| 00:00.08 | xkr47 | better yet, I'd join the giggle and laughter from fellow passengers ;-) |
| 00:00.21 | spikebik1 | crap I thought there was some news today |
| 00:00.47 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:06.56 | marcellus | meyerm: it isn't? |
| 00:07.44 | kabturek | so |
| 00:07.55 | meyerm | marcellus: mailman return a "bug" when I try to subscribe. |
| 00:07.55 | kabturek | will it support full hd ?;) |
| 00:08.26 | meyerm | marcellus: When confirming my subscription |
| 00:10.44 | Zer0Her0 | i keep hearing rumors of an announcement, what was supposed to be announced? |
| 00:12.43 | kabturek | Zer0Her0, if anyone knew - what would be the purpose of the announcement ? ;) |
| 00:13.22 | Zer0Her0 | true, but was it FIC or who that's supposed to announce stuff |
| 00:13.32 | Zer0Her0 | :-P |
| 00:28.29 | rwhitby | I'm formally announcing that I have nothing to announce. |
| 00:29.21 | cbpage | heh |
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| 00:31.30 | marcellus | rwhitby: when do you expect nothing to be released? |
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| 00:31.39 | rwhitby | marcellus: immediately |
| 00:31.59 | rwhitby | look, I was correct! |
| 00:33.59 | kabturek | "We're sorry, we hit a bug!" (subscribing to lists) |
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| 01:01.34 | parag0n | site just died :/ |
| 01:02.32 | Zer0Her0 | which site? |
| 01:07.49 | ozamosi | To many people reloading it to get to see the rumored anouncement first :) |
| 01:09.07 | Zer0Her0 | haha |
| 01:09.25 | libervisco | did OpenMoko exist before Apple iPhone? |
| 01:09.47 | libervisco | I'd just like to know whether Apple can rightfully claim to have reinvented the phone or not :) |
| 01:10.25 | libervisco | favoring OpenMoko |
| 01:11.11 | Zer0Her0 | well Apple has reinvented reinventing |
| 01:11.16 | Zer0Her0 | so they can reinvent ANYTHING |
| 01:11.51 | libervisco | heh |
| 01:12.03 | kabturek | libervisco, how long is before ? |
| 01:12.41 | libervisco | well OpenMoko surfaced about the same time Apple iPhone did so I'm not sure.. |
| 01:12.58 | libervisco | who was the first with the idea of such a multifunctional phone? |
| 01:13.15 | Sketch | openmoko surfaced a few months ago |
| 01:13.24 | kabturek | libervisco, but what date are we talking about ? the date of stevie showing the phone ? |
| 01:14.10 | libervisco | kabturek, yeah, though there was talk of it long before.. |
| 01:14.40 | libervisco | hm but I guess there is one thing Apple didn't invent, open hardware based phone :) |
| 01:14.51 | kabturek | the press releases with the mockups are from 2006.11.7 |
| 01:14.55 | libervisco | with Linux running it and ability to extend it with free applications :) |
| 01:14.59 | mjr | well, preliminary neo press images have been there since last autumn. Probably been pretty much coinciding development though |
| 01:15.01 | kabturek | http://openmoko.com/press/index.html |
| 01:15.33 | libervisco | ok, thanks |
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| 01:37.29 | PirateHead | libervisco, still around? |
| 01:39.05 | libervisco | yeah, writing :) |
| 01:40.31 | parag0n | make sure to link us when you're finished |
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| 01:40.46 | libervisco | parag0n, sure |
| 01:57.36 | libervisco | Is OpenMoko already available for sale somewhere? |
| 01:59.09 | jjazz | libervisco: read the topic |
| 01:59.16 | jjazz | libervisco: Not on sale yet |
| 01:59.35 | jjazz | libervisco: Not even preorders yet |
| 01:59.35 | libervisco | oh sorry |
| 01:59.37 | jjazz | np |
| 01:59.38 | libervisco | thx |
| 01:59.46 | jjazz | Just a good source of info. |
| 02:03.02 | libervisco | ok here is it http://www.libervis.com/article/forget_iphone_hail_openmoko_the_true_revolution :) |
| 02:03.14 | libervisco | not very big, but doesn't have to be |
| 02:07.39 | parag0n | i keep looking at pictures of the neo1973, and whimpering because i want one so much :/ |
| 02:08.08 | libervisco | hehe |
| 02:08.21 | libervisco | I'll be buying one as soon as it is available here :) |
| 02:08.28 | libervisco | if the price is not *too* high |
| 02:09.40 | parag0n | well, $350 pits it at around £200 for me, which is pretty cheap for such a good looking phone |
| 02:10.00 | parag0n | especially when my palm TX cost me 125, and has no phone features at all |
| 02:10.04 | ozamosi | I wonder how much shipping from asia would cost... Sounds expensive :) |
| 02:11.06 | libervisco | indeed, it's not too much.. |
| 02:11.38 | libervisco | there are even more expensive ordinary mobile phones today that don't go near the functionality of this |
| 02:11.52 | parag0n | considering my last phone, samsung e900 would have cost ~250 if i hadn't got it on contract |
| 02:12.11 | parag0n | and thats justa normal slide phone |
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| 02:42.41 | spikebik1 | booo |
| 02:42.54 | spikebik1 | boo, news article says march 8-( |
| 02:43.27 | ciastek | where? what? |
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| 02:53.22 | summatusmentis | it's gonna be GSM right? no CDMA? |
| 02:57.58 | noidd | what news article? |
| 02:59.14 | jjazz | libervisco: I think your article misses a chance to be really useful |
| 02:59.29 | jjazz | libervisco: A side-by-side spec and feature comparison, would be awesome. |
| 03:04.06 | det | jjazz, comparison of what? |
| 03:04.35 | jjazz | det: He wrote a piece about why the Neo beats the iPhone. |
| 03:04.36 | summatusmentis | det: iPhone vs. Neo1973 I think |
| 03:04.46 | det | Oh, I see. |
| 03:04.53 | det | I think I read a comparison on the wiki. |
| 03:05.06 | jjazz | det: Ah, I'll go take a look. Thanks. |
| 03:05.14 | libervisco | jjazz, yes, but the whole point is that the reason OpenMoko really beats iPhone doesn't lie in its current tehnical specification, but it being *open* |
| 03:05.29 | libervisco | in that sense, specs are much irrelevant |
| 03:05.42 | det | Great point. |
| 03:05.51 | jjazz | libervisco: Yes, I agree. But specs are important too, and comparing them is a niche that needs filling. |
| 03:06.10 | jjazz | Specs can't be irrelevant. They're a huge part of the equation for most people. |
| 03:06.30 | jjazz | I would never buy a closed device, but I still want to know how my open device stacks up against the state of the art. |
| 03:06.42 | vitaminmoo | I am looking forward to the possibility of a teeny usb keyboard (with batteries in it) so I can use the openmoko as a 640x480 console to ssh around with >:) |
| 03:07.10 | libervisco | jjazz, I agree.. I'm just not sure the comparison would fit there.. |
| 03:07.18 | libervisco | is there even enough info to do it? |
| 03:07.43 | jjazz | libervisco: I don't know, which is why I was hoping you'd do the work for me. :P |
| 03:07.53 | libervisco | hehe :) |
| 03:08.57 | jjazz | det: Do you have a link to the wiki? |
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| 03:11.09 | lukas | Hey, are nexels GSM? |
| 03:12.08 | Zer0Her0 | haha |
| 03:12.15 | ciastek | btw vitaminmoo, can i use bluetooth keyboard with neo? |
| 03:12.48 | Zer0Her0 | i really don't understand this time in mass production how we still can't meet demand |
| 03:12.59 | jjazz | lukas: Some nextel phones contain GSM radios, but nextel's network isn't gsm. |
| 03:16.56 | jjazz | libervisco: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/iPhone has the table I was looking for |
| 03:17.20 | libervisco | oh |
| 03:17.31 | libervisco | I just started doing it.. I guess I'll just link to it then :) |
| 03:17.33 | libervisco | thanks |
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| 03:43.57 | *** join/#openmoko SyntaxNinja (n=ijones@71-215-157-178.ptld.qwest.net) |
| 03:46.51 | SyntaxNinja | <PROTECTED> |
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| 03:57.49 | SyntaxNinja | is there an explanation of openmoko out there somewhere? there's not much info on the openmoko.com web site. |
| 04:00.35 | Tv | SyntaxNinja: mailing list archive |
| 04:02.58 | SyntaxNinja | ahh |
| 04:05.21 | wiml | the available info is still pretty scanty --- but the mailing list archive is where to look |
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| 04:10.48 | SyntaxNinja | hmm. I wonder if it's intentional, or just that busy folks haven't gotten around to putting more information on the web site. |
| 04:11.04 | SyntaxNinja | I've been in the market for a linux-based phone that I can hack for a while, but it's surprisingly hard to find good information. |
| 04:11.58 | Tv | SyntaxNinja: get to know openembedded, wait for the hardware release |
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| 04:15.11 | SyntaxNinja | can I ask a nieve question, is openmoko meant to compete with trolltech's qtopia? is there any relationship between the projects? |
| 04:15.41 | Tv | SyntaxNinja: the green phone is nothing but a developer kit |
| 04:15.54 | Tv | it's not really directly competing |
| 04:16.59 | SyntaxNinja | and openmoko is an entire platform, you mean? |
| 04:17.17 | ozamosi | qtopia uses trolltech's Qt, OpenMoko uses GTK, so on an interface level they're "competing", just like Gnome and KDE. On a deeper level, I believe there are more cooperation, in that code should flow both ways. |
| 04:17.45 | SyntaxNinja | the hardware release is coming soon? next month or so? is that a commercial releas,e or just to developers? |
| 04:17.48 | aloril | qtopia is not open so no 'real' competition |
| 04:18.00 | Tv | SyntaxNinja: you aren't supposed to use the greenphone as an actual phone; you are supposed to use moko |
| 04:18.18 | SyntaxNinja | ahh, that's what I was getting at... qtopia is not open source? |
| 04:18.32 | ozamosi | It is. Kind of. In a way :) |
| 04:18.46 | SyntaxNinja | heh |
| 04:19.10 | SyntaxNinja | Tv: I'm confused. greenphone is the qtopia project, and you can't use it as a phone? you mean basically just that it's only in a development release? |
| 04:19.21 | Tv | SyntaxNinja: It's for developers only. |
| 04:19.22 | aloril | umm.. I mean greenphone is not open, qtopia is dual licensed like qt is |
| 04:19.31 | SyntaxNinja | I was actually wondering about the Neo1973 |
| 04:19.39 | Tv | SyntaxNinja: it's meant for vendors who want to build their own linux-based phone, to use as a prototype |
| 04:19.50 | ozamosi | greenphone is a "proof of concept", I believe. |
| 04:19.51 | SyntaxNinja | Tv: ahh. interesting |
| 04:19.54 | Tv | openmoko is something you can give your mother |
| 04:20.04 | SyntaxNinja | my mother already has a crackberry ;) |
| 04:20.25 | ozamosi | Gah. I'll be quiet now: Tv says everything I want to say, but much faster :( |
| 04:20.35 | ozamosi | ...and much better. |
| 04:20.53 | SyntaxNinja | hehe |
| 04:21.02 | wiml | the openmoko hardware is also going to be sold with closed-source firmware in some market or other (china I think), so the linux openmoko project is kind of piggybacking on that hardware |
| 04:21.03 | SyntaxNinja | so... are there any open-platform linux-based phones available now? |
| 04:21.21 | wiml | motorola has a linux-based pda-phone or two |
| 04:21.22 | SyntaxNinja | wiml: and the openmoko hardware is the neo? |
| 04:21.36 | wiml | SyntaxNinja: yes |
| 04:22.10 | SyntaxNinja | OK, I'll google aorund for motorola phones... |
| 04:22.51 | SyntaxNinja | so am I right in thinking that openmoko is meant to be a software platform that could run on a linux-based phone, and any phone vendor could just choose to use openmoko instead of developing an in-house software platform? |
| 04:22.57 | aloril | well.. I have heard that lots of Motorola Linux phones is closed, just underlying OS is open |
| 04:23.25 | aloril | SyntaxNinja: yes, a bit like Fedora |
| 04:25.53 | SyntaxNinja | Ok cool. you guys have been very helpful. I guess I'll keep holding out for a hackable linux phone. hope it happens soon :) |
| 04:26.09 | ozamosi | SyntaxNinja: have a look at http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8591201260.html |
| 04:26.17 | _ASK | it will, it seems that it's going to be released on fabruary |
| 04:26.23 | ozamosi | It basicly say exactly what we just did :) |
| 04:27.40 | SyntaxNinja | nice article. It was the Nokia N800 that started me wondering abuot this stuff... why the heck isn't that a phone? |
| 04:28.00 | Tv | SyntaxNinja: because of nokia internal politics |
| 04:28.12 | Tv | SyntaxNinja: they don't want to threaten their own phones |
| 04:28.22 | aloril | and probably don't want to open phone related stuff |
| 04:28.39 | SyntaxNinja | how lame |
| 04:28.40 | aloril | ie.. as Tv said, politics ;-) |
| 04:28.54 | ozamosi | I think maemo is an experiment for nokia: eventually, when maemo runs good enough, they might switch their phones to linux |
| 04:29.00 | SyntaxNinja | I played with an N800 the other day, and it's really nice! if it were a phone, I'd probably buy it today. |
| 04:29.18 | SyntaxNinja | I have a treo now, and really like the qwerty keyboard. |
| 04:31.09 | ozamosi | SyntaxNinja: yeah. I've never touched a N800 or 770, but I've actually considered buying one to replace my phone even though it lacks the ability to call anyone |
| 04:31.26 | ozamosi | Luckily, I found this project before I did. |
| 04:32.20 | SyntaxNinja | heh |
| 04:33.24 | aloril | link from mailing list, not up to date with Finland: http://msmobiles.com/catalog/i.php/578.html |
| 04:39.19 | SyntaxNinja | so is there an emulator for openmoko or openembedded (?) where I can play w/ the phone software now? should I troll around http://www.openembedded.org/ until I find some software to build? |
| 04:39.52 | Tv | SyntaxNinja: qemu |
| 04:40.43 | ozamosi | openmoko.org promises to be where the phone software will be when it gets released |
| 04:43.07 | SyntaxNinja | Tv: qemu us just a pc emulator, right? but ozamosi is saying the software isn't available yet? |
| 04:43.30 | Tv | SyntaxNinja: did you read up on openembedded? |
| 04:44.07 | SyntaxNinja | Tv: sorry, just a little bit. I'm taking a broad reading of a lot of things right now :) I'll read openembedded.org if that's where to look :) |
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| 06:00.52 | aloril | as far as I know peak has been 157 2007-01-15 21:35:25 (EET) |
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| 07:48.40 | nasum | join #zaurus |
| 07:48.45 | nasum | ;) oops |
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| 09:05.04 | greentux | morning |
| 09:05.20 | xkr47 | morning |
| 09:15.57 | buz | http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/weblogsinc/engadgetmobile/~3/75923446/ so maybe next version can do without global locate? |
| 09:16.34 | buz | and use the real estate for wifi or more flash ;) |
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| 10:00.21 | aloril | hmm.. I wonder when there will be GPS/Bluetooth/WiFi chip |
| 10:11.39 | *** join/#openmoko apokryphos (n=francis@87-194-86-227.bethere.co.uk) |
| 10:13.17 | buz | when CSR buys a wifi vendor ;) |
| 10:13.21 | buz | or vice versa |
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| 11:02.51 | CM | mickey|gprs: gprs from what? :) |
| 11:05.30 | mickey|gprs | ICE train using a MOTO A780 |
| 11:05.31 | mickey|gprs | unfortunately not yet using a Neo :) |
| 11:05.31 | mickey|gprs | but soon |
| 11:05.31 | CM | I was just hoping |
| 11:05.31 | greentux | mickey|gprs: hi |
| 11:05.46 | greentux | mickey|gprs: when can we expect the "today" announcement :) ? |
| 11:05.48 | Stephmw | mickey|gprs: flat-rate data package? |
| 11:06.26 | xkr47 | greentux, ok let's stop harrassing him now :) |
| 11:07.36 | mickey|gprs | greentux: hey. i expect / hope during the next 12h |
| 11:07.44 | mickey|gprs | Stephmw: yeah. flatrate |
| 11:08.31 | Stephmw | any idea if simapps will be supported on r1 btw? |
| 11:08.34 | Stephmw | mickey|gprs: good :) |
| 11:08.53 | greentux | mickey|gprs: good journey, will the openmoko be @gsmcongress in barcelona? |
| 11:10.18 | *** join/#openmoko kabturek (n=kabturek@lomza2.lom.vectranet.pl) |
| 11:11.14 | kabturek | im having problems signing on to the mailing lists |
| 11:11.48 | xkr47 | kabturek, it took 2 days for me |
| 11:11.52 | xkr47 | so be patient :) |
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| 11:12.02 | xkr47 | (I don't say it's normal but) |
| 11:12.37 | kabturek | no i got the emails but have an error when i try to confirm it |
| 11:13.24 | Stephmw | hrw|work: ;-) |
| 11:13.29 | Stephmw | hrw|work: which app? |
| 11:13.30 | koen | hrw|work: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-December/000884.html |
| 11:14.01 | hrw|work | koen: I know, I know |
| 11:14.09 | xkr47 | kabturek, it worked for me (thanks for reminding, had forgotten to go confirm) |
| 11:14.20 | hrw|work | Stephmw: city communication |
| 11:14.45 | Stephmw | hrw|work: hmmm, not familiar with that one |
| 11:16.34 | hrw|work | Stephmw: it is for local communication only |
| 11:18.22 | kabturek | hrw|work, local as in ? ;) |
| 11:19.32 | hrw|work | kabturek: Ginger supports Poznań only currently but allow to create 'rozkłady' in xml format |
| 11:20.06 | kabturek | hrw|work, oh i was hoping for Warsaw :) |
| 11:21.50 | mickey|gprs | Stephmw: I heard yesterday that the STK is an overwhelmingingly large spec that no one likes to implement if it's not superneccessary |
| 11:21.53 | mickey|gprs | hrw|work: which one? |
| 11:22.37 | Stephmw | mickey|gprs: is it implementable by non-FIC? |
| 11:23.16 | kabturek | mickey|gprs, there were some rumours here yesterday that you will announce something today ;) |
| 11:23.27 | mickey|gprs | greentux: when is this congress in Barcelona? |
| 11:23.48 | greentux | mickey|gprs: 12.-15.feb |
| 11:24.30 | hrw|work | mickey|gprs: Ginger |
| 11:24.36 | greentux | mickey|gprs: so it would be a nice place for "openess" demonstration |
| 11:26.39 | mickey|gprs | Stephmw: absolutely. AFAIK it's not rocket science, it's just huge. It sits on top of the AT command layer which is open, so anyone could do it. |
| 11:26.54 | mickey|gprs | not me, but yes, there is supposed to be an announcement within 12h or so |
| 11:27.02 | mickey|gprs | i'm just a tiny contractor, i have no power to announce anything :) |
| 11:27.10 | mickey|gprs | greentux: that should fit with one part of our schedule. I'll point our PM to it |
| 11:28.19 | Stephmw | mickey|gprs: that's fine then - it'll eventually get done. I need simapps for handset-initiated settings queries, as well as for various bits like micropayment auth/encr |
| 11:28.44 | greentux | mickey|gprs: ok fine, if there is some support needed... |
| 11:31.23 | mickey|gprs | interesting |
| 11:31.51 | *** join/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@61.144.97.137) |
| 11:32.54 | xkr47 | yes, interesting |
| 11:36.48 | Stephmw | you did know you can store certificates on a simcard and get stuff encrypted using them via simapps, right? |
| 11:37.03 | Stephmw | it's fast enough for low quality voice ;) |
| 11:37.13 | Stephmw | although the connection to the apps is serial only |
| 11:37.52 | Stephmw | I would have thought some of this support would have been required for PIN, PUK, PUK2 support, but I'm no expert |
| 11:38.14 | koen | PIN, PUK, PUK2, IDIOT3 |
| 11:38.37 | xkr47 | Stephmw, is the sim accessed through the GSM processor ? |
| 11:38.49 | xkr47 | (or somebody else =) |
| 11:38.58 | mickey|gprs | heh |
| 11:39.09 | mickey|gprs | absolutely, everything goes through the AT command interface |
| 11:39.27 | *** join/#openmoko MousseT (n=johnyras@90.225-241-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 11:39.29 | xkr47 | so the only interface to the GSM processor is through AT commands ? |
| 11:39.54 | mickey|gprs | yeah |
| 11:40.23 | mjr | (and analog audio, if you count that, apparently) |
| 11:40.52 | xkr47 | AT%AUDIO=808179F3390137 |
| 11:40.53 | xkr47 | ?-) |
| 11:40.57 | mickey|gprs | right |
| 11:41.12 | xkr47 | I hope the protocol works better than in the nokia premicell I have at home |
| 11:41.26 | xkr47 | if you send data too quickly it acts as if it was never sent :P |
| 11:41.50 | xkr47 | (the premicell is a gsm phone primarily meant to be connected to a computer) |
| 11:41.56 | xkr47 | it's like 25 x 15 cm :) |
| 11:42.29 | mickey|gprs | ah |
| 11:42.51 | mickey|gprs | no, the TI chipset works pretty good |
| 11:42.56 | xkr47 | nice nice |
| 11:43.01 | mickey|gprs | no problems whatsoever sofar |
| 11:43.01 | mickey|gprs | but of course, we didn't do exhaustive tests yet |
| 11:43.10 | xkr47 | so you don't have to do usleep(10) here and there.. :) |
| 11:44.00 | mickey|gprs | don't think so, but you'll see the code soon |
| 11:45.00 | koen | 'soon' or 'trolltech soon'? |
| 11:45.09 | xkr47 | will the code be out at a different time ? |
| 11:45.21 | xkr47 | or is it getting merged into the kernel already :) |
| 11:45.35 | xkr47 | I mean linus' |
| 11:48.32 | hrw|work | xkr47: they use 2.6.17.14 kernel so will work on merging some time after release rather |
| 11:48.55 | hrw|work | xkr47: 2.6.18 has some changes which neo1973 is not ready for yet |
| 11:49.00 | xkr47 | I thought so |
| 11:49.04 | xkr47 | oh |
| 11:49.58 | xkr47 | some complex internal stuff or some api changes? |
| 11:50.15 | xkr47 | I guess it will eventually overcome the 2.6.18 challenges |
| 11:50.37 | Stephmw | I vaguely remember something about interrupts |
| 11:50.52 | koen | genirq got merged in 2.6.17, right? |
| 11:51.29 | koen | ah, no 2.6.18 |
| 11:51.31 | koen | http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_2_6_18#head-f8ff44dc826426ffbaf35cd74e83722e2ee4a491 |
| 11:52.41 | *** join/#openmoko myren (n=myren@63.231.83.177) |
| 11:53.00 | mickey|gprs | the AT interface library is userland |
| 11:54.14 | mickey|gprs | anyway at such a stage of a project, you try not to change anything if you don't absolutely need. what you're shooting for is a first release and then update later. |
| 11:54.43 | hrw|work | mickey|gprs: release with gtk 2.6.10 and then will try to reverse numbers? |
| 11:54.47 | xkr47 | mickey|gprs, certainly |
| 11:54.48 | hrw|work | 2.6.10 -> 2.10.6 |
| 11:55.00 | Stephmw | mickey|gprs: OTA firmware updates? /hides |
| 11:55.12 | xkr47 | hrw|work, nicely reversed ;D |
| 11:57.35 | mickey|gprs | hrw|work: yeah |
| 11:58.09 | mickey|gprs | Stephmw: rather not |
| 11:58.35 | Stephmw | mickey|gprs: scary thought, isn't it :) |
| 11:59.06 | xkr47 | "Do not boot your device while auto-updating firmware, thank you!" |
| 11:59.11 | mickey|gprs | it is |
| 11:59.11 | mickey|gprs | i wouldn't want to let that happen transparently |
| 11:59.17 | *** join/#openmoko _ericthefish (n=ericthef@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 11:59.51 | *** join/#openmoko unique (n=unique@ip43071.stuwe.fh-schmalkalden.de) |
| 11:59.54 | mickey|gprs | thankfully, the BP has no access to anything RAM or flash anyway |
| 12:01.40 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-171-205.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:02.14 | *** join/#openmoko etf|work (n=etf|work@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 12:05.58 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
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| 12:20.54 | meyerm_ | Hmm |
| 12:20.58 | meyerm_ | wiki: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/iPhone |
| 12:21.03 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@repl.esden.net) |
| 12:21.10 | meyerm_ | Says "multitouch", IRC channel says "multitouch no" |
| 12:21.29 | mickey|gprs | can you fix? |
| 12:21.33 | mickey|gprs | (the wiki, not the IRC channel) |
| 12:22.08 | meyerm_ | Sure, erledigt :) |
| 12:22.25 | mickey|gprs | thanks |
| 12:23.23 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 12:23.59 | meyerm_ | mickey|gprs: since you're using GPRS at the moment with a flatrate: which one would you suggest in Germany? I just need an "always available" ssh-console but don't want to pay my whole salary for it ;) |
| 12:24.23 | mickey|gprs | that's tough |
| 12:24.30 | mickey|gprs | basically there is only one affordable one |
| 12:24.38 | mickey|gprs | BASE voice+internet flatrate |
| 12:24.40 | koen | mickey|gprs: the 'within 12 hours' means 'when sean gets internet access'? |
| 12:24.42 | mickey|gprs | 50EUR a month |
| 12:24.47 | mickey|gprs | everything else is more expensive |
| 12:25.17 | mickey|gprs | koen: yep. + making a document out of random points |
| 12:25.22 | mjr | that's a bit on the hefty side itself... |
| 12:25.33 | mickey|gprs | koen: but he can do that while he flies back to Taipeh |
| 12:25.46 | mickey|gprs | mjr: true, but you won't get lower atm. |
| 12:25.56 | mjr | yeah, I got that |
| 12:26.01 | meyerm_ | mickey|gprs: Hmm, I currently have an E-Plus company contract for my phone and must say, I'm not very happy with the coverage especially outside of towns. :-/ But I feared that it would be the cheapest ;-) |
| 12:26.02 | mjr | sorry for germans |
| 12:26.05 | meyerm_ | thanks |
| 12:26.39 | mickey|gprs | np. indeed t-mobile still has the better network here |
| 12:27.09 | koen | mickey|gprs: http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS6896388758.html |
| 12:27.27 | koen | "The MotoRizr Z6 -- expected to ship by mid-year, but already being demonstrated at the CES show this week in Las Vegas -- is probably based on a Freescale i.MX31." |
| 12:27.38 | koen | that is some serious processing power for a phone |
| 12:28.32 | mickey|gprs | that's nothing compared to v2 |
| 12:29.02 | koen | ah, the v2 will have a core4quadro at 200GHz |
| 12:29.05 | mickey|gprs | how does it look like? |
| 12:29.37 | koen | razr meets tosa |
| 12:29.38 | mjr | processing power looks good, however the "Full QVGA (240x320) color display" bit makes one snicker a bit |
| 12:29.51 | hrw|work | koen: dual core4quad |
| 12:30.04 | hrw|work | mjr: most of phones has 176x220 |
| 12:30.20 | mjr | I know, just the concept of full. quarter. |
| 12:31.16 | hrw|work | 1 |
| 12:31.28 | meyerm_ | koen: any idea _how_ open the Motorola will be? Currently they seem to have some closed parts. |
| 12:31.40 | mjr | seems that the motorola lacks in openness department |
| 12:31.49 | mjr | http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS3930753667.html |
| 12:32.30 | mjr | mostly I deduce this from "Mobilinux appears to be available today, under a subscription-based, non-royalty bearing license." |
| 12:36.33 | buz | motorola lacks in most departments really |
| 12:36.57 | buz | personally i think they can't even design, the razr is a hideous phone |
| 12:37.23 | koen | can't spell either |
| 12:37.34 | buz | does moto still control freescale? |
| 12:37.44 | buz | (would make sense to buy chips from a daughter company) |
| 12:38.12 | koen | buz: fwiw, sharp doesn't use sharp arm cpu's in their own products |
| 12:38.31 | buz | mhh my toshiba notebook came with hitachi hd |
| 12:38.40 | buz | (even though toshiba makes tons of mobile hd) |
| 12:38.53 | buz | and the hitachi one is a noise SoB |
| 12:39.52 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=rac0r@p54AA7B32.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:42.18 | buz | v2 needs a cpu fast enough to emulate a fpga in software |
| 12:43.33 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-125-230-142.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 12:48.56 | xkr47 | hmm, doesn't the iphone have a greater resolution than neo1973 ??? |
| 12:49.14 | buz | bigger screen, half the pixels |
| 12:49.57 | xkr47 | woot!! neo ownage |
| 12:50.13 | andr34s | :D |
| 12:50.25 | buz | tho i would love a neo with screen oer the whole size of the case |
| 12:50.29 | buz | and no round case |
| 12:50.55 | xkr47 | I think round is perfect for pockets but I've stopped keeping it in my pockets because I tend to bump into table corners and so :D |
| 12:52.25 | Sencer | round also makes it harder to drop the device on it's edges ^^ |
| 12:53.06 | xkr47 | meyerm_, when was that wiki pulled up and by who ?-) |
| 12:53.12 | xkr47 | has it been announced here before? |
| 12:53.17 | mickey|gprs | how fast would be fast enough? |
| 12:54.04 | xkr47 | anything with half the processing power of an average pc ;)= |
| 12:54.29 | meyerm_ | xkr47: I don't know ;) |
| 12:55.26 | xkr47 | maybe it should be in the topic, maybe not |
| 12:55.44 | xkr47 | has anyone suggested anything about the battery life in units other than Ah ? |
| 12:56.25 | meyerm | mickey|gprs: That raises another question: do you know if the accu will be in some standard format? |
| 12:56.45 | meyerm | mickey|gprs: Will I be able to buy 2 and an external charger? |
| 12:59.49 | xkr47 | so the moko's screen occupies 47% x 69% of the front panel's rectangular size |
| 13:00.03 | buz | mickey|gprs: being able to decode fullscreen full res h264 video ;) |
| 13:01.02 | xkr47 | the iPhone uses 64% x 81% of the front panel's rectangular size |
| 13:02.09 | Sencer | the screen and the device-layout is not so bad. I think I posted this link the other day: http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p900vsneo1973to0.png |
| 13:02.42 | buz | the p900 has much more of its area covered by the screen |
| 13:02.46 | buz | which is a good thing to m |
| 13:02.47 | buz | e |
| 13:02.49 | xkr47 | Sencer, actually someone pasted some similar pic with only the leftmost green-red-neo part |
| 13:03.07 | mickey|gprs | accu is some special FIC accu. an external charger is not planned at this point of time. |
| 13:03.15 | mickey|gprs | for future versions i heard they will consider a "standard" accu, Nokia or MOTO compatible or something |
| 13:03.23 | mickey|gprs | something where there is a 3rd party industry |
| 13:04.07 | Sencer | does anybody know about the weight? |
| 13:04.23 | xkr47 | meyerm, maybe you could add a picture of iPhone and neo on the wiki such that they can be compared size-wise ?-) |
| 13:04.31 | buz | without the hole, the thing would easily be smaller than a p900 |
| 13:04.50 | meyerm | mickey|gprs: oook, then I hope that the accu will last long enough to be online for some worktime on the servers ;) |
| 13:05.11 | buz | i wonder if the silver edge could be replaced with rubber (think first gen archos player) |
| 13:05.22 | buz | that might make it much more resilient aginst dropping |
| 13:05.46 | xkr47 | buz, there are nice howtos online also how to rubberize things |
| 13:05.47 | mickey|gprs | meyerm: this i hope, too |
| 13:06.06 | buz | i just siliconized my ipod shuffle with a 0.7EUR skin |
| 13:06.13 | xkr47 | buz, you can buy some spray that puts a thiny rubbery cover on top |
| 13:06.19 | buz | yeah |
| 13:06.21 | xkr47 | buz, ok nice |
| 13:06.25 | buz | i'm gonna spray next to a display |
| 13:06.26 | buz | sure ;) |
| 13:06.55 | xkr47 | otoh the rubbery thing was considered very unhealthy to inhale so dunno about keeping it in your hand then |
| 13:07.09 | xkr47 | maybe it's unhealthy only in gas form, but still |
| 13:07.14 | buz | better get a readily made skin |
| 13:07.31 | buz | that can be removed and replaced easily, too |
| 13:07.35 | xkr47 | http://www.homaxproducts.com/products/other/03/index.html |
| 13:07.45 | buz | i just wonder if it would hinder heat disspation |
| 13:08.27 | xkr47 | ok that was not what I was looking for |
| 13:08.43 | buz | a chinese company sells spray on condoms |
| 13:08.46 | buz | that might work ;) |
| 13:08.55 | xkr47 | but there was some article on things for mouses, game controllers etc |
| 13:09.02 | xkr47 | buz lol |
| 13:09.45 | xkr47 | buz, I bet their FAQ has "Q: How to pee? A: The company has not yet answered this question" |
| 13:10.07 | buz | not sure if its even rubber or some sort of chemical weirdness |
| 13:10.19 | buz | i know there is contraceptive foam |
| 13:12.30 | xkr47 | ok I guess we can drop this discussion branch now :) |
| 13:13.25 | buz | foam coat the neo |
| 13:13.30 | buz | makes indestructible |
| 13:13.33 | buz | and FUGLY |
| 13:13.36 | meyerm | But I must admit that a rubber"frame" would be really nice. Now make it waterproof and I can take it with me on my canoe ;-) |
| 13:13.46 | meyerm | Well, perhaps v3 *g* |
| 13:14.06 | buz | meyerm: friend of mine thought his water proof sailing bag was perfect for his 1m old k800 |
| 13:14.22 | buz | well turns out it's mostly stopping water getting OUT of that bag ;) |
| 13:14.53 | meyerm | buz: hmm, that's not good ;) |
| 13:15.06 | *** join/#openmoko fledermaus (n=vivek@pdpc/supporter/active/fledermaus) |
| 13:16.02 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@unaffiliated/ninher) |
| 13:16.02 | *** part/#openmoko fledermaus (n=vivek@pdpc/supporter/active/fledermaus) |
| 13:16.02 | xkr47 | buz, :D |
| 13:16.04 | noidd | nice |
| 13:16.09 | noidd | mornin' everyone |
| 13:18.55 | Sencer | the ericsson 310 were really well done outdoor-phones, worked under water, too. |
| 13:21.04 | buz | the neo probably wouldnt |
| 13:21.13 | buz | i dont see how a touchscreen would work underwater very well |
| 13:21.13 | Sencer | http://www.dagbo.de/mobilejoe/pictures/Bier.JPG |
| 13:21.28 | Sencer | we used to do that a lot |
| 13:21.38 | Sencer | just have to be careful to turn off the vibration... |
| 13:21.51 | buz | waste of beer |
| 13:22.46 | buz | is it transreflective (i sure hope so) |
| 13:22.51 | xkr47 | I was thinking, maybe X could change the colors in "backlight off" mode so it would be more readable |
| 13:22.52 | buz | if not, not very readable |
| 13:23.14 | xkr47 | so you could see what the time is etc |
| 13:23.21 | parag0n | is it using X, or framebuffer? |
| 13:23.28 | buz | X |
| 13:23.33 | buz | on FB |
| 13:23.46 | xkr47 | buz, will one be able to access the framebuffer in X ? |
| 13:23.47 | buz | X via kdrive on FB i believe |
| 13:23.52 | buz | no idea |
| 13:24.06 | xkr47 | that would allow one to write graphics-intensive fullscreen apps |
| 13:24.23 | koen | X allows that as well |
| 13:24.26 | koen | as does SDL |
| 13:24.33 | xkr47 | well yeah |
| 13:24.47 | xkr47 | just thought it would use less cpu if you really needed it |
| 13:24.49 | Stephmw | typically you can just dump raw data to /dev/fb0 |
| 13:25.02 | koen | ask the opie people what insisting on framebuffer access bought them |
| 13:25.20 | meyerm | koen: What do you mean? That sounds interesting :) |
| 13:25.25 | xkr47 | at least I was memory mapping the /dev/fb0 on a friend's iPaq linux with X |
| 13:25.29 | xkr47 | and it worked fine |
| 13:25.46 | buz | http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/cx_news/vol38/acx526.html could be perfect for neo2 ;) |
| 13:25.55 | koen | xkr47: not every device has a memory mapped framebuffer |
| 13:26.03 | xkr47 | mm |
| 13:26.26 | xkr47 | I guess moko is using standard memory for display since the controller is embedded in the cpu |
| 13:26.31 | xkr47 | but I don't know.. :) |
| 13:28.33 | buz | actually the one in N800 might be neater even |
| 13:31.14 | xkr47 | buz, I don't think the sony display is water nor drool resistant either :) |
| 13:32.08 | buz | mhh the one in my p900 is reasonably resistant so far |
| 13:32.12 | buz | maybe not waterproof |
| 13:32.16 | buz | but certainly somewhat rainproof |
| 13:41.14 | noidd | the nicest display I've ever seen in my life was the Zaurus c750 |
| 13:41.23 | noidd | takes your breath away |
| 13:41.52 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jae@53-89.netblk-69-41-89.coolaccess.net) |
| 13:45.05 | koen | the one on the hx4700 is better |
| 13:45.11 | koen | transflective |
| 13:45.36 | mickey|gprs | you will love the Neo1973's then |
| 13:45.44 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@unaffiliated/ninher) |
| 13:46.29 | xorAxAx | what is transflective? |
| 13:46.36 | noidd | did I miss the announcement with my inevitable sleep schedule? |
| 13:46.37 | buz | reflects sunlight |
| 13:46.43 | buz | i.e. gets easier to see in daylight |
| 13:46.59 | noidd | not seen the hx4700 |
| 13:47.03 | xorAxAx | buz: ah, but with light transmission |
| 13:47.52 | hrw|work | mickey|gprs: compare neo screen to tosa one |
| 13:47.58 | xorAxAx | specular screens are clearly the worst, you see them often in notebooks nowadays ... i think they are only powerful when it comes to painting one's face |
| 13:48.01 | hrw|work | mickey|gprs: which one is better? |
| 13:48.05 | *** join/#openmoko esden_ (n=esden@wohnheim50.fh-rosenheim.de) |
| 13:48.20 | buz | what is tosa |
| 13:48.29 | hrw|work | ~tosa |
| 13:48.39 | apt | well, tosa is the Sharp SL-6000 PDA, or a dog (see http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/tosa.htm) |
| 13:48.52 | hrw|work | buz: tosa has best screen in zaurus line |
| 13:49.00 | buz | never seen a zaurus |
| 13:49.42 | noidd | haha |
| 13:49.47 | noidd | apt, botsnack |
| 13:49.47 | apt | aw, gee, noidd |
| 13:50.01 | noidd | buz: the clamshell models were breathtaking |
| 13:50.13 | hrw|work | buz: I have 4 models at home |
| 13:50.14 | noidd | it got me my last job |
| 13:50.27 | hrw|work | mickey|gprs: so which one is better? |
| 13:50.51 | noidd | "The last 2 years I developed some network management software for company X" |
| 13:50.58 | noidd | "Ok, tell me about it" |
| 13:51.20 | Stephmw | "how about I show you?" |
| 13:51.21 | noidd | "I'll show you" - (whip out cl750) - "There ya go, I ported it to my pda" |
| 13:51.32 | noidd | exactly Stephmw :-0 |
| 13:51.45 | Stephmw | noidd: I can't quite place my finger on it... Muse or RSoft? |
| 13:52.09 | noidd | in:control |
| 13:52.10 | mickey|gprs | hrw|work: i will take a picture once my openmoko-devel-image runs on the tosa |
| 13:52.32 | Stephmw | noidd: man, I've lost track of that market |
| 13:52.35 | noidd | I workd with RSoft at BA / Siemens for a while |
| 13:52.50 | noidd | it wasn't a large player |
| 13:53.01 | hrw|work | mickey|gprs: cant just tell? |
| 13:53.02 | noidd | what it did was network device version control |
| 13:53.33 | Stephmw | noidd: there was so much potential in the industry back then |
| 13:53.49 | noidd | ie - tftp or otherwise snag configurations and do diffs, change collation, and only allow access to installation engineers when they had tickets open. |
| 13:53.55 | Kaloz | people gone mad on the list? |
| 13:53.58 | noidd | Yeah, and it was completely wasted too. |
| 13:54.06 | Stephmw | noidd: agreed |
| 13:54.11 | Stephmw | Kaloz: more so than usual? |
| 13:54.11 | Kaloz | not to mention tha tmos tof the mails are simply bs.. :p |
| 13:54.15 | Kaloz | Stephmw: yeah |
| 13:54.27 | noidd | The way that RSoft's product was built is still orders of magnitude ahead of anything else. |
| 13:54.37 | buz | mhh no screaming for a fpga |
| 13:54.40 | buz | thats well within reason |
| 13:54.43 | Stephmw | noidd: So's the size of the core files |
| 13:54.47 | noidd | haha |
| 13:55.17 | noidd | Yeah, but at least if one of your modules dumped core - you still had another 6 instances running over your network |
| 13:55.21 | noidd | so no loss of service. |
| 13:55.36 | noidd | tibco ftw |
| 13:55.36 | Stephmw | for anyone not following this discussion... the core files in question tended to be 2gb |
| 13:55.58 | Stephmw | noidd: shame it was (ab)used for transporting the whole 800mb topo from the db |
| 13:55.59 | noidd | and thats after being limited by the shell :-) |
| 13:56.42 | noidd | Where'd you work with RSoft? It's kinda rare to meet people who've used it. |
| 13:57.04 | Stephmw | I worked *in* RSoft, on their Java config application |
| 13:57.04 | hrw|work | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:57.44 | Stephmw | I came in on the V3 product, V2 was errr... buggy? |
| 13:57.48 | noidd | in London? |
| 13:57.52 | Stephmw | Yup |
| 13:58.03 | noidd | man, we may have met previously |
| 13:58.10 | noidd | I spent a few days in with the pirhanas |
| 13:58.25 | Stephmw | were they still feeding them live fish back then? |
| 13:58.37 | noidd | I don't know, I was never in the office when they did |
| 13:58.46 | noidd | it just made me want to keep pirhanas too |
| 13:58.51 | Stephmw | then you mised it too... someone called the RSPCA on them :) |
| 13:59.00 | noidd | that's funny as hell |
| 13:59.16 | Stephmw | the purple+green walls got to me though |
| 13:59.55 | noidd | I spent a few days with the guy who wrote the Perl libraries |
| 14:00.26 | noidd | Before he emmigrated to the US to take a job with "some auction site" |
| 14:00.40 | noidd | may have been ebay for all I know - it was about the right timeframe |
| 14:00.45 | Stephmw | probably |
| 14:00.54 | Stephmw | it was a time of people jumping as far as possible |
| 14:01.10 | noidd | I still loved the product |
| 14:01.15 | noidd | even V2 |
| 14:01.26 | noidd | and when HP bought it and destroyed it I was pretty pissed of |
| 14:01.30 | noidd | there is no comparison. |
| 14:01.44 | Stephmw | actually, HP only licensed it |
| 14:01.56 | Stephmw | RSoft then dropped it for V3 |
| 14:02.04 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 14:02.40 | noidd | leaveing HP in the shit? |
| 14:02.40 | Stephmw | damn, meeting, back in a few hours |
| 14:02.45 | Stephmw | (aye) |
| 14:02.46 | noidd | so what happened to RSoft the company ? |
| 14:03.17 | noidd | later |
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| 14:26.53 | aloril | from mailing list: "Hey, what is the uptime of your Neo?" hmm.. I wonder what records will be ... |
| 14:27.14 | aloril | I guess some Neo using in some remote control or similar situation |
| 14:27.44 | koen | aloril: '0', it's not out yet |
| 14:32.38 | xkr47 | does the phone work with usb power alone ? |
| 14:32.41 | xkr47 | (no battery) |
| 14:33.51 | aloril | I would think at least if you leave usb power connected it would charge as needed? |
| 14:34.27 | aloril | + powered usb hub and then connect to item you want to monitor/control remotely -> huge uptime possible I guess |
| 14:35.22 | Stephmw | noidd: bah, double-booked the room |
| 14:35.39 | Stephmw | noidd: RSoft got bought out by Muse which got bought out by IBM |
| 14:35.53 | Stephmw | noidd: the RSoft software has pretty much died |
| 14:37.26 | xkr47 | :O |
| 14:37.33 | xkr47 | what is/was it ? |
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| 15:00.53 | theike01 | lspci |
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| 15:31.46 | noidd | RSoft was a network management product which was way ahead of its time. |
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| 15:51.33 | Laibsch | Sean was in Berlin? So when does his plane land in Taipeh? |
| 15:51.55 | *** join/#openmoko gw280 (n=george@vm.gwright.org.uk) |
| 15:52.16 | CM | Me too.. :) |
| 15:52.59 | parag0n | ooh, whtever will it be |
| 15:53.15 | parag0n | 'the neo1973 has been delayed until august' |
| 15:53.36 | Stephmw | noidd: when I was at RSoft, they'd just about hit 400 people... when I took voluntary redundancy 1.5yr later, there were 50 left |
| 15:54.34 | xkr47 | due to burnout or mutual agreements ?-) |
| 16:01.11 | Stephmw | I decided to jump before the redundancy pay hit $0 |
| 16:02.39 | noidd | sensible chap :-) |
| 16:03.21 | noidd | I wonder if Sean hand delivered serial# 00000000? to mickey ;-) |
| 16:07.08 | xkr47 | :) |
| 16:07.30 | xkr47 | "openmoko for collectors - serials 000000-000009 for sale" |
| 16:09.02 | noidd | can anyone here give me a rough idea of what typical redundancy would be for a US tech job |
| 16:09.11 | noidd | for 2 years of service |
| 16:09.35 | spikebik1 | redundancy? |
| 16:09.40 | noidd | I'm in a right to work state so anything above $1 is acceptable ;-P |
| 16:13.54 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-138-217-214-38.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 16:15.01 | skome | In the US, companies will drop you for free. They don't charge you anything. |
| 16:15.58 | xkr47 | lol |
| 16:16.34 | noidd | hmm, I smell chili |
| 16:16.36 | noidd | bbiab |
| 16:16.38 | noidd | lunch! |
| 16:17.20 | Stephmw | skome: aye, one of my biggest reason for not working in the US |
| 16:20.09 | skome | I hear you. One day we might become civilized (and efficient/effective) again. Maybe. Or not. |
| 16:20.35 | xkr47 | one day we'll move to the moon |
| 16:21.50 | Stephmw | skome: 'civilized' is a quaint notion these days... it's just whatever is most prevalent. Once the US has a majority stake in the world, through 'hostile' takeovers, standards will drop sufficiently to include it as a civilised nation ;) |
| 16:22.08 | *** join/#openmoko thedaniel (n=daniel@adsl-75-4-229-50.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:22.53 | skome | heh. Or maybe, >sob< |
| 16:33.59 | buz | Stephmw: the us is not gonna buy the world anytime soon |
| 16:34.11 | buz | unless the chinese pay for it, that is |
| 16:34.37 | Stephmw | buz: hence 'hostile' takeover... it's working in the middle east, if a little slowly |
| 16:35.07 | buz | you must have a SNAFU like definition of working |
| 16:36.00 | Stephmw | well... diverting attention from its internal problems, exclusive access to the overtaken nation's resources, puppet government, what am I missing? |
| 16:37.30 | buz | ... costs higher than benefits ... |
| 16:38.58 | Stephmw | I'd say the first option is the most important |
| 16:39.06 | Stephmw | short-term benefit |
| 16:39.10 | buz | possibly |
| 16:39.23 | buz | tho "think of the children" would have been far cheaper approach |
| 16:39.49 | Stephmw | but that's no good - it's gotta be expensive |
| 16:40.00 | Stephmw | how else can you funnel money into the coffers of the arms manufacturers? |
| 16:40.24 | buz | call it war on $something and you get huge amounts of cash |
| 16:40.53 | *** join/#openmoko hackgyver (n=kli@adsl-212-16-102-20.taloyhtioverkot.fi) |
| 16:41.15 | buz | we're way offtopic.... |
| 16:45.02 | *** join/#openmoko mccarthy (n=mccarthy@granular.che.pitt.edu) |
| 16:45.28 | aloril | New peak: 158 nicks |
| 16:45.59 | Stephmw | buz: yesh, my fault |
| 16:46.05 | Stephmw | buz: let's talk gadgets |
| 16:46.15 | buz | oh rgiht |
| 16:46.31 | buz | a shuffle with a silicone skin will no longer fit it |
| 16:46.37 | Stephmw | I'm thinking of getting an epson p-2000 |
| 16:46.37 | buz | so i cant recharge it |
| 16:46.37 | buz | crap |
| 16:47.51 | Stephmw | koen: photobank, personal media player... etc |
| 16:48.03 | Stephmw | koen: 40gb built-in, hackable to 100gb |
| 16:48.11 | buz | aside from the dismal sound quality, the shuffle is perfect |
| 16:49.11 | *** join/#openmoko Vael (n=a@217-42-26.0505.adsl.tele2.no) |
| 16:49.22 | *** join/#openmoko ciastek (n=ciastek@procent.miedzylesie.waw.pl) |
| 16:49.26 | koen | Stephmw: I was going to show you the photobank from FIC, also linuxbase, but it's gone from their website |
| 16:49.45 | Stephmw | koen: shame, do you remember the name? |
| 16:50.05 | koen | nope, sorry |
| 16:50.22 | koen | it was au1200 based, so you can watch movies as well |
| 16:50.33 | Vael | neat |
| 16:50.50 | Stephmw | found the press release for that gadget |
| 16:51.07 | Vael | http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html << that one? :> |
| 16:51.27 | Stephmw | Vael: we've gone offtopic on another gadget ;) |
| 16:51.31 | Vael | :o |
| 16:51.40 | Vael | Teh offtopicz? |
| 16:51.50 | koen | Stephmw: I asked sean if they were going to open up that as well, but haven't heard back |
| 16:52.53 | Stephmw | koen: hmm |
| 16:53.49 | Stephmw | koen: ah, there we are... I rated it lower because of the lack of a CF slot |
| 16:54.11 | *** part/#openmoko thresh_ (n=popa3d@213.219.222.36) |
| 16:54.13 | koen | ah, hadn't noticed that |
| 16:54.50 | kabturek | i thought that ipod shuffle had a great audio quality ... |
| 16:54.51 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=rac0r@p54AA6D38.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:55.28 | quants | "APPLE HAS has got all litigious about a group of Aussies who have developed a so-called iPhone looking interface for their Windows Mobile telephonic apparatus." |
| 16:55.54 | xkr47 | url ?-) |
| 16:56.06 | quants | http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36972 |
| 16:56.06 | Stephmw | koen: and you're right, it's completely gone from their site |
| 16:57.04 | prpplague | koen: heard any chat about a v2 of the moko using the s2c2440 ? |
| 16:57.34 | koen | prpplague: no, but I think they go for 2460 or something |
| 16:57.52 | prpplague | ahh |
| 16:58.07 | koen | something with multimedia gadget I suspect |
| 17:01.03 | xkr47 | quants, hehe |
| 17:01.51 | koen | prpplague: I think v1 is meant to show off the software and v2 (or v3) will be showing off more hardware |
| 17:02.25 | xkr47 | prpplague, here's some comparision of s3c2410 and s3c2460 if you're interested.. http://www.gp32x.com/board/lofiversion/index.php/t32544.html |
| 17:02.38 | hrw|work | and I hope that v2/v3 will be more user/devel friendly |
| 17:02.55 | *** part/#openmoko mccarthy (n=mccarthy@granular.che.pitt.edu) |
| 17:03.00 | xkr47 | prpplague, not suggesting anything whether it will be used (I don't have a clue =) |
| 17:03.35 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh05 (n=amarsh04@CPE-144-131-238-78.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 17:03.58 | koen | hrw|work: v2 software will be completely written in python |
| 17:04.11 | koen | hrw|work: and therefore it will have 1gb of ram |
| 17:04.35 | xkr47 | ?-) |
| 17:04.58 | xkr47 | koen, are you kidding or serious ?-) |
| 17:05.02 | prpplague | xkr47: hehe, yea, i actually have a s3c2460 eval |
| 17:05.14 | xkr47 | prpplague, eval board ? |
| 17:05.31 | hrw|work | prpplague: does gcc/binutils support its VFP already? |
| 17:05.34 | prpplague | xkr47: eval chips, we have protoboards on the way, should be heard next week |
| 17:05.57 | prpplague | hrw|work: not sure, just started looking at the 2440 and 2460 |
| 17:05.58 | koen | hrw|work: isn't every vfp wired up the same? |
| 17:06.03 | xkr47 | prpplague, ok I guess you know the stuff already then :) |
| 17:07.14 | buz | the 2460 seems to be kinda wasted without a good cam |
| 17:07.39 | Sencer | python? nothing less than fortress will do it |
| 17:08.00 | *** part/#openmoko Vael (n=a@217-42-26.0505.adsl.tele2.no) |
| 17:08.02 | prpplague | xkr47: we are probably going with the 2440 though, the 2460 has too high a bga ball count, drives up the costs |
| 17:08.42 | hrw|work | koen: do not know - I have sa1100 and pxa only |
| 17:08.58 | xkr47 | Sencer, :D |
| 17:09.05 | prpplague | xkr47: number of pins on the chip |
| 17:09.12 | xkr47 | right |
| 17:09.34 | xkr47 | bga is some packaging I guess.. |
| 17:09.35 | prpplague | xkr47: the 2460 has 416 and the 2440 just has 289 |
| 17:09.40 | prpplague | xkr47: yea |
| 17:10.09 | koen | hrw|work: gcc only take a -mfpu=vfp option, so it is supported |
| 17:11.19 | prpplague | hrw|work: greetings btw, making some progress on the 88w8385 stuff |
| 17:12.13 | hrw|work | prpplague: cool. I wish I would have time for it.. |
| 17:12.37 | koen | prpplague: don't forget to put it in svn :) |
| 17:12.55 | prpplague | koen: yea, still xperimental at the momment |
| 17:13.10 | prpplague | koen: but yea, as soon as i finish up some testing, i'll get it checked in |
| 17:13.14 | *** join/#openmoko Laibsc1 (n=Laibsch@87.193.69.170) |
| 17:13.23 | prpplague | main problem right now is the question of the firmware |
| 17:17.50 | xkr47 | meyerm, btw in a forum mail, koen said 1973 has 2.0 + EDR so maybe that should be in the wiki also :) |
| 17:20.45 | meyerm | xkr47: OK, cool |
| 17:21.10 | koen | forum? |
| 17:21.13 | meyerm | xkr47: is online (BTW: that's a wiki ;-) ) |
| 17:21.17 | koen | you mean mailinglist |
| 17:21.21 | koen | fora are evil |
| 17:22.14 | parag0n | theres a wiki? |
| 17:22.31 | hrw|work | unofficial only |
| 17:22.36 | xkr47 | koen, yeah sorry |
| 17:22.37 | meyerm | parag0n: xkr47 meant http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/iPhone |
| 17:22.40 | xkr47 | koen, it was your mail :) |
| 17:22.57 | parag0n | any news on this 'big announcement' yet? |
| 17:23.00 | hrw|work | ~summon Sean to make an announcement |
| 17:23.07 | apt | apt takes out 20 clean, identical-looking phones, some extra hands, and pretends to be a telemarketer for a large corporation, so he gets delivered a phonelist containing Sean to make an announcement's coordinates |
| 17:23.07 | koen | xkr47: yes, but not on a forum |
| 17:23.15 | xkr47 | parag0n, we're silently waiting for the topic to magically update ;) |
| 17:23.30 | xkr47 | koen, I apologize for my bad wording :) |
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| 17:24.27 | *** join/#openmoko Laibsch (n=Laibsch@R76f9.r.ppp-pool.de) |
| 17:26.51 | buz | what announcement |
| 17:27.07 | hrw|work | buz: that one which we are waiting for |
| 17:27.18 | buz | i know we are waiting |
| 17:27.21 | buz | just not for what |
| 17:27.29 | buz | but i guess thats the point right |
| 17:28.21 | buz | lets hope ms wont take down sean's plane |
| 17:29.01 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@59.92.75.78) |
| 17:33.26 | *** join/#openmoko WillySilly2 (n=will@c-24-23-145-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
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| 17:39.06 | hrw|work | hi Tom |
| 17:40.22 | *** join/#openmoko lightyear (n=lightyea@p548762B4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:41.14 | noidd | I just saw an email from sean |
| 17:41.19 | *** join/#openmoko r4kY (n=Ladder_@ws42107.studby.hig.no) |
| 17:41.20 | noidd | so he must have landed :-P |
| 17:41.51 | lightyear | hi ho |
| 17:42.06 | lightyear | just one question, what will it cost? |
| 17:42.34 | hrw|work | 350USD |
| 17:42.43 | lightyear | without any wifi? |
| 17:42.59 | lightyear | will there be a version with wifi? |
| 17:43.16 | hrw|work | no |
| 17:43.21 | hrw|work | no wifi in v1 |
| 17:43.26 | lightyear | but later? |
| 17:43.35 | mbuf | how can it be purchased? |
| 17:44.22 | mbuf | what does direct sale mean ? |
| 17:44.54 | sannes | mbuf: probably means "go to vendors website and order directly from there" |
| 17:45.02 | skome | http://www.fic.com.tw/ |
| 17:48.49 | xkr47 | lightyear, that's four questions already :) |
| 17:49.29 | rboehme | anyone know if there's an easy way to just import contacts? I need to get my Palm contct info in, was hoping I could just write a db file and shove it on a SD card |
| 17:50.47 | *** join/#openmoko vargr (n=vargr@dsl092-109-027.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 17:54.06 | hrw|work | cu |
| 17:54.20 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_nokia (n=greentux@tmo-009-244.customers.d1-online.com) |
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| 17:58.51 | buz | rboehme: syncml |
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| 18:14.07 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@195.227.105.180) |
| 18:30.33 | *** join/#openmoko lamby (n=lamby@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk) |
| 18:31.05 | lamby | .who |
| 18:31.10 | lamby | <-- FAIL |
| 18:35.15 | parag0n | lamby, you ever been to any other universities? |
| 18:35.42 | lamby | to study? no. to visit? yes. |
| 18:35.52 | parag0n | nvm then |
| 18:36.10 | parag0n | i once new a lamby at aberystwyth uni |
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| 18:43.17 | greentux | Stephmw: ten times the user of #qtopia now... |
| 18:43.33 | Stephmw | greentux: hehe :) |
| 18:43.59 | Stephmw | greentux: should quieten down a little after a release - wonder how many people in here aren't just idling |
| 18:45.33 | xorAxAx | which release? |
| 18:46.58 | Psi | someone should update the early access in the topic from feb->march |
| 18:47.03 | noidd | man, I remember aber |
| 18:47.14 | noidd | and that fucking hill! |
| 18:47.20 | noidd | unbelievable. |
| 18:47.28 | greentux_nokia | Yes. |
| 18:47.39 | *** join/#openmoko Matt_H (n=chatzill@209.198.66.141) |
| 18:47.46 | noidd | I think it was impossible to ever get back to the dorms drunk since the walk from the bar up to the dorms was so steep you'd have metabolized all the alcohol |
| 18:48.10 | parag0n | noidd, Aber is known for 2 things, its Really large pub / population ratio, and its STUPIDLY LARGE HILLS |
| 18:48.23 | parag0n | haha |
| 18:48.42 | noidd | I spent 4 days in the maze before i have up ;-P |
| 18:48.50 | parag0n | i dont drink, so when everyone else is powering their way up the hill completely wasted, i'm half dead about 1/4 of the way up |
| 18:50.27 | greentux | Stephmw: will see if there come a announcment an #qtopia too. was promised. |
| 18:54.10 | noidd | don't do what a friend of mine did there |
| 18:54.17 | noidd | he spilled his beer in the union |
| 18:54.34 | noidd | then mopped it up using the local Welsh language newspaper |
| 18:54.49 | noidd | they chased him out of the bar, pitchforks and everything |
| 18:55.09 | xorAxAx | Psi: why? |
| 18:55.27 | Psi | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/15/open_phone/ |
| 18:55.37 | Psi | "Sean Moss-Pultz, the project's architect, expects the first samples of OpenMoko hardware to ship in March 2007" |
| 18:57.01 | pike_ | maybe april. or june.. |
| 18:58.25 | parag0n | he never said march 2007, just march! |
| 18:58.27 | *** join/#openmoko Virtuall (n=virtuall@who.is.virtuall.info) |
| 18:58.35 | parag0n | it could be 2021 for all we know ;) |
| 18:58.37 | Psi | hehe |
| 18:58.51 | Fletch | sounds like "duke nukem forever"......when its done ^^ |
| 19:00.10 | ozamosi | I hope this won't turn out to be another Open Graphics Project :( |
| 19:00.50 | morricone | Sean Moss-Pultz, the project's architect, expects the first samples of OpenMoko hardware to ship in March 2007. The SDK should be released at the same time, though you can sign up for early access here. |
| 19:00.57 | morricone | from http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/15/open_phone/ |
| 19:01.01 | morricone | march? |
| 19:01.08 | xorAxAx | yes |
| 19:01.14 | *** join/#openmoko pike__ (i=pike@server1.freeshells.ch) |
| 19:01.49 | ozamosi | They (still, OGP) were promising to release their card july 2005, I think. They're not nearly done. |
| 19:02.41 | Matt_H | well apple wont be delivering a phone until July |
| 19:03.00 | parag0n | but the neo1973 is being built by a real company, who actuelly sell phones, and therefore is much more likely to happen in a sensible timeframe |
| 19:03.21 | lamby | ozamosi: by "their card", do you mean a non-developer one? otherwise they have released a card already. |
| 19:03.42 | Matt_H | A real phone with a real OS |
| 19:03.57 | Matt_H | not some half baked OSX |
| 19:04.32 | ozamosi | lamby: I believe they promised a consumer card in july 2005 |
| 19:05.06 | lamby | ozamosi: schtop, this open-source graphics card izzn't ready yhet |
| 19:06.07 | kabturek | march ? damn im on the channel for 2 days and the phone has been delayed by 2 month ! :) im afraid to stay a day longer :D |
| 19:07.23 | Fletch | pls leave the channel :) |
| 19:07.33 | AciD3572 | rofl |
| 19:08.01 | *** join/#openmoko rlozier (n=rlozier@oh-76-1-21-155.dyn.embarqhsd.net) |
| 19:10.48 | Matt_H | http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/01/joost_is_the_iphone_of_tv.html |
| 19:11.08 | Matt_H | more like the openmoko of TV |
| 19:11.55 | Sencer | from yesterdays log: |
| 19:11.57 | Sencer | 22:35 < Melkman> hmm, just read on a dutch website that the neo will be released in march... http://tweakers.net/nieuws/45921/Eerste-samples-open-Linux-telefoon |
| 19:12.04 | Sencer | -in-maart-verwacht.html |
| 19:12.06 | Sencer | 22:36 < Stephmw> Melkman: they probably got that from TheRegister... and *they* |
| 19:12.11 | Sencer | plucked it from some random arse walking by |
| 19:12.27 | Sencer | -- end quote |
| 19:13.04 | Stephmw | kabturek: the topic is the most accurate information you'll get other than the openmoko website |
| 19:13.05 | *** join/#openmoko Sencer (i=Sencer@gateway/tor/x-f00715ad5a7d6faf) |
| 19:13.15 | Stephmw | kabturek: the topic is the most accurate information you'll get other than the openmoko website |
| 19:13.19 | Stephmw | ^^ repeat for Sencer |
| 19:13.38 | Stephmw | kabturek: (and of course openmoko devs) |
| 19:13.54 | kabturek | Stephmw, okok ;) i was joking :) ive been yesterday and heard what you said :) |
| 19:13.58 | Sencer | did my quote go through? |
| 19:14.01 | Stephmw | yup |
| 19:14.08 | Stephmw | kabturek: no worries :) |
| 19:14.15 | Sencer | I actually quoted your response from yesterday as well, Stephmw |
| 19:14.34 | Stephmw | saw the -- end quote |
| 19:14.59 | Sencer | ah, ok, irssi is acting up here |
| 19:17.36 | *** join/#openmoko prpplague^2 (n=dave@12.190.41.146) |
| 19:17.37 | *** join/#openmoko lkcl_ (n=lkcl@5ac68165.bb.sky.com) |
| 19:25.43 | kabturek | im wondering how much power an usb wifi stick draws... |
| 19:26.16 | Psi | 1.21 jigawatts |
| 19:26.24 | Psi | oh, wait, na, thats something else :P |
| 19:26.30 | greentux_nokia | 400mA is possible |
| 19:27.05 | Stephmw | 500mA is the max, no? |
| 19:27.07 | prpplague | kabturek: ones without an ldo usually draw up to around 400mA |
| 19:27.39 | prpplague | Stephmw: 500mA is the max rating for usb slave device powered, iirc |
| 19:27.44 | rboehme | anyone know how big the 1973's screen is compared to a Treo (600) ? |
| 19:27.53 | koen | Stephmw: correct |
| 19:28.03 | prpplague | kabturek: if you get one with an ldo you usually see between 150mA and 275mA |
| 19:28.14 | Psi | not that the max matters, since the neo cant power any usb devices |
| 19:28.18 | prpplague | most of the RT73 dongles uses an ldo |
| 19:28.30 | Stephmw | Psi: ... for long |
| 19:28.39 | buz | not at all |
| 19:28.43 | Stephmw | hack the case, get some cables.. |
| 19:28.53 | Psi | hehe |
| 19:28.54 | buz | its no longer THE neo then |
| 19:28.59 | prpplague | doesn't mean you couldn't inject the power |
| 19:29.01 | Psi | id imagine that will kill the battery life |
| 19:29.03 | kabturek | prpplague, thx... you know what im thinkin g ? a little powered wifi addon ;) |
| 19:29.11 | prpplague | kabturek: yea |
| 19:29.27 | Stephmw | Psi: of course :) |
| 19:29.28 | prpplague | you could do it as a sleeve |
| 19:29.40 | buz | where is the usb port located anyway |
| 19:29.57 | prpplague | kabturek: if you are brave, you could even remove the 5v->3.3v regulator and just provide 3.3v |
| 19:30.28 | prpplague | kabturek: that would cut the power consumtion dramatically |
| 19:31.22 | Psi | true |
| 19:32.24 | kabturek | prpplague, good idea ... |
| 19:32.47 | kabturek | i just cant wait for it to get my hands on and start messing with it ;) |
| 19:33.29 | prpplague | remove the actual usb connector from the device, remove the regulator, then add the connection to the handheld, without the 5v connection, take 3 AA high mAh batteries and a small ldo, you are good to go |
| 19:33.32 | koen | any announcenment yet? |
| 19:33.47 | so_solid_moo | koen: no V12 :( |
| 19:34.56 | koen | only with tiptronic |
| 19:36.57 | xkr47 | prpplague, how does it eat less current with a ldo ? |
| 19:37.20 | xkr47 | prpplague, or is the current dependent on supply voltage ? |
| 19:37.42 | xkr47 | prpplague, one would think the sending effect would vary accordingly then also |
| 19:38.09 | prpplague | xkr47: taking 5v and regulating it down to 3.3v, that 1.7v's has to go somewhere |
| 19:38.15 | prpplague | xkr47: usually wasted |
| 19:38.22 | xkr47 | yes.. but |
| 19:38.24 | prpplague | xkr47: i.e. as heat |
| 19:38.44 | xkr47 | I understood the wlan was the discussion.. and that wlans with a ldo draw less current (??) |
| 19:39.02 | xkr47 | maybe I got it wrong :P |
| 19:39.07 | prpplague | xkr47: ldo's are more efficient in the conversion process |
| 19:39.21 | xkr47 | ah.. right |
| 19:39.34 | xkr47 | so you mean the wlans typically take something like ~3V |
| 19:39.52 | xkr47 | and non-ldo solutions use more power ? |
| 19:40.01 | prpplague | xkr47: usb output is 5v, just about every wireless chip available currently runs at 3.3v |
| 19:40.23 | xkr47 | so.. does the moko use 5V internally or do you know ? |
| 19:40.49 | prpplague | xkr47: the core for the s3c2410 uses both 1.8v and 3.3v |
| 19:41.03 | xkr47 | and the battery.. ? |
| 19:41.39 | prpplague | xkr47: so the battery is probably something like either a 3.7v or 5.2v |
| 19:42.24 | xkr47 | well.. I guess if one wanted wlan through something external and wouldn't mind some soldering, it would make sense to supply ~3V from some batteries and remove the ldo altogether |
| 19:42.32 | *** part/#openmoko vargr (n=vargr@dsl092-109-027.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 19:42.49 | *** join/#openmoko vargr (n=vargr@dsl092-109-027.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 19:42.52 | prpplague | xkr47: has to be regulated, you can't just jack some batteries in |
| 19:42.54 | cbpage | buffering? |
| 19:43.04 | cbpage | yeah - regulators and stuff - buffering for the 5v usb |
| 19:43.21 | cbpage | also i think pretty much everything uses 3.3v signaling anyhow - someone check :) |
| 19:43.22 | xkr47 | prpplague, oh so they are sensitive to it being stable and close to 3.3 |
| 19:43.25 | Psi | dont forget that li-po batterys have electronics inside to monitor usage, you cant just draw power from the +- pins |
| 19:43.37 | prpplague | xkr47: hehe yea |
| 19:43.56 | *** join/#openmoko PirateHead (n=piratehe@AC94A60C.ipt.aol.com) |
| 19:44.00 | xkr47 | psi :) |
| 19:44.01 | prpplague | xkr47: can't vary more than around +-3% |
| 19:44.16 | xkr47 | ok.. kindof like computer equipment in general then |
| 19:44.33 | prpplague | xkr47: thats why i said, probably better to make a sled with 3 AA batteries |
| 19:44.40 | xkr47 | cmos takes 3-15V, it doesn't mind that much :) |
| 19:44.42 | *** join/#openmoko [g2] (n=g2@nslu2-linux/g2) |
| 19:44.49 | xkr47 | prpplague, mm |
| 19:44.59 | xkr47 | PirateHead, or march, who knows :P |
| 19:45.04 | PirateHead | Though who knows, it might end up being march |
| 19:45.06 | PirateHead | Beat me to it =D |
| 19:45.34 | Psi | not that you would really want to, but you probably could rip all the electronics/screen etc.. out of the neo and mount it all in the shell of a much larger phone |
| 19:45.48 | xkr47 | prpplague, or then two 7660 and one AA :) |
| 19:46.23 | prpplague | xkr47: well, mosts digital cirtuits these days are either 1.8 or 3.3 based, 5v based is going the way of the dodo |
| 19:46.39 | xkr47 | mm |
| 19:46.50 | prpplague | Psi: hehe, actually thats what i'd like to do |
| 19:47.03 | prpplague | Psi: i have a IP rated case i'd love to test it in |
| 19:47.04 | Psi | it would be great for adding things |
| 19:47.04 | PirateHead | What's wrong with the Neo's size? |
| 19:47.11 | xkr47 | Psi, :D |
| 19:47.16 | Psi | but you would no longer have what looked like a neo |
| 19:47.29 | PirateHead | I mean, what do you want to put in there that wouldn't fit. |
| 19:47.39 | xkr47 | Psi, maybe you can leave the front part and build something yourself :) |
| 19:47.41 | PirateHead | Should have been a ? |
| 19:47.59 | xkr47 | PirateHead, like a wlan thing :) |
| 19:48.10 | prpplague | PirateHead: barcode scanner, rfid reader |
| 19:48.19 | xkr47 | when will they start selling separate camera modules.. |
| 19:48.25 | Psi | plastic explosives, for self destuct :P |
| 19:48.30 | xkr47 | Psi, :D |
| 19:48.37 | PirateHead | Heh, you guys are nuts. I wouldn't cut up the phone, I'd just use a serial connection. |
| 19:48.59 | PirateHead | Or hell, a bluetooth connection... but that could get expensive. |
| 19:49.07 | xkr47 | PirateHead, we're all nuts buddy, it's just a matter of how nuts you are.. |
| 19:49.11 | xkr47 | :) |
| 19:49.20 | prpplague | PirateHead: not really talking about "cutting" |
| 19:49.34 | Psi | PirateHead, with a bigger case you could probably wire up a camera to the micro :) |
| 19:49.41 | xkr47 | PirateHead, I'll probably get a bluetooth keyboard if there is such a thing |
| 19:49.48 | PirateHead | phones with cameras suck |
| 19:49.54 | xkr47 | or then a bluetooth in the pc and use that keyboard |
| 19:49.58 | xkr47 | PirateHead, :) |
| 19:49.59 | PirateHead | extra weight, less space for nicer dongles |
| 19:50.03 | prpplague | Psi: the s3c2410 doesn't have a camera interface |
| 19:50.05 | PirateHead | I'm glad to buy a phone without one |
| 19:50.29 | xkr47 | me too |
| 19:50.34 | PirateHead | xkr47: a bluetooth keyboard why? I've heard about other people doing the same, but I don't understand the desire. |
| 19:50.55 | PirateHead | kxr47: if I have a mobile device, I don't see why I would want to bring a much-less-mobile keyboard around with me |
| 19:51.05 | xkr47 | dunno, maybe I got the sick idea of ircing with it somewhere outdoors :D |
| 19:51.37 | thedaniel | there's always this thing: http://freedominput.com/mainsite/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=30 |
| 19:51.44 | PirateHead | so, it basically turns into a tiny little monitor |
| 19:51.50 | xkr47 | maybe I'm just a little bit hesitant whether my big fingers will be usable for typing on the moko |
| 19:51.50 | Psi | laser kbd mod!, hehe |
| 19:51.51 | PirateHead | where you can see like 3 lines of text at a time |
| 19:51.52 | thedaniel | simple, cheap, HID |
| 19:52.29 | thedaniel | 60 pounds is about 90 euros i think |
| 19:52.41 | xkr47 | thedaniel, nice |
| 19:52.49 | prpplague | koen: did i show you the M5900 when you were down? |
| 19:53.10 | PirateHead | thedaniel, I still don't see why you want to turn a phone into basically a crippled laptop |
| 19:53.10 | Psi | thedaniel, hehe, thats pretty nice |
| 19:53.28 | spikebik1 | I've used a bt keyboard with a nokia 770 occasionally, it's quite nice, and much more portable than a laptop |
| 19:53.40 | spikebik1 | not that I usually carry the keyboard |
| 19:54.12 | xkr47 | :) |
| 19:54.16 | spikebik1 | heh |
| 19:54.36 | spikebik1 | If a GPS + bt widget can cost $70 |
| 19:55.07 | leventhal | i'd like a thumbboard i think |
| 19:55.08 | spikebik1 | I wonder how much a wifi + BT widget would cost and how big it would be |
| 19:55.08 | PirateHead | superbik1: obviously, the nokia is pretty portable. Is it still highly portable when you have the keyboard with you? |
| 19:55.08 | *** join/#openmoko JoshTriplett (n=josh@unaffiliated/joshtriplett) |
| 19:55.08 | xkr47 | leventhal, ? |
| 19:55.10 | spikebik1 | it about doubles the side... both easily fit in my smallish fanny pack |
| 19:55.17 | spikebik1 | but too big for any normal shirt/pants pocket |
| 19:55.24 | spikebik1 | the n770 is 200 grams or so |
| 19:55.37 | PirateHead | For me, there's three levels of portability. |
| 19:55.48 | leventhal | just cause i can type faster on a blackberry sized thumbboard with distinct buttons rather than a flat surface |
| 19:55.59 | PirateHead | The worst is where I have to load all my computer equipment into the back of my car to move it. That's where desktops fit in. |
| 19:56.14 | Psi | PirateHead, your forgetting underskin implant :P |
| 19:56.30 | PirateHead | Better is where I can fit it all in my backpack. My laptop fits there. |
| 19:56.53 | PirateHead | What I'm looking for with the neo is something that fits in the pocket of my cargo pants. |
| 19:57.12 | leventhal | the on screen is nice but if i know i'm going to do a lot of typing (like using ssh) i'd probably bring a thumbboard or foldable keyboard |
| 19:57.23 | PirateHead | If it doesn't, and I still need to carry a bag of some sort (a la a USB/bluetooth keyboard), then it doesn't fit into that third level of portability. |
| 19:57.33 | prpplague | PirateHead: i have a toshiba libretto that i gutted and shoved a s3c2410 module in, works out well |
| 19:57.38 | spikebik1 | if the neo fits in one pocket a full bt keyboard would likely fit in the other lake |
| 19:57.59 | hrw | prpplague: so you have s3c2410 powered laptop now? |
| 19:58.02 | JoshTriplett | Hi. I noticed in several of the announcements that the one piece of proprietary software on the OpenMoko consists of a userspace "software GPS" implementation. I wanted to offer a suggestion as to how that could go away and get replaced with Free Software: GPL-GPS, <http://gps.psas.pdx.edu/>. |
| 19:58.06 | prpplague | hrw: several |
| 19:58.21 | prpplague | hrw: lots of spare protoboards left over, so i have fun with them |
| 19:58.21 | spikebik1 | josh sounds good |
| 19:58.32 | hrw | prpplague: :) |
| 19:58.36 | JoshTriplett | GPL-GPS supplies a software GPS correlator, designed to run as the firmware of a consumer GPS device. A friend of mine did it as his Master's thesis project. |
| 19:58.42 | hrw | prpplague: did you saw xbox360 laptop? |
| 19:58.47 | PirateHead | JoshTriplett, there's been lots of discussion about that. I'm sure people will be looking into it. |
| 19:58.53 | cjb | JoshTriplett: Do you know that your project is compatible with the GPS chip we have? |
| 19:58.57 | spikebik1 | josh but that is specific to the Zarlink GP4020 GPS |
| 19:58.57 | hrw | JoshTriplett: there are few gpsd implementations already |
| 19:59.04 | prpplague | hrw: hehe, no not seen that one |
| 19:59.22 | PirateHead | JoshTripplet, isn't that pretty specific software? What we need to replace is a driver here, not firmware. |
| 19:59.30 | JoshTriplett | spikebik1: Not much of it. It just needs a bit of porting to run on a new chip. |
| 19:59.31 | hrw | prpplague: done by guy which made atari 2600 portable and many other consoles, computers |
| 19:59.49 | prpplague | hrw: ahh yea, he does good work |
| 20:00.03 | prpplague | hrw: http://tinyurl.com/yl85t4 my current "upgrade" project |
| 20:00.08 | JoshTriplett | PirateHead: "discussion about that": does "that" mean "the binary GPS" or "GPL-GPS"? |
| 20:00.13 | JoshTriplett | PirateHead: I assume the former? |
| 20:00.19 | PirateHead | The former. |
| 20:00.36 | spikebik1 | hey |
| 20:00.46 | spikebik1 | any update on what the openmoko hacker lunchbox is? |
| 20:00.57 | JoshTriplett | cjb: I don't know, but as I understand it, GPL-GPS uses a good portable design where you can just port the hardware-specific portions and use all the rest unchanged. |
| 20:01.00 | thedaniel | prpplague: i'm interested in your s3c laptop - do you have a writeup online anywhere? |
| 20:01.08 | JoshTriplett | hrw: What exactly do you mean by "gpsd"? |
| 20:01.13 | hrw | prpplague: kind of those 'education laptops' for kids? with <qvga shitty screen? |
| 20:01.18 | hrw | JoshTriplett: gps daemon |
| 20:01.27 | prpplague | thedaniel: no, mainly because its using s3c2410 modules that aren't available to the public yet |
| 20:01.41 | JoshTriplett | hrw: I mean, what function do you mean? Real GPS correlation, or just "grab a bitstream off of a driver and make it available"? |
| 20:01.59 | prpplague | hrw: yea 320x240 4096 color |
| 20:02.25 | spikebik1 | The openmoko uses a "software" gps where some of the actual crunching happens in a daemon. |
| 20:02.32 | PirateHead | JoshTriplett: there's some of both of those. The important first step is getting a reliable bitstream. |
| 20:02.33 | prpplague | thedaniel: easy enough to do with the right module though |
| 20:02.35 | hrw | JoshTriplett: basically it fetch info from gps unit and supply to apps via TCP port - allow to hide connection details |
| 20:02.38 | spikebik1 | not just decoding bits and writing NMEA |
| 20:02.42 | JoshTriplett | PirateHead: Regarding "What we need to replace is a driver here, not firmware.", I read the statement that OpenMoko used a software GPS implementation that processed the GPS signals, and thus you need to do correlation and such in software. |
| 20:03.00 | prpplague | hrw: that one is one of the first ones available with a color lcd |
| 20:03.01 | JoshTriplett | PirateHead: GPL-GPS supplies correlation algorithms, satellite tracking, and all the various features like that. |
| 20:03.17 | hrw | prpplague: people really buy such stuff? |
| 20:03.19 | prpplague | hrw: most of the others are just 4-bit greyscale |
| 20:03.22 | PirateHead | JoshTripplet: I can't speak for anybody else, but if it's under the GPL, I'll sure be looking into it. =D |
| 20:03.46 | JoshTriplett | PirateHead: You mean a bitstream off the device, giving you the raw data to correlate? |
| 20:03.48 | prpplague | hrw: are you kidding? they sell like hot cakes |
| 20:03.54 | thedaniel | prpplague: that's pretty cool. that sort of hack has been in the back of my mind for a while, but i've not had the initiative to research how to do it (not a big hardware hacker) |
| 20:04.19 | JoshTriplett | hrw: Ah. I don't think openmoko needs that part, it already exists. I mean the driver below that. |
| 20:04.29 | JoshTriplett | hrw: "that part" == gpsd. |
| 20:04.30 | hrw | prpplague: I'm probably too much geek to find such thing useful ;D |
| 20:04.47 | JoshTriplett | spikebik1: Right. I assumed so, I just wanted to make sure. And NMEA considered painful, anyway. :) |
| 20:04.55 | prpplague | hrw: yea, well after all, its for kids, i just buy them for the case and misc electronics |
| 20:05.08 | JoshTriplett | PirateHead: Glad to hear that you find it interesting. :) |
| 20:06.14 | hrw | prpplague: maybe in few years when I will have kids I will buy one and tell 'listen child: this laptop is for you and it was made by my friend so be nice and do some weird testing on it while having good fun' ;D |
| 20:06.21 | JoshTriplett | PirateHead: I work with the person who wrote it. I'll /msg you their email address; perhaps you can give them some info on the specific GPS chip and what needs doing in software. |
| 20:06.44 | xkr47 | what's the type of the unpowered usb connector? mini-usb a or b ? |
| 20:07.55 | hrw | JoshTriplett: the problem is that there are TWO persons which know internal details |
| 20:08.04 | xkr47 | from what I heard, this is a nice bt keyboard.. http://www.thinkoutside.com/products/xtbtue/stowawaybt_product.html |
| 20:08.07 | hrw | JoshTriplett: and both are not available now |
| 20:08.35 | so_solid_moo | the gps chip is known afaik |
| 20:09.04 | spikebik1 | xkr yeah I have that one |
| 20:09.06 | spikebik1 | not bad |
| 20:09.11 | spikebik1 | doesn't lay flat |
| 20:09.17 | spikebik1 | and wobbles as you type |
| 20:09.28 | xkr47 | ? |
| 20:09.35 | koen | prpplague: I think you showed the m5900 |
| 20:09.39 | xkr47 | wobbles = ? |
| 20:09.45 | JoshTriplett | hrw: Ah. "not available" as in "not right this instant", or "not for the forseeable future"? |
| 20:09.47 | spikebik1 | you kind of have to hold it in place as you type |
| 20:09.52 | xkr47 | :P |
| 20:09.59 | hrw | JoshTriplett: not now |
| 20:10.01 | xkr47 | that sounds like it isn't such a good thing |
| 20:10.06 | xkr47 | yet you say "not bad" :P |
| 20:10.11 | spikebik1 | the right and left edge are 1/2 a cm off and if the weight of your hands isn't balance it tips in that direction |
| 20:10.14 | hrw | prpplague: what hardware usually is inside? |
| 20:10.20 | spikebik1 | it's okay to type on but you have to be careful |
| 20:10.51 | xkr47 | ok |
| 20:10.53 | spikebik1 | or maybe lay it on a big napkin or cloth |
| 20:11.10 | spikebik1 | it's not sturdy enough for using in your lap |
| 20:11.16 | spikebik1 | but it does fold up pretty damn small. |
| 20:11.22 | xkr47 | mm |
| 20:11.32 | spikebik1 | and batteries last a long time |
| 20:11.40 | spikebik1 | and it associates and wakes up easily |
| 20:11.43 | xkr47 | a bit expensive too :) |
| 20:12.09 | xkr47 | if I'd get two mokos instead, it would only cost 200 more and I could use the other moko as a keyboard *giggle* |
| 20:12.26 | xkr47 | ok that wasn't very funny |
| 20:12.27 | xkr47 | sorry all |
| 20:12.41 | JoshTriplett | hrw: Which two people, if you don't mind my asking? |
| 20:13.30 | koen | prpplague: yep, you showed the m5900 |
| 20:14.01 | hrw | JoshTriplett: mickeyl and LaF0rge |
| 20:16.06 | JoshTriplett | hrw: Ah. |
| 20:16.22 | koen | hmm |
| 20:16.22 | koen | sean is back in .tw, but no announcenment |
| 20:16.36 | JoshTriplett | hrw: Should I email them with the info? |
| 20:17.23 | koen | JoshTriplett: is it like http://www.gpstk.org/ ? |
| 20:17.48 | JoshTriplett | koen: Looking. |
| 20:18.10 | PirateHead | JoshTripplet: I think you should wait until the release. I get the feeling they aren't interested in new software right now. =D |
| 20:18.53 | hrw | JoshTriplett: mail openmoko-community ML rather then devs |
| 20:19.00 | JoshTriplett | koen: Vaguely, in that it includes algorithms for some of the same things. |
| 20:20.05 | koen | JoshTriplett: JoshTriplett as in xcb god JoshTriplett ? |
| 20:20.06 | JoshTriplett | koen: You just made my day. :) |
| 20:20.06 | koen | :) |
| 20:20.06 | hrw | JoshTriplett: devs are working on getting it all working so they will not replace parts of base system |
| 20:20.08 | hrw | koen: tried libxcb instead of libx11? |
| 20:20.11 | koen | not before the release |
| 20:20.31 | JoshTriplett | koen: the OpenMoko release? |
| 20:20.37 | JoshTriplett | hrw: Of course. Just proposing it as an alternative to the binary driver for the future. |
| 20:20.42 | koen | hrw: not yet, although xcb should be in libx11 the next release (iirc) |
| 20:21.01 | JoshTriplett | koen: libx11 with Xlib/XCB got released some time ago, actually, along with XCB 1.0. |
| 20:21.24 | JoshTriplett | koen: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2006-November/019954.html |
| 20:21.26 | koen | hrw: I don't know of a toolkit that makes use of xcb, so trying it is a bit moot right now |
| 20:21.41 | hrw | have to go - bye |
| 20:22.36 | koen | JoshTriplett: 1.1 didn't crosscompile for me, so I'm still stuck at 1.0.1 |
| 20:23.12 | JoshTriplett | koen: If you want to take this to #xcb or #xorg-devel, I could help you with that. |
| 20:23.30 | prpplague | hrw|gone: hey, sorry i missed you, untill lately its all been z80 or 8051 stuff, now they've moved to arm7 stuff |
| 20:23.46 | koen | JoshTriplett: you're one of the first that doesn't run away screaming when I say 'crosscompile' :) |
| 20:24.04 | JoshTriplett | koen: I use them regularly. :) |
| 20:24.17 | prpplague | thedaniel: alot of my hacks are posted at http://www.elinux.org/wiki/ |
| 20:24.17 | JoshTriplett | koen: Though I haven't tried cross-compiling Xlib. |
| 20:25.11 | JoshTriplett | koen: But I cross-compile from x86 to ppc for our embedded flight computer system. |
| 20:25.41 | koen | I crosscompile for arm, x86 and ppc :) |
| 20:26.06 | JoshTriplett | koen: x86? From what host? :) |
| 20:26.12 | koen | JoshTriplett: x86 |
| 20:26.28 | JoshTriplett | koen: Different OS? |
| 20:26.37 | koen | sort of |
| 20:26.44 | koen | it's all in the same buildsystem |
| 20:27.12 | koen | and telling gcc and friends to crosscompile prevents contamination |
| 20:27.20 | JoshTriplett | Interesting. |
| 20:28.27 | koen | you don't want to know how much software just hardcodes -I/usr/include in their makefiles |
| 20:29.01 | JoshTriplett | koen: Well, I know we don't do *that*. But as you might expect, I wouldn't find it incredibly surprising if Xlib does something braindead. :) |
| 20:29.38 | koen | it could be caused by one of the patches, or bitrot in the diet-x11 configure options |
| 20:29.45 | koen | will look at it later :) |
| 20:30.14 | JoshTriplett | koen: OK. If you need help, feel free to mail xcb@lists.freedesktop.org, and/or me. |
| 20:30.52 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 20:31.53 | koen | JoshTriplett: --disable-udc --enable-xcms --disable-xlocale --disable-xkb and replacing lots of stuff with stubs |
| 20:32.17 | koen | gets it down to a few 100k |
| 20:32.46 | koen | about ~180kB |
| 20:34.07 | JoshTriplett | I need to check, now that we've split most of the protocol layer out of libxcb, whether libx11 with Xlib/XCB + libxcb takes up more or less space than libx11 without Xlib/XCB. |
| 20:35.00 | JoshTriplett | koen: And "replacing lots of stuff with stubs" certainly sound suspicious as far as compiling Xlib/XCB goes; perhaps a bad interaction. |
| 20:35.10 | koen | XIM stuff |
| 20:35.35 | JoshTriplett | koen: Ah, OK. Now where did I leave that ten-foot pole... |
| 20:37.17 | koen | the patches should be in http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages/xorg-lib/libx11 |
| 20:37.38 | koen | my ISP is in web 0.2 mode right now, so I can't check |
| 20:37.46 | JoshTriplett | I just see one small autofoo patch there. |
| 20:37.56 | JoshTriplett | And it doesn't look problematic. |
| 20:38.11 | koen | and http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages/xorg-lib/diet-x11 ? |
| 20:38.19 | JoshTriplett | Ah, yeah, just found that too. |
| 20:39.16 | JoshTriplett | koen: What issue does http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/xorg-lib/diet-x11/xchar2b.patch address? On what platforms does struct {char c1; char c2;} not take up 16 bits? |
| 20:39.25 | koen | arm |
| 20:39.34 | JoshTriplett | koen: What happens there? |
| 20:39.47 | koen | unaligned access -> broken chars |
| 20:40.15 | koen | see http://www.koka-in.org/~kensyu/zaurus/diary/20030618.html |
| 20:40.23 | JoshTriplett | koen: chars have alignment requirements? |
| 20:40.24 | koen | although that is solved with the new EABI on arm |
| 20:40.26 | JoshTriplett | Looking. |
| 20:40.29 | JoshTriplett | Ah, good. |
| 20:40.46 | koen | which the neo doesn't (yet) use |
| 20:40.50 | JoshTriplett | koen: Uh, I can't read that... |
| 20:41.09 | JoshTriplett | koen: It looks kinda mangled. |
| 20:41.09 | koen | JoshTriplett: babelfish :) |
| 20:41.27 | JoshTriplett | koen: What character set is that in? |
| 20:41.43 | koen | iso-1022-jp I suspect |
| 20:41.59 | JoshTriplett | koen: Ah. |
| 20:41.59 | koen | the one that doesn't display in emacs without the patch :) |
| 20:42.11 | JoshTriplett | koen: It doesn't display in Firefox for me either. |
| 20:42.33 | JoshTriplett | koen: Just looks like a pile of random characters, and lots of $ in particular. |
| 20:42.47 | koen | yep |
| 20:42.53 | JoshTriplett | I <3 UTF-8. :) |
| 20:42.56 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@unaffiliated/ninher) |
| 20:43.19 | JoshTriplett | koen: Oh, it looks like your server reports it as ISO-8859-1. |
| 20:43.33 | koen | my server? |
| 20:43.59 | JoshTriplett | Er, s/your/that/ |
| 20:45.49 | JoshTriplett | koen: None of the diet-x11 patches look problematic for Xlib/XCB. |
| 20:50.08 | *** join/#openmoko Buffet (n=lector@nat19.yauza.ru) |
| 20:52.19 | *** part/#openmoko vargr (n=vargr@dsl092-109-027.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:53.08 | *** join/#openmoko vargr (n=vargr@dsl092-109-027.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:57.01 | *** join/#openmoko atari_ (n=atari@hep-cat.de) |
| 21:03.29 | JoshTriplett | koen: Several of those patches look perfectly reasonable to integrate, actually. |
| 21:07.01 | *** join/#openmoko Sencer (i=Sencer@gateway/tor/x-1809844ed516b6ef) |
| 21:11.30 | *** join/#openmoko bmidgley_ (n=bmidgley@IP-155-101-217-122.media.utah.edu) |
| 21:26.09 | greentux | i assume the announcement arrives, if the user couter will fall under 150... |
| 21:26.35 | vargr | ok, I'll do my part |
| 21:26.39 | *** part/#openmoko vargr (n=vargr@dsl092-109-027.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 21:26.50 | atari_ | which announcement are you thinking 'bout? |
| 21:26.55 | greentux | 4 left :) |
| 21:26.57 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 21:27.38 | ozamosi | greentux: I think it needs to be above 200 :) |
| 21:28.07 | greentux | atari_: some news about the cannel is will be published today |
| 21:28.26 | greentux | ozamosi: that should not be the problem |
| 21:28.36 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 21:32.08 | parag0n | so_solid_moo, any news on this announcement yet? |
| 21:32.47 | *** join/#openmoko lonnb (n=lonnb@i-83-67-202-74.freedom2surf.net) |
| 21:33.38 | kabturek | hey but mickey told that he wasnt the one one who would make an annoucement - he only knew that something is going to be announced |
| 21:33.59 | greentux | hey parag0n come and ask isnt fine. We are all "waiting" for hours... :) |
| 21:34.16 | parag0n | i was idling until my power died! |
| 21:35.40 | greentux | thats ok ... |
| 21:36.13 | *** part/#openmoko flickerfly (n=jritchie@rebekah.bible.edu) |
| 21:40.19 | buz | "neo was just a hoax. thank you for playing" |
| 21:40.57 | parag0n | hah |
| 21:41.28 | ozamosi | buz: no, this announcement is for pre-orders. Next announcement is that it is a hoax ;) |
| 21:43.57 | koen | the roadmap for 2007 should be in the announcement |
| 21:44.06 | buz | oooooh |
| 21:44.07 | buz | yes |
| 21:44.13 | buz | THATs good news |
| 21:44.23 | buz | (helps planning gadget spending ;) |
| 21:44.37 | parag0n | crap, i need to start ebaying random parts of my room |
| 21:45.08 | buz | thats just too much trouble |
| 21:51.49 | PirateHead | Have we been told what "hacker's lunchbox" means yet? |
| 21:53.09 | xorAxAx | there will be an announcement today UTC? |
| 21:53.09 | prpplague | PirateHead: redbull and altoids |
| 21:53.52 | PirateHead | prpplague: only switched to redbull recently. I miss Surge. :-( |
| 21:54.27 | JoshTriplett | Hmmm, I just realized that OpenMoko uses AGPS. |
| 21:55.19 | JoshTriplett | That will require a fair bit of additional work past a standard GPS implementation, though the existing GPS implementations will still help. |
| 21:56.24 | PirateHead | JoshTriplett: I heard discussion earlier that AGPS can be disabled, falling back to normal GPS operation. |
| 21:56.39 | PirateHead | JoshTriplett: I don't know whether that's totally accurate, but a number of people seemed fairly convinced. |
| 21:57.08 | so_solid_moo | on the mailing list, it was said that couldn't happen |
| 21:57.22 | JoshTriplett | PirateHead: Even if you could do that, you wouldn't really want to. :) |
| 21:57.32 | JoshTriplett | PirateHead: Though it would help for a starting place. |
| 21:57.46 | prpplague | PirateHead: hehe |
| 21:58.03 | so_solid_moo | you can apparently turn off AGPS, but you still need the gpsd to get location info |
| 21:58.04 | PirateHead | I don't know the difference in the first place. |
| 21:58.19 | PirateHead | What does the A stand for? |
| 21:58.22 | JoshTriplett | PirateHead: Assisted. |
| 21:58.29 | JoshTriplett | PirateHead: In this case, by cell towers. |
| 21:58.37 | PirateHead | Ah. |
| 21:58.49 | JoshTriplett | so_solid_moo: Until it gets replaced. |
| 21:59.01 | so_solid_moo | JoshTriplett: I'm just stating 'as shipped', as it were |
| 21:59.10 | so_solid_moo | there was confusion about what the non-free daemon was needed for |
| 21:59.13 | JoshTriplett | so_solid_moo: Whereas I just care about the hardware capabilities. |
| 21:59.26 | PirateHead | so_solid_moo: I don't think anybody buying a Neo1973 is going to use it as it's shipped. =D |
| 21:59.44 | so_solid_moo | that's besides the point. |
| 21:59.53 | PirateHead | No, you're right. |
| 22:00.11 | PirateHead | done partying? |
| 22:00.16 | *** topic/#openmoko by mickeyl -> OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.com | http://lists.openmoko.org | Neo1973 ETA for early access: February 2007 | Wifi: No, Multitouch: No, Bluetooth: Yes | Direct-Sale World Wide | No Preorders yet | 2007-ROADMAP Announcement on Friday |
| 22:00.23 | mickeyl | sorry :/ |
| 22:00.32 | JoshTriplett | so_solid_moo: I spoke with the author of GPL-GPS, and he said that getting the bitstream would prove the only major difficulty here. |
| 22:00.35 | ozamosi | *sight* |
| 22:00.50 | so_solid_moo | JoshTriplett: I'm sure that's true; that's not the point I was answering though. |
| 22:01.07 | greentux | oh oh oh |
| 22:07.13 | koen | gah |
| 22:07.18 | koen | just as I'm away |
| 22:07.25 | koen | ~lart fridays |
| 22:08.15 | greentux | koen: you did not avoid that |
| 22:09.19 | spikebik1 | oh btw, a in agps = assisted |
| 22:09.38 | spikebik1 | basically info is downloaded via cellular to enable quicker fixes on the client side |
| 22:09.43 | spikebik1 | IMO not a big deal |
| 22:10.12 | greentux | yes |
| 22:10.44 | skome | just depends on the application. For war-driving cell strength, routing ambulances/service people, it can be a big help. |
| 22:10.47 | spikebik1 | especially since locks from cold start have gone down from 10 minutes to 40 seconds or so |
| 22:10.59 | spikebik1 | skome not really, once you get the data your good |
| 22:11.20 | spikebik1 | it doesn't improve performance, it saves you 40 seconds once, and thats it |
| 22:11.37 | skome | my point is, where time and accuracy are needed, it helps. |
| 22:11.39 | spikebik1 | especially since I suspect cellular providers will charge for it |
| 22:11.46 | spikebik1 | it doesn't improve accuracy |
| 22:11.49 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-171-205.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:12.22 | spikebik1 | and that 40 seconds is only if you turn the device off |
| 22:12.24 | skome | It can improve accuracy if you have lousy coverage and a good post-processing algorithm on a fast machine somewhere else. |
| 22:12.51 | spikebik1 | i believe thats mostly marketing |
| 22:13.06 | spikebik1 | even cheap $70 bt gps have great processing built in |
| 22:13.09 | JoshTriplett | DGPS improves accuracy. AGPS primarily improves locking. |
| 22:13.09 | skome | Maybe, but I'm speaking from my own experience |
| 22:13.10 | greentux | spikebik1: the advantage is not the startup time... |
| 22:13.20 | spikebik1 | and in the openmoko has plenty of cpu on board |
| 22:13.32 | spikebik1 | greentux what is it then? |
| 22:14.27 | greentux | you can work with weaker signals... inhouse |
| 22:15.29 | spikebik1 | why? |
| 22:15.34 | spikebik1 | my GPS works in my house |
| 22:15.45 | spikebik1 | usually get 7-8 sats |
| 22:15.52 | spikebik1 | you still have to receive the signals at the GPS |
| 22:16.27 | greentux | with agps you need only to recieve the stron timing signals, not the weak data channels. |
| 22:16.35 | greentux | these data comes via gsm/gprs |
| 22:17.19 | spikebik1 | right |
| 22:17.28 | spikebik1 | but the weak data channels are only needed very occasionally |
| 22:18.15 | spikebik1 | mainly the ephemeris data |
| 22:18.46 | koen | JoshTriplett: dgps is $$$$$ |
| 22:19.07 | koen | but it does give you milimeter accuracy |
| 22:19.09 | skome | when our GPS is in a fast-moving vehicle or obstructed location, it helps performance to have the assist |
| 22:19.19 | JoshTriplett | koen: Working on cutting that down to $$. :) |
| 22:19.29 | spikebik1 | dgps isn't worth much these days because they took the deliberately inserted noise out |
| 22:19.39 | spikebik1 | skome no it doesn't |
| 22:19.45 | koen | JoshTriplett: it just requires a fixed gps nearby + datalink |
| 22:19.48 | koen | and a good antenna |
| 22:20.07 | spikebik1 | agps is more about making the gps receiver cheaper |
| 22:20.14 | JoshTriplett | spikebik1: dgps helps more than you think; you can go from multi-meter uncertainty to 1-10 cm uncertainty. |
| 22:20.25 | JoshTriplett | koen: And the code to do the correlation. :) |
| 22:20.39 | spikebik1 | josh yes dgps helps (not agps), but it used to be 10M -> cm |
| 22:20.43 | koen | JoshTriplett: right, but that code is in the textbook :) |
| 22:20.47 | spikebik1 | oh wait or was it 100M |
| 22:20.49 | spikebik1 | yeah 100M -> cm |
| 22:20.54 | spikebik1 | not it's a few M -> cm |
| 22:21.02 | spikebik1 | so it's worth alot less these days |
| 22:21.08 | spikebik1 | but still helps |
| 22:21.48 | spikebik1 | skome so basically ephemeris is not the bottleneck these days |
| 22:22.21 | spikebik1 | and even a $70 GPS these days performs 10 times better than a $400 GPS did a year or two ago |
| 22:22.25 | skome | agreed. Not having decent locks _is_ |
| 22:22.41 | spikebik1 | right but you need a decent lock with or without Agps |
| 22:23.02 | JoshTriplett | spikebik1: Yeah, going from a few m to a few cm helps hugely in many applications. |
| 22:23.09 | spikebik1 | so sure with agps you could skip the gpsd on the openmoko |
| 22:23.18 | spikebik1 | and pay your provider to do the calculation and send you the result |
| 22:23.26 | spikebik1 | or you could just do it yourself at the cost of some cpu/ram |
| 22:23.39 | JoshTriplett | spikebik1: Rather defeats the purpose of having an open phone to offload proprietary stuff to the vendor. |
| 22:23.42 | spikebik1 | josh yup. |
| 22:23.55 | spikebik1 | josh yup |
| 22:24.02 | spikebik1 | thus a-gps isn't worth much |
| 22:24.14 | JoshTriplett | Much like the phones which say "Oh, all open, pay no attention to the GSM coprocessor behind the untouchable memory curtain" |
| 22:24.35 | spikebik1 | josh except for the new motorola |
| 22:24.53 | so_solid_moo | JoshTriplett: that's not openmoko? |
| 22:25.15 | JoshTriplett | spikebik1: What about the new motorola? |
| 22:25.23 | spikebik1 | although to be honest the openmoko doesn't bother me at all... as long as I can place/receive data and voice calls I'm happy with a black box |
| 22:25.31 | JoshTriplett | so_solid_moo: Not in the way I meant, no. |
| 22:25.42 | spikebik1 | there is a new single processor linux phone coming out, moto rizr z6 I think it's called |
| 22:25.45 | so_solid_moo | JoshTriplett: ok :) |
| 22:26.00 | spikebik1 | all current linux phones (and many others) are dual cpu... one for the radio, one for the gui |
| 22:26.01 | prpplague | JoshTriplett: i used to know a guy with the last name Triplett, funny thing was he was actually was a twin, he had a twin brother |
| 22:26.05 | JoshTriplett | so_solid_moo: The openmoko actually gives you access to the radio. Some of the phones just say "OK, PDA and phone, and you can't touch the phone part". |
| 22:26.12 | spikebik1 | yeah |
| 22:26.17 | spikebik1 | some charge to talk to the phone |
| 22:26.26 | spikebik1 | nextel had java aps for awhile |
| 22:26.35 | spikebik1 | but you had to pay per month to let the java aps talk to the network |
| 22:26.37 | JoshTriplett | prpplague: Not related to any twins, TTBOMK. |
| 22:26.41 | spikebik1 | (even if you already had network service) |
| 22:26.51 | JoshTriplett | spikebik1: Yeah. Because they can. |
| 22:27.09 | spikebik1 | so right now afaict, openmoko allows linux aps |
| 22:27.17 | spikebik1 | and motorola mostly only allows java aps |
| 22:27.23 | spikebik1 | (or at least supports devel for) |
| 22:27.29 | parag0n | ar e there plans for a J2ME environment for the openmoko? |
| 22:27.40 | spikebik1 | and various treo/palm based phones allow palm aps |
| 22:27.52 | spikebik1 | plan no, but the hardware looks rather j2me friendly |
| 22:27.58 | spikebik1 | (from what I've heard) |
| 22:28.07 | spikebik1 | 128MB ram and a arm cpu makes j2me feasible |
| 22:28.14 | spikebik1 | many phones with 1/2 that ram do decent java |
| 22:28.25 | spikebik1 | alas the java acceleration for the cpu is rather expensive to license |
| 22:28.36 | spikebik1 | (so I've heard) |
| 22:30.38 | JoshTriplett | spikebik1: The new motorola looks vaguely interesting, but I've become massively burned out on phones with tons of proprietary tech in them. |
| 22:31.44 | spikebik1 | not nearly as open as the openmoko, but shipping today, they supply kernel source, and many of the applications |
| 22:31.55 | JoshTriplett | spikebik1: In this case: "...Windows Media Digital Rights Management, Windows Media Audio and Media Transfer Protocol are integrated in the OS..." |
| 22:31.59 | spikebik1 | not to mention binutils, gcc, and related |
| 22:32.07 | spikebik1 | yup, not 100% open. |
| 22:32.22 | JoshTriplett | Especially since you can implement all of those things in open software. |
| 22:32.27 | spikebik1 | but you can compile your own kernel and add your own aps |
| 22:32.42 | spikebik1 | linux isn't particularly strong in DRM |
| 22:32.54 | JoshTriplett | spikebik1: It does a fairly good job of getting around it in some cases. :) |
| 22:32.55 | spikebik1 | so itunes and other media sources for the most part avoid selling to linux clients |
| 22:33.14 | spikebik1 | which is fine by me, I'm not really interested in the DRM content anyways |
| 22:33.29 | spikebik1 | I have an ipod without a single DRM song on it |
| 22:33.53 | spikebik1 | thank god..... I can move my music to the openmoko |
| 22:34.08 | noidd | in fairness, |
| 22:34.11 | spikebik1 | or motorola if I can't wait... my cell died this weekend 8-( |
| 22:34.23 | spikebik1 | guess I'll wait for friday to weigh my options |
| 22:35.25 | spikebik1 | the A1200 or Rokr E6 are decent safeties. Neither as open or as many pixels as the openmoko |
| 22:35.31 | xkr47 | anyone know if there are any "bluetooth hid build-it-yourself" electronics kits or chips ? |
| 22:35.40 | xkr47 | like if I wanted to hack together a hid keyboard |
| 22:35.49 | xkr47 | ;) |
| 22:35.52 | spikebik1 | afaik you just need bt |
| 22:36.06 | xkr47 | yeah.. but where do they sell them as parts, not ready-made devices |
| 22:36.07 | spikebik1 | rest can be done in software |
| 22:36.14 | xkr47 | or am I better off buying some keyboard and tearing it apart ?-) |
| 22:36.20 | xkr47 | well ok |
| 22:36.28 | xkr47 | just thought programming with hid was easier |
| 22:37.02 | spikebik1 | look for a bluetooth remote |
| 22:37.08 | noidd | I just want two inputs I can attach a morse paddle to |
| 22:37.18 | noidd | I can do data input at 50wpm then :-) |
| 22:37.40 | JoshTriplett | noidd: You can do 50wpm morse? |
| 22:37.54 | noidd | a few years ago I could year |
| 22:37.58 | noidd | I'm a tad rusty |
| 22:38.10 | xkr47 | noidd, :D |
| 22:38.12 | *** join/#openmoko jhwolfe (n=jhwolfe@ool-4578638e.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 22:38.14 | JoshTriplett | noidd: Still impressive. |
| 22:38.23 | noidd | I probaby could get close to that on an iambic paddle now sending |
| 22:38.32 | noidd | recieving I promise you I will suck |
| 22:38.39 | noidd | few years == 10 years |
| 22:38.42 | noidd | damn i'm old |
| 22:39.01 | *** join/#openmoko seb31 (n=flo@84.6.135.54) |
| 22:39.06 | JoshTriplett | noidd: I just started looking into how to learn morse recently. |
| 22:39.44 | noidd | http://www.tomstubes.com/images/CW%20Keys/CT%20Ham%20Dual%20(Iambic)%20Lever%20Paddle,%20Hand%20Crafted.jpg |
| 22:39.54 | noidd | I use dto use something almost identical to that |
| 22:40.07 | noidd | Josh: it changed my life |
| 22:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 22:41.09 | xkr47 | noidd, :DD |
| 22:41.21 | noidd | I met an OM who did telegraphy during WWII. He was the radio ops guy on HMS Newfoundland. |
| 22:41.26 | xkr47 | stereo plug ?-) |
| 22:41.36 | noidd | He's done it every day of his life since doing ham stuff |
| 22:42.04 | noidd | and I would watch him send/recv at silly speeds and hold a completely seperate conversation with me at the same time (in person) |
| 22:42.10 | xkr47 | ah... found bluetooth modules !! |
| 22:42.22 | xkr47 | www.elfa.se -> search "bluetooth" |
| 22:42.28 | noidd | I remember saying to myself that if I could learn to do that - I could learn to do anything |
| 22:42.31 | noidd | 2 years later ... |
| 22:43.04 | noidd | Because of that I honestly believe there isn't a single learnable skill I can't pick up with suitable motivation. |
| 22:43.10 | noidd | ie; lifechangeing |
| 22:43.38 | xkr47 | yeah.. it's the motivation that's the problem always :) |
| 22:43.43 | noidd | xkr47: Yeah, common and left paddle and right paddle |
| 22:43.53 | noidd | simple "switches" |
| 22:43.55 | xkr47 | hmm aha |
| 22:44.07 | noidd | put them into a keyer (very simple algorithm |
| 22:44.08 | noidd | ) |
| 22:44.12 | xkr47 | "A module for recessing designed for wireless communication using Bluetooth, class 1. The module has UART interface, handles transmission up to 100 m at clear view and transmission speeds of up to 200 kbit/s." |
| 22:44.13 | noidd | and out comes text |
| 22:44.36 | noidd | hold the left paddle in and you get dit-dit-dit-dit-dit (until you let go) |
| 22:44.47 | noidd | thr right paddle is dah-dah-dah-dah etc |
| 22:44.57 | noidd | hold both and you get dit-dah-dit-dah-dit-dah |
| 22:45.19 | noidd | or dah-dit-dah-dit-dah if you hit the right paddle before the squeeze |
| 22:45.20 | spikebik1 | I've heard scary stories about people awesome at morse code |
| 22:45.25 | noidd | its a very simple interface and very very fast |
| 22:45.30 | spikebik1 | multiple conversations... even in different languages |
| 22:45.49 | xkr47 | :) |
| 22:45.59 | noidd | yeah, I used to be able to hold two conversations, one in morse, one in speech |
| 22:46.07 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB410E3.ipt.aol.com) |
| 22:46.07 | xkr47 | :D |
| 22:46.26 | noidd | I wonder if I can get two digital input lines into the base connector |
| 22:46.35 | kabturek | impressive :) |
| 22:46.39 | noidd | or - I could build the worlds first bluetooth morse paddle |
| 22:46.40 | noidd | hah |
| 22:46.46 | *** join/#openmoko Knack (n=jhwolfe@ool-4578638e.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 22:46.50 | noidd | hmm, I should google for that |
| 22:46.59 | spikebik1 | heh |
| 22:47.01 | xkr47 | :D |
| 22:47.15 | spikebik1 | or build a SMS -> BT -> morse code widget |
| 22:47.21 | xkr47 | noidd, maybe you could just use the two buttons on the moko :D |
| 22:47.30 | spikebik1 | and then 2 openmoko's could talk in the same room via morse |
| 22:47.43 | noidd | morse has already been proven in the cellphone marketplace: |
| 22:47.44 | noidd | http://www.engadget.com/2005/05/06/morse-code-trumps-sms-in-head-to-head-speed-texting-combat |
| 22:47.45 | noidd | :-D |
| 22:47.47 | spikebik1 | fortunately bt works so that won't be necessary |
| 22:47.56 | spikebik1 | heh saw that |
| 22:48.27 | spikebik1 | I'm curious about the worlds fastest of both is |
| 22:48.28 | *** join/#openmoko unique (n=unique@ip43071.stuwe.fh-schmalkalden.de) |
| 22:48.43 | spikebik1 | some crazy dude sends like 5k messages a day |
| 22:49.05 | spikebik1 | do morse code people send in their own language? |
| 22:49.20 | spikebik1 | or do they have shorthand like the SMS folks do. |
| 22:49.31 | spikebik1 | I.e. C U 2 nite |
| 22:49.57 | JoshTriplett | spikebik1: Morse code does have shorthand, though not the SMS shorthand. |
| 22:50.04 | |Melkman| | heh, CQ |
| 22:50.24 | JoshTriplett | spikebik1: In particular, Q codes, CQ, and some other slang. |
| 22:50.46 | kabturek | ok enough .. i want the neo ... now ; ) |
| 22:50.53 | kabturek | im waitnig like .. 2 days now :) |
| 22:50.53 | spikebik1 | news friday! |
| 22:51.16 | ozamosi | kabturek: me too! I've lost my cell phone, and I really need a new one :( |
| 22:51.17 | |Melkman| | two whole more days to go :-( |
| 22:51.17 | JoshTriplett | spikebik1: According to several sources, the world record for morse stands at 75.2 WPM. |
| 22:51.32 | spikebik1 | wow |
| 22:51.41 | spikebik1 | saying something useful I imagine |
| 22:51.43 | JoshTriplett | spikebik1: Receiving. |
| 22:51.50 | JoshTriplett | spikebik1: And yes, real text. |
| 22:51.50 | spikebik1 | oh receiving |
| 22:52.00 | JoshTriplett | spikebik1: The sending record stands lower, I think. :) |
| 22:52.03 | spikebik1 | is receiving easier than sending? |
| 22:52.08 | spikebik1 | ah, apparently so |
| 22:52.23 | noidd | Ok - I don't see a bluetooth morse paddle |
| 22:52.33 | noidd | looks like I have a pic project - bwahaha |
| 22:53.07 | kabturek | ozamosi, yeah my moto v500 is dying and i wanted to get a moto e2 ( which also runs linux) but i wanted to wait for the neo ... i dont know if i can make it :) |
| 22:53.24 | noidd | Well - my callsign was a blessing and a curse in morse |
| 22:53.25 | spikebik1 | kab where do you live? |
| 22:53.32 | noidd | GW0TJO |
| 22:53.35 | noidd | almost all dahs |
| 22:53.43 | noidd | --. .-- ----- - .--- --- |
| 22:53.45 | ozamosi | Maybe I could borrow a phone or something for a couple of months... |
| 22:54.05 | noidd | really long but great in competitions since I could just slowly mangle everyone else in the pileup :-) |
| 22:54.12 | kabturek | spikebik1, poland |
| 22:54.13 | spikebik1 | anyone know what gsm freqs the openmoko supports? |
| 22:54.23 | noidd | all four bands spike |
| 22:54.33 | spikebik1 | cool |
| 22:54.43 | JoshTriplett | spikebik1: Looks like the sending record with a straight key (as opposed to assisted keys like the iambic key noidd mentioned) stands at 35 WPM. |
| 22:54.52 | spikebik1 | the reason I haven't bought an e2 is it doesn't support 850 MHz |
| 22:55.03 | spikebik1 | josh still impressive |
| 22:55.12 | JoshTriplett | spikebik1: Definitely. |
| 22:55.46 | spikebik1 | the A1200 is similar and is quad band |
| 22:56.00 | |Melkman| | how the work on serial multiplexing comming along ? |
| 22:56.46 | xkr47 | moko = -- --- -.- --- |
| 22:56.47 | xkr47 | :) |
| 22:58.03 | xorAxAx | a smiley! |
| 23:00.07 | xkr47 | ^^ ^-^ ^.^ ^-^ |
| 23:02.15 | kabturek | ok i now oficially hate offline bookmarks |
| 23:04.01 | xkr47 | maybe use apple bt keyboard with moko ;--) http://www.verkkokauppa.com/productimages/orig/24572_01.jpg |
| 23:04.33 | noidd | that slow? |
| 23:04.36 | noidd | 35wpm? |
| 23:06.20 | JoshTriplett | noidd: Straight key. |
| 23:06.34 | kabturek | im switching to ma.gnolia.com |
| 23:06.45 | kabturek | spikebik1, e2 can be hacked to support 850 |
| 23:07.19 | kabturek | spikebik1, simple seem edit |
| 23:07.42 | kabturek | as far as i remember ( dont have the bookmarks but working on finding the info ) |
| 23:08.29 | JoshTriplett | noidd: At least, according to the several sources I found. |
| 23:11.10 | kabturek | spikebik1, not the source that i was refering to but found a guide how to enable 850mhz http://www.e2mod.com/content/view/22/29/ |
| 23:18.40 | kabturek | "Known bugs: Sometimes it may crash." lol |
| 23:19.46 | xkr47 | ;) |
| 23:21.55 | noidd | Guys- whats the name of that package that we start our embedded distrbutions on |
| 23:22.07 | noidd | contains functionality for shell, init, ls,mount, df etc |
| 23:22.18 | noidd | busybox |
| 23:22.20 | noidd | got it - thx |
| 23:23.06 | *** join/#openmoko Azalar (n=Azalar@cpc1-acto7-0-0-cust688.brnt.cable.ntl.com) |
| 23:23.07 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@195.227.105.180) |
| 23:29.26 | *** join/#openmoko Stephmw (n=steph@212.69.51.139) |
| 23:30.45 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@mail.amext.com) |
| 23:30.53 | *** join/#openmoko netx303 (n=rlange@n2-55-2.dhcp.drexel.edu) |
| 23:32.24 | greentux | Stephmw: as long we dont see a openmoko announcement, we will dont get also one from TT ;) |
| 23:32.27 | greentux | good night |
| 23:33.25 | xkr47 | night |
| 23:43.06 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@mail.amext.com) |
| 23:43.28 | DukeOfURL | hello. what is the development platform? C? |
| 23:44.47 | mjr | that's my understanding, for the main apis |
| 23:44.55 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-177-203-37.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 23:45.08 | mjr | 'course, nothing prevents binding to other languages |
| 23:46.22 | *** part/#openmoko JoshTriplett (n=josh@unaffiliated/joshtriplett) |
| 23:46.57 | Psi | anyone know if the neo speaker is loud enough for handsfree? |
| 23:49.06 | Psi | *will be |
| 23:49.59 | DukeOfURL | In the states we have something called AGPS. Each cell base station has a GPS receiver and passes ephemeris datao the cell phone. This eliminates the time to capture the satellites. Anyone heard of this> |
| 23:50.20 | DukeOfURL | data to |
| 23:50.30 | spikebik1 | hey kabturek have you seen proof that enabling quad mode works? |
| 23:51.10 | mjr | DukeOfURL, Neo's GPS chip is an AGPS chip |
| 23:51.22 | Psi | interesting the neo has a higher res screen than the iphone |
| 23:51.38 | spikebik1 | duke yeah just discussed it. In general AGPS isn't worth it IMO, and getting the ephemeris data isn't a big deal |
| 23:51.51 | spikebik1 | psi and a smaller screen |
| 23:51.56 | Psi | yeah |
| 23:52.00 | spikebik1 | I'm wondering wherre increasing dpi is less useful |
| 23:52.07 | Psi | im looking at this table http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/iPhone |
| 23:52.12 | so_solid_moo | spikebik1: it's worth it if you don't want to keep gps constantly enabled |
| 23:52.21 | mjr | (apparently it can also get the assist info from the chip manufacturer's serverse via ip, but also work without assist) |
| 23:52.32 | kabturek | spikebik1, people on the forum said that it worked - i don't have the e2 ( yet) and i dont need 850 becouse it isnt used in my country. .. but i think its the same as with the V series |
| 23:52.39 | spikebik1 | so even disabled epheris data doesn't constantly expire |
| 23:52.53 | spikebik1 | the A1200 is quad band so it's not an issue |
| 23:53.03 | spikebik1 | 850 MHz is the reason I didnt' buy an e2 awhile back |
| 23:53.18 | spikebik1 | I'm not at all sure the hack just doesn't change the display and has no real effect on reception |
| 23:53.22 | spikebik1 | same with enabling edge |
| 23:54.11 | spikebik1 | so_solid_moo so if you've had your gps on recently your good to go |
| 23:55.17 | so_solid_moo | sure, for some value of recently |
| 23:55.25 | so_solid_moo | if it's not recent enough, agps helps |
| 23:55.48 | spikebik1 | dunno |
| 23:56.02 | spikebik1 | I randomly turn on my GPS and get a sync within the first minute |
| 23:56.15 | spikebik1 | even the first time out of the box |
| 23:56.44 | so_solid_moo | that's great, but a minute is actually a long time. |
| 23:57.31 | DukeOfURL | Does anyone know how well AGPS is supported by the cell companies? In the states? |
| 23:58.00 | DukeOfURL | Adding a GPS receiver to each cell tower wouldn't be cheap... |
| 23:58.06 | spikebik1 | just leaving the GPS in standby (almost zero power) removes even that issue |
| 23:58.17 | spikebik1 | cell towers have always had gps, they need them |
| 23:58.34 | spikebik1 | er at least always for digital, less sure of analog |
| 23:59.02 | DukeOfURL | Then would AGPS work indoors? |
| 23:59.06 | spikebik1 | no more than a regular GPS |
| 23:59.27 | spikebik1 | mine works indoors at home (normal house) but less so at work (commercial building) |
| 23:59.31 | kabturek | spikebik1, as i remember moto v500 was also triband and i could turn the 850 too , the same goes for the L6 ( evidence here http://www.modmymoto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=501 ) so i belive the e2 is capable of quad band |
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