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| 00:16.27 | koen | most likely only 16bit |
| 00:17.00 | koen | although 18bit would be nice since the lcd supports that |
| 00:17.14 | xkr47 | well.. the lcd controller supports 24bit so.. |
| 00:18.24 | xkr47 | does the tft screen support emulation modes like 320x240 ? |
| 00:18.27 | koen | yeah, but that cuts your bandwidth in half |
| 00:18.59 | xkr47 | mm.. well still pictures look better in 32bit but action could maybe even use the 8-bit mode |
| 00:19.03 | xkr47 | .. like games |
| 00:20.05 | xkr47 | it does seem to have a fake 18bit mode where the the lsb is the same for all colors |
| 00:20.12 | xkr47 | (the samsung cpu I mean) |
| 00:20.30 | koen | I wonder if kdrive supports 18bit |
| 00:21.01 | xkr47 | wonder how this 5:5:5:1 mode actually looks |
| 00:21.25 | xkr47 | guess there is some reason they put it in next to the 5:6:5 mode |
| 00:24.50 | xkr47 | will the display & touchscreen be controllable from userspace ? |
| 00:25.07 | mjr | how do you mean? |
| 00:25.22 | xkr47 | will X do the decision whether the touchpad & screen light is on ? |
| 00:26.31 | xkr47 | maybe through /proc or /sys |
| 00:27.27 | xkr47 | nice, the samsung has a watchdog timer built-in |
| 00:29.12 | xkr47 | did moko have the 200 or 266MHz version (or something else) of the samsung cpu ? |
| 00:30.05 | mjr | 266, according to Sean |
| 00:30.14 | xkr47 | hmm.. "operating temperature 0°C to 70°C" for commercial model.. better keep it in the pocket in winter :) |
| 00:30.30 | xkr47 | or then run seti@home on it ;) |
| 00:30.40 | xkr47 | mjr, ok |
| 00:34.36 | xkr47 | does the cpu support adjusting the operating frequency online ? |
| 00:37.11 | xkr47 | there seems to be some "slow mode" and "idle mode" |
| 00:39.38 | xkr47 | is there any coprocessor installed ? |
| 00:48.31 | thresh_ | i thought seti is dead |
| 00:52.34 | xkr47 | sorry, I meant some cpu-hogging software in general, kindof like google means to search the web |
| 00:52.37 | xkr47 | :) |
| 01:11.47 | cbpage | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:11.53 | cbpage | (most lcd monitors are 18-bit :P ) |
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| 03:25.30 | Matt_H | Will the Neo do video |
| 03:26.55 | Psi | its got a 640x480 color display and runs linux, what do you think? :P |
| 03:27.18 | Psi | unless you mean videocalling, in which case, i dunno |
| 03:30.29 | cbpage | it'll do video somewhat but i think the hw will be a bit slow for 24/30fps |
| 03:30.47 | cbpage | the arm has no SIMD and there's little/no 2d accel |
| 03:31.51 | Psi | damn |
| 03:32.03 | Psi | i wanted to be able to watch divx tv eps on it :) |
| 03:36.13 | Psi | wonder if the cpu will handle being overclocked a little :P |
| 03:40.28 | Matt_H | ok The Venice project people where wondering |
| 03:42.46 | Matt_H | http://www.theveniceproject.com/blog/ |
| 03:43.58 | Matt_H | and this phone has so much promise with bluetooth |
| 03:44.07 | Psi | yeah |
| 03:44.21 | Matt_H | well looks like they willl have to wait but thats ok |
| 03:45.10 | Matt_H | they want to dominate the living room first |
| 03:45.21 | Matt_H | then mobile devices |
| 03:45.56 | Psi | by then the second or third version might be out |
| 03:46.29 | Matt_H | Well Venice is still in closed beta so no rush for them |
| 03:48.51 | Matt_H | I notice Mark Pesce posted on the mailing list |
| 03:50.23 | Matt_H | http://relationalspace.org/ |
| 03:53.48 | Matt_H | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Pesce |
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| 07:06.05 | MacNorth | heh, iPhone about US$2000 for the first year http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/iphone/iphones-true-cost-1936-228611.php |
| 07:14.24 | wiml | yow |
| 07:15.12 | wiml | but are all those plans needed? like the $40/mo ($480/year) MEdia thingummy? |
| 07:22.32 | spikebik1 | dunno |
| 07:22.36 | spikebik1 | they didn't list net bandwidth |
| 07:22.43 | spikebik1 | unless media net and gprs is the same thing |
| 07:31.08 | cbpage | i think so |
| 07:31.49 | cbpage | i didn't realize cingular was so expensive for unlimited n+l |
| 07:32.01 | spikebik1 | n+l? |
| 07:32.22 | cbpage | nights and weekends - oops, tired |
| 07:32.27 | cbpage | should've been n+w |
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| 08:00.12 | mickey|gprs | morning |
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| 11:50.46 | xkr47 | anybody knows what hardware upgrades are planned for the second version ? |
| 11:51.03 | xkr47 | Samsung s3c2460 perhaps ?-) |
| 11:52.47 | xkr47 | lol @ image behind MacNorth's url :D |
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| 12:18.15 | xkr47 | s3c2410 vs s3c2460: http://www.gp32x.com/board/lofiversion/index.php/t32544.html |
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| 12:19.57 | koen | xkr47: or pxa320 or imx31 or LPC or ... or ... |
| 12:20.27 | xkr47 | thx :) |
| 12:23.03 | buz | imx31 |
| 12:23.06 | koen | a vfp in v2 would be neat |
| 12:23.21 | buz | the 2460 is kinda wasted without good cam |
| 12:23.36 | koen | or some form of graphic accell so we can have fancy stuff like googlemaps |
| 12:23.59 | xkr47 | buz, is "imx31" more or less a fact or something you would like ? |
| 12:24.07 | buz | something i would like |
| 12:24.16 | xkr47 | :) |
| 12:24.17 | koen | or an omap |
| 12:24.18 | buz | that would be the killer chip ;) |
| 12:24.29 | buz | does anyone besides nokia even get omap? |
| 12:24.33 | xkr47 | my friend just ordered a n800, which has no gsm but has omap |
| 12:24.44 | buz | yeah if the n800 had gsm i would get it |
| 12:24.46 | xkr47 | so I guess we can then compare the features and speeds |
| 12:24.54 | koen | the n800 is too big for a phone |
| 12:24.59 | buz | well yes |
| 12:25.03 | xkr47 | mm |
| 12:25.14 | buz | i'd probably have a 20? phone for pure phone use |
| 12:25.21 | xkr47 | well I don't need a camera, I intened hooking up my regular digital camera through usb instead |
| 12:25.22 | buz | and keep the n800 at hand when at uni etc |
| 12:25.36 | buz | i dont care to lug around a cam |
| 12:26.13 | xkr47 | buz, should have a "phone" unit that you can shove in your backpack and then a n800 that communicates through bt :) |
| 12:26.33 | buz | thats stupid |
| 12:26.34 | xkr47 | or well maybe that's what you meant |
| 12:26.41 | xkr47 | ok |
| 12:26.41 | buz | it's not like i need GPRS ;) |
| 12:26.49 | xkr47 | ;) |
| 12:26.51 | buz | the phone is for calling, when i DONT have a backpack to put the n800 |
| 12:27.10 | xkr47 | sip <-> normal roaming would be nice |
| 12:27.19 | benJIman | buz: is the n800 as big as it looks? |
| 12:27.24 | benJIman | it looks bigger than some laptops |
| 12:27.26 | buz | i think so |
| 12:27.30 | xkr47 | lol |
| 12:27.35 | buz | the screen itself would be ok |
| 12:27.43 | buz | but the stuff around it is just stupid |
| 12:27.53 | buz | (somewhat similar to neo design, actually) |
| 12:28.03 | Tv | I have a 12" laptop, anything that intends to be smaller has to fit in a pocket |
| 12:28.13 | benJIman | Tv: I agree, even the neo looks slightly biggish |
| 12:28.16 | xkr47 | tv :) |
| 12:28.38 | gambler | am i transmitting |
| 12:28.43 | xkr47 | well I have a 12" laptop that's bust for the third time.. :) |
| 12:28.53 | xkr47 | gambler, no you're transceiving |
| 12:28.59 | buz | well the neo fits a pocket |
| 12:29.10 | gambler | good enough |
| 12:29.10 | buz | but considering how small the screen is compared to the overall case |
| 12:29.26 | buz | i mean up the screen keep the case ;) |
| 12:29.39 | benJIman | buz: it's still pretty big for pocket, it's bigger than the zaurus I think, which only just fits in my pocket |
| 12:29.59 | xkr47 | how sturdy is the openmoko |
| 12:30.04 | xkr47 | will it break if you drop it from 1m ? |
| 12:30.12 | benJIman | Try it and see :p |
| 12:30.16 | xkr47 | :D |
| 12:30.24 | benJIman | zaurus can survive drop from 1m, I've done it several times |
| 12:30.39 | benJIman | It even survived drop from 1m traveling at 20m off bike |
| 12:30.58 | benJIman | *20mph |
| 12:30.59 | xkr47 | is there btw a ovalish hole in the other end of the openmoko or is it just for looks ? |
| 12:31.14 | Tv | old nokias could survive a running throw into asphalt, spreading the parts in a ditch filled with snow |
| 12:31.43 | Tv | xkr47: looks like a place to attach a lanyard or some such |
| 12:31.47 | benJIman | tbh a lot is down to chance |
| 12:31.57 | xkr47 | benJIman, that equals dropping it from 2.4 metres |
| 12:32.01 | benJIman | if you regularly drop anything 1m it will probably break before long |
| 12:32.15 | xkr47 | Tv, :) |
| 12:32.22 | xkr47 | Tv, yeah I thought that might be the case |
| 12:32.30 | thresh_ | and what cpu would neo include? |
| 12:32.53 | xkr47 | thresh_, the first version due in feb ? Samsung s3c2410 |
| 12:33.09 | thresh_ | eh, no 3d porn then |
| 12:33.31 | Tv | you can always make panting calls |
| 12:33.46 | koen | size comparison: http://www.flickr.com/photos/86669029@N00/356833001/ |
| 12:33.47 | buz | i'll never get why people want mobile porn |
| 12:34.08 | thresh_ | buz: dunno. but the company i work in has main profit for selling mobile pron. |
| 12:34.20 | buz | people are stupid |
| 12:35.01 | xkr47 | is the 770 sizewise like n800 ? |
| 12:35.11 | koen | it is |
| 12:35.16 | koen | give or take a cm |
| 12:35.35 | benJIman | 770 seems smaller |
| 12:36.11 | benJIman | thresh_: you could probably do some 3d stuff with it |
| 12:37.51 | benJIman | Are the lists broken? no messages for a while |
| 12:47.53 | *** join/#openmoko mickey|berlin (n=mickey@berligate.hmw-consulting.de) |
| 13:06.50 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@195.227.105.180) |
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| 13:15.04 | rboehme | Anyone know if there's any way to develop OpenMoko apps on a regular Linux (Ubuntu) box and how I would go about doing it? Can't wait to preorder the Neo1973 and dump my Treo 600. |
| 13:16.28 | stefan_schmidt | rboehme: Read about openembedded.org usage. It the build system they will use. |
| 13:16.46 | koen | openmoko uses gtk, so for the first step you can develop it like any gtk+ application on your workstation |
| 13:17.03 | koen | and as stefan_schmidt you can use OE to compile and package it for the neo |
| 13:17.13 | koen | stefan_schmidt: guten morgen |
| 13:17.17 | buz | just make sure you can actually use it on vga screen |
| 13:17.23 | stefan_schmidt | koen: guten morgen :) |
| 13:17.24 | rboehme | OE? |
| 13:17.34 | stefan_schmidt | rboehme: openembedded |
| 13:17.38 | koen | buz: a 300dpi screen even |
| 13:17.54 | koen | buz: which equates to a 320x240 screen on your workstation :) |
| 13:17.55 | *** join/#openmoko Laibsch (n=Laibsch@R76d9.r.ppp-pool.de) |
| 13:18.34 | koen | stefan_schmidt: enjoy |
| 13:18.35 | rboehme | I'll look openembedded up. guten morgen, stefan and koen. |
| 13:21.14 | rboehme | I gather OpenMoko, being based on Linux, will actually be multithreaded (thinking of Palm, which patently isn't, from what I know). |
| 13:22.40 | koen | it is |
| 13:24.10 | rboehme | cool. Any word on when preorders might open, and when in Feb I can get one? My Treo is slowly dying, and I'm going to have to pick up a free phone from T-Mobile until then. |
| 13:24.46 | rboehme | Also, I gather being GSM/GPRS, that T-Mobile should have no problems with it (crossees fingers). |
| 13:26.46 | greentux | rboehme: why should there be problems? |
| 13:27.05 | greentux | rboehme: th eopenmoko used a gsm-modul, certified all over th eworld |
| 13:29.12 | rboehme | greentux: I don't know anything about phone's internals. I just know that my carrier uses GSM; I thought that there might have been something strange in the way things work such that carriers could block unsupported devices. |
| 13:29.39 | rboehme | I'm learning, but for the moment I don't know much :) |
| 13:32.30 | greentux | rboehme: ah, ok. no there will be nearly no problems... |
| 13:32.57 | greentux | same modules are used in other smartphones, pcmcia cards, remote connections for traffic counting units etc tec |
| 13:34.17 | rboehme | thanks. Now to contact mvelopes to see if they have an API (I would like what I write to interface with them). |
| 13:35.34 | rboehme | also, does anyone know if there's a possibility of some emulated PalmOS application support? Is there some linux emulator that can be ported? |
| 13:36.49 | Tv | rboehme: there is a linux emulator |
| 13:37.39 | Tv | xcopilot, IIRC |
| 13:37.49 | rboehme | thanks. I'll look it up. |
| 13:38.42 | rboehme | well, the combination of you guys and reports of the Treo 680's battery life have stopped me dead in my tracks to get one. :) |
| 13:45.49 | buz | i wonder if one could emulate a palm on neo? (legally?) |
| 13:48.42 | *** join/#openmoko GoGi (n=q@p57A57E9D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:49.05 | GoGi | what's multitouch? |
| 13:50.16 | benJIman | being able to input in multiple points on the display at once |
| 13:50.25 | GoGi | is that important? |
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| 13:52.00 | rboehme | How do apps get text entered? Is there a virtual keyboard, or handwriting? |
| 13:52.24 | benJIman | GoGi: it enables minority report style interfaces |
| 13:52.30 | buz | no handwriting as far as i understand |
| 13:52.52 | GoGi | heh |
| 13:53.11 | Tv | get handwriting to work on linux tablet PCs and someone will port it to Neo |
| 13:53.53 | rboehme | heh. I gather it's a virual keyboard then, with numbers as well? |
| 13:53.57 | buz | handwriting is near useless |
| 13:54.00 | benJIman | GoGi: http://youtube.com/watch?v=esDhF9TgLPQ |
| 13:54.09 | buz | (and i'm writing this on a tablet pc)= |
| 13:54.51 | thresh_ | palm-style graffiti is fine. |
| 14:05.34 | rboehme | I see in the specs a Global Locate AGPS chip in there. Does this mean OpenMoko will also be a GPS device? Any word on any GPS softwarte for it if so? |
| 14:07.24 | noidd | openzaurus had handwriting recognition |
| 14:07.35 | noidd | and you could actually create your own glyphs |
| 14:07.46 | noidd | sorry, lemme rephrase |
| 14:07.50 | noidd | too easrly in the morning |
| 14:08.03 | noidd | openzaurus had hand-input graffiti style |
| 14:08.11 | noidd | and you could create your own glyphs |
| 14:11.33 | *** join/#openmoko lonnb (n=lonnb@i-83-67-202-74.freedom2surf.net) |
| 14:12.30 | koen | noidd: you mean "the graphical environments OZ provided had handwriting recognition" |
| 14:16.24 | yacc | buz: you can emulate a palm legally, if you can get the ROMs legally. Now that's the question how xcopilot get's it's ROMs from? |
| 14:16.53 | buz | i'd say if you own a palm, you should be fine |
| 14:17.05 | buz | (maybe not, but who's gonna sue) |
| 14:17.30 | thresh_ | and there's a way to emulate arm even on x86 machine |
| 14:17.58 | Tv | IIRC there's a way to grab the ROM from an existing palm |
| 14:18.02 | buz | killall soffice.bin |
| 14:18.05 | buz | ooops |
| 14:18.22 | Lumpio- | su - |
| 14:18.27 | Lumpio- | qcm0298rCMdkfc3Fas |
| 14:18.27 | thresh_ | # |
| 14:18.28 | Lumpio- | oops |
| 14:18.35 | buz | that's classic really |
| 14:18.44 | Lumpio- | Really :P |
| 14:18.45 | Sencer | ^^ |
| 14:18.58 | Sencer | I like passwordsafe |
| 14:18.59 | buz | or identify to a channel |
| 14:19.05 | buz | ? |
| 14:19.44 | Sencer | well, it looked like "Auto-Type" into the wrong window from a password managing application |
| 14:20.01 | Sencer | I stopped using that feature after it happened to me once |
| 14:21.56 | buz | that's why kwallet is smarter than that ;) |
| 14:23.24 | *** join/#openmoko vargr (n=vargr@ool-4578638e.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 14:39.18 | *** join/#openmoko seaLne (n=seaLne@ubuntu/member/sealne) |
| 14:43.54 | noidd | koen: aye |
| 14:45.03 | noidd | that is a hell of a password Lumpio-, it puts mine to shame and that's saying something |
| 14:48.22 | sannes | hm, too few symbols in it, who ha such a weak password anyways ... :P |
| 14:49.02 | Lumpio- | noidd: I don't /actually/ use such a strong password >_> |
| 14:52.06 | sannes | Lumpio-: how did you password end up in your client anyways? |
| 14:53.29 | noidd | hmm, is developer.berlios.de down/ |
| 14:53.30 | noidd | ? |
| 15:00.12 | Lumpio- | sannes: That's not my /actual/ password -_- |
| 15:00.30 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (n=Ryushin@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 15:00.42 | Lumpio- | Just couldn't resist doing that after 16:17:55 < buz> killall soffice.bin |
| 15:00.54 | sannes | ah, that way :P |
| 15:01.32 | sannes | nothing better to do while waiting for neo1973 release.. :D (me neither, ugh) |
| 15:10.24 | noidd | sannes: grab the development stuff and get poking |
| 15:10.32 | noidd | it'll give you a headstart when your device arrives |
| 15:10.42 | *** join/#openmoko ssvb (n=user@87.252.225.64) |
| 15:23.34 | rboehme | if I want to use a DB backend for my app, what would work well with OpenMoko? |
| 15:24.34 | sannes | noidd: openembedded ? |
| 15:24.57 | Lumpio- | rboehme: sqlite? >_> |
| 15:27.06 | rboehme | was thinking of that, just didn't remember the name. I think I should just be able to use it as a shared library, or will I have to recompile? |
| 15:29.44 | rboehme | in other words, is the .so library specific to a processor or linux kernel? |
| 15:30.46 | sannes | rboehme: to architecture |
| 15:31.18 | noidd | yessir |
| 15:31.25 | noidd | openembedded |
| 15:31.59 | sannes | noidd: openembedded is just a package management system more or less? |
| 15:32.43 | noidd | management and build |
| 15:33.21 | rboehme | sannes: so I should just be able to recompile into a new .so, and use that. |
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| 15:34.00 | noidd | You use it to roll your own distribution for any of the supported targets |
| 15:34.46 | sannes | rboehme: yes, if it isn't available as a package already .. |
| 15:36.10 | sannes | noidd: If I already have bitbake installed, and a cross-compiler for the target I need .. |
| 15:36.16 | rboehme | ok. I see a "Linux" package at sqlite (assummed x86); is there any other place that I should look for a package |
| 15:36.20 | noidd | the metadata I would guess |
| 15:36.31 | noidd | its been a LONG time since I was a contributer to oe |
| 15:36.36 | noidd | almost 2 years |
| 15:36.45 | noidd | using ebuild and bitkeeper |
| 15:36.50 | noidd | better ask someone more recient |
| 15:37.55 | sannes | heh, I like ebuilds :P |
| 15:38.36 | sannes | and did some package for a distro with .ipkgs (lightweight debian packages) for a small handheld once .. |
| 15:40.04 | bmidgley | anyone here know what openmoko uses for bluetooth audio? |
| 15:40.25 | koen | bmidgley: I suspect bluez |
| 15:40.37 | bmidgley | I mean the drivers on top of bluez |
| 15:40.43 | koen | bmidgley: no idea |
| 15:40.44 | bmidgley | i've been maintaining bluetooth-alsa |
| 15:40.49 | koen | bmidgley: I know :) |
| 15:40.56 | buz | does a2dp use more or less battery than a wired headphone? |
| 15:40.58 | koen | bmidgley: I'll bring some neo's to bossaconference |
| 15:40.59 | bmidgley | but it would need some tweaking to work embedded |
| 15:41.10 | bmidgley | oh good |
| 15:41.38 | bmidgley | more battery |
| 15:41.43 | sannes | noidd: what I am more interested in is how to plug into the phone features :) I wonder if/how they are going to expose it .. |
| 15:41.46 | buz | mhh then i wont use it |
| 15:41.54 | bmidgley | typically mp3 is decoded and recoded in sbc before transmission |
| 15:42.05 | buz | that sucks double |
| 15:42.23 | bmidgley | there are a couple of sets out there that have an mp3 decoder |
| 15:42.34 | bmidgley | so the battery question comes down to... |
| 15:42.38 | koen | oooh dbus |
| 15:42.48 | bmidgley | is it more costly to decode mp3 or to transmit mp3 |
| 15:42.56 | koen | it seems I haven't looked at bluetooth-alsa.sf.net a while |
| 15:43.09 | koen | bmidgley: decoding takes ~30% cpu |
| 15:43.12 | bmidgley | yeah it needed an overhaul finally did it |
| 15:43.14 | koen | using libmad |
| 15:43.33 | koen | or gst-plugin-mad if you swing that way |
| 15:44.46 | bmidgley | there's also a question of signal degradation when decoding/encoding |
| 15:46.16 | koen | I don't know how costly mp3 encoding is |
| 15:46.31 | bmidgley | but we don't ever encode mp3 |
| 15:46.40 | koen | ah |
| 15:46.47 | bmidgley | only if it's already in that format |
| 15:46.50 | koen | I misread "typically mp3 is decoded and recoded in sbc before transmission" |
| 15:47.15 | koen | sbc = sideband compression? |
| 15:47.32 | bmidgley | subband something something |
| 15:47.36 | bmidgley | :) |
| 15:47.56 | buz | we could pre transcode the mp3 before putting them on the phone right? |
| 15:48.06 | koen | the neo will use a CSR radio if that makes a difference |
| 15:48.12 | xorAxAx | koen: "encoding"? |
| 15:48.16 | koen | Bus 1 Device 2: ID 0a12:0001 Cambridge Silicon Radio, Ltd Bluetooth Dongle (HCI mode) |
| 15:48.19 | bmidgley | buz: sbc takes twice the space of mp3 |
| 15:48.36 | bmidgley | and you need to put an sbc decoder in your media stack so wired audio works right |
| 15:48.37 | buz | aight, wired it will be |
| 15:48.57 | buz | i've yet to see somewhat decent BT earphones anyway |
| 15:49.26 | buz | and once you start with those receiver thingies you can go straight back to using a shuffle ;) |
| 15:50.08 | bmidgley | using a csr radio gives us more options |
| 15:50.18 | bmidgley | and it's the most solid one out there esp w linux |
| 15:50.23 | koen | yep |
| 15:51.30 | quants | lol: "Apple will likely wait until next year before unveiling their flavor of a mid-screen device, calling it a "FatPod" or something equally interesting." |
| 15:52.28 | buz | i wait for the day when apple sues fat people using ipods for smearing their hip image |
| 15:54.21 | rboehme | dumb question: how do I upgrade python-support in Ubuntu Dapper? I'm getting: bitbake: Depends: python-support (>= 0.2) but 0.1.1ubuntu1 is to be installed |
| 15:55.25 | buz | try the one from edgy |
| 15:55.27 | buz | it MIGHT work |
| 15:55.49 | buz | ii python-support 0.5.3ubuntu1 automated rebuilding support for python modu |
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| 15:57.30 | scoopex | is there a posibilty to testdrive the applications available for the Neo1973 ? |
| 15:59.13 | rboehme | what apt-get line do I need for that? and do I need to disable it again afterwords so that I don't get Edgy's packages? |
| 16:01.07 | seaLne | changing the version of python will break lots of things |
| 16:01.25 | koen | scoopex: not yet |
| 16:01.31 | quants | Neo1973 should have been Crash1947 |
| 16:01.53 | xorAxAx | rboehme: google for "pinning" |
| 16:01.58 | xorAxAx | and apt |
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| 16:11.13 | buz | whats the business with 1973 anyway |
| 16:30.07 | Sencer | motorola did a testdrive of the first anaog mobile phone or something to that extent |
| 16:30.12 | Sencer | in 1973 |
| 16:30.30 | buz | lol |
| 16:31.22 | quants | pop quiz: what crashed in 1947? |
| 16:32.24 | buz | roswell= |
| 16:32.34 | buz | we still dont know what exactly crashed |
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| 16:35.32 | quants | good answer |
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| 18:08.23 | rboehme | anyone know if the Neo1973 comes with any GPS software to use the GPS chip in it? |
| 18:08.35 | greentux | define "gps software" |
| 18:08.55 | koen | it has agpsd, which is hopefully api compatible with gpsd |
| 18:09.13 | quants | i'm sure it does have mapping softs |
| 18:09.16 | rboehme | something where at the least I know what GPS coordinates I'm at, possibly able to show a map and do driving directions that update |
| 18:10.15 | koen | no, it won't have that |
| 18:10.17 | greentux | some userspace gps soft to show the gps date should not be the problem. you can use what freshmeat lists :) |
| 18:10.30 | greentux | navigation software is mostly commercial. |
| 18:10.33 | koen | unless you install maemo-mapper-nohildon |
| 18:10.34 | rboehme | koen: I can find google for gpsd, not for agpsd. Do you have a link? |
| 18:10.39 | greentux | there are not many free maps |
| 18:11.01 | mjr | rboehme, that's the one propietary bit from the agps chip provider |
| 18:11.25 | greentux | with maemo-mapper you need at least maps |
| 18:11.40 | koen | greentux: and driving directions |
| 18:11.49 | greentux | the agpsd is included. closed at time... |
| 18:11.52 | koen | greentux: maemo-mapper downloads maps for you :) |
| 18:11.58 | koen | as well as directions |
| 18:12.01 | greentux | koen: yes, bt which maps? navteq? |
| 18:12.21 | koen | yes |
| 18:12.35 | greentux | koen: I read the idea of maemo-mapper. But at moment its not useful for a car navigation systems every day use. |
| 18:13.13 | koen | people who need navigation shouldn't be allowed to drive IMO |
| 18:13.53 | greentux | koen: ;) you are from netherland right? |
| 18:14.02 | koen | yes |
| 18:14.16 | greentux | koen: so you have water channels, no streets. |
| 18:14.24 | koen | and I usually plan each trip before entering the car |
| 18:15.07 | greentux | everytime its better to know where to go if you start the engine, but sometimes you have to change the way ... |
| 18:15.54 | koen | I'm not saying it isn't usefull |
| 18:17.11 | koen | I use navigation when I have to be in a citycenter with lots of one way street |
| 18:17.13 | greentux | finally I agree that maemo-mapper ist a very useful starting point for the endless field of neo navigation projects |
| 18:17.19 | koen | (or water channels) |
| 18:17.23 | greentux | ;) |
| 18:18.10 | koen | there's one slight problem with the update feature of maemo mapper: it uses position, not direction |
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| 18:20.42 | greentux | there is a mobile navigation service in netherland with no charge... moment |
| 18:21.02 | greentux | nav4all |
| 18:23.01 | koen | doesn't work on my phone :( |
| 18:23.16 | greentux | what phone? |
| 18:23.23 | koen | nokia 6210 |
| 18:23.33 | koen | ehm |
| 18:23.34 | koen | 6021 |
| 18:23.46 | greentux | worked on my 6630, but is feature overloaded |
| 18:24.27 | greentux | I prefer these offboard navigation... |
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| 18:24.59 | koen | girlfriend + map |
| 18:25.03 | koen | works wonders |
| 18:25.08 | xkr47 | lol |
| 18:25.15 | xkr47 | you end up in totally new places |
| 18:27.34 | buz | mhh there are now standalone 120? gsm navi thingies |
| 18:27.41 | buz | maps cant be THAT expensive anymore |
| 18:28.21 | koen | there's maps and actual usefull data |
| 18:28.27 | koen | like address -> coord mapping |
| 18:31.01 | xkr47 | google maps ? |
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| 18:46.14 | buz | well a car navi thingy would need coord <-> addr mappin |
| 18:46.23 | buz | pretty useless without |
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| 21:15.15 | xkr47 | can anyone trigger the procrastinant me with some neo information I could just as well read tomorrow ?-) |
| 21:16.29 | Stephmw | FIC caved in. |
| 21:16.37 | Stephmw | they're adding that V12 in the hole. |
| 21:16.47 | xkr47 | ?---) |
| 21:16.48 | Stephmw | through a trans-dimensional warp. |
| 21:17.34 | koen | xkr47: what till tomorrow |
| 21:17.45 | Stephmw | xkr47: unfortunately the driver software won't be ready until Q4 |
| 21:17.47 | koen | xkr47: they are on a codesprint right now |
| 21:17.59 | xkr47 | k |
| 21:18.21 | xkr47 | well I'm trying to put off work so I thought maybe you had some interesting stuff I could read ;) |
| 21:18.31 | xkr47 | anyway, what is Stephmw talking about ?-) |
| 21:18.49 | koen | the long awaited v12 engine |
| 21:18.58 | Stephmw | http://www.ultimatestupidity.com/pics/1/diesel/ |
| 21:19.08 | Stephmw | you need to keep with the programme |
| 21:24.21 | xkr47 | nice link |
| 21:24.22 | xkr47 | :) |
| 21:24.43 | greentux | Stephmw: are drugs legal there? |
| 21:25.00 | Stephmw | greentux: nope, this isn't .nl :) |
| 21:26.20 | greentux | Sean reads this log and builds a V12 in the neo... and the? Nobody wants that... |
| 21:26.36 | koen | did someone mention .nl? |
| 21:27.02 | greentux | no koen no.... nl means "not legal" |
| 21:27.28 | koen | we get a lot of "tourists" over here |
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| 21:27.34 | koen | being close to the border and all |
| 21:27.58 | thresh_ | close to the bordel you mean? |
| 21:28.38 | xkr47 | if it would happen that the kernel installed in neo doesn't boot, what options are there ? |
| 21:29.05 | koen | xkr47: besides screaming and kicking? |
| 21:29.07 | xkr47 | say if you installed a new kernel.. does it have a bootloader like grub or something ? |
| 21:29.19 | koen | it has uboot |
| 21:29.25 | xkr47 | well .. what hapscreaming and kicking |
| 21:29.28 | koen | which is a zillion times nices as uboot |
| 21:29.30 | xkr47 | well .. what happens after the screaming and kicking.. |
| 21:29.36 | koen | ehm |
| 21:29.42 | koen | uboot is nicer as grub |
| 21:29.46 | xkr47 | ok |
| 21:29.46 | koen | grub is pure evil |
| 21:29.56 | greentux | kboot ;) |
| 21:30.12 | xkr47 | grub has a bit fragile system.. |
| 21:30.38 | xkr47 | but it works nice if it succeeds loading itself :) |
| 21:31.09 | xorAxAx | xkr47: even then it can fail |
| 21:31.16 | xorAxAx | because grub reimplemented all file systems |
| 21:31.17 | xkr47 | wellwell.. .) |
| 21:31.22 | xkr47 | sure |
| 21:31.31 | xkr47 | luckily read-only support only :) |
| 21:31.33 | xorAxAx | imagine grub the monster reading the monstrous file system xfs |
| 21:31.39 | xorAxAx | where the btree code is larger than ext3 |
| 21:31.47 | xorAxAx | and 3 different btree implementations exist |
| 21:32.16 | xkr47 | well personally I think every boot loader should have it's own partition |
| 21:32.35 | xorAxAx | like with os/2? |
| 21:32.40 | xkr47 | yep |
| 21:32.41 | xorAxAx | the only OS where that is the case |
| 21:32.44 | xorAxAx | AFAIK |
| 21:33.11 | xkr47 | osx has also afaik |
| 21:33.31 | xkr47 | but if only pcs count then.. :) |
| 21:34.47 | xorAxAx | what does mac os x use? DOS disk labels? |
| 21:35.10 | xkr47 | don't recall exactly, just that there were some boot-related partitions |
| 21:35.42 | greentux | its a shame that sehr is no development around kboot. |
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| 21:48.11 | xkr47 | has anybody started a wiki with "what we know this far" ?-D |
| 21:48.20 | xkr47 | or is the topic doing that job ;-) |
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| 23:35.54 | Psi | have there been any statements as to what the 2nd neo version will or will not have? |
| 23:36.52 | stefan_schmidt | no |
| 23:37.22 | stefan_schmidt | Only that it will be pricier which means more features. |
| 23:37.28 | Psi | they said, wifi was for the 2nd version i thought? |
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| 23:38.00 | greentux | perhaps somebody said something. true is only what you can read on the website |
| 23:38.10 | Psi | yeah |
| 23:38.46 | stefan_schmidt | Or what you hear from the devs. :) |
| 23:39.08 | stefan_schmidt | Psi: If they are able to have a free driver, wlan will go in |
| 23:41.02 | greentux | stefan_schmidt: devs are the one side, fic is the other side. i think the wlan driver was not th ereason... |
| 23:41.03 | Psi | i wonder what the chances are of 3G |
| 23:41.24 | greentux | the neo will not only be available with linux as os. |
| 23:44.04 | stefan_schmidt | greentux: But devs are in contact with FIC. :) Anyway, perhaps you know more then me. That's fine. |
| 23:44.40 | greentux | stefan_schmidt: definitely I dont know more then you. thats sure. |
| 23:44.46 | stefan_schmidt | greentux: I also heard about the windows version, but never heard anything new about it after the first 'there are two versions' info |
| 23:46.21 | greentux | the free driver question is one I dont understand. for instance the ugly 3945 binary daemon... |
| 23:46.32 | greentux | for bsd there is a free version. but for linux not. |
| 23:47.09 | greentux | nobody has the heart to port it from bsd to linux, because intel dont like that.... |
| 23:47.52 | stefan_schmidt | greentux: Indeed binary user-space daemon is ugly. Intel announced a new driver without need for this daemon. |
| 23:47.56 | greentux | harald wrote in his blog something like "if ther eis no open version till end of year I write one, its no difficult". But I cant see it |
| 23:48.57 | stefan_schmidt | Why should somebody do the work intel will hopefully do. |
| 23:49.23 | *** join/#openmoko vitaminmoo (n=moo@humans.are.obsoleet.org) |
| 23:49.31 | vitaminmoo | Howdy. |
| 23:49.53 | stefan_schmidt | But I guess they just try to move it into firmware again. Which raises the firmware question again. :( |
| 23:49.59 | stefan_schmidt | hi Virtuall |
| 23:50.02 | stefan_schmidt | aargh |
| 23:50.05 | stefan_schmidt | hi vitaminmoo |
| 23:50.09 | greentux | "will hopefully do". ok. will see. the code is available for bsd |
| 23:50.15 | xkr47 | hi <TAB>! |
| 23:50.22 | xkr47 | :) |
| 23:50.23 | vitaminmoo | Hehe. |
| 23:50.36 | Stephmw | xkr47: always like a gamble :) |
| 23:50.53 | Stephmw | dammit... irssi doesn't do it with blank, you need at least one letter |
| 23:51.47 | vitaminmoo | So this probably gets asked 500x a day, but checking the page every 4 hours is getting to me. Any idea when these things will be aquireable? |
| 23:52.00 | stefan_schmidt | vitaminmoo: See topic |
| 23:52.09 | stefan_schmidt | No date yet |
| 23:52.54 | vitaminmoo | stefan_schmidt: urf, thank yee. |
| 23:53.35 | greentux | so I dont believe that closed driver is th eproblem to integrate... |
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| 23:54.35 | stefan_schmidt | greentux: No problem to integrate. Problem to don't like it. |
| 23:55.30 | greentux | stefan_schmidt: FIC dont like it? |
| 23:56.33 | PirateHead | It shouldn't matter what FIC doesn't like. |
| 23:56.36 | PirateHead | =D |
| 23:57.32 | stefan_schmidt | greentux: People make decision don't like it. Don't ask me who. |
| 23:57.48 | stefan_schmidt | PirateHead: You mean they have ask you? |
| 23:58.27 | Psi | kinda makes sense to bring out a cheaper version to start with, get everyone hooked on the device and wanting more features, so when the 2nd version comes out people are willing to pay for it. |
| 23:58.48 | PirateHead | stefan_schmidt: I don't know what you're talking about. If it's software integration you're talking about, open source can fix things FIC doesn't. |
| 23:58.56 | PirateHead | If it's hardware, obviously it does matter what FIC says. |
| 23:59.32 | PirateHead | Psi: I'm probably going to buy the first and second version, provided there's some time inbetween. |
| 23:59.39 | Psi | me too |
| 23:59.42 | greentux | and to satisfy some wlan manufacturer to open the drivers... |