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| 00:48.50 | nasum | lol emacs client that rules |
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| 02:06.54 | yacc | hrw|gone: I beg pardon. 2.4. is used in a number of systems "that-just-work", and won't be replaced till these break ;) |
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| 04:53.25 | *** topic/#openmoko is OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.com | http://lists.openmoko.org | ETA: January 2007 | Direct-Sale World Wide | No Preorders yet |
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| 06:27.45 | greentux_alt | hrw|gone: morning, for info: sean will be @fosdem. |
| 06:42.38 | Psi_ | does this channel get a little more lively at certain times? |
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| 06:54.01 | mickey|earlybird | morning guys |
| 06:54.12 | mickey|earlybird | Psi_: european work times usually work best |
| 06:54.39 | Psi_ | i see |
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| 07:45.28 | aloril | this is a bit like first 'personal computers', except much better: now almost all is open |
| 07:46.11 | aloril | mickey|earlybird: did you research touch screen? 3rd question: would twiddler2 like functionality be possible on it? |
| 07:50.54 | mickey|earlybird | did not have much time for the ts yet. I'm afraid 4 fingers won't match, because the display is only 4.5mm x 6.2mm |
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| 07:53.37 | aloril | you mean 4.5cm x 6.2cm? ok, I guess then maybe something like http://www.strout.net/info/ideas/hexinput.html but with 2-3 fingers |
| 07:54.30 | aloril | probably a lot changed from 1 finger hexinput idea, but I think with 3 finger gestures might achieve something nice |
| 07:54.47 | aloril | maybe even faster input than traditional keyboard |
| 07:56.42 | mickey|earlybird | ya, that hex input looks interesting |
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| 08:31.17 | Stephmw | g'morning |
| 08:36.09 | mickey|earlybird | morning stefan_schmidt |
| 08:36.14 | mickey|earlybird | ~lart tab competion |
| 08:36.16 | mickey|earlybird | morning Stephmw |
| 08:38.53 | Stephmw | I really need my other half to start working and earning more than me... I need a year's worth of holidays :) |
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| 08:42.27 | mickey|earlybird | :) |
| 08:42.33 | mickey|earlybird | same here |
| 08:42.55 | mickey|earlybird | initial idea was to make half a year pause after submitting the ph.d thesis |
| 08:43.07 | mickey|earlybird | i ended up getting into a project seamlessly |
| 08:43.08 | mickey|earlybird | *sigh* |
| 08:43.19 | hrw|work | ;) |
| 08:43.35 | hrw|work | I finally will start making money from OE work |
| 08:44.03 | hrw|work | no more crappy php programming |
| 08:46.06 | mickey|earlybird | congrats. quite an improvement :) |
| 08:46.44 | hrw|work | yep - now I will officially spend more of time on OE:D |
| 08:46.51 | Stephmw | woo :) |
| 08:47.05 | Stephmw | mickey|earlybird: yeah, seamless projects are my curse too |
| 08:58.55 | Stephmw | mickey|earlybird: will take a snowboarding break end of this month, and of course a quick FOSDEM in February |
| 09:01.10 | mickey|earlybird | cool, will meet you there |
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| 09:04.06 | hrw|work | 1 |
| 09:40.58 | so_solid_moo | still no phone :/ |
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| 13:16.05 | Eblis | is there any information available on the actual release date ? :) |
| 13:16.18 | Eblis | (probably asked a lot around here) |
| 13:17.09 | Cockroach- | I suppose the topic is as precise as it gets |
| 13:17.19 | Eblis | aha |
| 13:17.20 | Eblis | thanks |
| 13:17.50 | mickeyl | but that's just a guess |
| 13:18.57 | Elrond | Are there any plans for real world shops, where one can look at it before buying? |
| 13:20.15 | mickeyl | probably not. at least not pushed by FIC. |
| 13:20.40 | mickeyl | there will probably be some shops carrying the devices, but they won't be official resellers |
| 13:21.33 | Elrond | Hmm, okay. |
| 13:22.19 | Elrond | I like to have things in my hand before spending lots of money. (I've bad eyes. Testing things before buying is important to me.) |
| 13:22.30 | hrw|work | mickeyl: FIC should get some for FOSDEM to sell ;D |
| 13:23.07 | stefan_schmidt | hrw|work: Not sell, give away. ;) |
| 13:24.00 | Elrond | If I get one for free as a developer, I wouldn't care too much. ;o) |
| 13:24.17 | *** part/#openmoko Eludias_ (n=Eludias_@ehv01e.pixs.philips.com) |
| 13:24.39 | Elrond | But I guess, there will only be a small discount for developers. |
| 13:25.52 | mickeyl | heh |
| 13:26.04 | mickeyl | dunno |
| 13:26.11 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=Miranda@82.77.126.134) |
| 13:26.18 | mickeyl | once we are in full production mode, I'll pester FIC to host developer contest and stuff |
| 13:27.05 | Elrond | :) |
| 13:28.22 | Elrond | Is that the only current hw spec available? http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html |
| 13:30.06 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: yes |
| 13:30.55 | Elrond | That leaves a lot of questions open ;) |
| 13:40.12 | mickeyl | tell us your 3 most wanted questions |
| 13:40.38 | Eblis | 1) .Net support ? |
| 13:40.40 | Eblis | :) |
| 13:40.47 | mickeyl | via gprs and usb |
| 13:40.51 | Elrond | Eblis - That's not hardware. |
| 13:40.51 | hrw|work | 1: BT or not, 2: how BT is connected? |
| 13:40.59 | Lumpio- | Eblis: If somebody ports Mono :P |
| 13:41.13 | stefan_schmidt | hrw|work: 2: USB |
| 13:41.14 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis_ (n=Miranda@82.77.126.134) |
| 13:41.21 | mickeyl | bluetooth... hmmm.... 85% sure, usb. |
| 13:41.22 | Lumpio- | No builtin BT? |
| 13:41.35 | mickeyl | there are internal usb connections |
| 13:41.36 | Eblis_ | opps, didn't see the answer to my question (.Net support) |
| 13:41.36 | Lumpio- | :o |
| 13:41.54 | Lumpio- | o |
| 13:42.01 | hrw|work | mickeyl: BT 1.2 only? no BT 2.0 with EDR? |
| 13:42.03 | mickeyl | Eblis: GPRS, USB, (likely) BT |
| 13:42.10 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: He mean mono |
| 13:42.19 | Elrond | 1) WLAN? |
| 13:42.21 | mickeyl | oh .net |
| 13:42.21 | Lumpio- | .NET as in that framework thingie |
| 13:42.23 | mickeyl | hehehehe |
| 13:42.26 | mickeyl | i see |
| 13:42.30 | stefan_schmidt | Eblis: I guess not out-of-the-box |
| 13:42.35 | Lumpio- | Eblis: Port Mono :P |
| 13:42.37 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: No wlan |
| 13:42.51 | mickeyl | software wise, the answer for almost all your questions is: if someone wants to do it |
| 13:42.52 | Stephmw | wlan would suck too much juice imo |
| 13:42.56 | Lumpio- | As long as it runs something like Python (which is surely will) I'll be happy |
| 13:43.00 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Good bt chipsets can do BT _or_ wlan. |
| 13:43.15 | Lumpio- | Tbh this device would be great if it wasn't for the lack of proper Internet connection :I |
| 13:43.34 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Good chips with open source driver? |
| 13:43.36 | Eblis_ | mickeyl: that usually the answer for all opensource projects :) |
| 13:43.45 | Eblis_ | if someone wants it then it's available :) |
| 13:43.52 | Lumpio- | Something that is faster than a 56k modem and doesn't require me to stand within 5m from one of the ten BT Internet access points in the country |
| 13:44.03 | mickeyl | indeed. that's something we can learn today. OpenMoko is a open source project more than anything else |
| 13:44.06 | mickeyl | :) |
| 13:45.02 | aloril | mickeyl: shell included out of box? (I think I saw somebody mentioning busybox) |
| 13:45.21 | mickeyl | aloril: absolutely. it's a hacker device :) |
| 13:45.26 | Eblis_ | i was asking about .net (and not mono) because i've heard it's a bit slow |
| 13:45.37 | aloril | mickeyl: python included out of box too? |
| 13:45.45 | Eblis_ | but i have no experience with mono and i do not know if it is indeed [much] slower than .Net or not |
| 13:46.10 | mickeyl | dunno. that depends on how much the actual flash will be and how long we are supposed to delay launching the hardware because the software lacks ;) |
| 13:46.17 | stefan_schmidt | Eblis: What other .NET implementations are available for linux |
| 13:46.20 | stefan_schmidt | ? |
| 13:46.30 | CM | No ir on it? Would be a mean remote.. |
| 13:46.35 | mickeyl | seriously, i expect the device to ship bare bones... dialer, app manager, base PIM. the rest will come gradually |
| 13:46.43 | stefan_schmidt | CM: no ir |
| 13:46.56 | Lumpio- | Eblis: .NET is a framework, Mono is an implementation of it. |
| 13:47.12 | Lumpio- | The framework itself isn't really "fast" or "slow" |
| 13:47.42 | CM | stefan_schmidt: I haven't heard any about it, but it's fairly common on mobiles |
| 13:47.45 | Lumpio- | Hrm, you think the OpenMoko will have a camera in the next version? |
| 13:47.57 | Lumpio- | I mean... I wouldn't mind having a camera that's "always with me". |
| 13:48.22 | aloril | Lumpio-: just download using some existing highspeed connection and put to micro-SD card (or use USB-WiFi/whatever with power injector) |
| 13:48.24 | Elrond | CM - ir has died out again. Everybody seems to love BT.... Except I have no BT device at all. |
| 13:48.33 | Stephmw | mobile phone cameras leave a lot to be desired, quality-wise |
| 13:48.59 | stefan_schmidt | Stephmw: BE fair, they just sucks at all. ;) |
| 13:49.17 | Lumpio- | Elrond: Download what? o_O |
| 13:49.22 | Lumpio- | aloril even |
| 13:49.22 | Elrond | I don't want a camera in my phone. :) |
| 13:49.39 | aloril | any good USB controllable camera with open support (ie. linux) that is not too pricey? |
| 13:49.48 | Elrond | Wait: The usb is host or client? |
| 13:49.49 | Lumpio- | Webcams? :P |
| 13:50.34 | aloril | Elrond: I think both, but unpowered (need powered hub for example) |
| 13:50.58 | aloril | Lumpio-: umm.. are any actually good? |
| 13:51.02 | freak132 | cameraphones have horrible quality because they have such tiny lenses and a tiny focal distance as well (distance between the dlense and the CCD) |
| 13:51.07 | Stephmw | stefan_schmidt: ok, ok, so they do :) |
| 13:51.10 | Lumpio- | There are some good webcams, driver support is abysmal though :\ |
| 13:51.22 | Stephmw | stefan_schmidt: I'm also spoilt, I use a dSLR for my stuff nowdays |
| 13:52.02 | Stephmw | freak132: you forgot 'and shitty-quality optics' |
| 13:52.05 | Elrond | I use a fixed lens dslr-class. ;) |
| 13:52.08 | freak132 | and the usb connection on the openmoko isnt a usb host connector if i remember correctly |
| 13:52.14 | freak132 | Stephmw: thanks |
| 13:52.36 | Lumpio- | Er I remember some sites saying it's "unpowered" |
| 13:52.42 | Lumpio- | Wouldn't make sense to say that about a client-only USB |
| 13:52.47 | Stephmw | Elrond: aye, 50mm f1.8 prime for speed, and assorted glass |
| 13:53.21 | Elrond | Stephmw - :) |
| 13:53.24 | stefan_schmidt | Lumpio-: But you can use it as host usb, just need to but a powered usb hub between. |
| 13:53.28 | rob_w | sooo , ETA is here , any news ? |
| 13:53.36 | stefan_schmidt | rob_w: no |
| 13:53.50 | Lumpio- | stefan_schmidt: I know, I was just semireplyinf to freak132 saying it isn't USB host |
| 13:54.12 | Lumpio- | inf being ing |
| 13:54.16 | Stephmw | Elrond: latest love of my life is a 17-85mm f4-5,6 IS USM... shooting the moon at iso100 and 1/80s is sweet |
| 13:55.10 | Elrond | Stephmw - 35mm equiv? |
| 13:55.18 | aloril | mickeyl: well.. I'm happy if it has basic phone stuff working + shell + ipkg (maybe browser and ssh too?) |
| 13:55.34 | koen | Stephmw: that's only ef-s, though |
| 13:55.35 | aloril | mickeyl: prefer to get hardware now, software can always be updated later ;-) |
| 13:55.35 | Elrond | ipkg? |
| 13:56.01 | koen | Stephmw: http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=32&sort=7&cat=2 is sweet |
| 13:56.06 | Lumpio- | Tbh I don't care what software it comes with out of the box as long as it comes with the necessary software to add software :P |
| 13:56.32 | Stephmw | Elrond: x1.6 crop factor |
| 13:57.22 | aloril | Elrond: reportedly it uses it: http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/Ipkg |
| 13:57.38 | Stephmw | Elrond: so off the top of my head... 27-100something |
| 13:57.46 | Elrond | Stephmw - That's about the lens my one has. f2.8-f5 or so. |
| 13:57.52 | koen | Stephmw: 136 |
| 13:58.18 | Stephmw | koen: cheers |
| 13:58.39 | koen | Stephmw: http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/taking-pictures-of-the-moon :) |
| 13:58.55 | Stephmw | it was a natural upgrade from my two other lenses (kit 17-55 and 24-105) |
| 13:59.21 | koen | 24-105L? |
| 13:59.23 | Stephmw | it was also cheap(ish) |
| 13:59.26 | Stephmw | hell NO |
| 13:59.34 | Stephmw | haven't got any expensive glass yet |
| 14:00.13 | aloril | it would be nice to have good camera with complete software stack as free |
| 14:00.51 | Stephmw | koen: nice set - tripod I imagine? |
| 14:00.58 | koen | yep |
| 14:01.10 | koen | Stephmw: but 1/200 F16 with iso400 |
| 14:01.19 | koen | the moon is actually pretty bright |
| 14:01.45 | Stephmw | definately - although I wouldn't shoot that slow without a tripod/IS |
| 14:02.03 | Elrond | aloril - hehe... like one comedy here: "Soon we can buy stocks using using our hairdryer. Afterwards we don't own our hair, of course." |
| 14:03.32 | aloril | anybody tried yet taking several images of moon and then combine 'super resolution' image from them? |
| 14:03.40 | Elrond | So from a networking point of view, we have usn, bt and gprs, right? |
| 14:04.12 | mickeyl | yes, likely, yes |
| 14:04.22 | mickeyl | [usb,bt,gprs] |
| 14:04.27 | Stephmw | aloril: segmented telescopes do fine :-) |
| 14:06.20 | Elrond | only bt and usb sound nearrly fast enough for a networked fs... |
| 14:06.25 | aloril | Stephmw: well.. I was thinking just normal consumer cameras ;-) |
| 14:07.00 | koen | for 'super resolution' pix you need at least a 600mm lens |
| 14:07.05 | koen | and those aren't cheap |
| 14:07.18 | Stephmw | aye |
| 14:07.40 | koen | let's timeshare a canon 1200mm lens! |
| 14:07.50 | koen | it's only €100k |
| 14:07.55 | mickeyl | hrw|work: 2.0+EDR |
| 14:07.57 | mickeyl | :D |
| 14:08.19 | hrw|work | mickeyl: you got 2.0edr? nice |
| 14:08.26 | mickeyl | *nod* |
| 14:08.29 | *** join/#openmoko Blain (n=DemonBob@ns1000.ntgdc.com) |
| 14:08.44 | aloril | koen: umm.. no, I meant super-resolution achieved by software by combining series of images taken from same object |
| 14:08.46 | hrw|work | mickeyl: how fast connection you got with it? |
| 14:08.57 | Stephmw | koen: http://photos.jibble.org/Moonphotos |
| 14:08.59 | Elrond | 2) The gps works? ;) |
| 14:09.03 | mickeyl | hrw|work: no idea. no chance to test yet |
| 14:09.11 | Stephmw | koen: not mine, but better glass that I'll ever buy :) |
| 14:09.15 | Stephmw | *than |
| 14:09.40 | Lumpio- | 320x240 CMOS webcam, plastic lens, with fixed focus = win |
| 14:11.32 | hrw|work | mickeyl: do you have second 2.0edr device to check with? |
| 14:11.46 | koen | mickeyl: http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/geotagging/?fn=IMG_6544.JPG |
| 14:11.51 | mickeyl | hrw: i don't think so... except perhaps my k800i ? |
| 14:12.19 | mickeyl | heh. geotagging? cool |
| 14:12.27 | koen | mickeyl: a few lines of php and javascript to show why I like gps's :) |
| 14:12.35 | mickeyl | koen: yeah, definitly. that' |
| 14:12.36 | mickeyl | s neat |
| 14:12.40 | mickeyl | i want to have that on the neo |
| 14:12.44 | mickeyl | ah damn |
| 14:12.46 | mickeyl | no cam :/ |
| 14:13.22 | koen | mickeyl: http://oregonstate.edu/~earlyj/gpsphotolinker/ |
| 14:13.31 | mickeyl | hrw|work: i might buy a 2.0edr bluetooth usb dongle eventually |
| 14:13.50 | mickeyl | nice |
| 14:14.16 | hrw|work | mickeyl: Logitech made one for their keyboard/mouse BT sets. check ebay for dongles itself. |
| 14:14.29 | koen | 'dongle' |
| 14:14.38 | *** join/#openmoko [g2] (n=g2@nslu2-linux/g2) |
| 14:14.44 | koen | the bluetooth dongle is in the charging station |
| 14:14.48 | hrw|work | hi [g2] |
| 14:14.59 | [g2] | morning hrw|work ! |
| 14:15.04 | hrw|work | koen: it is normal usb stick size |
| 14:15.28 | [g2] | are you guys talking about the N800 or openmoko or other ? |
| 14:16.53 | koen | mickeyl: I just want something that logs gpx tracks (or something gpsbabel can convert in to gpx tracks) and associate that with pictures taken |
| 14:17.43 | Eblis_ | Lumpio-: i was referring to Microsoft's implementation of .Net |
| 14:17.44 | Eblis_ | :) |
| 14:18.20 | Stephmw | Eblis_: looks like you've volunteered to write .Mono Compact :) |
| 14:18.21 | stefan_schmidt | Eblis_: You know that OpenMoko is a Linux framework? |
| 14:19.14 | Eblis_ | yeah, i know |
| 14:19.22 | Eblis_ | sorry, was a bit busy |
| 14:19.39 | Eblis_ | i just read the line where someone asked if python was available ... that's ok too :) |
| 14:21.50 | Elrond | mickeyl, koen - The gps is one of the things I'm interested in the neo. |
| 14:21.52 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=Miranda@82.77.126.134) |
| 14:22.59 | [g2] | koen gpsbabel converts from nmea to gpx |
| 14:23.10 | koen | [g2]: right |
| 14:23.39 | [g2] | there's an option to specify the number of points in the track to save |
| 14:23.40 | aloril | koen: http://hanson.gmu.edu/image.pdf (seems original site has died) |
| 14:25.14 | *** join/#openmoko lardman (n=lardman@138.38.73.178) |
| 14:25.49 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=Miranda@82.77.126.134) |
| 14:29.02 | koen | mickeyl: http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/geotagging/trail.php |
| 14:29.17 | koen | mickeyl: that parses every jpg and adds a marker on the map |
| 14:29.29 | koen | mickeyl: clicking on the marker pops up a thumbnail |
| 14:29.29 | mickeyl | what a cool thing |
| 14:30.12 | koen | the source: http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/geotagging/trail.phps |
| 14:30.16 | koen | (sorry hrw) |
| 14:30.55 | koen | did that during a coffee break |
| 14:31.26 | mickeyl | nice |
| 14:35.17 | Stephmw | I wish I could code on non-work related stuff in my breaks - but then it'd belong to my employer |
| 14:38.05 | koen | my current employer isn't really in the software biz :) |
| 14:38.26 | mickeyl | bbl, going out for lunch |
| 14:38.36 | koen | ~bon appetit |
| 14:38.37 | apt | from memory, bon appetit is smacznego. Guten Appetit. Eet Smakelijk. God Appetitt. Buon Appetito. Buen apetito Bom Apetite. buen apetito |
| 14:39.22 | mickeyl | merci |
| 14:52.17 | CM | koen: Add "Smaklig måltid" to apts bon appetit ;) |
| 14:53.42 | hrw|work | CM: you do this too |
| 14:53.55 | CM | Ok, how? :) |
| 14:53.58 | hrw|work | CM: use 'apt: bon appetit is also Smaklig mĺltid' |
| 14:54.08 | CM | aha |
| 14:54.34 | CM | apt: bon appetit is also Smaklig måltid! |
| 14:54.35 | apt | okay, CM |
| 14:54.52 | hrw|work | ~bon appetit |
| 14:54.54 | apt | i heard bon appetit is smacznego. Guten Appetit. Eet Smakelijk. God Appetitt. Buon Appetito. Buen apetito Bom Apetite. buen apetito Smaklig måltid! |
| 14:55.11 | Elrond | ~smacznego |
| 14:55.57 | aloril | apt: bon appetit is also Hyvää ruokahalua |
| 14:55.58 | apt | aloril: i'm not going to learn illegal characters |
| 14:56.37 | CM | ~blootbot |
| 14:56.38 | apt | i heard blootbot is an IRC bot written in perl descended from infobot. Hosted on SF. Patches welcome, submit on SF or mailto:Tim@Rikers.org, or http://blootbot.sourceforge.net/,. I am a blootbot |
| 14:56.59 | CM | Hehe.. The homepage says "The slowest and most bloated bot in the world" |
| 15:00.01 | aloril | apt: bon appetit is also Hyvää ruokahalua |
| 15:00.03 | apt | i'm not going to learn illegal characters, aloril |
| 15:00.58 | hrw|work | aloril: use utf8 |
| 15:01.22 | koen | apt: bon appetit is also Hyvää ruokahalua |
| 15:01.23 | apt | koen: i'm not going to learn illegal characters |
| 15:01.45 | koen | weird, my client should be utf8 |
| 15:03.16 | aloril | hmm.. ditto, xchat claims my current charset is UTF-8 .. |
| 15:07.51 | aloril | apt: bon appetit is also Hyvää ruokahalua |
| 15:07.52 | apt | aloril: okay |
| 15:08.17 | aloril | seems to use ISO-8859-15 ;-) |
| 15:08.30 | aloril | (changed back to UTF-8) |
| 15:08.46 | aloril | ~bon appetit |
| 15:08.47 | apt | bon appetit is probably smacznego. Guten Appetit. Eet Smakelijk. God Appetitt. Buon Appetito. Buen apetito Bom Apetite. buen apetito Smaklig måltid!. Hyvää ruokahalua |
| 15:42.51 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p54AA6918.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:49.04 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:50.59 | Stephmw | aloril: any idea if the image.pdf guys ever wrote any software for that stuff? |
| 15:51.30 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@83.209.124.114) |
| 15:51.50 | Elrond | Stephmw - Some "super resolution" stuff is in "ale". |
| 15:51.58 | Elrond | (debian: apt-get install ale) |
| 15:56.18 | *** join/#openmoko jjazz (n=jjazz@cpe-24-90-14-159.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 15:57.27 | Stephmw | Elrond: very interesting! I'll give it a whirl when I get home |
| 15:59.05 | Elrond | Stephmw - It's not very userfriendly... And my quick tries with strange data did not really give a usable result. YMMV. |
| 16:00.11 | Elrond | <-- on his way home. |
| 16:01.58 | koen | mickeyl: maemo3 uses gtk 2.10 |
| 16:07.00 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 16:09.27 | mickeyl | interesting. they forward ported all their patches? |
| 16:10.03 | koen | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/MaemoGtk210Changes |
| 16:10.08 | koen | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/MaemoGtk210Changes |
| 16:10.20 | koen | I kind of expected it |
| 16:10.37 | koen | since nokia dudes posted profiles made on an arm11 to the performance list |
| 16:10.49 | koen | they went very silent after I pointed that out :) |
| 16:11.05 | mickeyl | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/MaemoGtk26Rationales is pretty interesting as well |
| 16:15.33 | *** join/#openmoko vargr (n=vargr@dsl092-109-027.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:34.20 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-164-086.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:34.47 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@70.165.255.9) |
| 16:44.02 | aloril | Stephmw[Zzzzz]: yes, but no idea if its published anywhere |
| 17:13.58 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=m@195.227.105.180) |
| 17:40.40 | *** join/#openmoko thedaniel (n=daniel@38.98.1.19) |
| 18:15.59 | aloril | mickeyl: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-December/000576.html answer some questions |
| 18:16.31 | mickeyl | righto |
| 18:16.42 | mickeyl | there were leaked documents floating around for a totally different product :/ |
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| 18:21.01 | Elrond | Can the gsm module be deactivated from software? |
| 18:21.32 | koen | I think so |
| 18:22.02 | koen | worst case scenario: twiddle gpios with devmem2 |
| 18:22.16 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p85.212.187.151.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 18:23.24 | Elrond | The idea is to use the thing as a nice gps :) |
| 18:25.02 | mickeyl | the gsm has to be "power-downable" |
| 18:25.08 | mickeyl | at least according to the regulations |
| 18:25.12 | mickeyl | we must support a flight mode |
| 18:25.27 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 18:25.44 | Elrond | My current cell phone has to be switched of for "flight mode" ;) |
| 18:25.50 | koen | mickeyl: maybe you put it in agpsd and 'we' don't have access to it ;) |
| 18:26.01 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@83.209.124.114) |
| 18:28.18 | mickeyl | koen: flight mode into agpsd? |
| 18:29.32 | koen | mickeyl: dunno how opensource avoiding the FIC code drones are |
| 18:29.46 | mickeyl | heh |
| 18:29.49 | mickeyl | they're getting better :) |
| 18:30.08 | koen | if you say "only agpsd is closed" it sudden;y grows to 8MB |
| 18:30.33 | mickeyl | heh right |
| 18:30.40 | mickeyl | init=/sbin/agpsd |
| 18:30.53 | mickeyl | :D |
| 18:31.04 | mickeyl | all apps in one binary |
| 18:31.09 | koen | "highly integrated" |
| 18:31.13 | Elrond | Oh? Not everything will be (free) opensource? |
| 18:31.30 | spikebik1 | everything except the gps daemon |
| 18:31.34 | spikebik1 | (so I've heard) |
| 18:31.44 | Elrond | Why the gps daemon? |
| 18:31.59 | spikebik1 | it's rather complicated and propietary |
| 18:32.06 | koen | otherwise it would have disturbed the force |
| 18:32.09 | spikebik1 | not that you couldn't write one |
| 18:32.22 | mickeyl | super-secret AGPS chipset containing lots of IP that has to be protected |
| 18:32.50 | spikebik1 | not sure exactly what AGPS is, except that it's supposed to let cell towers help somehow |
| 18:33.33 | Elrond | I would have understood that in the gsm area. with the gsm encryption, bla bla. |
| 18:33.38 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:35.10 | greentux | helps gps to have a faster initial phase |
| 18:35.25 | greentux | usally initiating (cold) takes some minutes |
| 18:35.50 | Elrond | How does it work? |
| 18:36.01 | Elrond | And: Are there plans to opensource that part? |
| 18:36.24 | greentux | a normal gps asks you "where you are" and you can put a tap on a map. then th egps calculates which satellites it could read |
| 18:36.38 | greentux | agps gets these info via gsm. |
| 18:36.54 | greentux | you can get ste specs and write a daemon. but i think the specs are not really open |
| 18:37.27 | Elrond | koen - Oh, you get me a legal copy of it? ;o) |
| 18:37.40 | Elrond | <-- currently has no ida pro. |
| 18:38.11 | Elrond | greentux - Ahh, so if I disable the gsm module, it gets down to a normal gps? |
| 18:38.59 | Elrond | (heh, I don't care to wait two minutes for the first fix.) |
| 18:39.12 | spikebik1 | dunno |
| 18:39.24 | spikebik1 | the weird thing is that current GPS chipsets startup cold in 40 secs or so |
| 18:39.35 | spikebik1 | one I bought today is 39 seconds I beleive |
| 18:39.47 | Elrond | Huh, fun. |
| 18:40.25 | spikebik1 | I believe yes normal GPS is possible |
| 18:40.30 | spikebik1 | (no gsm) |
| 18:40.38 | spikebik1 | but still requires the propietary module |
| 18:40.42 | spikebik1 | oh I thought agps was more |
| 18:40.49 | spikebik1 | i.e. using a GSM tower like a satelite |
| 18:41.06 | spikebik1 | improving coverage indoors and the like |
| 18:41.54 | greentux | Elrond: perhaps |
| 18:42.58 | Elrond | The gps chipset would not have been the one, where I would have expected proprietary binary code. :-| |
| 18:43.50 | greentux | no, the gsm helps with some data the gps then dont need to recieve. |
| 18:44.04 | greentux | so a very weak signal would be enough |
| 18:44.08 | Elrond | Yeah, I understand that. |
| 18:44.44 | *** join/#openmoko sannes (i=ace@har.sagt.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 18:44.59 | greentux | gps has only to measure the time. all other dates (error correction, and so on) are measured by reference rx |
| 18:45.19 | greentux | ok i have to do some "ikea" work fo rmy wife |
| 18:59.51 | Elrond | koen - Yep. That part would interest me too. |
| 19:00.32 | spikebik1 | I got one for the n770 |
| 19:00.32 | Elrond | I heard $350 for normal. Quite a lot for "just a phone" (you have to develop the rest ;) ) |
| 19:00.45 | spikebik1 | alas I've not actually written anything for it |
| 19:02.05 | spikebik1 | elrond 1/2 as much as a green phone |
| 19:02.35 | spikebik1 | btw maemo mapper is awesome on the n770 |
| 19:02.37 | koen | and in contrary to the greenphone, it is actually open |
| 19:02.41 | koen | spikebik1: it is |
| 19:02.44 | spikebik1 | something similar on the openmoko would be a killer ap |
| 19:02.55 | koen | spikebik1: now forward port the nohildon patch :) |
| 19:03.12 | koen | http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/maemo-mapper/maemo-mapper-nohildon_svn.bb |
| 19:03.33 | spikebik1 | interesting |
| 19:03.40 | greentux | koen: what is not open at the greenphone? |
| 19:03.48 | koen | greentux: almost everything |
| 19:03.55 | spikebik1 | I was actually thinking of writing a cache preloading ap for meamo mapper |
| 19:03.57 | greentux | koen: uff |
| 19:04.12 | koen | greentux: the sdk doesn't even allow you to compile busybox for your pda |
| 19:04.15 | greentux | koen: only th eqtopia phone + drm part |
| 19:04.56 | greentux | because busybox is not a qt app :) ? |
| 19:05.16 | spikebik1 | doesn't really matter IMO |
| 19:05.25 | koen | no, because the sdk breaks the gpl by specifying you are only allowed to compile for the greenphone |
| 19:05.28 | spikebik1 | at $700 it's not going to be popular or have a community |
| 19:05.35 | koen | see zecke's mail to qtopia-interest |
| 19:05.58 | greentux | interesting |
| 19:06.05 | spikebik1 | so it's either going to be the openmoku, or some other phone with a linux port |
| 19:06.12 | ljp | and zecke is a lawyer, hey |
| 19:06.20 | spikebik1 | motorola's making various linux friendly noises |
| 19:06.39 | spikebik1 | in fact the openmoko is basically a win-ce hardware... right? |
| 19:07.25 | greentux | as I understand greenphone is a dev device. perhaps some company can build a real phone with qtopia for less than $400 |
| 19:07.29 | ljp | sharp zaurus are around $700 and there is a community around them |
| 19:07.51 | ljp | gp has a very limited release numbers |
| 19:08.14 | spikebik1 | zaurus isn't really in the same market |
| 19:08.45 | greentux | there is nothing in "that" market at this moment... |
| 19:08.51 | ljp | neither is anything elase, really, as gp is more of a reference board |
| 19:09.03 | greentux | beside the GP (but only for devs) |
| 19:09.45 | spikebik1 | in any case glad to see linux support on phones progressing nicely |
| 19:10.01 | ljp | me to |
| 19:10.01 | spikebik1 | sounds like openmoko and openezx or whatever it's called can help each other |
| 19:12.05 | spikebik1 | I'm just hoping for the simple stuff |
| 19:12.43 | spikebik1 | traffic updates, maemo mapper + gps, and ability to sync my contact list |
| 19:12.49 | spikebik1 | oh, and of course, control |
| 19:16.07 | *** join/#openmoko xerom (n=jack@81.193.133.84) |
| 19:27.39 | *** join/#openmoko timtimred (n=On3@62-31-181-7.cable.ubr02.chel.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 19:37.28 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
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| 20:00.59 | Elrond | Will the supplied contact manager be able to read the phone book on the provider's gsm chip? |
| 20:01.39 | timtimred | you mean in the sim card? |
| 20:02.01 | Stephmw | don't see why not - typically the sim card is communicated with serially too :) |
| 20:02.05 | Elrond | Yes, "sim card" was the word I missed. |
| 20:02.26 | timtimred | if they finished the contact manager, sure! :D |
| 20:02.39 | Elrond | _if_ ;o) |
| 20:04.07 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Contact manager, based on eds, will talk with libgsm for this and libgsm will talk to baseband cpu which talk to sim card. :) |
| 20:04.18 | stefan_schmidt | And yes, I'm sure they will care about it. :) |
| 20:04.25 | koen | hey stefan_schmidt |
| 20:04.31 | stefan_schmidt | hi koen |
| 20:04.44 | timtimred | you mean we dont have to learn the AT commands ourselves? boo :D |
| 20:04.45 | Elrond | Ahh, something more definitive. :) |
| 20:04.49 | Elrond | Thanks stefan_schmidt :) |
| 20:05.16 | Elrond | timtimred - Yeah, I was expecting that. ;) |
| 20:05.28 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: If I'm wrong, mickeyl or LaF0rge will hurt me for it. :) |
| 20:05.45 | Elrond | Like "Ohh, a smartphone. Can one still use it for normal phones calls? ;o)" ;o) |
| 20:06.07 | koen | Elrond: that would have been funny, were it not for those asian models |
| 20:06.15 | Stephmw | stefan_schmidt: how wide is the pipe to the baseband? really what I mean is how much can we get the sim card to do while the baseband is busy with a call for instance? |
| 20:06.19 | *** join/#openmoko xerom (n=jack@bl4-133-92.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 20:06.40 | Stephmw | stefan_schmidt: especially thinking about SIM applications |
| 20:07.04 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - public flogging? ;o) |
| 20:07.53 | Stephmw | stefan_schmidt: did you ever have the chance to check out a SavaJe handset? |
| 20:08.03 | Stephmw | I know, I know, I ask too many questions :) |
| 20:08.53 | Elrond | Stephmw - hehe... I try to keep my questions down. You ask half of the questions I also have ;) |
| 20:09.09 | stefan_schmidt | Stephmw: Oh, no idea. I would suggest you ask LaF0rge in a calm minute. (Hint after the phone is out.) :) |
| 20:09.23 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: SavaJe handset? Never heard so far. |
| 20:10.07 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Stephmw asked about that handset. Whatever it is. |
| 20:10.17 | Stephmw | stefan_schmidt: essentially what FIX is doing, but using a statically linked booloader+kernel_j2seJVM |
| 20:10.33 | Stephmw | FIC, sorry, thickfinger day |
| 20:11.31 | Elrond | Ohh: Will the neo boot from sd if I manage to break the image in flash? ;) |
| 20:11.50 | Stephmw | stefan_schmidt: not that they're competition anymore (VCs asked for their money back) |
| 20:12.49 | stefan_schmidt | Stephmw: Sorry, but I can't follow you right now. :) Who is VC and what competition? |
| 20:13.20 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: I hope they will have a uboot with sd support. Not sure about it. |
| 20:13.36 | Elrond | (I managed to break my dsl-router using the documented way to upgrade the firmware. t least, I could repair it, cause it still could boot some tftp stuff.) |
| 20:14.02 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Hmm, okay. |
| 20:14.05 | Elrond | <-- heading for food. |
| 20:14.40 | Stephmw | stefan_schmidt: SavaJe was a company that aimed to create a Java phone. They were funded by venture capitalists (VCs). I'll spare the history, but the VCs got tired of waiting and pulled out. *ahem* anyway, the broad software idea was the same |
| 20:15.21 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: I'm pretty sure they will allow firmware update/restore over usb within the bootloader. Means you can break anything but not the bootloader. :) |
| 20:16.03 | stefan_schmidt | Stephmw: Ah, ok. Now I got it. Anyway never used SavaJe. |
| 20:17.06 | *** join/#openmoko rwthw (n=hjg@p54BC8848.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:33.44 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@fsf/member/bkuhn/bkuhn) |
| 20:49.23 | *** join/#openmoko variant (n=variant@unaffiliated/variant) |
| 20:49.39 | variant | arrrghh! where can i get one!! :) |
| 20:50.03 | Elrond | variant - Everyone wants to know. ;) |
| 20:50.32 | hrw | maybe on fosdem some will be available |
| 20:50.51 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 20:50.54 | Stephmw | hrw: like I said, let's get a few guys together and jump mickeyl |
| 20:51.09 | Stephmw | hrw: I hear he's 8ft tall and built like a house |
| 20:51.33 | variant | I was just thinking of getting a new phone.. this new one is very nice looking |
| 20:52.15 | Elrond | variant - I was looking for a new gps. ;) |
| 20:52.57 | variant | Elrond: yeah, hehe |
| 20:53.06 | Elrond | If it works as a phone, I'm probably happy. ;) (hopefully, I can disable gprs. Because it's super-expensive in my current paying model.) |
| 20:53.40 | hrw | Stephmw: I meet mickeyl in October |
| 20:54.41 | hrw | Stephmw: and got some infos about fic phone before it was announced - he did not wanted to say anything but I asked few question in proper way.... |
| 20:56.20 | Stephmw | hrw: that's always the case - as long as things don't leak _broadly_ too early, it's ok |
| 20:56.40 | variant | i heard about it on /. 3 months ago ;P |
| 20:57.21 | Stephmw | morricone: you get to fix its usability problems then :) |
| 20:57.37 | variant | haha lcars themes.. |
| 20:58.00 | Elrond | Stephmw - "usability problems"? |
| 20:58.23 | Stephmw | Elrond: LCARS, the UI style used in Star Trek, is full of usability problems ;) |
| 20:58.46 | *** join/#openmoko solars (n=Johnny@chello080109141057.tirol.surfer.at) |
| 20:59.27 | variant | yeah, like it was never designed to be used for anything.. just to look nice and not actualy do a damn thing |
| 21:00.21 | Elrond | Ahh, okay. I start to get it. (I'm not a treky. I never looked much at the UI in Star Trek.) |
| 21:00.46 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 21:00.57 | variant | I'm not a treky either, please please please don't label me as one :) |
| 21:01.15 | Stephmw | Elrond: http://www.lcars-terminal.net/ as an example (ok, the web isn't the best media for this) |
| 21:01.41 | Stephmw | variant: klingon word's can't restrained to a dictionary, they restrain *you* |
| 21:01.51 | Stephmw | ... ok, that was too geeky |
| 21:02.12 | variant | ha ahahhaah |
| 21:02.34 | variant | Stephmw: man, i would leave, change your nick and come back again ;) |
| 21:03.07 | hrw | I'm happy to be from wrong part of Europe when it comes to Star Trek. Here it was shown in TV too late to me became a trek fan |
| 21:03.35 | Stephmw | variant: I know, I know |
| 21:03.49 | Stephmw | you recognised your own tendencies? |
| 21:03.56 | Stephmw | so what did you become hooked to? |
| 21:04.01 | buz | i never quite understood what i was about startrek |
| 21:04.32 | timtimred | star trek is too overly politically correct |
| 21:04.39 | timtimred | really quite anally |
| 21:04.51 | Stephmw | buz: utopian future... gadgets... aliens... escapism |
| 21:05.02 | timtimred | give me sci fi with proper cliff hangers, like the new battlestar galactica anyday |
| 21:05.03 | Stephmw | timtimred: did you ever see any of the DS9 series? |
| 21:05.04 | buz | yeah all of it very badly done |
| 21:05.17 | Stephmw | timtimred: those were ethically murky |
| 21:05.24 | Stephmw | timtimred: finally some grit |
| 21:06.04 | timtimred | still very PC, trying to push through some kind of message every episode. it is great entertainment for kids, but not an adult sci fi. |
| 21:06.12 | timtimred | imho :) |
| 21:06.24 | variant | yeah, the anti drugs ep's are very annoying |
| 21:06.37 | koen | only 4 days left till a new bsg |
| 21:06.42 | timtimred | i did used to watch it :) |
| 21:06.50 | timtimred | all of them |
| 21:06.57 | Stephmw | timtimred: I like my dramas unafraid to kill off main characters ;) |
| 21:07.18 | timtimred | koen: yeah, after a big fat cliff hanger!!! gotta love it! |
| 21:07.26 | koen | yep |
| 21:08.18 | timtimred | if they use this mid series i wonder whats planned for the end. i hope they make another series and not a straight to dvd movie. |
| 21:08.54 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@wohnheim94.fh-rosenheim.de) |
| 21:08.56 | *** part/#openmoko solars (n=Johnny@chello080109141057.tirol.surfer.at) |
| 21:09.14 | timtimred | if not they can send me some of them naked boomers in compensation. |
| 21:09.15 | koen | cylon civil war? |
| 21:09.54 | timtimred | baltar finally realises hes a cylon? DOH! :D |
| 21:20.30 | Elrond | Ahh, next important question: How long does the battery last? I would hate to charge it every day. ;) (my current phone works 10 days without needing to see a power plant :) ) |
| 21:21.06 | sannes | iiiiik!! it is out!! oh my god .. nah, just joking .. still January :P |
| 21:21.26 | *** join/#openmoko esden_ (n=esden@wohnheim94.fh-rosenheim.de) |
| 21:21.33 | Elrond | sannes - *lol* |
| 21:26.05 | PirateHead | Wow, I find myself in an active #openmoko room. |
| 21:26.35 | xorAxAx | PirateHead: you can make it even more active by asking for the release date |
| 21:26.49 | so_solid_moo | hehe |
| 21:26.51 | sannes | :) |
| 21:26.54 | PirateHead | ...more or less. Still no New 1973. |
| 21:26.58 | so_solid_moo | someone really ought to put up a faq and put it in the topic.... |
| 21:27.04 | so_solid_moo | not that many will read it :o> |
| 21:27.14 | timtimred | topic? whens it out anyway? |
| 21:27.24 | timtimred | ;) |
| 21:27.35 | sannes | put up a bot that repeatedly says the neo is not out yet in priv message :P |
| 21:27.40 | PirateHead | One day I came in here and topic said "ETA: someday in January 2007" |
| 21:28.58 | *** join/#openmoko rob__w (n=bob@p85.212.133.97.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 21:30.33 | Elrond | Will it be released ever? ;) |
| 21:30.51 | sannes | PirateHead: still do, well except that .. well except "someday in" part :) |
| 21:30.58 | PirateHead | OpenMoko? Should be called OpenVapo. |
| 21:31.12 | PirateHead | Then the software compiled for it can be called VapoWare. |
| 21:31.29 | sannes | PirateHead: Can't call it vaporware until after the neo is released :P |
| 21:31.58 | Elrond | At least, it's not paperware. ;) |
| 21:32.00 | PirateHead | Speaking of which, has there been any talk about an SDK? |
| 21:32.01 | timtimred | they are waiting while they test its connectivity with the Phantom Console |
| 21:32.06 | sannes | Anyways, if it isn't released we can all start a religion instead :) |
| 21:32.19 | timtimred | to see if it can sync and simultaneously run duke nukem forever |
| 21:32.37 | PirateHead | lol @ timtimred. They are waiting to get the Linux version of Duke Nukem Forever ported to it. |
| 21:33.40 | PirateHead | Darnit, you beat me to the dnf reference. |
| 21:33.54 | sannes | .. heard that they are just waiting for that terabyte drive to come in a mobile form .. |
| 21:36.00 | PirateHead | I read on slashdot recently that higher-density drives with microfibre carbon lubricant are being developed for mobiles. |
| 21:36.10 | PirateHead | I forget by whom. |
| 21:36.24 | Psi_ | does anyone know if developers have got their phones yet? or has that not happened either? |
| 21:37.17 | variant | bunch of skeptics |
| 21:37.49 | variant | wil it have built in spell checker? |
| 21:38.19 | Elrond | variant - The usual answer for software questions: "If someone ports it" ;) |
| 21:38.43 | variant | whre is the source code? |
| 21:38.48 | hrw | Elrond: s/ports/compiles |
| 21:38.53 | Psi_ | if its got predictive text out of the box, it would have to have some sort of dictionary |
| 21:39.42 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@wohnheim94.fh-rosenheim.de) |
| 21:40.02 | variant | its called "open" but is there any source code yet? |
| 21:40.25 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth_ (n=daijobu@c-75-71-176-184.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 21:40.38 | hrw | variant: openmoko code will get released with machine |
| 21:40.40 | hrw | not before |
| 21:40.45 | koen | variant: I've seen the source code right after the announcement last yeat |
| 21:41.04 | hrw | koen: but we promised to not release it before official release |
| 21:41.27 | sannes | koen: got a copy? |
| 21:42.29 | variant | thats not very good for developers |
| 21:43.01 | timtimred | saves third parties writing code for a moving target |
| 21:43.29 | Elrond | Is it still that moving? |
| 21:43.40 | sannes | heh, true, and who would setup a crosscompiling enviroment before the hardware is out anyways .. |
| 21:43.45 | timtimred | i got carried aWAY with leopard builds until after my code broke the third time |
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| 23:26.02 | larstobi | to anyone in Trondheim; Knut Yrvin of TT will be having a talk about the Greenphone and Qtopia at my university the 13th of February. |
| 23:32.05 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
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| 23:44.16 | *** join/#openmoko olaf123 (n=lalelu_6@p548CD6B1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:44.22 | olaf123 | hi ho |
| 23:44.43 | olaf123 | is this the channel for the neo1973, too ? |
