is about 150 bucks (?) and the battery lasts 10 hrs and it has wifi |
| 05:43.58 | Paladine | and it doesn't have gps, gsm |
| 05:44.02 | Paladine | and it isn't opensource |
| 05:44.16 | Paladine | you are comparing apples to oranges |
| 05:44.20 | ciastek | and you dont want your phone's battery to last 10 hrs ;) |
| 05:44.39 | hugh_ | oh right... |
| 05:44.42 | Paladine | I don't need my phone battery to last 10 hours |
| 05:44.48 | Paladine | I don't have 10 hour phone calls |
| 05:45.06 | ciastek | i thought about standby ;) |
| 05:45.10 | hugh_ | openmoko will have gps? |
| 05:45.15 | Paladine | yes |
| 05:45.20 | Paladine | it has gps |
| 05:45.29 | Paladine | unless the review I readis totally wrong |
| 05:45.29 | hugh_ | it has gps but no wifi |
| 05:50.14 | Paladine | some people eh? |
| 05:50.55 | ciastek | hm? |
| 05:53.24 | Paladine | is the price gonna be global? or is it gonna be like every other product that comes to the UK and be 2x as expensive as the rest of the world? |
| 05:54.38 | thedaniel | direct sale worldwide seems to mean you send taiwan USD350 and they send you a phone |
| 05:54.49 | thedaniel | and that's as complicated as it is |
| 05:55.53 | Paladine | yeah thats what I assumed, but the british market has this annoying habit of charging a direct translation from USD to GBP |
| 05:56.05 | Paladine | so like a product for $350 USD would be £350 (GBP) |
| 05:56.09 | Paladine | which is almost 2x as much |
| 05:57.00 | ciastek | Paladine, but you have very nice magazine - T3 ;] |
| 05:57.48 | Paladine | I am not familiar with it, I avoid british culture as much as I possibly can |
| 06:01.34 | Psi | do you think this roadmap announcement will tell us the exact date the phones will go on sale? |
| 06:01.45 | Psi | or do ya think it wont be that specific |
| 06:01.51 | Paladine | I suspect it is gonna be hard to get hold of |
| 06:01.53 | cying | uh oh |
| 06:01.55 | cying | no wifi? |
| 06:01.57 | cying | :( |
| 06:02.03 | Paladine | cos I expect it is going to be very popularr and will suffer the Wii syndrome |
| 06:02.09 | Psi | hehe |
| 06:02.25 | Psi | but we will hopefully find out sooner than everyone else |
| 06:02.35 | Psi | since we are on the mailing lists etc |
| 06:03.18 | Psi | but yeh, once the news of its availability hits slashdot, your right :P |
| 06:03.48 | Paladine | its a nice thought not having to upgrade my phone every 12 months |
| 06:04.02 | Paladine | although I expect I would buy the next gen model when it comes out :) |
| 06:05.30 | Psi | the key will be to preorder it asap |
| 06:05.41 | Paladine | yeah |
| 06:05.54 | Paladine | thankfully I have a 2k limit on my credit card so that shouldn't be a problem :) |
| 06:06.15 | Psi | hehe, i have $1k sitting in my bank all ready for it :) |
| 06:06.38 | Paladine | well I have more in my bank, but I would only ever purchase from overseason my cc |
| 06:07.05 | Psi | yeah, ill be getting it from my cc too, but ill just transfer the money into the cc first |
| 06:07.08 | Paladine | free insurance :) |
| 06:07.32 | Psi | cc only has a $500 limit and thats NZ$ neo will be something like NZ$650 |
| 06:08.21 | Paladine | it will come in at around 185GBP |
| 06:08.27 | Paladine | for me |
| 06:08.30 | Psi | actually, exchange rate is good atm, its more like nz $505 |
| 06:09.02 | Paladine | I hope this dude gets rich from this |
| 06:09.05 | Psi | might not be that good when the phone comes out though |
| 06:09.06 | ciastek | NZ = New Zeland? |
| 06:09.08 | Psi | ya |
| 06:09.42 | Paladine | see everyone is complaining about the %500 pricetag on the iPhone |
| 06:09.49 | Psi | how much does a can of coke normally cost in the US? from a coke machine? |
| 06:09.53 | Paladine | now I wouldn't buy an iPhone for any amount of money |
| 06:09.59 | Paladine | all apple products are banned from my house |
| 06:10.00 | Psi | i wanna do a comparison |
| 06:10.07 | Paladine | but I would pay $500 for a true open linux phone |
| 06:10.20 | Paladine | s/%500/$500 |
| 06:10.21 | freak132 | the iPhone is 500$USD WITH contract, which is obscene |
| 06:10.44 | thedaniel | Psi: at my office i believe it is UDS0.65 |
| 06:10.50 | thedaniel | s/UD/USD |
| 06:10.55 | Paladine | freak132, well I hate apple with a passion, so I don't really care. The only thing apple does for me is provide me amusement by laughing at their consumers |
| 06:11.25 | thedaniel | hmm. maybe it's 75 or 85, i don't drink a lot of soda. let me ask officemates |
| 06:11.38 | Paladine | 75c last time I was in the US |
| 06:11.43 | Paladine | from a vending machine |
| 06:12.23 | Psi | its NZ$1.20 here, which is US$0.83 |
| 06:13.12 | Psi | so, looks to be pretty much the same, maybe a little more expensive |
| 06:13.13 | Paladine | it's about US$1.40 for a coke from a vending machine in the UK |
| 06:13.19 | thedaniel | HOT DAMN |
| 06:13.24 | thedaniel | that's insane |
| 06:13.27 | Paladine | for 330ml |
| 06:13.29 | Paladine | not a bottle |
| 06:13.30 | Psi | yeah, but UK is expensive |
| 06:13.37 | Paladine | yeah UK is very very expensive |
| 06:13.40 | Psi | they get higher wages to compensate |
| 06:13.45 | Paladine | we wish |
| 06:13.54 | Paladine | we have some of the lowest wages in the developed world |
| 06:14.01 | Paladine | and some of the highest taxes |
| 06:14.03 | thedaniel | i was in Paris a month ago and i think it was like 1 euro a can |
| 06:14.09 | thedaniel | which is a buck 30 US |
| 06:14.13 | ciastek | and only 50c in poland =] |
| 06:14.20 | thedaniel | *shakes fist at poland* |
| 06:14.22 | Psi | lol, lots of IT ppl in nz move to the uk because they get like twice as much money |
| 06:14.25 | thedaniel | ah, irc |
| 06:14.44 | Psi | they normally stay with frends there so as not to have to pay for acomedation |
| 06:14.47 | Paladine | Psi, only in London |
| 06:14.53 | Psi | possibly |
| 06:14.53 | Paladine | the UK is a lot bigger than London |
| 06:14.59 | Paladine | IT rates in the UK are terrible |
| 06:15.03 | Psi | ah |
| 06:15.08 | Paladine | I haveworked in the IT industry for 15 years |
| 06:15.23 | Paladine | I won't work for british companies |
| 06:15.25 | Paladine | they don't pay enough |
| 06:15.29 | Paladine | I work for US companies |
| 06:15.34 | Psi | so why is London so different to the rest of the uk? |
| 06:15.34 | thedaniel | yeah we have some irish guys that bitch about it |
| 06:15.50 | Paladine | London is like a different country compared to the rest of the UK |
| 06:15.54 | thedaniel | seems that unless you can get work writing big java banking apps you are making 20 euro an hour in the UK or something |
| 06:15.59 | Paladine | by law people have to be paid more in london |
| 06:16.01 | thedaniel | so they all telecommute |
| 06:16.02 | thedaniel | to the US |
| 06:16.04 | thedaniel | :) |
| 06:16.17 | Psi | haha |
| 06:16.25 | Paladine | thedaniel, not even that |
| 06:16.46 | Paladine | the average tech job in the UK outside of london will gross you between 20-30k GBP per year |
| 06:16.59 | thedaniel | sweet darwin's ghost |
| 06:17.10 | thedaniel | you can't buy crazy phones on that salary!! |
| 06:17.29 | Paladine | you can't buy a lot of anything on that |
| 06:17.47 | Paladine | specially since we pay ~70-80% tax |
| 06:18.23 | Paladine | if you work in London the law states they have to pay you London Weighting |
| 06:18.38 | Paladine | which basically translates to more money |
| 06:18.41 | Paladine | by law |
| 06:18.45 | Paladine | which is pretty fscked up |
| 06:19.21 | Whiz | 70-80% tax is quite high. howcome so much? |
| 06:19.32 | Paladine | because we get taxed on everything |
| 06:19.35 | Paladine | we even get taxed on tax |
| 06:19.54 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-191-125.cust.broadway.se) |
| 06:19.57 | Paladine | (literally) |
| 06:20.24 | thedaniel | Paladine: am i to assume you dont work in london? |
| 06:20.35 | Paladine | when you add all the taxes up and all th "stealth taxes" up, we pay ~70-80% of our gross income on tax |
| 06:20.49 | Paladine | god no I would never work in london again |
| 06:20.51 | Paladine | horrible place |
| 06:20.58 | Paladine | there is only place I hate more than london |
| 06:21.01 | Paladine | and thats paris |
| 06:21.47 | Paladine | last time I worked in London the company I worked for folded owing me 30k |
| 06:21.52 | Paladine | I would never go back |
| 06:22.36 | Psi | lol "<Paladine> we even get taxed on tax" |
| 06:22.37 | Paladine | I would rather chew off my own hand than work in london |
| 06:22.50 | Paladine | Psi, it would be funny if it wasn't true |
| 06:23.03 | Paladine | let me give you an example |
| 06:23.12 | Paladine | we pay ~80% tax on gasoline |
| 06:23.27 | Paladine | then we pay 17.5% sales tax on top of that |
| 06:23.35 | Psi | ah |
| 06:23.44 | Paladine | thats just 1 example |
| 06:23.53 | Psi | i think we have that too |
| 06:23.58 | Paladine | want a burger from macdonalds? |
| 06:24.07 | Paladine | we pay sales tax on the burger at 17.5% |
| 06:24.08 | Psi | eww |
| 06:24.15 | thedaniel | Paladine: why do you have paris so much? |
| 06:24.17 | Paladine | then if we want to eat the burger in macdonalds |
| 06:24.22 | Paladine | we pay another 17.5% sales tax |
| 06:24.25 | Psi | ours is 12.5% |
| 06:24.58 | Paladine | thedaniel, I was working there last summer, horrible place, dirty, over crowded, over priced |
| 06:25.01 | Whiz | ours depends on the product, in normal everyday stuff & services it is 22% |
| 06:25.28 | Paladine | we even pay tv tax |
| 06:25.44 | thedaniel | Paladine: then where in europe would you prefer to live? |
| 06:25.46 | Paladine | if you own a tv |
| 06:25.50 | Paladine | you have to pay an annual tax |
| 06:26.00 | Paladine | thedaniel, canada :) |
| 06:26.08 | thedaniel | Paladine: lolol |
| 06:26.10 | ciastek | europe :D |
| 06:26.26 | Paladine | if I had to live in europe and had a choice where, I would live in Germany |
| 06:26.33 | thedaniel | I'm thinking about my next home |
| 06:26.50 | thedaniel | i am wavering between san francisco and somewher ein europe but i have only been to italy and france |
| 06:26.51 | ciastek | but we talked today about huge customs in canada |
| 06:26.58 | Paladine | butthats only because I am half german and have family there |
| 06:27.08 | Paladine | if I didn't have family in germany, then sweden probably |
| 06:27.35 | Paladine | ciastek, the cost of living in canada comapred to the UK is like 3x cheaper |
| 06:27.43 | Paladine | wages are in line with british wages |
| 06:27.50 | Paladine | so I would be 3x better off |
| 06:28.14 | Paladine | an property/land in canada is much much much cheaper than the UK |
| 06:28.32 | Paladine | we have an 800 sq foot house in the UK (2 bedrooms) |
| 06:28.46 | Paladine | we could buy a 6000 sq foot home in canada with 10 acres for the same money |
| 06:29.44 | Paladine | we will be moving to canada soon as I finish my PhD |
| 06:29.57 | Paladine | and will live like royalty compared to the UK |
| 06:30.04 | ciastek | :] |
| 06:30.11 | Psi | hehe |
| 06:31.27 | Paladine | anyone know if the next gen will be 3G compatable? |
| 06:31.30 | Psi | the bad thing about nz is the internet plans :( |
| 06:31.38 | Paladine | yeah internet in NZsucks |
| 06:31.42 | Paladine | but you have all those sheep |
| 06:31.47 | Psi | hehe |
| 06:31.53 | Paladine | if you rigged them all with wireless APs in their collars |
| 06:32.02 | Paladine | you would have LAN speed internet |
| 06:32.16 | Psi | the internet situation will get much better in the next 5 years tho, since we just unbundled our local loop.. finally |
| 06:32.31 | Paladine | hopeit goes better for you guys than it did for us |
| 06:32.43 | CM | But the taxes are really high.. |
| 06:32.49 | Paladine | the LLU in the UK has been a joke from day 1 |
| 06:32.56 | Psi | hehe |
| 06:32.59 | Paladine | CM, but you are a welfare state |
| 06:33.05 | Paladine | you have excellent medical and education system |
| 06:33.11 | CM | For sure |
| 06:33.14 | Paladine | you have high unemployment benefits |
| 06:33.24 | Paladine | something like 70% your previous salary iirc? |
| 06:33.25 | CM | Too high in my oppinion |
| 06:33.33 | CM | 80% first year |
| 06:33.38 | Paladine | yeah thats high |
| 06:33.39 | CM | Then slowly lowering |
| 06:33.59 | Paladine | when Ilost my last job I went from $70k USD per year to $50 USD per week |
| 06:34.03 | Paladine | to support my family |
| 06:34.30 | CM | I know people who have no job, but still a nice apartment, a car and goes on vacation |
| 06:34.34 | thedaniel | Psi: i hear that the undersea link between nz/aus and the USA is made out of sheep's guts |
| 06:34.55 | CM | Then work for 6 months somewhere, then get laid off and just hang around for a year again |
| 06:34.58 | Paladine | you know what the definition of a new zealander is right? |
| 06:35.00 | CM | THat's just not right |
| 06:35.11 | CM | Has whool? |
| 06:35.15 | Paladine | naah |
| 06:35.20 | Paladine | intelligent australian ;) |
| 06:35.24 | CM | Hehe |
| 06:35.26 | Psi | thedaniel, yes, sheep's guts are the new fiber optic cable |
| 06:36.06 | Paladine | CM, you also have the pirate bay, which is worth liing in sweden for alone, even if it is just to laugh at their legal insults :) |
| 06:36.13 | CM | Hehe |
| 06:36.28 | Psi | honestly, we do have alot of sheep, but ya really wouldn't notice, they are all our in the country, ya dont see them much |
| 06:36.30 | CM | Yea, to be honest I actually voted for the pirate party |
| 06:36.42 | Paladine | :) |
| 06:36.48 | Psi | its not like they are running all over the roads in the city :P |
| 06:36.54 | CM | Mostly because I'm dead against the previous government |
| 06:37.14 | Psi | our=out |
| 06:37.17 | Paladine | Psi, I remember when I was in high school (just about) and back then according to our geography text books, there were 1000 head of sheep for every person in Nz |
| 06:37.21 | CM | I don't want wiretaps, logs of all calls, surveilance everywhere |
| 06:37.40 | Paladine | CM, you should get out of the EU then :) |
| 06:37.46 | Paladine | cos data retention laws are EU wide |
| 06:37.47 | CM | Heh, afraid so |
| 06:37.55 | CM | But surely not to the US |
| 06:38.05 | Paladine | didn't you know the US own the world? |
| 06:38.15 | CM | From the pot into the fire, or what's that saying? |
| 06:38.16 | CM | Hehe |
| 06:38.32 | Paladine | or at least they think they do |
| 06:38.41 | Paladine | they tried to sue me for $150M USD |
| 06:38.45 | Paladine | and I am a british citizen |
| 06:38.50 | CM | I've met many really nice americans, but they seem to be a minority |
| 06:39.00 | Paladine | most of my friends are americans |
| 06:39.07 | Psi | Paladine, its no were near that today, its about 13 sheep per person |
| 06:39.09 | Paladine | doesn't make their government suck any less though ;) |
| 06:39.19 | Psi | i dont know if it ever was 1000:1 |
| 06:39.23 | CM | Paladine: True |
| 06:39.28 | Paladine | Psi, this was back in 1986 |
| 06:39.41 | CM | Can't believe they voted him back. It's like a bad joke |
| 06:39.42 | Psi | yeah, i dunno about back then |
| 06:41.05 | CM | Hmm.. Maybe we're hijacking the channel now. |
| 06:41.25 | CM | I mean, this is "OpenMoko Developer Lounge" :) |
| 06:41.43 | Paladine | dunno about that no-one else seems to be awake |
| 06:42.03 | Psi | ok, does anyone know if the neo has a loud enough speaker for handsfree? |
| 06:42.13 | Paladine | if someone chats in a channel and there is no-one awake, does it make a sound? |
| 06:42.30 | Psi | or a GPS navigation voice etc. |
| 06:42.35 | Paladine | Psi, it has duel 12mW speakers iirc |
| 06:42.52 | Psi | duel as in stereo? |
| 06:42.57 | CM | Psi: That would be cool :-) |
| 06:43.05 | Paladine | actually my mistake |
| 06:43.08 | Paladine | 12mW battery |
| 06:43.12 | Paladine | 1W speakers |
| 06:43.14 | Psi | hehe |
| 06:43.20 | Paladine | and yes stereo |
| 06:43.33 | Paladine | "It also has two 1W stereo speakers so you can repurpose it to an MP3 player or anything else you would like." |
| 06:43.42 | Psi | nice |
| 06:44.00 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:44.23 | CM | Scott Adams (dilbert blog) wrote something really funny about his gps.. |
| 06:44.35 | Psi | you can, select a destination, put it in your pocket, and it can direct you to the location using a voice synthesizer :P |
| 06:44.50 | CM | It's been my best car yet, thanks to my low standards. My only complaint is that the navigation unit is stuck on "shout." It's normally a soothing female voice. But when that voice is stuck in banshee mode, you don't know if you should turn left or divorce it and give it your house. I'll be happy if they can just dial it back to "nagging harpy" mode. |
| 06:45.09 | Paladine | hehehe |
| 06:45.15 | Psi | hehe, your phone says "Ive detected someone else with a neo, they are 15 meters to your left |
| 06:45.22 | Paladine | I have to buy the neo |
| 06:45.23 | CM | It can't be easy to get a voice that you won't be tired of |
| 06:45.27 | CM | :) |
| 06:45.35 | Paladine | not just because all sony, microsoft and apple products are banned from my house |
| 06:45.46 | Paladine | not just because I run all my systems on linux |
| 06:45.51 | CM | Paladine: Heh, same here |
| 06:46.07 | Paladine | not just because I constantly fight in the political arena for more open source solutions in the public sector |
| 06:46.09 | CM | Do have a SE k750 phone though, but it's dying |
| 06:46.17 | Paladine | but also because I was born in 1973 |
| 06:46.24 | Paladine | so the name is designed with me in mind :) |
| 06:46.27 | *** join/#openmoko mindcrusher[ro] (n=chatzill@astrofizica.fizica.unibuc.ro) |
| 06:46.29 | CM | Hehe |
| 06:48.09 | Paladine | and of course, I want to gloat at all the (HonestIAmNotStealingCisco'sTrademark)Phone users |
| 06:50.19 | Paladine | they should change the name of the iPhone to iOwnAllYourBasesPhone |
| 06:51.07 | CM | It is shiny, but that's all |
| 06:51.35 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 06:51.45 | Paladine | the sun is shiney, but would you put it in your breast poocket? |
| 06:51.50 | Paladine | pocket |
| 06:52.14 | CM | Nope, and I sure as hell can't install anything on it ;) |
| 06:52.22 | Psi | hehe, im sure ppl will write apps for the neo, that do everything the iphone can do and more |
| 06:52.38 | Paladine | I wonder ifit will run beryl ;) |
| 06:52.43 | ciastek | :D |
| 06:52.43 | CM | One thing that I do like though is that Apple TV thing |
| 06:52.52 | Paladine | oh god the apple tv is aweful |
| 06:52.54 | CM | it would be great for mythtv |
| 06:53.02 | Paladine | not only are they gonna drm all your itunes music |
| 06:53.08 | Paladine | but they are gonna drm everything you watch too |
| 06:53.19 | Paladine | it wouldn't work with mythtv |
| 06:53.24 | Paladine | it has crappy hardware |
| 06:53.35 | Paladine | <- running mythtv and watching it as we speak |
| 06:53.41 | CM | 1ghz pentium-m |
| 06:53.43 | CM | Not enough? |
| 06:53.51 | CM | Also a gforce7600go |
| 06:53.53 | Paladine | it is clocked down to 350MHz fsb |
| 06:54.02 | Paladine | and the graphics is only 64MB |
| 06:54.14 | Paladine | and itis closed source |
| 06:54.22 | CM | Yes, but that's just the fsb isn't it? or is the cpu running that speed to? |
| 06:54.43 | Paladine | not sure what speed the CPU is actually running at |
| 06:54.49 | Paladine | but it has been underclocked |
| 06:55.09 | CM | I think it's 1ghz, and that's surely better than a 1ghz epia |
| 06:55.18 | Paladine | it doesn't even do 1080i/p |
| 06:55.34 | CM | True, but I only have a plasma anyway :) |
| 06:55.36 | CM | And it |
| 06:55.41 | CM | 's dirt cheap |
| 06:55.49 | Paladine | I wouldn't say it is cheap |
| 06:55.54 | Paladine | Ibuilt my htpc cheaper |
| 06:56.01 | Paladine | and it has better kit in it |
| 06:56.16 | CM | < 300$? |
| 06:56.31 | Paladine | I am in the UK, the Apple TV is not < $300 in the UK |
| 06:56.46 | CM | True, then it's EUR |
| 06:56.48 | CM | But still |
| 06:56.52 | Paladine | no |
| 06:56.55 | Paladine | it is GBP |
| 06:57.03 | CM | Heh, bummer |
| 06:57.03 | Paladine | andit will be about 2x as expensive as it is in the US |
| 06:57.32 | Paladine | and it is 100% not compatable with mythtv from what I have heard the mythtv devs saying |
| 06:57.42 | CM | That I can imagine |
| 06:58.01 | CM | But I'd be surprised if they didn't get it working on it later on |
| 06:58.58 | Paladine | non of the mythtv people I know (and I know a lot, been hanging in their channel on freenode for the better part of a year) wouldn't even be remotely interested in supporting Apple by buying their crap to try and get mythtv running on it |
| 07:00.53 | CM | That's true, unfortunally. I like the design on most apple things, but the control obsession sucks |
| 07:00.58 | CM | Just like sony |
| 07:03.42 | Paladine | did I mention -all- sony, apple and microsoft products are -banned- from my house? |
| 07:04.02 | CM | Yes, same here |
| 07:04.11 | Paladine | I made my friend leave his vistafied vaio in his car last week when he visited |
| 07:04.23 | CM | Hehe |
| 07:04.38 | Psi | got them from the a shop that sells stuff that has been repossessed |
| 07:05.02 | Psi | cheap stuff ftw |
| 07:05.18 | Paladine | Iwouldn't accept a sony product if someone gave it to me for free |
| 07:05.22 | Psi | hehe |
| 07:05.37 | Paladine | I'd tell them to sell it and give the money to charity |
| 07:05.40 | CM | Not even a nice 50" Bravia? |
| 07:05.46 | Psi | this is tv/vcr/hi-fi unit |
| 07:05.50 | Paladine | nope not even a 50" bravia |
| 07:06.06 | Paladine | I live my life based on principles |
| 07:06.20 | Paladine | and I don't bend my principles for nothing |
| 07:06.49 | CM | Heh, same reason I don't have a car and buy ecological stuff ;) |
| 07:07.42 | Paladine | I have a car but I have no choice on that |
| 07:08.03 | Paladine | and Ibought it used |
| 07:08.19 | Psi | i would never buy a brand new car |
| 07:08.35 | Psi | its like twice the price as a used one thats 1 month old |
| 07:09.05 | CM | Ford sucks |
| 07:09.24 | CM | And don't get me started on this SOx crap.. *sigh* |
| 07:09.29 | Paladine | well Ihave an adult dependent who needs to be transported by car |
| 07:09.32 | Paladine | so I have to have a car |
| 07:09.45 | CM | I live alone, in the city |
| 07:09.51 | Psi | nz has really cheap cars, cos we get all the jap imports, you can get an average car that looks fine, and will last for atleast 5 years for under US$700 here |
| 07:10.01 | CM | So I can make that choice. |
| 07:10.20 | Psi | but you would be better to spend abit more than that :P |
| 07:10.53 | CM | All I know about cars in nz is my friends renting from "Rent a wreck" |
| 07:11.06 | Psi | haha |
| 07:11.11 | CM | Man, that was the worst picece of crap on 2 wheels I've ever seen |
| 07:11.37 | Psi | did it break down on him? or just look bad? |
| 07:11.47 | CM | You had to keep the feet on the pedals because the floor was partly missing |
| 07:11.58 | CM | But it did run.. |
| 07:12.01 | Psi | that sounds pretty illegal |
| 07:12.24 | CM | They had some piece of wood in there first, but it fell out |
| 07:12.40 | CM | They were a bit low on cars when they got there |
| 07:13.06 | Psi | its actually cheaper if your coming to nz, to not use a rental company at all, just goto an auction and pay the money you would have paid to the rental company |
| 07:13.46 | Psi | well.. , i mean, you get a better car, and can put it back in the auction when your ready to leave |
| 07:14.03 | CM | :-) |
| 07:14.15 | CM | I'd like to go there some day |
| 07:15.07 | Psi | :) not that im recommending doing that car thing, just a good example of how cheap cars are here |
| 07:15.13 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:19.45 | CM | Wonder what it would take to put mono on the moko: http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2007/Jan-17.html |
| 07:20.23 | Tv | eww mono fanboys |
| 07:20.37 | CM | Hehe |
| 07:20.43 | Tv | you can't cram all the frameworks in the world in an *embedded* device |
| 07:21.15 | CM | I know, and I really wonder why they would run mono on a mp3-player |
| 07:21.22 | Tv | and of all the architectures, why would you go with one that microsoft controls? |
| 07:21.44 | Tv | CM: because Novell is paying for it and they have ulterior motives. |
| 07:23.20 | CM | I'm not convinced of that yet, but it sure was a really stupid thing that patent M$ deal |
| 07:23.33 | Tv | Let's just say that Novell is not an open source company. |
| 07:23.40 | Tv | Sure, they might dabble with Linux now. |
| 07:24.27 | CM | Agreed |
| 07:24.32 | benJIman | Novell are one of the few linux companies that respects the GPL and community |
| 07:24.42 | benJIman | while others like canonical just ignore it |
| 07:25.46 | CM | What about Fluendo and their codec shop? |
| 07:26.11 | ciastek | benJIman, what about this novell/canonical? |
| 07:26.36 | benJIman | What about what? |
| 07:29.14 | ciastek | about that novell respects gpl, and canonical ignores it |
| 07:29.51 | Paladine | eh? |
| 07:29.59 | Paladine | canonical doesn't ignore gpl lol |
| 07:30.31 | Paladine | and novell are a bunch of asshats imo |
| 07:30.52 | benJIman | Paladine: they are violating GPL yes |
| 07:31.02 | Paladine | care to explain how? |
| 07:31.18 | benJIman | Distributing packages in violation of GPL, that link against GPLed libraries but arn't GPL |
| 07:31.32 | Paladine | like what? |
| 07:31.41 | benJIman | Nvidia drivers, madwifi etc |
| 07:31.56 | Paladine | which nvidia drivers? |
| 07:32.04 | Paladine | the proprietry ones? |
| 07:32.09 | benJIman | Indeed |
| 07:32.20 | Paladine | howis that canonical breaking gpl? |
| 07:32.27 | Paladine | the nvidia drivers are not gpl |
| 07:32.27 | benJIman | They are distributing them |
| 07:32.32 | benJIman | but Linux is |
| 07:32.35 | Paladine | thats doesn't matter a crap |
| 07:32.36 | benJIman | nvidia shim links to linux |
| 07:32.38 | benJIman | yes it does |
| 07:32.46 | benJIman | Link to GPL you have to abide by GPL |
| 07:32.47 | buz | only installing them by default would break the gpl |
| 07:32.52 | Paladine | GPL does not say you cannot distribute properietry drivers |
| 07:32.55 | benJIman | buz: no, distribution is enough |
| 07:32.58 | buz | the user itself breaking it is none of canonicals business |
| 07:33.03 | benJIman | Paladine: it does if they link against GPLed libraries |
| 07:33.10 | buz | like what library |
| 07:33.11 | benJIman | buz: this is a distribution issue |
| 07:33.20 | benJIman | the shim links against GPLed kernel libs |
| 07:33.24 | Paladine | the proprietry drivers use nvidia's libraries you fool |
| 07:33.38 | benJIman | Paladine: no, go read the source to the shim, the source is available but it is not GPL |
| 07:33.40 | buz | the shim is gpld |
| 07:33.43 | cbpage | the nvidia driver is covered by kernel module exception (for now?) |
| 07:33.44 | benJIman | no it is not |
| 07:33.51 | benJIman | buz: go read the licence on it, it is nvidia proprietary |
| 07:33.52 | cbpage | hence the concept of "tainted" kernels |
| 07:34.08 | *** join/#openmoko mindcrusher[ro] (n=chatzill@astrofizica.fizica.unibuc.ro) |
| 07:34.12 | buz | even torvalds himself doesnt give a crap |
| 07:34.15 | benJIman | cbpage: no, loading itself would not be a problem necessarily (that is a grey area) but the shim links against GPLed libraries |
| 07:34.24 | Paladine | benjamin, even if under your strange conception of the rules, tit is in breach of gpl |
| 07:34.27 | Paladine | they don't ship it |
| 07:34.33 | benJIman | buz: Torvalds is not the only copyright holder, many of htem do |
| 07:34.49 | benJIman | Paladine: No, it would be equivalent to any other GPL violation |
| 07:34.56 | Paladine | Nvidia is -not- the default drivers for ubuntu |
| 07:34.57 | benJIman | they are linking against GPLed libraries, GPL does not allow this |
| 07:35.00 | benJIman | lgpl would |
| 07:35.08 | buz | the kernel is not a library |
| 07:35.10 | Paladine | vesa are default drivers for ubuntu |
| 07:35.10 | benJIman | Paladine: but they distribute them, and by distributing them they violate GPL |
| 07:35.19 | Paladine | no they don't distribute them |
| 07:35.21 | benJIman | buz: kernel includes libraries which the nvidia shim links to |
| 07:35.26 | Paladine | they are available in the non free repos |
| 07:35.26 | benJIman | Paladine: they do |
| 07:35.30 | benJIman | which is distribution |
| 07:35.35 | Paladine | no it isn't |
| 07:35.37 | benJIman | Yes it is |
| 07:35.40 | Paladine | no it isn't |
| 07:35.43 | Paladine | it is availablity |
| 07:35.43 | benJIman | By any legal interpretation |
| 07:35.47 | Paladine | no it is not |
| 07:35.51 | buz | then why dont novell and canonical get sued for it |
| 07:36.01 | buz | (novell does the same) |
| 07:36.08 | cbpage | nobody's bothered enough aparently |
| 07:36.10 | benJIman | If I make available my extensive film collection that is distribution and I could be sued accordingly |
| 07:36.15 | cbpage | it dosen't touch harold's code iirc ;0 |
| 07:36.16 | cbpage | ;) |
| 07:36.16 | Paladine | yes suse also have the nvidia drivers in their package repos |
| 07:36.17 | benJIman | buz: Novell does /not/ do the same |
| 07:36.26 | benJIman | Novell does not distribute anything GPL violating or patent violating |
| 07:36.31 | Tv | benJIman: the whole whether kernel api is exempt discussion is still pretty much open; you can't pick one side and assume you are correct |
| 07:36.34 | Paladine | benJIman, stop talking arse, you look stupid when you do |
| 07:36.36 | buz | ROTFL |
| 07:36.40 | benJIman | Paladine: SUSE most definately do not and never had distributed nvidia drivers |
| 07:36.46 | buz | pretty much all software out there is in violation of patents |
| 07:36.50 | buz | (not that i care one bit) |
| 07:37.00 | benJIman | Paladine: NVIDIA host a repository for SUSE with drivers for suse, that is not Novell distributing anything |
| 07:37.45 | benJIman | Tv: I am not referring to loading non-gpl modules, that is a legal grey area, linking against GPLed libraries is not a grey area, it has been proven in court to be in violation |
| 07:37.49 | Paladine | dude you have a pretty twisted and warped view of reality |
| 07:38.42 | Tv | benJIman: uh, what exectly are the non-gpl and gpl components you speak of, then? |
| 07:38.45 | Paladine | let me just point something out for you |
| 07:38.47 | Paladine | if I have suse |
| 07:38.57 | Paladine | and I contact suse support and ask them where to get nvidia drivers |
| 07:39.00 | Paladine | they will tell me |
| 07:39.05 | benJIman | Tv: the Nvidia shim, the source is available, but not GPLed, or gpl compatable, or even open source by any defintion |
| 07:39.10 | Paladine | and that sir, is absolutely no different to linking directly to them |
| 07:39.14 | Tv | benJIman: so what's the gpl component? |
| 07:39.14 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=rob_w@p549B9475.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:39.18 | benJIman | Paladine: linking is not violation of anything |
| 07:39.25 | benJIman | Paladine: but they are not distributing ,nvidia are |
| 07:39.33 | Paladine | linking sir, in the eyes of the law -is- |
| 07:39.52 | benJIman | google link to a vast amount of material that is illegal to distribute, what's your point |
| 07:39.57 | Tv | Paladine: not if the end user does the linking |
| 07:40.09 | Paladine | speaking as someone who got sued $150 million USD for "LINKING" people sharing movies, I happen to know this for a fact |
| 07:40.24 | Tv | oh crap, now you're using "linking" to mean both libraries and web links |
| 07:40.28 | Tv | this discussion is going nowhere |
| 07:40.32 | Psi | ive not been paying much attention to the convo, but are you both talking about linking in the same terms? as in 'ln -s' or 'url linking'? |
| 07:40.47 | Tv | Psi: whoa, third meaning for linking |
| 07:40.54 | Psi | hehe |
| 07:40.54 | benJIman | Paladine: that is an entirely different situation |
| 07:40.58 | Paladine | there is only one definition for link |
| 07:41.04 | Paladine | no it isn't |
| 07:41.10 | benJIman | Paladine: linking to people sharing movies would be abetting copyright infringement |
| 07:41.24 | Paladine | I never said I linked to people sharing movies |
| 07:41.26 | benJIman | Paladine: users installing nvidia drivers is not copyright infringement, and novell linking does not aid nvidia's copyright infringement |
| 07:41.29 | Paladine | I said I linked people sharing movies |
| 07:41.43 | benJIman | the point holds |
| 07:41.54 | benJIman | Installing nvidia drivers is not in violation of anything |
| 07:41.58 | benJIman | GPL only restricts distribution |
| 07:42.00 | Paladine | ben, you sir are a biggoted ass and exactly the reason I would never install novell |
| 07:42.38 | Psi | keep your anger towards benJIman pls as im also a ben :P |
| 07:42.49 | Paladine | canonical has done more to get linux into the mainstream in the last 2 years than novell has done in the last 15 years |
| 07:43.11 | Paladine | sorry Psi :) |
| 07:43.25 | Psi | :) |
| 07:43.27 | benJIman | That is obviously entirely down to your preconceptions, as Novell employ far more developers on Free software, have consistently freed a great deal of software in the past few years, contribute to nearly every major free software project, while canonical ride roughshod over the community, hardly contributing anything back and violating GPL wherever it suits them |
| 07:43.43 | Paladine | and canonical didn't go and sign a deal with Billy Boy and piss off 99% of the entire linux community |
| 07:44.05 | benJIman | A deal which is 100% in compliance with the GPL, if you have an irrational hatred of microsoft that's your problem. |
| 07:44.13 | Psi | i must be in the 1% i dont know about this deal with billy boy |
| 07:44.26 | Paladine | I couldn't give a flying roasarie if it complies with GPL |
| 07:44.28 | Paladine | it was wrong |
| 07:44.45 | benJIman | wrong for what reason, you don't like microsoft? |
| 07:45.01 | Paladine | I absolutely abhore microsoft to the very fibre of my being |
| 07:45.13 | Psi | ah, billy boy = ms hehe, should have spotted that |
| 07:45.13 | Paladine | as do 99% of the people who decide to use linux |
| 07:45.14 | benJIman | Well I feel sorry for you] |
| 07:45.24 | Paladine | you can feel sorry for me as much as you lke |
| 07:45.24 | benJIman | microsoft probably contribute more to free software than canonical |
| 07:45.35 | benJIman | they produce quite a bit from their research labs now |
| 07:45.45 | Paladine | and that makes them not evil? |
| 07:45.51 | Tv | and how much of that ends up on my laptop... |
| 07:46.03 | benJIman | They are not as evil as you think |
| 07:46.10 | Paladine | I have been unix/linux for nigh on 20 years |
| 07:46.26 | Paladine | I have made most of my money working with MS products |
| 07:46.29 | benJIman | anyway I really have to go to work |
| 07:46.31 | Paladine | so I am not some noob |
| 07:46.32 | benJIman | *gone* |
| 07:47.20 | Paladine | ahh come in talking crap without sibstantiation, but then as soon as someone starts talking about novell's inpropriteries you conveniently have to go to work |
| 07:47.38 | Tv | well that would suck as a method of procrastination |
| 07:48.04 | Paladine | wassat tv? |
| 07:48.15 | Tv | losing an argument as procrastination ;) |
| 07:50.13 | Paladine | personally I could care less if canonical are upsetting some gpl zealots by linking to nvidia so people can actually use linux with proprietry stable drivers (oh did I forget more fully featured) or linking to some proprietry wifi drivers so people can use their networks |
| 07:50.29 | Tv | personally I'm not buying nvidia, period |
| 07:50.44 | Paladine | I would rather buy nvidia than ati |
| 07:50.54 | Paladine | at least nvidia make a genuine effort to support the linux community |
| 07:50.55 | Tv | I'm perfectly happy with my open source-friendly intel graphics chip. |
| 07:51.09 | Paladine | I won't buy anything intel unfortunately |
| 07:51.14 | Tv | Paladine: by screwing the community over? |
| 07:51.20 | Tv | intel is doing decent work with linux drivers |
| 07:51.25 | Tv | they actually develop them in house *gasp* |
| 07:51.34 | Tv | as *open source* and *properly integrated* |
| 07:51.36 | Tv | *gasp* |
| 07:51.37 | Paladine | I refuse to support intel period because of their antitrust activities |
| 07:51.51 | ciastek | its actually so hard to find computer which you can buy Paladine :] |
| 07:51.57 | Tv | well yes with that line of reasoning you can't buy from any big company ever |
| 07:52.06 | Paladine | I can |
| 07:52.13 | Paladine | I just have to choose the lesser of evils |
| 07:52.20 | Tv | and you pick nvidia? |
| 07:52.22 | Tv | oh man, priorities |
| 07:52.23 | *** join/#openmoko jon_ (n=jon@98.75.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 07:52.26 | Paladine | so I buy AMD and Nvidia |
| 07:52.40 | Paladine | well I refuse to support ATI |
| 07:52.45 | Paladine | and I refuse to support intel |
| 07:52.50 | Paladine | so I have no other choise really |
| 07:52.56 | cbpage | to make things even more confusing amd owns ati now |
| 07:53.11 | Paladine | yes AMD do, but I still wouldn't buy ATI |
| 07:53.20 | Psi | me neither |
| 07:53.25 | Paladine | not until there is a real effort to support linux |
| 07:53.29 | Psi | i bought an ati card once, never again |
| 07:53.35 | cbpage | yeah - i work on a laptop saddled with an x1300 chip |
| 07:53.38 | Psi | and i only bought it for 2D! |
| 07:53.46 | Psi | couldnt even do that right |
| 07:54.04 | cbpage | if i could hack out the chip and magically make the 945mp into an mg i would ;) |
| 07:54.13 | Psi | it was a 9200se tho, so not exactly a good card :P |
| 07:54.23 | cbpage | 9200se at least has free linux drivers |
| 07:54.41 | cbpage | although 9200se = crippled lower/mid end card |
| 07:54.41 | Psi | yeah, it ended up in my linux box |
| 07:54.52 | Paladine | I don't have issues with proprietry software |
| 07:55.14 | Paladine | I don't see why people can't make money out of software if they want to |
| 07:55.18 | cbpage | i do with the fglrx driverset. :P |
| 07:55.23 | Tv | make money != proprietary |
| 07:55.29 | Paladine | yes I know |
| 07:55.32 | Paladine | and I never said it was |
| 07:55.38 | Paladine | and I never finished either |
| 07:55.51 | Tv | I'm happy for people to make money but steer away from proprietary if that is at all possible. |
| 07:55.59 | Paladine | I don;t see a problem with software being closed source either |
| 07:56.05 | Tv | I especially hate mixing open and proprietary, that always leads to problems. |
| 07:56.13 | Paladine | so long as the consumer has a choice |
| 07:56.14 | Tv | The open side evolves and the proprietary side gets stuck. |
| 07:56.27 | Paladine | if I want to use linux, then I will buy hardware I know is supported |
| 07:56.39 | Paladine | whether that is with open or proprietry drivers, I don't mind |
| 07:56.55 | Paladine | solongas it is supported |
| 07:56.56 | sannes | I hate it when I have to wait to upgrade my kernel because of some stupid binary blob .. "Supports linux" .. yeah, right.. |
| 07:56.59 | Tv | proprietary drivers means that if something doesn't work, you can't figure out the reason |
| 07:57.01 | Tv | and can't fix it |
| 07:57.05 | Tv | hence, tainted kernels |
| 07:57.08 | Tv | that's horrible |
| 07:57.23 | Paladine | tv, but the world will never be open |
| 07:57.29 | Paladine | that is not in the nature of humans |
| 07:57.36 | Paladine | there will always be a mix |
| 07:57.43 | Tv | the subset of the world I live in has been getting increasingly open |
| 07:57.44 | Paladine | and there is nothing anyone can do to change that |
| 07:58.06 | Tv | so I see no reason why it couldn't become fully open |
| 07:58.11 | Paladine | well what about your chipset drivers for your motherboard? |
| 07:58.25 | Tv | It's intel all the way |
| 07:58.26 | sannes | yeah, I don't touch propritary kernel code at all these days .. |
| 07:58.28 | Tv | thinkpad x60s |
| 07:58.33 | Paladine | and then what about your BIOS (yes I know there is a linux bios in dev but it still won't kill the closed bios) |
| 07:58.47 | ciastek | cant wait for open computer |
| 07:58.56 | sannes | I hate my BIOS :) |
| 07:58.57 | Tv | I'm willing to accept proprietary BIOS as it pretty much just hands over control to open things |
| 07:59.01 | Paladine | but willit ever happen? |
| 07:59.08 | Paladine | will the legislators let it ? |
| 07:59.09 | Paladine | no |
| 07:59.20 | Tv | not like anyone would jump to BIOS for output much these days |
| 07:59.23 | Paladine | everything will be required by law to have "trusted" computing |
| 07:59.42 | Tv | pffgt |
| 07:59.52 | Paladine | if you want to change it, sitting here whining about an nvidia driver isn't going to make a single bit of difference |
| 07:59.56 | Paladine | get politically active |
| 07:59.56 | Tv | I do not believe that scenario. |
| 08:00.00 | Paladine | that is th eonly way to change it |
| 08:00.01 | ciastek | the more trusted computing will be, the more ppl would like to get alternative imo |
| 08:00.16 | Paladine | ciastek, it doesn't matter what people would like |
| 08:00.30 | Paladine | with the content providers paying congress to write their own laws |
| 08:00.33 | Paladine | you have no choice |
| 08:00.53 | Paladine | the only way to move towards a truly open and free system |
| 08:00.56 | Paladine | is to get political |
| 08:01.08 | Paladine | no amount of whining about the GPL is going to make any difference |
| 08:01.27 | ciastek | so we all need to move to sealand ;) |
| 08:01.39 | Tv | I think the best way to get things open is to demonstrate to more and more people that open = good |
| 08:02.00 | Paladine | Tv, you don't seem to get the point, it doesn't matter a damn what you show you the people |
| 08:02.02 | Tv | when you have e.g. all the schools using open software |
| 08:02.10 | Paladine | if you don't tell the politicians or vote pro-actively |
| 08:02.15 | Tv | the government can't screw them as easily |
| 08:02.16 | Paladine | it won't make any difference |
| 08:02.30 | Paladine | you need to read my blog :p |
| 08:02.36 | Paladine | I deal with this stuff every day of my life |
| 08:02.39 | Tv | sad |
| 08:02.42 | Paladine | from a political arena |
| 08:02.46 | ciastek | Paladine, but politicans takes care about what ppl do. i mean - about their votes |
| 08:02.55 | Paladine | incorrect |
| 08:03.12 | Paladine | a politician is interested in his voters but only to the point of having just enough to win |
| 08:03.26 | Paladine | and only for like 3 months of every 4 years |
| 08:03.38 | Paladine | the rest of the time they are interested in lobbies |
| 08:03.46 | Paladine | thats where they get their money |
| 08:03.52 | Tv | ... in the US |
| 08:03.52 | Paladine | thats whats funds their campaigns |
| 08:03.57 | Paladine | not just in the US |
| 08:04.09 | Paladine | although the US is the most obvious example |
| 08:04.12 | Tv | you'd be amazed to see how many things are *not* like the US |
| 08:04.24 | Paladine | I am not american |
| 08:04.29 | Paladine | and I don't live in the US |
| 08:04.34 | Paladine | I live in the real world |
| 08:04.45 | Paladine | and there is as much lobbying in Europe as there is anywhere else in the world |
| 08:04.47 | *** join/#openmoko xkr47 (i=xkr47@hoas-fe1bdd00-219.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 08:04.54 | sannes | Paladine: are you a TROLL ? :D |
| 08:04.55 | cying | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo&eurl= |
| 08:05.06 | Tv | *yaawn* |
| 08:05.14 | Tv | so has anyone done anything interesting with openembedded? |
| 08:05.27 | Paladine | sannes, a troll? no not at all, I am not the one who came in shouting about canonical being all evil and novelle being the next mesiah |
| 08:05.33 | Tv | I'm still fighting with qemu / the filesystem built by gpe-image |
| 08:05.36 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.122.63.17) |
| 08:05.40 | Tv | qemuarm makes my qemu crash |
| 08:05.47 | Tv | qemux86 works but the fs seems to not boot |
| 08:06.01 | Paladine | sannes, I dedicate my life to fighting for consumer rights and pushing open solutions |
| 08:06.04 | Paladine | but I am also a realist |
| 08:06.31 | Tv | or is this channel for just talking shit about things that are not embedded linux phones? |
| 08:06.39 | Paladine | and I am also very passionate about my work |
| 08:07.49 | sannes | Paladine: well, you seem to be in a trolling mood, disregarding others arguments with "no you just don't know what is going on" .. which seems a little bit sad, anyways .. I didn't read the canoical vs novell debate to carefully, .. |
| 08:08.38 | Paladine | I haven't disregarded any arguments |
| 08:08.42 | Paladine | Ihaven't heard one |
| 08:08.50 | Paladine | all I have seen is fantasy |
| 08:08.58 | Tv | well yes that goes both ways |
| 08:09.05 | Tv | I hereby label what Paladine says as "fantasy" |
| 08:09.32 | Tv | if you want to get political, please do |
| 08:09.38 | Tv | also, this is #openmoko |
| 08:09.50 | *** join/#openmoko xkr47 (i=xkr47@hoas-fe1bdd00-219.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 08:09.51 | Paladine | Tv, I never started the discussion |
| 08:09.54 | Paladine | Imerely contributed to it |
| 08:10.08 | Tv | (10:05:20 AM) Tv: *yaawn* |
| 08:10.08 | Tv | (10:05:27 AM) Tv: so has anyone done anything interesting with openembedded? |
| 08:10.32 | sannes | I take it no annoucement yet ? |
| 08:10.43 | Paladine | tomorrow apparantly |
| 08:11.53 | sannes | right now I'm more excited about what is going to be in the hackers lunch box than the phone (been excited about that for a couple of months) .. |
| 08:15.39 | hyakuhei | heh, I found out about the openmoko after I knew about the green phone and the iPhone, now I'm all conflicted :-S |
| 08:15.57 | thedaniel | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:16.04 | xkr47 | morning |
| 08:16.05 | Tv | hyakuhei: rule #1: green phone is sdk and prototype only, it's not intended to be a usable phone |
| 08:16.16 | hyakuhei | True enough |
| 08:16.24 | Tv | green phone is meant to be a tool for phone vendors making their phones with Qt UI |
| 08:16.28 | hyakuhei | doesn't stop *me* wanting one though |
| 08:16.37 | Tv | hyakuhei: it'll likely suck batterywise etc |
| 08:16.45 | hyakuhei | Indeed |
| 08:17.24 | Elephantman | hello :) |
| 08:18.07 | hyakuhei | hey Elephantman |
| 08:20.19 | jon_ | is there a chance for wifi to be intergraded into the phone |
| 08:21.02 | thedaniel | not the neo1973 |
| 08:21.08 | thedaniel | but maybe version 2 or 3 |
| 08:21.11 | thedaniel | down the road... |
| 08:22.05 | Tv | all I know I have an extra laptop and a bluetooth dongle |
| 08:22.22 | Tv | and my main laptop has bluetooth |
| 08:22.29 | thedaniel | Tv: your other x60 doesn't have bluetooth? |
| 08:22.31 | thedaniel | i'm surprised |
| 08:22.34 | Tv | it does |
| 08:22.39 | Tv | I no longer have that |
| 08:22.43 | Tv | I'm talking about an ibook |
| 08:22.49 | thedaniel | oic |
| 08:22.57 | Tv | == bluetooth net working at home and whenever I have laptop open and wifi |
| 08:23.31 | thedaniel | sweet - i generally connect to the internet with my mind these days |
| 08:23.52 | Tv | yes, we've noticed the antenna is close to your brain |
| 08:23.54 | Tv | *fry* |
| 08:24.00 | thedaniel | but yeah, i have an ibook with a BT dongle as my 'sit at home and do stuff' machine |
| 08:24.04 | thedaniel | lol |
| 08:24.24 | thedaniel | so i'm set for non-EDGE internubz at home as well |
| 08:24.42 | thedaniel | this should be promoted to folks that freak out about the lack of wifi in this chan or on the ml |
| 08:24.57 | xkr47 | can the moko control whether charging is allowed or not ? |
| 08:28.07 | *** join/#openmoko ciastek (n=ciastek@procent.miedzylesie.waw.pl) |
| 08:30.34 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:49.59 | rob_w | xkr47, when is this exspected ? |
| 08:50.20 | rob_w | CM, actually , when is this exspected ? |
| 08:51.24 | *** join/#openmoko mesut` (n=power@unaffiliated/mesut) |
| 08:51.31 | *** join/#openmoko loft306 (n=^_^@tuxhacker/pdpc.supporter.sustaining.loft306) |
| 08:52.17 | CM | rob_w: The 0.8.3 release is coming between jan and feb, but 0.8.4 (with the gcc4 support) I don't know. |
| 08:52.39 | CM | Only what I heard some devs say |
| 08:53.49 | rob_w | hmm it really bugs me .. seems gcc4 is a real big thing for qemu |
| 08:55.40 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84-122-63-17.onocable.ono.com) |
| 09:00.31 | hrw | qemu gcc4 compatible???? FinallY |
| 09:00.49 | CM | There's some patches around for it at least |
| 09:01.00 | CM | And supposedly amd64 works fine |
| 09:01.15 | *** join/#openmoko mindcrusher[ro] (n=chatzill@astrofizica.fizica.unibuc.ro) |
| 09:05.00 | xkr47 | what kind of merits do you need to get the sdk early (by mailing the moko guys).. there was something on the web that you could list prior opensource stuff you've been involved in |
| 09:05.22 | xkr47 | I mean I would be interested in the sdk surely but I don't want to waste their time by asking if I'm way too n00b for them |
| 09:05.47 | CM | I'm thinking the same |
| 09:08.38 | hrw | did someone here use(d) Samsung 205BW monitor? 20" LCD widescreen 1680x1050 |
| 09:09.37 | rob_w | hrw, problems ? |
| 09:10.21 | hrw | rob_w: no, I can buy it new quite cheap |
| 09:10.52 | Psi | xkr47, i think that thing about telling them about prior opensource work, was to get on the list of ppl who got phones early, so they could write software |
| 09:11.04 | Tv | xkr47: start playing with openembedded.org and gpe |
| 09:11.08 | Tv | it shouldn't be hard to adjust for actual openmoko |
| 09:11.23 | rob_w | hrw, you probably need to hack your ext video out to support wide screens ,, i found recent drivers not necessarly supporting them |
| 09:12.00 | hrw | rob_w: I use linux |
| 09:12.37 | CM | hrw: I've read about that monitor on xbitlabs: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/20-21inch-3_5.html |
| 09:12.49 | CM | check the conclutions on page 17 too |
| 09:13.49 | rob_w | hrw, i know ;-) |
| 09:23.43 | *** part/#openmoko comicinke1 (n=simeon@R2a16.r.pppool.de) |
| 09:34.20 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 09:36.22 | koen | aaargh |
| 09:36.37 | koen | 56 mails containing basically "OMG!!!! w1f1!!!!!!" |
| 09:37.26 | hrw | ;D |
| 09:38.08 | koen | minus 10 insightfull ones from rwithby |
| 09:44.51 | greentux | morning guys :) |
| 09:46.24 | Psi | its 10:44pm here |
| 09:46.36 | hrw | ~ugt |
| 09:46.46 | apt | ugt is, like, Universial Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
| 09:47.11 | Psi | hehe |
| 09:47.40 | benJIman | pft clearly they should be using !bc |
| 09:51.01 | ciastek | hehe |
| 09:51.02 | ciastek | nice! |
| 09:58.01 | *** join/#openmoko rgl (n=Rui@84.90.10.107) |
| 10:10.24 | benJIman | 10:09:47 <SUSEhelp> benJIman probably got up 3 hours ago after 9 hours of sleep, making their body-clock time about 11:01. |
| 10:11.24 | *** join/#openmoko Iome (i=mika@sk1-8-2.tky.hut.fi) |
| 10:15.47 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-124-37-83.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 10:19.46 | *** join/#openmoko etf|work_away (n=etf|work@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 10:20.25 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n_ (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 10:20.51 | xkr47 | could the neo get any more bytes through USB 2.0 than USB 1.1 ? or is it already struggling with 1.1 ? |
| 10:21.26 | *** join/#openmoko ValiSystM (n=ValiSyst@81.56.207.165) |
| 10:22.42 | CM | 1.1 is slow, so I'm sure it would have been higher with 2.0 |
| 10:23.03 | hrw | neo has 1.1 host/slave |
| 10:23.16 | hrw | so it will not be faster when you connect it to usb 2.0 host |
| 10:23.42 | CM | No, surely not. But if the chipset on the phone supported 2.0 it would have. :) |
| 10:23.56 | hrw | CM: but iirc it does not support 2.0 |
| 10:23.57 | CM | Can't see any need for that now anyway. |
| 10:24.20 | hrw | CM: think - external 750GB hdd... |
| 10:24.20 | CM | 1.1 is fine when the memory card is so small anyway |
| 10:24.30 | CM | Hehe |
| 10:24.53 | hrw | yes.. yesterday I looked at microsd card. drop one to floor and you will never find it |
| 10:25.40 | sannes | hrw : unless you have a big magnet to sweep the floor with .... :P |
| 10:25.55 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@dns.kernelconcepts.de) |
| 10:26.29 | florian | good morning |
| 10:26.44 | CM | morning |
| 10:46.00 | *** join/#openmoko ValiSystM (n=ValiSyst@lns-bzn-50f-81-56-207-165.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 10:47.18 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-124-206-219.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 11:11.00 | *** join/#openmoko Sencer (i=Sencer@gateway/tor/x-aa13d18ba7de9154) |
| 11:11.09 | thedaniel | the email to the list from sencer at about 10 GMT is a beautiful piece of flame-retardant pwnage |
| 11:11.31 | thedaniel | the first sentence alone worth the price of admission |
| 11:11.42 | thedaniel | " |
| 11:11.42 | thedaniel | Then for everbody's sake use the 350$ to buy two simple WiFi |
| 11:11.42 | thedaniel | VOIP-phones, one for home, one for work and stop whining. " |
| 11:13.31 | Sencer | thedaniel: it felt good letting it all out^^ |
| 11:13.55 | thedaniel | Sencer: ah ha! i didn't see you in my tab-completion list |
| 11:14.12 | thedaniel | anyway, i thought that was a heck of a great email |
| 11:17.05 | Sencer | thedaniel: I am expecting a lengthy rebuttal, I am not sure if beneath the flames the point got through ^^ |
| 11:17.52 | Paladine | Sencer, I take it your email was addressing all the people who keep whining about the lack of wifi? |
| 11:17.59 | Paladine | (I am not on the mailing lists yet) |
| 11:18.44 | Sencer | Paladine: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001425.html |
| 11:19.17 | Sencer | Paladine: yes |
| 11:19.44 | sannes | nice one :) |
| 11:20.14 | danilos | Sencer: so, there is no WiFi? |
| 11:21.21 | koen | see topic |
| 11:21.45 | thedaniel | Paladine: there was a specific guy |
| 11:21.49 | Sencer | *G* |
| 11:22.18 | thedaniel | his angle was 'the phone is useless to me without wifi. let me flame for 20 emails and tell you why you are not innovating if you don't release the phone with wifi. a phone with voip will cure cancer." |
| 11:22.34 | thedaniel | being a dick. |
| 11:23.10 | *** join/#openmoko unique (n=unique@ip43071.stuwe.fh-schmalkalden.de) |
| 11:23.27 | thedaniel | Paladine: http://pastie.caboo.se/33969 <-- mail in question |
| 11:26.04 | Paladine | yeah I just read Sencer's post |
| 11:26.40 | Paladine | I find it somewhat amusing that wifi is proving such a big issue for a (what is primarily a) phone |
| 11:26.41 | koen | thedaniel: I heard phones cause cancer |
| 11:26.42 | thedaniel | ah, ha i didn't notice that he'd linked to the archive |
| 11:27.10 | thedaniel | koen: i heard that spending money on phones limits the money you have left over to spend on food and shelter |
| 11:27.25 | thedaniel | so with those two factors combined, the neo is clearly Not Worth It |
| 11:27.33 | koen | that's why I don't buy phones :) |
| 11:28.17 | sannes | will windows be available on the neo? :P |
| 11:28.34 | koen | sannes: yes |
| 11:28.41 | Paladine | hehehe |
| 11:28.47 | koen | well, windows CE |
| 11:28.58 | sannes | what a waste .. :P |
| 11:29.01 | Psi | i thought it was windows mobile? |
| 11:29.13 | thedaniel | windows mobile is such a piece of shit |
| 11:29.35 | thedaniel | even with the neo imminent, i jus bought an unlocked gsm phone because I can stand to use my HTC NO LONGER |
| 11:29.39 | sannes | Hopefully not preinstalled? |
| 11:30.15 | sannes | I was hoping neo1973 would be the first gear I would buy with Linux preinstalled :) |
| 11:30.36 | Psi | im pretty sure the windows version is specific |
| 11:31.19 | Psi | ie, you order one or the other |
| 11:31.26 | Paladine | a friend of mine asked an interesting question earlier when I was talking to him about this. Has the openmoko been submitted to the FCC yet for certification? |
| 11:31.40 | Psi | pretty sure i read that it had |
| 11:32.30 | sannes | the distro or the phone ? |
| 11:32.32 | thedaniel | please stop calling the device openmoko |
| 11:32.34 | Paladine | the phone |
| 11:32.43 | Paladine | distro's don't need fcc approval as far as I know ;) |
| 11:32.52 | sannes | thedaniel: you just saved me a question.. hehe |
| 11:33.01 | thedaniel | phone = neo1973 |
| 11:33.06 | thedaniel | first of many, hopefully |
| 11:33.08 | Paladine | yes ok, my apologies :p |
| 11:33.30 | thedaniel | and i'd love to see openmoko run on lots of non-FIC hardware as well |
| 11:33.37 | Psi | neo for short :P |
| 11:33.48 | sannes | also, the gsm chip has been approved before? (Think I read that before?) |
| 11:33.49 | thedaniel | to support this mostly i'll be crossing my fingers and baking hardware nerds cookies |
| 11:34.20 | thedaniel | bc i think getting openmoko running on an htc phone is beyond my reach |
| 11:34.36 | koen | sannes: it's a certified TI module |
| 11:35.03 | sannes | koen: so it should be all good :) |
| 11:35.56 | Paladine | TI as in Texas Instruments I presume? |
| 11:36.56 | koen | yes |
| 11:37.21 | Paladine | does this renaissanceman dude have some sort of commission contract with truphone or something? |
| 11:39.53 | koen | http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/17/samsung-sch-w559-touts-vibrating-vibetonz-touchscreen/ |
| 11:39.54 | sannes | Paladine: that was my toughts exactly aswell, but I came to the conclusion that he probably just has issues (and want wifi really bad).. :P |
| 11:43.29 | CM | http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/01/18/lg_shows_iphone-like_prada_phone/ |
| 11:44.10 | *** join/#openmoko basti (n=chatzill@p57A0A847.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:44.10 | Paladine | CM, I just read that earlier |
| 11:44.23 | Paladine | wonder if we are going to see a legal battle between apple and LG |
| 11:44.29 | Paladine | they do both look incredibly similar |
| 11:44.35 | CM | For sure |
| 11:45.11 | Paladine | anyone know what name it would have been submitted to the fcc with? |
| 11:45.20 | Paladine | I can't find anything for neo1973 on fcc's site |
| 11:46.51 | CM | I'm hoping for a big update on openmoko.com tomorrow.. The page needs it |
| 11:46.53 | so_solid_moo | it's using an existing radio that's already certified |
| 11:47.25 | Paladine | so_solid_moo, apparantly it would still need to be re-approved though |
| 11:47.39 | so_solid_moo | Paladine: who says? |
| 11:47.40 | Paladine | although I am not saying that as a fact |
| 11:47.44 | Paladine | just going on what I have been told |
| 11:48.13 | so_solid_moo | I don't see why the fcc would want to reapprove something that's already approved |
| 11:48.26 | so_solid_moo | maybe they do, but it sounds unlikely to me. |
| 11:48.42 | sannes | think I read somewhere that altough it needs to be reapproved it often goes quicker? |
| 11:48.51 | Paladine | yeah like I said, I don't know for a fact, just going on "heresay" |
| 11:49.12 | sannes | maybe they have to check out antenna + chip or something.. heh |
| 11:49.14 | koen | so_solid_moo: I suspect the FCC approves 'devices' instead of modules |
| 11:49.38 | so_solid_moo | possibly |
| 11:50.04 | CM | Yes, I think it's the radiaton things they check |
| 11:50.09 | Paladine | yeah I think itis the combination of technologies that would need approving, as opposed to the individual components |
| 11:50.38 | CM | Have a friend who designs antennas and board layout for Nokia |
| 11:50.56 | Paladine | saying that though, I honestly can't see a serious manufacturer neglecting to get the approval they need from the relevant authorities |
| 11:51.09 | Paladine | one would assume they have had to deal with people like the FCC many times in the past |
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| 12:15.23 | buz | as long as it doesnt get seized by customs i couldnt care les if the thing is allowed or not |
| 12:21.21 | buz | i wonder what the winmob version in china will cost |
| 12:21.26 | buz | chances are it will actually be cheaper? |
| 12:21.57 | Psi | windows isn't free |
| 12:22.02 | buz | yes |
| 12:22.07 | buz | but overhead in china is much lower |
| 12:22.13 | buz | and the volume much higher |
| 12:22.15 | Iome | mm.,ÿjåiåååååååååååååååååååååååååååååååååååååååååijiåoooooooooooj+x+ynoýod+h0jujb5tiuyttttäol5nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.5ååååååååååyuå7uuuuuuu7iu7c |
| 12:22.30 | Psi | actually, maybe windows is free in china :P |
| 12:22.54 | buz | if you're good at negotiating windows is always free |
| 12:25.35 | koen | hmmmm |
| 12:25.48 | *** join/#openmoko meyerm (n=meyerm@p549875CA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:26.44 | buz | agreed |
| 12:26.55 | buz | but then again, the renassiance guy is just trolling |
| 12:27.20 | koen | maybe I'm getting too old |
| 12:27.32 | koen | or maybe I'm not OMG 1337 enough |
| 12:30.02 | *** join/#openmoko ciastek|kolosy (n=ciastek@procent.miedzylesie.waw.pl) |
| 12:34.56 | xkr47 | koen, I guess one can't enforce that |
| 12:35.16 | koen | xkr47: sure, unsubscribe anyone without a real name :) |
| 12:35.47 | xkr47 | ah |
| 12:35.50 | xkr47 | :) |
| 12:36.05 | koen | I'd be more comfortable responding to "John Doe" than "OMG1337t0m4t0" |
| 12:36.12 | xkr47 | :)) |
| 12:45.36 | xkr47 | it's hard to shift people's opinion about them not being in the center of the world |
| 12:45.49 | xkr47 | sorry about them being... |
| 12:47.43 | Stephmw | ... but I *am* in the center of the world... Greenwich meridian? |
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| 12:50.58 | yacc | buz: the renaissance guy does not know what the benefits of VoIP are. |
| 12:51.26 | buz | i still trying to figure out how exactly you would do UMA without carriers help |
| 12:51.37 | yacc | UMA? |
| 12:51.49 | koen | unified mobile ass? |
| 12:52.12 | yacc | koen: What should this UMA do? |
| 12:52.31 | koen | no idea |
| 12:53.54 | xkr47 | maybe everybody should just wish renaissance boy a happy life with the splendid iphony |
| 12:54.18 | koen | the iphone is a neat device |
| 12:54.28 | koen | can't wait to install openmoko on it :) |
| 12:54.31 | xkr47 | well an unified mobile ass would be like when shit hits the fan |
| 12:56.41 | Stephmw | koen: naw, just referring to the deeply ingrained belief that the UK is the centre of the world... geographically |
| 12:57.09 | koen | geographically the world is a sphere :) |
| 12:57.48 | Stephmw | honestly, you had to go kill a perfectly good joke ;) |
| 12:57.48 | xkr47 | well at least earth, wouldn't world actually encompass the whole universe ?-) |
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| 13:25.40 | buz | http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/weblogsinc/engadgetmobile/~3/77238550/ prada???? |
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| 13:45.45 | xkr47 | buz, lol @ "first completely touch screen mobile phone" ... it has three visible buttons in the pic :) |
| 13:45.49 | xkr47 | (at least :) |
| 13:55.50 | koen | heh |
| 13:55.51 | koen | http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/01/17/HNciscoiphonegpl_1.html |
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| 14:02.07 | xkr47 | that sounds even better when people forget to mention it's cisco's iphone ;) |
| 14:02.16 | CM | Didn't know that Cisco owned Linksys though |
| 14:04.47 | xkr47 | sad thing that they don't mention in the article they have enforced ALL 100 violations |
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| 14:05.13 | xkr47 | and I guess the number is rising all the time |
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| 14:17.03 | LaF0rge | xkr: I'm not even counting at the moment. no time for that ;) |
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| 14:22.32 | xkr47 | LaF0rge, :) |
| 14:22.43 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 14:22.55 | xkr47 | LaF0rge, getting any sleep ?-P |
| 14:24.58 | alphaone | LaF0rge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep :-) |
| 14:26.13 | CM | alphaone: Hehe... "Aka Da Vinci sleep or Überman sleep" |
| 14:27.05 | Stephmw | ... and another blackout |
| 14:27.08 | Stephmw | ... makes flashing phones interesting... will it flash? will it brick? |
| 14:27.43 | CM | Stephmw: Time to get an UPS? |
| 14:28.08 | CM | I've had one 15-minute blackout in 2.5 years in my apartment |
| 14:28.25 | Stephmw | CM: this is at work... 1700 peopls would need to be powered |
| 14:28.55 | CM | Ah, ouch.. |
| 14:29.37 | Stephmw | that's a lot of infrastructure ;) |
| 14:30.48 | xkr47 | you need a power plant ;) |
| 14:31.26 | Stephmw | yeah, that V12 would come in handy |
| 14:32.09 | aloril | quite busy mailing list ;-) |
| 14:32.24 | koen | 'busy' |
| 14:32.47 | koen | 90% of the traffic can be avoid by introducing the poster to that thing called 'google' |
| 14:34.02 | Sencer | my guess is it will split at some point in the future between "talk" and "dev" |
| 14:34.17 | koen | dev and n00bs |
| 14:34.22 | koen | pardon my leetspeak |
| 14:34.31 | XorA | :-D |
| 14:34.42 | XorA | 1337sp43k surely |
| 14:34.48 | koen | eeks! |
| 14:34.53 | koen | scottish people here |
| 14:35.30 | XorA | we is in dah haus |
| 14:39.19 | *** join/#openmoko leventhal (i=todd@azure.ath.cx) |
| 14:40.51 | aloril | http://www.slashgear.com/?p=3496&akst_action=share-this |
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| 14:46.23 | aloril | looks a bit different than press release photos |
| 14:46.44 | seaLne | so its not a hole at the bottom then, just recessed? |
| 14:50.26 | buz | woah that black neo is neat |
| 14:50.36 | buz | is that for real? |
| 14:51.13 | Stephmw | it's probably a soft-tooled proto |
| 14:51.23 | Stephmw | colours aren't finalised for those, typically |
| 14:51.25 | buz | i want THAT |
| 14:51.46 | buz | the anti iphone |
| 14:52.47 | koen | http://www.flickr.com/photos/palmsolo/351009934/in/photostream/ |
| 14:53.03 | koen | I still don't know if I'd like the TS recessed or not |
| 14:53.55 | Stephmw | I dislike recessed TS, I hated it on the P910 |
| 14:53.58 | koen | btw, mediaplayer screenshot: http://www.flickr.com/photos/palmsolo/350825877/ |
| 14:54.30 | koen | Stephmw: yeah, recessed ts makes it hard to get your finger on the edges of the screen |
| 14:54.58 | Stephmw | it also makes it real easy for dust to go inside |
| 14:55.02 | aloril | http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=12732 "Despite not having a working demo device on hand..." |
| 14:55.18 | aloril | --> I read it this way: software is not yet enough ready to be demoed |
| 14:55.35 | *** join/#openmoko Voting (n=EricL@ool-45754623.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 14:56.40 | aloril | hmm.. it says 3 months too... I wonder if February if open, but recommended only for developers and 1 month after that recommended for everybody? |
| 14:56.58 | aloril | well... just a day and we will get answers ;-) |
| 14:58.21 | xkr47 | :) |
| 15:01.15 | xkr47 | koen, mediaplayer screenshot at the right ? |
| 15:03.59 | koen | xkr47: I think so |
| 15:04.33 | xkr47 | here's the full size image: http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=350825877&size=o |
| 15:04.40 | CM | Hope I can get a black one.. |
| 15:04.54 | xkr47 | "me hopes you get both covers in the package :) |
| 15:05.16 | xkr47 | koen, looks like we can confirm your guess |
| 15:05.18 | meyerm_ | BTW: Does anbody know where the 1973 comes from? ;-) |
| 15:05.30 | seaLne | meyerm_: first mobile phone call |
| 15:05.32 | koen | pretty decent pictures from a camera phone as well |
| 15:05.37 | Stephmw | CM: some sandpaper will do :) |
| 15:05.45 | meyerm_ | seaLne: Ah, cool :D |
| 15:05.52 | leventhal | My first guess was Keanu Reeves' birthyear |
| 15:05.59 | xkr47 | :D |
| 15:05.59 | seaLne | :) |
| 15:06.20 | xkr47 | I'll put the white rabbit as screensaver pic :D |
| 15:06.25 | meyerm_ | *g* |
| 15:06.42 | xkr47 | wonder what media player sw they have |
| 15:06.43 | koen | hmmm |
| 15:06.49 | koen | 2 brownouts in last 15 minutes |
| 15:07.56 | Stephmw | koen: your turn? |
| 15:08.02 | CM | Maybe the "official" launch will be April 3:rd, since it was that day 1973 that the first call was made |
| 15:08.09 | *** part/#openmoko Voting (n=EricL@ool-45754623.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 15:08.10 | xkr47 | koen, btw if you compare the same 350825877 pic with the press release, you'll see that the top bar now has lots of icons |
| 15:08.34 | meyerm_ | Hopefully there won't be too much ;) |
| 15:08.34 | koen | yes, noticed that |
| 15:08.48 | koen | although I still think those are mockups |
| 15:08.53 | nh_work | anyone ever figure out what the hole in the bottom of the device is for? :) |
| 15:09.01 | koen | if not, I how they ship a loupe alongside the phone |
| 15:09.04 | xkr47 | yeah, the time is the same in all shots ;) |
| 15:09.19 | xkr47 | koen, loupe ? |
| 15:09.29 | koen | magnifying glass |
| 15:09.50 | xkr47 | hmm |
| 15:09.59 | leventhal | nh_work: I'm adding a chain and keeping it in my front pocket. People will think I'm classy until I make a call. |
| 15:10.15 | nh_work | leventhal: I was thinking maybe it's for an oversized keychain. ;) |
| 15:10.28 | leventhal | That would be cool too |
| 15:10.37 | xkr47 | .. it also has a "NEO1973" sticker or whatever |
| 15:10.56 | leventhal | Or attach one of those retractable cord beltclips |
| 15:11.05 | leventhal | And a very good screen protector.. |
| 15:11.23 | xkr47 | you could have the moko as an earring ;--) |
| 15:11.32 | leventhal | .. oh.. I know why. It's for all of those call-activated light up decorations. |
| 15:11.35 | nh_work | oh well. I'll probably have to get in on the second gen devices, I bought an E2 a couple of months ago. |
| 15:11.50 | xkr47 | : |
| 15:11.51 | xkr47 | :P |
| 15:11.55 | koen | nh_work: run openmoko on the e2 :) |
| 15:12.05 | nh_work | koen: that's kind of what I'm thinking. :) |
| 15:12.09 | koen | :D |
| 15:13.08 | nh_work | koen: We'll have to see how it works out with the smaller res screen and keypad. |
| 15:13.48 | koen | I think the keypad save you from a a lot of buttons on screen :) |
| 15:14.19 | nh_work | koen: yeah, that could be very nice. |
| 15:14.33 | nh_work | koen: only if it supports it well though. |
| 15:15.04 | koen | it's not hard to do better as motorola firmware |
| 15:16.23 | nh_work | koen: I'm curious what we could do with evas. |
| 15:17.08 | *** join/#openmoko [g2] (n=g2@nslu2-linux/g2) |
| 15:17.25 | nh_work | the e2 has that nice up/down button on the side that could be used for scrolling |
| 15:18.16 | aloril | about software in neo: I prefer to get it now with basic software than to get later with more: I can always update it myself ;-) |
| 15:18.41 | nh_work | aloril: true enough. I'm fine with just generally working phone software. The other stuff we can add. |
| 15:18.57 | nh_work | the underlying stuff is more important. |
| 15:20.19 | aloril | lots of talk about wifi, I think there might be nice marked for wifi sleeve (battery + wifi usb stick) |
| 15:21.08 | koen | bleh, can't spell today |
| 15:21.10 | stefan_schmidt | koen: put in in the whole. :) |
| 15:21.30 | aloril | where is USB port in Neo1973? |
| 15:21.37 | stefan_schmidt | heh, hole even |
| 15:25.32 | koen | another batch of brownouts... |
| 15:25.32 | koen | ~hail laptops |
| 15:25.34 | apt | ACTION bows down to laptops and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" |
| 15:25.46 | noidd | funny you should sayu that |
| 15:26.00 | noidd | I wondered if evas would ever get off the ground with its widget system |
| 15:28.29 | koen | etk is coming along nicely |
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| 15:43.31 | noidd | etk? |
| 15:43.40 | noidd | does that actually exist or are you parodying me? ;-) |
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| 15:48.09 | koen | that's the preferred widget kit for evas/efl these days |
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| 15:51.49 | koen | noidd: http://code.google.com/p/etoolkit/ |
| 15:52.31 | koen | and of course http://projects.linuxtogo.org/projects/eflpp/ |
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| 15:57.23 | PirateHead | Boy, am I behind the times. I've never heard of any of those. |
| 15:57.53 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 15:58.08 | koen | and even better, the language binding use a nice namespace |
| 15:58.31 | koen | in c# you can just replace the the gtk dll with the etk dll and it just works(tm) |
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| 16:09.32 | noidd | sweet! thanks |
| 16:09.33 | noidd | looking |
| 16:11.07 | noidd | they use the same methods and args as gtk? |
| 16:11.07 | noidd | or am I misunderstanding what you're saying |
| 16:11.08 | koen | I guess so |
| 16:11.24 | noidd | ie - header files are identical |
| 16:11.53 | noidd | or at least provides gtklike stubs that translate to etk |
| 16:11.56 | noidd | man - that's shiny |
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| 16:12.27 | noidd | that might actually explain how the UI mockups on the openmoko website actually look perty as opposed to gtk |
| 16:12.55 | noidd | mickeyl is a dev on that project too. So, I have a 2 and a 2. If I add them, do I get 4? :-) |
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| 16:18.58 | hrw | heh.. openmoko ML is .... no comments |
| 16:19.16 | hrw | fetch, mark as read |
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| 16:30.52 | koen | noidd: eflpp predates openmoko |
| 16:31.24 | noidd | Going to download and take a look |
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| 16:39.46 | aloril | this article mentions CES and February (in contrast to the Register article that mentions CES and March): http://blogs.pcworld.com/digitalworld/archives/2007/01/open_source_at.html |
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| 16:43.27 | aloril | screenshot of onscreen keyboard: http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/11589 |
| 16:44.28 | aloril | and comment about v2: "Additional features, such as 3G support and a sliding keyboard, are also in the works." |
| 16:52.46 | koen | heh |
| 16:53.05 | koen | a loupe and some nanostyli |
| 16:53.39 | koen | that keyboard would be 2cm wide on the real screen |
| 16:54.30 | aloril | hehe, so its just mockup .. |
| 16:54.55 | aloril | anyway, its missing alt and ctrl and ... well there are better options anyway ;-) |
| 16:55.24 | koen | but it does have an "Opion" button |
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| 16:56.49 | XorA | keyboards are for wimps |
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| 17:46.32 | rox | is anybody already working on black/white listing? |
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| 18:07.43 | xkr47 | aloril, nice |
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| 18:15.32 | xkr47 | koen, well.. the screenshot is downscaled from the real resolution.. |
| 18:16.03 | Genesis | yo |
| 18:16.05 | Genesis | i've a silly question , is there some place to add a crosspad+button on the side of the neo ? |
| 18:16.35 | xkr47 | what's a crosspad ?-) |
| 18:16.36 | Genesis | like gameboy |
| 18:16.50 | xkr47 | you mean the bluetooth one that was pasted earlier ? |
| 18:16.52 | Zer0Her0_ | d-pas |
| 18:16.58 | Zer0Her0_ | er d-pad |
| 18:16.59 | xkr47 | or well you weren't here |
| 18:17.01 | Elephantman | bye :) |
| 18:17.22 | Genesis | xkr47 : i just come , if you can remember url plz |
| 18:17.36 | xkr47 | let's see |
| 18:19.44 | xkr47 | http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/bt-gamepad-en.shtml |
| 18:20.20 | *** join/#openmoko zqx3 (n=bill@c-67-190-144-184.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 18:20.21 | xkr47 | but I don't know if it's supported.. |
| 18:20.44 | xkr47 | .. yet ;) |
| 18:20.44 | Genesis | it's big |
| 18:20.58 | Genesis | not sure that 'ill very useful with the neo |
| 18:22.14 | *** join/#openmoko lightyear (n=lightyea@p548771AE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:22.30 | xkr47 | :) |
| 18:22.49 | xkr47 | what do the wii remotes use ;) |
| 18:22.56 | xkr47 | are the bluetooth ?-) |
| 18:23.26 | *** join/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R2a16.r.pppool.de) |
| 18:23.59 | Genesis | hehe i think yes |
| 18:24.14 | Genesis | i saw a support for linux |
| 18:24.20 | xkr47 | lol |
| 18:24.48 | Genesis | it's supported on the openwrt |
| 18:24.50 | *** join/#openmoko incinerator (n=sabine@82-41-24-164.cable.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:24.50 | Genesis | so ;) |
| 18:24.59 | xkr47 | if you'd glue a pen to the wii remote, you could paint stuff and the moko could draw a picture and send it to others |
| 18:25.02 | xkr47 | :) |
| 18:25.06 | xkr47 | like when in a conference call |
| 18:25.27 | xkr47 | a picture -> the same picture |
| 18:25.52 | Genesis | http://pigeond.net/?cat=flightgear&comments=fg-wiimote |
| 18:28.36 | cbpage | heh |
| 18:28.44 | cbpage | i could see gluing ir transmitters to the neo now |
| 18:29.23 | *** join/#openmoko lonnb (n=lonnb@i-83-67-202-74.freedom2surf.net) |
| 18:31.22 | ciastek | oh my, iphone, lg prada, google phone.. whos next? |
| 18:37.22 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 18:37.37 | nonick01 | maybe microsoft joins :) |
| 18:37.48 | nonick01 | no for the sake of god! |
| 18:38.23 | *** join/#openmoko MiniMoose (i=dave@c-24-16-216-41.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 18:38.38 | nonick01 | is possible that microsoft replies to apple's iphone |
| 18:38.43 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 18:38.50 | lightyear | they have to nonick01 |
| 18:39.06 | lightyear | but the reply wouldn't be more than a quiet quieek |
| 18:39.09 | nonick01 | they replied to the iPod with the zune so what is holding them? |
| 18:39.32 | nonick01 | I imagine it only with an BSOD |
| 18:44.46 | *** part/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R2a16.r.pppool.de) |
| 18:46.06 | *** join/#openmoko thedaniel (n=daniel@38.98.1.19) |
| 18:46.14 | rwhitby | So, it's Friday in my timezone ... ;-) |
| 18:47.26 | koen | rwhitby: and your tz is close to sean's :) |
| 18:48.25 | rwhitby | indeed :-) |
| 18:48.44 | rwhitby | but he's usually somewhere else in the world, probably. |
| 18:49.43 | xkr47 | (regarding announcement :) |
| 18:49.49 | *** join/#openmoko vargr (n=vargr@ool-45786df5.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 18:50.26 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@unaffiliated/ninher) |
| 18:51.04 | koen | rwhitby: I suspect he's in taipei this week |
| 18:51.12 | koen | recovering from a serious jetlag |
| 18:54.43 | greentux | koen, what do you think? what they mean with "friday" :) ? |
| 18:54.59 | hrw | greentux: announcement |
| 18:55.02 | greentux | greentux: friday in europe, friday in taiwan? |
| 18:55.18 | koen | greentux: saterday morning :) |
| 18:55.21 | greentux | its a long friday, taiwan has friday now I assume |
| 18:55.27 | hrw | "sorry guys, we shutdown the project.\n\n\n\nI was joking." |
| 18:55.34 | koen | (judging from how crappy the mail servers are over here) |
| 18:56.09 | greentux | koen: do you also have "nice" weather, that hrw will get, after we have enough in dresden ... hoho |
| 18:56.30 | hrw | greentux: 100-150 km/h wind + rain? |
| 18:56.47 | koen | greentux: yep, 'storm' |
| 18:56.52 | Psi | its been friday for 7h58m in my tz |
| 18:57.42 | greentux | 38kt up to 58kt! |
| 18:57.59 | greentux | 1kt = 1.852km/h |
| 18:58.05 | greentux | rainy, thunder, storm |
| 18:58.08 | koen | 1 mile / hour |
| 18:58.15 | *** join/#openmoko srikantux (n=sri@59.92.138.192) |
| 18:58.22 | greentux | nautical mile... :) not land mile |
| 18:58.36 | koen | greentux: the navy had an enlistment commercial where one 'captain' said "20 knots per hour" |
| 18:59.05 | greentux | koen: perhaps doing knots on a robe |
| 19:00.04 | koen | I couldn't stop laughing |
| 19:00.04 | koen | since it was all about getting educated in the navy |
| 19:00.51 | hrw | openmoko-spam ML is funny |
| 19:00.52 | rwhitby | "Friday" = 23:59, Hawaiian time. |
| 19:01.22 | greentux | :( |
| 19:01.36 | greentux | I think I will go out for 10 minutes to fly some meters... |
| 19:01.47 | *** join/#openmoko _rob_ (n=rob@ACAD6377.ipt.aol.com) |
| 19:05.07 | *** part/#openmoko vargr (n=vargr@ool-45786df5.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 19:05.07 | *** join/#openmoko vargr (n=vargr@ool-45786df5.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 19:10.42 | Niacin | so what devices are currently supported under openmoko? |
| 19:10.54 | koen | none |
| 19:11.04 | Niacin | so its not at a usable stage? |
| 19:11.13 | koen | it is not released yet |
| 19:11.17 | xorAxAx | its not released yet |
| 19:11.22 | Niacin | arr |
| 19:11.24 | Psi | its not released yet |
| 19:11.25 | koen | so it's in no stage |
| 19:11.33 | Psi | it needed to be said again :P |
| 19:11.58 | xorAxAx | 20:11:13 < koen> it is not released yet |
| 19:11.58 | xorAxAx | 20:11:16 < xorAxAx> its not released yet |
| 19:12.06 | xorAxAx | you are 10 seconds too late, Psi |
| 19:12.14 | Psi | no. i saw them |
| 19:12.17 | Niacin | i'm working on getting goumicator working on my cell phone.. just checking if there is any other open source projects that i could try |
| 19:12.21 | Psi | but it needed to be said again |
| 19:14.26 | ciastek | but its not released yet |
| 19:15.47 | *** join/#openmoko stryderjzw (n=stryderj@128.189.254.35) |
| 19:16.55 | *** part/#openmoko Niacin (n=cwade@static-71-97-126-90.dllstx.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 19:25.39 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
| 19:28.50 | *** join/#openmoko thedaniel (n=daniel@38.98.1.19) |
| 19:30.34 | Sencer | 19:38 < nonick01> is possible that microsoft replies to apple's iphone |
| 19:30.44 | Sencer | nonick01: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo&eurl= |
| 19:31.20 | thedaniel | damn, 177 people |
| 19:31.24 | *** join/#openmoko pike_ (i=pike@server1.freeshells.ch) |
| 19:32.16 | Zer0Her0_ | 178 |
| 19:32.16 | Zer0Her0_ | ;) |
| 19:35.24 | nonick01 | will be there anothers phones designs for low/middle classes? |
| 19:36.40 | jthomas | nonick01, probably someday, but this first one is for those who wanna play and get a bit dirty, i believe. once the software is better fleshed out and more stable, it'll be portabgle to other phones. |
| 19:37.17 | nonick01 | ok, i'm satisfeed |
| 19:39.03 | jthomas | nonick01: i hope we all will be!! :) |
| 19:40.56 | nonick01 | because I have in my PC some crappy mockups of mobile phones that can be used in the future (I need to improve it) |
| 19:41.55 | *** join/#openmoko johnny67 (n=johnny67@nvg1-01.yvr.sxip.com) |
| 19:42.41 | *** part/#openmoko johnny67 (n=johnny67@nvg1-01.yvr.sxip.com) |
| 19:42.49 | *** join/#openmoko johnny67 (n=johnny67@nvg1-01.yvr.sxip.com) |
| 19:43.28 | *** join/#openmoko Miniux (n=chatzill@client-0-181.eh.reshall.wwu.edu) |
| 19:43.44 | benJIman | does it contain OHES NOES NO WIFI!!!? |
| 19:44.23 | Miniux | lol... the list is getting so flooded :-| |
| 19:44.29 | prpplague | benJIman: ?? |
| 19:45.06 | koen | prpplague: 70+ mails yesterday containing basically "OMG!!!! NO WIFI!!!!!" |
| 19:45.11 | Miniux | yeah |
| 19:45.19 | koen | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001491.html |
| 19:45.50 | Miniux | The real question is why you would need to call your parents from a wifi cafe in London... and not just do it when you go home to a computer... |
| 19:46.26 | benJIman | Miniux: well I don't even have a mobile never needed one |
| 19:46.43 | benJIman | why would you need something to call people when you can just go to an internet connection and use irc |
| 19:46.43 | Miniux | Neither do I, but I miss my T|T |
| 19:46.59 | koen | a mobile was a prereq of letting me come home after midnight when I was 16 |
| 19:47.34 | Miniux | yeah well I lived in a town with no roads out and the chances of me scoring a plane ticket were slim |
| 19:47.50 | benJIman | koen: I find a device known as a key more useful |
| 19:48.31 | koen | benJIman: that doesn't help against a screaming mother |
| 19:48.50 | benJIman | ^_^ |
| 19:49.17 | cbpage | heh |
| 19:49.23 | Miniux | koen: he didn't leave the house I guess? |
| 19:49.27 | cbpage | to me it's like "hey, there's bluetooth..." |
| 19:49.33 | *** join/#openmoko johnny68 (n=ivb@nvg1-01.yvr.sxip.com) |
| 19:49.46 | koen | http://www.qoheleth.uklinux.net/blog/?p=137 |
| 19:49.55 | benJIman | Personally I'd rather a phone with no buttons and no display if I were to have one |
| 19:50.03 | benJIman | Well, one button |
| 19:50.14 | cbpage | it'd have to dial 911, here ;) |
| 19:51.07 | Miniux | Would that one button dial your non existant personal secretary? |
| 19:51.20 | benJIman | It would be "call" or "answer" depending on context |
| 19:52.13 | benJIman | Could look something like http://imagehost.auctionwatch.com/preview/sw/switch357/FStng001.jpg |
| 19:52.30 | prpplague | koen: ahh |
| 19:56.38 | Genesis | hey koen prpplague :) |
| 19:57.25 | noidd | does anyone have a link to a full rez screenshot of openmoko (640x480) |
| 19:58.15 | Miniux | http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html |
| 19:58.53 | Genesis | i find there is a lack of pcb screenshot |
| 20:00.40 | noidd | now i'm embarrassed |
| 20:00.40 | noidd | thx |
| 20:04.27 | koen | noidd: 480x640 :) |
| 20:06.45 | *** join/#openmoko [wobble] (n=martin@213472.static-p6.dus.net) |
| 20:10.29 | pjz | man the list is noisy with a bunch of clueless people |
| 20:10.41 | koen | ya think? |
| 20:11.36 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p85.212.183.156.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 20:12.49 | Miniux | it was quite awesome last week. I hope it will clear out again |
| 20:21.35 | rwhitby | there will need to be a separate developer list. guaranteed. |
| 20:22.10 | koen | but it will be secret |
| 20:22.16 | koen | and require a secret handshake |
| 20:22.30 | koen | and answer 3 question you have to look up on the internet |
| 20:22.35 | cbpage | ;) |
| 20:22.38 | *** join/#openmoko mintee (n=mintee@72-165-177-90.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 20:22.47 | rwhitby | nah, just put the address in an svn repo - that will be a high enough barrier to entry. |
| 20:23.02 | leventhal | Hah.. that works :) |
| 20:23.28 | koen | especially seeing reply-to-list is already to much trouble for people |
| 20:23.34 | koen | "OMG!!! 3 actions in gmail" |
| 20:23.34 | Sencer | there is no need. having seperate talk and dev lists works for other projects as well. No need to hide them. |
| 20:23.53 | Sencer | I mean, no need to hide them. Seperating them is ok. |
| 20:35.46 | *** join/#openmoko stryderjzw (n=stryderj@128.189.254.35) |
| 20:44.18 | l4rs | hm... interesting parts of the "Re: Neither iPhone or OpenMoko are revolutionary" discussion were automatically moved to my spam folder... |
| 20:45.06 | mintee | anyone (providers) biting on the OpenMoko? |
| 20:45.17 | Stephmw | they're not intended to |
| 20:45.23 | Stephmw | not high enough volumes |
| 20:45.35 | Stephmw | (yet) |
| 20:46.38 | mintee | so who would be the carrier? |
| 20:46.38 | Stephmw | it's a GSM phone - any GSM operator will do |
| 20:46.38 | Stephmw | on or off contract |
| 20:47.04 | mintee | ah... i see |
| 20:47.34 | Stephmw | from the US? |
| 20:47.44 | mintee | yes, i am |
| 20:47.44 | Stephmw | just guessing from the questions :) |
| 20:47.52 | mintee | exactully ;) |
| 20:47.58 | mintee | wouldn't be so easy over here |
| 20:48.32 | mintee | http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_us.shtml |
| 20:49.10 | Stephmw | yeah, the US operators are so 1980s |
| 20:49.24 | Stephmw | lockin, walled garden, penalties, number portability... |
| 20:49.54 | mintee | *sigh |
| 20:50.37 | mintee | Verizon pwns me |
| 20:50.42 | CM | Hehe |
| 20:50.51 | Stephmw | mintee: you're Verizon's biatch |
| 20:50.55 | mintee | jya |
| 20:51.20 | mintee | been with them for 4 years now... and i'm stuck with a shiaty, xv6700... |
| 20:51.38 | mintee | ready for something different, preferably one that isn't running windows mobile 5.0 |
| 20:52.25 | noidd | I spoke to Cingular today to ask them about using my own non-cing phone |
| 20:52.38 | noidd | they basically said that phone would work out the box with just inserting the sim |
| 20:53.13 | noidd | but I would need to do some configuration / finger-poken-mitten-grabbin with configuration users/passwords to get internet working. |
| 20:53.27 | noidd | and that their tech support would walk me through it on the phone. |
| 20:53.40 | mintee | hahaha, yeah, good luck with tath |
| 20:53.43 | mintee | *that |
| 20:54.19 | *** join/#openmoko ozamosi (n=ozamosi@2001:16d8:ff61:1:217:f2ff:fe4d:305c) |
| 20:55.28 | noidd | Well, it has to be done right? |
| 20:55.38 | noidd | how else am I going to get data services on the neo |
| 20:56.03 | zqx3 | lazyweb |
| 20:57.02 | Stephmw | noidd: typically you can find such settings on the web |
| 20:57.04 | koen | noidd: over here I can send an sms to a special number and it will send back the setting and my phone will use those automagically |
| 20:57.13 | Stephmw | noidd: the passwords aren't user-specific |
| 20:57.25 | Stephmw | koen: same in the UK |
| 20:57.45 | koen | Stephmw: we're on the right side of the pond :) |
| 21:00.42 | mintee | what's the neo? |
| 21:01.06 | koen | mintee: first link in topic |
| 21:01.39 | mintee | first link in the topic is http://www.openmoko.com/ |
| 21:02.22 | pike_ | noidd: ask to speak with mike in 2nd tier. at least 2 mikes with tech support in every company i ever worked for ;) |
| 21:02.56 | stefan_schmidt | mintee: You've read this site? Neo1973 is the first phone with openmoko. |
| 21:03.09 | mintee | ah, sorry |
| 21:03.19 | greentux | mickeyl: evening.. its friday in taiwan... |
| 21:03.50 | Stephmw | greentux: you're keeping a close eye :) |
| 21:04.14 | greentux | Stephmw: I missed something? |
| 21:04.19 | stefan_schmidt | mintee: Some people, mine included, are a bit harsh atm. To many people flood irc an ml without reading stuff before asking. |
| 21:05.03 | mintee | of course, i completely understand... i'm not offended. My fault for being lazy |
| 21:05.03 | greentux | stefan_schmidt: you mean the OMG no WIFI ML? or the empty announce list? |
| 21:05.16 | Stephmw | greentux: no - just your comment :) You're keeping track of when FIX is likely to announce :) |
| 21:06.17 | stefan_schmidt | greentux: heh, stay calm. mickeyl told you friday of _which_ week? ;) |
| 21:06.34 | stefan_schmidt | just kidding |
| 21:07.00 | greentux | stefan_schmidt: see you @fosdem too? |
| 21:07.19 | stefan_schmidt | greentux: yes, just booked the hostel today. |
| 21:07.54 | greentux | fine. friday beer event |
| 21:08.07 | greentux | friday again, aaah mickeyl means THAT friday |
| 21:08.09 | stefan_schmidt | greentux: heh, I will be there. :) |
| 21:11.28 | stefan_schmidt | ah, wikipedia tells 4 and 8GB ar SDHC |
| 21:12.14 | mintee | is there a release price on the Neo? |
| 21:13.15 | stefan_schmidt | mintee: 350$ |
| 21:14.39 | noidd | nice |
| 21:14.52 | noidd | Koen: can you share the number to SMS if you get a chance? |
| 21:16.36 | mintee | awesome, thanks Stephmw |
| 21:16.41 | mintee | err |
| 21:25.56 | *** join/#openmoko ozamosi (n=ozamosi@fintroll.flukkost.nu) |
| 21:26.19 | leventhal | fintroll? like the finnish metal? |
| 21:26.36 | kaboofa | fintroll! |
| 21:26.56 | ozamosi | Yes. All my computers are named after finnish music groups |
| 21:27.00 | leventhal | wicked |
| 21:27.07 | ozamosi | I also have bomfunk, eläkeläiset and lordi |
| 21:28.04 | ozamosi | So, basicly, it's not exactly an honor to have given name to one of my computers :) |
| 21:28.17 | koen | noidd: it's carrier specific |
| 21:30.09 | noidd | ah, gotcha |
| 21:30.15 | noidd | Well, I'm with cingular |
| 21:32.46 | noidd | and have 5000 roll-over minutes |
| 21:33.02 | noidd | so i'm the perfect person to test ip over voice :-P |
| 21:36.33 | kaboofa | heh |
| 21:46.07 | spikebik1 | wow crazyness |
| 21:46.25 | leventhal | I used to use data over TDMA voice |
| 21:46.31 | leventhal | 800 bytes/second on a good day |
| 21:48.01 | kaboofa | D: |
| 21:48.07 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:48.18 | leventhal | But it was free! |
| 21:48.38 | xorAxAx | leventhal: which device modulated it? |
| 21:49.06 | leventhal | Nokia 3360 |
| 21:49.18 | xorAxAx | ozamosi: do you know Lapinlahden linnut? |
| 21:49.24 | xorAxAx | leventhal: it can do data over voice? |
| 21:49.34 | leventhal | Yeah.. it acted as an IRDA modem |
| 21:49.36 | ozamosi | xorAxAx: nope |
| 21:49.46 | leventhal | Synced at a max of 9600 |
| 21:49.50 | xorAxAx | ozamosi: try them :) |
| 21:50.07 | leventhal | Not bad for a free phone I got five years ago |
| 21:50.55 | xorAxAx | leventhal: on GSM, you have CSD |
| 21:51.02 | ozamosi | xorAxAx: they're not on last.fm :( |
| 21:51.06 | xorAxAx | thats guaranteed 9600 |
| 21:51.33 | leventhal | Ah.. so that's one way of me getting free IM |
| 21:51.33 | leventhal | Cool |
| 21:52.57 | spikebik1 | heh |
| 21:53.01 | spikebik1 | nslu2 |
| 21:53.22 | xorAxAx | but CSD is expensive usually |
| 21:53.23 | spikebik1 | some rotc dufus showed up outside my door with an assault rifle replica |
| 21:53.30 | kaboofa | :o |
| 21:53.40 | *** join/#openmoko triplea (n=triplea@xdsl-87-79-236-1.netcologne.de) |
| 21:54.16 | |Melkman| | xorAxAx: isn't it the same cost a voice ? ie per time unit |
| 21:54.36 | xorAxAx | |Melkman|: no, more expensive |
| 21:54.48 | xorAxAx | because CSD uses different infrastructure than normal voice calls |
| 21:54.59 | xorAxAx | CSD transfers the data digitally from the handset to the provider |
| 21:55.07 | xorAxAx | and the provider provides a simple modem |
| 21:55.27 | xorAxAx | in germany, its usually 29 ct./ min. |
| 21:55.39 | xorAxAx | except for special wap flatrates |
| 21:55.49 | *** join/#openmoko PirateHead (n=piratehe@AC940A58.ipt.aol.com) |
| 21:55.53 | PirateHead | Announcement tomorrow, wee. |
| 21:56.44 | xorAxAx | who says that? :) |
| 21:56.46 | xorAxAx | it says friday |
| 21:56.52 | spikebik1 | tomorrow what time? |
| 21:56.56 | xorAxAx | there will be numerous fridays in this year |
| 21:57.01 | thedaniel | it's 6am friday in taiwan |
| 21:57.08 | xorAxAx | it doesnt say "next friday" :) |
| 21:57.25 | thedaniel | I DEMAND ANNOUNCEMENT |
| 21:57.29 | thedaniel | ha |
| 21:57.31 | [g2] | lol |
| 22:02.04 | *** join/#openmoko bhima (n=gf2e@server1.mdsamerica.com) |
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| 22:56.28 | *** join/#openmoko dduardo (n=dduardo@74.92.203.97) |
| 23:00.29 | buz | mhh it is now friday according to GMT+1 ;) |
| 23:01.48 | xorAxAx | it has been friday for hours |
| 23:02.00 | xorAxAx | according to taiwanese time |
| 23:02.10 | dduardo | Can the Neo act as voice/fax modem? Or is this interface not exposed due to regulation? |
| 23:02.19 | xorAxAx | but there are more than 45 fridays left this year |
| 23:03.11 | ozamosi | I have an announcement to make, if that works for you. My announcement is this: the "real" announcement hasn't yet happened, but it probably will. |
| 23:03.37 | bhima | Are there any actual, significant regulations about which phone interfaces can be exposed? |
| 23:04.04 | rwhitby | xorAxAx: It's 9:30am Friday here - I've been doing Friday work for an hour. |
| 23:04.07 | whitedrought | um, in which country? they've all got different regulations |
| 23:04.16 | dduardo | i'm in the US |
| 23:04.29 | xorAxAx | rwhitby: right, so it has been friday for nearly 10 hours according to buz standards :) |
| 23:04.40 | bhima | whitedrought: I know, I know. I was figuring I'd ask the general quesiton and let anbody who knew anything say what they knew. |
| 23:04.57 | dduardo | Instead of speaking in to the mic, I can output the audio data from software? |
| 23:05.03 | buz | xorAxAx: actually, only about 5min |
| 23:05.12 | buz | its GMT+1, not +10 |
| 23:05.27 | xorAxAx | buz: i am talking about rwhitby and your definition of friday |
| 23:05.48 | buz | ah right, yes somewhere it's been friday for 11 hours |
| 23:06.45 | rwhitby | xorAxAx: it's been Friday for almost 13 hours in Chatham Island. |
| 23:06.48 | rwhitby | http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=63 |
| 23:06.55 | *** join/#openmoko apapia (n=apapia@imsip7.bu.edu) |
| 23:07.16 | dduardo | I guess no one knows? |
| 23:07.24 | apapia | what's the word? when can i get my hands on an openmoko phone? |
| 23:07.44 | rwhitby | (their GMT+13:45 timezone is even weirder than my GMT+10:30 |
| 23:08.00 | ozamosi | You guys don't know anything. I'm t GMT+1, and it's not friday for another 6 hours... Don't you ever read TV charts (or whatever it's called)? They don't change day untill 06:00 |
| 23:08.09 | ozamosi | s/t/at/ |
| 23:08.37 | ozamosi | No, apt, you're wrong... Wrong t :) |
| 23:09.04 | benJIman | Friday in GMT in 50mins |
| 23:09.17 | benJIman | and London is the centre of the world. |
| 23:10.21 | buz | unmaking the iphone http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2415 |
| 23:10.55 | dduardo | I wonder how long it will take the Neo to compile gentoo from stage 1? |
| 23:11.42 | dduardo | a week perhap, maybe more |
| 23:11.50 | bhima | dduardo: depends on whether you immerse it in liquid helium and overclock it. |
| 23:15.18 | Psi | hehe |
| 23:19.51 | dduardo | Google Phone: http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/18/the-google-switch-an-iphone-killer/ |
| 23:20.17 | thedaniel | speaking of the phone, my friend micki: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/announcements/boring-but-important-stuff-229752.php |
| 23:21.10 | Psi | lol |
| 23:21.56 | bhima | I doubt that Google is doing this. |
| 23:22.19 | Psi | that google phone looks abit too thin to be real |
| 23:22.33 | Psi | maybe its a prototype of something that might make in the future |
| 23:22.37 | thedaniel | do not underestimate the might and power of samsung ;) |
| 23:22.39 | Psi | *they |
| 23:22.52 | bhima | I've never seen a device with such a thin border. |
| 23:22.54 | ozamosi | bhima: I doubt that Google is doing 99% of what the rumors say they do |
| 23:23.07 | bhima | I'd like to. :) |
| 23:23.16 | dduardo | Is that like the iPhone Pecano? |
| 23:23.25 | dduardo | ~ over the n of course |
| 23:23.51 | dduardo | I'm waiting for apple to come out with the iPhone Invisa |
| 23:24.01 | dduardo | That would be the ultimate phone |
| 23:24.06 | thedaniel | one. billion. songs. |
| 23:24.20 | bhima | There aren't 1 billion good songs. |
| 23:24.40 | dduardo | and don't forget 1 frajillion contacts |
| 23:25.09 | apapia | i'm pretty sure there are only 6 billion possible contacts |
| 23:25.09 | bhima | It only needs storage for 10b contacts. |
| 23:25.16 | apapia | unless SETI hits it big |
| 23:25.31 | bhima | Is it pre-loaded? |
| 23:25.35 | *** part/#openmoko markit (n=konversa@host119-245-static.72-81-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 23:25.38 | Psi | wonder how long it will take before someone creates a album flipthrough app for the neo, (like the iphone thing) |
| 23:25.41 | bhima | I hope they have some good scrolling stuff. |
| 23:25.56 | apapia | pre-loaded with the contact information of the entire human race |
| 23:25.59 | apapia | i like that idea |
| 23:26.10 | cbpage | the display also looks very ungoogle |
| 23:26.12 | apapia | that sounds like a Google phone to me |
| 23:26.26 | bhima | "It's been nearly ready for two years, we just needed to figure out how you can scroll through all of the 6 billion pre-loaded contacts..." |
| 23:26.40 | apapia | Google it |
| 23:28.00 | bhima | Oooh. They have a quantum-computing device, with quantum storage. "Google, in your hand" |
| 23:28.01 | dduardo | Bluetooth Brainwave cap? |
| 23:28.08 | bhima | literally, _all_ of google in your hand. |
| 23:28.22 | bhima | It doesn't have network capability. |
| 23:28.26 | dduardo | LIke this: http://www.swissinfo.org/xobix_media/images/sri/2003/sriimg20030121_1579943_0.jpg |
| 23:28.31 | dduardo | But with bluetooth |
| 23:28.53 | dduardo | You don't even need to punch in numbers. Just think about who you want to call |
| 23:29.12 | bhima | bah. lame. it's google. |
| 23:29.17 | bhima | just think about what you want done. |
| 23:30.00 | apapia | yeah, that way everyone in the google-verse can search my thoughts instantly, 24/7 |
| 23:30.18 | bhima | No, it doesn't have network storage. |
| 23:30.22 | bhima | It's entirely local. |
| 23:30.34 | bhima | It has all of google built-in. |
| 23:30.44 | dduardo | Halographic Memory |
| 23:30.50 | apapia | everything local, except for the government back door |
| 23:31.48 | dduardo | What I really want on the Neo is a software voice modulator |
| 23:32.42 | apapia | ohh that'd be cool |
| 23:32.50 | apapia | should be fairly easy |
| 23:32.56 | bhima | voice modulator? |
| 23:33.05 | bhima | You mean something to disguise voice? or synthesize? or...? |
| 23:33.11 | apapia | could have different voices you could choose from |
| 23:33.37 | dduardo | Depending on your mood you could take different personas |
| 23:33.38 | apapia | like Arnold Scharwzenager |
| 23:33.50 | dduardo | Ah, a soundboard |
| 23:33.54 | bhima | Can it break your grammar too? |
| 23:33.58 | apapia | haha |
| 23:34.08 | dduardo | Built in Stewie Griffin soundboard |
| 23:34.15 | bhima | Maybe figure out word segmentation, and rearrange words. |
| 23:34.25 | apapia | randomly? |
| 23:34.29 | apapia | it could be done |
| 23:34.44 | bhima | This is why I want an open source phone. |
| 23:34.51 | bhima | Because nobody in their right midn would build the phone I want. |
| 23:34.51 | apapia | clearly |
| 23:35.20 | dduardo | This gets back to my orignal question: Is this type of inteface exposed in the GSM module? |
| 23:35.25 | bhima | I only jsut bought an E70, though, and I need to get an iPhone. hrm. |
| 23:35.48 | dduardo | You would need write access to the audio data stream |
| 23:36.04 | dduardo | I don't know if it is legally allowed |
| 23:36.15 | bhima | dduardo: legally allowed where? |
| 23:36.25 | dduardo | US, UK, etc |
| 23:36.46 | dduardo | I'm sure the FCC wouldn't be too happy about this |
| 23:36.59 | loft306 | :) |
| 23:37.02 | dduardo | Or the US Government |
| 23:37.05 | bhima | the FCC wouldn't be happy if you could play audio from /dev/audio ? |
| 23:37.10 | bhima | to the phone/ |
| 23:37.19 | bhima | You can get series60 apps that do answering machines. |
| 23:37.27 | bhima | and add background noise to your calls. |
| 23:37.35 | bhima | "no, really, I'm busy waiting in traffic, honest" |
| 23:37.42 | dduardo | Well, ok, then if that is the case then that is great |
| 23:37.49 | apapia | dude that'd be cool too |
| 23:38.04 | dduardo | Its |
| 23:38.05 | apapia | hey guys, i'm calling from the Superbowl! |
| 23:38.12 | bhima | I just can't see any reason why the law would state "no audio processing is allowed" |
| 23:38.24 | bhima | Many BT headsets do DSP already. |
| 23:38.47 | apapia | yeah, that's the entire reason i want a linux phone, so i can do stuff to /dev/audio |
| 23:39.02 | bhima | I want to do stuff with caller ID. |
| 23:39.04 | bhima | And messaging. |
| 23:39.12 | bhima | and availability. |
| 23:39.28 | apapia | there are a ton of possibilities |
| 23:40.15 | bhima | I want to know if yiou want to receive a call or not. |
| 23:40.20 | apapia | you think the open source community can make some killer apps that actually get openMoko to the level of the iPhone? |
| 23:40.30 | bhima | apapia: No. |
| 23:40.41 | apapia | yeah, i don't think so either |
| 23:40.44 | dduardo | ALICE + festival: Your phone talks for you |
| 23:40.47 | apapia | oh well, i'll have one |
| 23:41.03 | bhima | I think that the open source community can make apps that are insanely cool and aren't available on he iPhone. |
| 23:41.12 | dduardo | Alice generates the texts and you have festival to the text-to-speech |
| 23:41.26 | apapia | that's cool |
| 23:41.37 | bhima | ALICE? |
| 23:41.38 | apapia | so you call my phone and have a conversation with a computer |
| 23:41.51 | dduardo | http://www.alicebot.org/ |
| 23:41.53 | bhima | well, see, why even call my phone? |
| 23:41.58 | bhima | Call my inbound VoIP number. |
| 23:42.02 | apapia | if only my phone could pass the Turing test |
| 23:42.09 | bhima | Once ALICE decides to let you through, it opens up the channel. |
| 23:42.48 | apapia | that's a good thought, have a computer talk to the caller to verify it's not talking to a computer |
| 23:42.49 | apapia | haha |
| 23:43.16 | dduardo | You have the phone make sure the call is urgent. Otherwise It asks you to leave a message |
| 23:43.44 | dduardo | Like a portable secretary |
| 23:45.07 | apapia | nice |
| 23:45.13 | dduardo | I would also like to be able to receive and send faxes |
| 23:45.22 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84-122-63-17.onocable.ono.com) |
| 23:45.34 | apapia | like your phone reads you the fax? |
| 23:45.41 | dduardo | For example, if i'm on the road and need to ok a form I should be able to recieve a fax, sign it with the styus and send it back. |
| 23:45.47 | apapia | and you dictate a fax? |
| 23:46.07 | apapia | ok, or just a digital document |
| 23:46.35 | dduardo | Dictating a fax would be tricking. You would need to OCR the thing first |
| 23:47.14 | dduardo | Although Google did opensource tesseract, which is an OCR program |
| 23:47.27 | bhima | What if I have my computer do the calling, to verify that it gets to a person and not an answering machine? |
| 23:47.35 | bhima | And you ahve a computer screening, making sure it's a person and not a computer? |
| 23:48.43 | koen | tesseract: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?action=details&pnm=tesseract |
| 23:48.49 | dduardo | That would be tricky. There are too many posibilties |
| 23:49.01 | koen | so it's available for the neo as well |
| 23:49.17 | dduardo | It also on sourceforge |
| 23:49.53 | koen | the packaged version for arm isn't |
| 23:49.57 | koen | only the source |
| 23:50.38 | dduardo | yeah, the source is platform independent |
| 23:52.54 | dduardo | I wonder what data speed you could get if you simulated a accoustic coupler in software on the Neo. |
| 23:53.19 | dduardo | 20kb perhaps |
| 23:53.39 | *** part/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 23:53.39 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 23:54.02 | bhima | I don't think you can do that. |
| 23:54.11 | bhima | NO faster than 1200bps to a standard modem, iirc. |
| 23:54.28 | bhima | the GSM codec blows away the phase information, which is used for 2400bps and higher modems. |
| 23:55.53 | dduardo | That's still good enough to do text messaging between two neos |
| 23:56.09 | bhima | Why not use GPRS...? |
| 23:56.22 | dduardo | Doesn't that cost extra? |
| 23:56.35 | bhima | depends on what you have, plan-wise. |
| 23:56.44 | bhima | I have an unlimited plan. |
| 23:56.47 | dduardo | If you have two neos on the same network you get unlimited minutes |
| 23:57.12 | bhima | That depends on your network, too. |
| 23:57.13 | dduardo | SMS and all the data stuff is extra |
| 23:57.20 | bhima | When I was in Germany, I didn't get that. |
| 23:57.36 | dduardo | well the US blows in terms of cellular service |
| 23:57.48 | thedaniel | but the US rocks in terms of cheap cellular data |
| 23:58.07 | dduardo | I wish there was some sort of net neutrallity with cellular networks |
| 23:58.07 | bhima | US cellular service is damned cheap compared to EU. |
| 23:58.41 | dduardo | I shouldn't matter if it is voice, text, data extra |
| 23:58.53 | bhima | dduardo: waht do you mean? |
| 23:59.21 | dduardo | For example, right now you don't pay extra for sending IMs over the internet |
| 23:59.28 | dduardo | Or doing VOIP |
| 23:59.33 | dduardo | or whatever |
| 23:59.41 | dduardo | That's what net neutrality means |
| 23:59.45 | dduardo | Everything is equal |
