| 00:23.09 | *** join/#openmoko Laibsc1 (n=Laibsch@R7738.r.ppp-pool.de) |
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| 01:23.22 | noidd | 'lo |
| 01:23.50 | andr34s | hi |
| 01:24.48 | noidd | any more news? :-) |
| 01:25.27 | andr34s | not that I know of |
| 01:25.35 | andr34s | been quiet here |
| 01:32.23 | noidd | it is january an all |
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| 13:06.59 | Fletch | is there a known date when the neo1973 comes out? |
| 13:08.34 | freeeak | dont know |
| 13:08.44 | koen | see topic |
| 13:08.44 | freeeak | maybe on neo site.. |
| 13:09.05 | freeeak | january |
| 13:09.13 | freeeak | no day? |
| 13:09.16 | Stephmw | nope |
| 13:09.24 | freeeak | k |
| 13:09.36 | Stephmw | stay tuned until Jan 31st, 23:59, for any announcements |
| 13:09.42 | freeeak | lol |
| 13:09.43 | Stephmw | :) |
| 13:10.20 | freeeak | hope won't be on 1st april |
| 13:10.34 | Stephmw | aha |
| 13:10.40 | Stephmw | yeah, that would blow |
| 13:12.14 | greentux | perhaps a competiotion... with some free beer @fosdem? |
| 13:12.33 | freeeak | what is the FIC's homepage? |
| 13:12.41 | freeeak | i cant find out |
| 13:13.01 | koen | see topic |
| 13:13.08 | greentux | its only the first match @google... hard |
| 13:13.14 | freeeak | no that is for openmoko |
| 13:13.27 | stefan_schmidt | fic.com.tw |
| 13:13.30 | freeeak | ok |
| 13:13.37 | koen | greentux: google, what's that? |
| 13:13.39 | freeeak | i was googling with .it |
| 13:13.49 | greentux | shit doomed google |
| 13:14.12 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
| 13:14.28 | greentux | koen: can we config the bot, that he answer the questions? |
| 13:14.33 | freeeak | yea |
| 13:14.42 | freeeak | ! |
| 13:15.02 | koen | greentux: I view it as a turing test |
| 13:15.51 | greentux | koen: yeah... ok. do You know if there beerevent will taking place? |
| 13:16.17 | koen | yes, at friday, at the roy d'espagne |
| 13:16.50 | greentux | ok, fine. |
| 13:16.57 | stefan_schmidt | hmm, it seems I have to arrive at friday not saturday. :) |
| 13:17.15 | greentux | stefan_schmidt: of cource. So we should change the topic @ #oe |
| 13:18.07 | hrw | beers... |
| 13:18.13 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 13:27.12 | hrw | yacc: because phone does not exists yet |
| 13:27.15 | xorAxAx | because its not released yet? |
| 13:27.40 | yacc | Announcments of vaporware are a tradition in the industry? *g* |
| 13:27.51 | hrw | fic does not yet even know what will be in final phone... |
| 13:28.03 | hrw | bluetoth or not bluetooth... |
| 13:30.17 | koen | mickeyl: convince the hw dudes to silkscreen a blue tooth onto the board |
| 13:30.27 | mickeyl | heh, yeah |
| 13:31.17 | koen | who needs warranty anyway? |
| 13:31.20 | hrw | koen: MACHINE_KERNEL_VERSION = 2.6 is useless in angstrom.conf |
| 13:31.26 | hrw | ops. wrong chan |
| 13:34.04 | freeeak | ty all gtg |
| 13:34.05 | freeeak | bye |
| 13:34.35 | yacc | hrw: Somehow I still don't get it how they do not know the specs of something that is scheduled to ship this month. |
| 13:35.01 | hrw | yacc: thats something which bother me too |
| 13:35.55 | stefan_schmidt | They know the specs. Only bluetooth is undecided yet. This makes just two different hardware revs. |
| 13:36.16 | yacc | Well, if they manage, that's fine, because that implies either very good NDAs on the people that do know, or a very flexible and fast manufacturing. |
| 13:37.43 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 13:37.47 | buz | they should just stick the BT on it and let the people out there fix it |
| 13:37.55 | stefan_schmidt | I heard about 100.000 phones/month manufactering. Not sure about it |
| 13:38.02 | buz | yeah i heard that too |
| 13:38.11 | buz | it's not that much when you think about it |
| 13:38.13 | yacc | Still makes one wonder. I mean the developer boxes are easy, "we" will be capable of reflashing the gadgets, but still. |
| 13:38.15 | stefan_schmidt | buz: Fix the hardware? |
| 13:38.23 | buz | i thought the software didnt work |
| 13:38.26 | koen | stefan_schmidt: the factory should be able to do 30k/day |
| 13:38.27 | buz | drivers or some such |
| 13:38.39 | stefan_schmidt | koen: wow, ok |
| 13:38.40 | buz | if the chip itself is broken it's the wrong chip really |
| 13:39.01 | stefan_schmidt | buz: Chip integration on the PCB is not that easy. |
| 13:39.08 | buz | these pcb wave soldering machines are mighty impressive things |
| 13:39.14 | buz | stefan_schmidt: so it would seem |
| 13:39.26 | stefan_schmidt | If the hardware work with BT, they will ship it with BT. For sure. |
| 13:39.44 | buz | well there's different grades of "work" |
| 13:39.53 | buz | if the reception is bad, that still might be useful to some |
| 13:40.16 | stefan_schmidt | I don't know the exactly problem. |
| 13:40.26 | buz | but if it gets dropped every 30s its not very useful anymore |
| 13:40.29 | yacc | More important, I wonder how much the phones are cheaper than the WinMobiles? (/me is curious how big the MS tax is on these phones ;) ) |
| 13:40.33 | stefan_schmidt | But I know they work hard to get it working. :) |
| 13:41.25 | buz | i just wonder, if they have so much trouble with BT, then maybe lack of WiFi is more of an engineering issue than anything else |
| 13:42.02 | hrw | buz: adding BT is much easier then adding wifi |
| 13:42.20 | hrw | BT can be serial attached and simple controlled |
| 13:42.25 | buz | exactly |
| 13:42.31 | hrw | wifi is more complicated |
| 13:42.32 | stefan_schmidt | buz: I can't say for sure, but don't think so. Wifi and linux are still a big pita. Especially for low power devices. |
| 13:42.36 | buz | and the demands on rf are smaller as well |
| 13:42.39 | koen | and bt makes more sense in a phone |
| 13:43.07 | stefan_schmidt | And of course they need sometime for the next phone. ;) |
| 13:43.32 | buz | well that could also mean people deciding to wait |
| 13:44.08 | stefan_schmidt | right, but it's to late now. |
| 13:44.39 | buz | is there an internal hub then? |
| 13:45.17 | mickeyl | think so, otherwise we'd lost usb host and that would be dumb |
| 13:45.30 | buz | pretty much so |
| 13:45.36 | buz | unless of course the soc really has two ports |
| 13:45.48 | mickeyl | oh right |
| 13:45.50 | mickeyl | let me check |
| 13:46.29 | mickeyl | hmm cool |
| 13:46.46 | mickeyl | 2-channel host (1 channel host, 1 channel switchable host/client) |
| 13:47.16 | stefan_schmidt | looks similar to pxa271 |
| 13:48.04 | buz | the "omfg-megahurtz"- architecture |
| 13:49.06 | *** part/#openmoko solars (n=Johnny@194.208.132.118) |
| 13:49.53 | buz | i wonder how long it will take for someone to overclock the soc |
| 13:49.57 | koen | stefan_schmidt: pxa isn't an ARM ltd core |
| 13:50.41 | stefan_schmidt | koen: right, I just meant 2-channel host stuff |
| 13:51.25 | buz | somehow it seems kinda unimportant just who designed the thing |
| 13:54.52 | koen | buz: it makes it easier to compare apples with apples |
| 13:55.31 | koen | 'arm920t core' will perform the same as 'arm920t core' |
| 13:55.35 | *** join/#openmoko esden_ (n=esden@dqa204.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 13:56.04 | koen | so I know the s3c2410 has about the same performance as my ep9312 |
| 13:56.13 | buz | well yes |
| 13:56.25 | buz | but in essence performance per watt is more important than how its achievec |
| 13:56.49 | koen | if you look at performance per watt intel doesn't even come into play |
| 13:57.22 | buz | i think intel doesnt actually sell anymore anyway so |
| 13:57.34 | koen | s/intel/marvell/ |
| 13:59.15 | buz | and cleaning my flat |
| 14:00.47 | buz | goes without saying that i hate cleaning |
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| 14:02.52 | hrw|gone | cu |
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| 14:34.28 | sannes | .. /last yacc .. hm, seems so, well almost anyways :) |
| 14:41.09 | yacc | sannes: Well, bouncer proxies are an incredible nice thing ;) |
| 14:42.48 | sannes | bouncer proxies? |
| 14:44.59 | sannes | ah, well this is a screen, yes :) was in a mobilephone mood, just quite didn't get it .. altough bouncer proxies would be very nice if you were to irc chat now and then from a celluar .. hm |
| 14:51.36 | *** join/#openmoko yure (n=yure@dhcp-212-235-229-194.sd.uni-lj.si) |
| 14:54.24 | buz | sannes: thats why i wont buy it in january anyway |
| 14:54.34 | buz | exams until mid february ;) |
| 14:55.53 | mickeyl | might match well *cough* |
| 14:56.15 | buz | well 2 weeks late is still good compared to some other companies |
| 14:56.45 | *** join/#openmoko jyc (n=chatzill@tunnel.medcost.fr) |
| 14:56.55 | jyc | hello everybody |
| 14:57.58 | xkr47 | sannes, good idea |
| 14:59.54 | buz | this is interesting |
| 15:00.32 | buz | for a change, i'm told to MAKE UP research results |
| 15:00.32 | buz | (no it's not a sponsored study) |
| 15:01.31 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x_ (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:03.09 | sannes | buz: "the results clearly indicate that everyone should put money into bank account #### to better the world and achive world peace .. " |
| 15:18.04 | buz | sannes: i'm studying economics, somehow i doubt THEY would fall for THAT |
| 15:18.54 | mcjyc | does anybody have some news on the public release of the openmoko phone ? |
| 15:19.14 | buz | no |
| 15:20.27 | mcjyc | ok thanks :-) |
| 15:23.13 | yacc | sannes: I can chat from my Nokia 9500 ;) |
| 15:24.00 | yacc | sannes: That's the reason why I have a ctrl-proxy running on a colocated server, and for "legacy" reasons a xchat in a VNC session that does the bridging between irc and jabber. |
| 15:25.33 | Stephmw | running sshd on port 443 is useful too |
| 15:26.27 | yacc | Stephmw: Well, it's necessary for me because there is no sensible irc client for Symbian phones. |
| 15:29.39 | Stephmw | yacc: on my p910 I putty'd into a SCREEN session running irssi... ok, I'm a masochist :) |
| 15:29.58 | Stephmw | yacc: I'd played with qirc as well |
| 15:31.57 | yacc | Stephmw: p910 will almost certainly be an UIQ phone right? UIQ != Series 80 :(( |
| 15:32.44 | koen | symbian, schmymbian |
| 15:33.11 | yacc | Stephmw: putty + irssi => I'm not that masochistic ;) |
| 15:33.49 | yacc | koen: Name me a more open platform with a sensible keyboard? (Not that the Nokia kbd is that good) |
| 15:34.23 | Stephmw | yacc: depending on where in the food chain you are, everything's open ;) </troll> |
| 15:35.49 | koen | yacc: what has software todo with a keyboard? |
| 15:36.52 | yacc | Well, which food chain? |
| 15:36.57 | yacc | koen: I asked for a platform class that provides platform instances with specific features. |
| 15:37.27 | yacc | koen: As I'm not capable of designing/building my own phone, I need something that I can barter for real or virtual money ;) |
| 15:39.15 | Stephmw | yacc: the mobile platform food chain... manufacturer->operator->reseller->user/developer/etc... I mean the platform I work on is wide open to me... but that's because I'm at the manufacturer level |
| 15:41.02 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@unaffiliated/ninher) |
| 15:41.44 | yacc | user |
| 15:42.43 | yacc | Stephmw: self employed developer/admin contractor under the heading of Python/C++/Linux ;) |
| 15:42.57 | yacc | PEBKAT? |
| 15:43.26 | koen | D'oh |
| 15:43.31 | koen | PEBTAC |
| 15:43.43 | koen | Problem Exists Between Touchscreen and Chair |
| 15:44.25 | Stephmw | yacc: believe me, once the SO gets herself a job, I'm seriously thinking of greener pastures |
| 15:44.52 | xkr47 | koen :DD |
| 15:45.44 | Stephmw | koen: new interaction hardware: strokepad and niplstick |
| 15:46.06 | yacc | Stephmw: And technically it does not mean that much. Just because say I work currently on entertainment systems with a big car manufacturer, does not mean that I can include an ssh client into them ;) |
| 15:48.03 | Stephmw | yacc: likewise - I'd be hung and quartered if I dared |
| 15:49.02 | yacc | *g* Guess you are working for a harsh employeer ;) |
| 15:49.36 | yacc | OTOH, as an "external" contractor, most employeers have way less control about my behaviour ;) |
| 15:50.15 | Stephmw | here it's more a case that I can guarantee it wouldn't slip through QA |
| 15:50.25 | yacc | I love it when the local laws basically force them to do be so lenient ;) (Well, if they specify to much into the contract, they may get sued for employee benefits ;) ) |
| 15:50.50 | yacc | Well, it wouldn't slip through QA neither here ;) |
| 15:52.59 | yacc | That's why I want the FIC phone with or without Bluetooth. BT would be nice, but I don't use it that much. (Technically speaking, I don't even know if one can get points in Flensburg for using the phone while driving *g*) |
| 15:53.53 | Stephmw | aye, BT isn't such a big thing for me either |
| 15:54.21 | Stephmw | it's not as if it could chat to my greenphone anyway (their BT driver isn't working yet) |
| 15:54.24 | Stephmw | :) |
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| 16:11.23 | buz | yacc: i think you get points for not using a headset |
| 16:11.38 | buz | (at least in ch, you get nasty fines for that. and deservedly so) |
| 16:14.58 | *** join/#openmoko vlo (n=valentin@adsl-84-226-33-155.adslplus.ch) |
| 16:22.25 | yacc | buz: Well, using a wired headset is way more dangerous than no headset I'd say ;) |
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| 16:27.50 | buz | well if you have manual transmission, it's pretty much impossible to hold a phone while driving |
| 16:28.09 | noidd | I disagree |
| 16:28.10 | buz | and i very much favor manual transmission myself |
| 16:28.26 | timtimred | you cant hold a handset and drive safely with a manual |
| 16:28.30 | buz | maybe not when you're zaphod beeblebrox |
| 16:28.34 | buz | and got like 3 or 4 arms |
| 16:28.41 | timtimred | you cant talk and concentrate properly with hands free either :) |
| 16:28.51 | buz | timtimred: thats true |
| 16:28.59 | buz | but it's legal to talk to other passengers |
| 16:29.05 | buz | so handsfree ought to be legal as well |
| 16:29.18 | noidd | /clear |
| 16:31.10 | mjr | HF is required for mobiles here in Finland by law too. Curiously, (though and I haven't checked this myself) those old-style mobile phones permanently installed in the car are excempt from the requirement. |
| 16:32.10 | buz | not like theres any number of them anyhow ;= |
| 16:32.37 | timtimred | and in the UK for a while now |
| 16:33.30 | mjr | buz, yeah, pretty much extinct |
| 16:33.44 | yacc | buz: What car are you driving? Most diesels have enough dynamic torque that one has to switch gear only seldom. Plus I've got a tiptronic anyway. ;) |
| 16:33.58 | buz | not a diesel |
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| 16:34.30 | buz | technically that yaris ts doesnt need the 1st gear either but it's probably better for the transmission not to always start in the 3rd |
| 16:34.54 | buz | (its not my car anyway) |
| 16:35.01 | yacc | buz: My wife's new car got a manual transmission, but it basically got no "Turbo hole", so it goes uphill quite nicely below 1000rpm ;) |
| 16:35.18 | buz | new diesel are pretty much turbo lag free |
| 16:35.32 | buz | but even with particle filters they still stink |
| 16:35.53 | yacc | buz: yeah. My wife vetoed only two of my propositions (the tiptronic and the stronger engine :( ). |
| 16:36.01 | *** join/#openmoko cephdon (n=cephdon@c-67-169-221-175.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 16:36.16 | buz | oh i got my mother to buy the sport edition ;) |
| 16:36.22 | buz | (which i consider to be no small feat ;) |
| 16:36.44 | buz | no honestly, the basic engine was so lousy even she had to acknowledge it |
| 16:37.04 | yacc | buz: as long as Diesel is so much cheaper to operate, plus has the better engines (yeah, nowadays power and torque are usually way better with Diesels), I see no argument to buy a gasoline car ;) |
| 16:37.26 | buz | diesel is consistently about as much more expensive here as the cars need less of it |
| 16:37.52 | buz | and there are not really many small cars with a decent diesel |
| 16:39.10 | yacc | buz: That's only a question what you define as "small car" ;) |
| 16:39.20 | buz | <3.80m |
| 16:41.00 | yacc | buz: Guess that's not the definition of my wife ;) |
| 16:42.12 | yacc | But I don't think that she meant to buy a small car, it's only the "small car inside the family" ;) |
| 16:44.36 | koen | VW makes great diesel engines |
| 16:45.24 | timtimred | diesel won le mans this year! |
| 16:45.30 | timtimred | erm last year! |
| 16:47.07 | timtimred | or the hippies with their chip fat powered camper vans |
| 16:47.56 | buz | "i'm sorry officer, but the ethanol splashed around when i filled up" |
| 16:49.46 | *** join/#openmoko dagb (n=dagb@97.80-202-99.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:53.00 | mjr | apparently Sean's coming to Finland in late Feb and I've just volunteered to ask around if there'd be interest for a community meetup with him |
| 16:53.49 | mjr | sucks to be me |
| 17:05.15 | *** join/#openmoko esden_ (n=esden@dop137.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 17:15.48 | buz | if i was in finland, i'd come ;) |
| 17:16.24 | mjr | yeah, thanks :] |
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| 19:17.43 | noidd | e |
| 19:18.41 | Stephmw | I completely agree |
| 19:20.17 | MacNorth | d |
| 19:27.04 | Flusher | c |
| 19:28.15 | noidd | sorry guys |
| 19:28.22 | noidd | I'm allowed one typo a year :-P |
| 19:29.43 | noidd | I don't wish to sound impatient but it's January. :-D |
| 19:30.27 | mjr | and will be for 29 days :] |
| 19:45.26 | sannes | should have an offical count down to when people can start whining :) |
| 19:46.36 | timtimred | isnt it a countdown for when people stop whining? :) |
| 19:47.04 | sannes | well, could always stop the count down if it released :) |
| 19:47.47 | koen | nah |
| 19:47.53 | koen | let's countdown to v2 |
| 19:48.14 | sannes | when was that coming again? jan 08 ? :P |
| 19:49.15 | koen | april or something |
| 19:49.46 | sannes | wow, then this will be the shortest time between phone upgrade for me :) |
| 19:57.53 | MacNorth | heh http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/ |
| 19:58.03 | MacNorth | "No messages have been posted to this list yet, so the archives are currently empty." |
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| 20:01.25 | noidd | If its that soon they may just start with v2 |
| 20:01.26 | sannes | hehe, I wonder .. does anyone know if Neo1973 can boot without a sim card? |
| 20:01.39 | noidd | I would assume so sannes |
| 20:02.04 | noidd | it is fundimentally an arm based linux machine with a cellphone attached by a serial port. |
| 20:02.44 | sannes | Is there a bootloader for it so I can choose kernel on boot or what? :P |
| 20:03.19 | koen | yes, uboot |
| 20:04.12 | sannes | nice :) I'm looking so much forward to getting my hands on one of those :) |
| 20:06.45 | koen | altought I suspect you need serial access to select the kernel on boot |
| 20:07.36 | Stephmw | maybe hack uboot to add simple text+input on the lcd |
| 20:07.38 | sannes | do I have to do any modding to get to it or can I use a usb serial cable? |
| 20:07.45 | Stephmw | that'll be for later :) |
| 20:09.47 | sannes | uboot, does that have a homepage ? |
| 20:10.47 | koen | ~google uboot |
| 20:11.32 | sannes | didn't find it on freshmeat .. |
| 20:12.19 | Stephmw | http://u-boot.sourceforge.net/ |
| 20:12.43 | sannes | ah u-boot :) |
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| 20:15.53 | koen | yeah, they changed the spelling |
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| 20:21.07 | sannes | hm, initrd support, maybe I should go all out with an encrypted filesystem :D |
| 20:21.20 | Stephmw | sannes: it's been suggested on the ml :) |
| 20:21.49 | Stephmw | sannes: add a dial-home and a few more things and it becomes very interesting |
| 20:23.18 | sannes | Stephmw: there are so many cool things to do with this thing, what would have been cool is to use the gps as part of the key for the filesystem.. so you have to be at a special location to start the phone :P |
| 20:23.35 | sannes | well that or hack it .. heh |
| 20:23.49 | Stephmw | or only usable in particular areas |
| 20:23.52 | Stephmw | etc, etc |
| 20:24.49 | sannes | Maybe "locate nearest friend in addressbook" :P |
| 20:24.59 | sannes | (probably suggested already .. heh) |
| 20:26.11 | Stephmw | it's been kinda ruled out by operators ;) |
| 20:26.15 | Stephmw | privacy concerns ;-) |
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| 20:26.44 | Stephmw | of course, you'd also need all your friends to _also_ have Neos |
| 20:27.00 | koen | or gps + really trained thumbs |
| 20:38.18 | sannes | heh, was more thinking of nearest known location where you can find people, or bars or whatever.. say, you wonder what is closes.. heh |
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| 20:46.29 | PirateHead | ETA: Jan 2007? Where is it, already? =D |
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| 20:55.22 | xorAxAx | OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.com | http://lists.openmoko.org | ETA: Someday in january 2007 | Direct-Sale World Wide | No Preorders yet |
| 20:55.33 | *** topic/#openmoko by xorAxAx -> OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.com | http://lists.openmoko.org | ETA: Someday in January 2007 | Direct-Sale World Wide | No Preorders yet |
| 20:55.33 | *** topic/#openmoko by ChanServ -> OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.com | http://lists.openmoko.org | ETA: January 2007 | Direct-Sale World Wide | No Preorders yet |
| 20:55.36 | xorAxAx | hmm |
| 20:55.55 | xorAxAx | mickey|sports: maybe you want to add that :) |
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