| 01:05.59 | timtimred | evening! |
| 01:06.25 | timtimred | more lame questions... |
| 01:06.42 | timtimred | does it have USB host, or device only |
| 01:07.40 | timtimred | oops, i see it in the mailing list |
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| 01:14.37 | timtimred | heh, spam in the mailing list already. |
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| 15:26.27 | buz | does anybody know anything about the external dimensions of the neo1973 |
| 15:28.23 | so_solid_moo | you can roughly figure it out from the image |
| 15:28.27 | so_solid_moo | since we know the screen size :) |
| 15:30.31 | buz | yeah |
| 15:30.35 | buz | but thickness is harder |
| 15:31.39 | buz | as long as its under 120x60x25mm all would be fine ;) |
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| 15:32.26 | buz | not sure if the hole serves any purpose, btw? |
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| 15:34.52 | koen | bottle opener |
| 15:35.21 | stefan_schmidt | koen: That would be fine. ;) |
| 15:36.25 | buz | maybe we could somehow stuff an usb stick in there |
| 15:36.49 | so_solid_moo | buz: I estimated the dimensions to be 7.3x * 3.75x * x |
| 15:37.00 | so_solid_moo | and I estimated x == 19mm |
| 15:37.03 | buz | inch or centimeters |
| 15:37.12 | so_solid_moo | milimeters |
| 15:37.27 | buz | that would be rather big |
| 15:37.30 | buz | but maybe ok still |
| 15:38.05 | so_solid_moo | well, thinner than you want, but longer too |
| 15:38.13 | so_solid_moo | obviously those are all estimates, though |
| 15:38.26 | buz | thinner is good |
| 15:38.40 | buz | but nearly 70mm wide |
| 15:38.57 | buz | the nokia e61 is a little over that and i consider it to be too wide to comfortably fit pockets |
| 15:39.04 | so_solid_moo | well, my estimate of x == 19mm is based on the screen being 2.8" height-ways, not across the diagnoal |
| 15:39.08 | so_solid_moo | diagonal |
| 15:39.18 | so_solid_moo | if it's 2.8" across the diagonal, it's even smaller |
| 15:39.26 | buz | i thought that was diagonal |
| 15:39.39 | buz | 2.8" height would be big for a mobile screen |
| 15:39.40 | so_solid_moo | well, I thought so too, but then that makes the DPI people have been saying wrong |
| 15:40.08 | buz | well i guess for a gps you would want big screen |
| 15:40.14 | so_solid_moo | well, the res. is 640x480 |
| 15:40.21 | buz | 4:* |
| 15:40.24 | buz | 4:3 |
| 15:40.40 | so_solid_moo | that 640 is either 70mm across, or 60mm, depending on how you measure the screen |
| 15:41.32 | buz | i wonder if there really is a rounde pcb in there? or partly empty space |
| 15:41.56 | so_solid_moo | so, it's 230DPI if it's 70mm, or 280DPI if it's 60mm I think |
| 15:42.06 | buz | i think i read both on the ml |
| 15:42.19 | buz | ridiculously high in any case |
| 15:42.28 | buz | which is good ; |
| 15:42.34 | koen | 285 |
| 15:42.38 | so_solid_moo | so, it's 230DPI if it's 70mm, or 280DPI if it's 60mm I think |
| 15:42.41 | so_solid_moo | oops |
| 15:42.44 | koen | and a 2.8" diagonal |
| 15:42.56 | so_solid_moo | ok, so I estimate x =~ 16mm then :D |
| 15:43.06 | buz | well i could live with t hat |
| 15:43.22 | buz | tho i might do something crazy and have someone machine an alu case for it |
| 15:43.26 | so_solid_moo | that would make it <120mm long |
| 15:43.31 | buz | special phone requires special case |
| 15:44.17 | buz | and maybe a square one at that |
| 15:44.19 | so_solid_moo | so, my guess is 120mm x 60mm x 16mm |
| 15:44.21 | buz | stuff some more thingy inside |
| 15:46.17 | buz | thinking about it |
| 15:46.21 | buz | that might be a rather stupid idea |
| 15:46.26 | buz | metal shielding rf and that |
| 15:48.01 | so_solid_moo | heh |
| 15:48.26 | marcb4242 | you should nag sean on the ml to update the ws :) |
| 15:48.52 | buz | i already am on the wifi crusade |
| 15:48.58 | buz | someone else can go on the ws crusade |
| 15:58.31 | koen | ws? |
| 15:58.49 | koen | ah, the website |
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| 16:43.03 | Buffet | 120x60x18 are the dimensions |
| 16:43.17 | so_solid_moo | hey, that was a good estimate then :D |
| 16:43.22 | Buffet | yep |
| 16:43.56 | so_solid_moo | I like those dimensions; about the size of my current phone but a good bit thinner |
| 17:01.23 | nh_work | Buffet: huh, I had estimated 111x55x18... Guess it's a little bigger. :( |
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| 17:18.05 | marcb4242 | Buffet: do you know if it will have a stylus? |
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| 21:29.31 | lkcl | ttp://hands.com/~lkcl/linux.phones.html - review appreciated! |
| 21:29.37 | lkcl | http://hands.com/~lkcl/linux.phones.html oops |
| 21:34.28 | xorAxAx | lkcl: nice read |
| 21:34.45 | xorAxAx | i wonder if fic produced any phones before that hit the market in high quantities |
| 21:34.50 | lkcl | ta. comments mistakes suggestions criticism appreciated |
| 21:35.21 | xorAxAx | lkcl: the 5th link is missing a space after it |
| 21:35.47 | lkcl | ta |
| 21:51.58 | Stephmw | lkcl: 3 processors in the A780.. main, GSM, s/GSM/GPS/ |
| 21:52.47 | lkcl | ta stephmw |
| 21:53.09 | marcb4242 | lkcl: great read. the main difference between the ipaq6515w and the fic neo1973 is that the latter has vendor support. |
| 21:54.09 | marcb4242 | I started four years ago to develop for the ipaq and thought/hoped that compaq would finally do dual os support but it never happend. |
| 21:54.10 | Stephmw | lkcl: let me know when you get to writing about the Greenphone, I have one |
| 21:54.48 | lkcl | Stephmw: cool, have you investigated it, at all? can you tell me a bit about it - by email - to lkcl@lkcl.net ? |
| 21:54.56 | lkcl | i've got one too but haven't had time to even open the cd |
| 21:55.09 | Stephmw | ahh :) you should hop into #qtopia |
| 21:55.12 | Stephmw | (as well) |
| 21:57.03 | marcb4242 | the ipaqs thus remained geek only toys. the neo will hopefully something that my none geek friends will have too. :) and hopefully it will have some sw on it that I wrote... |
| 21:57.56 | Stephmw | haha |
| 21:58.02 | marcb4242 | :) |
| 22:01.49 | marcb4242 | lkcl: concerning the hammerhead: it will definitely be interesting to figure out what is happening on the serial link. Being able to get independent from the cell operator for kicking the almanac and ephemeris onto the chip would be a big plus. |
| 22:02.16 | lkcl | marcb4b42: i have some traces there and can do some more, easily enough. |
| 22:03.01 | lkcl | at some point, now that i've enabled AT debug logging in wince, i'm going to run the GPS program and do gnu-haret 'wi' tracing on the SPI port. |
| 22:03.33 | lkcl | _great_ - haralde says there's a TS07.10 implementation hosted at berlios! |
| 22:04.39 | marcb4242 | apt: TS07.10? |
| 22:05.14 | marcb4242 | I should read TFM :) |
| 22:07.04 | marcb4242 | apt: TS07.10 is Motorola's MUX driver to 2.6.x. |
| 22:07.05 | apt | marcb4242: okay |
| 22:07.53 | so_solid_moo | would it be a bit more informative to say it's about virtual serial ports? |
| 22:07.57 | stefan_schmidt | marcb4242: Motorola has no driver for 2.6.x. Harald ported it. |
| 22:08.34 | stefan_schmidt | Same system as on the neo. And again Harald write it. |
| 22:10.23 | marcb4242 | ~TS07.10 |
| 22:10.24 | apt | rumour has it, ts07.10 is Motorola's MUX driver to 2.6.x. |
| 22:10.43 | marcb4242 | apt: forget TS07.10 |
| 22:10.43 | apt | marcb4242: i forgot ts07.10 |
| 22:11.40 | marcb4242 | apt: TS07.10 is Motorola's MUX driver ported by Harald to 2.6.x. |
| 22:11.41 | apt | okay, marcb4242 |
| 22:11.52 | marcb4242 | stefan_schmidt: :) |
| 22:12.08 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 22:12.19 | marcb4242 | ~TS07.10 |
| 22:12.20 | apt | somebody said ts07.10 was Motorola's MUX driver ported by Harald to 2.6.x. |
| 22:12.54 | stefan_schmidt | To be right ts07.10 is a standard describing the protocol used for multiplexing. |
| 22:13.36 | marcb4242 | apt: ts07.10 is also a standard describing the protocol used for multiplexing. |
| 22:13.37 | apt | okay, marcb4242 |
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| 22:15.57 | marcb4242 | lkcl: if fic writes a good user space daemon for the gps I'd just be happy with it |
| 22:16.28 | marcb4242 | lkcl: I guess Harald is doing that? |
| 22:18.38 | marcb4242 | lkcl: I wonder what global locates motivation is to not open up the protocol? |
| 22:23.01 | lkcl | yeah, likewise. |
| 22:23.28 | lkcl | patents and intellectual property rights from the investor's perspective, they must own everything, marcb4242. |
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| 22:23.47 | Stephmw | lkcl: there's not just that |
| 22:24.07 | Stephmw | lkcl: the mobile industry is a sewer of suspicion and back-stabbing competition practices |
| 22:24.24 | Stephmw | lkcl: no-one shares anything unless they're forced to |
| 22:25.01 | lkcl | tell me about it, Stephmw. actually, they threaten each other. it's a billion-dollar industry where they are losing money hand-over fist and waiting for everyone else to go bust. |
| 22:26.05 | lkcl | no, nobody forced them, FIC: sean moko recognises that the development cycle for phones has to be quicker and cost less, and decided to experiment by backing linux. |
| 22:26.11 | Stephmw | marcb4242: it's another competitive edge these days |
| 22:26.16 | marcb4242 | lkcl: it is like you write in your paper: finally it will be comoditised hardware like the pc |
| 22:26.23 | lkcl | but they're not stupid: the phone _is_ wince-capable :) |
| 22:26.39 | lkcl | well i hope so, marcb |
| 22:26.56 | Stephmw | lkcl: I'm neck-deep in the industry... funnily enough it also means I'm ending up being told I'm not allowed to look at Sun's GPL'd J2ME sources |
| 22:27.14 | lkcl | well that's a good thing, right, Stephmw? :) |
| 22:28.04 | Stephmw | it is? |
| 22:28.18 | Stephmw | I wanted to port it to the Greenphone and OpenMoko... sigh. |
| 22:28.33 | lkcl | well, i'm biased: i detest java. |
| 22:28.43 | Stephmw | haha |
| 22:28.52 | Stephmw | I write Java almost all day |
| 22:29.48 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 22:30.04 | lkcl | :) |
| 22:30.21 | lkcl | btw Stephmw: do you know the bluetooth chipset in the greenphone |
| 22:30.30 | lkcl | and does anyone know the bt chipset in the neo1973? |
| 22:30.43 | Stephmw | err... no, not offhand |
| 22:30.51 | Stephmw | lemme see if /proc has the answer |
| 22:31.14 | marcb4242 | lkcl: "the development cycle for phones has to be quicker and cost less" -> I'm quite positive that there will come lots of innovations from the floss front that nobody has yet dreamt off. |
| 22:31.41 | *** join/#openmoko yure (n=yure@dhcp-212-235-229-194.sd.uni-lj.si) |
| 22:32.13 | marcb4242 | once the neo1973 has wifi there will soon be very cool solutions for self meshing networks. |
| 22:32.30 | lkcl | marcb: it's a long list - rproxy to save costs, web servers, remote management, just to name a few |
| 22:33.13 | lkcl | Stephmw: cr2 on #htc-linux wants to know. |
| 22:33.44 | marcb4242 | as mickeyl said: it will be a dev plattform for more than just phones. cut off the GSM and it still is a great embedded platform with soon lots of brainshare |
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| 22:34.41 | buz | oh boy i'd love to see a htc slide keyboard style phone running a linux stack |
| 22:34.58 | noidd | keyboard would be the killer addition to the hardware |
| 22:35.01 | noidd | greetings btw. |
| 22:35.36 | buz | actually |
| 22:35.40 | marcb4242 | I'm not missing these tiny mice boards :p |
| 22:35.42 | buz | i saw a really tiny usb keyboard today |
| 22:35.50 | buz | 15$ |
| 22:35.53 | buz | might get one |
| 22:35.53 | marcb4242 | but a nice foldable bt one... :D |
| 22:36.06 | buz | those are generally twice the size of a normal phone |
| 22:36.08 | buz | even folded |
| 22:36.16 | noidd | its all about reducing the gadgets you carry |
| 22:36.21 | buz | and need another pair of batteries and space |
| 22:36.26 | buz | i want THE ONE device |
| 22:36.37 | buz | technically those htc devices are perfect |
| 22:36.41 | noidd | the reason I stopped working on my Zaurus platform was bevcause I wasn't discaplined enough to carry both my Zaurus and my cellphone. |
| 22:36.43 | buz | but i wont go near winmobile again |
| 22:36.53 | Stephmw | noidd: likewise |
| 22:38.16 | buz | these days i dont even carry an ipod anymore |
| 22:38.21 | buz | just a small usb stick with mp3 player |
| 22:38.26 | marcb4242 | I always feel an on screen kb with word completion more convenient than the mini kb's |
| 22:38.28 | buz | and a phone |
| 22:38.45 | noidd | really? |
| 22:38.45 | buz | i wouldnt carry the stick either if the damn sony phone would use anything above 128mb cards |
| 22:38.51 | *** join/#openmoko malverian (n=malveria@gentoo/developer/malverian) |
| 22:39.00 | noidd | I guess I was really spoiled by the Zaurus c760 display |
| 22:39.00 | buz | mini kbs >> touchscreen |
| 22:39.12 | buz | (and i'm carrying a touch screen phone for 3 years now) |
| 22:39.20 | noidd | You know, we should use graffiti |
| 22:39.27 | buz | yikes |
| 22:39.30 | buz | worst thing ever |
| 22:39.41 | noidd | pick touch keyboards take up valuable screen estate |
| 22:39.48 | noidd | at least with graffiti its smaller |
| 22:40.08 | buz | but maybe i could get used to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dasher |
| 22:40.18 | buz | it supposedly can go very fast once you've got some training |
| 22:41.03 | marcb4242 | the great thing is: everybody will get his personal poison - be it pock kb, dasher or graffiti |
| 22:41.06 | malverian | Is FIC making the 1973s available to people that want to develop for the platform? |
| 22:41.32 | buz | mhh not entirely sure how you would go about a truly integrated KB with the 1973 |
| 22:41.34 | marcb4242 | malverian: not ahead of anybody else |
| 22:41.34 | noidd | See, I do but I'm happy to wait until Jan |
| 22:42.08 | noidd | my life is going to be insanely hectic this year so I wouldn't want to waste one sitting idle on my desk. |
| 22:42.09 | malverian | marcb4242: So how does one test their software for the platform? |
| 22:42.10 | buz | anythings better than T9 in my book |
| 22:42.23 | stefan_schmidt | malverian: Thy talked about hacker discount. |
| 22:42.40 | malverian | stefan_schmidt: I figured they'd be reaching out to try to get a good set of launch apps. |
| 22:43.06 | Stephmw | lkcl: not yet found a proc entry with the info |
| 22:43.11 | malverian | My main reservation about the first model is that it doesn't launch with bluetooth. |
| 22:43.34 | lkcl | hm it's probably connected via serial so it won't be |
| 22:43.41 | koen | malverian: que? |
| 22:43.47 | malverian | Before I replace my sony ericsson, I need another program that lets me control my Linux box (music, volume, dvds etc). |
| 22:43.53 | stefan_schmidt | malverian: There will be some pre specs in the next das. It should have bluetooth. |
| 22:43.55 | koen | malverian: since with is bluetooth 2.0 not bluetooth? |
| 22:44.14 | malverian | koen: The 1973 does not have bluetooth according to every press release I've seen. |
| 22:44.16 | stefan_schmidt | Stephmw: dmesg? |
| 22:45.04 | koen | malverian: see the mailinlist and planet.openmoko.org |
| 22:45.15 | koen | mailinglist* |
| 22:45.22 | buz | o theres a planet |
| 22:45.29 | buz | more fodder for my rss client |
| 22:46.23 | buz | no rss?? |
| 22:46.44 | Stephmw | there is rss - just not linked |
| 22:46.54 | Stephmw | rss20.xml I think |
| 22:47.08 | koen | it's a standard planetplanet install |
| 22:47.17 | koen | so any of the usual uri's should work |
| 22:47.51 | stefan_schmidt | rss10.xml, rss20.xml, etc. |
| 22:49.20 | buz | right |
| 22:49.21 | buz | thx |
| 22:50.07 | Stephmw | stefan_schmidt: nothing jumps out at me as being BT... (other than "BT Initialized over") |
| 22:50.36 | Stephmw | stefan_schmidt: there's a "omega_bt" kernel module loaded though |
| 22:50.38 | stefan_schmidt | Stephmw: hmm, lsmod? |
| 22:50.50 | stefan_schmidt | Stephmw: you're fast. ;) |
| 22:51.00 | Stephmw | stefan_schmidt: hehe |
| 22:51.06 | Stephmw | stefan_schmidt: I read minds |
| 22:51.15 | stefan_schmidt | Stephmw: kernel 2.4.x, right? |
| 22:51.19 | Stephmw | yeah |
| 22:51.25 | stefan_schmidt | this sucks |
| 22:51.28 | Stephmw | 2.4.19-rmk7-pxa2 |
| 22:51.34 | Stephmw | someone's working on 2.6 atm |
| 22:51.47 | Stephmw | but they'll knock heads with those drivers methinks |
| 22:51.47 | stefan_schmidt | no idea about it. |
| 22:52.10 | Stephmw | maybe they'll be able to get TT to rebuild them for 2.6... *shrug* |
| 22:53.51 | stefan_schmidt | Stephmw: This would mean you have to wait months again before they release it... |
| 22:54.23 | Stephmw | stefan_schmidt: quite likely |
| 22:54.49 | malverian | Hmm.. so the phone is going to actually have a usb port? |
| 22:55.01 | malverian | I'm thinking this phone is going to be a must have :) |
| 22:55.24 | marcb4242 | malverian: usb both, as device and host |
| 22:55.31 | stefan_schmidt | malverian: Yes, usb device and host mode. But please read the ml archive. This was asked again and again. |
| 22:55.42 | malverian | marcb4242: yeah, read about the usb host support which is what excites me. |
| 22:56.19 | malverian | stefan_schmidt: I'm reading the ML right now. I just saw someone that was mentioning the fact that a usb wifi adapter could be used and such. |
| 22:56.25 | stefan_schmidt | koen: But he need sleep. :) |
| 22:56.25 | marcb4242 | malverian: now you can always carry your laser printer around and print everywhere ;-) |
| 22:56.33 | malverian | marcb4242: Heh :) |
| 22:56.40 | malverian | Seriously.. this thing is going to have so many uses... |
| 22:56.49 | malverian | I'm stoked. |
| 22:56.54 | malverian | $350 is a give-away too. |
| 22:57.08 | marcb4242 | malverian: shhht! |
| 22:57.13 | marcb4242 | :) |
| 22:57.25 | malverian | Well.. to most people it is still expensive. |
| 22:57.33 | malverian | But for a linux geek, it's the perfect device :) |
| 22:57.39 | Stephmw | unsubsidised phones cost more |
| 22:57.40 | stefan_schmidt | malverian: It was designed to be a cheap phone. |
| 22:58.07 | buz | cheap? that vga screen sure isnt a sign of cheapness |
| 22:58.16 | marcb4242 | futjitsu plans a 500$ nav device w/o gsm... |
| 22:58.25 | buz | i dont think theres ANY vga phone aside of the htc universal |
| 22:58.28 | stefan_schmidt | buz: the cpu is quite old |
| 22:58.30 | buz | which is about 1000$ |
| 22:58.33 | malverian | The GSM is the killer feature for me. |
| 22:58.46 | buz | so what |
| 22:58.54 | buz | you dont need no 1ghz cpu in a phone |
| 22:59.13 | marcb4242 | buz: I wouldn't mind either :) |
| 22:59.15 | Stephmw | butbut... I want it to warm my hands up |
| 22:59.17 | malverian | Sorry... the GPS rather |
| 22:59.19 | malverian | Not GSM. |
| 22:59.26 | malverian | I'm severely directionally challenged. |
| 22:59.32 | stefan_schmidt | buz: I also think it's fine. |
| 22:59.36 | buz | funny, personally i dont care for the gps at all |
| 22:59.38 | Stephmw | malverian: aye, GPS is sweet for the wife... |
| 22:59.40 | malverian | So if I can use my phone for navigation instead of getting a laptop.. that's a killer savings ;) |
| 22:59.54 | stefan_schmidt | buz: For the next phone they like to use actually hardware. |
| 23:00.20 | malverian | buz: Everyone has a thing that sets them off. |
| 23:00.21 | marcb4242 | stefan_schmidt: so this is software only? |
| 23:00.26 | buz | not fussed about the cpu, much more so about the wifi ;) |
| 23:00.33 | buz | malverian: obviously |
| 23:00.40 | buz | (it being a phone is weird enough ;) |
| 23:00.55 | malverian | buz: The wifi is going to be built in as well or do you mean w/ usb? |
| 23:01.20 | buz | malverian: i want built in, not sure if i get the first version wihtout it |
| 23:01.35 | malverian | buz: Gotcha. |
| 23:02.05 | buz | having an usb wifi stick dangle out of it is a pai |
| 23:02.08 | buz | n |
| 23:03.37 | marcb4242 | I'd be happy to get a-gps w/o the need for operator support. Getting a quick fix everywhere w/o the need to dial in. |
| 23:04.28 | marcb4242 | imho geo tagging will just be a cool fun. |
| 23:04.59 | buz | geotagging would be useful with a cam |
| 23:05.21 | marcb4242 | and hey: geo blogging will show up too. (you read it first here:-) |
| 23:05.49 | buz | i think i've already seen geoblogging |
| 23:05.52 | buz | somewhere |
| 23:06.02 | marcb4242 | buz: yes, bu on the other hand I can easily merge the gps data with the exif via the timestamp |
| 23:06.18 | buz | yes but theres the second device in you rpocket again ;) |
| 23:06.42 | marcb4242 | buz: you will walk around ny city and once you sit down in a cafe, all the blogs written there will show up on your screen :) |
| 23:07.16 | buz | i rather shoot myself then write blogs on a touchscreen ;= |
| 23:07.30 | marcb4242 | buz: that's true, but before it has at least a decent optics @ 3MP it is useless for me |
| 23:07.33 | buz | (coming from someone who actually bought a tablet pc) |
| 23:07.34 | *** join/#openmoko hrw|gone (n=hrw@ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl) |
| 23:07.48 | Stephmw | marcb4242: I can see it now... "Ch3ap sEx: 555-3234234" |
| 23:07.57 | marcb4242 | rofl |
| 23:08.23 | buz | more interesting: how do we get cute girls to have such things? |
| 23:08.40 | marcb4242 | buz: kill apps ;) |
| 23:09.09 | marcb4242 | i.e.: which of my girlfriends is around for some shopping |
| 23:09.16 | Stephmw | bwahahaha |
| 23:09.31 | buz | yeah |
| 23:09.41 | buz | and for the men: where is my wife when going out with girlfriend ;) |
| 23:09.42 | Stephmw | marcb4242: actually... there's a j2me app for keeping track of the menstrual cycles of 'multiple partners' |
| 23:09.46 | marcb4242 | koen left :) |
| 23:10.04 | marcb4242 | he is calling his girlfriend now :) |
| 23:10.24 | malverian | buz: usb keyboard ;) |
| 23:10.42 | buz | i rarely blogged anyway |
| 23:10.47 | buz | i usually dont see the point |
| 23:11.18 | buz | i prefer thing swith real interaction, i.e. chat, email and forums |
| 23:11.32 | malverian | The only mention I saw where they said definitively that there would be bluetooth 2.0 onboard was a message from koen. |
| 23:11.40 | malverian | I guess he is part of the actual development team? |
| 23:11.57 | malverian | I checked the ML and Planet. |
| 23:13.47 | malverian | Hmm.. I think we need a modified 'glade' that supports some of the custom widgets they're making. |
| 23:13.58 | malverian | And then create a package for libglade. |
| 23:14.11 | malverian | I hate using code to define the layout of a UI. |
| 23:15.00 | marcb4242 | c y'all |
| 23:15.14 | marcb4242 | night |
| 23:18.24 | stefan_schmidt | malverian: koen has good contacts to the developer. |
| 23:33.43 | *** join/#openmoko ojai (n=foo@rdns.85.161.62.64.fre.communitycolo.net) |
| 23:46.45 | Paavo | Stephmw: of course an app has to be _scalable_ :) |
| 23:46.48 | *** join/#openmoko erus` (n=Tom@ACD4A574.ipt.aol.com) |
| 23:46.56 | erus` | omg this thing looks so cool :) |