| 00:30.38 | mickeyl | g'night |
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| 01:37.17 | djlosch | anyone at keys? |
| 01:40.05 | djlosch | looking for docs on finding out how to sync (or at least access) linux based cellphones |
| 01:42.12 | robtaylor | djlosch: in what sense? |
| 01:42.58 | robtaylor | as in syncing addressbook, celender etc? providing a service on a device or accessing? |
| 01:47.47 | djlosch | accessing the system memory |
| 01:48.18 | djlosch | eventually i'd get to syncing address/calender etc with evolution |
| 01:48.31 | djlosch | but for the time, i want to be able to access the system memory |
| 01:48.53 | djlosch | i can mount the microsd card in it |
| 01:49.35 | djlosch | apparently not many people have the phone, so i cant find any docs around |
| 01:50.23 | djlosch | (motorola a1200) |
| 01:53.25 | djlosch | thing is that i don't exactly know where to start |
| 02:31.04 | robtaylor | djlosch: you shouldask on openexz, there'ssome guys there with a1200 |
| 02:31.44 | djlosch | thanks |
| 02:31.53 | djlosch | im lookin at the motorola docs and they're pretty lame |
| 02:32.31 | djlosch | #openexz ? |
| 02:32.35 | djlosch | on freenode? |
| 02:33.29 | djlosch | had to sign up as a dev on motorola to get anything decent, and even the dev docs are pretty weak |
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| 03:21.46 | robtaylor | djlosch: yeah on freenode |
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| 03:40.47 | xxnull | where ca i download neo1973 to wok whit him |
| 03:40.48 | xxnull | ? |
| 03:41.59 | xxnull | where can i download neo1973 to work whit him? |
| 03:42.18 | xxnull | somebody can tell me something ? |
| 03:44.37 | xxnull | is hard to get assistance? |
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| 07:23.28 | CM | Hehe.. xxnull was a weird one |
| 07:32.42 | CM | rox: Flash FS article: http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9615245551.html |
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| 09:18.43 | aloril | umm.. this has Linux so it of course multitasks? For example once you have model that has WiFi support one could talk and browse net and take notes all at same time (small screen, so only one of these at time in screen, but clipboard should work) (just verifying ;-) |
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| 09:34.36 | hrw|work | yes |
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| 09:46.13 | aloril | great, combine it with wireless keyboard (Nokia SU-8W) == small laptop |
| 09:47.03 | koen | finally! |
| 09:47.09 | koen | someone who has seen the light |
| 09:50.46 | aloril | one application with camera (if some future model has it): at shop point at product, press 'button' -> take image, ocr, google for product |
| 09:52.48 | koen | ocr? try coding a barcode reader :) |
| 09:52.59 | koen | Like 'Delicious LIbrary' has |
| 09:55.56 | aloril | koen: that indeed sounds good |
| 10:01.14 | aloril | one application that I'm sure I'm going to make: Go game using touch screen for placing stones, maybe even most of this idea: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Go_Teaching_Program |
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| 11:45.49 | mickeyl | morning |
| 11:46.16 | LaF0rge | hi mickey |
| 11:47.05 | koen | hey LaF0rge & mickeyl |
| 11:47.19 | mickeyl | 13 days until 23c3 |
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| 11:48.15 | mickeyl | yo lardman |
| 11:48.20 | mickeyl | how's it going? |
| 11:49.59 | koen | mickeyl: 12 days till another event ;) |
| 11:50.15 | mickeyl | how dare you remind me of getting older :/ |
| 11:50.33 | hrw|work | koen: 2 weeks to another |
| 11:50.38 | koen | yep |
| 11:50.48 | koen | how dare you remind me of getting older ;) |
| 11:51.00 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 11:51.06 | mickeyl | we're in the same boat |
| 11:51.59 | mickeyl | gosh, i'm getting 35 |
| 11:52.01 | mickeyl | can't believe it |
| 11:52.06 | mickeyl | where's the years? |
| 11:52.29 | hrw|work | mickeyl: you lost them toying with pdas |
| 11:52.35 | mickeyl | hehe. |
| 11:52.47 | mickeyl | "lost" 8 years for study |
| 11:52.50 | mickeyl | then 5 for ph.d |
| 11:54.52 | stefan_schmidt | hi all |
| 11:54.59 | koen | hey stefan_schmidt |
| 11:57.08 | stefan_schmidt | koen, mickeyl: You have both birthday at the same day? |
| 11:57.20 | koen | 2 days apart |
| 11:57.36 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 11:58.10 | mickeyl | I'm on the 26th of Dec, Koen on the 28th |
| 11:58.53 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Ah, will you be already in BErlin at 26th? |
| 11:59.06 | mickeyl | no, plane goes @ 07:00 on 27th |
| 11:59.15 | mickeyl | i'll be right on time for the key note |
| 11:59.25 | stefan_schmidt | ok |
| 11:59.40 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: we should exchange mobile phone numbers to meet |
| 11:59.47 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: I'm mailing you mine in a minute |
| 11:59.48 | stefan_schmidt | Will your wife come with you? |
| 11:59.51 | hrw|work | 26 Dec I will celebrate oldnicknameday |
| 11:59.52 | mickeyl | yeah |
| 12:00.30 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: OK, I'll reply with mine. |
| 12:01.38 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: I need to check the schedule for my spare time at 23C3, but what do you think about a lunch/dinner/meeting? |
| 12:02.13 | mickeyl | sounds good to me |
| 12:02.19 | mickeyl | we need to drag LaF0rge with us |
| 12:02.26 | mickeyl | although he's probably very busy |
| 12:02.28 | mickeyl | (as always ;) |
| 12:03.27 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: We should just take Sarah and he will follow us. :) |
| 12:03.39 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: good plan :D |
| 12:03.50 | mickeyl | can't wait to meet her |
| 12:04.04 | mickeyl | although we have a problem if we talk too much geek |
| 12:04.59 | hrw|work | mickeyl: ;D |
| 12:05.22 | koen | mickeyl: http://blogs.gnome.org/view/bolsh/2006/12/11/0 , second bullet point |
| 12:05.54 | LaF0rge | mickeyl: i think 2nd/3rd/last day is fine |
| 12:05.57 | LaF0rge | sarah will be there anyway. |
| 12:06.26 | mickeyl | LaF0rge: ok, cool! |
| 12:06.42 | mickeyl | koen: hehe, indeed |
| 12:07.01 | koen | cool |
| 12:07.08 | koen | birmingham, right? |
| 12:07.11 | mickeyl | right |
| 12:07.51 | stefan_schmidt | LaF0rge, mickeyl: 2nd/3rd/last day is fine with me. |
| 12:08.21 | LaF0rge | well, I'm more likely to be busy on the first day (http://openbeacon.org/ at 23C3) |
| 12:08.22 | mickeyl | very good. then we can make an OpenMoko/OpenEZX meeting |
| 12:08.38 | mickeyl | and I like to introduce you both to one of the OE masterminds# |
| 12:08.47 | mickeyl | Holger 'Zecke' Freyther |
| 12:08.55 | stefan_schmidt | yeah |
| 12:08.57 | hrw|work | mickeyl: get OE brainwasher |
| 12:09.09 | mickeyl | no need to :) |
| 12:09.50 | LaF0rge | http://svn.gnumonks.org/trunk/presentation/2006/oe_simputer-foss.in-2006/oe_simputer.mgp |
| 12:10.04 | hrw|work | .mgp is? |
| 12:10.11 | LaF0rge | hrw: magicpoint. |
| 12:10.13 | stefan_schmidt | hrw|work: magicpoint |
| 12:10.29 | LaF0rge | that was just meant as explanation that I don't need an OE brainwash |
| 12:10.38 | hrw|work | something under linux opens it? |
| 12:10.40 | koen | LaF0rge: there was someone in the #oe wanting to work on the amida for OE |
| 12:10.43 | koen | ~seen anush |
| 12:11.09 | apt | i haven't seen 'anush', koen |
| 12:11.09 | LaF0rge | hrw: magicpoint ;) |
| 12:11.09 | stefan_schmidt | But I need one. :) (Still using ezx-crosstoll only) |
| 12:11.09 | hrw|work | ah. its structured text |
| 12:11.09 | stefan_schmidt | s/oll/ool/ |
| 12:11.10 | LaF0rge | koen: yes, i'm still working out missing pieces in the source code with picopeta. |
| 12:11.18 | LaF0rge | koen: they might even pay me to create bitbake rules |
| 12:11.48 | koen | s/rules/recipes/g :) |
| 12:12.35 | LaF0rge | http://svn.gnumonks.org/trunk/presentation/2006/oe_simputer-foss.in-2006/oe_simputer.mgp |
| 12:12.45 | koen | "Since 07/2006, the first commercial user" |
| 12:13.36 | LaF0rge | I was pushed to put that talk together last minute by the organizers. no time to go through any review... |
| 12:13.38 | koen | AMD, 4g systems, 10east, siemens and many more used it commercially before |
| 12:13.52 | LaF0rge | I meant a different kind of usage |
| 12:14.03 | LaF0rge | not just 'using' but actually basing a product and publicizing the tree? |
| 12:14.47 | koen | amd and 4g have commit access and push to the main tree |
| 12:15.05 | koen | the 10east stuff went through me |
| 12:17.01 | buz | the simputer actually exists? |
| 12:17.05 | buz | i thought that was pure vaporware |
| 12:17.10 | koen | want me to commit http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tmp/amida.conf ? |
| 12:17.30 | mickeyl | ah that reminds me |
| 12:17.40 | mickeyl | i wanted to do a more lenghty announcement to OE/Opie/OpenZaurus mailing lists |
| 12:18.00 | mickeyl | about the relevance of Alchemy going OSS |
| 12:18.05 | mickeyl | will do that later this week |
| 12:18.11 | mickeyl | ouch, it's thursday already |
| 12:18.13 | hrw|work | LaF0rge: nice tool that magicpoint.. |
| 12:18.28 | koen | mickeyl: alchemy as in cpus? |
| 12:18.32 | mickeyl | no |
| 12:18.41 | mickeyl | OpenAlchemy is the app framework |
| 12:18.44 | mickeyl | IIRC |
| 12:19.00 | mickeyl | openalchemy.org |
| 12:19.29 | LaF0rge | hrw: it's actually quite ugly and limited, but lightweight and lean. |
| 12:19.36 | mickeyl | and _fast_ |
| 12:19.39 | LaF0rge | hrw: if it took something like xml input, I would be more than happy |
| 12:19.41 | mickeyl | blows both Opie and GPE away IMO |
| 12:19.45 | koen | mickeyl: alchemy are also the cpus used in the FIC mediaplayers |
| 12:19.52 | mickeyl | koen oh. heh |
| 12:20.32 | LaF0rge | mickey: delay that posting until the source is known to build. |
| 12:20.43 | mickeyl | LaF0rge: they're still cleaning up? |
| 12:20.47 | mickeyl | LaF0rge: any rough ETA? |
| 12:20.58 | LaF0rge | mickey: at the moment somebody at picopeta is supposed to re-check that. ETA was one week ago :( |
| 12:21.09 | LaF0rge | mickey: somebody has messed up when releasing the code that's currently there |
| 12:21.23 | mickeyl | bummer. ok, just ping me when it's there. i'll prepare something in the meantime |
| 12:21.42 | koen | mickeyl: that's why angstrom is going to make 'hybrid' images instead of 'pure' images |
| 12:21.51 | LaF0rge | mickeyl: see http://openalchemy.org/pipermail/openalchemy-general/2006-December/000001.html |
| 12:22.05 | mickeyl | d'oh |
| 12:22.09 | mickeyl | i see |
| 12:24.00 | koen | unversioned tarballs |
| 12:24.04 | lardman | hi mickeyl, sorry for the tardy reply, not bad, you? |
| 12:24.56 | mickeyl | lardman: pretty well, thanks |
| 12:25.24 | mickeyl | hrw|work: thanks for pointing TriSoft to me. I wonder why they didn't ask me in the first place... guess they don't visit my blog :D |
| 12:25.24 | lardman | mickeyl: You finished your PhD? |
| 12:25.48 | mickeyl | lardman: pending the public defense which is scheduled for spring 2007 |
| 12:25.55 | mickeyl | but i don't expect any major problems :) |
| 12:25.59 | mickeyl | s/major// |
| 12:26.11 | lardman | mickeyl: Cool, good luck. I graduated day before yesterday |
| 12:26.19 | mickeyl | lardman: congrats! |
| 12:26.19 | koen | ~seen anushs |
| 12:26.28 | apt | koen: i haven't seen 'anushs' |
| 12:26.28 | hrw|work | mickeyl: no problem |
| 12:26.28 | mickeyl | lardman: what now? |
| 12:26.28 | koen | lardman: congrats |
| 12:26.49 | lardman | mickeyl: Not sure, working as research officer at uni atm, should probably get a 'real' job ;) |
| 12:26.57 | lardman | koen: thanks |
| 12:31.06 | buz | at least another 10 months until graduation |
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| 14:52.30 | hrw|work | ~seen [g2] |
| 14:52.53 | apt | [g2] <n=g2@nslu2-linux/g2> was last seen on IRC in channel #nslu2-linux, 1d 11h 28m 40s ago, saying: 'runs linux source and build tools are out'. |
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| 15:09.32 | *** topic/#openmoko is OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.com | http://lists.openmoko.org | ETA: January 2007 |
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| 16:04.07 | edwardocallaghan | Hi |
| 16:04.41 | edwardocallaghan | I would just like to remind everyone never to order from scan.co.uk |
| 16:05.12 | mickeyl | what happend to ya? |
| 16:08.20 | *** join/#openmoko yure (n=yure@dhcp-212-235-229-194.sd.uni-lj.si) |
| 16:09.00 | edwardocallaghan | My last order last year, they sent a 1u cooler for a Xeon then my P4 |
| 16:09.35 | edwardocallaghan | Told them, said they where going to send the part never did... Stop answer emails they did not like the look of |
| 16:09.51 | edwardocallaghan | This order they send me a broken hard disk |
| 16:10.45 | edwardocallaghan | If they don't give me a full refund tomorrow I am going to my bank and tell them it's a forgulent payment |
| 16:14.08 | edwardocallaghan | OK getting a RMA |
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| 18:26.16 | noidd | So, did I miss any hardware announcements? :-) |
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| 18:30.45 | robtaylor | mickey|tv: hey, it#ll be good to see you at guadec :) do you like curries? ;) |
| 18:37.01 | dsp | hello all -- what is the story on getting the openmoko hw for those interested in getting "early access" |
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| 18:42.20 | noidd | hmm, curry |
| 18:42.33 | noidd | the one thing that is impossible to get in North Carolina |
| 18:42.38 | noidd | or at least a decient one. |
| 18:44.50 | robtaylor | noidd: coming to guadec? :) |
| 18:45.06 | noidd | where is it? |
| 18:45.09 | noidd | and when |
| 18:45.17 | robtaylor | birmingham, uk, june |
| 18:45.46 | robtaylor | best curries in the world in birmingham :) |
| 18:45.54 | noidd | Honestly, I'm not a great fan of Gnome per se |
| 18:45.57 | noidd | I love Gtk |
| 18:46.30 | noidd | I just don't like the whole "intuative is defined as emulating Windows" train of thought. |
| 18:53.38 | robtaylor | noidd: mmm, thats really not what gnome does |
| 18:53.55 | robtaylor | noidd: or at least, its not what we're trying to do |
| 18:54.16 | myren_ | the interface still feels like another desktop emulation |
| 18:54.30 | myren_ | i dont see how gnome can claim any innovation in the general desktop metaphor |
| 18:54.53 | myren_ | it looks geared towards accomplishing all the same tasks as windows |
| 18:54.59 | myren_ | whether or not it intends to be iwndows |
| 18:55.23 | robtaylor | i'd agree, thats where we are right now (and was a necessary place to get to) |
| 18:55.27 | noidd | thats how it feels to me as a UNIX user. |
| 18:55.43 | noidd | I guess I like small, fast systems. |
| 18:55.51 | noidd | GNOME doesn't fit into that mold for me right now. |
| 18:55.52 | robtaylor | well, i'd say its more usable than windows, but that may be cos i use it |
| 18:56.07 | noidd | although I do find the goal of shared widget libraries a great idea. |
| 18:56.11 | robtaylor | well, thats one of teh main areas everyone's been working in |
| 18:56.22 | noidd | almost as an extension to Gtk |
| 18:56.30 | noidd | I'm cool with that |
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| 18:56.47 | noidd | but the whole having files on your "Desktop" and graphical file managers get in my way |
| 18:56.56 | robtaylor | yeah, i don't use them either =) |
| 18:56.58 | noidd | again, personally. |
| 18:57.23 | robtaylor | but gnome's really more about the infrastructure nowadays |
| 18:57.25 | noidd | If there is going to be an openmoko BoF there I will fly to the UK for it. |
| 18:57.36 | noidd | but otherwise honestly, I have no interest. |
| 18:57.50 | robtaylor | mickey|tv: know id Sean's coming as well? :) |
| 18:58.06 | robtaylor | noidd: well openmoko is mostly gnome |
| 18:58.13 | noidd | its at moments like this I hate Xen |
| 18:58.17 | noidd | damn lack of documentation. |
| 18:58.28 | myren_ | i think there's a lot of places interface could diverge from desktop |
| 18:58.32 | myren_ | and be more UNIX like |
| 18:58.42 | myren_ | gobject is a good example, if sorely underutilized |
| 18:59.04 | myren_ | the concept of a windowed application is inherently flawed from my pov. |
| 18:59.06 | noidd | You know what - I've converted the WINDOWS SERVER team here at work to using Linux on the desktop. |
| 18:59.12 | noidd | and they use xorg with enlightenment |
| 18:59.22 | noidd | and rdeskto |
| 18:59.36 | myren_ | an application is interactive only with the user, not other programs |
| 18:59.36 | noidd | they use keybindings to fly from rdesktop to rdesktop session |
| 18:59.43 | myren_ | all interactions need to be pre-scripted |
| 18:59.51 | robtaylor | e17? |
| 18:59.57 | noidd | e16 |
| 19:00.02 | robtaylor | double ick |
| 19:00.02 | myren_ | wow. |
| 19:00.11 | robtaylor | thats the most buggy window manager i've ever used |
| 19:00.20 | noidd | and feel free to ick, it's increased their productivity by 200% compared to a windows desktop. |
| 19:00.29 | noidd | its BugFree[tm] here. |
| 19:00.43 | robtaylor | well, thats as maybe, but its nothing you can't do with anyother setup |
| 19:00.56 | noidd | thats true. |
| 19:01.03 | robtaylor | esp if you have devilspie |
| 19:01.21 | noidd | but since they use their Linux desktop as a way to display 10-20 rdesktop sessions at a time |
| 19:01.27 | noidd | there is no need for anything more complex. |
| 19:01.36 | noidd | devilspie? |
| 19:02.19 | robtaylor | http://www.burtonini.com/blog/computers/devilspie |
| 19:05.41 | robtaylor | noidd: anyway guadec is half about planning the future. e.g. One thing me or travis reitter might be talking on there (if we've made enough progress) will be High5, which is a design to allow to orgainse workflow and communiation based on tasks and who you do things with |
| 19:06.04 | robtaylor | which i think's pretty cutting edge and not following windows ;) |
| 19:06.54 | robtaylor | being able to look at your history based on either too, which'd be pretty funky |
| 19:07.11 | koen | robtaylor: you're still involved with ipcf/telepathy? |
| 19:07.41 | robtaylor | koen: sure.. to a lesser degree of course now, but high5'll be using it and galago |
| 19:08.24 | koen | in a real language, not p***** |
| 19:08.54 | robtaylor | koen: heh, hmm, well i think Zdra added audio conferenceing to gossip-telepathy a couple of days ago |
| 19:09.06 | koen | s |
| 19:09.37 | robtaylor | shouldn't be much work to add on teh video confernecing, though i think there's still some gst bugs in the video that cause it to be jerky at the moment |
| 19:09.48 | myren_ | uh, comparing devilspie to e16 is not at all fair |
| 19:09.59 | robtaylor | myren_: umm, don't think i was |
| 19:10.01 | myren_ | e16 is massively ocnfigurable, absolutely every bit of it |
| 19:10.12 | myren_ | you cant frame windows in devilspie |
| 19:10.34 | myren_ | devilspie just lets you twiddle some ICCCM bits |
| 19:12.59 | koen | robtaylor: can it be done with gst-launch on a cmdline as well? |
| 19:27.46 | robtaylor | koen: umm, for simple, on the same network stuff, aye |
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| 19:41.17 | buz | skype does video conferences |
| 19:41.22 | buz | but thats about as closed as it comes |
| 19:41.59 | mjr | yea; ekiga does std. sip and h323 video stuff, I believe there are others as well |
| 19:43.19 | robtaylor | mjr: telapathy-gabble has very goog Jingle support |
| 19:43.43 | mjr | well, yeah, Jingle is okay too |
| 19:44.05 | robtaylor | (its very good cos the guy heading up the support was simulatously fixing up the Jingle spec as problems were found) |
| 19:44.30 | robtaylor | h323 is pretty foul |
| 19:44.54 | mjr | yes well, I'm not saying it's a dream protocol to implement, no :] |
| 19:45.06 | robtaylor | Jingle at least implemnts ICE of a kind |
| 19:45.18 | robtaylor | ice for sip is still a way off atm |
| 19:45.45 | robtaylor | and, depressingly, there's no open implementations atm |
| 19:48.14 | koen | robtaylor: ah, that's good to hear |
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| 20:04.15 | buz | what video codec does h323 use |
| 20:05.10 | mjr | h263 traditionally, I suppose h264 is nowadays an option |
| 20:05.43 | hrw | mjr: if hardware is capable to decode it... |
| 20:14.31 | robtaylor | buz: it's signalling proto, iirc, the standard doesnt specify codecs as such |
| 20:15.01 | robtaylor | s/, iirc,/. iirc,/ |
| 20:15.19 | robtaylor | thanks apt, you're very helpful..>< |
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| 20:48.15 | stefan_schmidt | re |
| 20:50.29 | koen | stefan_schmidt: wb |
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| 22:40.22 | dsp | does coreteam@openmoko.org work? |
| 22:40.33 | dsp | getting bounces |
| 22:41.50 | stefan_schmidt | dsp: hmm, it should. What does the bounces tell you? |
| 22:42.31 | duffolonious | dsp: are you not registered for the mailing list? |
| 22:50.13 | dsp | stefan_schmidt: |
| 22:50.24 | dsp | I am not registered for the coredev list |
| 22:50.35 | dsp | I was inquiring on the coredev list per the website instructions |
| 22:50.57 | dsp | got a message back which said: "This is a Delivery Status Notification (DSN). |
| 22:50.57 | dsp | After several attempts, |
| 22:50.57 | dsp | I still haven't been able to deliver your message t" |
| 22:51.46 | stefan_schmidt | dsp: hmm, it should accept incoming messages. |
| 22:52.05 | stefan_schmidt | dsp: Let me try |
| 22:52.54 | stefan_schmidt | dsp: It is something private? If not the community list could be also a good place. |
| 22:53.09 | stefan_schmidt | dsp: coreteam@openmoko.org you mean, right? |
| 22:56.16 | stefan_schmidt | dsp: I have sent a test mail |
| 22:59.32 | dsp | thanks stefan... |
| 22:59.45 | dsp | and you were correct, I was emailing to coreteam@openmoko.org |
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