| 00:19.57 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel patinux (~patinux@unaffiliated/patinux) |
| 02:08.16 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel fling (~fling@fsf/member/fling) |
| 05:33.41 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel Q-Master^Work (~q-master@217.175.38.170) |
| 05:52.58 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel pabs3 (~pabs3@unaffiliated/pabs3) |
| 07:36.59 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel ao2 (~ao2@host9-28-dynamic.51-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 08:56.54 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel meskal (~quassel@hooty.meskalero.de) |
| 09:10.19 | mickeyl | pity no one is making a linux-based "feature phone". I'd love to work on an OS for something like that. no frickin' package management, no big middleware for all kinds of clients, just a pure phone manager with a small set of plugins. *sigh* |
| 09:10.41 | mickeyl | yes, i know, there is no market for that. still... |
| 09:12.28 | mickeyl | the formfactor of the WiPhone would be perfect for that |
| 09:38.05 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel apt (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 09:38.05 | *** topic/#openmoko-cdevel is Please /join #openmoko | Openmoko Community Developers Channel - discussion on all firmware images, packages and software | SHR: http://shr-project.org | #hackable1 | #openmoko-debian | #qtmoko | #android-on-freerunner | CIA notifications in #freesmartphone.org | Logs: ~logs & http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko-cdevel.txt |
| 09:38.05 | *** mode/#openmoko-cdevel [+v apt] by ChanServ |
| 10:01.59 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel _Chris_ (~Chris@p5DE1A6CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:11.17 | pabs3 | mickeyl: there was actually, based on RPi |
| 10:11.42 | pabs3 | https://wiki.zerophone.org/index.php/Main_Page |
| 10:12.41 | pabs3 | also http://a.wiphone.io/ |
| 10:13.13 | pabs3 | well, the WiPhone isn't Linux based but will be OSS |
| 10:13.19 | mickeyl | Yeah, waiting for the ZeroPhone to actually show up. |
| 10:13.50 | pabs3 | I saw a ZeroPhone in 2017, surprising they didn't build it yet |
| 10:13.53 | mickeyl | No Linux wouldn't be a problem, no GSM is a problem for me. |
| 10:14.27 | mickeyl | Saw it @ FOSDEM2018 and he said there's only one little problem left. |
| 10:14.31 | mickeyl | But I know how these things go. |
| 10:14.31 | pabs3 | is GSM still a thing where you are? here it is completely gone (3G still around tho) |
| 10:15.04 | mickeyl | Absolutely. In Germany we don't have WiFi everywhere. |
| 10:15.08 | mickeyl | not yet at least. |
| 10:15.18 | mickeyl | 10 years from now maybe. |
| 10:15.24 | mickeyl | but until then, I need voice-GSM in a handset |
| 10:17.22 | pabs3 | someone on #osmocom recently mentioned getting osmocombb working on sciphone dream g2 btw |
| 10:18.15 | pabs3 | that is a smartphonish thing tho |
| 10:34.05 | mickeyl | my obsession about feature phones is that I'd love to have a real number-keyboard plus a number of soft keys and standby that lasts at least a week. |
| 10:36.55 | mickeyl | that's why ideally I'd love to see an E-ink display, which should be fine for phone/contacts/messages. |
| 10:39.20 | mickeyl | https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/light-phone-2#/ has at least the display, but is lacking a number keypad. |
| 10:39.36 | mickeyl | and I'm not sure it runs an open OS in the first place |
| 10:40.09 | mickeyl | oh it does. LightOS (modified Android) |
| 10:53.30 | JaMa | yes, I would use dumb feature phone with GSM (smartest feature might be to create wifi hotspot for my other device), this could last week and I would use it really only for voice calls over GSM |
| 10:53.50 | JaMa | and it could be relatively small |
| 10:54.57 | JaMa | and then some other device with bigger screen, hw keyboard like the cosmo comunicator od GPD Micro PC which could do everything else |
| 10:55.19 | JaMa | and occassionally use 4G network through the AP on small feature phone |
| 10:56.10 | JaMa | even SMS could be routed from the small feature phone to the bigger brother where I could reply on full hw keyboard (or from PC) |
| 10:57.22 | JaMa | but then I would say, that BT headset would be useful on the small feature phone as well.. and then probably something else and in the end it might not be as dumb as we would like it to be |
| 10:57.59 | JaMa | maybe something a bit more restricted than new palm companion device |
| 11:09.37 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel daniele_athome (~daniele_a@2.236.49.9) |
| 11:15.40 | pabs3 | wonders if making a phone out of the Linux-based LTE modems would be feasible |
| 11:24.32 | bencoh | based only on the PLS8 with no other SoC, for instance? |
| 11:26.02 | bencoh | (or, strike that, the pls8 wasn't the one with a linux firmware ... or was it?) |
| 11:31.47 | pabs3 | I was thinking of these ones: https://osmocom.org/projects/quectel-modems/ |
| 11:32.08 | pabs3 | ISTR Harald mentioning other ones in the blog post about it tho |
| 11:33.23 | pabs3 | https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-8151-dissecting_modern_3g_4g_cellular_modems |
| 11:35.12 | pabs3 | http://git.gnumonks.org/laforge-slides/plain/2016/cellular_modems_33c3/33c3-modems.html |
| 11:56.13 | rah | I saw the ZeroPhone @ FOSDEM2019 |
| 11:56.36 | rah | from what I could hear from the back of the room (which wasn't much), there's still some way to go but it's getting there |
| 11:56.55 | rah | a kit package was passed around |
| 11:57.41 | rah | which was a plastic sheet with bubbles containing each of the components |
| 12:38.25 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel apt (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 12:38.26 | *** topic/#openmoko-cdevel is Please /join #openmoko | Openmoko Community Developers Channel - discussion on all firmware images, packages and software | SHR: http://shr-project.org | #hackable1 | #openmoko-debian | #qtmoko | #android-on-freerunner | CIA notifications in #freesmartphone.org | Logs: ~logs & http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko-cdevel.txt |
| 12:38.26 | *** mode/#openmoko-cdevel [+v apt] by ChanServ |
| 13:07.48 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel Donnager (~donnager@helium.progval.net) |
| 13:07.48 | *** mode/#openmoko-cdevel [+o Donnager] by ChanServ |
| 13:20.00 | CRImier | @mickeyl if you're interesting on working on an OS, consider helping the project =) One thing I forgot at the meetup (among others) is a call for action - we could really use some software-related help |
| 13:21.19 | CRImier | so i.e. if you could help make us make a solution for building SD card images, that'd help a lot |
| 13:21.45 | CRImier | since that's one less task I have to do, and at the moment I have to do it manually => doesn't help the situation |
| 13:21.53 | CRImier | I send out hardware to people that help with stuff |
| 14:07.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | re 2G aka GSM: in Germanyx (Europe?) there's a bazillion of M2M applications out there that use 2G. Starting with vending machines selling prepaid charge-up cards for SIM and not ending on fleet management. Nuking 2G would probably instantly kill our industry |
| 14:12.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2G is like the least common denominator fallback for all connectivity solutions, no matter if a GPS tracker to tack und a suspect's car or the deer's necklace or eagle's tracker or the emergency phone on a ski lodge or the remote control for the car alarm and theft protection |
| 14:13.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | and afaik *all* new RAT - be it 3G 4G even 5G allows seamless integration of 2G support |
| 14:19.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik 2G is (or was) still the only RAT that allowed worldwide coverage, and with only 4 bands which is the reason why you could have worldwide coverage. For LTE for example afaik you needed to support over 50 bands to have *almost* worldwide |
| 14:25.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's basically mainly USA where companies are free to cheat on their custromers any way they want since authorities don't do shit to have some minimum of common sense in technology development, where companies are free to discontinue 2G and thus obsolete customer infra investments in the billions to force them spend nerw money on next technology that again will be obsolete after only 3 years |
| 14:45.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | history: USA had some friggin CDMA, then GSM (developed in Germany btw) went global standard, only USA already started diversification again by introducing their own 850/1900 instead of the global 900/1800. Yet in the early days of GSM the world been a better place for communication technologies since it seemed as if we were on a path to reduce the number of local incompatibilities and eventually have a global uniform regulation, |
| 14:45.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:47.02 | mickeyl | wrt. M2M, indeed, I didn't think of that in the first place, but there are probably 10 million cars equipped with 2G SIM cards out there sending data back home. |
| 14:47.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway it's pretty easy to se the pattern, being: it's always USA to start messing up global standards, usually to protect their own industry |
| 14:47.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | mickeyl: indeed |
| 14:48.27 | mickeyl | so we can safely say that 2G is going to be relevant for some more decades. And while it's there, we can as well use it for voice communication. |
| 14:48.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | if USA has the choice to follow a global standard or invent their own incompatible variant, they always opt for the latter |
| 14:49.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | mickeyl: I'd say yes |
| 14:50.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually it's not "the USA" but particularly USA industry, which does so, uncontrolled by any authorities and official regulations |
| 15:08.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw a friend of mine is system admin at Bundesanstalt fuer Arbeit and he always preferred (HS)CSD over GPRS for his ssh session to fix and reboot some runaway servers, since GPRS round trip time always been unbearable |
| 15:09.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas nowadays it's almost impossible to find modems that still support CSD, or providers that allow/provide CSD internet dial-in |
| 15:09.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | so with 2G you have to live with RTT up to 5s |
| 15:23.24 | mickeyl | *nod* I thought FSO could be the middleware for some M2M applications and IIRC both the Calypso the all the SIEMENS/Cinterion modems features CSD, so I added support for it. |
| 15:23.38 | mickeyl | s/Calypso the all/Calypso and all/ |
| 16:23.14 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel pabs3 (~pabs3@unaffiliated/pabs3) |
| 16:53.24 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel pabs3 (~pabs3@unaffiliated/pabs3) |
| 17:53.21 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel pabs3 (~pabs3@unaffiliated/pabs3) |
| 19:28.02 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel apt (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 19:28.02 | *** topic/#openmoko-cdevel is Please /join #openmoko | Openmoko Community Developers Channel - discussion on all firmware images, packages and software | SHR: http://shr-project.org | #hackable1 | #openmoko-debian | #qtmoko | #android-on-freerunner | CIA notifications in #freesmartphone.org | Logs: ~logs & http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko-cdevel.txt |
| 19:28.03 | *** mode/#openmoko-cdevel [+v apt] by ChanServ |
| 19:52.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | a pity FSO didn't receive the attention it should have |
| 21:20.00 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel ao2 (~ao2@host9-28-dynamic.51-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 22:24.48 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel pabs3 (~pabs3@unaffiliated/pabs3) |
| 23:53.40 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel pabs3 (~pabs3@unaffiliated/pabs3) |