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| 11:45.49 | solars | Hi, does anyone know if there are any plans about umts/wlan? |
| 11:50.38 | hrw|work | not in v1 |
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| 12:04.19 | solars | okay thx |
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| 12:40.52 | mickeyl | morning |
| 12:44.07 | CM | afternoon :) |
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| 14:28.22 | LaF0rge | hi all |
| 14:28.51 | koen | hey LaF0rge |
| 14:29.24 | LaF0rge | hi koen |
| 14:30.22 | hrw|work | hi LaF0rge |
| 14:30.45 | Laibsch | Software shipped with OpenMoko will run gtk not qt and the window manager will be gtk-based as far as I understand. |
| 14:30.57 | koen | Laibsch: almost |
| 14:31.08 | koen | Laibsch: matchbox isn't gtk based |
| 14:31.14 | Laibsch | I run both GPE and Opie on my Zaurus. Will that be possible to do on the OpenMoko as well? |
| 14:31.15 | koen | matchbox I that is |
| 14:31.27 | koen | matchbox II will probably be gtk based |
| 14:32.29 | Laibsch | We don't have Japanese input for matchbox/GPE yet. But there are some for Opie. I was wondering if I could use those until something better comes along by running two window managers. |
| 14:33.35 | hrw|work | Laibsch: neo phone is not supported by opie |
| 14:34.14 | koen | Laibsch: the phone is made by the people doing the C in CJKV |
| 14:34.44 | Laibsch | hrw|work: bummer. Just out of curiosity, is it likely to work nonetheless? What will be missing? |
| 14:35.22 | hrw|work | Laibsch: if/when someone do some work on it then it will be supported (~one day probably). but no phone apps |
| 14:35.23 | Laibsch | koen: That is at least some hope. So there should be good hope that something for Chinese input will be on there when FIC brings the patches into OE, right? |
| 14:35.48 | xorAxAx | koen: actually, the TC |
| 14:35.57 | Laibsch | hrw|work: no phone apps is no big deal if I can have both window managers at the same time. |
| 14:36.09 | xorAxAx | koen: as in traditional chinese |
| 14:36.20 | koen | Laibsch: opie isn't a window manager |
| 14:36.44 | Laibsch | koen: I don't care about words as you know. No use fighting over something like this. |
| 14:36.59 | koen | Laibsch: and matchbox stroke can map arbitrary strokes to UTF8 |
| 14:37.09 | Laibsch | koen: opie lets me run a Japanese input method which is all I care for ATM. |
| 14:37.33 | xorAxAx | koen: many japanese users dislike unicode |
| 14:37.41 | xorAxAx | because of the han unification |
| 14:37.48 | Laibsch | koen: There is more to it than just that. Or do you want to map 80.000 or even 250.000+ characters (at last count)? |
| 14:38.08 | koen | xorAxAx: I doubt they'll care |
| 14:38.24 | xorAxAx | koen: many .jp linux distros arent on utf-8 yet, i guess they do |
| 14:38.49 | koen | xorAxAx: they draw a few strokes and the right char/whatchamacallit appears on screen |
| 14:39.32 | koen | xorAxAx: .jp is the poster-boy for NIH |
| 14:40.20 | Laibsch | koen: On the other hand, many ppl called and still call them copy-cats! |
| 14:40.35 | Laibsch | And they are good at improving other ppl's ideas |
| 14:40.42 | Laibsch | koen: I guess the world is not so easy. |
| 14:40.44 | xorAxAx | koen: that sounds a bit racistic |
| 14:41.26 | koen | xorAxAx: since when are japanese a seperate race? |
| 14:41.41 | Laibsch | koen: You are playing on words again. |
| 14:42.10 | koen | Laibsch: http://xkcd.com/c169.html |
| 14:43.41 | xorAxAx | koen: i dont see any NIH wrt to charsets, unicode was last |
| 14:45.43 | robtaylor | koen: its more like, well, say utf-8 didn't map ascii 1-1. its uptake in latinate languages would have been limited |
| 14:46.23 | robtaylor | koen: so they have all this data which is in a charset that doesn't map to unicode |
| 14:46.33 | robtaylor | so its not an obvious win |
| 14:47.26 | koen | robtaylor: any chance can be avoided that way |
| 14:47.37 | robtaylor | ? |
| 14:48.06 | koen | "it requires effort" |
| 14:48.06 | koen | "not an obvious win" |
| 14:48.19 | robtaylor | i'm saying its a social transition issue |
| 14:48.23 | robtaylor | they are hard |
| 14:48.44 | koen | inert |
| 14:49.00 | hrw|work | robtaylor: utf8 does not map to anything which is not US-ASCII |
| 14:49.01 | koen | I've been around engineers for too long |
| 14:49.04 | robtaylor | e.g. everyone in finland *still* uses ISO-8859-1 when chatting on IRC |
| 14:49.16 | hrw|work | robtaylor: ircnet is iso1 |
| 14:50.01 | robtaylor | hrw|work: yes |
| 14:51.00 | CM | UTF-8 is still a pain to use since so many apps don't support it fully |
| 14:51.19 | CM | especially when you use non-standard chars, like å or so |
| 14:51.51 | mickeyl | *phew* |
| 14:52.02 | mickeyl | any one of you ever dived into Xlib programming? |
| 14:52.06 | mickeyl | that's _nasty_ stuff |
| 14:52.11 | koen | mickeyl: *gasp* |
| 14:52.16 | koen | mickeyl: use xcb |
| 14:52.19 | mickeyl | and i thought gtk was lowlevel |
| 14:52.20 | mickeyl | *sigh* |
| 14:52.36 | mickeyl | i have to query some XpropertyEvents and look at Xatoms |
| 14:52.39 | mickeyl | that alone is horrible :D |
| 14:52.47 | robtaylor | mickeyl: what's that for? |
| 14:53.11 | koen | mickeyl: worse as INT13? |
| 14:53.12 | mickeyl | robtaylor: OpenMoko. I need to keep track of active windows and the active app and stuff |
| 14:53.22 | mickeyl | koen: heh. same league, but more parameters in the API |
| 14:53.53 | robtaylor | mickeyl: why not just query matchbox? |
| 14:54.12 | robtaylor | or even, do it in matchbox? :) |
| 14:54.47 | mickeyl | it's talking with matchbox |
| 14:55.01 | mickeyl | which goes over those nasty Xatoms |
| 14:55.10 | mickeyl | _NET_FOO_BAR |
| 14:55.13 | mickeyl | _MB_FOO_BAR |
| 14:55.16 | mickeyl | and the like |
| 14:55.28 | robtaylor | ahh |
| 14:55.39 | koen | mickeyl: could libwnck help with that? |
| 14:55.52 | robtaylor | *best names library ever* |
| 14:56.23 | Laibsch | mickeyl: Do you know if openmoko will ship with a Chinese input method? |
| 14:56.23 | koen | "ibwnck (pronounced "libwink") is used to implement pagers, tasklists, and other such things. It allows applications to monitor information about open windows, workspaces, their names/icons, and so forth." |
| 14:56.37 | mickeyl | koen: probably not directly, however that's really good stuff. i will use the source |
| 14:56.46 | mickeyl | Laibsch: most likely not at shipping time. |
| 14:57.01 | robtaylor | koen: that's not how i pronounce it ;) |
| 14:57.09 | Laibsch | mickeyl: Aha. Anybody working on it at all? |
| 14:57.10 | mickeyl | Laibsch: but foreign input methods are very important for OpenMoko |
| 14:57.23 | Laibsch | mickeyl: For me too ;-) |
| 14:57.51 | mickeyl | Laibsch: I think so, but I'm not 100% sure. Shanghai Labs are doing a lot of stuff, but communication is not their strength :)) |
| 14:57.53 | Laibsch | mickeyl: I would need to look into stuff that runs under matchbox and requires no keyboard, right? |
| 14:57.59 | robtaylor | mickeyl: can't you use gdk_property_get? |
| 14:57.59 | mickeyl | Laibsch: right |
| 14:58.07 | Laibsch | OK |
| 14:58.23 | mickeyl | robtaylor: that's not event based. I need to get informed about changes. |
| 14:58.36 | mickeyl | I'll be getting there, it's just a bit nasty |
| 14:59.21 | robtaylor | mickeyl: oh, yeah, of course :/ |
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| 16:56.37 | koen | ok |
| 16:56.49 | koen | my annoyance threshold has been reached |
| 16:57.27 | koen | anyone mentioning that and FPGA is 'needed' to do <foo> will get an earfull |
| 16:57.37 | koen | s/and/an/ |
| 16:58.18 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 16:59.12 | koen | "if we have an fpga we could dim the backlight" |
| 16:59.23 | koen | "if we have an fpga we could make phone calls" |
| 16:59.36 | koen | "I need an fpga to tie my shoelaces" |
| 16:59.50 | so_solid_moo | if we had an fpga, it could be programmed on the fly to power the usb port. |
| 16:59.53 | so_solid_moo | that would be useful. |
| 17:00.17 | hrw|work | and to decode HDTV fetched from DVB-T in realtime |
| 17:00.24 | so_solid_moo | yes! |
| 17:00.27 | hrw|work | and it will accelerate display |
| 17:00.58 | koen | so_solid_moo: only my sarcasm alarm is going off |
| 17:01.08 | so_solid_moo | shame :) |
| 17:01.10 | hrw|work | and the most important thing - fpga will give us BT 3.0 and wifi 802.11xyz |
| 17:01.17 | so_solid_moo | I shall troll more professionally in future |
| 17:01.41 | robtaylor | koen: if we had an fpga, we could progam another arm core on it and TAKE OVER THE WORLD |
| 17:02.04 | koen | s/TAKE OVER THE WORLD/get sued by ARM ltd/ |
| 17:02.11 | robtaylor | oh, yeah, that too |
| 17:02.14 | alphaone | Just like we did last night, pinky |
| 17:02.28 | robtaylor | but it wouldn't matter, cause we'd have already TAKEN OVER THE WORLD |
| 17:02.49 | hrw|work | There are three types of people: |
| 17:02.49 | hrw|work | Those who don't know what happened, those who wonder what happened, |
| 17:02.49 | hrw|work | and people like us, that MAKE THINGS HAPPEN. |
| 17:03.03 | robtaylor | what just happened? |
| 17:03.45 | hrw|work | taken over the world |
| 17:05.49 | koen | drat |
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| 17:05.54 | koen | time to learn polish |
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| 17:08.25 | hrw|work | cu |
| 17:08.56 | timtimred | this channel just keeps getting bigger! |
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| 17:17.28 | mjr | hmm, what an excellent idea on the list about lost/stolen phones |
| 17:17.56 | koen | the teen buzz? |
| 17:18.13 | koen | I couldn't hear 17kHz when I was a teenager |
| 17:18.26 | mjr | more about the collecting of location and voice data |
| 17:18.37 | koen | ah |
| 17:18.43 | koen | I stopped reading after the teenbuzz |
| 17:19.32 | koen | so it's like http://orbicule.com/undercover/ |
| 17:19.33 | mjr | well, the good stuff was after, though some technical/policy issues remain |
| 17:19.57 | mjr | yeah, somewhat |
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| 18:04.21 | Paavo | Did you hear about this yet? Someone ported Linux to the Siemens SX1 - an S60 phone. http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/SiemensSX1News |
| 18:07.55 | timtimred | its a shame the phone looks like a star trek prop |
| 18:08.43 | timtimred | it looks like a whack nokia design reject |
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| 18:18.17 | mjr | Paavo, curious, but perhaps I'll prefer one designed around it anyway :) |
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| 18:33.29 | Paavo | mjr: of course. Still you have to respect the mad skillz of that guy. |
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| 19:16.06 | buz | can we please get a CF slot and tell the FPGA crowd to go buy http://www.picocomputing.com/products/cards/e12ep.php ? |
| 19:24.01 | tspiggy | That's about $3000... |
| 19:24.31 | tspiggy | It's a very nice device, but rather expensive. |
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| 19:30.06 | buz | still saner than insisting to put an fpga in every phone |
| 19:32.10 | buz | besides that device would likely be quite affordable if you bought it in quantity |
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| 20:39.34 | solars_ | is there already a price and where it is available information around ? |
| 20:39.57 | marcb4242 | 350$ directly shipped from taiwan by fic |
| 20:40.11 | solars_ | thank you |
| 20:41.32 | marcb4242 | solars_: hey, you are sitting in Tirol - any snow already there? |
| 20:42.15 | solars_ | heh, well not much at the moment :( at least here in innsbruck, but the main aeh.. lifts? are opening on friday |
| 20:42.42 | marcb4242 | solars_: I loved to go to Hintertux... |
| 20:43.18 | solars_ | marcb4242, yeah its great there, been there 1 week ago. where are you from ? |
| 20:43.40 | marcb4242 | solars_: was living in Munich, now in Nizza |
| 20:44.01 | solars_ | so youre german? |
| 20:44.15 | marcb4242 | solars_: Jawohl ;-) |
| 20:44.25 | solars_ | heheh :D well nizza isn't that bad :) |
| 20:44.52 | solars_ | why did you move ? |
| 20:44.57 | marcb4242 | solars_: hehe - better weather, the sea and the mountains |
| 20:45.16 | solars_ | cool :) |
| 20:45.18 | marcb4242 | was still swimming three weeks ago |
| 20:45.33 | solars_ | heh, well it wasn't that cold here actually :/ |
| 20:45.49 | solars_ | my snowboard is still covered with dust |
| 20:46.31 | koen | it was 6 degrees last weekend in southern germany |
| 20:47.02 | solars_ | still too 'hot' :P |
| 20:47.24 | koen | cold enough to drink homebrew schnapps ;) |
| 20:47.28 | marcb4242 | from 12:00 to 14:00 you can still do sun bathing at the beach in swim suit |
| 20:47.56 | marcb4242 | koen: I thought you're in NL? |
| 20:48.08 | koen | I am, but I was in .de last weekend |
| 20:48.19 | koen | nellingen, near Ulm |
| 20:48.33 | marcb4242 | I like Ulm - nice Münster |
| 20:48.46 | solars_ | koen, haha yeah :D |
| 20:49.04 | marcb4242 | I nearly went to study there but ended up in Heidelberg :-) |
| 20:49.22 | marcb4242 | alt heidelberg du feine *g* |
| 20:49.32 | solars_ | what did you study ? |
| 20:49.40 | marcb4242 | pyhsics |
| 20:49.47 | solars | ah alright |
| 20:49.51 | marcb4242 | s/pyh/phy/ |
| 20:50.19 | solars | is that guy, who wrote that press information for openmoko, in this channel too ? |
| 20:50.56 | solars | I mean, the presentation |
| 20:50.58 | koen | sean? |
| 20:51.05 | solars | mh don't know the name |
| 20:51.45 | marcb4242 | I guess Sean is to busy? Well, I wouldn't know which his nick is... |
| 20:51.49 | solars | I just wanted to say I like that kind of a tech presentation, pretty cool hehe, I thought immedeately "damn, i need that thing" |
| 20:52.37 | buz | koen: http://www.mobile-review.com/news.php?language=en#news11749 <- supposedly uses your beloved freescale i.mx ;) |
| 20:53.01 | marcb4242 | koen, do you know how the sd driver problem is solved on the neo - wrt the closed sd specs? |
| 20:53.25 | stefan_schmidt | marcb4242: There are already free sd drivers out. |
| 20:53.44 | stefan_schmidt | marcb4242: You can get the simplified sd specs on the net. |
| 20:53.50 | marcb4242 | stefan_schmidt: ah, ok. I assume the motorla ones. |
| 20:54.09 | stefan_schmidt | marcb4242: For example. But there are some more. |
| 20:54.41 | stefan_schmidt | marcb4242: Even vanilla kernel have support. But needs to be extended. |
| 20:55.00 | stefan_schmidt | marcb4242: The problem is still SDIO. No specs for it. |
| 20:55.59 | marcb4242 | stefan_schmidt: as far as I have understood SDIO is not yet an option for the neo anyway? |
| 20:56.13 | marcb4242 | stefan_schmidt: so it is more a general problem? |
| 20:56.48 | stefan_schmidt | marcb4242: Yes, more general. |
| 20:57.09 | buz | does the SDIO licensing say you cant GPL the driver |
| 20:57.15 | buz | or is it just too expensive to get the spec? |
| 20:57.24 | stefan_schmidt | marcb4242: But even for microSD there are Wlan cards. |
| 20:57.36 | buz | stefan_schmidt: actually there aren't really |
| 20:57.42 | buz | the stuff that spectec sells is way oversized |
| 20:57.42 | marcb4242 | stefan_schmidt: yes, but the slot is below the battery in the neo |
| 20:58.10 | stefan_schmidt | marcb4242: Ah, ok, no SDIO then. |
| 20:59.01 | stefan_schmidt | buz: To big. |
| 20:59.06 | noidd | I'd just like to have a neo v1 in my hands :-) |
| 20:59.36 | buz | if i look at the somewhat odd shape of neov1 it might fit |
| 20:59.38 | noidd | actually, an FPGA would be really useful. You could implement a coke-can vending machine in hardware! |
| 20:59.46 | buz | roooofl |
| 20:59.51 | marcb4242 | anybody woring on a map application? like porting maemo mapper? |
| 21:00.10 | noidd | Think about it, drop yer cash in the SD slot (assuming we get specs for SDIO) and the FPGA can vend the can of coke. |
| 21:00.13 | stefan_schmidt | buz: No idea |
| 21:00.16 | noidd | instant market for that I'm sure. |
| 21:00.21 | buz | apropos, is there an open source navigation app i could at least BUY maps for |
| 21:00.32 | marcb4242 | noidd: I'd love to have a replacement for my car engine management - jsut in case.. |
| 21:00.34 | stefan_schmidt | buz: ...about the price of th SD spec. |
| 21:00.36 | noidd | and if you don't like coke... since its an open source FPGA implementation you can change it to vend Pepsi or Jolt |
| 21:00.49 | buz | red bull |
| 21:01.00 | noidd | or Red Bull, indeed. |
| 21:01.04 | buz | but then you may not give it to kids |
| 21:01.07 | noidd | All it would take is those closed source nazi |
| 21:01.08 | thedaniel | i would prefer that it vends fpgas |
| 21:01.13 | buz | or use the phone while you're drunk |
| 21:01.25 | noidd | ;s to give up the SDIO spec and freedom could be ours, carbonated and tasty. |
| 21:01.42 | marcb4242 | buz: maemo-mapper uses gXXXX-maps |
| 21:02.07 | marcb4242 | buz: slightly outside of the TOS |
| 21:02.27 | buz | i think it would be ok in switzerland |
| 21:02.50 | marcb4242 | buz: carbonated water or google maps? |
| 21:03.01 | buz | google maps |
| 21:03.13 | buz | considering that they have the stuff open for taking |
| 21:03.27 | marcb4242 | like the TIGER in the US? |
| 21:03.41 | buz | ? |
| 21:03.55 | marcb4242 | TIGER data is the street map data for free in the US |
| 21:04.10 | buz | oh thats neat |
| 21:04.12 | marcb4242 | the roadmap software is using it |
| 21:04.34 | marcb4242 | roadmap is at least available in the familiar feeds afaik |
| 21:04.44 | buz | considering that the government maintains the data on our taxes, they should just opensource it and be done with it |
| 21:04.59 | marcb4242 | buz: I absolutely agree |
| 21:05.39 | marcb4242 | especially considering that the EU spent 400.000.000EUR in the pockets of Bertelsmann in order to create a google competitor |
| 21:06.05 | marcb4242 | that book scan thingy... |
| 21:06.06 | buz | as far as the EU is concerned, most hope is lost |
| 21:06.34 | marcb4242 | I'm pretty positive about the EU, but not at all about subventions |
| 21:06.43 | buz | thats the biggest part of it |
| 21:07.10 | buz | occasionally they do something right |
| 21:07.10 | buz | like slapping MS |
| 21:07.10 | marcb4242 | :-) |
| 21:07.22 | marcb4242 | I love the Euro |
| 21:07.30 | buz | yeah that was another thing that was mostly right |
| 21:08.15 | buz | most things that make something easier are right |
| 21:08.30 | marcb4242 | IMHO the EU commission is doing lots of good things |
| 21:09.19 | marcb4242 | but again my question: nobody working on a maemo-mapper port? |
| 21:09.30 | buz | in cases where they are trying to find the lowestcommon denominator, that's mostly true |
| 21:09.48 | buz | when they go overboard and want to prescribe something for everyone i'm not sure i like them very much |
| 21:09.56 | koen | marcb4242: http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/maemo-mapper/maemo-mapper-nohildon_svn.bb |
| 21:10.03 | koen | marcb4242: that's a working prototype |
| 21:10.19 | marcb4242 | the nohildon still uses BT to talk to the GPS |
| 21:10.43 | koen | hence 'prototype' :) |
| 21:10.50 | marcb4242 | I looked already in the source code. 10.000 very nice lines |
| 21:11.31 | marcb4242 | okay. I'll see if I get it running on my iPAQ. |
| 21:11.55 | marcb4242 | BTW - OE is sooo cool. Just amazing. |
| 21:19.12 | marcb4242 | from the ML: ""This phone is a Neo1973 and as such is under |
| 21:19.12 | marcb4242 | the protection of the world wide open-source hackers community. Please, |
| 21:19.12 | marcb4242 | from now on, stop smoking, drop all weapons, and handle this device |
| 21:19.12 | marcb4242 | *especially* carefully. " |
| 21:19.48 | koen | http://www.codepoet.org/cake/img_1629.jpg |
| 21:21.10 | buz | oh great |
| 21:21.14 | buz | my isps dns is down again |
| 21:21.32 | myren_ | their server? |
| 21:21.34 | myren_ | just use 4.2.2.2 |
| 21:21.34 | marcb4242 | buz: there are plenty of DNS on the net... |
| 21:21.54 | buz | yeah |
| 21:22.00 | buz | but finding them without dns is somewhat hard |
| 21:22.07 | marcb4242 | buz: lol |
| 21:22.11 | myren_ | hey genius, 4.2.2.2 |
| 21:22.24 | buz | its like calling your phone company about that broken phone |
| 21:22.29 | myren | it aliases local big iron |
| 21:22.39 | marcb4242 | nameserver 212.27.54.252 |
| 21:22.46 | myren | fine dont fucking listen to me. the internet didnt want you anyways jerk. |
| 21:22.48 | marcb4242 | dunno if it is open |
| 21:23.26 | buz | dude? |
| 21:24.02 | buz | no need to freak out |
| 21:24.26 | myren | its been a freaky day. :/ |
| 21:24.43 | buz | i stopped rating mine as to freakiness |
| 21:24.54 | marcb4242 | *that* must have been very freaky... |
| 21:28.06 | myren | 4.2.2.2 is one of the two internet cheat codes i know |
| 21:28.08 | myren | the other is l/p cyberpunk/cyberpunk, which works for 19/20 websites |
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| 22:14.43 | noidd | how did level 3 end up with a whole class A? |
| 22:15.12 | stefan_schmidt | noidd: Come first get much... |
| 22:15.36 | noidd | yeah, cept level 3 is only 6 years old or so |
| 22:15.58 | noidd | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:16.01 | noidd | 8 years old |
| 22:16.47 | noidd | Damn, frigging Maxtor |
| 22:17.13 | noidd | The specs on the "MaxLine" and "Diamond Max 11" drives are identical |
| 22:17.22 | noidd | why the hell is one drive 80$ more expensive than the other |
| 22:18.17 | noidd | I have a diamondmax11 on one side of my raid array. I'm scared tro puyt the other type on the other side of the mirror but i'm not sure I want to spend the extra $80 if they are functionally identical |
| 22:22.28 | buz | mhh |
| 22:22.37 | buz | i think warranty are different |
| 22:23.01 | buz | (maxtor are just about the worst drives anyway) |
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