| 00:01.09 | Psi_ | olaf123, i believe so, but ive only been in here for 1 day so you probably shouldn't trust me :P |
| 00:01.28 | olaf123 | :-) |
| 00:02.37 | olaf123 | is it possible to get informed automatically about selling start of neo1973? (sorry, I know my english is not very good) |
| 00:03.30 | Psi_ | i dont think so |
| 00:03.51 | Psi_ | watching the topic for this channel might be a good idea |
| 00:04.02 | olaf123 | ups |
| 00:04.31 | olaf123 | ok |
| 00:06.00 | olaf123 | thanx & bye |
| 00:06.13 | MacNorth_ | olaf123: there's a maillist for announcements |
| 00:06.37 | olaf123 | yes, I see :-) |
| 00:07.02 | MacNorth_ | so you may be automatically informed when the neo1973 goes on sale |
| 00:07.17 | Psi_ | oh, didnt notice |
| 00:08.49 | olaf123 | Psi_: it comes with the topic you tell me |
| 00:09.04 | Psi_ | yes i just noticed |
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| 00:36.29 | koen | "when the marketing dept changes their socks" |
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| 00:57.18 | edwardocallaghan | Hi all, what's the word on the street ? |
| 00:57.33 | koen | no words on my street |
| 00:57.42 | jaebird | my street is dark |
| 00:57.43 | WillySilly | there is on mine |
| 00:57.50 | WillySilly | it says: 'stop' |
| 00:58.21 | jaebird | i noticed that the E6 as a barcode reader app that uses the camera |
| 00:58.27 | WillySilly | that could be a double meaning, as in, stop asking |
| 00:58.28 | jaebird | as/has/ |
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| 00:58.46 | jaebird | that is one use for a cheap useless camera |
| 01:00.27 | edwardocallaghan | You all getting a PS3 as your next Linux Desktop ? |
| 01:10.18 | olaf123 | bye |
| 01:10.24 | *** part/#openmoko olaf123 (n=lalelu_6@p548CD6B1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:40.21 | spikebik1 | edwardo yuck |
| 01:43.43 | edwardocallaghan | ? |
| 01:43.52 | spikebik1 | ps3 as a desktop |
| 01:50.06 | edwardocallaghan | Yes its got two 3.2GHz PPC cores under the hood |
| 01:50.16 | edwardocallaghan | With 6 DSP's to play with |
| 01:50.36 | edwardocallaghan | Going to try to work out what I can do with the DSP's |
| 01:50.49 | edwardocallaghan | maybe some kind of hypervisor |
| 01:51.20 | Lumpio- | How much noise does a PS3 make |
| 01:51.29 | Lumpio- | (Yes, it's random) |
| 01:52.00 | spikebik1 | 2 3.2 GHz cores that are rather slow |
| 01:52.26 | spikebik1 | and the DSPs are very limited, no shared memory, very little local memory. |
| 01:53.29 | edwardocallaghan | No not slow |
| 01:53.31 | edwardocallaghan | RISC |
| 01:53.45 | spikebik1 | RISC has very little to do with it |
| 01:53.50 | edwardocallaghan | DSP's are not limited if you use them for DSP |
| 01:53.51 | spikebik1 | and powerpc's aren't very RISC anyways |
| 01:54.07 | edwardocallaghan | RISC has everything to do with it |
| 01:54.33 | edwardocallaghan | Not much noise |
| 01:54.35 | spikebik1 | so what do you think RISC has to do with it? |
| 01:54.50 | edwardocallaghan | Less power |
| 01:54.55 | spikebik1 | heh |
| 01:55.03 | spikebik1 | the PS3 is a rather hot power hungry device |
| 01:55.20 | edwardocallaghan | I know you must like cooking your hot dogs on your Xeons but... |
| 01:55.22 | spikebik1 | and RISC has nothing to do with power. |
| 01:55.28 | spikebik1 | Xeons are very hot |
| 01:55.35 | spikebik1 | But opterons are not. |
| 01:55.40 | edwardocallaghan | CISC |
| 01:55.42 | spikebik1 | both are clasically CISC |
| 01:55.52 | edwardocallaghan | I know |
| 01:55.54 | spikebik1 | Alphas are RISC and hot |
| 01:56.05 | edwardocallaghan | Alpha where nice |
| 01:56.05 | spikebik1 | there's no coorelation between risc/cisc and hot |
| 01:56.18 | edwardocallaghan | See the new Sun T1 platform |
| 01:56.22 | edwardocallaghan | 72w |
| 01:56.59 | spikebik1 | edwardo you seen to know just enough to be dangerous, but nothing about the reality of which you speak |
| 01:56.59 | edwardocallaghan | RISC can be faster then CISC |
| 01:57.08 | spikebik1 | and CISC can be faster than RISC |
| 01:57.40 | edwardocallaghan | As most of the instructions take longer then doing them long hand |
| 01:57.58 | edwardocallaghan | narr RISC all the way |
| 01:58.01 | edwardocallaghan | CISC is shit |
| 01:58.12 | edwardocallaghan | Openmoko will be RISC |
| 01:58.12 | spikebik1 | er umm |
| 01:58.21 | edwardocallaghan | Think of putting a CISC in there |
| 01:58.33 | spikebik1 | you know that all the CISC chips have RISC cores right? |
| 01:58.33 | edwardocallaghan | forget microwares |
| 01:59.16 | edwardocallaghan | Xeons are based on a oven you know |
| 01:59.19 | spikebik1 | x86's these day just use x86 as a ISA format, and translate the instructions into microops (basically risc instructions) |
| 01:59.29 | spikebik1 | Xeons are dead, not a useful reference point |
| 01:59.42 | edwardocallaghan | No there not? |
| 01:59.47 | spikebik1 | dual core opterons win vs the Sun T1 on all the benchmarks I've seen |
| 01:59.54 | spikebik1 | Yeah xeon is dead |
| 02:00.04 | spikebik1 | intel's moved to the core/core2/woodcrest based chips |
| 02:00.10 | edwardocallaghan | What benchmarks ? |
| 02:00.12 | spikebik1 | which are dramatically faster and cooler |
| 02:00.32 | spikebik1 | database, java, apache, mysql, postgres, and the like |
| 02:00.53 | edwardocallaghan | Do you have a heated swimming pool ? |
| 02:01.00 | spikebik1 | no |
| 02:01.28 | spikebik1 | the new X2/opterons are available at under 35 watts |
| 02:01.34 | edwardocallaghan | SQL would run faster on a Niagara any day ! |
| 02:01.36 | spikebik1 | and include the memory controller |
| 02:02.01 | edwardocallaghan | There is a new T2 chip coming out soon |
| 02:02.15 | edwardocallaghan | wow 2 cores, is that it ? |
| 02:02.54 | spikebik1 | Yup, for a few months anyways |
| 02:03.17 | spikebik1 | do you actually use computers or just regurgitate marketing? |
| 02:03.24 | edwardocallaghan | Should be very nice indeed |
| 02:03.26 | edwardocallaghan | lol |
| 02:04.00 | edwardocallaghan | I have a Blade 2000 and a T1 server, a SGI O2 |
| 02:04.16 | edwardocallaghan | And a Ultra 40 with AMD's in there |
| 02:04.32 | edwardocallaghan | The T1 chip kills the AMDs for though put |
| 02:04.48 | spikebik1 | the t1000's are particularly poor at anything involving floating point |
| 02:04.59 | spikebik1 | and AMD is doubling the number of course soon as well |
| 02:06.30 | edwardocallaghan | Your be very surprised at how little people use FP calculations ! |
| 02:07.37 | spikebik1 | true |
| 02:07.42 | spikebik1 | that aren't particularly good at int |
| 02:07.58 | spikebik1 | Many review point to the hope (great parallel performance on webservers and databases) |
| 02:08.29 | spikebik1 | and the reality is that each of the cores is so slow that it's hard to beat more traditional machines even with workloads particularly taylored for the t1000 |
| 02:08.33 | edwardocallaghan | So its good for a server and that's what its for |
| 02:09.06 | edwardocallaghan | Have you got one? |
| 02:10.03 | spikebik1 | I've had an account |
| 02:10.17 | spikebik1 | the question is what is the t1000 good for? |
| 02:10.31 | spikebik1 | where can I get more performance per $ than a dual core dual socket opteron? |
| 02:11.37 | spikebik1 | check out http://blogs.smugmug.com/onethumb/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/1 |
| 02:11.50 | spikebik1 | it was hotter, no faster, and much more expensive than a rather dated server |
| 02:15.02 | edwardocallaghan | Sounds like he is running Linux on a SPARC box |
| 02:15.08 | edwardocallaghan | No wonder why |
| 02:15.19 | edwardocallaghan | The Linux kernel is a mess |
| 02:17.08 | edwardocallaghan | I got to go to bed, thanks and see you later ;) |
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| 07:36.36 | aloril | 2 questions (I guess answer is yes to both): 1) has somebody compiled program inside neo? (ran gcc) 2) what if you break flash image? does uboot have support for micro-SD and/or USB? |
| 07:43.23 | CM | aloril: I think it was some kind of discussion about that a few weeks ago. Think someone said that it would be possible to brick it if you really messed up |
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| 07:48.06 | aloril | CM: by messing bootloader I guess? |
| 07:48.14 | CM | Yes |
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| 07:50.18 | aloril | CM: ok, in that case kernel and/or critical application hacking should be 'safe' |
| 07:50.26 | CM | Sun Nov 26 2006: |
| 07:50.26 | CM | 15:59 <noidd> mickey: Do you know if its possible to brick the device? |
| 07:50.27 | CM | 15:59 <mickeyl> noidd: unfortunately yes. the costs are too high to do it like on the Zaurus with a seperate NOR. If you overwrite uboot, then you have bad luck |
| 07:50.58 | CM | But yes, I guess applications should be safe :) |
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| 07:53.03 | rwhitby | mickeyl: will there be accessible JTAG pads to solder onto? |
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| 08:15.49 | aloril | CM: hmm.. no need to modify uboot if you just change kernel I assume (or at most modify enviroment section to point to different kernel if even that?) (just read article about uboot, I don't know more than that about it ;-) |
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| 10:30.02 | aloril | this makes me a bit worried: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-December/000642.html |
| 10:30.18 | aloril | can you swap micro-SD card while running? |
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| 10:32.26 | hrw|work | aloril: yes |
| 10:32.51 | hrw|work | aloril: but does it can be done in phone.. hmm. it has slot under battery iirc ;( |
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| 10:36.06 | buz_ | can what be done? |
| 10:36.07 | Psi_ | pretty sure i saw something saying it had two micro-sd slots |
| 10:36.15 | buz_ | no it has one |
| 10:36.26 | aloril | I wonder if usb host has enough power to run USB SD mass storage (ie.. those SD cards that can act as mass storage when connected to USB) |
| 10:36.33 | buz_ | no it hasnt |
| 10:36.39 | buz_ | it's entirely unpowered |
| 10:36.47 | buz_ | which means no usb stick, either |
| 10:37.21 | buz_ | http://thoughtfix.blogspot.com/2006/01/usb-power-injector-2.html something like that should work for storage and wifi |
| 10:39.21 | aloril | yeah, then can have quite a lot storage with USB hard disks ;-) |
| 10:39.37 | buz_ | actually, i wonder if an ipod or similar device would work without power |
| 10:39.37 | aloril | FPGA trough USB? |
| 10:40.18 | buz_ | sure |
| 10:40.24 | buz_ | there's compact flash FPGA |
| 10:40.31 | buz_ | combine it with usb CF reader |
| 10:41.02 | Psi_ | do you really need more than 4gb on your phone? |
| 10:41.22 | buz_ | mhh i need more than 1G |
| 10:41.31 | Psi_ | also probably wont be too long before there is 8gb sd |
| 10:41.31 | buz_ | which is supposedly where the microsd slot will top |
| 10:41.36 | koen | 640kB is enough for everyone! |
| 10:42.40 | Psi_ | buz_, i cant see them putting a microsd slot in the phone that only supports up to 1gb, its pointless |
| 10:42.53 | buz_ | its better than nothing really |
| 10:43.05 | xorAxAx | just use an external harddrive |
| 10:43.11 | buz_ | Psi_: look at the sc 2410 specsheet |
| 10:43.12 | xorAxAx | i got one yesterday, battery powered :) |
| 10:43.39 | aloril | I wonder how robust is USB connector, if I kept neo all the time connected to powered USB hub with enough long wire (and then various items connected to hub) |
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| 10:52.02 | aloril | ie.. powered hub would in separate case (and most of time remain in it), mobile phone in separate case but removed from it frequently and connected to hub with wire |
| 10:52.24 | buz_ | yeah but where to get a small powered usb hub |
| 10:52.30 | buz_ | small ones are usually unpowered |
| 10:53.16 | buz_ | and you need a way to power the hub :-( |
| 10:53.49 | buz_ | perhaps easier to take mini unpowered hub and use an injector |
| 10:55.32 | xkr47 | it would be nice if the solar panel could work as an usb power injector and charge the phone at the same time |
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| 10:55.52 | buz_ | and you put it on your hat or what |
| 10:56.26 | xkr47 | http://www.gadgethub.co.uk/shop/detail.asp?ProductGroupID=11848 http://www.cetsolar.com/sc150.htm http://www.cetsolar.com/solarbatchargers.htm |
| 10:56.45 | xkr47 | well it would be a lot more mobile than requiring some external power supply ? |
| 10:57.03 | xkr47 | oh it was a battery |
| 10:57.09 | xkr47 | ok :) |
| 10:57.35 | buz_ | whats the easiest way to get 5V |
| 10:57.50 | buz_ | preferably one thats not prone to blowing up |
| 10:57.53 | xkr47 | well the injector posted's quite nice if you like batteries |
| 10:57.57 | aloril | buz_: this doesn't qualify?: http://www.amazon.com/Cyber-Power-Battery-Powered-CP-H420MP/dp/B0002UQALQ |
| 10:58.13 | aloril | (I don't know if it can be used also to charge phone..) |
| 10:58.21 | buz_ | how big is this thing |
| 11:00.02 | aloril | buz_: dunno, doesn't seem huge when you compare to USB connector in top of picture |
| 11:00.20 | buz_ | mhh well keep in mind the usb stick will likely stick out from the side |
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| 11:00.31 | buz_ | or you use very short usb cables and glue in on top |
| 11:02.14 | buz_ | doesnt say how much battery it has either |
| 11:02.22 | aloril | hmm.. USB camera + http://www.picocomputing.com/products/cards/e12ep.php might allow some reasonable image processing, though speed of USB in neo limits things |
| 11:02.37 | aloril | buz_: umm.. it seems to have 4 AAA's according to page |
| 11:02.49 | buz_ | the FPGA is said to cost about 3K USD |
| 11:03.10 | buz_ | that would be about 3000mAh then |
| 11:03.18 | buz_ | 2,5x of what the phone has |
| 11:03.33 | Fletch | which navi software can be used on neo1973? |
| 11:03.48 | buz_ | gpsdrive maybe |
| 11:04.56 | aloril | buz_: ouch, thanks for the FPGA price, didn't see that anywhere yet |
| 11:05.04 | buz_ | well neither did i |
| 11:05.11 | buz_ | but someone quoted that range |
| 11:05.16 | aloril | buz_: yeah and you can always keep spare batteries around |
| 11:05.31 | buz_ | mhh aaa are f***** expensive |
| 11:05.33 | buz_ | compared to AA |
| 11:06.21 | aloril | buz_: yeah, I would prefer bigger size and AA (and it should also give power to other direction too (maybe this does: I don't know)) |
| 11:06.45 | buz_ | no small size is good |
| 11:06.57 | buz_ | its bad enough having to carry two devices |
| 11:07.20 | buz_ | now i wonder if one could hook up wifi thru bluetooth |
| 11:13.07 | aloril | personal itch: maybe if they release developer version earlier than actual end consumer version, maybe I could code simplified version of this idea enough fast to be included into consumer version: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Go_Teaching_Program |
| 11:13.14 | aloril | would be good fit with touch screen |
| 11:13.47 | koen | what prohibits from you doing it now? |
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| 11:22.50 | aloril | koen: good point, is there list of stuff that is available by default with neo? (gtk+ at least) |
| 11:25.12 | aloril | hmm... I think gnugo would be addon at least, even stripped i386 binary is almost 3MB (but if you get to that level, its not too big hurdle to download it) |
| 11:28.07 | aloril | koen: also what would be reasonable size? |
| 11:35.43 | koen | I think binary size shouldn't matter at this point |
| 11:35.58 | koen | a working prototype with gtk or sdl would :) |
| 11:37.11 | aloril | ah, sdl and gtk can be assumed, I guess gtkmm can't be assumed |
| 11:38.00 | koen | it has packagemanagement |
| 11:41.08 | aloril | koen: yes, for downloadable program can assume much more, but if goal is to get something bundled, then can't assume anything extra ;-) |
| 11:41.25 | koen | why not? |
| 11:41.39 | koen | just list the appropriate dependencies and put those online |
| 11:43.30 | aloril | umm.. I think bundled program should work without downloading anything extra |
| 11:43.50 | koen | wrong |
| 11:44.06 | koen | it has packagemanagement, trying to cirumvent that leads to tears |
| 11:44.13 | rwhitby | I think bundled programs should be minimized so I don't have to delete what I don't want out of flash. |
| 11:44.38 | rwhitby | but there should be a smorgasboard of programs to install using the package management. |
| 11:44.45 | koen | just think of what happens when 3 bundles all want to install libgtkmm |
| 11:46.18 | koen | or if 3 bundles all statically link to a 5mb lib |
| 11:46.55 | aloril | koen: ah.. I didn't mean that of course, I meant "use only what is bundled so this program can also work without downloading" |
| 11:47.17 | aloril | so if lihgtkmm is not bundled, then don't use it at all ;-) |
| 11:47.23 | koen | so to get your program you're going to send me floppies? |
| 11:48.07 | aloril | koen: well.. I would to see it bundled with neo by default without any need for downloads |
| 11:48.08 | koen | (I get the idea, but you can't prevent downloading in this day and age) |
| 11:48.50 | aloril | koen: well.. more full featured (with full gnugo, etc.. go programs and other features) would be download of course |
| 11:54.20 | aloril | hmm.. using monte carlo and 9x9 board only and basic features probably could get it into quite small size |
| 12:03.48 | aloril | is python bundled? |
| 12:09.27 | koen | probably not |
| 12:10.50 | rwhitby | s/bundles/bundled/ |
| 12:11.41 | mickeyl | rwhitby: if all goes well the final board will have a debug port that allows access to a) jtag b) serial console c) usb |
| 12:11.53 | rwhitby | mickeyl: sweet! |
| 12:12.19 | mickeyl | the preproduction models already have that port, so i hope it'll stay in the production models |
| 12:13.50 | koen | mickeyl: what gtk touchscreen helper do you use? |
| 12:14.02 | koen | mickeyl: libgtkstylus, maemo-patch or custom? |
| 12:15.30 | mickeyl | atm. libgtkstylus. on my agenda is adding a patch to support visual feedback |
| 12:15.51 | koen | ok |
| 12:16.16 | koen | mickeyl: I'm trying to figure out which hildon stubs I can safely add to OE's gtk+ |
| 12:19.08 | koen | mickeyl: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/bora/free/source/libgpsmgr_0.1-10.tar.gz looks usefull for openmoko |
| 12:19.23 | koen | "Application that needs GPS data can use this API to manage GPS daemon start |
| 12:19.23 | koen | and stop. This is needed in small handhelds where it is not good to have gpsd |
| 12:19.24 | koen | running all the time (because of battery and memory constraints) and to |
| 12:19.24 | koen | guarantee that only one gpsd process is running simultaneously even if multiple |
| 12:19.24 | koen | processes need the GPS data." |
| 12:23.10 | mickeyl | yeah, we need something like that as well, although I'm leaning towards exposing things like that through a dbus interface. I need to talk to florian asap -- I need to start coding on devmand probably very soon |
| 12:23.25 | *** join/#openmoko [g2] (n=g2@nslu2-linux/g2) |
| 12:23.51 | koen | heh |
| 12:23.58 | koen | I was just writing a mail to gpe@ about this |
| 12:24.46 | mickeyl | no, go ahead |
| 12:24.54 | mickeyl | i can comment on that |
| 12:24.58 | mickeyl | i have been looking at |
| 12:24.59 | koen | mickeyl: there was some disagreement between mallum and RP about moving zaurusd, and he adviced someone not working for a company contracted by nokia to copy it it ltg |
| 12:25.03 | *** join/#openmoko T2 (n=tv@GMKLXVII.dsl.saunalahti.fi) |
| 12:25.13 | koen | s/it it/it to/ |
| 12:25.52 | mickeyl | http://svn.gnome.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/gnome-power-manager/trunk/docs/dbus-interface.html |
| 12:26.01 | mickeyl | i would like to use this as RFC |
| 12:26.08 | mickeyl | then gather input (very quickly) |
| 12:26.08 | koen | yes |
| 12:26.10 | mickeyl | and start coding |
| 12:26.17 | koen | g-p-m also has brightness stuf nowadays |
| 12:26.39 | mickeyl | i just thought it would be nice to have it a bit more common, i.e. |
| 12:26.42 | mickeyl | use |
| 12:26.51 | koen | http://hughsient.livejournal.com/11986.html |
| 12:26.52 | mickeyl | org.freemsmartphone. |
| 12:26.56 | mickeyl | etc. |
| 12:27.10 | mickeyl | to make it easier for kde and qt folks using this interface ;) |
| 12:27.34 | hrw|work | mickeyl: I want power and backlight support atleast - so my progear will get it |
| 12:29.18 | mickeyl | for sure |
| 12:30.07 | *** join/#openmoko _MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-176-184.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 12:30.27 | hrw|work | there is lid switch in progear but my lack lid cover and I cant find lid switch in case so I ignore it |
| 12:31.03 | koen | mickeyl: reply to "Re: [Gpe-list] gpe-conf 0.2.3 release?" |
| 12:31.43 | mickeyl | ok |
| 12:31.50 | mickeyl | i guess it's time for me to subscribe to gpe anyway |
| 12:32.09 | koen | http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/gpe-list/2007-January/000152.html |
| 12:32.13 | mickeyl | thanks |
| 12:32.46 | mickeyl | *tap* |
| 12:32.48 | mickeyl | *tap* |
| 12:32.51 | mickeyl | *tap* |
| 12:32.59 | rwhitby | kaboom! |
| 12:33.38 | koen | mickeyl: I wonder why apache is so slow on ltg |
| 12:33.45 | koen | ssh connects immediately |
| 12:34.14 | *** join/#openmoko darmou (n=darmou@ppp194-244.lns3.mel4.internode.on.net) |
| 12:34.53 | CM | It is ridiculously slow.. |
| 12:35.16 | rwhitby | koen: maybe 96 people just clicked on that link thinking it might be a neo release announcement ;-) |
| 12:36.49 | xkr47 | :) |
| 12:37.22 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 12:40.51 | *** join/#openmoko lardman (n=lardman@138.38.73.178) |
| 12:54.07 | koen | for all the people wanting to have a camera in their phone: http://web.mac.com/aaronandpatty/iWeb/What%20the%20Duck/Comic%20Strips/3F4194CD-04A1-48C4-878A-6073CEC92603_files/WTD125.gif |
| 12:57.44 | CM | Hehe |
| 12:58.33 | mickeyl | cute |
| 13:01.16 | mjr | hehe |
| 13:02.20 | koen | mickeyl: btw, the omap2420 iva can encode mpeg4 at 30fps |
| 13:02.25 | koen | mickeyl: using closed ti codecs, of course |
| 13:03.04 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@wohnheim58.fh-rosenheim.de) |
| 13:04.36 | CM | At VGA even? |
| 13:04.42 | aloril | koen: yeah, is there any serious USB camera? (with reasonable price) |
| 13:04.43 | koen | afaik, yes |
| 13:05.03 | koen | usb? |
| 13:05.45 | koen | mickeyl: will v2 have firewire? |
| 13:08.35 | *** join/#openmoko Laibsch (n=Laibsch@R76b2.r.ppp-pool.de) |
| 13:09.15 | CM | koen: http://www.engineerlive.com/homepage/features/12243/3g--is-your-application-processor-really-necessary.thtml |
| 13:09.24 | mickeyl | hrh |
| 13:09.25 | mickeyl | heh |
| 13:09.27 | mickeyl | firewire |
| 13:09.30 | mickeyl | crazy |
| 13:09.50 | aloril | koen: linux support for it too? |
| 13:09.53 | CM | I thought it was dying out.. |
| 13:10.27 | mickeyl | that probably depends on how ethernet shapes in the near future |
| 13:10.39 | mickeyl | firewire is still the preferred interface for audio and video, but that could change with new protocols over IP |
| 13:10.57 | mickeyl | latency and jitter being the issue here |
| 13:11.11 | mickeyl | which is -- naturally -- uncontrollable yet over the ethernet MAC |
| 13:11.17 | mickeyl | s/naturally/by design/ |
| 13:11.19 | koen | mickeyl: use ethernet over firewire :) |
| 13:12.38 | mickeyl | http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/gpe-list/2007-January/000153.html |
| 13:14.45 | mickeyl | *yawn* |
| 13:14.48 | mickeyl | any news from MacWorld yet? |
| 13:14.56 | mickeyl | it did start today didn't it? |
| 13:15.10 | koen | it did |
| 13:15.19 | mickeyl | good. |
| 13:15.20 | Stephmw | any news yet? |
| 13:15.23 | koen | or it will |
| 13:15.33 | koen | USA still sleeping |
| 13:16.14 | Stephmw | I wanna have my fullscreen tactile 60gb ipod video :) |
| 13:17.40 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 13:17.52 | koen | grrr |
| 13:18.12 | koen | I hate it when the person doing the payments is on holiday |
| 13:18.18 | koen | the _only_ person |
| 13:19.14 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:19.26 | buz_ | if the itv can decode mpeg4-avc at 1080i i might get one |
| 13:19.55 | buz_ | if it cant, well theres other things that can't do it either which likely are easier to use with linux |
| 13:21.07 | buz_ | id like to see an opensource media player that can do it |
| 13:21.49 | buz_ | and use the neo as remote control hehe |
| 13:40.03 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 13:49.46 | *** join/#openmoko vininim (n=vininim@pdpc/supporter/student/vininim) |
| 13:53.52 | *** join/#openmoko rwthw (n=hjg@p54BC8021.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:01.00 | CM | Soon 100 ppl here :) |
| 14:05.37 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth_ (n=daijobu@c-75-71-176-184.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 15:09.28 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@fsf/member/bkuhn/bkuhn) |
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| 16:51.30 | *** part/#openmoko billstevenson (n=billstev@70.44.133.14.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net) |
| 16:55.39 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@84-12-191-249.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 16:57.00 | *** join/#openmoko buz_ (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:58.50 | xorAxAx | hmm, does anyone know if the n770/n800 ships a usable calendaring app or if there is an opensource one? |
| 17:02.11 | koen | yes, no, yes |
| 17:02.58 | xorAxAx | which one do you recommend, koen? :) |
| 17:03.11 | koen | on the nokia? |
| 17:03.14 | koen | gpe-calendar |
| 17:03.41 | xorAxAx | yes, on the nokia |
| 17:04.12 | xorAxAx | datebk won :) |
| 17:04.23 | xorAxAx | is there nothing more flexible? :) |
| 17:04.54 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_alt (n=m@195.227.105.180) |
| 17:06.25 | koen | nope |
| 17:06.57 | xorAxAx | so its completly unusable :) |
| 17:08.05 | koen | why? |
| 17:08.25 | koen | it can read all my .ics files from webdav |
| 17:08.53 | xorAxAx | because datebk has 10 times more features, and i use many of them |
| 17:09.14 | koen | so install datebk |
| 17:19.57 | *** join/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@datenfreihafen.org) |
| 17:20.11 | *** join/#openmoko alphaone (n=daniel@datenfreihafen.org) |
| 17:20.18 | *** join/#openmoko Shoragan (n=shoragan@datenfreihafen.org) |
| 17:28.21 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
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| 17:40.05 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=m@195.227.105.180) |
| 17:44.00 | koen | mickeyl: FIC is screwed, apple released the iphone |
| 17:44.09 | koen | and some 'internet navigator' |
| 17:44.31 | xorAxAx | weeee, i want to have the iphone!!1111one |
| 17:44.51 | xorAxAx | </random thoughts of a consumer whore who believes that the almighty apple god jobs exists> |
| 17:46.04 | *** join/#openmoko vargr (n=vargr@dsl092-109-027.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 17:47.19 | *** join/#openmoko vol (n=shaun@cpe-74-70-29-115.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 17:56.29 | Sufflope | anyone following Jobs' keynote ? He's showing the iPhone |
| 17:56.39 | koen | yep |
| 17:56.41 | koen | 160dpi |
| 17:56.42 | koen | lame |
| 17:56.44 | koen | ;) |
| 17:56.44 | Sufflope | quite impressive (althought not free of course) |
| 17:57.27 | vargr | might tide me over until I can get the FIC phone |
| 17:57.38 | *** join/#openmoko jtokash2 (n=jtokash@corporate.homestead-inc.com) |
| 17:58.28 | Sufflope | I was ready to buy the FIC the day it is released, but the iPhone knows how to talk to my weaknesses :D |
| 17:58.49 | *** join/#openmoko jtokash (n=jtokash@corporate.homestead-inc.com) |
| 17:59.24 | Sufflope | (the fact OSX is beginning to annoy me can help FIC stand a good chance :)) |
| 18:00.02 | Stephmw | looks nice enough, http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/01/dsc_0182.jpg |
| 18:00.26 | koen | 'slide to unlock' |
| 18:01.18 | xorAxAx | http://media.macrumorslive.com/p/1168365431.jpg |
| 18:01.27 | xorAxAx | http://media.macrumorslive.com/p/1168364939.jpg |
| 18:01.34 | xorAxAx | images of the iphone |
| 18:02.57 | Sufflope | OMG Libre Software God, if you exist, deliver me from the temptation |
| 18:03.31 | vargr | I see no other option than to get both of them. |
| 18:04.20 | Sufflope | lol |
| 18:05.11 | Sufflope | koen you said 160dpi is lame, I can't find the fic's dpi on the press information, what is it already ? |
| 18:05.52 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:08.05 | *** join/#openmoko cbpage (n=cpage@netblock-68-183-40-91.dslextreme.com) |
| 18:08.55 | cbpage | http://www.macrumorslive.com/ - openmoko's competition (prolly mentioned to death already) |
| 18:08.56 | mickeyl | Active Area (HxV) 43.2 X 57.6 mm |
| 18:08.56 | mickeyl | Number of Dots (HxV) 480 x RGB x 640 dot |
| 18:08.56 | mickeyl | Dot Pitch (HxV) 0.03 X 0.09 mm |
| 18:10.05 | xorAxAx | 18:56:41 < koen> 160dpi |
| 18:10.06 | xorAxAx | 18:56:42 < koen> lame |
| 18:10.21 | vargr | an awesome product, but not likely to be open enough for my tastes |
| 18:10.35 | mickeyl | i agree |
| 18:10.58 | cbpage | winmobile is going to hurt tho |
| 18:11.07 | mickeyl | winmobile??? |
| 18:11.11 | mickeyl | they're using winmobile? |
| 18:11.12 | Sufflope | micke1 thanks but I don't feel like converting this data into dpi :D |
| 18:11.19 | Sufflope | no, OSX |
| 18:11.31 | mickeyl | Sufflope: ~280 i think |
| 18:11.34 | cbpage | yeah... that's what i mean... winmobile is going to get it's ass kicked |
| 18:11.43 | mickeyl | ah right |
| 18:11.46 | mickeyl | i hope so :) |
| 18:12.00 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p85.212.133.97.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 18:12.07 | xorAxAx | koen: so who is right? |
| 18:12.39 | mickeyl | 160 for the MacPhone |
| 18:12.40 | mickeyl | ? |
| 18:13.28 | Sufflope | I guess I'll have to spend a few hours deliberately looking at OSX and iTunes' problems I'm fed up about, to resist to this iPhone :D |
| 18:13.57 | cbpage | yeah ;) |
| 18:14.55 | Sufflope | and OpenMoko will have to give its best too :D |
| 18:15.23 | mickeyl | yeah, it's pretty much 280 |
| 18:15.39 | mickeyl | just recalculated |
| 18:15.55 | Sufflope | thanks |
| 18:16.51 | Sufflope | impressive, iPhone's pictures look quite beautiful, with almost half dpi |
| 18:17.04 | cbpage | 160 dpi is still good... i wonder if they're both 480x640 |
| 18:17.23 | cbpage | hummm... lemme work that out |
| 18:17.33 | *** join/#openmoko jthomas (n=jthomas@hotel.sierrabravo.net) |
| 18:17.55 | cbpage | it's widescreen so i can't :P |
| 18:18.00 | mickeyl | heh |
| 18:18.55 | mickeyl | i don't agree with their decision to leave out a keyboard though |
| 18:19.06 | mickeyl | (yes, i didn't agree with FIC's decision as well, but who am i .... :)) |
| 18:19.14 | Sufflope | it's REALLY sexy... I guess vargr was right, I'll have to get both :-D |
| 18:19.31 | *** join/#openmoko kousi (n=vdfgd@66-227-225-218.static.cdwr.mi.charter.com) |
| 18:21.07 | vargr | yeah, and I've got a feeling it (and openmoko phones) will be a heck of a lot more developer-friendly than all the ones we've been struggling with in the past |
| 18:21.36 | vargr | here's to the end of all the awful lock-in! |
| 18:23.08 | Sufflope | I am myself no developper, but I have a dying Smartphone running Windows Smartphone |
| 18:23.09 | jthomas | anyone seen video of the iPhone, and can comment in comparison to the upcoming OpenMoKo interface? |
| 18:23.41 | Sufflope | it's a real pain since I deleted my last Windows partition so an open phone with an SSH client would be a dream :D |
| 18:23.44 | cbpage | apple went along *some* of the same lines |
| 18:23.53 | cbpage | i.e. all screen, only one button... |
| 18:24.01 | jthomas | yeah so i read |
| 18:24.11 | jthomas | how about expected base applications? |
| 18:24.22 | Sufflope | for the iPhone : Mail, Safari,.... |
| 18:24.25 | jthomas | how about *eye candy* which is such a trademark of OS X |
| 18:24.27 | Sufflope | it's running OSX |
| 18:24.54 | Sufflope | don't know if Exposé will be available :D |
| 18:25.02 | jthomas | how will the OpenMoKo eye candy be, considering we're starting with a "new" WM? |
| 18:25.36 | jthomas | How about processing power etc, which is better, the FIC 1973 or the iPhone? |
| 18:26.01 | cbpage | iphone has a multi-touch screen and it sounds like they're using it a lot. and the iphone *has* to have much more processing power to do all this |
| 18:26.10 | jthomas | does the OpenMoKo/FIC have a booth at CES? |
| 18:26.11 | koen | mickeyl: "slide to unlock" |
| 18:26.41 | jthomas | yeah I would think so (more processing power), but will it be lower cost when its all done? :( |
| 18:27.08 | jthomas | What is multi-touch? hit more than one place at a time, like using a [shift] key or something? |
| 18:27.32 | Sufflope | yeah, usual touchscreen can only sense one finger |
| 18:27.49 | xorAxAx | and touchpads had multisscreen for years |
| 18:28.02 | koen | a usual TS interpolates between multiple touches |
| 18:28.11 | koen | s/interpolates/averages/ |
| 18:28.21 | jthomas | gotcha |
| 18:28.24 | xorAxAx | koen: are you sure that your driver isnt doing that? |
| 18:29.21 | jthomas | is the FIC/OpenMoKo at CES? |
| 18:29.27 | koen | xorAxAx: it's true that tslib isn't for multitouch, yet |
| 18:29.36 | koen | xorAxAx: but atm it's an hardware issue |
| 18:29.38 | sannes | I have this daily wishfulthinking where I look at the topic and read Direct-Sale World Wide and not the rest :P |
| 18:29.39 | Sufflope | many touchscreens don't work well with multiple fingers simply because of the technology they use to detect |
| 18:29.55 | Sufflope | lol sannes :) |
| 18:29.58 | *** join/#openmoko timtimred (n=On3@62-31-181-7.cable.ubr02.chel.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:31.06 | xorAxAx | koen: i mean synaptics touchpads |
| 18:31.20 | timtimred | that apple phone looks god eh. |
| 18:31.27 | timtimred | good! not quite god like |
| 18:31.38 | *** join/#openmoko xerom (n=jack@bl4-145-217.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 18:31.41 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-176-184.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 18:32.18 | sannes | Unfortunatly I return to the hard reality of www.openmoko.org still asking me to stay tuned.. |
| 18:32.43 | Sufflope | I was waiting for a mac <=12" laptop, maybe at the end ? :D |
| 18:32.58 | koen | I'd sell my 15" mbp in a hardbeat |
| 18:33.05 | buz_ | any price on the iphone? seems sweeeeet |
| 18:33.09 | sannes | what is this about the iphone, any links? |
| 18:33.12 | koen | (mostly because the 15" doesn't fit in my camera bag) |
| 18:33.14 | buz_ | http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-apple-iphone/ |
| 18:33.24 | koen | http://www.macrumorslive.com/ |
| 18:33.26 | Sufflope | the prices are coming |
| 18:33.28 | timtimred | i love my 15" mbp. i wouldnt sell it. |
| 18:33.43 | timtimred | you'd have to prize it out of my cold dead bloody fists |
| 18:34.17 | Sufflope | I'm fed up with big laptops (a 15" quite good with well-supported hardware under Linux aside from that) |
| 18:34.29 | sannes | can the apple-iphone run openmoko then? |
| 18:34.35 | Sufflope | sannes lol |
| 18:34.37 | koen | I still love my previous 12" powerbook |
| 18:34.39 | cbpage | probably not |
| 18:35.13 | Sufflope | feed://keynote.mac4ever.org/rss/index.xml if there is any french speaking person here :) |
| 18:35.23 | *** join/#openmoko corndog (n=dstubbs@CPE00600808ab53-CM000a7365c104.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 18:35.25 | koen | MACHINE=apple-iphone bitake openmoko-image :) |
| 18:35.47 | timtimred | can i write apps for it in xcode though!!!! im guessing not!!! |
| 18:36.05 | koen | for the iphone? |
| 18:36.07 | koen | you can |
| 18:36.26 | buz_ | this IS the competition for openmoko |
| 18:36.46 | timtimred | awesome! |
| 18:36.53 | koen | mickeyl: no dvi, so it's useless for my desk |
| 18:37.05 | Sufflope | buz_ I would say the iPhone is the competition for Windows Mobile Smartphones |
| 18:37.17 | timtimred | in that case it is competing cos i wont buy an openmoko this month if i can write apps for an iphone in xcode |
| 18:37.18 | cbpage | that's no contest at all |
| 18:37.21 | buz_ | symbian is competition for winmobile |
| 18:37.24 | cbpage | this phone *looks* like fic's phone |
| 18:37.32 | buz_ | the iphone looks like it's currently in class of its own |
| 18:37.37 | koen | timtimred: you can write apps for openmoko in xcode as well |
| 18:37.41 | buz_ | (and i'm decidedly NOT an apple fanboy) |
| 18:38.07 | timtimred | koen: yeah but i'd not do that kind of thing in xcode |
| 18:38.17 | timtimred | too mcuh initial fannying aroung :) |
| 18:38.22 | timtimred | around |
| 18:38.37 | Sufflope | still no price for the iPhone |
| 18:38.48 | Sufflope | rumors talk about 499-599$ |
| 18:38.58 | *** join/#openmoko ruskie (n=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |
| 18:39.23 | cbpage | yeah i can't see this being much less unlocked |
| 18:39.36 | cbpage | maybe a cingular version'll be less (subsidies and all) |
| 18:39.46 | sannes | hm, my phone has to be open source, or else I can't look down on other people .... |
| 18:40.37 | Sufflope | sannes that's a point indeed |
| 18:40.52 | *** join/#openmoko noidd (n=red@thievery.criticalintegration.com) |
| 18:40.55 | noidd | Greetings |
| 18:40.59 | noidd | any leaks yet? :-) |
| 18:42.04 | kousi | Has there been a projected price of the second version of the fic |
| 18:42.37 | buz_ | omfg the itv costs 300usd? |
| 18:42.40 | buz_ | gimme gimme gimme |
| 18:42.49 | buz_ | thats basically a mac mini |
| 18:43.30 | mickeyl | kousi: no, the hw isn't even spec'ed yet. I think it'll be at in the 600-800 category, since it'll a fully loaded beast. |
| 18:43.40 | kousi | ah |
| 18:43.51 | Sufflope | When I see how iTunes sucks I am greatly disinterested in Apple TV :) |
| 18:43.58 | xorAxAx | yeah, allegedly wifi/bluetooth/touchscreen etc. pp. |
| 18:44.00 | kousi | Makes me sad... |
| 18:44.33 | buz_ | Sufflope: yeah, however, if that is really a x86 box (and intel prolly doesnt supply anymore arm, right?) this is essentially a very cheap neat linux box |
| 18:44.45 | buz_ | and even if its something else, it'll be weeks before it runs mythv |
| 18:45.11 | mickeyl | kousi: v1 will be a huge experiment and we need to concentrate on making that a success :) v2 is in the minds of marketing, but not in the minds of engineering |
| 18:45.17 | jthomas | omg the iphone is so thin... can we have that, FIC? lol |
| 18:45.17 | Sufflope | buz_: indeed I didn't see this side of the story... interesting, finally :) |
| 18:45.28 | buz_ | if that thing is really 300$ |
| 18:45.34 | buz_ | i'm soooo preordering one today |
| 18:46.26 | buz_ | do they have iphone hardware? or is this really just vaporware? |
| 18:46.26 | *** join/#openmoko xerom (n=jack@bl4-145-217.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 18:46.29 | kousi | Right, how is the iphone going to affect sales of the 1973?... as the iphone has wifi built in...(a must have in my opinion, though I would certainly buy a 1973 over an iphone....because....open source...and all yay) |
| 18:46.41 | *** join/#openmoko rox (n=rox@84.52.147.74) |
| 18:47.17 | vargr | here comes the apple phone price! |
| 18:47.21 | buz_ | 4gb iphone is 500$ |
| 18:47.22 | kousi | I would hate to see this type of 'experiment' stifled... |
| 18:47.27 | buz_ | i might just lose 800usd today |
| 18:47.30 | Sufflope | vaporware ? Jobs has been playing with an iPhone for the past 30 minutes |
| 18:47.38 | timtimred | 4gb ? i want more! |
| 18:47.45 | buz_ | 8G for 599 |
| 18:47.48 | buz_ | shipping in june |
| 18:47.52 | timtimred | perfec! |
| 18:48.02 | buz_ | ok right |
| 18:48.05 | timtimred | june in terms of apple means august. maybe |
| 18:48.07 | buz_ | now where can i order the apple tv |
| 18:48.11 | kousi | Both shipping in June or just the 8? |
| 18:48.22 | Sufflope | ok we'll have Fic's second phone before the iPhone :D |
| 18:48.23 | buz_ | both as i'm told |
| 18:48.39 | buz_ | ok fic, now you know, we want 3mpixel cam and wifi |
| 18:48.46 | Sufflope | and the Apple Store still closed... :D |
| 18:48.53 | jthomas | is FIC really that close to a second hardware platform? I agree, WIFI is a **need** |
| 18:49.08 | buz_ | i'm pragmatic |
| 18:49.11 | jthomas | well the camera should be on THIS one already... |
| 18:49.16 | vargr | not until June? |
| 18:49.19 | buz_ | gimme a phone that does everything i want and i will buy it |
| 18:49.25 | vargr | I'll have 3 FIC phones by then |
| 18:49.27 | buz_ | (unless it runs on winmobile, then it cant do what i want) |
| 18:49.42 | Sufflope | quite same here |
| 18:49.51 | Psi_ | how many models of this phone are there going to be? |
| 18:50.00 | buz_ | Psi_: which one |
| 18:50.03 | Sufflope | but free software would be even greater |
| 18:50.04 | buz_ | iphone or neo? |
| 18:50.12 | Psi_ | neo |
| 18:50.30 | buz_ | just one for starters |
| 18:50.30 | jthomas | "FCC approval takes 2 months" how is FIC doing here?? |
| 18:50.47 | buz_ | jthomas: it is believed the gsm chip being preapproved should speed it up |
| 18:50.55 | koen | 4GB model - $499 |
| 18:50.56 | Sufflope | OK, the iPhone in Europe by the end of 2007... bye iPhone, welcome Neo :) |
| 18:50.58 | Psi_ | buz_, any idea how long after the first one it will be before the 2nd model? |
| 18:50.59 | jthomas | cool! when is it for sale? |
| 18:51.11 | buz_ | Psi_: nobody knows |
| 18:51.32 | timtimred | \gonna order my phone as soon as the store comes up! |
| 18:51.34 | sannes | jthomas: *sniff* ETA January *sniff* |
| 18:51.40 | timtimred | or it'll go back *months* |
| 18:52.05 | jthomas | i dunno... not that I want the apple phone, but how are we going to compete? we need Wifi, Camera, GB of storage... |
| 18:52.20 | jthomas | and we're already at $350 (expected) |
| 18:52.49 | buz_ | jthomas: 8G of storage will cost about 50$ in june |
| 18:52.50 | cbpage | $350 unlocked... if tmo takes it it'd be <=$199 |
| 18:52.56 | cbpage | (on contract) |
| 18:53.00 | timtimred | you cant compete cause FIC dont buy as much flash memory as apple |
| 18:53.01 | buz_ | cbpage: they cant |
| 18:53.04 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jae@53-89.netblk-69-41-89.coolaccess.net) |
| 18:53.09 | timtimred | and other stuff |
| 18:53.10 | timtimred | :D |
| 18:53.13 | buz_ | timtimred: i can buy 2G of flash for 15USD RETAIL RIGHT NOW |
| 18:53.16 | jthomas | openness is great for us, but most want solidness and OSX is pretty solid... |
| 18:53.30 | buz_ | and flash prices have halfed each 6 months for the past years |
| 18:53.35 | timtimred | you can sure. but you gonna get a better price than apple? |
| 18:53.37 | vargr | the sooner we get hold of the openmoko SDK, the better the software it'll have by the time the iphone is available |
| 18:53.43 | buz_ | timtimred: doesnt really matter |
| 18:53.46 | koen | the iphone doesn't have an fpga |
| 18:53.52 | buz_ | i'm prepared to pay premium for a open phone |
| 18:53.53 | koen | and no v8 |
| 18:53.55 | mjr | nor a v8 |
| 18:53.55 | Psi_ | i wonder if it will be possible to use lazarus to write apps for the phone |
| 18:53.59 | buz_ | if it DOES what i WANT |
| 18:54.00 | koen | mjr: :) |
| 18:54.22 | buz_ | koen: looking at the interface, you'll need a v8 generator to power it |
| 18:54.35 | buz_ | oh wait |
| 18:54.39 | mjr | anyway, good that fic'll have at least the timing drop on apple... |
| 18:54.45 | buz_ | the 599$ for the iphone means a 2 year cingular contract |
| 18:54.48 | cbpage | yeah |
| 18:54.55 | noidd | screw that |
| 18:55.04 | buz_ | screw you apple |
| 18:55.09 | noidd | I've never been tied into a cellphone contract and i'm not starting now. |
| 18:55.14 | buz_ | i'd pay 500USD without thining a second |
| 18:55.17 | buz_ | but not 800USD |
| 18:55.33 | buz_ | and cingular looks to be exlcusive cell vendor |
| 18:55.42 | timtimred | phone contracts here == free/cheap mobile |
| 18:55.49 | koen | 500usd = 500 euro |
| 18:55.54 | koen | ~change 500 usd to eur |
| 18:55.54 | xorAxAx | koen: BZZZT |
| 18:56.01 | koen | ~change 500 eur to usd |
| 18:56.08 | koen | xorAxAx: in practice it is |
| 18:56.09 | cbpage | that's what they usually sell for when exported tho |
| 18:56.27 | cbpage | (never mind that they come from china) |
| 18:56.40 | buz_ | the iphone probably costs about 350USD to make |
| 18:56.43 | xorAxAx | thats a different story |
| 18:56.43 | timtimred | apple have a plant in ireland too. |
| 18:56.48 | timtimred | for manufacturing. |
| 18:56.56 | Sufflope | prices in dollar usually get changed with a rate of 1:1 here in Europe (we must be richer than US people !) |
| 18:57.05 | buz_ | Sufflope: no we pay more taxes |
| 18:57.15 | Sufflope | ? |
| 18:57.20 | buz_ | timtimred: not even for european market they produce any product i've seen in switzerland in china |
| 18:57.32 | buz_ | Sufflope: ~19% vat for most of EU |
| 18:57.35 | buz_ | <9% for us |
| 18:57.46 | Sufflope | I mean, a computer sold 1000$ will be sold 1000€ here |
| 18:57.53 | timtimred | buz_: its in cork in ireland. ive been there. promise :) |
| 18:57.58 | buz_ | yeah partly because of the taxes |
| 18:58.02 | cbpage | have they closed it yet tho? |
| 18:58.06 | koen | or they state 'import taxes' |
| 18:58.14 | cbpage | they *used* to have factories in the us afterall |
| 18:58.22 | buz_ | tariffs are actually not such a big component anymoe |
| 18:58.25 | timtimred | when i went there they were churning our imacs |
| 18:58.28 | buz_ | <5% on normal goods |
| 18:58.29 | timtimred | tho |
| 18:58.47 | Sufflope | well well well I think taxes are a perfect scapegoat |
| 18:59.14 | buz_ | uhm you do realize that if taxes are 10% more you WILL pay at least 10% more? |
| 18:59.29 | timtimred | oh yeah after googling it might be closed!!! |
| 18:59.43 | buz_ | what might be closed |
| 18:59.48 | timtimred | cork plant |
| 19:00.11 | cbpage | they cut 33% in 1999 |
| 19:00.24 | timtimred | aye. last time i did apple work was >6 years ago. |
| 19:00.35 | timtimred | so my knowledge is somewhat out of date |
| 19:00.36 | xorAxAx | everybody knows that apple employs small childs in asia |
| 19:00.46 | xorAxAx | :) |
| 19:01.00 | Sufflope | buz_: I didn't know about such low taxes... I must be wrong, I'll wait till the next review about price discrepencies to figure it all out :D |
| 19:02.21 | noidd | I'm guessing there has been no more news about the hardware, leaked photos or anything? |
| 19:02.24 | mjr | (on cellular contracts, in here tie-in contracts have been outright banned for quite a while; they have made a limited time exception with 3g phones to drive adoption, though...) |
| 19:02.27 | buz_ | Sufflope: well we do pay somewhat more here |
| 19:02.30 | noidd | Just wait until the 31st? |
| 19:02.36 | buz_ | just not exactly as much more as most think |
| 19:02.59 | Sufflope | finally, no ultra small laptop ? I'm quite disappointed |
| 19:04.12 | buz_ | apple somehow doesnt get that i dont want to lug around 2.5kg everyday |
| 19:04.54 | Sufflope | Steevie, please could you make the iPhone a bit larger and put a keyboard on it ? :D |
| 19:05.20 | xorAxAx | mjr: in .fi, everybody has a mobile anyway ... :) |
| 19:05.35 | timtimred | does $599 include the 2 year contract? :D |
| 19:05.36 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-191-125.cust.broadway.se) |
| 19:05.42 | xorAxAx | timtimred: yes |
| 19:05.47 | timtimred | as in paid for? |
| 19:05.48 | buz_ | no selling your soul is on top of it |
| 19:05.59 | timtimred | in the price? |
| 19:05.59 | mjr | xorAxAx, true |
| 19:06.08 | Sufflope | well, it includes the 2y bind, not the monthly paiments :D |
| 19:06.19 | vargr | definite advantage to the neo there |
| 19:06.24 | timtimred | i wonder what uk telco they will use. |
| 19:06.29 | Stephmw | 2yr contracts is so US... |
| 19:06.37 | buz_ | now add cam and wifi to neo and it will hold up just fine |
| 19:06.39 | Stephmw | ... or europe - 8 years |
| 19:06.40 | timtimred | well i get contract phones because it works out cheaper. |
| 19:07.03 | timtimred | if you want new phones the *only* way to get non crap phones here is to get a contract or pay some stupid price. |
| 19:07.09 | Sufflope | no, in France you often have 2y contracts too, to have cheaper phones (but you can have shorter contracts of course) |
| 19:07.48 | timtimred | Sufflope: yeah. my k800i this year was free, because of a contract |
| 19:08.25 | Stephmw | ah well, cheap video ipod for me |
| 19:08.41 | *** join/#openmoko cjb (n=cjb@1cc-dhcp-93.media.mit.edu) |
| 19:08.47 | Sufflope | no computer, no leopard |
| 19:08.49 | Sufflope | so sad |
| 19:08.51 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar_ (n=demitar@c-212-031-191-125.cust.broadway.se) |
| 19:09.20 | timtimred | leopard isnt due. |
| 19:09.31 | cjb | Okay, Apple's keynote was depressing. |
| 19:09.31 | buz_ | the itv looks like it IS a computer |
| 19:09.40 | timtimred | not till later this year |
| 19:10.06 | cjb | Do we have an accelerometer in the OpenMoko phone? That stuff looked awesome. |
| 19:10.14 | buz_ | now gimme back that apple shop |
| 19:10.24 | buz_ | i wanna know what the thing ocsts in switzerland |
| 19:10.46 | xorAxAx | buz_: its an imac |
| 19:10.56 | Sufflope | I didn't talk about Leopard or laptops due, but about what I would have liked to see :) |
| 19:11.02 | *** join/#openmoko khalek (n=jsg@dsl-210-15-216-215-static.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 19:11.07 | xorAxAx | buz_: 1000 CHF :) |
| 19:11.20 | buz_ | xorAxAx: core 2 duo mac mini is cheaper than that |
| 19:11.25 | xorAxAx | buz_: hmm |
| 19:11.39 | xorAxAx | i meant mac mini, yes |
| 19:11.51 | buz_ | i can get it for about 800 chf now |
| 19:11.54 | buz_ | which is a good price |
| 19:11.57 | buz_ | if you need it |
| 19:12.00 | timtimred | minis arnt core 2 yet :( |
| 19:12.01 | buz_ | which i dont |
| 19:12.04 | timtimred | are they? |
| 19:12.09 | buz_ | who cares |
| 19:12.18 | buz_ | its not like you use a mini for rendering or some such |
| 19:12.31 | Sufflope | the end |
| 19:12.35 | Sufflope | and the store is open |
| 19:12.37 | buz_ | ok |
| 19:12.47 | buz_ | Sufflope: swiss store still down |
| 19:12.48 | buz_ | damnit |
| 19:12.53 | Sufflope | err no sorry :D |
| 19:12.54 | timtimred | you are right! not being a graphic artist i totally wouldnt |
| 19:13.13 | Sufflope | confused by the slow refresh :D |
| 19:16.09 | Sufflope | French store is up |
| 19:16.22 | Sufflope | iTV 299€ |
| 19:16.55 | Sufflope | (I wonder if educationnal discounts apply on it :D) |
| 19:17.30 | timtimred | yeah its up. and grinding. |
| 19:17.58 | timtimred | Sufflope: probably. they extend to ipods already :) |
| 19:18.09 | Sufflope | shipped in February |
| 19:18.40 | buz_ | Sufflope: what country is that? |
| 19:19.31 | timtimred | buz_ they should do it everywhere |
| 19:19.57 | Sufflope | France |
| 19:20.17 | *** join/#openmoko pjz (n=pj@zachs.place.org) |
| 19:20.19 | timtimred | discount? |
| 19:20.24 | buz_ | 429chf in switzerland |
| 19:20.26 | buz_ | thats tempting |
| 19:20.32 | pjz | well, it's January 2007 |
| 19:20.35 | buz_ | not "omg wheres my credit card" |
| 19:20.43 | pjz | wheres my openmoko!? |
| 19:20.44 | pjz | =) |
| 19:20.59 | Stephmw | pjz: it'll still be january 2007 on 31st Jan 23:59:59.99 |
| 19:21.28 | pjz | true - is there any better ETA than 'January 2007' ? |
| 19:21.41 | Stephmw | nope |
| 19:22.01 | pjz | and... has anyone dug around on the FCC website to try and find the FCC license for the openmoko phone? |
| 19:22.09 | buz_ | ~change 429 CHF to EUR |
| 19:22.25 | buz_ | yeah |
| 19:22.27 | pjz | ~change 429 CHF to USD |
| 19:22.31 | xorAxAx | can you give me an IP for store.apple.com? |
| 19:22.35 | xorAxAx | mine is down |
| 19:22.43 | xorAxAx | (akamai gives us all different IPs) |
| 19:23.02 | Sufflope | wtf the AppleTV still costs 299€ on the education store :D |
| 19:23.12 | pjz | TV's not educational =) |
| 19:23.20 | buz_ | Sufflope: they recently did away with edu pricing for non computing stuff |
| 19:23.21 | Sufflope | iPod is ? :) |
| 19:23.56 | pjz | enh, the only thing the edu guys get a good deal on is applecare |
| 19:24.03 | Sufflope | well I'll have to wait the special store with bigger discounts (reserved to students to bot not the education one) to update :) |
| 19:24.05 | pjz | everything else is cheaper thru a corporate account |
| 19:24.57 | buz_ | pjz: thats not strictly true |
| 19:25.16 | buz_ | if your university is worth anything, they can get discounts below corporate prices for back too school |
| 19:25.43 | pjz | how much discount? corporate gets 10%, which is more than the standard educational discount |
| 19:25.47 | Sufflope | also 299€ on that store ! end of golden days :D |
| 19:25.59 | buz_ | pjz: up to 25% in the past |
| 19:26.06 | pjz | apple friends-n-family get 15%. wow, nice. |
| 19:26.22 | buz_ | well that is for peddling shitloads of stuff |
| 19:26.26 | pjz | .nod |
| 19:26.48 | buz_ | one time i bought ibook g4 at 1212 chf when retail was 1499 |
| 19:27.11 | pjz | so back to the openmoko - any news? fcc filings? |
| 19:27.34 | pjz | I don't see how it's going to be released this month if it hasn't made it to the FCC yet. |
| 19:27.41 | buz_ | well |
| 19:27.47 | buz_ | in most of the world, there aint no fcc |
| 19:28.07 | pjz | well, to be sold in the US it has to get tested |
| 19:29.05 | Stephmw | can probably get away with selling telecoms development kits |
| 19:29.20 | Stephmw | it's not a consumer device yet |
| 19:29.21 | Sufflope | well, only 5% of people live in the US :D |
| 19:29.26 | buz_ | i wager to say the majority here is not in the us |
| 19:29.38 | Stephmw | Sufflope: but, but - surely that's the top 5% that matter? |
| 19:29.46 | buz_ | not for cellphones |
| 19:29.52 | buz_ | european and asian markets are much more important |
| 19:30.00 | buz_ | the US is really backwater for cellphone sales |
| 19:30.51 | buz_ | Stephmw: mhh? |
| 19:31.17 | Stephmw | buz_: I was yanking your chain - *of* course the US mobile market is prehistoric |
| 19:31.22 | Stephmw | buz_: I'm in the UK |
| 19:31.24 | buz_ | ah |
| 19:31.48 | buz_ | ah now i read correctly ;= |
| 19:31.48 | buz_ | ) |
| 19:31.56 | Stephmw | ;) |
| 19:32.02 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth_ (n=daijobu@c-75-71-176-184.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 19:32.21 | Sufflope | Stephmw: of course only the top 5% matter ! that's why we don't bother about the US :) |
| 19:32.21 | Stephmw | I should've remembered </sarcasm> |
| 19:32.21 | xorAxAx | IP of store.apple.com please |
| 19:32.38 | Sufflope | 212.27.54.252 |
| 19:32.48 | xorAxAx | nice, thanks |
| 19:32.53 | Stephmw | store.apple.com.akadns.net (17.254.3.42) as well |
| 19:33.31 | Sufflope | LOL my mistake |
| 19:33.39 | Sufflope | I gave you the DNS server adress |
| 19:33.50 | Sufflope | I confirm 17.254.3.41 |
| 19:34.06 | Stephmw | yeah, they use akamai |
| 19:34.48 | xorAxAx | hmm, their shops dont answer me |
| 19:35.12 | Stephmw | might still be down |
| 19:35.17 | xorAxAx | then where did people get the prices? ":)" |
| 19:35.17 | Sufflope | they work pretty well here |
| 19:35.32 | Stephmw | xorAxAx: the keynote |
| 19:35.39 | buz_ | http://finance.google.com/finance?q=aapl interesting |
| 19:35.40 | Stephmw | xorAxAx: check engadget |
| 19:35.42 | xorAxAx | ah, ok |
| 19:35.45 | xorAxAx | engadget? |
| 19:35.49 | Stephmw | www.engadget.com |
| 19:35.54 | Stephmw | tech blog |
| 19:36.02 | Stephmw | lots of keynote photos |
| 19:37.18 | buz_ | i wonder what cpu there is in iphone |
| 19:37.35 | buz_ | that gui must be really cpu intensive |
| 19:38.35 | *** join/#openmoko thedaniel (n=daniel@38.98.1.19) |
| 19:39.06 | *** join/#openmoko Lars_G (n=lars@unaffiliated/lars-g/x-000001) |
| 19:39.16 | Stephmw | hey Lars_G |
| 19:39.20 | Lars_G | Hey |
| 19:39.28 | Lars_G | I come here just to feel the love and hope |
| 19:39.38 | Stephmw | lots of both |
| 19:39.44 | Stephmw | ... and iphone drooling |
| 19:39.48 | Lars_G | I'm fired up by the iPhone but hatefull of the cingular deal. |
| 19:39.50 | cjb | need something to cheer yourself up after the Apple keynote? :) |
| 19:39.56 | Lars_G | yep |
| 19:40.01 | Stephmw | Lars_G: yah, exclusive contracts suck |
| 19:40.09 | Lars_G | and afterall the Neo1973 is $240 cheaper. |
| 19:40.22 | Lars_G | too sad it is not out yet and has no wifi. but I wait with bathed breath |
| 19:40.38 | Stephmw | Lars_G: you're not comparing the unlocked price |
| 19:40.46 | buz_ | yes |
| 19:40.48 | Stephmw | Lars_G: iphone will likely be over $900 |
| 19:40.52 | buz_ | we dont need to sell our souls to cingular |
| 19:40.59 | Lars_G | I don't think they'll sell it unlocked |
| 19:41.06 | Lars_G | not with such a close deal |
| 19:41.11 | Stephmw | they'll pretty much have to in the EU |
| 19:41.27 | Lars_G | of course, and leave me (in latinamerica) to rot :( |
| 19:41.44 | Stephmw | Lars_G: international shipping... but it'll cost a bomb |
| 19:42.01 | Lars_G | No, even when i would've preferred it to be Qt/E based rather than gtk2 (only for the prospect of getting opera 9.1 in it) I'll definitively go with OpenMoko |
| 19:42.12 | Lars_G | I mean, I want devices I can modify to fix the stuff that chaffes me! |
| 19:42.25 | Lars_G | that's why i had linux on the ipaq before it was stolen, and I run rockbox on my iPod |
| 19:42.29 | buz_ | Lars_G: i venture to say we will get opera nonetheless |
| 19:42.53 | Lars_G | buz_: Well, if we use GTK2 here, we use X11 too. |
| 19:43.00 | buz_ | yes |
| 19:43.06 | Lars_G | we can easily compile Qt 3 or 4 for x11 on the device |
| 19:43.10 | buz_ | and there is an embedded opera for arm that links against qtx11 |
| 19:43.15 | buz_ | exactly |
| 19:43.19 | Lars_G | the problem would be convincing opera to release an ARM compile. |
| 19:43.25 | buz_ | they will |
| 19:43.39 | Lars_G | Yes but currently the arm opera is a deal to OEMs directly (much like fucked up netfront) |
| 19:43.51 | buz_ | i think they will release it |
| 19:43.54 | buz_ | maybe not for free |
| 19:44.00 | buz_ | but you will be able to get it |
| 19:44.06 | Lars_G | Also, with Qt or GTK here on the OpenMoko, we can use the great new PhoneMe in it |
| 19:44.08 | buz_ | they have always been very supportive of OS platforms |
| 19:44.11 | Lars_G | Oh I'd pay for it. |
| 19:44.25 | *** join/#openmoko Elrond (i=[fdcixYq@irc.fem.tu-ilmenau.de) |
| 19:44.28 | buz_ | so would i |
| 19:44.30 | Elrond | Evening people. |
| 19:44.36 | Lars_G | I have a question, since it says there might be OpenMoko minds in here. |
| 19:44.48 | Lars_G | Why particularily Matchbox? not that I dissagree, it's a sweet wm |
| 19:45.42 | Lars_G | buz_: What I see harder but we MIGHT manage I pray, is a deal with realplayer. to at least be able to get a buyable mpeg/realplayer codec to hook to an helix copy compiled to the OpenMoko |
| 19:46.12 | Lars_G | Is the apt-get derivate based off apt-get or off ipkg? |
| 19:47.29 | buz_ | will the battery life of the iphone be ipod like |
| 19:47.33 | buz_ | i.e. recharge twice daily? |
| 19:47.57 | Stephmw | 5hrs supposedly, 2 days standby |
| 19:48.08 | buz_ | yeah right |
| 19:48.08 | Lars_G | With what kind of use? |
| 19:48.15 | Lars_G | music play takes a BIG toll on the battery |
| 19:48.23 | Stephmw | wait until you play videos ;-) |
| 19:48.23 | buz_ | that screen must suck juice like nothing |
| 19:48.29 | Lars_G | yea |
| 19:48.30 | buz_ | and the gui as well |
| 19:48.38 | Lars_G | not the gui but the processors |
| 19:48.50 | Lars_G | with a full OS X there. ah well, quartz alone will suck the cpu dry |
| 19:49.24 | buz_ | i dont believe one second that there is osx on this thing |
| 19:49.26 | Elrond | 2 days standby. :-( |
| 19:49.29 | Stephmw | IMO it's OSX branded - but I can't see it being a trimmed osx |
| 19:49.57 | Lars_G | On the keynote it says it's "full" OS X |
| 19:50.01 | Elrond | Stephmw - The 2 days standby is for the neo? |
| 19:50.09 | Stephmw | Elrond: for the iphone |
| 19:50.13 | Stephmw | Elrond: keep up :) |
| 19:50.17 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 19:50.28 | Elrond | Any info on standby for neo? |
| 19:50.30 | Lars_G | It's sad about wi-fi for the Neo |
| 19:50.42 | Lars_G | it's all the fault of Broadcom's sucky driver policy |
| 19:50.53 | buz_ | Lars_G: i dont buy that |
| 19:51.04 | buz_ | personally i think it's engineering issues |
| 19:51.11 | Lars_G | I don't think it is. |
| 19:51.17 | Lars_G | Engineering wifi is not THAT hard |
| 19:51.38 | buz_ | bluetooth is easier and we still dont know for sure if it will have it (likely so though) |
| 19:51.40 | Elrond | buz_ - The FIX engineers seem to have done a good job, at leat, from what I can read on the archive. |
| 19:52.04 | Elrond | s/FIX/FIC/ |
| 19:52.24 | buz_ | what i dont really understand is the lack of camera |
| 19:52.29 | buz_ | good cameras are hard |
| 19:52.31 | buz_ | i know |
| 19:52.36 | Lars_G | So, Sean Moss is OM's dad? |
| 19:52.41 | buz_ | but people still buy htc's crap cams |
| 19:53.09 | Elrond | buz_ - Di yiz really want a crap cam in there for an extra $100 or so? |
| 19:53.13 | Lars_G | s/.*/I am the king of the world!/ |
| 19:53.20 | buz_ | for 100$ i want a good cam |
| 19:53.26 | Lars_G | hehehe I killed the bot? |
| 19:53.31 | cjb | Elrond: camera sensors cost more like $3 in bulk. |
| 19:53.37 | buz_ | heck i can get halfway usable digicams for 50USD |
| 19:53.41 | buz_ | COMPLETE ones |
| 19:53.45 | Elrond | cjb - including lens, etc? |
| 19:53.47 | Lars_G | buz_: that's the problem |
| 19:53.54 | Stephmw | buz_: at the necessary size? |
| 19:54.01 | Lars_G | buz_: Micro CMOS cameras are much much harder to make |
| 19:54.08 | cjb | Elrond: yeah. |
| 19:54.14 | Elrond | buz_ - I rather want more battery live. |
| 19:54.17 | Lars_G | you can get big cameras for cheap. Not micro ones. |
| 19:54.48 | buz_ | uhm small sensors are cheaper than big ones no? |
| 19:54.57 | cjb | Elrond: having a camera doesn't waste any battery life unless you tell v4l (or whatever) to turn the sensor on and start reading from it. |
| 19:56.01 | Lars_G | What about the ImCoSys? |
| 19:56.15 | buz_ | Lars_G: i literally live 15km from imcosys away |
| 19:56.19 | buz_ | i called them a few weeks back |
| 19:56.25 | Lars_G | and? |
| 19:56.26 | buz_ | that must be the unfriendliest tech company ever |
| 19:56.31 | Lars_G | :O |
| 19:56.35 | buz_ | no itnerest at ALL in selling phones if you ask me |
| 19:56.45 | Lars_G | I'm thinking on dying with a motorola A1200 for now |
| 19:57.14 | Lars_G | At least they didn't make me jump thorough hoops to get the source off the page |
| 19:57.44 | buz_ | imcosys supposedly charges several 10K for the sdk |
| 19:57.51 | Lars_G | :O |
| 19:57.52 | Lars_G | right |
| 19:58.07 | buz_ | (not that they would actually answer anything like that on the phone) |
| 19:58.51 | buz_ | well they dont have to put the kernel on their site |
| 19:59.01 | Elrond | cjb - It wastes battery life by wasting space. --> smaller battery. |
| 19:59.23 | buz_ | Elrond: then please explain me the HOLE in the case of neo |
| 19:59.29 | jjazz | buz_: How do you think they're distributing source? |
| 19:59.37 | buz_ | customers only |
| 19:59.39 | buz_ | or something like that |
| 20:00.01 | jjazz | buz_: It's possible. |
| 20:00.08 | Elrond | buz_ - Huh? Where did you see a "HOLE?"? |
| 20:00.36 | noidd | I hax0red the CNC on the production lin3 |
| 20:00.39 | noidd | :-D |
| 20:00.41 | buz_ | that white thing |
| 20:00.45 | buz_ | looks weird to me |
| 20:00.51 | buz_ | i always thought that was a hole |
| 20:00.53 | cjb | Elrond: boggle. okay. |
| 20:00.54 | buz_ | and asked myself WHY |
| 20:01.02 | buz_ | below the fic logo |
| 20:01.21 | noidd | so you can attach it to your keys |
| 20:01.32 | buz_ | bottle opener |
| 20:01.33 | noidd | the whole phon eis only 2 inches long -D |
| 20:02.16 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 20:02.45 | Elrond | cjb - Anything below 10 days standby isn't acceptable for a phone to me. |
| 20:02.55 | buz_ | get a motofone then |
| 20:03.01 | Lars_G | the motorola E680i is tempting too |
| 20:03.02 | buz_ | i dont think theres a smartphone like that |
| 20:03.10 | Lars_G | Elrond: :O |
| 20:03.16 | buz_ | motorola? wont touch that stuff with 10 foot pole |
| 20:03.18 | Lars_G | Elrond: Do you work in the field or something? |
| 20:03.22 | Lars_G | buz_: why |
| 20:03.27 | buz_ | ghastly software |
| 20:03.35 | buz_ | shaky hardware |
| 20:03.36 | Lars_G | as in interface? |
| 20:03.40 | buz_ | as in everything |
| 20:03.47 | buz_ | very very bad ui |
| 20:03.50 | buz_ | lousy features |
| 20:03.54 | buz_ | weird behavior |
| 20:03.59 | Lars_G | I disagree there, I've found them to have a great hardware make |
| 20:04.05 | buz_ | thats based on razr and v360 |
| 20:04.08 | Lars_G | yes I agree with the UI problems.... |
| 20:04.17 | Lars_G | but if the Ui itself is OSS..... |
| 20:04.18 | buz_ | oh and the razr is unbearably slow |
| 20:04.34 | buz_ | the UI on the EZX phones isnt OSS for all i know |
| 20:05.26 | Elrond | Lars_G - I've really better things to do in my live then feeding my phone. ;) |
| 20:05.32 | stefan_schmidt | buz_: Right, it isn't that what we will use OpenMoko for. :) |
| 20:05.39 | Elrond | Hmm, so any estimates on standby for the neo? |
| 20:06.09 | buz_ | i thought openezx still didnt really work |
| 20:06.09 | buz_ | you can use openmoko gui on a phone that has no hardware support |
| 20:07.19 | stefan_schmidt | buz_: selfcompiled 2.4 is running fine. 2.6 will make big steps further in the next weeks. |
| 20:07.45 | buz_ | oh |
| 20:07.54 | buz_ | but still, no moto phone with wifi |
| 20:08.07 | buz_ | (the ming at least has a cam though) |
| 20:08.19 | buz_ | what does the ming cost, anyway |
| 20:08.50 | stefan_schmidt | ca. 370$ |
| 20:08.56 | stefan_schmidt | No wifi, right |
| 20:09.27 | buz_ | so it's qvga and cam vs no cam but vga and gps |
| 20:10.34 | *** join/#openmoko wiml (n=wiml@porygon.omnigroup.com) |
| 20:10.41 | stefan_schmidt | a780 has cam, qvga and gps |
| 20:11.23 | buz_ | but it's oooold |
| 20:11.29 | stefan_schmidt | Anyway, it will still take some time until the EZX phones are useful with free software |
| 20:11.49 | stefan_schmidt | old, but faster cpu then neo1973. :) |
| 20:12.04 | buz_ | the keypad could be handy |
| 20:12.13 | buz_ | and it does edge |
| 20:12.59 | buz_ | lol the a780 is 699 chf in switzerland |
| 20:13.12 | buz_ | ~change 700 chf to usd |
| 20:13.35 | stefan_schmidt | ~change 700 chf to EUR |
| 20:14.17 | Lars_G | gah |
| 20:14.22 | buz_ | at that price, i rather get a neo |
| 20:14.26 | stefan_schmidt | wow, that high. Last time I have it seen for 350Eur. But there are two versions one with gps and one without |
| 20:14.32 | Lars_G | ~change 700 chf to vbe |
| 20:14.37 | Lars_G | ~change 700 chf to vbs |
| 20:14.48 | Lars_G | what? xwn??? |
| 20:14.51 | Lars_G | oh yes |
| 20:14.54 | stefan_schmidt | of course, neo is preferred |
| 20:14.54 | Lars_G | ~change 700 chf to veb |
| 20:15.00 | Lars_G | that's our currency, sorry |
| 20:15.06 | Lars_G | holy f.... |
| 20:15.26 | Lars_G | is the Neo still expected to come out at $350? |
| 20:15.40 | stefan_schmidt | yes |
| 20:15.45 | Lars_G | you know I'll really really miss wifi and cam on the neo |
| 20:15.52 | buz_ | stefan_schmidt: the things can be had for about 300USD on ebay |
| 20:15.53 | Lars_G | specially cam, since wifi can be a real battery leech |
| 20:16.22 | buz_ | if i can turn off wifi, thats no issue |
| 20:16.40 | Lars_G | like the v-click |
| 20:16.45 | Lars_G | which seems to be a rebranded gw1 |
| 20:16.58 | buz_ | the GW1 is reportedly barely useable |
| 20:17.06 | buz_ | (which fits considering that the greenphone is not) |
| 20:17.22 | stefan_schmidt | buz_: btw, the case of neo has a hole. |
| 20:17.27 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 20:17.29 | buz_ | i knew it |
| 20:17.30 | buz_ | WHY? |
| 20:17.32 | *** join/#openmoko c10h12n2 (i=no@curly.dreamhost.com) |
| 20:17.48 | buz_ | or more importantly, is there anything below the hole |
| 20:17.49 | so_solid_moo | so you can hang it on coat hooks |
| 20:17.51 | Lars_G | buz_: with "greenphone is not" you mean it's not usseable? |
| 20:17.54 | buz_ | or can we get rid of it |
| 20:17.59 | buz_ | Lars_G: most definitely not |
| 20:18.02 | buz_ | even trolltech says so |
| 20:18.14 | stefan_schmidt | lanyard, marketing stuff |
| 20:18.42 | buz_ | ok if the case is empty below the hole, i'm SOOO gonna get rid of the case |
| 20:18.54 | buz_ | that's just stupid |
| 20:19.09 | buz_ | the phone would be much smaller without |
| 20:19.25 | Lars_G | I still wonder what will happen with ALP |
| 20:19.43 | Lars_G | Well the good thing is the phone is OSS |
| 20:19.54 | buz_ | or is there antenna below the thole? |
| 20:19.55 | Lars_G | if i really really really need a cam, or wifi, i can solder one in |
| 20:20.03 | Lars_G | and spend months making it work |
| 20:20.05 | buz_ | that i very much doubt |
| 20:20.12 | Lars_G | why do you doubt it? |
| 20:20.22 | buz_ | because so far we dont know if any GPIO is available |
| 20:20.23 | Lars_G | I doubt they'll use %100 of the gpios on the main proc. |
| 20:20.40 | buz_ | yeah but if they are somewhere inside the PCB it's gonna be very painful to get to them |
| 20:21.01 | buz_ | if that is empty, can we get another case that is actually as big as the phone? |
| 20:21.14 | Lars_G | Only would be impossible if they're not wired to nought and nowhere and the cpu's BGA |
| 20:21.19 | Lars_G | otherwise it's all possible. |
| 20:21.21 | Lars_G | it won't be pretty |
| 20:21.24 | Lars_G | but it's doable |
| 20:21.31 | wiml | epoxy and duct tape |
| 20:21.37 | Lars_G | kind of. yes |
| 20:21.38 | stefan_schmidt | Lars_G: I heard about an debug port with usb |
| 20:21.42 | Lars_G | and crazy glue |
| 20:21.56 | Lars_G | stefan_schmidt: That would solve wifi if the cpu supports host mode |
| 20:22.08 | buz_ | or a bigger case were we can hide usb wifi |
| 20:22.26 | buz_ | the cpu has one host mode port |
| 20:22.32 | buz_ | but thats probably the one that goes to the outside |
| 20:22.57 | buz_ | and theres some reports about BT on another usb |
| 20:23.06 | stefan_schmidt | And not everybody like to solder cable for data and vcc |
| 20:23.29 | Lars_G | if it goes outside, it has traces |
| 20:23.31 | buz_ | i find the oval design somewhat weird anyhow |
| 20:23.41 | Lars_G | if it has traces on the pcb, I can hook stuff to them |
| 20:23.54 | Lars_G | I mean, I've friggin soldered stuff over PLASTIC traces once. |
| 20:24.03 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 20:24.04 | buz_ | with the chance of killing the only way to recharge the phone yes |
| 20:24.10 | Lars_G | to fix a broken trace in the digitizer film for a Palm III |
| 20:24.27 | stefan_schmidt | Of course you can do all that, but most people don't do it. |
| 20:24.36 | Lars_G | Oh I don't expect them to do it. |
| 20:24.42 | Lars_G | You see I'm selfish this way. |
| 20:24.48 | stefan_schmidt | It's ok |
| 20:24.54 | Lars_G | I don't expect everybody from benefiting from my experiments. |
| 20:24.59 | stefan_schmidt | Your risk, your fun. :) |
| 20:25.23 | Lars_G | I just want the original maker not try to fuck me severely for toying with the device I BOUGHT, and if someone else takes the same risk as me, and enjoys the results, then all the cooler |
| 20:25.31 | buz_ | a somewhat larger shell that could hide an usb stick could be useful |
| 20:25.55 | buz_ | instead of a frigging hole |
| 20:26.04 | Lars_G | no need to hide a full stick, in many wifi sticks there's a considerable (though not HUGE) part of empty casing |
| 20:26.19 | buz_ | essentially thats what i mean yes |
| 20:26.22 | Lars_G | Also if i'm going to solder the thing point to point, the usb connector itself is going out of there |
| 20:26.43 | buz_ | i wonder if there are mini usb wifi sticks |
| 20:26.46 | stefan_schmidt | There was some space inside the case, but I'm not sure if an dismantled usb wlan would fit. And of course I'm not sure if it was the final case. |
| 20:26.48 | Lars_G | There are. |
| 20:26.54 | buz_ | where? |
| 20:26.59 | Lars_G | let me search |
| 20:27.28 | Lars_G | stefan_schmidt: and saddly one thing I do NOT have yet, is a vacum molder to make my own modded case |
| 20:27.38 | buz_ | there might be the issue of getting 5V DC though |
| 20:27.40 | Lars_G | I want to make one, but I keep postponing it. |
| 20:27.54 | buz_ | mhh theres company that do custom modling |
| 20:28.01 | buz_ | not cheap but not outrageously expensive either |
| 20:28.18 | Lars_G | buz_: if the external connector is Host mode, it MUST produce the 5Vdc, though it's only forced to do so at a low amperage |
| 20:28.31 | buz_ | it's unpowered |
| 20:28.40 | jjazz | wifi eats batteries |
| 20:28.49 | Lars_G | jjazz: yup, and big time. |
| 20:28.50 | buz_ | GPRS eats money |
| 20:28.55 | Lars_G | buz_: bigger time |
| 20:29.00 | buz_ | exactly |
| 20:29.01 | Lars_G | buz_: in here it's friggin expensive |
| 20:29.26 | buz_ | here too |
| 20:29.26 | jjazz | Is the phone gprs only? |
| 20:29.32 | stefan_schmidt | I had a talk with mickeyl about cases. One with brushed metal would be sweet, but we were not sure about problems with RF stuff |
| 20:29.34 | jjazz | It's GSM too, right? |
| 20:29.39 | Lars_G | If i only talk, and I talk normally, I can get along with $7 a month. |
| 20:29.41 | buz_ | gsm yes |
| 20:29.57 | Lars_G | for gprs, I pay $8 for 10Mb a month, and that's because it's cheaper than not pay it |
| 20:29.57 | jjazz | Regardless, I don't pay for cell service |
| 20:30.07 | buz_ | oh i would want the brushed metal |
| 20:30.11 | buz_ | if rf can be made to work |
| 20:30.16 | *** join/#openmoko tictacaddict (n=josh@202.110.dhcp.hope.edu) |
| 20:30.17 | Lars_G | it'd be a nightmare I think |
| 20:30.20 | buz_ | (nokia can do it) |
| 20:30.22 | Lars_G | to make the rf work |
| 20:30.26 | Lars_G | dude, nokia is nokia |
| 20:30.35 | buz_ | sure |
| 20:30.38 | sannes | shouldn't someone put up a competition on guessing the release timestamp? .. heh |
| 20:30.41 | Lars_G | whathever you think of them, they've been doing stuff with waves for ages now. they know what they do |
| 20:30.53 | buz_ | i think they make good phones actually |
| 20:31.05 | wiml | unlike apple :-) the mac laptops with metal cases have terrible wifi range |
| 20:31.13 | buz_ | and they certainly have the best gui (think of the toolkit however you may) |
| 20:31.14 | Lars_G | Meh I like their construction, but I find their UI is geared thowards teenagers which aggravates me. |
| 20:31.27 | Stephmw | stefan_schmidt: for ideas about RF interaction and metal cases, look at the Vertu range from Nokia |
| 20:31.30 | buz_ | S60 S3 looks sharp to me |
| 20:31.37 | buz_ | also nokia 8850 |
| 20:31.56 | Lars_G | Personally I'm more of a Siemens GUI myself, more suited to my mindset, but I can't grab a siemens phone in my hand without it breaking to pieces |
| 20:32.08 | buz_ | siemens gui? does it get any worse than that? |
| 20:32.18 | buz_ | (no wonder they're bankrupt) |
| 20:32.29 | Lars_G | So I went with the second best. SonyEricsson, which is like buying products from a genius nazi fascist |
| 20:32.35 | buz_ | yes |
| 20:32.39 | buz_ | and i wont do it again |
| 20:32.50 | Lars_G | I love the phones. Hate their policies and methods |
| 20:33.29 | Lars_G | awwwwwwww |
| 20:33.39 | Lars_G | "From analysis by Groklaw it seems that SCO may owe Novell nearly all the SCOSource licensing fees, and has been hiding the fact for 3 years. Imminent. Inevitable. Bankruptcy." Poor, poor missunderstood people |
| 20:33.44 | Lars_G | I hope they ROT IN HELL |
| 20:33.54 | buz_ | ROOOOOOFL |
| 20:33.57 | wiml | poor SCO! so misunderstood |
| 20:34.28 | buz_ | they sure had it coming |
| 20:34.46 | sannes | they just wanted some money, .. poor company .. :P |
| 20:35.05 | Lars_G | buz_: and saw it, it was all a ruse to fatten the shares and bail. |
| 20:35.13 | *** join/#openmoko necrodome (n=chatzill@212.156.160.231) |
| 20:35.19 | Lars_G | and they didn't care if the company burned to ashes after they bailed |
| 20:35.22 | buz_ | of course it was |
| 20:35.40 | buz_ | its not like sco actually had anything they could sell |
| 20:36.44 | *** join/#openmoko timtimred (n=On3@62-31-181-7.cable.ubr02.chel.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:37.47 | Lars_G | Well again. the v-click is a dual mode, based off the GW1 |
| 20:38.36 | buz_ | the GW1 is not an open source phone |
| 20:38.42 | cbpage | i'm not quite sure yet - the neo's cheaper and unlocked, but not as powerful hw-wise |
| 20:39.43 | stefan_schmidt | iPhone is another scope. Designer and Apple fans, no OSS geeks. |
| 20:39.44 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:39.59 | mjr | yeah, the markets aren't fully overlapping |
| 20:40.22 | buz_ | noooow, openmoko on the iphone.... |
| 20:40.28 | mjr | plus neo should have a significant time to market advantage |
| 20:40.49 | buz_ | i dont think so |
| 20:40.59 | buz_ | thats just holding the door open for apple lawyers |
| 20:41.00 | timtimred | [g2] you can make one ;) |
| 20:41.22 | Stephmw | yeah, Apple has aggressively defended its whole LookAndFeel |
| 20:41.37 | timtimred | do they though? kde has os x themes |
| 20:41.41 | timtimred | and gnome |
| 20:41.41 | mjr | yah, one of the consequences of apple going the same way physical interface-wise is that somebody will surely copy their UI on FIC |
| 20:41.56 | mjr | um, on Neo |
| 20:41.58 | buz_ | which isnt half bad |
| 20:42.05 | *** join/#openmoko jthomas (n=jthomas@hotel.sierrabravo.net) |
| 20:42.11 | buz_ | if that person lives outside the us, chances is he'll live |
| 20:42.19 | Stephmw | timtimred: small time, in comparison. There was one done for Windows too. Lawyers landed when it went on sale. |
| 20:42.19 | [g2] | lol |
| 20:42.43 | timtimred | ah selling. im thinking about free ones. |
| 20:42.47 | buz_ | so sell it from allofapplegui.ru |
| 20:43.14 | Stephmw | buz_: naw, .ru is gonna be invaded by the US under RIAA guidance because of allofmp3.com |
| 20:43.14 | mjr | 'course, it'd probably be not a very good idea for FIC to ship a particularly Appleized GUI :] |
| 20:43.22 | mjr | but it'll happen |
| 20:43.33 | buz_ | as long as fic doesnt do it themselves |
| 20:43.35 | buz_ | no problem for them |
| 20:44.17 | mjr | yeah |
| 20:44.25 | jthomas | anyone here work with FIC's hardware people? I think it would be great to have manufactured a USB wifi dongle that runs on a AA battery as an accessory for the Neo 1973, give us all some wifi-g on these phones... |
| 20:45.01 | xorAxAx | timtimred: where is an os x like gnome theme? |
| 20:45.08 | buz_ | jthomas: i agree |
| 20:45.10 | mjr | (not that it should be Apple's business to harass lookalikes, but well, they do seem to like it nevertheless) |
| 20:45.19 | buz_ | it'd be a niche product but much appreciated |
| 20:45.32 | buz_ | mjr: apple==microsoft with sense of style |
| 20:45.36 | Lars_G | timtimred: the difference is apple has enphatized how many pattents they applied for the iphone |
| 20:46.20 | jthomas | buz_, it'll only be as niche as these phones are; anyone who wants a phone will want the wifi... |
| 20:46.20 | timtimred | xorAxAx: in google! |
| 20:46.21 | mjr | buz_, yes, I'm aware |
| 20:46.23 | [g2] | anybody hear what the screen resolution is on the iphone ? |
| 20:46.31 | timtimred | gmome-look or something |
| 20:46.33 | timtimred | oops |
| 20:46.42 | timtimred | they look crap though |
| 20:46.47 | buz_ | apple can stick their patents where the sun doesnt shine |
| 20:46.59 | timtimred | buz_ hates apple lol ;) |
| 20:46.59 | xorAxAx | timtimred: art.gnome.org is not very good |
| 20:47.00 | buz_ | the very fact that you can patent looks of things is wrong |
| 20:47.05 | jthomas | xfce has an OSX look too, check out Dream Linux. So does KDE but I forget its name... |
| 20:47.07 | xorAxAx | timtimred: so i didnt find those first |
| 20:47.25 | buz_ | timtimred: sort of, that 500USD ipod had its battery die on me in 8 months |
| 20:47.37 | buz_ | (i still keep recommending macbooks to family) |
| 20:47.43 | jthomas | whats the 1973 battery deal? user-replacable? |
| 20:47.49 | timtimred | doh. still easily replaced these days though. |
| 20:47.52 | buz_ | and i got a shuffle for xmas which i like (the soundchip is bad though) |
| 20:48.04 | buz_ | that was in the days of the 3G ipod |
| 20:48.14 | buz_ | batteries were few and far between |
| 20:48.30 | timtimred | i had a 2g one. i still have it :) |
| 20:48.32 | buz_ | the ipod actually still works |
| 20:48.40 | timtimred | battery replaced obviously |
| 20:48.44 | buz_ | (which is very surprising considering how bad it looks) |
| 20:49.00 | timtimred | mine is scratched to hell |
| 20:49.13 | buz_ | yeah mine crashed in all kinds of places |
| 20:49.29 | buz_ | the hd is quite definitely much more resilient than the battery |
| 20:52.34 | buz_ | mhhh how small could a battery powered usb stick realisticall bee |
| 20:53.51 | buz_ | obviously one could skip the usb connector and go mini usb |
| 20:54.27 | buz_ | anybody knows where the usb port is located? |
| 20:55.52 | buz_ | when i come to think of it, if the phone is charged through usb, there is some connection to the battery from usb right? |
| 20:56.06 | buz_ | now thats likely 3.6V? |
| 20:56.31 | timtimred | you could hack a battery onto a linux supported usb wifi device |
| 20:56.34 | timtimred | easily |
| 20:56.36 | timtimred | :) |
| 20:56.41 | *** join/#openmoko WillySilly2 (n=will@c-24-23-145-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:56.42 | buz_ | sure you could |
| 20:56.57 | buz_ | but its bigger than if you could somehow hack a 3.6V usb thingy |
| 20:57.22 | buz_ | and convince the phone to send 3.6V directly to the usb port |
| 20:58.36 | [g2] | the screen res on the iphone is only 320x480 |
| 20:58.48 | buz_ | mhh |
| 20:58.56 | buz_ | thats not wide? |
| 20:59.13 | [g2] | "openmoko: twice the pixels half the price" |
| 21:00.49 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 21:01.19 | [g2] | the accelerometers are a good ide |
| 21:01.20 | [g2] | idea |
| 21:01.33 | buz_ | to make light sabre noises yes |
| 21:01.37 | [g2] | however, I think there should be a lock switch |
| 21:02.34 | buz_ | in hardware yes |
| 21:03.27 | [g2] | and when you unlock the switch while the phone is ringing it should automatically answer |
| 21:03.41 | buz_ | oh no please no |
| 21:03.48 | buz_ | i want to keep the busy signal |
| 21:04.04 | buz_ | and if i could chose, i also want the "reduce rf output until the call drops" feature |
| 21:04.33 | Stephmw | hahaha |
| 21:04.44 | buz_ | that would indeed be a killer feature |
| 21:04.48 | Stephmw | why not just introduce white noise into the voice stream and kill the connection? |
| 21:04.49 | WillySilly2 | a feature everyone would enjoy |
| 21:05.12 | buz_ | mhh that would be the poor mans way of doing it |
| 21:06.12 | buz_ | http://www.oberkommando.org/asus_wl-167g/antenna_hack/pics/DSC00132.html widely available and with good linux support |
| 21:06.28 | *** join/#openmoko vlo (n=valentin@adsl-84-227-225-117.adslplus.ch) |
| 21:09.02 | stefan_schmidt | buz_: Without the usb plug it's not that big, but I doubt it will fit into the case. |
| 21:09.27 | buz_ | without power it's not really useful inside the case anyway |
| 21:09.51 | jthomas | " you could hack a battery onto a linux supported usb wifi device" PLEASE DO and sell me one |
| 21:09.59 | buz_ | yes |
| 21:10.11 | buz_ | if it's in somewhat reasonable size, i will buy one |
| 21:11.11 | buz_ | so do i |
| 21:11.29 | buz_ | now i just need a chinese odm to make them ;) |
| 21:12.11 | jthomas | so do we all, lets ask FIC to make them please!! |
| 21:12.29 | buz_ | and bundle them with the neo |
| 21:12.32 | stefan_schmidt | jthomas: I doubt the will do. |
| 21:12.35 | jthomas | BUT rather than make the interface an OSX clone, why not make it just good? |
| 21:13.07 | *** join/#openmoko necrodome (n=chatzill@212.156.160.231) |
| 21:13.57 | buz_ | if fic wont do it, we can still ask asus to fit the wl-167g with battery (has a ralink chip inside) |
| 21:14.21 | buz_ | (and fic definitely wouldnt like THAT) |
| 21:14.27 | *** join/#openmoko _MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-176-184.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 21:14.45 | wiml | i am an apple fanboy, but i agree with jthomas. there's no reason the osx interface is particularly well suited for phones. just make a killer phone gui. |
| 21:15.53 | jthomas | "and fic definitely wouldnt like THAT" why not? either they do it, or someone else does |
| 21:16.26 | jthomas | "make a killer phone gui" with eye candy to make osx fans drool |
| 21:16.42 | buz_ | because asus is on all fronts a competitor of fic |
| 21:16.50 | jthomas | aah thanks ;) |
| 21:17.21 | buz_ | and considering asus has done some marvelous linux wifi stuff, they just might jump on the bandwagon |
| 21:17.29 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 21:17.30 | stefan_schmidt | wiml: Yes, accelerometers could be cool. /me thinks about the wii remote control. :) |
| 21:17.52 | *** join/#openmoko lkcl (n=lkcl@5ac5cf85.bb.sky.com) |
| 21:17.59 | wiml | come to think of it, the wii gui is awfully OSX/Aqua-like. |
| 21:18.05 | Lars_G | hmmm you've seen the iPhone's UI shots? it looks both very cute and usseable |
| 21:18.15 | cjb | wiml: yes, the Wii itself looks like an Applw product too. |
| 21:19.28 | stefan_schmidt | I'm not talking about the guy, but only the remote instead. Nice hardware. |
| 21:20.36 | *** join/#openmoko benJIman (n=bw@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk) |
| 21:28.03 | jthomas | anyone have their hands on the Neo 1973 yet? how is that hardware? |
| 21:28.22 | stefan_schmidt | jthomas: only the devs |
| 21:29.07 | buz_ | and they likely arent allowed to tell |
| 21:31.30 | *** join/#openmoko Iome (i=mika@sk1-8-2.tky.hut.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
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| 21:31.31 | *** join/#openmoko jthomas (n=jthomas@hotel.sierrabravo.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 21:31.31 | *** join/#openmoko timtimred (n=On3@62-31-181-7.cable.ubr02.chel.blueyonder.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
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| 21:31.35 | spikebik1 | lars_g seen the GUI animations? |
| 21:31.35 | spikebik1 | the GUI does look pretty impressive |
| 21:31.36 | *** join/#openmoko yacc (n=andreas@h1634.serverkompetenz.net) |
| 21:31.36 | spikebik1 | hard to imagine the battery life being reasonable |
| 21:31.36 | *** join/#openmoko jtokash2 (n=jtokash@corporate.homestead-inc.com) |
| 21:31.36 | jthomas | GUI on iPhone, or Neo? |
| 21:31.47 | spikebik1 | iphone |
| 21:32.03 | spikebik1 | although the NEO looks surprising close |
| 21:32.06 | spikebik1 | slightly smaller screen |
| 21:32.10 | spikebik1 | and thicker |
| 21:32.30 | jthomas | yeah thicker for sure, on the prelim specs |
| 21:32.47 | jthomas | but better resolution i read (here on irc) |
| 21:33.09 | necrodome | and without wifi and bt |
| 21:33.39 | jthomas | bt? |
| 21:33.55 | *** join/#openmoko xkr47 (n=xkr47@2001:14b8:141:5926:5358:9793:2384:6264) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 21:33.55 | *** join/#openmoko sannes (i=ace@har.sagt.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 21:33.57 | jthomas | without wifi :( without camera :| with linux :) |
| 21:33.57 | necrodome | bluetooth |
| 21:34.00 | jthomas | ah |
| 21:34.12 | cbpage | any word on bt in the neo? |
| 21:34.53 | Elrond | cbpage - The press/index mentions bt. |
| 21:35.14 | *** join/#openmoko longshot (n=gl@CPE-61-9-147-123.static.vic.bigpond.net.au) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 21:35.37 | jthomas | http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html no it doesn't mention bt |
| 21:35.38 | cjb | Elrond: not that I can see. |
| 21:35.55 | cbpage | it was still being discussed last time i heard |
| 21:36.04 | cbpage | they know darn well people want it though ;) |
| 21:36.15 | jthomas | it might be nice but i would like wifi more |
| 21:36.36 | timtimred | both! |
| 21:36.36 | spikebik1 | wow |
| 21:36.37 | cbpage | there are some things you can't do with wifi that you can with bt though |
| 21:36.42 | spikebik1 | apple is 1/2 the pixels of the openmoko |
| 21:36.43 | cbpage | headsets, keyboards... |
| 21:36.48 | spikebik1 | GPS |
| 21:36.51 | jthomas | and vice versa; i just find wifi more useful for me |
| 21:37.15 | jthomas | google, email, ssh all from most anywhere |
| 21:37.21 | benJIman | spikebik1: where are the gui animations? |
| 21:37.23 | cbpage | for computer<->neo comms bluetooth can be set to PAN mode, which is like ehternet... then you can do away with dialing |
| 21:37.30 | cbpage | *from the computer... |
| 21:37.43 | spikebik1 | http://www.apple.com/iphone/ |
| 21:37.57 | cbpage | for what they're charging it should have *at least* vga |
| 21:37.58 | benJIman | spikebik1: oh, didn't realise you were talking about the iphone |
| 21:38.30 | spikebik1 | the iphone GUI is impressive, especially for 1/2 the pixels |
| 21:38.35 | Elrond | cjb - Huh, you're right. |
| 21:38.43 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=a@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 21:38.52 | holycow | oh wow look at all the people |
| 21:38.53 | holycow | hello |
| 21:38.56 | necrodome | 500$ for 4gb, 600$ for 8gb |
| 21:39.03 | necrodome | with verizon contract |
| 21:39.09 | holycow | if anyone from the company is here, i got cash to burn and waiting to buy this thing :) |
| 21:39.09 | spikebik1 | er cingular |
| 21:39.09 | necrodome | rumours say |
| 21:39.19 | spikebik1 | not rumors |
| 21:39.35 | spikebik1 | iphone is quad band |
| 21:39.44 | holycow | what is iphone? |
| 21:39.44 | jthomas | holycow, we're all hoping to get one soon :) |
| 21:39.53 | jthomas | iphone is apple's new toy |
| 21:40.09 | spikebik1 | think openmoko, but 1/2 the pixels, and months later |
| 21:40.15 | holycow | uh, iphone isn't that a something actually owned by another company? |
| 21:40.24 | timtimred | cisco wasnt it? |
| 21:40.25 | spikebik1 | I guess they bought the rights |
| 21:40.27 | cbpage | cisco has an iphone |
| 21:40.28 | timtimred | launched last week? |
| 21:40.30 | spikebik1 | yeah cisco/linksys |
| 21:40.36 | holycow | cisco, oh right |
| 21:40.39 | cbpage | if you look at the logo they may have gotten around that by trademarking [apple]iPhone |
| 21:41.14 | cbpage | if it becomes a real problem they might do what they did with iTV->[apple]TV |
| 21:41.16 | holycow | i love the whole bit about linux and open source on the moko |
| 21:41.35 | holycow | i'm so tired with dealing with all the motorola garbage or whatnot, i'm willing to gamble at this point ;) |
| 21:41.47 | cbpage | i'm fine with the moko being a relative niche product for a while - let's have fun with it... production's pretty much assured by the chinese winmobile version |
| 21:41.53 | cbpage | ;) |
| 21:42.23 | holycow | so in china they are doing a winmobile but here they are doing the open source thing? |
| 21:42.29 | holycow | weird, isn't it usually the other way around? |
| 21:42.30 | cbpage | yeah - very similar/same hw |
| 21:42.50 | cbpage | i could see them moving over eventually though |
| 21:42.52 | jthomas | yeah usually we get screwed with the windows |
| 21:42.52 | Elrond | hehe, fun. |
| 21:42.54 | holycow | oh neat, |
| 21:43.13 | cbpage | i also think t-mobile us *could* want it eventually, since they'll need something better than winmobile to compete with iPhone |
| 21:43.28 | cbpage | (unless microsoft can *massively* improve winmobile in <=1yr) |
| 21:43.39 | jthomas | yeah plus Neo1973 can use the current TMobile SIMS chip |
| 21:43.43 | holycow | i run all linux, i just hope it will allow a nice bridge to integrate with my desktop |
| 21:43.54 | buz_ | tmobile will want cam |
| 21:43.56 | buz_ | likely wifi as well |
| 21:43.58 | holycow | even unlocked phones now cannot really run apps without buying a dev kit and such |
| 21:44.00 | cbpage | yeah |
| 21:44.10 | cbpage | they won't take this version... :P |
| 21:44.16 | cbpage | also they might be in too close with HTC |
| 21:44.19 | holycow | qt greenphone looks cool, i just don't know if one can plug it into the cel network and go |
| 21:44.25 | cbpage | hc - you could |
| 21:44.31 | holycow | really? |
| 21:44.32 | buz_ | rumor is fic and htc are somehow entangled anyway |
| 21:44.34 | holycow | ah! |
| 21:44.49 | buz_ | (if thats really the case, then when do we get a vga Tytn with openmoko) |
| 21:45.15 | jthomas | well the qt costs like $800 |
| 21:45.15 | cbpage | fic and htc might both be largely owned by formosa plastics |
| 21:45.17 | cbpage | so is via |
| 21:45.17 | buz_ | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8591201260.html |
| 21:45.48 | jthomas | qt is meant for devs who wanna make the apps; the software will later run on a cheaper phone (is the hope) |
| 21:46.17 | buz_ | if formosa has controlling stake in htc, can they please force htc to release docs on their phones??? |
| 21:46.41 | buz_ | (not sure how exactly it would hurt htc if i buy a phone from then to run linux on anyway) |
| 21:47.18 | buz_ | mhh dlink is insane right? 6'' |
| 21:47.23 | buz_ | 600$ for the v-click? |
| 21:48.06 | cbpage | dlink can't write firmware, i know that much |
| 21:48.20 | *** part/#openmoko Lars_G (n=lars@unaffiliated/lars-g/x-000001) |
| 21:48.28 | holycow | cbpage, hehe |
| 21:48.46 | buz_ | dlink ddoses ntp servers |
| 21:49.23 | cjb | used to. |
| 21:50.45 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 21:51.31 | *** join/#openmoko lardman (n=simon@89.241.96.127) |
| 21:55.04 | [g2] | !convert 4000 yuan to usd |
| 21:55.18 | [g2] | ~convert 4000 yuan to usd |
| 21:55.37 | [g2] | where's the bot when you need it ? |
| 21:55.45 | jthomas | lol |
| 21:55.52 | jjazz | All the bots are out dancing. |
| 21:56.07 | xorAxAx | [g2]: you need the correct acronym |
| 21:56.11 | jjazz | They dance very well, but only know one move. (I'll let you guess which one) |
| 21:56.17 | jthomas | $512 = 4000 yuan |
| 21:56.27 | jthomas | (thanks google search) |
| 21:56.27 | xorAxAx | ~convert 4000 cny to usd |
| 21:56.35 | xorAxAx | broken |
| 21:56.42 | xorAxAx | ~load module communism |
| 21:56.49 | [g2] | heh LOL |
| 21:58.26 | [g2] | jthomas thx |
| 21:58.33 | jthomas | np |
| 21:58.35 | stefan_schmidt | ~change 4000yuan to usd |
| 21:58.43 | stefan_schmidt | ~change 4000 yuan to usd |
| 21:58.51 | jthomas | "but only know one move" the Lindy Hop? |
| 21:59.06 | [g2] | stefan_schmidt nice :) |
| 21:59.09 | stefan_schmidt | ~botcookie |
| 21:59.12 | apt | :-P |
| 21:59.38 | xorAxAx | ~install kim il jung |
| 21:59.52 | xorAxAx | ~install kim-il jong |
| 22:00.07 | *** join/#openmoko Revmeupbaby (n=Tig@82.153.215.237) |
| 22:01.30 | [g2] | jthomas you don't read chinese do you ? |
| 22:01.56 | jthomas | nope sorry |
| 22:02.09 | jthomas | what do you have? |
| 22:02.10 | xorAxAx | [g2]: google does |
| 22:02.20 | jthomas | lol |
| 22:02.32 | jthomas | yeah i saw that! |
| 22:02.35 | jthomas | no idea, sorry |
| 22:03.23 | jthomas | probably so, what else could it be? |
| 22:03.33 | *** join/#openmoko gert (n=gert@ip503d4a95.speed.planet.nl) |
| 22:03.33 | Revmeupbaby | well I can't think what else would have a 17 in it |
| 22:03.43 | Revmeupbaby | unless it is a CRT by standard |
| 22:04.30 | Revmeupbaby | and the TFT is "for illustration purposes only" :) |
| 22:04.37 | [g2] | well $512 for that system with a 17" monitor is a good price |
| 22:04.44 | [g2] | s/monitor/lcd/ |
| 22:04.59 | jthomas | yeah |
| 22:05.06 | jthomas | they don't have to ship them from the US ;) |
| 22:05.37 | Revmeupbaby | sorry, did not do the currency conversion :/ |
| 22:06.06 | cbpage | it's a good way to dump single core a64's ;) |
| 22:06.24 | jthomas | so if 4000Y = $512, does that mean it has 4000MB of RAM? ;) |
| 22:06.44 | jthomas | (i kid) |
| 22:06.56 | Revmeupbaby | yes but you can't address it unless you run RedFlag64 ;) |
| 22:07.05 | jthomas | daamn |
| 22:07.21 | Revmeupbaby | well all of it anyway :) before the pedants jump in :) |
| 22:08.51 | gamin | the iphone seems not to hae gps, does it? |
| 22:09.03 | cjb | that's somewhat surprising. |
| 22:09.03 | gamin | have even |
| 22:09.19 | gamin | but it know how close the user is to the phone *g* |
| 22:09.26 | cjb | given the google maps integration. |
| 22:09.28 | gamin | knows |
| 22:09.45 | gamin | google maps come by safari |
| 22:10.36 | gamin | I wonder whether it auto portrait-/landscape switch is nice or annoying |
| 22:12.55 | Revmeupbaby | I have been going through the mailing list archives today and there is a particular question about the AGPS that I was wondering if anyone knew for certain, do networks charge for AGPS ( can they? as in is it possible in the technology) if you don't pay for the network fees for it I assume it can fallback ( I know that this should be software controllable and therefore fixable) but I was wondering if anyone has any experience of AGPS as I have never |
| 22:12.55 | Revmeupbaby | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:12.56 | jthomas | portrait/landscape on a camera is very nice |
| 22:13.52 | timtimred | shame appletv doesnt do location free like playback to the iphone. |
| 22:15.36 | cbpage | rev - i'm pretty sure that it's not network-dependent at least for basic fixes |
| 22:16.35 | Revmeupbaby | cbpage, that is what I assumed, I was just wondering if anyone had used it before because I haven't :) |
| 22:17.23 | wiml | I get the impression that networks look on AGPS support as a revenue source, so it may be that the gpsd can't fall back easily |
| 22:17.49 | wiml | also if it relies on ephemeris data being supplied by the network it might not be able to fall back "out of the box" |
| 22:18.00 | wiml | all this is very vague, from the info on the mailing list |
| 22:18.01 | Revmeupbaby | hmm |
| 22:18.11 | gamin | the GL chips get fixes without anything. |
| 22:18.43 | Revmeupbaby | so if my network wanted to charge for it it is a quick move and a link to a shell script with a sed parser on it :) |
| 22:18.55 | gamin | AGPS is two things: 1. preloading the gps chip with almanac, ephemeris, time and coarse position. |
| 22:18.57 | wiml | gamin: you mean they fall back but are faster when they get ephemeris data from the nwtroek? |
| 22:19.19 | wiml | nwtroek = network |
| 22:19.28 | gamin | 2. getting this data somehow to the phone. one standard for that is defined in the OMA SUPL papers |
| 22:19.39 | gamin | wiml: yes |
| 22:19.52 | wiml | that is nice to know |
| 22:20.01 | gamin | wiml: they claim to get a fix in less than 1sec with the data preloaded |
| 22:22.09 | gamin | the website of GL is just one big pile of marketing BS, but their technical papers are pretty good. check here: http://www.globallocate.com/GlobalLocateIndoorGPS.pdf |
| 22:22.27 | *** join/#openmoko cegy (n=cegy@213.29.124.5) |
| 22:23.02 | *** join/#openmoko lardman (n=simon@89.241.209.78) |
| 22:28.00 | *** join/#openmoko Sum1 (n=Sum1@80.175.142.81) |
| 22:30.11 | *** join/#openmoko unique (n=unique@ip43071.stuwe.fh-schmalkalden.de) |
| 22:31.09 | *** join/#openmoko bjoernb_ (n=bjoernb@c130051.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 22:31.11 | bjoernb_ | hello |
| 22:32.09 | bjoernb_ | in ##apple all the people are so exited about the iphone... |
| 22:32.24 | jthomas | hell, everyone HERE seems excited... |
| 22:33.07 | Revmeupbaby | I started to think about alll the ideas on the mailing list that I have read and they are all very cool. |
| 22:33.22 | Revmeupbaby | Then I started to think about which ones I would like |
| 22:33.31 | Revmeupbaby | All of them was the reply |
| 22:33.41 | Revmeupbaby | so I decided to be more pragmatic |
| 22:33.43 | jthomas | :) |
| 22:34.42 | Revmeupbaby | for the the Gen 1 device it sounds like we are not getting wifi :( a shame but not a show stopper for gen1 |
| 22:34.56 | jthomas | i know :( |
| 22:35.09 | jjazz | [g2]: I don't read Chinese, but I can read a little Japanese. From what little I can make out, it says 17 inch monitor |
| 22:35.47 | Revmeupbaby | but then I started thinking as a global phone different markets will have differing costs |
| 22:37.16 | Revmeupbaby | so in one market a network connection via BT might be a PITA but you might be able to get an all that you can eat GPRS connection |
| 22:38.15 | Revmeupbaby | then in other markets GPRS might be like gold dust but WiFI is everywhere |
| 22:38.19 | cbpage | yeah and you could use bt to get that gprs to your computer easier than any other phone |
| 22:38.20 | cbpage | yup |
| 22:39.04 | jjazz | Revmeupbaby: Where is there a GPRS buffet? |
| 22:39.12 | jthomas | lol |
| 22:39.14 | Revmeupbaby | hehe |
| 22:39.39 | Revmeupbaby | Apparently in the UK if I spend £80 a month for all that I can eat |
| 22:39.40 | mjr | jjazz, here in Finland, at least |
| 22:39.52 | jjazz | not here in America, unfortunately. |
| 22:39.53 | mjr | starting at €10/month |
| 22:40.05 | jjazz | 10 euros a month is pretty cheap if you use it a lot |
| 22:40.42 | wiml | i have all you can eat gprs from t-mobile in seattle |
| 22:41.25 | wiml | they kept "forgetting" that they offered it but I eventually got it from them |
| 22:42.08 | jjazz | Interesting. |
| 22:42.12 | Revmeupbaby | because the Neo is a device that allows us to hook into the mobile networks to do lots of cools stuff it would be ace to address this with the apps and how they are classed, could you have a metatag for network usage? low medium and high with definitions or something ? |
| 22:43.19 | Revmeupbaby | I can almost see the need for outbound firewalling to stop my phone bankrupting me :) |
| 22:43.24 | spikebik1 | I'd rather have twice the pixels than wifi |
| 22:43.34 | jthomas | wifi over resolution |
| 22:43.50 | jthomas | and firewall please! ;) |
| 22:43.51 | spikebik1 | after all why do you need all the bits if you have a tiny screen |
| 22:44.04 | jthomas | terminal access |
| 22:44.20 | jjazz | spikebik1: stream mp3 to the phone? ;) |
| 22:44.28 | jthomas | i dunno i guess. can i have both? ;) |
| 22:44.30 | spikebik1 | why bother. |
| 22:44.39 | Revmeupbaby | I would hate to be FIC atm :) they will be getting the demands of geeks globally :) |
| 22:44.41 | spikebik1 | Just bluetooth sync your MP3's when near your home/work/laptop |
| 22:44.52 | jthomas | whats the point of a big screen with apps if they cannot connect to anything? |
| 22:45.01 | spikebik1 | the max for the I/O slot is 2GB? 4GB? |
| 22:45.05 | jthomas | email? nah. Web? nah. |
| 22:45.12 | benJIman | spikebik1: is bluetooth confirmed? |
| 22:45.15 | spikebik1 | I'd hardly call GPRS + bluetooth nothing |
| 22:45.19 | jthomas | calculator? weee. |
| 22:45.36 | benJIman | spikebik1: last I saw bluetooth looked unlikely |
| 22:45.47 | spikebik1 | doh, I hadn't heard that |
| 22:45.52 | jthomas | wifi is generally free, where as GPRS isn't |
| 22:45.59 | spikebik1 | flat rate GPRS around here is $20 ish |
| 22:46.00 | Tv | if I'm charging the phone by usb anyway |
| 22:46.05 | Tv | I will happily sync larger items that way |
| 22:46.07 | Tv | gprs for the rest |
| 22:46.18 | Tv | wifi would be good but *get the hardware out* |
| 22:46.31 | spikebik1 | I do google maps without using wifi or gprs |
| 22:46.56 | jthomas | hey if this is plugged into a computer's USB can it access the net? or do i have to setup internal routing tables to link USB to eth0 ? |
| 22:47.11 | spikebik1 | jt yes and yes |
| 22:47.15 | Revmeupbaby | I was wondering about the unpowered USB, now I am not an expert on this but I am damn sure I can make a sort of USB converter with battery powered injector with a few odds and ends and some AA batteries. it would not be pretty |
| 22:47.19 | spikebik1 | yes it works, yes it requires a config |
| 22:47.21 | jthomas | so net won't be simple :( |
| 22:47.25 | Tv | Revmeupbaby: that exists already |
| 22:47.35 | Tv | jthomas: computers aren't simple |
| 22:47.42 | jthomas | LOL no kidding |
| 22:47.48 | jthomas | yeep |
| 22:47.51 | Revmeupbaby | TV: the power for the USB? |
| 22:47.55 | Tv | Revmeupbaby: yes |
| 22:48.00 | jthomas | thats why i love the linux, not simple but its open |
| 22:48.01 | benJIman | jtokash2: I do that with zaurus (bridge connection to usb) |
| 22:48.13 | Revmeupbaby | \o/ I don't have to burn my fingers! |
| 22:48.29 | mjr | Revmeupbaby, usb power injector instructions are around the net; the nokia 770 has a similar usb connector so people have started hacking that |
| 22:48.30 | *** join/#openmoko necrodome (n=chatzill@212.156.160.231) |
| 22:48.43 | Revmeupbaby | Ah wonderful :) |
| 22:49.06 | jthomas | "similar usb connector" meaning its not a standard?? |
| 22:49.52 | wiml | if a usb host doesn't supply power then it's not standard |
| 22:50.25 | xorAxAx | the usb host has to check if the power requirements are satisfyable |
| 22:50.40 | jthomas | hm. how about the connection type? (hardware/shape/pins) |
| 22:50.41 | xorAxAx | so if openmoko correctly answers "no power for you, jerk" |
| 22:50.49 | xorAxAx | then it doesnt work with a simple battery pack :) |
| 22:51.07 | timtimred | isnt usb power optional in the USB 2 spec not a requirement? |
| 22:51.19 | jthomas | doesn't matter since this is USB 1.1 |
| 22:51.25 | timtimred | that too? |
| 22:51.31 | wiml | xorAxAx: I'm pretty sure there's a minimum power requirement, because the device needs to be able to draw enough power to tell the host how much power it needs :-) |
| 22:51.43 | jthomas | but really how different are the two that we couldn't get 2.0? I honestly don't know... |
| 22:51.51 | xorAxAx | wiml: yes, right, and there is a max as well |
| 22:52.00 | xorAxAx | as long as it doesnt have asked, it may only draw X mA |
| 22:52.04 | wiml | yeah |
| 22:52.24 | wiml | so if the moko won't even supply X mA (whatever that is, like 50 ma or something?) then isn't it noncompliant? |
| 22:52.38 | xorAxAx | yes, it would be noncompliant |
| 22:52.45 | xorAxAx | i guess |
| 22:52.51 | Revmeupbaby | jthomas, I was under the impression that USB 2 was more or less USB1.1 and USB2 High speed was the actual improvement |
| 22:53.12 | jthomas | too bad. adding any USB device will be bulky; having to add a powered hub will stink |
| 22:53.29 | jthomas | Rev, i have no idea! but thats interesting |
| 22:53.33 | timtimred | it'll be in the spec http://www.usb.org/developers |
| 22:53.50 | holycow | Revmeupbaby, actually thats exactly what it is i think |
| 22:54.28 | wiml | rev: I think there are some tiny tiny changes between 1.1 and 2.0-without-high-speed but I don't know what they are |
| 22:54.47 | xorAxAx | jthomas: i recently got a self-powered HD |
| 22:54.54 | xorAxAx | that would work fine |
| 22:55.14 | jthomas | self powered HDD? cool |
| 22:55.17 | cbpage | i think the sony psp has the same kind of connector |
| 22:55.33 | cbpage | they use it to view photos, since the camera has it's own power |
| 22:55.49 | jthomas | so is the USB port USB-A or USB-B or USB-Sony-Mini ? |
| 22:56.36 | *** join/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R3478.r.pppool.de) |
| 22:56.50 | jthomas | cause i can see a dozen adapters and powerpacks needed just to plug in a keybd or something here... |
| 22:57.22 | cbpage | probably mini-b |
| 22:57.27 | jthomas | hm k |
| 22:57.40 | cbpage | (ala psp, n770, et al) |
| 22:58.25 | *** part/#openmoko cegy (n=cegy@213.29.124.5) |
| 22:58.49 | jthomas | so the Neo1973 acts like a slave device. Bummer. |
| 22:59.06 | jthomas | The big reason I've not got a 770 yet as well... |
| 22:59.15 | Revmeupbaby | well the mailing lists suggest host mode but without power |
| 22:59.46 | xorAxAx | no, it wont be an usb host |
| 22:59.46 | Revmeupbaby | nope? |
| 22:59.47 | *** join/#openmoko lardman (n=simon@89.240.90.132) |
| 22:59.47 | Revmeupbaby | damn |
| 22:59.47 | xorAxAx | s/wont/will/ |
| 22:59.47 | xorAxAx | :) |
| 22:59.47 | jthomas | what kinda cable is needed for host mode though, if the other side is always USB-A ? |
| 22:59.54 | Revmeupbaby | make snese damnit! :) |
| 23:00.10 | xorAxAx | jthomas: that is not bound to the cable |
| 23:00.14 | mjr | incidentally, 770 can also work as an unpowered host, similarly |
| 23:00.15 | wiml | there's also "usb on-the-go" which is like a bisexual usb, can be either host or device, designed for things like cell phones. would be sweet |
| 23:00.18 | xorAxAx | i guess you can buy gender switchers |
| 23:00.30 | mjr | won't buy that though |
| 23:00.32 | jthomas | suppose |
| 23:00.37 | jthomas | yeah me either |
| 23:00.57 | jthomas | i want this to work without all the craap that makes other phones useless! |
| 23:01.13 | mjr | I have a bit of a beef with nokia's love-hate openness and freedom |
| 23:01.30 | jthomas | and without adapters that makes me look like the geek that i hide inside! |
| 23:01.34 | xorAxAx | yeah, i wouldnt want to buy a 770 either |
| 23:01.39 | xorAxAx | because they just released the 800 |
| 23:01.42 | jthomas | :) |
| 23:01.43 | Revmeupbaby | I suspect with v1 we will have to compromise a bit :) but I am in :) |
| 23:02.08 | jthomas | true but will v2 be that much redesigned? |
| 23:02.15 | xorAxAx | 800 and openmoko pair up quite well |
| 23:02.23 | Revmeupbaby | I would hope v2 had wifi :) |
| 23:02.28 | jthomas | that they'll change the usb to BUSeful? ;) |
| 23:03.02 | jjazz | jthomas: I doubt you'll see powered usb on a handheld until battery tech improves dramatically |
| 23:03.23 | Revmeupbaby | one thing that I am interested in is that with a basic GPRS device that is always connected and totally customisable... and if you run a wen |
| 23:03.27 | jthomas | understandable, but if the power can come from the hub, then i just need to connector to be the correct type! |
| 23:03.33 | Revmeupbaby | web based service |
| 23:03.39 | xorAxAx | yeah, when will we see russian nuclear energy driven PDAs with a Z80 in them? :) |
| 23:03.53 | Revmeupbaby | then you have the ideal remote control for you web based app |
| 23:04.20 | jthomas | putting the mini-b connector in there makes it kinda limited. Not kinda; very, for us non-hardware hackers |
| 23:04.30 | jjazz | jthomas: I fear the same is true for wifi. |
| 23:04.32 | xorAxAx | jthomas: you can buy cables |
| 23:04.45 | jthomas | same for wifi huh? |
| 23:04.46 | jjazz | (although to a lesser degree) |
| 23:05.01 | jthomas | xorAxAx good to know, i'l lhave to look |
| 23:05.10 | jjazz | jthomas: Wifi is such a power hungry option that if cell phones had it, standby time would drop to rather poor levels |
| 23:05.14 | wiml | rev: you can already do that with a (closed source) java midp phone, eg things like salling clicker which mostly goes over bt but I think it does internet stuff too |
| 23:05.15 | mjr | mini-b makes sense since the whole world is then full of cables you can stick up your moko |
| 23:05.23 | Revmeupbaby | tbh I would love wifi on this but I am impressed the damn thing exists, I was looking at the Trolltech greenphone |
| 23:05.32 | Stephmw | mjr: Ooooer missus. |
| 23:05.33 | jjazz | jthomas: It's possible to put wifi in the thing, I just don't expect it to work that well becuase it will eat too much power. |
| 23:05.38 | xorAxAx | jjazz: cell phones have it |
| 23:05.54 | jjazz | xorAxAx: Yes, they exist, but the power is an issue. |
| 23:06.02 | jthomas | jjazz gotcha |
| 23:06.26 | bjoernb_ | the keynote and the iphone thingy: http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/j47d52oo/event/ |
| 23:06.26 | Revmeupbaby | anyone have any idea what the AGPS draw is? |
| 23:06.41 | wiml | rev: ONE MILLION AMPERES |
| 23:06.43 | Revmeupbaby | as a lot of really cool ideas have it on all the time? |
| 23:06.48 | wiml | oh sorry that's the railgun |
| 23:06.59 | jthomas | mrj i have a dozen of the mini-b cables, but if the other end doesn't connect to a keybd or to my linksys ethernet adapter, wtf? but xorAxAx said there are cables, so... |
| 23:07.03 | jjazz | I thought it was the taser |
| 23:07.07 | Revmeupbaby | wiml, including the little finger :) |
| 23:07.16 | jjazz | Caution: do not operate rail gun and taser simultaneously |
| 23:07.22 | wiml | :) |
| 23:07.24 | jjazz | (they are on opposite ends of the device) |
| 23:07.59 | mjr | jthomas, those aren't the things you _usually_ want your phone hooked up to, even if it'll be possible now |
| 23:08.12 | Revmeupbaby | the reason was, that because of the draw of wifi you could have turn off if it was not in range of friendly networks |
| 23:09.03 | Stephmw | bjoernb_: not getting a stream (timing out) |
| 23:09.15 | jjazz | Stephmw: youtube has it |
| 23:09.40 | Stephmw | jjazz: oh yeah ;) |
| 23:09.52 | bjoernb_ | Stephmw: i have also problems, but i am using debian with firefox and mozilla-mplayer. |
| 23:10.15 | mjr | jjazz, http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3251 |
| 23:10.21 | jthomas | gotta go, peops. thanks for the info! i cannot wait for this! |
| 23:10.44 | Stephmw | bjoernb_: same setup |
| 23:10.51 | Stephmw | bjoernb_: on gentoo |
| 23:11.16 | gert | i saw a lot of info about networks but does the v2 get an camera? |
| 23:11.21 | jjazz | mjr: Thanks :) |
| 23:12.04 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth_ (n=daijobu@c-75-71-176-184.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 23:13.17 | Stephmw | jjazz: no joy on youtube/gvideo |
| 23:13.55 | jjazz | Stephmw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Uo_4kyrkDc |
| 23:14.43 | Stephmw | jjazz: ahhh... no mention of iphone or apple in the title... |
| 23:16.04 | Stephmw | jjazz: bah, that one's a hoax... "Green iPod" ;) |
| 23:16.29 | jjazz | Stephmw: Is it? I didn't watch it. Heh. |
| 23:17.01 | Stephmw | man, akamai is struggling under the load |
| 23:19.41 | *** part/#openmoko bjoernb_ (n=bjoernb@c130051.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 23:22.36 | *** join/#openmoko bjoernb__ (n=bjoernb@c130051.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 23:22.38 | bjoernb__ | re |
| 23:24.04 | *** part/#openmoko space_diver (n=gert@ip503d4a95.speed.planet.nl) |
| 23:27.52 | bjoernb__ | still the keynote crashes |
| 23:28.59 | wiml | gert: I don't think anyone knows, even the v1 hardware apparently isn't fully nailed down |
| 23:29.24 | Stephmw | bjoernb__: apparently Apple went for the cheap Akamai package |
| 23:29.47 | Stephmw | bjoernb__: which means that if one of the nodes doesn't have the full stream, it tries to pull from the source (even though a neighbour node may have it) |
| 23:30.04 | Stephmw | and as we all know, the source is under heavy load |
| 23:30.24 | bjoernb__ | well mplayer crashes when pressing play |
| 23:30.38 | Stephmw | give it a try from the shell |
| 23:30.49 | Stephmw | mine just waits, and waits, and waits |
| 23:30.56 | bjoernb__ | i do not have the exact adress |
| 23:31.23 | Stephmw | mplayer http://stream.qtv.apple.com/events/jan/j47d52oo/m_sub8848125_350_ref.mov |
| 23:31.29 | Stephmw | got it from the html source :) |
| 23:32.47 | bjoernb__ | Stream not seekable! file format detected |
| 23:33.02 | bjoernb__ | Initiated "audio/MPEG4-GENERIC" RTP subsession on port 35062 |
| 23:33.03 | bjoernb__ | Initiated "video/H264" RTP subsession on port 35064 |
| 23:33.08 | Stephmw | and mine waits there |
| 23:33.12 | bjoernb__ | and then nothing happens |
| 23:33.37 | bjoernb__ | is it possible to wget the movie? |
| 23:33.55 | Stephmw | nope, it uses rtsp |
| 23:33.59 | Stephmw | it's udp-based |
| 23:34.07 | Stephmw | hence 'not seekable' |
| 23:34.28 | bjoernb__ | hmpf. |
| 23:34.58 | Stephmw | it's possible to save this stuff - but we're better off waiting for someone with a reliable stream :) |
| 23:34.58 | bjoernb__ | http://www.greenpeace.org/apple/ |
| 23:35.13 | bjoernb__ | okay |
| 23:35.35 | Stephmw | or non-peak US times |
| 23:35.56 | bjoernb__ | well now it is half past midnight here. |
| 23:36.29 | bjoernb__ | i just wanted to see it tonight, but unfortunately i have to get up at half past 5am |
| 23:36.37 | Stephmw | it's between 6 and 3pm US... bad timing |
| 23:39.52 | bjoernb__ | good night Stephmw[Zzzzz] |
| 23:41.21 | Revmeupbaby | actually, to save us all leaving a dormant bot on the channel, would it not make more sense for someone to run a general log? |
| 23:41.53 | stefan_schmidt | ~log |
| 23:41.55 | apt | somebody said log was as piece of wood, or a record, or the opposite of exponentiation |
| 23:42.07 | stefan_schmidt | hmm |
| 23:43.26 | Revmeupbaby | yay :) next time I get an unsolicited vendor calling : yes we have full logging, we have a 45ft pine in the car park :) |
| 23:43.45 | Revmeupbaby | how is it backed up? |
| 23:44.04 | cbpage | i wonder how locked down the linux in the new moto rizr z6 is |
| 23:44.05 | Revmeupbaby | we planted another one in scotland |
| 23:45.56 | *** part/#openmoko unique (n=unique@ip43071.stuwe.fh-schmalkalden.de) |
| 23:46.02 | Revmeupbaby | oh with the stuff up there ^^_ you can save it with mplayer and codecs under linux or with streambox vcr, your legal juristriction may vary :( |
| 23:49.04 | rwhitby | Revmeupbaby: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko.txt |
| 23:49.11 | rwhitby | and http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko-prev.txt for the previous 24 hours |
| 23:49.37 | rwhitby | (that's the nslu2-log user doing that) |
| 23:49.49 | *** part/#openmoko Elrond (i=[fdcixYq@irc.fem.tu-ilmenau.de) |
| 23:51.24 | rwhitby | and http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko/ for logs of all days since Nov 29 |
