| 00:48.11 | *** join/#openmoko edwardocallaghan (n=edward@host86-129-149-243.range86-129.btcentralplus.com) |
| 00:48.42 | edwardocallaghan | Hi |
| 00:48.47 | edwardocallaghan | Anyone around? |
| 00:55.00 | myren | just us cows |
| 00:55.02 | myren | mooooo |
| 00:56.18 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081DE92.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:57.50 | edwardocallaghan | Oh moo |
| 01:00.50 | edwardocallaghan | Any news on a date for this phone? |
| 01:03.45 | stefan_schmidt | edwardocallaghan: If yes, the title would have been updated and a mail would haven been sent to the ml... |
| 01:04.13 | edwardocallaghan | Ture |
| 01:04.28 | edwardocallaghan | But I was wondering what word on the street has it ;) |
| 01:19.56 | stefan_schmidt | no whispers on the street |
| 01:22.11 | edwardocallaghan | Well is there any news what so ever? |
| 01:23.15 | stefan_schmidt | no |
| 01:24.06 | Demitar | If you're just looking for loose rumours date and /dev/random might help. :) |
| 01:28.15 | *** join/#openmoko yacc (n=andreas@h1634.serverkompetenz.net) |
| 01:37.45 | edwardocallaghan | Yea well tell my /dev/null that |
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| 06:56.28 | xkr47 | (please do not quote me, I'm just joking =) |
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| 09:50.37 | buz | http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/weblogsinc/engadgetmobile/~3/67314252/ interesting idea, using the SD slot for sdio but giving back microsd in it |
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| 10:04.27 | PBeck | hi |
| 10:04.41 | buz | is sdio strictly a software feature or does it need some hardware support beyond having the sd slot? |
| 10:09.36 | *** join/#openmoko Laibsch (n=Laibsch@dialin110144.justdsl.de) |
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| 10:19.19 | greentux_alt2 | buz: You need a sd controller with sdio support... |
| 10:19.47 | buz | so its a hardware thing? |
| 10:20.11 | koen | you need sdio capable hardware + sdio software stack |
| 10:22.18 | greentux_alt2 | perhaps that helps: http://mmc.drzeus.cx/wiki/Controllers/SDHCI |
| 10:22.53 | greentux_alt2 | nearly every sd controller supports sdio. but there are some different sdio variations. |
| 10:23.06 | greentux_alt2 | serial and parallel and so on |
| 10:23.16 | koen | it also matters how much wires they hookup to the slot |
| 10:23.22 | greentux_alt2 | right |
| 10:23.32 | greentux_alt2 | and how compatible they would be to old mmc |
| 10:23.49 | greentux_alt2 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:23.58 | koen | greentux_alt2: thanks |
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| 12:54.04 | yacc | xkr47: Well, I just wonder where and when one will be able to get one. Seems like a perfect "phone" for me :) |
| 12:54.54 | xkr47 | yeah.. wonder how many are eager to throw out the default gui and make their own :) |
| 12:57.16 | yacc | Well, I'm eager to put Python onto it to ease developing apps ;) |
| 12:58.27 | yacc | My current setup for remotly entering worktimes involves a Nokia 9500 (commercial and fragile IM+) + Jabber + xchat + xchat modules + apps. |
| 12:58.55 | yacc | That's not funny, but I started out with a completly closed Sidekick => the only interactive service on it was AIM :( |
| 12:59.15 | xkr47 | I'd like to have ssh with irc open in a part of the screen by the click of a "button" |
| 12:59.48 | yacc | Well, the Nokia 9500 is better than the sidekick (I've got IM+ and putty on it), but developing software for it is to painful. |
| 13:00.30 | yacc | Does that basically mean GPRS? |
| 13:01.02 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@dqq172.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 13:01.05 | yacc | Not that it's much an issue for me. A phone that can double as Ebook reader and chat client is ok. And for chatting GPRS is fine. |
| 13:06.17 | xkr47 | sidekick ? |
| 13:06.30 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081DE92.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:06.43 | koen | xkr47: the phone paris hilton uses |
| 13:06.56 | xkr47 | heh |
| 13:07.25 | koen | or was that a hiptop? |
| 13:07.31 | koen | I always confuse those 2 |
| 13:13.47 | yacc | koen: they are the same thing. |
| 13:13.50 | yacc | koen: Or mostly. |
| 13:14.00 | yacc | Sidekicks are completly closed. |
| 13:14.19 | yacc | So you need a sidekick branded for your cellular network. |
| 13:14.37 | yacc | E.g. one cannot even findout the APN used, nor change it. |
| 13:15.04 | yacc | E.g. in Germany, Eplus sold these as Hiptops, while T-Mobile sold them as Sidekicks. |
| 13:15.45 | xorAxAx | currently, in germany they sell another kind of those phoneputers |
| 13:16.01 | xorAxAx | no idea what their international trade name is, 1and1 does it |
| 13:16.09 | xorAxAx | and they look even more crappy |
| 13:16.11 | xorAxAx | (and closed) |
| 13:16.52 | yacc | I know, and it's fascinating what one can work around. Browser == crappy. Ok, let's enter data via a AIM bot :) |
| 13:17.11 | xorAxAx | you have one? |
| 13:17.13 | yacc | Actually, I've even come up with a crappy IRC<->AIM bridge. |
| 13:17.18 | yacc | xorAxAx: I had one. |
| 13:17.43 | yacc | Then it fell down on the street, and a car drove over it, which the LCD didn't take that well. |
| 13:17.48 | xorAxAx | hehe |
| 13:18.06 | xorAxAx | but i figure that its not very sensible to get one, right? |
| 13:18.21 | yacc | And T-Mobile Austria just told me, well, you have to keep your Sidekick Data option, but we no devices on sale anymore. Bad luck. |
| 13:19.03 | xorAxAx | hehe |
| 13:19.08 | xorAxAx | ah, you had a sidekick |
| 13:19.13 | xorAxAx | not a crappy 1and1 dev |
| 13:19.38 | yacc | T-Mobile (AT) Sidekick II. And it was quite ok, but really really closed. |
| 13:19.42 | yacc | That sucks. |
| 13:20.00 | xorAxAx | http://pocketweb.1und1.de/xml/order/PwHomepage;jsessionid=658141FB5F5DF26B11C869EF9D1CE7C7.TC171a?__rd=ac1704c3Z2RYHQnXEoNGXV8WFJydfwpL&origin[site]=MX.EUE.DE&origin[page]=index&ucuoId=MX.EUE.DE-20061228141943-ac1704c56QTnuKNTqDwuQIqsjX2iW0kK-S1 |
| 13:24.17 | yacc | xorAxAx: Well, actually I live in Austria, OTOH, I work usually in Germany => I've got 2 mobiles ;) |
| 13:24.32 | yacc | E+ UMTS flat in Germany. ;) |
| 13:24.39 | yacc | 250MB a month in Austria. |
| 13:25.04 | xorAxAx | yacc: yeah |
| 13:25.35 | xorAxAx | yacc: so do you think that the pocketweb is of any use? |
| 13:31.04 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=m@195.227.105.180) |
| 13:31.09 | yacc | nope |
| 13:31.35 | yacc | But the opener the merrier => the 9500 is way nicer than the closed Sidekick was. |
| 13:31.47 | yacc | openmoko sounds still cooler |
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| 14:05.27 | koen | E-GPRS and EDGE should be the same |
| 14:05.39 | koen | AFAIK it's just multichannel GPRS |
| 14:27.24 | greentux | edge includes e-gprs... |
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| 14:35.44 | yacc | koen: I don't think so. |
| 14:36.29 | yacc | koen: The best multislot class of GPRS is 32, which allows active slots at the same time. |
| 14:36.49 | yacc | koen: EGPRS allows for downloads in the 200kbit/s range. |
| 14:39.04 | yacc | koen: 8-20 kbits/s per slot in GPRS, would imply a maximum of 120kbit/s for GPRS (slotclass 32). The more usual are class8 (4 down, 1 up) or class10 (4 down, 2 up). |
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| 14:43.01 | yacc | koen: EGPRS is just GPRS with a number of new codings plus a number of other radio tricks. |
| 14:44.03 | *** part/#openmoko Tybor (n=paolo@195.191.2.207.static.reverse.elitel.it) |
| 14:44.33 | yacc | koen: the important thing is, that surfing via GPRS (using my Nokia 9500 and Opera) is working but painful. With EGPRS surfing is good enough to read non-essential stuff. |
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| 15:49.22 | sannes | January 2007, that isn't very far off at all :) Is that date up to date? |
| 15:52.56 | koen | it's still an estimate |
| 15:54.26 | sannes | :) Think I have looked quite closely, but I havn't really found any place to order it, but I guess that won't be possible before release? |
| 15:55.04 | koen | you should be able to order it after the release on fic.com.tw |
| 15:55.28 | koen | although I haven't seen something looking like a webshop there |
| 15:56.53 | xkr47 | "enter credit card here and click next to continue" |
| 15:57.12 | xkr47 | "thank you for your credit card number! please note that we didn't ask for a delivery address! sucker!!" |
| 15:57.20 | xkr47 | ;) |
| 15:59.54 | koen | I hope it isn't like a standard asian phone |
| 16:00.02 | koen | with a standbytime of 5 minutes |
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| 16:24.36 | yacc | koen: Well, it's a WindowsMobile at heart. |
| 16:25.16 | buz | which is to say lousy battery life |
| 16:25.27 | yacc | koen: The only person in our family that got coined into buying a WinMobile was my 60-yrs old dad, when he went shopping alone, and he DOES complain about running time. |
| 16:25.48 | yacc | buz: The question is how far we can get the powersaving features working. |
| 16:26.21 | buz | the main question is the battery itself |
| 16:26.27 | buz | there are some really shitty batteries out there |
| 16:30.08 | timtimred | batteries can be replaced :D |
| 16:30.30 | buz | theoretically anyway |
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| 17:25.10 | yacc | And if it will be released in January, ... |
| 17:25.25 | yacc | And if the WindowsMobile based on the same hardware is already released, ... |
| 17:25.53 | PBeck | which is the windowsmobile phone? |
| 17:29.37 | yacc | Well, I've heard some rumors that the FIC phone will be sold as a WinMobile in China. Which would give the Linux version benefits of the huge numbers from the start. |
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| 17:44.33 | PBeck | hm |
| 17:46.07 | chihchun | yes, that's what I heard too. |
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| 17:51.28 | yacc | Well, that let's one wonder if these WindowsMobiles are already available? |
| 18:05.32 | PBeck | bye |
| 18:05.34 | *** part/#openmoko PBeck (i=PBeck@unixboard/users/pbeck) |
| 18:06.24 | koen | yacc: I hope not, since the hardware hasn't reached its final rev last I heard |
| 18:07.22 | koen | the WM and linux teams were (are?) having a race to see who supported all the hw first, though |
| 18:07.29 | yacc | koen: That would suggest that the toys won't be available in two week then? |
| 18:07.40 | koen | no idea |
| 18:08.31 | koen | iirc they can produce 30k phones per day in their factories |
| 18:08.56 | yacc | koen: I'd be a nice progression in openness ;) |
| 18:09.43 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:09.48 | yacc | OTOH, it somehow sounds like an Ipaq with a GSM module integrated => which is nice, I used a Linux-based (GPE) Ipaq as an Ebook reader for some time :) |
| 18:10.35 | koen | I bet ebooks will look sweet on the 280DPI display |
| 18:10.58 | yacc | Well, they look ok on the Nokia. |
| 18:11.02 | koen | although I would prefer this: http://www.irextechnologies.com/products/iliad |
| 18:11.48 | buz | part of reading a book is the feel of paper |
| 18:11.52 | yacc | Nope. |
| 18:11.57 | buz | and the fact thats an entirely low tech solution |
| 18:12.05 | yacc | buz part of reading a book is being able to read it anywhere anytime ;) |
| 18:12.08 | buz | my notebook has a 150dpi screen |
| 18:12.17 | buz | i still despise reading long documents on it |
| 18:12.38 | yacc | buz: I've got my Nokia with me basically anywhere. Carrying even a paperback is painful. |
| 18:13.02 | buz | the 770 is much too big to carry |
| 18:13.11 | yacc | Considering that I've got 300+ ebooks (from my webscription.net collection) on my 1GB SDcard, it's a no contest thing :) |
| 18:13.28 | buz | mhh its not like i read more than one book at a time |
| 18:13.28 | yacc | buz: I've got a Nokia 9500 brick. |
| 18:13.36 | koen | buz: and people still want a full keyboard on the phone.... |
| 18:13.39 | buz | i was toying with the nokia 9300 |
| 18:13.51 | buz | but until it gets vibra i aint gonna buy it |
| 18:14.01 | buz | other than that it would be a fine phone |
| 18:14.14 | buz | supposedly the e90 gets 800*352 screen even |
| 18:14.24 | yacc | buz:the point is anywhere, anytime. Paperbacks are even bigger bricks then the 9500 Communicator. |
| 18:14.45 | koen | paperbacks don't need a charger :) |
| 18:14.50 | buz | but they dont run out of batteries |
| 18:15.05 | yacc | koen: Well, there is the frogpad, IF the phone will have Bluetooth. |
| 18:15.32 | koen | the frogpad would be a nice toy with the phone |
| 18:15.49 | yacc | buz: Well, the 9500 has the nice side effect, that when it runs out of power, it shut downs the GSM module first, after that I've got 1-2 hours reading without a mobile before it dies completly ;) |
| 18:17.17 | yacc | buz: Additionally, I haven't the storage space to keep my complete collection at home. It sucks driving 100km to my parents-in-law to pick up some book, ... |
| 18:18.17 | buz | " |
| 18:18.18 | buz | or you can chose to be 'pragmatic' and use a single piece |
| 18:18.18 | buz | of non-free software to have that functionalit |
| 18:18.20 | buz | " |
| 18:18.28 | buz | hypocrite |
| 18:18.39 | buz | so non free gps is ok, but non free wlan is not? |
| 18:18.45 | buz | what kind of twisted logic is that, anyway |
| 18:20.25 | koen | buz: I think the difference is that the gps doesn't require binary kernel modules |
| 18:20.59 | buz | yes |
| 18:21.13 | buz | however, it gets doubly weird when you consider that there are actually open sourced drivers for soem chipsets |
| 18:21.19 | buz | wlan that is |
| 18:21.42 | koen | are they free to choose those chipsets? |
| 18:21.53 | buz | not sure what would stop them? |
| 18:22.24 | buz | i'm quite sure atmel, realtek and ralink would all sell them |
| 18:22.28 | koen | contracts, availability, etc |
| 18:22.39 | so_solid_moo | which chipsets have actual free drivers? |
| 18:22.52 | buz | i'm quite positive about ralink |
| 18:23.04 | buz | might have binary firmware |
| 18:23.20 | so_solid_moo | I remember reading somewhere that there basically aren't |
| 18:23.36 | so_solid_moo | possibly connected with olpc, who did go the non-free route |
| 18:23.45 | buz | so_solid_moo: http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/293/ |
| 18:23.54 | so_solid_moo | and that it mainly hurts when you care about power consumption / management |
| 18:24.00 | buz | olpc is using marvell |
| 18:24.13 | buz | there's source for ralink right on their page |
| 18:24.20 | buz | i actually have a ralink usb stick somewhere, i should just try to get it to work |
| 18:24.27 | buz | (right now it's on a mac |
| 18:24.52 | so_solid_moo | it may be that you can get it to work, but not access all the power management features etc. |
| 18:25.23 | buz | wifi sucking power > no wifi at all |
| 18:26.03 | so_solid_moo | that's possibly debateable |
| 18:26.12 | so_solid_moo | esp. if there is a wifi option better for a winphone |
| 18:26.15 | buz | if you can deactivate wifi altogether |
| 18:26.26 | buz | it doesnt really hurt anyone besides some added cost |
| 18:27.02 | yacc | buz: Well, I personally almost never use WLAN on the Nokia. It's somehow a nonstarter for how I use the phone ;) |
| 18:27.44 | so_solid_moo | I think if it was reasonable to put wifi on it, they would have |
| 18:28.08 | yacc | buz: bluetooth headphones OTOH are a jump in usage quality (I never managed to use wired headphones). |
| 18:28.35 | yacc | buz: And I fear, it will take a long time before I can get a phone-adapter for my Audi or VW? |
| 18:29.15 | yacc | buz: I can get bluetooth connectivity in the my wife's new Passat at least. |
| 18:30.16 | yacc | koen: Don't get greedy. |
| 18:30.20 | buz | i never managed to understand why i would want bluetooth headsets |
| 18:30.25 | buz | yet ANOTHER thing that sucks batteries |
| 18:31.26 | yacc | buz: There are these little things like laws requiring free hand operation in some circumstances (like driving), and wired headsets are just unusable when driving (think seat belt). |
| 18:31.47 | koen | think garotte |
| 18:32.03 | buz | there are plenty of wired speak free sets that dont need headsets |
| 18:33.11 | yacc | buz: Yeah, and wired speak free sets. That means in practice that I better have the same mobile my wife has, or I cannot drive her car? |
| 18:33.48 | yacc | buz: Beside these stupid end pieces for the car cost > ?100 each. |
| 18:34.00 | buz | if you convince my uni to add bluetooth to all wifi access points i'llg ive you that ;) |
| 18:34.22 | yacc | bluetooth is not usuable for that it's to short range. |
| 18:34.51 | buz | there's class 2 BT |
| 18:35.04 | yacc | koen: I usually tend to travel by train, but sometimes one has customer in weird places, where a car is required or at least helpful. |
| 18:35.24 | buz | yacc: amen to that |
| 18:35.27 | koen | For work I use a car |
| 18:35.37 | koen | but that's a hidiously old wreck |
| 18:35.37 | buz | but i hate talking when driving |
| 18:36.02 | buz | that interferes with listening metal at proper volume |
| 18:36.16 | yacc | koen: Well, my car is an old wreck too. But the car of my wife was even older, so she got a new one, I need to kill my old one first ;) |
| 18:37.25 | yacc | buz: I've noticed that the builtin free speaker in my Audi improves with speed. The voice quality at city speeds is just average, but I had at least on conversation with my wife where she did not notice that I was driving >200km/h ;) |
| 18:37.29 | koen | yacc: http://img.2dehands.nl/f/normal/14988939_1-opel-combo-1-7-d.jpg but in a bad state |
| 18:38.22 | yacc | koen: I think I cannot compete. |
| 18:38.45 | koen | we'll get a better car next year |
| 18:39.09 | yacc | koen: I think NNL has even worse taxes on cars than Austria. |
| 18:39.26 | koen | I think so |
| 18:40.12 | koen | my boss drives a phaeton, but he lives in germany :) |
| 18:40.16 | yacc | Luckily my tax adviser strongly urged me to register my car not in Austria ;) |
| 18:40.30 | yacc | koen: Well, my wife's new car got german plates too :) |
| 18:40.32 | buz | theres people who actually buy phaetons? |
| 18:40.50 | yacc | buz: there are no phaetons stations wagons => |
| 18:40.55 | koen | buz: VW is leasing it as a very low rate |
| 18:41.04 | koen | s/as/at/ |
| 18:41.15 | koen | apt: you suck |
| 18:41.18 | apt | no, *you* suck! |
| 18:41.20 | yacc | buz: so these got eliminated, as the car had to be "Golden Retriever compatible" |
| 18:41.40 | buz | lol |
| 18:41.50 | buz | i thought golf bag was gold standard for execs |
| 18:42.26 | yacc | buz: I'm not an exec. I'm a poor IT contractor ;( |
| 18:42.44 | buz | oh right |
| 18:42.56 | buz | somehow i thought the golden retriever had to fit into the phaeton |
| 18:44.00 | koen | it had some weird design specs |
| 18:45.10 | yacc | Yes, but in practice Golden Retriever should travel in the trunk => we tend not to take the Retriever with us when traveling my A6, and it's not THAT small either. So station wagon was a must-have-requirement ;) |
| 18:46.02 | yacc | But back to the phone, when will it be available? *wonder* |
| 18:46.16 | buz | under what name does fic sell winmob phones anyway |
| 18:46.17 | yacc | And will it have pushmail in some way? |
| 18:46.40 | yacc | buz: I've got the impression that they usually send under the brand of the network operator? |
| 18:46.51 | buz | maybe |
| 18:47.06 | buz | thats usually the shittiest phones you could get |
| 18:47.29 | yacc | buz: Well, it seems standard for WinMobiles ;) |
| 18:48.11 | buz | mhh |
| 18:48.17 | buz | for htc maybe |
| 18:48.23 | buz | partly anyway |
| 18:48.33 | buz | palm sells their stuff under their name i think |
| 18:49.11 | yacc | Yes, but palm/handspring are selling nice stuff ;) |
| 18:49.54 | yacc | Although they added a WinMobile to their line I think. |
| 18:49.58 | buz | i wouldnt really call that nice |
| 18:50.04 | buz | palmos is hardly suited for a phone |
| 18:50.12 | buz | and the winmob phones are hardly a match for htc |
| 18:50.33 | buz | essentially, palm is still selling the very first treo |
| 18:51.40 | yacc | Well, they are acceptable phones and Palms in one. Well, my last one was the Treo270, and that's some time back, ... |
| 19:02.39 | sannes | Will neo 1973 be available all over the world or just the us and asia (saw sales@ e-mail addresses for those two only)? |
| 19:08.34 | koen | all over the world |
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| 19:25.32 | yacc | Well, will it be legal to operate all-over-the-world? *wonder* |
| 19:25.45 | buz | should be |
| 19:25.57 | buz | ofcourse the fcc might take a weird stance |
| 19:26.05 | buz | but i dont care for the fcc ver ymuch |
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| 20:24.47 | noidd | have you seen/clear |
| 20:24.48 | noidd | mt ;_) |
| 20:34.38 | yacc | buz: Well, I was thinking more along the lines of needed certifications for Europe ;) |
| 20:35.22 | buz | afaik, the gsm module itself is precertified |
| 20:35.31 | buz | and since it is mostly autonomous it should work |
| 20:35.44 | buz | without recertification i mean |
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