| 00:00.06 | Psi | yeah |
| 00:00.27 | xkr47 | is the disconnection between the developers and us to avoid the problem of wanting too much and never getting anything released ? |
| 00:00.43 | Psi | also, it gets the app development going so that when the 2nd version comes out there are lots of apps for it |
| 00:00.48 | PirateHead | greentux: the OpenMoko platform is a good selling point in negotiations with wlan manufacturers. If they open some drivers, they open themselves to a dedicated user base for their hardware. |
| 00:00.48 | greentux | FIC has a business case. sure. road had also a business case. but they have only prototypes. |
| 00:01.21 | xkr47 | PirateHead, good point.. |
| 00:01.32 | xkr47 | let's hope the user base is big enough :) |
| 00:01.37 | Psi | ^^ |
| 00:02.26 | Psi | i think it is, but tools will have to be written so average coders are able to write stuff for the phone |
| 00:02.57 | greentux | ok, in 4 weeks we will know more :) |
| 00:03.04 | Psi | xkr47, hehe |
| 00:03.06 | xkr47 | 4 weeks ?-) |
| 00:03.19 | Psi | xkr47, its feb then |
| 00:03.35 | xkr47 | goodnight greentux |
| 00:05.08 | Psi | anyone know if there is actually going to be preorders? |
| 00:05.49 | xkr47 | :) |
| 00:06.02 | xkr47 | like "doh, missed it" |
| 00:06.25 | Psi | heh |
| 00:06.33 | Psi | why would preorders stop? |
| 00:06.44 | xkr47 | how many on this channel is involved nda-involved in the moko project ? |
| 00:07.16 | spikebik1 | not I |
| 00:07.23 | spikebik1 | psi because they are widely available ;-) |
| 00:07.49 | spikebik1 | xkr I was thinking of writing a find me program for a moko and attaching one to my dog |
| 00:07.52 | xkr47 | I heard there will be 100000 windows mokos going out, but.. |
| 00:08.04 | spikebik1 | I'm hearing a few 100 to begin with and scaling for demand |
| 00:08.14 | spikebik1 | motorola's selling a butload of linux phones... not like there isn't a market |
| 00:08.19 | xkr47 | doh, maybe I won't get mine in feb then :P |
| 00:08.20 | Psi | xkr47, although, im not sure if people in here would admit to being involved even if they were, would get swamped with questions otherwise |
| 00:08.35 | xkr47 | I mean I will try, but.. |
| 00:08.39 | spikebik1 | alas my cell phone display died, I can call out... but need a new phone soonish |
| 00:08.43 | xkr47 | .. there are more than 100 on this channel already |
| 00:09.03 | spikebik1 | I'd love for the open moko to turn into a homing device if my dog got lost |
| 00:09.13 | xkr47 | hmm let's also hope there are no dead pixels in the displays |
| 00:09.32 | spikebik1 | any new news on the hackers lunchbox? |
| 00:09.34 | Psi | very true |
| 00:09.41 | spikebik1 | I think an update was mentioned before this weekend |
| 00:09.57 | xkr47 | Psi, exactly .. so that's why I asked for the number only |
| 00:10.00 | Psi | although, you could redesign the menu system so the bright pixel was part of it :P |
| 00:10.01 | Stephmw | xkr47: I've not yet had a display with dead pixels on a mobile phone |
| 00:11.45 | xkr47 | I mean there is only 307200 pixels!! |
| 00:11.46 | xkr47 | :) |
| 00:12.03 | Psi | yeah, its much easier to use A grade panels when you only need a few pixels |
| 00:12.07 | Psi | less wastage |
| 00:12.09 | xkr47 | I guess it's easier to discard faulty tfts with low resolutions than ones with high resolution |
| 00:12.20 | xkr47 | .. |
| 00:12.51 | Stephmw | mind you, I've had any number of duff keyboard protos :) |
| 00:13.17 | Stephmw | *on protos |
| 00:18.08 | *** join/#openmoko jguiditta (n=sensashn@cpe-071-070-160-065.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 00:58.26 | *** join/#openmoko edwardocallaghan (n=edward@host86-141-175-138.range86-141.btcentralplus.com) |
| 00:58.46 | edwardocallaghan | Hi |
| 00:59.03 | edwardocallaghan | What's the word on the street lads ? |
| 00:59.43 | thresh_ | "vote bush" |
| 01:00.20 | edwardocallaghan | lol |
| 01:01.17 | *** join/#openmoko sannes (i=ace@har.sagt.no) |
| 01:02.46 | *** join/#openmoko [g2] (n=g2@nslu2-linux/g2) |
| 01:07.37 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=Jae@mobile-166-184-234-095.mycingular.net) |
| 01:11.41 | edwardocallaghan | FIC need to get this out the door soon before more of this iphone crap comes on stage |
| 01:11.54 | koen | [02:08] mickey|berlin: btw., we will announce a clear roadmap and more details very soon |
| 01:11.54 | koen | [02:08] mickey|berlin: working on that statement tomorrow |
| 01:12.11 | edwardocallaghan | Then they need to get it on CNN and BBC news, Linux smart phone that's open... |
| 01:12.29 | edwardocallaghan | Hi |
| 01:12.42 | edwardocallaghan | Is that some one who works for FIC ? |
| 01:13.08 | koen | the one and only mickeyl |
| 01:13.59 | edwardocallaghan | Right I only drop in and out of this IRC now a days as this project started to seem dead |
| 01:14.16 | edwardocallaghan | But seems it may be picking up agine |
| 01:14.38 | edwardocallaghan | When are people going to see a proper site about the phone @ http://www.openmoko.com/ |
| 01:17.12 | jaebird | this channel is far from dead :) |
| 01:17.38 | jaebird | it has trippled in size in the last couple of weeks |
| 01:17.40 | xkr47 | edwardocallaghan, dead is more an adjective describing the developers' statuses than the project status ;) |
| 01:18.35 | jaebird | apt is dead |
| 01:18.48 | xkr47 | ? |
| 01:19.12 | jaebird | apt: why are you dead? |
| 01:19.15 | apt | jaebird: I think you lost me on that one |
| 01:19.50 | jaebird | apt: botsnack |
| 01:19.50 | apt | jaebird: thanks |
| 01:21.12 | edwardocallaghan | Yes I am talking about some time ago now |
| 01:21.36 | edwardocallaghan | But it looks like things are coming back on track with this phone |
| 01:21.47 | edwardocallaghan | But they said Jan... now Feb... |
| 01:23.02 | jaebird | yeah but this is the norm for the industry |
| 01:23.17 | jaebird | how many times has Vista been pushed back...it is almost laughable! |
| 01:23.28 | edwardocallaghan | I know but FIC need to get this one out the door |
| 01:23.29 | Psi | a reason was given for the delay, although i cant remember where i read it so i dunno if its legit |
| 01:23.43 | edwardocallaghan | What reason ? |
| 01:23.51 | jaebird | if they make good on Feb, that would be a first IMHO |
| 01:23.57 | jaebird | they added BT |
| 01:24.04 | jaebird | not sure if that was the reason you heard |
| 01:24.32 | edwardocallaghan | Maybe it was something to do with the stack for BT |
| 01:24.35 | Psi | reason i read was "What they expected to be the final prototype was found to have a small bug and so they needed to make another prototype" |
| 01:24.57 | Psi | hardware bug |
| 01:25.29 | xkr47 | I read that in irc too ;) |
| 01:25.43 | jaebird | sounds good to me...I find it amazing that they can actually release something this quick after prototype |
| 01:26.07 | jaebird | if Feb happens I will be very happy |
| 01:26.44 | Psi | well, ya dunno when that actually happened, could have been november last year for example |
| 01:26.45 | edwardocallaghan | FIC are big, I mean really big! |
| 01:27.25 | edwardocallaghan | So if they pull there own wight then they could get it out it weeks |
| 01:28.23 | jaebird | that is probably how they will make their stated goal |
| 01:30.02 | mickey|berlin | g'night |
| 01:30.40 | *** part/#openmoko jaebird (n=Jae@mobile-166-184-234-095.mycingular.net) |
| 01:35.11 | rboehme | I hope in Feb I can just order my OpenMoko and get it, soon. My Treo is dying, and it seems like it's counting on dying very quickly, before it's replaced. |
| 01:35.54 | edwardocallaghan | Yes my razor is dead |
| 01:36.03 | edwardocallaghan | But some how I am making it work |
| 01:36.28 | edwardocallaghan | I think soon I will have to connect a PP3 to its USB port to power it |
| 01:36.30 | edwardocallaghan | lol |
| 01:36.45 | rboehme | mm. My problem si all of my finances are on my Treo, so if it dies I go to using pencil and stacks of paper for a while |
| 01:40.09 | xkr47 | I suggest you go using pencil a little before so you have a backup of your data |
| 01:45.20 | edwardocallaghan | oh dear |
| 01:48.14 | edwardocallaghan | I think they need to set a date now and have some pictures of the device on there site |
| 01:51.36 | edwardocallaghan | Good night all |
| 01:51.43 | *** part/#openmoko edwardocallaghan (n=edward@host86-141-175-138.range86-141.btcentralplus.com) |
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| 06:24.05 | rlozier | any guarantees the phone wont be delayed past feb? |
| 06:31.52 | aloril | I don't there are any guarantees, but I except it to be available then myself (I'm not associated with FIC any way, just guessing) |
| 06:32.12 | aloril | s/ there/ think there/ |
| 06:36.37 | aloril | based on talk on this channel I think one reason for it being delayed is that they wanted bluetooth (again partially guessing) |
| 06:38.58 | Matt_H | they needed some sort of networking |
| 06:46.08 | aloril | there is frequent argument about "iPhone can't have 3rd party apps because that would lead to frequent crashed" |
| 06:46.22 | aloril | well.. is OS running on iPhone that fragile? ;-) |
| 06:47.04 | aloril | at least Neo1973 has robust OS so I don't think is any good argument |
| 06:48.11 | cbpage | all the signals are produced by the gsm radio which is running in a seperate processor |
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| 07:28.49 | *** part/#openmoko nasum (n=nasum@c-71-198-94-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 07:28.49 | Matt_H | the iFaithful will be the only ones buying the iPhone |
| 07:28.49 | Matt_H | suckers |
| 07:31.24 | Matt_H | now DRM is dying Steve had to come up another way to lock them into the platform ... |
| 07:31.25 | *** join/#openmoko mickem (i=1000@c-2544e455.012-247-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
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| 07:34.48 | xkr47 | Matt_H, like these maybe ?-) http://cache.consumerist.com/assets/resources/2007/01/iphoneinabox.jpg |
| 07:34.48 | Matt_H | wankers |
| 07:36.59 | Matt_H | daddy will have to buy those kids hat phone |
| 07:40.49 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 07:41.37 | xkr47 | "can I, please daddy? all my wanker friends have one!" |
| 07:43.27 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 07:43.38 | Matt_H | the ipod is a fad now iPod users are waking up to the fact they got locked into itunes they are like whoa |
| 07:46.13 | Tv | whose locked into itunes? I'm happy with mp3s on my ipod nano |
| 07:46.22 | Tv | who's |
| 07:46.51 | Matt_H | and in most countires you break copyright laws to get those mp3s |
| 07:47.04 | Matt_H | including format shifting |
| 07:47.24 | Tv | I can do anything with data I own in finland.. |
| 07:47.25 | thedaniel | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:47.31 | Tv | thedaniel: ha-ha |
| 07:47.45 | Tv | thedaniel: I can imagine the doggie saddle bag with an ipod pocket |
| 07:48.07 | thedaniel | and the other one can cart around speakers |
| 07:48.31 | Matt_H | the RIAA still contends format shifting is agaist the law |
| 07:48.42 | Tv | they don't set the law over here.. |
| 07:48.54 | Tv | also, RIAA doesn't do anything directly here. |
| 07:50.27 | *** join/#openmoko thresh_ (n=popa3d@213.219.222.36) |
| 07:51.49 | benJIman | "Sean Moss-Pultz, the project's architect, expects the first samples of OpenMoko hardware to ship in March 2007." March now :( |
| 07:52.00 | Tv | jan always was a pre-release |
| 07:52.05 | Tv | small group of hackers |
| 07:52.06 | Tv | but yeah |
| 07:52.14 | cbpage | at announcement that was dec. |
| 07:52.15 | cbpage | :P |
| 07:52.20 | Tv | hah |
| 07:52.26 | benJIman | Tv: yes but recently said febuary, now march |
| 07:52.44 | Tv | "Sean Moss-Pultz, the project's architect, hopes the first samples of OpenMoko hardware to ship." ;) |
| 07:53.05 | thedaniel | "Sean Moss-Pultz...hopes." |
| 07:53.35 | buz | so they got two months time to add wifi and a v8 |
| 07:53.36 | buz | gooood |
| 07:54.02 | benJIman | what's v8? |
| 07:54.08 | thedaniel | a big car engine |
| 07:54.26 | *** join/#openmoko m1uvVZHVd (n=m1uvVZHV@ool-4571b1fb.dyn.optonline.net) |
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| 08:01.20 | *** join/#openmoko Matt_H (n=chatzill@c-75-68-22-196.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 08:01.34 | m1uvVZHVd | hi matt |
| 08:01.49 | Matt_H | damn firefox |
| 08:02.11 | m1uvVZHVd | Hmm.. ok |
| 08:02.43 | xkr47 | Tv, are you ordering a moko too? or was I speaking to you about it already.. |
| 08:02.55 | xkr47 | Tv, at least I spoke with some finn about sharing the shipping costs.. |
| 08:02.56 | Tv | I want one. |
| 08:02.58 | m1uvVZHVd | I can't wait for this phone to be avail! It is such an obvious step in the right direction, yet noone has done it yet! |
| 08:03.02 | Tv | xkr47: that'd be mjr, probably |
| 08:03.06 | xkr47 | ok yeah |
| 08:03.09 | Tv | xkr47: I might be in the US when it ships |
| 08:03.13 | xkr47 | ah |
| 08:03.59 | thedaniel | Tv: we'll get a crate of them shipped to the office |
| 08:04.12 | thedaniel | and expense the hell out of it |
| 08:04.32 | m1uvVZHVd | how much are these? |
| 08:05.09 | xkr47 | buz, so they're not putting a V12 anymore ?-D |
| 08:05.25 | buz | we might get a turbo |
| 08:07.21 | xkr47 | sorry, no V8, but the current plan is you get this external diesel engine instead |
| 08:07.43 | Tv | WILL IT NEED USB POWER???!!!oneoneone |
| 08:07.48 | *** part/#openmoko m1uvVZHVd (n=m1uvVZHV@ool-4571b1fb.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 08:12.09 | Matt_H | This iPhone publicity can only be good for openmoko and the neo |
| 08:12.41 | thedaniel | This iPhone being massive crippleware can only be good for the neo |
| 08:13.08 | Matt_H | that also |
| 08:18.36 | *** join/#openmoko stryderjzw (n=stryderj@216.232.85.137) |
| 08:26.09 | cying | i should remind folks that |
| 08:26.16 | cying | iphone still has a full blown web browser |
| 08:26.22 | cying | and will probably support dashboard widgets |
| 08:26.38 | cying | so as far as web apps go, iphone will still have a bunch of 3rd party web apps |
| 08:26.52 | Matt_H | well you can only do so much with javascript |
| 08:27.24 | Matt_H | its still an outward looking device |
| 08:27.24 | cying | true, but you can still do a lot |
| 08:29.57 | Matt_H | theres some great features the ipod could have if it had wi-fi |
| 08:30.33 | Matt_H | word on the street is that the next ipod might have wi-fi and be touchscreen |
| 08:31.04 | xkr47 | just for show-off :) |
| 08:31.25 | *** join/#openmoko iiz (i=Iceburg@196.46.65.24) |
| 08:31.42 | Matt_H | wants doom on his moko |
| 08:32.12 | iiz | is openmoko only going to be available for the Neo1973 or any smartphone ? |
| 08:32.15 | thedaniel | well Matt_H - if i can play doom on my windows mobile phone i'm sure you can play it on the moko |
| 08:33.00 | Tv | iiz: it'll work on Neo1973, you can make it work anywhere. |
| 08:35.50 | aloril | benJIman: where did you get that March comment? |
| 08:35.52 | Matt_H | shame the video specs are low on the Neo ARM |
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| 09:07.48 | freeeak | hi |
| 09:07.48 | freeeak | oh i see Eta changed to february |
| 09:12.50 | greentux | 2 weeks ago... |
| 09:17.27 | *** join/#openmoko marcellus (n=mill@h81172135101.kund.kommunicera.umea.se) |
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| 09:41.00 | Stephmw | oh dear... openmoko hits TheRegister |
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| 10:43.24 | glommer | under which license is your framework released? |
| 10:44.20 | benJIman | freeeak: march according to el reg |
| 10:45.26 | freeeak | what? |
| 10:45.52 | freeeak | http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2007/01/15/open_phone/ |
| 10:46.00 | benJIman | "< freeeak> oh i see Eta changed to february" |
| 10:46.26 | freeeak | there they say march 2007 |
| 10:46.37 | benJIman | That's what I said. |
| 10:46.40 | freeeak | ok |
| 10:46.48 | freeeak | ty |
| 10:46.52 | *** join/#openmoko mickey|berlin (n=mickey@berligate.hmw-consulting.de) |
| 10:49.23 | *** join/#openmoko cmatei (n=cmatei@89.136.185.113) |
| 10:49.56 | Stephmw | mickey|berlin: hiya mickey |
| 10:50.01 | mickey|berlin | morning guys |
| 10:50.07 | koen | hey mickey|berlin |
| 10:50.17 | hrw|work | hi here mickey|berlin |
| 10:53.03 | *** join/#openmoko ab (n=ab@mail.samba.org) |
| 10:59.49 | *** join/#openmoko Stephmw (n=steph@212.69.51.139) |
| 11:20.34 | koen | mickey|berlin: any new and exciting news? |
| 11:27.12 | mickey|berlin | I'd say "soon", but then I'd sound like ljp :D |
| 11:27.25 | mickey|berlin | seriously, there will be an announcement tomorrow or so |
| 11:27.42 | mickey|berlin | giving more details about the time plan for this year |
| 11:28.19 | koen | sean was happy with the new and improved(TM) touchscreen? |
| 11:28.56 | Stephmw | mickey|berlin: :) |
| 11:29.56 | mickey|berlin | very :) |
| 11:30.23 | hrw|work | koen: the one which finally work? |
| 11:31.55 | mickey|berlin | yeah, that one |
| 11:32.09 | mickey|berlin | now we finally can enjoy the slowness of Gtk+/X11 |
| 11:32.12 | mickey|berlin | cough |
| 11:33.22 | mickey|berlin | when I'm back I will create an OpenMoko image for my SL6000 and do some tests there as well |
| 11:33.36 | mickey|berlin | VGA portrait, so no need to touch anything |
| 11:33.45 | *** join/#openmoko thresh__ (n=popa3d@213.219.222.36) |
| 11:46.28 | hrw|work | http://www.tuaw.com/2007/01/13/nbc-and-npr-feature-iphone-humor/ |
| 12:07.44 | marcellus | No activity on the mailing list the last two days? |
| 12:17.52 | *** join/#openmoko va (n=va@master.telpro.lt) |
| 12:18.15 | mickey|berlin | dunno. will ping the server master in a couple of minutes |
| 12:19.04 | *** join/#openmoko thresh_ (n=popa3d@213.219.222.36) |
| 12:27.33 | seaLne | i tried to subscribe on saturday and never received anything back from mailman |
| 12:32.33 | mickey|berlin | yeah, we run out of file descriptors on the box |
| 12:32.36 | mickey|berlin | fixing it atm. |
| 12:36.02 | *** join/#openmoko aline (n=aline@iceberg.sol.id.au) |
| 12:39.10 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-143-238-192-127.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 12:43.16 | seaLne | thanks got my confirm subscribe now |
| 12:52.50 | *** join/#openmoko Sencer (n=Sencer@dslb-084-063-025-026.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
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| 13:41.57 | koen | wtfh? |
| 13:41.57 | koen | http://tweakers.net/nieuws/45921/Eerste-samples-open-Linux-telefoon-in-maart-verwacht.html |
| 13:41.57 | koen | it even caught the news in .nl |
| 13:41.58 | *** join/#openmoko manos (n=chatzill@ed129.eurodyn.com) |
| 13:41.59 | mickey|berlin | heh |
| 13:41.59 | manos | hi, does it run java and is any dev pricing estimation available? |
| 13:42.23 | koen | "it will take a while till the fanatics port helix, banshee, mplayer and maybe the gimp" |
| 13:42.27 | Stephmw | manos: no Java unless you join the hopefuls and help put it on there |
| 13:42.47 | Stephmw | koen: no way it'll do the gimp without the V12 |
| 13:43.38 | manos | stephmw: i believe the micro edition for v6 went OS by sun last month or so |
| 13:43.49 | koen | Stephmw: one of the gimp developers said the gimp is so slow on 'embedded' hardware because it keeps all layers in memory 2 or 3 times |
| 13:44.07 | koen | Stephmw: so maybe with the 128MB we only need a v8 :) |
| 13:44.15 | manos | stephmw: but i'd fall too short in making this work on the device i believe |
| 13:45.11 | Stephmw | manos: the work needed will likely be integration at the LCDUI peer level, it's not insurmountable, but it's also not something that'll be done quickly |
| 13:45.22 | Stephmw | manos: Java devs seem to be in the minority atm :) |
| 13:45.49 | Stephmw | koen: bah, there's so much the gimp can do without layers... let's remove them |
| 13:45.51 | koen | Stephmw: vocal, but lazy ;) |
| 13:46.10 | Stephmw | koen: it's easy to me lazy without SDKs |
| 13:46.20 | koen | :) |
| 13:46.23 | Stephmw | my particular problem is actually apathy |
| 13:46.36 | Stephmw | I do too much coding at work and CBA to do any in my free time atm |
| 13:47.09 | manos | stephmw: wil the SDK include some kind of emulator or will i have to wait for the actual HW? |
| 13:47.27 | koen | I was not getting at you, but all the other people shouting "java!" and going quiet when being pointed to doing some work |
| 13:47.29 | leventhal | i can live without java if it does python |
| 13:47.46 | Stephmw | koen: oh, I realise - I just have a go at myself |
| 13:48.36 | manos | keon: most java devs are not really the type of folk that make linux distros :-/ |
| 13:51.31 | Stephmw | manos: are you looking to do development, or just as a user? |
| 13:51.33 | Tv | I hate all the java apps on my symbian.. |
| 13:51.41 | Tv | give me native over java any day |
| 13:51.47 | Tv | it's frigging open source, we can recompile |
| 13:51.57 | manos | keon: dev, but on app level, not the OS |
| 13:51.58 | Stephmw | Tv: I hate all native apps on my symbian... give me Java any day :) |
| 13:52.12 | benJIman | Tv: java can be faster |
| 13:52.16 | leventhal | Sun opensourced the libraries not the VM i thought |
| 13:52.19 | manos | s/koen/stephmw/ |
| 13:52.30 | benJIman | leventhal: the me jvm is open now, and the other will be soon |
| 13:52.39 | leventhal | oh.. sweet |
| 13:52.48 | Stephmw | manos: feel free to hang around #classpath as well then :) |
| 13:52.57 | Stephmw | manos: app devs are always welcome |
| 13:53.34 | Stephmw | manos: we always need more victims^W testers^W fellow java devs :) |
| 13:53.48 | manos | stephmw: LOL |
| 13:54.02 | leventhal | heh |
| 13:56.46 | manos | any idea on the device retail cost? also, will direct be the only channel? |
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| 14:07.25 | koen | Stephmw: would jamvm+classpath make you happy? |
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| 14:08.20 | Stephmw | koen: not when there's a VM+JIT coming soon |
| 14:08.45 | koen | Stephmw: I wouldn't want anything but gcj-x |
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| 14:08.54 | koen | which now works on ARM |
| 14:09.13 | Stephmw | you absolutely want it natively compiled? |
| 14:09.23 | koen | why not? |
| 14:10.03 | koen | it's not like you can drop in a jar and expect it to work, you need some gui wrapper |
| 14:10.20 | koen | and when you are doing a wrapper for the neo, why not skip bytecode and go native |
| 14:11.17 | Stephmw | the whole point is to get a J2ME VM... and those accept dropped-in jars :) |
| 14:11.31 | benJIman | koen: because native would be slower probably |
| 14:12.02 | koen | someone drank the kool-aid |
| 14:12.02 | Stephmw | benJIman: no stiring - we've done well without language wars so far :) |
| 14:12.14 | manos | j2me is the way to go, we poor devs just want stuff like midlets to work when we drop them in |
| 14:12.38 | manos | with a normal VM what would our GUI options be? |
| 14:13.39 | benJIman | Stephmw: Not stirring, but with a VM it will generally perform better |
| 14:13.59 | benJIman | optimisations can be performed later, rather than guessing in advance, compiled java will have to load huge libraries etc |
| 14:14.57 | koen | a whole gallon of kool-aid even |
| 14:15.42 | benJIman | gcj compiled stuff is nearly always slower than running with JVM, except for SWT |
| 14:21.31 | benJIman | http://www.shudo.net/jit/perf/ some benchmarks of various vms with gcj as comparison |
| 14:21.49 | Stephmw | guys. let's do this when we have a VM on the device. |
| 14:21.59 | Stephmw | no sense mathturbating before |
| 14:22.30 | Stephmw | *ahem* |
| 14:22.39 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84-122-63-17.onocable.ono.com) |
| 14:22.52 | Stephmw | anyway, there are some nice games written for J2ME that I'd like to play |
| 14:23.10 | koen | so add a recipe for it to OE |
| 14:24.19 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84-122-63-17.onocable.ono.com) |
| 14:24.25 | Stephmw | koen: for a start... a new shiny toy |
| 14:24.33 | Stephmw | koen: gotta get something to work up the enthusiasm |
| 14:25.04 | Stephmw | <-- married |
| 14:25.06 | Stephmw | :) |
| 14:26.21 | koen | <-- not married, but taken |
| 14:29.54 | manos | OK, i took a look around sun, looks like the sources for the CLDC HotSpot VM are or soon will be available |
| 14:31.16 | manos | this is supposed to be much faster than KVM and targets 16/32 bit RISC like ARM, see http://java.sun.com/products/cldc/ |
| 14:33.24 | Tv | I want a pony. |
| 14:33.32 | Tv | With multitouch. |
| 14:34.48 | manos | rght, what OE? |
| 14:35.46 | koen | the first URL in the mail |
| 14:37.02 | manos | ur build broke due to caffe? |
| 14:37.46 | Stephmw | an existing VM is needed to bootstrap Sun's builds |
| 14:37.52 | manos | i suppose i can try to build according to your email and sun's PDF but where would i run and test the thing? |
| 14:37.55 | Stephmw | their build system is foobar'd |
| 14:38.14 | manos | heh "In their infinite and infallible wisdom Sun decided that you need java to build java, so please have j2se installed" |
| 14:38.18 | koen | I thought Ur was destroyed long ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur |
| 14:39.26 | koen | ah, the lunchbox will have jtag |
| 14:40.22 | stefan_schmidt | koen: heh, that would be sweet. :) |
| 14:41.27 | *** join/#openmoko myren__ (n=myren@63.231.83.177) |
| 14:41.50 | manos | this thing costs 2.5 k? |
| 14:42.18 | stefan_schmidt | manos: The bdi200, yes. Of course it will not be included. |
| 14:42.48 | *** join/#openmoko jthomas (n=jthomas@hotel.sierrabravo.net) |
| 14:42.52 | koen | stefan_schmidt: some other kind of usb<>jtag thingy would be neat |
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| 14:47.18 | stefan_schmidt | koen: yes. |
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| 14:48.33 | stefan_schmidt | koen: I think it will be some kind of daughter board. Perhaps a usb connection to the whole board |
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| 15:29.10 | manchicken | Is openmoko free software under the GPL? |
| 15:29.39 | Sencer | IIRC it's GPL and LGPL |
| 15:29.54 | koen | and one closed source piece |
| 15:30.04 | manchicken | What's that? |
| 15:30.38 | manchicken | The GPS thingy? |
| 15:31.05 | manchicken | I don't understand why that one is non-free. Does anybody have time to explain that? |
| 15:31.16 | noidd | 'lo |
| 15:31.29 | noidd | because GPS emphemaris data isn't free |
| 15:31.57 | manchicken | Is there any free GPS data? |
| 15:32.09 | noidd | as I understajnd it, basic GPS functions will work without the non-free userspace daemon |
| 15:32.40 | noidd | if you want added accuracy of the phone tower triangulation thingy, you need to run the non-free userspace daemon. |
| 15:32.44 | noidd | users choice |
| 15:32.52 | manchicken | Ah. |
| 15:33.03 | so_solid_moo | noidd: that's apparently not correct; the gpsd is always needed. |
| 15:33.33 | noidd | I'm prepared to be corrected |
| 15:34.06 | Zer0Her0_ | 2 questions, is there a ballpark that the device is gonna go for? and is any of this code available yet? |
| 15:34.29 | manchicken | Does this so far only run on this phone by FIC? |
| 15:34.32 | noidd | $350 and yes |
| 15:34.32 | so_solid_moo | noidd: Sean said in December I think, on the list, that it was needed |
| 15:35.01 | noidd | openembedded works on a metric tonne of devices |
| 15:35.10 | noidd | the FIC phone is just another platform. |
| 15:35.38 | manchicken | Is there a list of supported platforms? |
| 15:36.01 | noidd | <manos> heh "In their infinite and infallible wisdom Sun decided that you need java to build java, so please have j2se installed" |
| 15:36.10 | noidd | Meh, you need a C compiler to complie gcc |
| 15:36.15 | noidd | it's not really that different |
| 15:36.32 | seaLne | manchicken: http://www.openembedded.org/ |
| 15:38.24 | Zer0Her0_ | sorry was grabbing some coffee, $350 USD?!? |
| 15:38.47 | leventhal | for an unsubsidized phone with GPS that's cheap |
| 15:38.52 | Zer0Her0_ | oh i know |
| 15:38.59 | Zer0Her0_ | my amazement is at the cheapness actually |
| 15:39.05 | leventhal | yeah me too |
| 15:39.19 | mitsuhiko | woa. apple sucks |
| 15:39.28 | Zer0Her0_ | mitsuhiko: hehe ;) |
| 15:39.43 | mitsuhiko | Zer0Her0_: just read that apple sues bloggers for iphone like skins... |
| 15:39.50 | mitsuhiko | not for making them: for showing off them |
| 15:39.56 | Zer0Her0_ | ouch. |
| 15:39.56 | marcellus | Isn't writing a language's compiler in itself every language designer's first goal, anyway. |
| 15:40.16 | Zer0Her0_ | *sigh* i'm worried apple is gonna lose their "cool" this year |
| 15:40.41 | Zer0Her0_ | where is the source located? |
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| 15:52.11 | jthomas | anyone know about the Neo's colour choices, when it goes on sale? |
| 15:52.44 | so_solid_moo | pink and lime green. |
| 15:52.58 | leventhal | is it p!nk pink or just regular kind? |
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| 16:03.19 | mickey|berlin | orange/white |
| 16:03.23 | mickey|berlin | black/gra |
| 16:03.24 | mickey|berlin | y |
| 16:03.28 | mickey|berlin | these two combinations |
| 16:04.24 | stefan_schmidt | mickey|berlin: And the brushed metal version? ;) |
| 16:05.14 | mickey|berlin | nah (RF... ya know) |
| 16:05.22 | mickey|berlin | the black/gray case looks good |
| 16:07.45 | stefan_schmidt | ok, that's even the one I prefer. |
| 16:10.16 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 16:10.39 | jthomas | :( i want orange/black or orange/grey... white looks too lame |
| 16:10.48 | so_solid_moo | jthomas: spraypaint? |
| 16:10.54 | xkr47 | hi mickey! |
| 16:11.02 | xkr47 | any updates? |
| 16:11.42 | Zer0Her0_ | yea i second Orange/Black |
| 16:11.42 | leventhal | i think i have till august left on my contract.. once that's over i'll pick up the neo1973 |
| 16:12.13 | leventhal | oh who am i kidding.. i'll probably buy one a couple months after its out |
| 16:12.23 | leventhal | i just won't move my SIM |
| 16:12.23 | Zer0Her0_ | same here |
| 16:12.33 | mickey|berlin | xkr47: no updates, but an announcement tomorrow |
| 16:12.53 | xkr47 | ok, take it easy :) |
| 16:12.55 | sannes | the question is.. when tomorrow :P |
| 16:13.05 | mickey|berlin | no idea |
| 16:13.19 | mickey|berlin | it's not written yet :) |
| 16:13.37 | jthomas | here is red/white (or is that orange?) and green/white http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/fics-linuxbased-smartphone-213016.php |
| 16:14.19 | mickey|berlin | these are not the final cass |
| 16:14.21 | mickey|berlin | cases |
| 16:16.21 | koen | the final case will have a 40" plasma screen |
| 16:16.31 | koen | for watching HDTV decoded by the FPGAs |
| 16:16.41 | prpplague | koen: hehe |
| 16:17.10 | Tv | any "final case" is a coffin ;) |
| 16:17.18 | mickey|berlin | indeed |
| 16:17.20 | mickey|berlin | heh |
| 16:17.21 | prpplague | koen: i'm kinda interested to find out if FIC will oem the guts for the moko |
| 16:17.36 | mickey|berlin | ? |
| 16:18.06 | koen | BYC - Bring your own case |
| 16:18.29 | prpplague | mickey|berlin: basically to use the core components(i.e. the lcd and main board) in other OEM products |
| 16:18.48 | mickey|berlin | ah |
| 16:18.58 | mickey|berlin | no idea |
| 16:19.28 | prpplague | mickey|berlin: alot of manufacturers will do that to increase their production volume and get better prices |
| 16:19.57 | koen | mickey|berlin: with abiword 2.5.0 we can do colabrative sms writing :) |
| 16:20.14 | prpplague | is there a wiki up for the moko yet? |
| 16:20.55 | sannes | prpplague: think that is coming out the same time as the phone? or was that the community site? |
| 16:21.21 | prpplague | sannes: i think thats the .org site that was listed to come out at the same time as the phone |
| 16:21.46 | prpplague | the phone is suppose to retail for around $350USD right? |
| 16:22.07 | koen | prpplague: http://linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko?highlight=%28moko%29 |
| 16:22.23 | prpplague | koen: ahh thanks |
| 16:22.27 | koen | till wiki.openmoko.org goes live |
| 16:22.43 | mickey|berlin | koen: very good :( |
| 16:22.47 | mickey|berlin | sorry |
| 16:22.49 | mickey|berlin | :) |
| 16:22.49 | prpplague | koen: someone should add that to the topic |
| 16:24.59 | prpplague | so has anyone here actually got dev hardware or are most people just doing software dev at the moment on similiar hardware? |
| 16:30.10 | prpplague | koen: greetings btw |
| 16:30.14 | *** part/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-143-238-192-127.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 16:30.27 | prpplague | koen: hows the boss lady doing? |
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| 16:49.32 | koen | prpplague: doing very well |
| 16:53.15 | koen | prpplague: how's your boss lady doing? |
| 16:54.01 | prpplague | koen: hehe, good, but ready to get back to the states |
| 16:54.15 | prpplague | koen: should be coming up with the kids around the middle of feb |
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| 17:02.55 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 17:07.22 | parag0n | Is the design for the openmoko phone done yet, or is it more a framework thet can run on multiple differend phones? |
| 17:07.44 | stefan_schmidt | framework |
| 17:08.01 | stefan_schmidt | Once the code is out guys will make it fitting for other phones. |
| 17:09.56 | *** join/#openmoko cying (n=cying@75.44.226.183) |
| 17:12.47 | parag0n | It looks pretty neat |
| 17:14.45 | parag0n | VGA Screen *drool* |
| 17:15.35 | ciastek | what happend to the multouch? i have read wiki yesterday and it was there. |
| 17:16.14 | Zer0Her0_ | joys of software patents |
| 17:16.26 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh05 (n=amarsh04@CPE-138-217-209-171.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 17:16.27 | so_solid_moo | the hardware doesn't support it |
| 17:16.52 | parag0n | pity about wifi :( |
| 17:16.58 | ciastek | not nice :( |
| 17:18.49 | mitsuhiko | so_solid_moo: no? |
| 17:18.55 | mitsuhiko | i thought it was just a patent issue |
| 17:20.11 | so_solid_moo | mitsuhiko: apparently the hardware would be capable, but it isn't wired in to do multitouch and there would be driver issues too (is what I heard) |
| 17:20.23 | so_solid_moo | personally, I don't see that as being a big loss |
| 17:20.40 | leventhal | Would be very handy for maps |
| 17:21.07 | parag0n | yyou can ddrag round with your finger, and have a virtual slider down one side of the screen for zoom |
| 17:21.19 | parag0n | thats how i'd do it anyway |
| 17:21.30 | so_solid_moo | i prefer things like my touchpad, where you have sliders on the edge of the pad |
| 17:21.46 | leventhal | Yeah.. I'd like to be able to twist the map with two fingers rather than rotate it with two sliders though |
| 17:22.16 | parag0n | aye, that would be neat |
| 17:22.16 | parag0n | but why would you need to twist the map? |
| 17:22.19 | so_solid_moo | to turn it upside down, of course |
| 17:22.20 | so_solid_moo | ^_^ |
| 17:22.52 | leventhal | I like making the direction I'm going on a street point to the top |
| 17:22.58 | parag0n | turnthe phone upside down! |
| 17:23.07 | leventhal | Hard to read the text then |
| 17:23.13 | parag0n | hmm |
| 17:23.25 | leventhal | anyhow.. not a big loss |
| 17:23.28 | leventhal | still would be cool |
| 17:23.32 | parag0n | ok, i'm going to design the best single-touch map software ever |
| 17:23.36 | prpplague | leventhal: that's not good map skills, hehe |
| 17:23.46 | leventhal | prpplague: no it isn't, and my sense of direction is pitiful |
| 17:24.09 | parag0n | can you detect the movement of a finger on a normal touchscreen? |
| 17:24.16 | leventhal | but its led to me finding a lot of good bars through serendipity |
| 17:27.31 | parag0n | hmm, are there *no* wifi chipsets that are fully open source? |
| 17:28.09 | prpplague | parag0n: not a one |
| 17:28.12 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-138-217-209-171.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 17:28.20 | Sencer | parag0n: apparently yes, at least when it comes to embedded (low-power) chips. Lots of discussion on the mailing list in the past weeks |
| 17:28.26 | leventhal | not even atmel? |
| 17:29.12 | prpplague | leventhal: if there is one, no one has found it yet |
| 17:29.40 | prpplague | the most work is going into marvell's chipsets due to it's usage in the OLPC project |
| 17:30.17 | parag0n | thats a pity. What about orinoco? too high power, or am i missing something? |
| 17:30.41 | parag0n | looking down the ideas list... i want one of these so much! |
| 17:31.35 | mitsuhiko | so_solid_moo_: for me it's a loss |
| 17:31.49 | mitsuhiko | multitouch is something i am/was really looking forward too |
| 17:32.38 | Tv | mitsuhiko: remember how the touchscreen vendor said that it's a *driver* issue |
| 17:32.50 | Tv | mitsuhiko: get cranking, find the chipset, find the docs, .. |
| 17:32.59 | mitsuhiko | Tv: if it's just a driver issue we can fix that |
| 17:33.15 | parag0n | so is the touchscreen actuelly capable of multitouch? |
| 17:33.20 | Tv | read the mailing list |
| 17:33.42 | parag0n | hate mailing lists :'( |
| 17:34.12 | Tv | yes, pointless jibba-jabba on irc is much more useful |
| 17:34.25 | parag0n | hells yeah ;) |
| 17:34.33 | leventhal | much better for sapping my work productivity |
| 17:34.33 | parag0n | well, i prefer forums, but you know ;) |
| 17:34.39 | parag0n | or a wikikiki |
| 17:35.28 | *** join/#openmoko kabturek (n=kabturek@lomza2.lom.vectranet.pl) |
| 17:35.29 | mitsuhiko | Tv: i don't find the mail |
| 17:35.32 | mitsuhiko | *can't |
| 17:35.48 | kabturek | hello openmokos ;) |
| 17:36.03 | Zer0Her0_ | i'm with parag0n |
| 17:36.16 | Sencer | mitsuhiko: download the tar.gz and grep |
| 17:37.32 | Tv | http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.openmoko.general/581/match=driver+touch |
| 17:37.35 | Tv | so fscking hard |
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| 18:14.54 | jthomas | Tv: so the multitouch images posted here aren't going to be implemented? http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/fics-linuxbased-smartphone-213016.php |
| 18:15.12 | Tv | jthomas: did you read the email? |
| 18:16.36 | jthomas | yeah :( |
| 18:16.56 | jthomas | just wondering if there has been any changes to that line of thinking |
| 18:17.42 | Tv | somebody needs to look at the driver first |
| 18:17.51 | Tv | see if it can be done with neo v1 hardware or not |
| 18:18.15 | Tv | instead, people just do drive by wishing |
| 18:20.06 | prpplague | i've done several designs with the s3c2410 and have not seen any support for multitouch |
| 18:20.14 | koen | both tslib and x can't handle multitouch (yet) |
| 18:20.33 | Sencer | Tv: well, it means that the device it getting more and more mainstream attention. ;) |
| 18:21.12 | koen | more importantly the hardware doesn't support it |
| 18:21.45 | Tv | koen: the email I linked sort of leaves that open |
| 18:21.51 | Tv | and claims to be a statement from the vendor |
| 18:22.44 | koen | that's an old email |
| 18:23.10 | koen | FIC employees have stated later the neo hardware doesn't support it |
| 18:23.19 | koen | even if the panel might |
| 18:23.22 | Tv | ah |
| 18:23.39 | koen | hence the note in the topic |
| 18:24.17 | Tv | koen: there are levels of "no" here |
| 18:24.33 | Tv | the "no" I was looking for was "not out of the box, not easily, but maybe" |
| 18:24.40 | Tv | the "no" you've offering is a "hardware no" |
| 18:25.22 | mickey|berlin | the gizmodo source is misinformed. they merged stuff from different products. |
| 18:25.29 | kabturek | hardwar no are a no god 'no' ;) |
| 18:27.05 | koen | mickey|berlin: could you whisper 'gstreamer' in sean's ear a few times? |
| 18:27.13 | kabturek | man this keybord sucks .. s/hardwar/hardware s/god/good ;) |
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| 18:47.11 | parag0n | i've been sat here, vibrating, with my credit card in my hand since i found out about openmoko earlier today |
| 18:47.36 | rboehme | join the club |
| 18:47.37 | leventhal | ease back on the caffeine |
| 18:47.49 | parag0n | i dont drink caffiene |
| 18:47.58 | parag0n | hmm, maybe thats the problem... |
| 18:47.59 | leventhal | well. um. try valium. |
| 18:50.12 | spikebik1 | heh |
| 18:50.19 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p85.212.184.235.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 18:50.26 | spikebik1 | crap I thought there was some news today |
| 18:51.17 | rob_w | what is a multitouch ?? |
| 18:51.32 | ciastek | :> |
| 18:51.53 | parag0n | where a touchpad can detect two or more fingers touching it at once |
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| 18:56.35 | rob_w | ah that |
| 18:57.09 | rob_w | hmm thats interesting .. quite a feature for a phone i think, normally only industrial thingi |
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| 19:01.19 | Melkman | multitouch seems to need a special touchscreen, see http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ftirsense/ and so prolly won't be doable on the neo |
| 19:04.27 | xkr47 | maybe some emulation.. |
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| 19:11.30 | nyc_ktm | nothing to see here? |
| 19:14.10 | nyc_ktm | I was hoping to gain some insight into Neo1973.... |
| 19:17.02 | mickey|berlin | what do you want to know? ask the right questions and I may answer three of them before continuing to work :) |
| 19:20.07 | WilldRover | Answer me these questions 3! |
| 19:21.11 | Zer0Her0_ | haha |
| 19:22.15 | mickey|berlin | heh |
| 19:26.30 | Sencer | what is the sound of one hand clapping? |
| 19:26.37 | cbpage | :) can gprs and voice run simultaneously? |
| 19:26.40 | cbpage | and what class gprs is it? |
| 19:26.48 | nyc_ktm | ha. |
| 19:26.49 | nyc_ktm | ok |
| 19:26.57 | nyc_ktm | my biggest question is about a keyboard interface |
| 19:27.13 | nyc_ktm | assuming it is on the screen? touch based? |
| 19:27.22 | cbpage | yeah it'd have to be - that or bluetooth |
| 19:27.27 | cbpage | you could also do something t-9 like |
| 19:28.28 | ciastek | can i use bluetooth headphones to listen to the music? |
| 19:28.36 | nyc_ktm | bluetooth would not be good. for me at least. want mobile-ness (??) and keyboard...treo-ish but with a usable keyboard for those of us with larger fingers. :) |
| 19:29.00 | Zer0Her0_ | is t-9 licensable? i know goes against open philosophy but alot of friends are fast with it. |
| 19:29.26 | cbpage | who owns t9? |
| 19:29.49 | nyc_ktm | what is t9? |
| 19:30.01 | mitsuhiko | cbpage: nokia? |
| 19:30.23 | mitsuhiko | nyc_ktm: text input for retarded |
| 19:30.27 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@unaffiliated/ninher) |
| 19:30.34 | nyc_ktm | ha. ok. |
| 19:30.45 | kabturek | lol |
| 19:31.18 | mitsuhiko | cbpage: tegic |
| 19:31.28 | mitsuhiko | according to wikipedia |
| 19:31.34 | ciastek | google says that tegic comm owns t9 |
| 19:32.14 | nyc_ktm | so is there currently no keyboard interface at this point? meaning, no way to type ON the device? |
| 19:32.57 | mickey|berlin | yeah. early access release will use a simple on-screen keyboard that can be shown/hidden using a panel applet |
| 19:33.02 | ciastek | and its great, because keyboards not good. at least steve says that... |
| 19:33.12 | mickey|berlin | BT keyboard is on the agenda |
| 19:33.48 | nyc_ktm | ha. nice |
| 19:33.58 | ciastek | specification says that there are two hardware buttons. i assume that one of theme is power button. and the second one? |
| 19:34.17 | nyc_ktm | at what point will others get to see what this thing will do? |
| 19:34.59 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:35.01 | kabturek | the second one is just like an ordinary one but is used for the whole alphabet :) you pres it 8 times for an "i" ;) |
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| 19:35.32 | ciastek | :D |
| 19:35.41 | mitsuhiko | kabturek: wrong |
| 19:35.52 | mitsuhiko | the first button is used to shift one bit |
| 19:35.56 | mitsuhiko | the second to unshift one |
| 19:36.07 | kabturek | but it will probably use t9 to know what you wanted to write ;) |
| 19:36.10 | mitsuhiko | hold both buttons to go to the next char |
| 19:36.15 | kabturek | hehe |
| 19:36.18 | ciastek | mitsuhiko, is it something like undo-redo? |
| 19:36.29 | mitsuhiko | ciastek: no. more like brainfuck |
| 19:36.39 | mitsuhiko | </joke> |
| 19:36.51 | mitsuhiko | i have no idea what the two buttons are for :) |
| 19:39.39 | mickey|berlin | power button |
| 19:39.45 | mickey|berlin | dialer button |
| 19:39.56 | mickey|berlin | both featuring one tap action |
| 19:40.00 | mickey|berlin | and one tap-and-hold action |
| 19:41.13 | koen | ugh |
| 19:41.29 | koen | short-press long-press is a horrible UI |
| 19:41.45 | koen | the "press start to shutdown" for handhelds |
| 19:42.39 | ciastek | what does 1973 stands for? :] |
| 19:42.52 | koen | the price for v2 ;) |
| 19:43.20 | mickey|berlin | hehehe |
| 19:44.01 | mickey|berlin | right |
| 19:44.04 | marcellus | yen |
| 19:44.12 | mickey|berlin | EUR |
| 19:44.20 | koen | gbp! |
| 19:44.37 | marcellus | lbs! |
| 19:44.37 | thresh_ | rur |
| 19:44.44 | koen | no, 1973 bottles of Leffe Brun |
| 19:45.01 | mitsuhiko | ciastek: the year the mobile phone was invented |
| 19:45.07 | Sencer | 1973 years of linux |
| 19:45.08 | mickey|berlin | the amount of bottles to drink before v2 will see the light of day |
| 19:45.12 | mitsuhiko | Sencer: ??? |
| 19:45.22 | buz | yikes |
| 19:45.24 | Sencer | the romans invented it IIRC |
| 19:45.25 | buz | i wont buy leffe |
| 19:46.12 | marcellus | I would, if I got WiFi and a card slot. |
| 19:46.25 | ciastek | mitsuhiko, wiki says none about that |
| 19:46.49 | ericthefish | ciastek: 1973 was the year of the first mobile phone call |
| 19:46.50 | buz | dark beer is waste of the ingredients |
| 19:47.45 | buz | thats even worse |
| 19:47.54 | ciastek | hehe, and not 1946? http://www.corp.att.com/attlabs/reputation/timeline/46mobile.html |
| 19:48.15 | mitsuhiko | .oO( r2 will be called 1984 then ) |
| 19:48.41 | mitsuhiko | and the first one who mentions that that was the year the mac was introduced gets kicked! |
| 19:48.46 | philippe | buz: pilsener beer is a waste of water |
| 19:48.53 | cbpage | nope, 1984 is taken by iPhone already |
| 19:48.54 | mitsuhiko | .oO( i don't have op rights here... ) |
| 19:48.58 | marcellus | waste water? |
| 19:49.01 | marcellus | :D |
| 19:49.06 | buz | mhh i prefer unfiltered |
| 19:49.16 | buz | or wheat beer |
| 19:49.44 | WilldRover | Is it a coincidence that the iphone looks so much like the Neo 1973? |
| 19:49.54 | ciastek | mitsuhiko, why 1984? |
| 19:49.55 | marcellus | Does it? |
| 19:50.03 | kabturek | v2 - 1984 couse the users will be watched by the big brother :) |
| 19:50.15 | ciastek | :D |
| 19:50.16 | mitsuhiko | WilldRover: is it coincidence that the iphone supports multitouch? |
| 19:50.31 | mitsuhiko | kabturek: v2 of the microsoft phone? |
| 19:50.33 | ericthefish | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_mobile_phones see the bit about Dr. Martin Cooper |
| 19:50.34 | mitsuhiko | guess i missed the v1 |
| 19:50.44 | koen | hey philippe |
| 19:51.00 | Sencer | don't basically all wince phones look as much like the iphone as the Neo1973? |
| 19:51.27 | Sencer | wince ~ windows mobile |
| 19:51.44 | ciastek | ericthefish, thank you |
| 19:51.52 | ericthefish | size and weight are all that matter to me really, don't care what it looks like it'll spend most of it's time in my pocket |
| 19:51.53 | buz | mhh there are a few special winmob |
| 19:52.04 | ciastek | i lake meaningful names :] |
| 19:52.12 | buz | well i'd still prefer it not to be pink |
| 19:52.28 | buz | tho if it came with wifi, i might just bought pink edition ;) |
| 19:52.58 | ericthefish | heh I'm with you there |
| 20:06.40 | mickey|berlin | wifi is overrated :D |
| 20:09.17 | kabturek | im not falling on this one ;) |
| 20:09.30 | *** join/#openmoko pike_ (i=pike@server1.freeshells.ch) |
| 20:11.44 | mitsuhiko | mickey|berlin: hmm. tell that my wii and nintendo ds |
| 20:12.05 | koen | nintendos are overrated |
| 20:12.32 | Demitar | The bluetooth however was is a real boon. :) |
| 20:12.44 | Demitar | s/was // |
| 20:13.05 | stefan_schmidt | koen: wii is cool. But wifi is only used for internet access. They use bt for controller. And internet is overrated, which brings us back to wifi is overrated. ;) |
| 20:14.01 | nyc_ktm | so...again...when might we actually know what this device will do? be able to see it doing something? :) |
| 20:14.55 | xkr47 | to extend the internets |
| 20:14.55 | xkr47 | ;) |
| 20:15.02 | stefan_schmidt | koen: No idea. |
| 20:15.03 | kabturek | koen, hmm i used mine for internet access :) |
| 20:15.10 | mitsuhiko | xkr47: using tubes? |
| 20:15.26 | koen | especially since a wii is near a tv, which has a zillion cables already |
| 20:15.32 | leventhal | looks neater than having wires held to walls and less effort than running cables through cielings and walls |
| 20:16.06 | stefan_schmidt | nyc_ktm: What do mean with waht the device will do? It's a phone |
| 20:16.37 | kabturek | you know the standard - antenna outside the window, wardriving , free internet ... ;) |
| 20:17.03 | nyc_ktm | so...you are saying this is NOT something I can replace a treo/bb/whatever with? |
| 20:17.18 | nyc_ktm | in terms of inet connections and doing things other than talking? |
| 20:17.56 | stefan_schmidt | nyc_ktm: Of course you can use it as PDA, too. Music player should even work. Not sure about video. |
| 20:18.14 | stefan_schmidt | nyc_ktm: Internet over gprs, bluetooth or usb. |
| 20:18.20 | nyc_ktm | I'm more interesting in things like, being able to ssh to my boxes if need be and being able to pop email from a server |
| 20:18.31 | nyc_ktm | (hence my keyboard questions) |
| 20:18.42 | nyc_ktm | :) |
| 20:19.18 | stefan_schmidt | nyc_ktm: It's linux, why it should not work? But the first phones will have a bare software setup. |
| 20:19.35 | stefan_schmidt | nyc_ktm: Anyway, you can add all the apps you like. |
| 20:19.55 | nyc_ktm | stefan_sch: understood. I guess I should be asking how 'bare' it will be for v1 |
| 20:20.40 | stefan_schmidt | nyc_ktm: dialer, sms, contacts and app manager. Something like this. |
| 20:21.04 | nyc_ktm | cool. |
| 20:21.39 | nyc_ktm | www.openmoko.com is a little sparse...where will soeone be able to purchcase one when it is available? |
| 20:22.03 | stefan_schmidt | nyc_ktm: The most work is done in the framework for gsmlibrary, widgets framework and stuff |
| 20:22.29 | stefan_schmidt | nyc_ktm: Subscribe to announce ml or poll the website. |
| 20:22.40 | nyc_ktm | already ahve. :) |
| 20:22.44 | ciastek | what about bluetooth headphones? |
| 20:23.13 | stefan_schmidt | nyc_ktm: Then you have done everything to get the official announcements. |
| 20:23.26 | nyc_ktm | :) cool. thanks |
| 20:23.43 | stefan_schmidt | ciastek: No idea. I guess normal headphone should work. No Idea about stereo. |
| 20:23.59 | kabturek | so it will have the usuall mini jack ? |
| 20:24.11 | ciastek | kabturek, afaik there is no jack connector |
| 20:24.33 | stefan_schmidt | kabturek: You mean 3,5mm headphone jack? |
| 20:24.40 | kabturek | stefan_schmidt, yes |
| 20:24.59 | stefan_schmidt | kabturek: I heard about a 2,5mm version. Standard for cellphones. |
| 20:25.31 | kabturek | stefan_schmidt, will do :) |
| 20:26.17 | stefan_schmidt | kabturek: It's in the primary spec: http://openmoko.com/press/index.html#preliminary_specification |
| 20:27.10 | ciastek | nice |
| 20:27.16 | kabturek | stefan_schmidt, oh yeah i must have missed that , thx |
| 20:27.49 | ciastek | but why usb1? :( |
| 20:28.28 | stefan_schmidt | ciastek: The Chip only offers usb1 |
| 20:28.34 | ciastek | ok! :] |
| 20:29.22 | kabturek | the memory card will be hot swapable ? |
| 20:29.28 | mjr | it won't |
| 20:30.01 | stefan_schmidt | kabturek: The card is under the battery |
| 20:30.40 | ciastek | everything is better than 3,5mb in my 7650 :> |
| 20:34.22 | Laibsch | mitsuhiko: re your nick. Interested in Japanese? |
| 20:35.19 | *** join/#openmoko Crankymonky (n=dean@c-69-138-172-103.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:35.30 | *** part/#openmoko Crankymonky (n=dean@c-69-138-172-103.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:35.55 | mitsuhiko | Laibsch: haha, why the question? |
| 20:36.05 | mitsuhiko | maybe i would be interested but i have no time to learn another language :) |
| 20:37.40 | Laibsch | mitsuhiko: mitsuhiko is Japanese name. I guess you are into Manga, then? |
| 20:38.01 | xorAxAx | Laibsch: hi, he is only reading hentai :) |
| 20:38.23 | kabturek | gits rocks :) |
| 20:38.25 | mitsuhiko | Laibsch: yeah. i was two years ago |
| 20:38.26 | *** join/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R0545.r.pppool.de) |
| 20:38.42 | *** part/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R0545.r.pppool.de) |
| 20:39.04 | mitsuhiko | I've chosen that nick after one of the characters in meitantei konan |
| 20:39.19 | xorAxAx | mitsuhiko: what is it about? :) |
| 20:39.31 | *** join/#openmoko _ASK (n=chatzill@189.146.143.56) |
| 20:39.38 | _ASK | hi |
| 20:39.40 | mitsuhiko | xorAxAx: a detective who was morphed into a 8 year old kid |
| 20:39.40 | buz | so implementing wifi in neo would cost >150$ |
| 20:39.44 | buz | i sure dont believe that |
| 20:40.04 | xorAxAx | buz: it would cost more than that :) |
| 20:40.16 | buz | per shipped phone |
| 20:40.18 | xorAxAx | buz: hehe |
| 20:40.31 | buz | " |
| 20:40.31 | buz | . This is |
| 20:40.31 | buz | the _only_ way I could sell a device in the sub-$500 range. |
| 20:40.31 | _ASK | does someone know the actual specifications of the phone? |
| 20:41.05 | *** join/#openmoko incinerator (n=sabine@82-41-24-164.cable.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:41.09 | mitsuhiko | _ASK: on the ml |
| 20:41.22 | _ASK | ml? |
| 20:41.31 | _ASK | mailing list? |
| 20:41.41 | stefan_schmidt | _ASK: It's still: http://openmoko.com/press/index.html#preliminary_specification + bluetooth |
| 20:42.11 | _ASK | no wifi... |
| 20:42.11 | mitsuhiko | _ASK: yes |
| 20:42.51 | jjazz | _ASK: There's more up-to-date spec info at http://lwn.net/Articles/217020/ |
| 20:42.55 | jjazz | _ASK: But no wifi |
| 20:43.59 | Sencer | buz: it has been said that the cost is so low, because the "same" device is being manufactured in high numbers for other customers (running windows mobile IIRC). Maybe that's why adding wifi would have been so expensive. |
| 20:43.59 | _ASK | i have a treo 650 right now; i don't really have complaints about it; when i saw the idea for an open phone i thought it was great, but the actual phone doesn't convince me... |
| 20:44.04 | buz | Sencer: i know that |
| 20:44.18 | buz | but i also know that you can build pcb without actually using all the features in every model you ship... |
| 20:44.33 | _ASK | for example, the Treo has a built in keyboard, which saves you for putting stress on the touchscreen all the time |
| 20:44.44 | buz | _ASK: touch screens are really durable |
| 20:44.54 | buz | my 3 year old p900 only recently started to act up |
| 20:45.06 | buz | which is much better than most keypad based phones |
| 20:45.14 | _ASK | yeah, but you are saying it yourself |
| 20:45.21 | Sencer | I second that |
| 20:45.44 | jjazz | _ASK: The advantage to the keyboard is faster input, not durability. The problem with keyboards is that they take up space (i.e. the Treo has a small screen) and they're expensive. So it's a tradeoff. |
| 20:46.01 | _ASK | that's for sure |
| 20:46.01 | jjazz | _ASK: I'd like a keyboard too, but I'm not sure where on the device they could put it. |
| 20:46.17 | _ASK | i'm seeing VGA screen... sounds a tradeoff for keyboard |
| 20:46.37 | _ASK | but 640x480 is really a gorgous resolution for a phone... |
| 20:47.09 | mitsuhiko | jjazz: on screen keyboard |
| 20:47.12 | _ASK | that's what my first computer monitor had =) |
| 20:47.32 | jjazz | mitsuhiko: It won't be as fast a thumboard. |
| 20:47.49 | Sencer | yeah, high resolution, but the screen size is still somewhat smaller than on a p900. |
| 20:47.57 | _ASK | and again, you always risk damaging it. |
| 20:48.03 | mitsuhiko | jjazz: that's true |
| 20:48.27 | mitsuhiko | if they would remove those strange handles on the top and bottom of the neo, they could add one |
| 20:48.33 | jjazz | _ASK: Don't you always risk damaging *any* screen? I don't see how lack of a keyboard leads to more screen damage risk. |
| 20:48.35 | _ASK | by the way, there is plenty of space both on top and bottom |
| 20:49.00 | _ASK | have you ever dissasembled a pocket pc? |
| 20:49.10 | Sencer | it's not plenty for a qwerty keyboard |
| 20:49.18 | jjazz | _ASK: I've taken apart the Treo and various older palms, but not a pocket pc |
| 20:49.33 | _ASK | there is the TFT screen and over it an extremelly thin touch panel |
| 20:50.04 | jjazz | _ASK: Have you ever had one go bad during normal use? |
| 20:50.09 | _ASK | yes |
| 20:50.14 | buz | define normal use |
| 20:50.26 | _ASK | it's the reason why i bought the treo |
| 20:50.29 | jjazz | I've been using touch screen pocket devices for a long time and never had the touchscreen be the thing that dies. |
| 20:50.45 | Sencer | on both of my p900 the keypad went bad, and the touchpads kept working (after being dropped a few times) |
| 20:50.52 | jjazz | buz: Normal use means stabbing the thing repeatedly with a sledgehammer. :P |
| 20:50.59 | buz | the p900 screen even survives the common breaking of its horribly badly engineered frame |
| 20:51.06 | _ASK | hahahaha |
| 20:51.15 | _ASK | well, i don't know if i just had bad luck |
| 20:51.15 | prpplague | greentux: ralink is "open" only if you aren't an oem |
| 20:51.19 | yacc | greentux: is it open and power saving? |
| 20:51.21 | _ASK | but mine stopped working |
| 20:51.35 | buz | touchscreen is well understood |
| 20:51.42 | buz | any halfway decent asian phone has one |
| 20:52.08 | greentux | ralink has open drivers as far as I know. no closed binary blobs etc |
| 20:52.09 | jjazz | _ASK: Well, obviously *some* will fail. It's a question of how many per thousand. Touchscreens are considered pretty durable. |
| 20:52.11 | buz | i had actually been wondering for a hwile why the ipod didnt simply go towards touchscreen |
| 20:52.24 | *** part/#openmoko WilldRover (n=ceuric01@dpc6747181121.direcpc.com) |
| 20:52.26 | jjazz | buz: Because you have to look at a touch screen to use it. |
| 20:52.33 | buz | na |
| 20:52.42 | buz | you could easily do the ipod interface on a touchscreen |
| 20:52.58 | ciastek | so you say, that touchscreen is less expensive that keyboard? |
| 20:53.02 | _ASK | well, whatever, i think there is enough space to built a phone very much like the treo |
| 20:53.12 | jjazz | buz: What about no-look volume adjustments and track skipping? What about sticking it in your pocket while running and it bounces around generating touches? |
| 20:53.26 | _ASK | if you look at the pictures they waster quite a bit of space both on top and bottom |
| 20:53.26 | jjazz | ciastek: generally, yes |
| 20:53.33 | buz | capacitive touchscreen (same thing goes for the touchwheel) |
| 20:53.50 | buz | (and furthermore, the shuffle has a normal button thingy which enver did anything it wasnt told for me) |
| 20:54.09 | buz | jjazz: as for commands, switch to gestures instead of buttons |
| 20:54.21 | buz | anyone should be able to remember 5 gestures |
| 20:54.33 | jjazz | buz: I admit I've never touched an ipod, but I mechanical controls. |
| 20:54.47 | ciastek | gestures sounds great |
| 20:54.57 | noidd | we'ew going to have our work cut out beating iPhone at its own game |
| 20:54.58 | _ASK | by the way, i thought the treo screen had a diminute dot pitch already, how are you going to handle the VGA one? |
| 20:54.59 | buz | the mechanical ipods are said to have suffered of dirt invasion rather quickly |
| 20:54.59 | jjazz | I *prefer*, even |
| 20:55.08 | noidd | out-perty apple |
| 20:55.10 | noidd | heh, |
| 20:55.11 | buz | more dpi==better |
| 20:55.22 | _ASK | well, if you have an scalable UI |
| 20:55.28 | buz | dpi is one of the things you cant have too many of |
| 20:55.32 | *** join/#openmoko myren (n=myren@63.231.83.177) |
| 20:55.34 | _ASK | because, on the treo, the smallest text on documents to go is barely readable |
| 20:55.49 | kabturek | touch wheel rocks , so say i ;) |
| 20:55.52 | ciastek | of course touchscreen have to be operated with stylus? |
| 20:55.58 | buz | ciastek: no |
| 20:56.01 | _ASK | no |
| 20:56.04 | buz | they work with fingers in general |
| 20:56.06 | ciastek | wow! |
| 20:56.08 | _ASK | you can use your finger |
| 20:56.12 | ciastek | great! :] |
| 20:56.14 | buz | (except for the tablet pc ones, but there it's a good thing) |
| 20:56.16 | jjazz | noidd: Apple is going to spend a lot of money creating a market for devices like these. The Moko doesn't have to be the next ipod to be a success. And with more software and lower costs, it will compete. Hopefully, it will win for stability too. |
| 20:56.19 | _ASK | altough i recommend not using your pocket knife. |
| 20:56.23 | buz | means you can rest your hand on the screen |
| 20:56.42 | buz | not that i ever use my tablet pc as tablet |
| 20:56.43 | noidd | I'm looking at my own definition of success. |
| 20:56.47 | jjazz | _ASK: Yes, you use a sledgehammer. Hence all your touchscreen troubles. |
| 20:56.57 | *** part/#openmoko nyc_ktm (n=nyc_ktm@burf.corp.bitshelter.com) |
| 20:57.01 | noidd | I want my local iPhone owning fanbois to crave my openmoko |
| 20:57.05 | _ASK | nah, i take care of my phones really well |
| 20:57.23 | _ASK | the first phone i had lasted me 5 years and i dropped it because some keys started to fail |
| 20:57.26 | noidd | I wonder how these phones will stand up to being dropped on concrete :-) |
| 20:57.31 | _ASK | never dropped it, not even once. |
| 20:57.33 | buz | my saphire watch glass still is unscratched after 7 years |
| 20:57.41 | buz | noidd: my p900 fell plenty times |
| 20:57.44 | buz | didnt hurt it |
| 20:58.01 | noidd | my treo, blackberry and other misc phones all bounced tens of times |
| 20:58.09 | noidd | my Zaurus 5000 and c750 |
| 20:58.10 | _ASK | i've never dropped the treo in more than a year, it still looks new. |
| 20:58.11 | buz | now as for that sony phone i jumbed into the lake wiht, that's a different story really |
| 20:58.11 | noidd | all bounce |
| 20:58.17 | jjazz | I don't drop things. |
| 20:58.36 | buz | if you drop things, add silicone skin |
| 20:58.42 | buz | (i call the things device condoms) |
| 20:58.49 | noidd | over a touchscreen? |
| 20:58.54 | buz | around it |
| 20:58.58 | _ASK | they are made so you can use the screen |
| 20:59.08 | buz | unless you drop the thing onto an edge, the touchscreen will be fine |
| 20:59.22 | buz | it's not like it protrudes from the case |
| 21:00.03 | kabturek | if you drop things use some kind of neck strap etc :) |
| 21:00.09 | buz | mhh fic finally links to openmoko |
| 21:00.12 | buz | i guess thats a good thing |
| 21:00.13 | jjazz | kabturek: And wear a helmet. |
| 21:00.52 | *** join/#openmoko myren__ (n=myren@63.231.83.177) |
| 21:01.21 | _ASK | i'm going to buy one only if they make something with keyboard and wifi. |
| 21:01.51 | buz | mhh you could try convinve tech faith wireless to put linux on their phone |
| 21:01.54 | Sencer | _ASK: as has been stated, the main target group currently developers |
| 21:02.10 | Zer0Her0_ | did they drop wifi? |
| 21:02.10 | _ASK | yeah, that's what i thought |
| 21:02.23 | buz | Zer0Her0_: there nevewas wifi |
| 21:02.25 | xkr47 | Sencer, so much better chances for me to get one ;) |
| 21:02.31 | Zer0Her0_ | oh :( |
| 21:02.32 | Zer0Her0_ | boo |
| 21:02.36 | _ASK | i just hope they don't lower the resolution on future models |
| 21:02.46 | xkr47 | 640x480 sounds nice |
| 21:02.47 | jjazz | _ASK: I'd be surprised if they went in that direction. |
| 21:03.17 | xkr47 | I can either have 80x49 or 106x36 with a 6x13 font :) |
| 21:03.17 | prpplague | do any of the FIC people show up in here? |
| 21:03.18 | _ASK | one question |
| 21:03.29 | _ASK | for those who know the details about such platforms |
| 21:03.47 | ciastek | no keyboard is fine |
| 21:03.48 | _ASK | persistent memory is done by hardware or software? i thought dynamic heap on palms was software |
| 21:03.57 | jjazz | prpplague: They're aware of the channel. Haven't seen anybody from FIC pipe up, though. |
| 21:04.35 | _ASK | either that or they don't say it openly |
| 21:04.41 | buz | jjazz: there are a few devs around, occasionaly |
| 21:05.10 | buz | but i guess we should be happy that they work on developping instead of wasting time on irc as we dod |
| 21:05.16 | jjazz | buz: I've never spoken to any that I'm aware of, but then I drop in only sporadically. |
| 21:06.31 | _ASK | 128MB of RAM |
| 21:06.34 | _ASK | that sounds good. |
| 21:07.14 | prpplague | jjazz: ahh ok |
| 21:08.03 | Zer0Her0_ | where does one find the source code? |
| 21:08.07 | buz | no where |
| 21:08.16 | buz | itll be released when the hardware is ready |
| 21:08.33 | Zer0Her0_ | ah |
| 21:09.21 | buz | mhh eten is supposedly building 3G wifi qwerty sliders with VGA screen |
| 21:09.55 | jjazz | buz: Does it run linux? |
| 21:10.00 | buz | winmobile |
| 21:10.28 | buz | now maybe if fic sells enough neos, eten could possible be convinced to port linux to their phoens? |
| 21:10.35 | buz | (HTC is a lost cause) |
| 21:10.47 | _ASK | sliders wear out. |
| 21:10.57 | _ASK | mechanical stress is bad. |
| 21:11.07 | buz | says he who wants a keypad |
| 21:11.24 | _ASK | yeah, mechanical stress on the screen is bad also. |
| 21:11.30 | buz | qwerty slider is the only way to get reasonably sized keyboard on a phone |
| 21:11.37 | jjazz | buz: clamshell? |
| 21:11.41 | _ASK | Treo's keyboard is usable |
| 21:11.51 | buz | usable!=good |
| 21:13.12 | _ASK | the best design i've seen is the motorola A780 |
| 21:13.41 | _ASK | except that it still has phone keys instead of a full keyboard |
| 21:13.43 | pike_ | virtual keyboard. red laser projected on desk built into phone would be nice |
| 21:13.51 | *** join/#openmoko lightyear (n=lightyea@p5487758D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:14.23 | *** part/#openmoko noidd (n=red@thievery.criticalintegration.com) |
| 21:14.26 | _ASK | it is clamshell, which protects the delicate screen (no need for a case) |
| 21:14.43 | _ASK | you can use it as a regular phone when not using the PDA |
| 21:15.04 | _ASK | something like fast tap would be great... |
| 21:15.18 | kabturek | oh i think that you people need an |
| 21:15.20 | kabturek | PDA |
| 21:15.36 | kabturek | its a phone :) its main usage is phoning |
| 21:15.49 | koen | otherwise it's a phony phone |
| 21:15.50 | _ASK | you say that because you don't have a treo |
| 21:15.51 | buz | not for me |
| 21:15.53 | kabturek | and its great that it will have linux and stuff so it will be enhancable |
| 21:16.11 | *** join/#openmoko matjan (n=matjan@216-154-18-113.dsl.look.ca) |
| 21:16.45 | kabturek | for me it will be a great phone ... if i woulg like to ssh to my server i would by mysel a umpc etc |
| 21:16.46 | _ASK | i always wanted a PDA, but it was carrying the phone and the PDA at the same time |
| 21:16.48 | _ASK | charging both devices |
| 21:16.52 | _ASK | etc |
| 21:16.57 | _ASK | too much maintanance |
| 21:18.06 | _ASK | on the treo you can use it all the day like a phone |
| 21:18.18 | _ASK | and then use it as a PDA at any time, without having to do anything |
| 21:18.28 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-124-175-20.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 21:18.55 | kabturek | i think that it will be great because it will be possible to expand it - and write stuff , it will allow writing apps that will do the thing that you need ssh to do ;) |
| 21:19.08 | kabturek | _ASK, i think you must wait for the v2 then :) |
| 21:19.39 | _ASK | but it's not a tooy for geeks |
| 21:19.39 | _ASK | it's a PDA phone |
| 21:19.39 | kabturek | or v3 - dont know which will be the 'beast' ;) |
| 21:19.49 | _ASK | if they intend to reach anything, they will have to start thinking on usability |
| 21:20.01 | kabturek | v1 is a toy for geeks / developers imo |
| 21:20.21 | kabturek | im not saying that ordinary people wont know how to use it :) |
| 21:20.25 | _ASK | make the phone the smallest and lightest possible, integrating lots of connectivity, ergonomics and input methods, i don't know |
| 21:20.38 | _ASK | everything that makes a phone that you can slip into your pocket and forget about |
| 21:20.56 | kabturek | yeah ... definitly v.3 ;) |
| 21:21.01 | _ASK | =) |
| 21:21.05 | ciastek | i cant wait to play with neo |
| 21:21.15 | ciastek | to _play_, not to call with it :] |
| 21:21.24 | kabturek | ciastek, no kidding ? ;) |
| 21:21.33 | mjr | of course, a phone's not for calling |
| 21:21.36 | mjr | it's for ircing |
| 21:21.41 | ciastek | :D |
| 21:21.43 | *** join/#openmoko jtokash (n=jtokash@c-24-5-0-4.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:21.48 | xkr47 | yeah |
| 21:21.56 | xkr47 | I heard there are two buttons only on the phone |
| 21:22.11 | xkr47 | I guess is "open #openmoko support channel fullscreen" |
| 21:22.11 | buz | that's ok |
| 21:22.24 | xkr47 | I guess one is* |
| 21:22.24 | buz | you can type binary |
| 21:22.25 | kabturek | yeah and no mic ;) who wants to call ? ;) |
| 21:22.25 | mjr | that is a bit suboptimal, I'm thinking bluetooth keyboards |
| 21:22.28 | mjr | (bluetooth!) |
| 21:22.29 | xkr47 | you only need one button to type binary :) |
| 21:22.39 | mjr | well yes, one will need a morse code input |
| 21:22.43 | _ASK | and to carry a full keyboard whereever you go. |
| 21:22.51 | mjr | (I happen to know morse code, even ;) |
| 21:22.52 | Sencer | am I the only one who gets constantly reminded of the Simpson episode where Homer met his brother and designed "The Homer" car for the average american? |
| 21:23.05 | _ASK | hahaha |
| 21:23.09 | _ASK | i remember that one |
| 21:23.17 | xkr47 | mjr, - - - · · · · · · |
| 21:23.23 | xkr47 | :) |
| 21:24.16 | _ASK | since it's open source it could be implemented a speech recognition |
| 21:24.39 | xkr47 | _ASK, yeah.. "you sound too drunk.. phone access denied" |
| 21:24.51 | xkr47 | and then when you read the system log in the morning you think "thank god" |
| 21:24.51 | _ASK | yeah, as a safety rule =) |
| 21:25.26 | *** join/#openmoko myren (n=myren@63.231.83.177) |
| 21:25.26 | kabturek | hehe |
| 21:25.31 | _ASK | i saw some time ago an experiment in an university of Germany |
| 21:25.32 | buz | mhh if it could stop me from sending drunken sms. now that would be a feature |
| 21:25.35 | xkr47 | time for some food -> |
| 21:25.42 | _ASK | that they had developed a system which followed the movement of the eyes |
| 21:25.44 | kabturek | buz, ++ |
| 21:25.54 | _ASK | there is a loox model which as a camera on top of the phone |
| 21:26.04 | _ASK | i was wondering if your could point by just looking. |
| 21:26.13 | buz | irc'ing drunk is fine |
| 21:26.21 | buz | it's not like anyone actually cares what you say ;) |
| 21:26.25 | *** join/#openmoko basti (n=chatzill@p57A0C8B6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:26.33 | kabturek | _ASK, hmm but how the dman thing know when i want to click ? |
| 21:26.46 | _ASK | it doesn't guess, it has a button :P |
| 21:26.57 | _ASK | you point, but to press it has a simple button |
| 21:27.04 | kabturek | blink to click :D |
| 21:27.19 | _ASK | it would be a mess =) |
| 21:27.30 | buz | lets do a really simple phone |
| 21:27.33 | buz | with ONE button |
| 21:27.49 | ciastek | "do what i want" button |
| 21:27.51 | _ASK | and keyboard. |
| 21:27.58 | _ASK | oh. |
| 21:28.14 | *** part/#openmoko matjan (n=matjan@216-154-18-113.dsl.look.ca) |
| 21:28.14 | buz | as long as the keyboard has just one button, that's fine |
| 21:28.36 | _ASK | i just wish they clone the treo |
| 21:28.48 | buz | oh give it up |
| 21:28.54 | kabturek | hehe ;) |
| 21:28.58 | buz | the treo is not even the neatest of the qwerty devices |
| 21:29.06 | _ASK | to me it is |
| 21:29.13 | kabturek | motorola q ? ;) |
| 21:29.13 | _ASK | and i've used quite a few |
| 21:29.24 | _ASK | too wide |
| 21:29.27 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 21:29.43 | _ASK | 240x240 screen |
| 21:29.45 | buz | has no wifi, no decent cam and all but newest editions even come with a frigging antenna |
| 21:29.50 | buz | that's like from the last centurey |
| 21:30.02 | kabturek | ehh im not ito such phones .. im buing motorola e2 couse it has linux onboard :) |
| 21:30.03 | basti | Is there any other good OS mobile phone out there? |
| 21:30.13 | _ASK | come on guys |
| 21:30.26 | _ASK | how good is to have a large screen if you have to have an on screen keyboard? |
| 21:30.29 | kabturek | basti, motorola e2 ! ;) |
| 21:31.10 | buz | look i would like qwerty as well |
| 21:31.11 | buz | but bigger screen is more important |
| 21:31.21 | _ASK | treo screen is 2.2 i think |
| 21:31.23 | ciastek | _ASK, because you can hide onscreen keyboard |
| 21:31.26 | buz | besides, the best keyboard is on the nokia e61 |
| 21:31.28 | _ASK | the screen on this phone is 2.8 |
| 21:31.31 | buz | is wide, but goooood |
| 21:31.32 | ciastek | and you cant do that with hardkeyboard |
| 21:31.35 | _ASK | very similar in size |
| 21:31.46 | basti | is there an sdk for the e2 and has it wifi?? |
| 21:32.03 | _ASK | but you have to use the stylus... |
| 21:32.14 | _ASK | the idea of having a keyboard is that you don't need to use both hands... |
| 21:32.23 | buz | there is a moto phone with wifi???? |
| 21:32.41 | stefan_schmidt | no |
| 21:32.48 | buz | so i thought |
| 21:32.48 | basti | i don't know |
| 21:32.49 | _ASK | i am starting to belive that you play with the phones more than using them |
| 21:32.54 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 21:33.03 | Vegar | isn't that the point? |
| 21:33.04 | buz | ROTFL |
| 21:33.12 | buz | you mean you can use them for real stuff? |
| 21:33.21 | buz | gadget are toys |
| 21:33.40 | _ASK | to me it's a phone which can dual as a mini computer at times |
| 21:33.55 | buz | to me, it's the other way round |
| 21:34.00 | Vegar | now that's a pretty large phone |
| 21:34.01 | _ASK | i installed a program called card reader on the phone, now it's an SD card reader |
| 21:34.07 | stefan_schmidt | _ASK: if (kernel_hacking == playing) {kprint("You're right.");} |
| 21:34.38 | _ASK | i installed annother program to turn it into a remote control trough the IR port |
| 21:34.45 | _ASK | i want it to do useful things |
| 21:35.04 | basti | what do u guys think about the greenphone? |
| 21:35.21 | basti | is it slow? |
| 21:35.37 | Melkman | hmm, just read on a dutch website that the neo will be released in march... http://tweakers.net/nieuws/45921/Eerste-samples-open-Linux-telefoon-in-maart-verwacht.html |
| 21:35.39 | stefan_schmidt | _ASK: This is the developer lounge. |
| 21:35.43 | Stephmw | basti: the software could do with optimising :) |
| 21:35.50 | Stephmw | basti: but the hardware is fine |
| 21:35.54 | _ASK | yeah, i noticed... |
| 21:36.06 | Melkman | basti: but is almost twice as expensive as te neo |
| 21:36.06 | _ASK | can i send a formal request to FIC to build a damn treo clone? |
| 21:36.26 | Stephmw | Melkman: they probably got that from TheRegister... and *they* plucked it from some random arse walking by |
| 21:36.49 | Melkman | Ah, pfew. Ws getting worried already |
| 21:37.33 | stefan_schmidt | _ASK: heh, no idea about a formal request. There were already suggestions for a qwerty phone. |
| 21:37.50 | buz | _ASK: sure |
| 21:37.58 | buz | (i have my doubts if they will care but...) |
| 21:38.03 | _ASK | ha |
| 21:38.12 | buz | i would buy a vga qwerty wifi phone any seconds |
| 21:38.12 | _ASK | i mean |
| 21:38.17 | basti | but the neo doesn't have wifi |
| 21:38.24 | _ASK | what kind of idiot is in charge of the design teams anyway? |
| 21:38.47 | _ASK | just when computers start having SD slots as standard |
| 21:38.51 | _ASK | they switch to micro-sd |
| 21:39.17 | _ASK | they switch to micro-sd and they don't add wifi |
| 21:39.36 | marcellus | Idiot? Nice. |
| 21:39.44 | buz | any ops here? |
| 21:39.47 | benJIman | _ASK: wifi would be pointless on a phone, you'd have like 15mins use before the battery runs out |
| 21:39.59 | _ASK | i had a tungsten c |
| 21:40.02 | buz | actually no |
| 21:40.05 | _ASK | and it was far from 15 minutes |
| 21:40.11 | buz | friend of mine has a nokia e60 |
| 21:40.17 | buz | gorgeous screen, wifi works quite well |
| 21:40.22 | basti | but u could use it as a voip phone |
| 21:40.28 | buz | (well reception isnt what one would hope, but it does work) |
| 21:40.29 | _ASK | i mean, if SD is standard they should keep it that way |
| 21:40.43 | buz | SD is NOT standard in mobile phone industry by any means |
| 21:40.48 | benJIman | 3g would be more useful than wifi |
| 21:40.49 | buz | microsd is fast approaching standard |
| 21:40.51 | *** join/#openmoko myren_ (n=myren@63.231.83.177) |
| 21:40.55 | jthomas | if this phone is more geared to geeks and devs, should a desktop-linux-user steer clear? Or would they have success with the phone too? I am tryiong to determin if I should get one and if I should be promoting it to normal people... |
| 21:40.56 | _ASK | it is standard across the board |
| 21:41.09 | benJIman | jthomas: it won't have much software at launch. |
| 21:41.13 | _ASK | it is used in most hand devices, computers, digital cameras and such |
| 21:41.19 | buz | but NOT in phones |
| 21:41.22 | buz | guess why |
| 21:41.35 | buz | there is hardly ANY phone with SD in it |
| 21:41.37 | marcellus | I can find open wifi networks free of charge - not so with 3G. |
| 21:41.38 | Stephmw | jthomas: I'd say it's a little early for regular users |
| 21:41.45 | buz | (yeah i know you're trolling, never mind) |
| 21:41.59 | Stephmw | jthomas: esp ones used to Nokia usability, or java games, etc |
| 21:42.10 | _ASK | wifi means not only browsing trough internet, but also sharing data in your network |
| 21:42.28 | buz | so does bluetooth PAN |
| 21:42.32 | _ASK | i have a server running 24/7 on my home, where i store most of my files |
| 21:42.47 | jthomas | hmmm... would there be enough apt-get updates to make it usable within a month or so? or might it still be too wild? |
| 21:42.47 | _ASK | so i don't have to carry a copy in each laptop and hand device i have |
| 21:43.21 | Stephmw | jthomas: problem is, regular users expect full integration |
| 21:43.39 | Stephmw | jthomas: apt-gettable stuff is unlikely to be tailored for mobile devices in the first iteration |
| 21:44.09 | _ASK | i have 4 laptops, one desktop and two treos on my home, it's really a pain in the ass to coordinate it all |
| 21:44.12 | jthomas | lol... well i guess there will be some youtube videos of this when its released and i can guess at the usability from there... |
| 21:44.18 | *** join/#openmoko AciD3572 (n=Miranda@adsl-dyn63.91-127-97.t-com.sk) |
| 21:44.24 | buz | WTF does one have 4 laptops |
| 21:44.34 | _ASK | i have two |
| 21:44.43 | Stephmw | buz: gadgeturbation :) |
| 21:44.45 | _ASK | one dell precision m70, one thinkpad t41p |
| 21:44.50 | jthomas | buz sometimes life demands it ;) |
| 21:44.54 | _ASK | i don't take out the m70 because it's too large |
| 21:44.56 | Stephmw | buz: ... which is why I'll be getting a neo as well |
| 21:45.15 | _ASK | my sister has a thinkpad 600x, my mom a T43 |
| 21:45.16 | jthomas | Stephmw: that was my home, too |
| 21:45.19 | buz | i weaned myself of gadget addiction |
| 21:45.21 | buz | just to expensive |
| 21:45.25 | jthomas | sorry, that was my HOPE, too |
| 21:45.51 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 21:45.53 | marcellus | My Samsung Z500 has micro-SD (trans flash). |
| 21:45.54 | _ASK | i have to keep it all runing |
| 21:46.03 | Stephmw | jthomas: you'll probably do fine if you survive the daily desktop-linux usability hiccups |
| 21:46.08 | _ASK | just imagine my frustration about not having WIFI on the treo. |
| 21:46.18 | jthomas | yeah i can do THAT, there aren't many these days... |
| 21:46.21 | Stephmw | jthomas: regular users are different :) |
| 21:46.24 | jthomas | lol |
| 21:46.25 | kabturek | soon-my moto e2 will have SD ;) |
| 21:46.32 | Stephmw | jthomas: we're 'special' |
| 21:46.58 | jthomas | hmm i tend to pretend that we're not, and that they could be good too if they opened their eyes a bit... |
| 21:47.15 | _ASK | with SD you can take out the card from the camera, plug it on the handheld and transfer it over WIFI to the server |
| 21:47.23 | _ASK | but... that's theorically speaking. |
| 21:47.38 | marcellus | _ASK: get an adapter then |
| 21:47.53 | _ASK | treo doesn't work with SDIO WIFI |
| 21:48.02 | Stephmw | jthomas: wrong end of the usability equation :) |
| 21:48.06 | jthomas | if the phone comes with Dialing and SMS built in, but little else, then *some* progs must be apt-gettable, right? within a few weeks at least? |
| 21:48.36 | Stephmw | jthomas: if it's not usable by some dumb twit... either it's the wrong function (why is he even looking at it, hide it) or it's not simple enough |
| 21:48.46 | _ASK | besides, using the SDIO card denies you to use the SD slot. |
| 21:49.06 | kabturek | _ASK, you can have an adaptor to put microSD cards in it and act like an SD card |
| 21:49.36 | *** join/#openmoko meyerm (n=meyerm@p549856C2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:49.42 | buz | in fact, microsd cards generally SHIP with one of those |
| 21:51.01 | Melkman | yup, put adapter and microsd in camera, take shots, tak out microsd and put it in the phone... no problem |
| 21:52.05 | _ASK | microsd is not below the battery? |
| 21:52.11 | _ASK | under |
| 21:52.32 | Stephmw | Melkman: normal sd --> digital cameras |
| 21:52.55 | _ASK | nah |
| 21:52.56 | buz | thats why you put an adapter into it ;) |
| 21:53.12 | _ASK | there is minisd, microsd and god knows what else |
| 21:53.33 | Stephmw | buz: naw, don't think you'll find 133x microsd |
| 21:53.35 | _ASK | have an SD and you have access to all |
| 21:53.58 | _ASK | besides, SD goes up to like 8GB right now |
| 21:54.02 | _ASK | and MSD like 1GB |
| 21:54.06 | buz | no, it does not |
| 21:54.10 | buz | SD goes to 2G |
| 21:54.13 | _ASK | 8 |
| 21:54.18 | _ASK | i've seen them |
| 21:54.19 | buz | SDHC maybe |
| 21:54.38 | buz | Stephmw: corsair makes 120X micros |
| 21:54.39 | buz | d |
| 21:54.58 | _ASK | second, how good is to have 133 or whatever fancy x number |
| 21:54.59 | kabturek | i just want the damn phone :D |
| 21:55.02 | _ASK | if the phone is usb 1.1 |
| 21:55.22 | Stephmw | buz: that's interesting... how does sticking it into an sd adapter affect the speed |
| 21:55.35 | buz | i'd guess not at all |
| 21:55.40 | buz | AFAIK those adapters are passive? |
| 21:55.46 | Stephmw | no idea ;) |
| 21:55.50 | _ASK | i think so |
| 21:55.57 | Melkman | Stephmw: If I look at my adapter it is purely mechanical |
| 21:55.58 | Stephmw | my camera takes CF cards |
| 21:56.00 | _ASK | just a strech on physical dimensions |
| 21:56.12 | Stephmw | micro-sd are so easy to lose |
| 21:56.18 | _ASK | true that |
| 21:56.29 | _ASK | even SD are |
| 21:57.01 | ciastek | k in OpenMoko stands for KDE? :) |
| 21:57.03 | buz | Stephmw: generally you dont take them out of their devices |
| 21:57.13 | Melkman | Hmm, they should put bluetooth in camera's... |
| 21:57.27 | _ASK | i bought a laptop on eBay some time ago and the seller forgot a 1GB SD on the package; when i called back he said "well, what's one going to do, consider it a gift..." |
| 21:57.50 | Stephmw | :) |
| 21:58.30 | _ASK | USB 2.0 is a must for god sake |
| 21:58.49 | ciastek | but chip doesnt suppot usb2 |
| 21:58.53 | basti | isn't it gtk based? |
| 21:58.57 | _ASK | which chip? |
| 21:59.00 | ciastek | (dont ask me what chip ;) ) |
| 21:59.04 | _ASK | oh :P |
| 21:59.07 | cbpage | the samsung thingie. |
| 21:59.13 | cbpage | the new samsung chip isn't in full production yet |
| 21:59.15 | buz | S3C2410 |
| 21:59.15 | _ASK | que chafa. |
| 22:01.14 | Melkman | I don't think USB2 is that big of a miss. The phone only got 64MB of flash. It will take about a minute to transfer that. |
| 22:01.32 | Sencer | wie jetzt? |
| 22:01.37 | cbpage | yeah but who isn't going to stuff a 1gb in their phone? |
| 22:01.47 | cbpage | ;) |
| 22:01.51 | _ASK | it is for transfering data to and from the SD card... |
| 22:02.00 | _ASK | warum? |
| 22:02.00 | cbpage | if there was usb2 you could also do some snappy VNC'ing |
| 22:02.58 | buz | 12mbit is enough for vnc |
| 22:02.59 | Melkman | Err, I can do snappy VNC-ing over 10Mbps ethernet with a lot bigger screens.... |
| 22:03.14 | kabturek | 2gb is a must in my phone ;) |
| 22:03.30 | _ASK | USB2: check, SD instead of MSD: check, qwerty keyboard: check; wifi: check |
| 22:03.45 | _ASK | it's a large phone for god sake. |
| 22:03.54 | meyerm | Hi. Does anybody know if the accu in the phone is easily exchangeable and in some standard format? |
| 22:04.00 | _ASK | they can do that and still be early to dinner |
| 22:04.50 | Melkman | _ASK: I had a HP iPaq hw6917 with all the features you name. Ditched it because it wouldn't even last a day with my use. |
| 22:05.05 | Melkman | plus I can't get used to windows mobile |
| 22:05.32 | _ASK | nah, because no windows phone has VGA screen |
| 22:05.41 | _ASK | and none can be customized |
| 22:05.49 | cbpage | usb 1.1 is more like 6Mb irl... but point |
| 22:06.16 | _ASK | i know programming, assembler and such, is just that i no longer spend my time on it |
| 22:06.47 | _ASK | having a phone that you can easily write code for, sounds tempting. |
| 22:08.12 | _ASK | are you russian Melkman? |
| 22:08.25 | Melkman | nope, dutch. |
| 22:10.30 | *** join/#openmoko myren__ (n=myren@63.231.83.177) |
| 22:11.36 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84-122-63-17.onocable.ono.com) |
| 22:13.35 | *** join/#openmoko theike01 (n=istuart@67-131-153-130.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 22:22.02 | basti | i just read that there will be a neo version with wifi. Is that true? |
| 22:22.56 | mjr | probably _at some point in the far-off future_ |
| 22:25.26 | basti | but there is nothing official? |
| 22:26.03 | buz | no |
| 22:27.52 | *** join/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R0545.r.pppool.de) |
| 22:27.58 | basti | thank u |
| 22:28.04 | basti | and good bye |
| 22:28.11 | *** part/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R0545.r.pppool.de) |
| 22:28.28 | kabturek | probably there will be even a version that will suit _ASK ;) |
| 22:28.37 | _ASK | i hope |
| 22:28.56 | _ASK | i do not think what i want is that off |
| 22:30.07 | kabturek | yeah but i think that its too much for the first one |
| 22:30.56 | Stephmw | kabturek: there's a current request for it to have this V12 under the hood, http://www.ultimatestupidity.com/pics/1/diesel/ |
| 22:31.10 | Stephmw | kabturek: we hope its inclusion will make everyone happy |
| 22:32.25 | kabturek | hehe i will wait for v2 of the v12 ;) |
| 23:10.17 | _ASK | are you interested in engines? |
| 23:10.18 | _ASK | this is mine |
| 23:10.18 | _ASK | http://mikemex.t35.com/anim.gif |
| 23:10.18 | *** join/#openmoko xkr47 (i=xkr47@hoas-fe1bdd00-219.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 23:11.58 | *** join/#openmoko cying (n=cying@75.44.226.183) |
| 23:11.59 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB32D7E.ipt.aol.com) |
| 23:12.02 | xkr47 | hope the moko doesn't panic as often as my workstation seems to do :P |
| 23:12.03 | _ASK | mmm |
| 23:12.03 | _ASK | maybe it's smaller than what i thought |
| 23:12.04 | _ASK | http://solsie.com/first-28-vga-screen-windows-mobile-device-sharp-w-zero3-es/ |
| 23:12.04 | _ASK | this one uses the same screen and looks much bigger |
| 23:12.26 | xkr47 | wow, it took 2 days to subscribe to the community mailing list |
| 23:12.27 | l4rs | _ASK what is smaller than you thought? the neo or the screen? |
| 23:12.27 | _ASK | the openmoko phone |
| 23:12.32 | l4rs | hm... but it has only 1cm less height... maybe the very round edges let you think so... |
| 23:12.49 | _ASK | yeah, bigger than the treo |
| 23:12.54 | _ASK | and yeah, this is mostly to make people do the dirty job for them |
| 23:12.58 | _ASK | it doesn't even has a camera |
| 23:14.35 | _ASK | once they have the free software to run it, they will probably release a consumer phone |
| 23:15.06 | marcellus | If you don't want to do their "dirty job" then don't. |
| 23:15.53 | *** join/#openmoko dullard (n=jim@adsl-static-1-30.uklinux.net) |
| 23:16.59 | _ASK | if they are going to make people to work for them, they should at least pay attention to what people requests... |
| 23:17.22 | _ASK | palm, for example, is literally frozen now |
| 23:17.39 | _ASK | the newer treos are almost identical to the ones released almost three years ago |
| 23:18.09 | _ASK | they increased RAM, ROM and such, but those are minor upgrades |
| 23:18.20 | _ASK | they still don't add WIFI for example |
| 23:18.22 | marcellus | Still you want a Treo clone. |
| 23:18.26 | xorAxAx | wasnt there a treo with win ce? or was it a normal palm device? |
| 23:18.36 | _ASK | not treo clone |
| 23:18.43 | _ASK | but treo format is quite good |
| 23:18.53 | _ASK | you can use the phone one handed |
| 23:19.07 | _ASK | it has keyboard, 5 way control and shortcut keys |
| 23:19.21 | xkr47 | "openmoko requires three hands to operate" |
| 23:19.28 | _ASK | it is small enough to carry in the pocket yet it does all the PDA stuff |
| 23:19.58 | _ASK | how are you going to type text? |
| 23:20.07 | _ASK | finger the screen all the way? |
| 23:20.26 | xkr47 | it had a stylus but the software I made could be operated with the thumb |
| 23:20.41 | xkr47 | it was a hit |
| 23:20.42 | xkr47 | :) |
| 23:20.57 | xkr47 | I'm sure considering porting it to the bigger screen format |
| 23:20.59 | _ASK | yeah, and the size neccesary to handle with fingers made it to occupy all the screen |
| 23:21.06 | xkr47 | I get nine pixels instead of 1 on moko :) |
| 23:21.23 | xkr47 | hmh ? |
| 23:21.40 | _ASK | or how you avoid pressing the neighbor keys? |
| 23:21.45 | xkr47 | no, it was more like "if you start dragging here, you get this kind of response |
| 23:22.03 | _ASK | text, you want to type simple text |
| 23:22.10 | xkr47 | yeah yeah |
| 23:22.10 | _ASK | a, b, c and such |
| 23:23.16 | marcellus | Using the screen seems to work just fine on the iPhone. |
| 23:23.34 | _ASK | how big is the screen of the iphone? |
| 23:24.40 | xkr47 | I would guess the pixel size is roughly the same, only slightly bigger resolution |
| 23:24.48 | xkr47 | but hey, I'm only guessing :) |
| 23:25.33 | _ASK | i think the screen on the iphone is much larger |
| 23:25.51 | marcellus | It is, but with less resolution. |
| 23:27.11 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 23:27.17 | _ASK | is real world size and not resolution what makes an onscreen keyboard to be usable with fingers... |
| 23:27.30 | _ASK | otherwise you have to use a stylus |
| 23:27.42 | _ASK | unless you can move the stylus with the force of your mind |
| 23:27.54 | _ASK | you have to use the other hand... |
| 23:28.05 | marcellus | the horror |
| 23:28.39 | _ASK | the damn treo has four diminute buttons on bottom |
| 23:28.54 | _ASK | that allows you to change between day, week and month in the calendar |
| 23:29.15 | _ASK | try to switch them using the fingers and you'll understand why i am not fond of on screen keyboards |
| 23:30.32 | l4rs | you are not forced to buy the neo ;) :p |
| 23:31.12 | _ASK | yeah, but that doesn't prevent me for throwing crap at it hahahahaha |
| 23:31.57 | _ASK | i want a decent phone, is that too much to ask? all phones lack something, like if they did it on purpose |
| 23:32.15 | stefan_schmidt | Ah, 2 hours later and still the same troll. |
| 23:32.24 | _ASK | i'm a troll? |
| 23:32.27 | stefan_schmidt | _ASK: Nobody stops you building your own phone. |
| 23:32.33 | stefan_schmidt | night all. |
| 23:33.04 | *** part/#openmoko Gerikes (n=Gerikes@pool-72-79-199-28.spfdma.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:33.39 | l4rs | _ASK, yeah you're right. even the neo is not perfect... ;) but i think it's an step in the right direction |
| 23:34.09 | _ASK | true that |
| 23:34.29 | cbpage | i could see a simpler openmoko phone with a small screen and a standard keypad |
| 23:34.38 | cbpage | but there's less "oh, wow" in that which is bad for a first product ;) |
| 23:34.51 | cbpage | nothing's had a vga screen before :D |
| 23:35.25 | _ASK | heck, i complain because i do not own a fucking factory, otherwise i would build my own phone. |
| 23:36.32 | cbpage | i wonder if you could put pure gsm voice codec data over bluetooth |
| 23:36.40 | cbpage | and then have it encoded/decoded by a lapto |
| 23:36.40 | cbpage | p |
| 23:36.54 | l4rs | it would be great if we could build our own phones, or at least choose the parts we want to be inclued. but i think it will take some time towards this... and it will be more expensive... |
| 23:36.57 | cbpage | then you could make the phone itself almost disappear - it would just be a bluetooth gsm device |
| 23:37.03 | cbpage | yeah |
| 23:37.11 | cbpage | also remember fcc stuffs. |
| 23:37.13 | marcellus | You don't need a factory. Get your soldering iron and go to work on the components. |
| 23:37.17 | cbpage | (and equiv in other countries) |
| 23:37.40 | *** join/#openmoko noidd (n=red@thievery.criticalintegration.com) |
| 23:37.50 | noidd | So, 12 mins to the openmoko announcement? |
| 23:37.51 | noidd | :-) |
| 23:38.04 | benJIman | what anouncement? |
| 23:38.34 | marcellus | That Britney Spears will be the Neo1973 spokesperson. |
| 23:38.39 | xkr47 | mickey|party, said he'd give some update on tuesday |
| 23:38.50 | xkr47 | s/,// |
| 23:38.51 | ozamosi | benJIman: we don't know, but it's supposed to be cool :) |
| 23:39.03 | cbpage | lol |
| 23:39.04 | benJIman | Where was the announcement announced? |
| 23:39.10 | xkr47 | apt, if you know sed, I already fixed that :) |
| 23:39.22 | xkr47 | benJIman, live @ irc! |
| 23:39.25 | noidd | its an announcement of a comming announcement :-D |
| 23:39.38 | kabturek | hmm as far as i see he is on a party :) |
| 23:39.52 | xkr47 | nicks can be deceitful.. ;-) |
| 23:40.04 | kabturek | i herad about those .. they drink alcohol there and stuff ... |
| 23:40.13 | kabturek | s/herad/heard |
| 23:40.14 | marcellus | He will come back announcing that the Neo isn't beer resistant. |
| 23:40.36 | kabturek | it isnt ? damn :> got to make my own phone then ;) |
| 23:41.55 | *** join/#openmoko Zer0Her0 (n=Z@cpe-24-195-252-248.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 23:42.12 | cbpage | lol |
| 23:43.48 | cbpage | the missing feature i most want to see is edge and perhaps 3g data [that said i'll def. be buying it even with just gprs] |
| 23:44.00 | benJIman | Isn't edge obsolete? |
| 23:44.18 | leventhal | not in Canada |
| 23:44.35 | meyerm | benJIman: And also not in Germany :) |
| 23:44.36 | ozamosi | well... Around here, edge was rolled out after 3g, so it's actually newer to us consumers :) |
| 23:44.46 | xkr47 | the missing feature I want to see is a foldable 30" touchscreen!1! |
| 23:45.10 | xkr47 | trolled out after 3g |
| 23:47.09 | cbpage | how bout one of those laser dlp projectors? ;) |
| 23:47.12 | meyerm | EDGE is also the only feature I'm really missing... :-/ |
| 23:47.28 | cbpage | seriously the second feature i'd want is a faster cpu with media+2d acceleration so it'll play videos good |
| 23:47.32 | cbpage | then maybe a full-sd slot on top |
| 23:47.51 | cbpage | put all those in and i'll snag the second openmoko phone too ;) |
| 23:48.49 | ozamosi | cbpage: what about shrinking the phone, making the screen bigger? :) |
| 23:49.05 | cbpage | humm - a 4" 854x480 screen would rock too |
| 23:49.40 | cbpage | maybe 5" - esp if h264 480p playback would work |
| 23:56.57 | *** join/#openmoko cjb (n=cjb@1cc-dhcp-99.media.mit.edu) |
| 23:58.36 | noidd | heh, a mini-projector would rock - truely |
| 23:58.37 | meyerm | Subscribung to the mailinglists is not possible <whimper> |
| 23:59.38 | xkr47 | yeah, I'd love to read my smses from the wall of a public transportation too! |
