| 01:00.10 | lennert | whee.. for $199 you can have your own dual channel 10-bit 120MS/s ADC eval kit http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/3169 |
| 01:00.31 | lennert | (it comes with the 80MS/s chip but you can order the 120MS/s one along with it as a free sample) |
| 01:10.36 | [g2] | so I can over-sample my audio a bit eh ? |
| 01:10.55 | ka6sox-office | ya |
| 01:11.12 | lennert | or hook up your adsl connection to it and see what's going on on those wires :) |
| 01:11.18 | [g2] | heh |
| 01:11.46 | [g2] | are you going to turn it into a 1 channel scope ? |
| 01:11.51 | lennert | possible too |
| 01:11.58 | *** join/#openjtag vmaster_ (i=vmaster@p549B604D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:12.00 | lennert | fpga board + adc + svga output ;) |
| 01:12.47 | [g2] | it's a shame it doesn't do 140Ms |
| 01:12.54 | lennert | why? :) |
| 01:13.11 | [g2] | you could capture 66Mhz PCI |
| 01:13.25 | lennert | well, you could do that already? |
| 01:13.42 | lennert | you don't need an ADC for that though.. |
| 01:13.43 | [g2] | doesn't Niquest say you need 2x |
| 01:13.47 | lennert | no |
| 01:13.49 | lennert | pci runs at 66mhz |
| 01:14.04 | [g2] | which means you need to sample at 133 |
| 01:14.11 | lennert | iff you want to sample the pci clock |
| 01:14.21 | lennert | for all the other lines, you only need to sample at 66mhz |
| 01:14.35 | lennert | (you can have the pci clock trigger the sampling) |
| 01:15.07 | lennert | the highest frequency you can put on a 66mhz pci data line is 33mhz (by alternating 0 1 0 1) |
| 01:16.11 | [g2] | well 140 woud still be nice to capture 133 memory right ? :) |
| 01:16.11 | lennert | but since my xeon box died, i only have 33mhz pci buses at home anyway |
| 01:16.14 | lennert | well, yeah ;) |
| 01:16.25 | lennert | it would be nice to capture everything! |
| 01:16.31 | [g2] | deep, wide fast analyzers :) |
| 01:16.42 | lennert | although why you'd capture those protocols with an adc is still somewhat beyond me |
| 01:16.49 | lennert | unless you want to test bus behavior |
| 01:16.53 | lennert | and voltage waveforms and such |
| 01:17.09 | [g2] | yeah you don't need the adc for that |
| 01:17.18 | [g2] | except for looking for glitches and noise |
| 01:17.27 | lennert | i admit, after reading so much electronic theory, i got rather interested in trying some of those rc/rlc circuits out myself.. except that i have no scope |
| 01:17.40 | lennert | [g2]: yeah, for that it's useful |
| 01:17.45 | [g2] | I was reading that on the wiki too |
| 01:18.06 | [g2] | that's the kind of stuff I want the kids to understand |
| 01:18.16 | lennert | what wiki? |
| 01:18.24 | [g2] | wikipedia |
| 01:18.41 | lennert | ah, right |
| 01:19.59 | [g2] | my son(8) walks up to the chat screen and all the windos and know who's sending me messages etc... and what part of the world you guys hail from |
| 01:20.09 | lennert | nice :) |
| 01:20.21 | lennert | i want an 8yr old son too |
| 01:20.22 | [g2] | I can do hex |
| 01:20.31 | lennert | i want them to skip the 2yr-4yr phase |
| 01:20.31 | [g2] | doh.... he |
| 01:20.38 | lennert | and the 14yr-18yr phase |
| 01:20.55 | lennert | they're cute when they're 2mo old and 4yr-14yr old :) |
| 01:21.00 | lennert | hello there! |
| 01:21.05 | [g2] | I'll bet you were a little hellion growing up :) |
| 01:21.14 | lennert | i was a real pain to raise |
| 01:21.34 | [g2] | boundless energy I'll bet |
| 01:21.40 | lennert | yeah |
| 01:21.51 | lennert | and stuck in a place where i couldn't do anything with that energy (i.e. school) |
| 01:22.11 | lennert | i was so glad i could finally quit school |
| 01:22.13 | [g2] | yeah that's a real shame, but it works out in the end :) |
| 01:22.20 | lennert | yeah, it did |
| 01:22.32 | lennert | wish it had worked out differently though |
| 01:22.41 | lennert | i mean, i wish i would have found my place at the uni, but i didn't |
| 01:22.44 | [g2] | really ? How so ? |
| 01:22.59 | [g2] | during school ? |
| 01:23.14 | lennert | stuff that keeps researchers and PhDs busy just doesn't interest me much |
| 01:23.26 | lennert | they mostly do stuff to get more grants |
| 01:23.28 | lennert | at least over here |
| 01:23.53 | [g2] | Well Bill G and Mike D. were dropouts right ? |
| 01:23.57 | [g2] | and Fred S. |
| 01:24.14 | lennert | yeah, but that's not a good reason for dropping out |
| 01:24.28 | [g2] | Maybe Fred S. graduated, but he got a C or D on his business idea that he implemented |
| 01:24.33 | lennert | many people drop out from school and get stoned all day because they say einstein did that too |
| 01:24.53 | lennert | true |
| 01:24.57 | lennert | i'm kind of ambivalent |
| 01:25.05 | lennert | i know that not being in uni anymore is much better for me |
| 01:25.22 | lennert | while at the same time i can't really explain it to people as such |
| 01:25.33 | lennert | i.e. "i'm much better off without uni" sounds way too arrogant |
| 01:25.40 | lennert | even though i do feel a lot happier |
| 01:25.57 | [g2] | we I think you are just trying to find your own path |
| 01:26.03 | [g2] | well |
| 01:26.09 | lennert | i guess so.. |
| 01:26.24 | [g2] | dyoung-away awake ? |
| 01:26.26 | lennert | studying day and night nowadays :) |
| 01:27.05 | [g2] | dyoung-away likes a quote from a ski poster I told him about |
| 01:27.45 | [g2] | Some guy is dropped in (heli style) at the top of a pristine mountain |
| 01:28.06 | [g2] | he's skiing down all alone and at the bottom it says |
| 01:28.14 | [g2] | "Beaten paths are for beaten men" |
| 01:28.26 | lennert | yeah, that one's inspiring |
| 01:28.49 | [g2] | what's the other site ? failure.com ? |
| 01:28.58 | lennert | could be |
| 01:29.02 | lennert | the Despair posters |
| 01:29.07 | lennert | i love those |
| 01:29.09 | [g2] | that's it! |
| 01:29.17 | [g2] | hey it's a new year |
| 01:29.28 | lennert | time to despair! |
| 01:31.22 | [g2] | "The Art of Demotivation" looks good too |
| 01:31.39 | lennert | is that like the art of war? :) |
| 01:38.02 | ka6sox-office | where are the dispari posters? |
| 01:40.40 | [g2] | despair.com |
| 01:41.24 | [g2] | hey the new raptors sound need (by way expensive) |
| 01:41.53 | [g2] | They've got a clear lexan top so you can watch the platters and heads move at 10K RPMs |
| 01:42.08 | [g2] | wall the platters anyway |
| 01:42.20 | [g2] | the heads don't move at 10K :0 |
| 01:43.05 | lennert | you won't see the platters move though |
| 01:43.19 | lennert | not if they're polished enough, which they should be :) |
| 01:43.46 | [g2] | Oh I'm sure there's some marks on the spindel |
| 01:44.14 | lennert | right, some nuts and bolts |
| 01:44.21 | [g2] | I'm sure the first protos were: "Dude when are you going to turn it on" ? |
| 01:44.33 | [g2] | "Dude it _is_ on" ! |
| 01:44.39 | [g2] | No... |
| 01:44.40 | lennert | hehe |
| 01:44.45 | [g2] | WAY |
| 01:45.01 | lennert | dude |
| 01:45.08 | lennert | sounds like the big lebowski :) |
| 01:45.41 | [g2] | I'll have to rent it is sounds good |
| 01:45.42 | lennert | 10krpm drives are fun.. try removing one from a hotswap rack and turning it :P |
| 01:45.48 | lennert | pieces flying everywhere |
| 01:45.58 | lennert | [g2]: it's definitely very good |
| 01:46.18 | [g2] | I raced motocyles for a 1 or 2 |
| 01:47.23 | lennert | i.e. before your wife told you to stop :) |
| 01:47.24 | [g2] | trying to lean over a bike at 90-100MPH takes some force o |
| 01:47.42 | [g2] | long before the wife |
| 01:47.44 | lennert | i'll believe that |
| 01:49.09 | lennert | was nice chatting.. |
| 01:49.18 | lennert | have to go find my bed now.. close to 4am :) |
| 01:49.28 | [g2] | cheers |
| 01:49.29 | lennert | and we're supposed to get up early for shopping |
| 01:49.34 | [g2] | sleep well |
| 01:49.43 | [g2] | and soundly |
| 01:49.48 | lennert | thanks, and you too, whenever you will go |
| 01:50.01 | lennert | ciao! |
| 01:50.08 | [g2] | ciao! |
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| 03:12.14 | beewoolie-rafk | lennert: You may be right about the board providing power to the JTAG driver stage. |
| 08:43.32 | *** join/#openjtag purl (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 08:43.32 | *** topic/#openjtag is This is the place to discuss development of Open JTAG tools and Bootloaders |
| 08:43.36 | ka6sox-office | ~lart qbot |
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| 16:57.49 | prpplague | das beewoolie-afk in the house |
| 16:57.51 | prpplague | !!! |
| 16:58.06 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: almost done with this legacy crap and i can get back to doing dev |
| 16:58.30 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: coolio |
| 16:58.38 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: thats the bad thing about working for a relatively small company, sometimes you don't get to exclusively work on dev |
| 16:59.00 | beewoolie-afk | Yeah, but you're in Barbados! |
| 16:59.27 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: not for long, hehe |
| 16:59.41 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: looks like my wife's visa is finally going through |
| 16:59.54 | beewoolie-afk | What? And leave paradise? |
| 17:00.02 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: might be back in the states as soon as march |
| 17:00.27 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: barbados is a nice place to visit, not so nice to live(especially if you are a geek) |
| 17:02.06 | beewoolie-afk | Would you mind looking at a web page? |
| 17:02.14 | beewoolie-afk | http://www.beyondlogic.org/spp/parallel.htm |
| 17:02.26 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: I'm trying to understand pin 15. |
| 17:02.42 | beewoolie-afk | According to everything I've read, it's supposed to be an input. |
| 17:03.55 | prpplague | right for standard lpt interface |
| 17:04.15 | prpplague | note the SPP heading |
| 17:04.47 | beewoolie-afk | Right. |
| 17:05.03 | beewoolie-afk | I suppose I should check the mode in the bios... |
| 17:05.12 | beewoolie-afk | bbiam |
| 17:11.19 | *** join/#openjtag beewoolie-afk (n=beewooli@206.124.142.26) |
| 17:12.20 | prpplague | *cough* |
| 17:12.23 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: well? |
| 17:12.43 | beewoolie-afk | It's in 'output-only' mode |
| 17:13.02 | beewoolie-afk | I've got a couple of different problems. |
| 17:13.15 | beewoolie-afk | I want to detect the VCC from the target, just because I'm like that. |
| 17:13.29 | beewoolie-afk | Trouble is that the line is being driven by the parallel port. |
| 17:13.41 | beewoolie-afk | The other problem is that the TMS line isn't toggling. |
| 17:14.32 | beewoolie-afk | It's fluctuating between 2.5 and 2.4 when I toggle the output line. |
| 17:15.42 | vmaster | huh? a status line is driven by your parallel port? |
| 17:15.51 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: remember depending on your circuit some lines might need to be pulled up or down |
| 17:16.19 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: when you day you want to detect vcc from the target |
| 17:16.26 | beewoolie-afk | Hmm. That could be the issue. it could be floating high. |
| 17:16.32 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: you mean you want to know when it is present, or the value? |
| 17:16.36 | beewoolie-afk | The thing is that this status line is used to detect Vcc. |
| 17:16.50 | beewoolie-afk | If it doesn't float low, it wont work at all for detecting Vcc. |
| 17:17.11 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: yea |
| 17:17.32 | beewoolie-afk | This is the xilinx cable. |
| 17:17.35 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: you trying to do a some sort of jtag dongle? |
| 17:17.50 | beewoolie-afk | I'm not building the circuit myself. |
| 17:18.22 | beewoolie-afk | According to the schematic, there is a diode to prevent current flow from the parallel port to the target on this line. |
| 17:19.13 | vmaster | what does the nError bit read when you have a target connected? |
| 17:19.15 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: you got a url for the schematic, i'd like to have alook |
| 17:19.16 | vmaster | with power on? |
| 17:19.22 | vmaster | http://toolbox.xilinx.com/docsan/xilinx4/data/docs/pac/appendixb.html |
| 17:20.01 | beewoolie-afk | I got the schematic from ... http://toolbox.xilinx.com/docsan/3_1i/pdf/docs/jtg/jtg.pdf |
| 17:20.53 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: probably the easiest thing to do is write a small app to monitor the input lines and just do some tests |
| 17:21.26 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: but from the schematic and i would assume that that the system would interpret a float on 15 as a low value |
| 17:21.30 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: That's what I'm doing. The !Error line is always high. |
| 17:21.47 | beewoolie-afk | vmaster: Power on to the target? |
| 17:21.49 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: even when you add voltage to it? |
| 17:22.01 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: add voltage to pin 15? |
| 17:22.03 | beewoolie-afk | vmaster: The nError bit is always high. |
| 17:22.10 | vmaster | strange... |
| 17:22.25 | prpplague | interesting |
| 17:22.38 | beewoolie-afk | the target is 3.3V, when the cable is detached from the parallel port, I get about 3V at pin 15. |
| 17:22.43 | vmaster | do you have bit 5 set on the control port? Enable Bit-Directional? |
| 17:23.23 | beewoolie-afk | vmaster: That was the next thing I was going to check. |
| 17:23.29 | vmaster | my parallel port behaves really weird with that bit set |
| 17:23.33 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: might also want to check you dmesg to see which driver was being loaded |
| 17:23.39 | beewoolie-afk | I haven't seen anything about the control bits, yet. |
| 17:23.50 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: it is loading the spp. |
| 17:24.04 | prpplague | gotcha |
| 17:24.22 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: hehe. i forget i'm talking to someone who actually knows linux, hehe |
| 17:24.37 | beewoolie-afk | :-) |
| 17:24.50 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: i just checked mine with a parport dongle, my pin 15 is reading low |
| 17:24.52 | beewoolie-afk | vmaster: Do you have a register level reference for the parallel port? I haven |
| 17:24.57 | beewoolie-afk | haven't turned one up |
| 17:26.12 | vmaster | only what's on beyondlogic |
| 17:26.25 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: wait, are you taking into account that pin 15 is a NOT input? |
| 17:27.28 | vmaster | ah, and make sure you removed the lp module - i had all kinds of problems with that loaded, too |
| 17:27.34 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: That isn't the problem. If the pin reads 4.5V, it doesn't matter what the Vcc signal does. The pin will always read H. Now, it is possible that the bit is blown. |
| 17:27.41 | beewoolie-afk | vmaster: No lp module. |
| 17:27.51 | vmaster | ppdev? |
| 17:28.46 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: when i apply +5v to pin 15 i get a 0 back |
| 17:28.55 | beewoolie-afk | vmaster: I'm using ppdev. |
| 17:28.55 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: when i let it float i get a 1 |
| 17:29.01 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: ground i get a 1 |
| 17:29.45 | vmaster | ah, but isn't that what you expect from ttl? |
| 17:29.48 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: It always reads 1. |
| 17:30.26 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: and you are push 3.3v on to it? |
| 17:31.00 | vmaster | beewoolie-afk: try a wire between one of the data pins (2-9) and 15 |
| 17:31.14 | prpplague | vmaster: hehe thats was what i was typing |
| 17:31.17 | vmaster | that's what macraigor does to detect a real wiggler |
| 17:31.20 | vmaster | hehehe |
| 17:31.27 | beewoolie-afk | Hold on. |
| 17:31.43 | beewoolie-afk | I can detect that the cable is attached. That's done with a loopback in the db25 housing. |
| 17:31.50 | prpplague | i don't see anything on that schematic that would indicate that it would detect a 3.3v |
| 17:31.57 | beewoolie-afk | What I'm trying to do is detect the Vcc. |
| 17:32.12 | beewoolie-afk | The top of the schematic is the part I'm looking at. |
| 17:32.17 | beewoolie-afk | SENSE |
| 17:32.28 | vmaster | yeah, but that would show you if your nError works at all |
| 17:32.45 | beewoolie-afk | vmaster: I don't understand what you mean. |
| 17:33.14 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: you could set ping 2 high and see if you get a corresponding 0 on pin 15 |
| 17:34.02 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: yea i'm looking at the vcc sense, but it doesn't have any 3.3v buffers which would mean it would need +5v to work |
| 17:34.05 | beewoolie-afk | I don't undersfand that. |
| 17:34.24 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: 1 out on pin 2, wired to pin 15 , you should get a 0 |
| 17:34.31 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: Do you mean it has to drive +5 for the parallel port to detect it? |
| 17:34.36 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: yep |
| 17:34.36 | vmaster | yes |
| 17:34.43 | beewoolie-afk | I don't think that can work. |
| 17:34.47 | beewoolie-afk | Look at TDO. |
| 17:34.58 | beewoolie-afk | It is driven by one of the 245's buffers. |
| 17:35.10 | beewoolie-afk | Those devices are powered by the 3.3V of the target. |
| 17:35.22 | beewoolie-afk | So, the output of TDO is going to be about 3V. |
| 17:35.43 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: but it passes through the 74hc125 |
| 17:35.52 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: the vcc doesn't |
| 17:35.54 | beewoolie-afk | Oh, I meant that part. |
| 17:35.56 | beewoolie-afk | Yeah. |
| 17:36.04 | beewoolie-afk | So the output voltage is going to be the same. |
| 17:36.09 | beewoolie-afk | Approximately. |
| 17:36.41 | prpplague | hmm, i would disagree on the vcc sense |
| 17:36.50 | beewoolie-afk | How's that? |
| 17:37.17 | prpplague | the vcc sense doesn't pass through the 74hc125 there for it is not buffered to 3.3v |
| 17:37.25 | prpplague | its still at 5v |
| 17:37.31 | beewoolie-afk | Huh? |
| 17:37.38 | beewoolie-afk | The Vcc from the target is 3.3V. |
| 17:37.49 | beewoolie-afk | It is 3.09V at pin 15. |
| 17:37.56 | beewoolie-afk | I'm going to measure TDO... |
| 17:38.05 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: which brings up back to the point, you have to have 5v to drive the lpt port |
| 17:38.26 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: I don't think so, or this device won't work at all with a 3.3V target. |
| 17:38.44 | vmaster | mhh, i guess that's the magic of these buffers - all wigglers work that way |
| 17:39.35 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: the jtag interface would work, but not the vcc sense |
| 17:39.56 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: Because...? |
| 17:40.17 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: the vcc sense needs 5v to go low |
| 17:41.24 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: Hmm. TDO is about 2V at pin 13 of the db25. |
| 17:41.55 | beewoolie-afk | So, what you're saying is that the sense line is floating. If I put 5V on it, it will register a zero in the status register. |
| 17:42.04 | beewoolie-afk | Easy enought to test. |
| 17:45.13 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: Actually, we have it backwards. |
| 17:45.20 | beewoolie-afk | vmaster: It's what I was suspecting. |
| 17:45.36 | beewoolie-afk | The problem is that the pin 15 line is floating high. |
| 17:45.47 | beewoolie-afk | It reads as a 1 when nothing is connected. |
| 17:45.52 | beewoolie-afk | I need to ground it to read a zero. |
| 17:46.11 | beewoolie-afk | In other words, it won't work to detect Vcc because it always reads as Vcc is present. |
| 17:46.12 | vmaster | it's supposed to be inverted |
| 17:46.13 | beewoolie-afk | Oh, well. |
| 17:46.26 | vmaster | i.e. a ground should read 1, +5v should read 0 |
| 17:46.28 | beewoolie-afk | If I ground pin 15, I read a zero in the register. |
| 17:46.42 | beewoolie-afk | Doesn't. |
| 17:47.18 | beewoolie-afk | I'm not really worried, tho. At least I understand why. |
| 17:47.33 | beewoolie-afk | Perhaps this parallel port implementation is borked. |
| 17:47.43 | beewoolie-afk | What is more of a problem is that I cannot drive TMS. |
| 17:48.01 | beewoolie-afk | BTW, the output of this parallel port is 3.3V. |
| 17:48.35 | vmaster | heh, take it to a doctor |
| 17:49.01 | vmaster | anyway, guess that's why people try to avoid parallel port alltogether |
| 17:50.16 | beewoolie-afk | It's a laptop afterall. |
| 17:50.44 | vmaster | ok, then you're lucky to have a parallel port at all |
| 17:50.56 | vmaster | are you able to drive the other pins? tdi and tck? |
| 17:51.14 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: ohhhh, you left out the fact that it was a laptop |
| 17:51.29 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: most laptops don't have a fully compliant lpt |
| 17:51.30 | beewoolie-afk | Yeah. |
| 17:51.45 | beewoolie-afk | It looks like one of the resistors on the board may be an open circuit |
| 17:51.58 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: about 2 years i ago a did a series of tests with about 10 different laptops, none of them were 100% |
| 17:52.03 | beewoolie-afk | I'm not suprised that it isn't compliant |
| 17:52.22 | beewoolie-afk | Stil, I can drive all of the lines except for the tms |
| 17:52.27 | beewoolie-afk | I think it's the board, tho. |
| 17:53.43 | beewoolie-afk | Hmm. It's supposed to be 300Ohm, but I get nothing. Open circuit... |
| 17:54.24 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: which resistor? |
| 17:54.42 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: still you can do a simple test |
| 17:54.42 | beewoolie-afk | They aren't numbered in the schematic. |
| 17:54.46 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: remove the dongle |
| 17:54.56 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: wire from pin 2 to pin 15 |
| 17:54.56 | beewoolie-afk | That's what I did, silly. |
| 17:55.04 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: ahh |
| 17:55.14 | beewoolie-afk | Remember, we're not working on SENSE anymore. |
| 17:55.19 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: oh |
| 17:55.23 | beewoolie-afk | This is the series resistor for TMS_IN |
| 17:55.51 | prpplague | ahh yea that would cause a problem |
| 17:55.59 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: didn't you just get this dongle? |
| 17:56.01 | beewoolie-afk | I have some 1%'s. I can solder one on and see if it helps. |
| 17:56.20 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: It's ka6sox's. |
| 17:56.27 | beewoolie-afk | He lent it to me last year. |
| 17:56.28 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: ahh |
| 17:56.40 | beewoolie-afk | I didn't end up using it because I didn't know it was supported by wince jtag. |
| 17:56.50 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: ahh |
| 17:56.51 | beewoolie-afk | I have another one, but it doesn't use fly leads. |
| 17:57.12 | beewoolie-afk | So, I could rig up an adapter, or I could see what happens with a 300Ohm resistor... |
| 17:57.28 | beewoolie-afk | It's kinda wierd, tho. |
| 17:57.40 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: yea the jtag dongle that ships with the lnode80 has 2x7 and 2x10 headers, and .1" spaced header for the fly leads |
| 17:58.15 | beewoolie-afk | Why would the resistor go like this? |
| 17:58.24 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: hehe, its weird looking back 5 years ago and not having a jtag adapter on my desk |
| 17:58.41 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: usually over voltage |
| 17:58.54 | beewoolie-afk | ESD? |
| 17:58.58 | prpplague | naw |
| 17:59.08 | prpplague | never saw esd kill a resistor |
| 17:59.11 | vmaster | more like wall-plug |
| 17:59.16 | beewoolie-afk | hmm. |
| 17:59.30 | beewoolie-afk | I cannot see how that could have happened |
| 17:59.42 | vmaster | not plug, outlet |
| 17:59.44 | beewoolie-afk | bbiab, going to solder a resistor |
| 18:00.11 | prpplague | ahh lpt is soooo much fun |
| 18:00.22 | prpplague | not as much as usb though |
| 18:01.35 | prpplague | vmaster: i've been experimenting with one of these for jtag - http://people.omnigroup.com/wiml/soft/pic/keyspan.html |
| 18:03.59 | vmaster | hmm, you want to bit-bang the ez-usb? |
| 18:07.04 | prpplague | vmaster: yea, bit banging the jtag via the ez-usb |
| 18:07.18 | prpplague | vmaster: got some pretty good speed compared to parport |
| 18:10.55 | beewoolie-afk | So, it looks like the resistor was borked. It had cracked in half. |
| 18:13.58 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: doh |
| 18:14.00 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: vmaster: looks like that was it |
| 18:14.22 | beewoolie-afk | Will a resistor break when it overvoltages? |
| 18:15.27 | vmaster | I've only seen one or two resistors after they had to take too much current, but those looked "burnt", they didn't break |
| 18:17.13 | beewoolie-afk | Why don't these jtag dongles support nTRST? There are plenty of parallel port data pins. Argh! |
| 18:17.38 | vmaster | you can live without nTRST, but debugging without nSRST isn't much fun |
| 18:19.22 | beewoolie-afk | vmaster: Sort of. I was reading in the docs for the IXP. There are some tricks you can pull with nTRST that you cannot perform without it. |
| 18:19.42 | beewoolie-afk | vmaster: Although, to be fair, those tricks require a reset as well as nTRST. |
| 18:19.59 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: the jtag dongle we have with the lnode80 supports nRST and nTRST |
| 18:20.24 | beewoolie-afk | this is your own design? |
| 18:21.38 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: yea, basically an extended version of the HG dongle |
| 18:23.23 | beewoolie-afk | Hey, I'm getting data! |
| 18:24.26 | prpplague | heheheh |
| 18:24.37 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: isn't it glorious when you get jtag working |
| 18:25.08 | beewoolie-afk | yipppeee! |
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| 18:40.01 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: There is definitely something fishy about the parallel port. |
| 18:40.11 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: I am unable to drive one of the data lines, now. |
| 18:40.32 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: The line that is used to detect whether or not the dongle is attached is now always 3.3V. |
| 18:41.40 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: hehe, sounds pretty typical for laptop lpt |
| 18:41.54 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: they aren't meant to drive much other than a standard printer |
| 18:42.59 | beewoolie-afk | You'd think it would be a simple enough thing to get working, tho. |
| 18:44.43 | prpplague | beewoolie-afk: hehe, you'd think |
| 18:45.53 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: OOPS. I was wrong. it still works. I forgot to toggle that bit. |
| 18:55.12 | prpplague | heheh |
| 19:20.02 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: I was looking over that schematic again because I realized that all we need is a pull-down on the VCC SENSE pin. |
| 19:20.27 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: Seems like the schematic, as is, has the 1K pulldown on the wrong side of the diode. |
| 19:20.44 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: But, then perhaps I don't understand what that pulldown is supposed to do. |
| 19:21.54 | beewoolie-afk | prpplague: With a 1K pulldown, it's gonna sink about 3ma from the target. that seems odd. |
| 19:22.02 | beewoolie-afk | vmaster: You still around? |
| 19:22.29 | beewoolie-afk | vmaster: I was wondering if you had an explanation for the 1K pulldown on the xlinix cable schematic. On the VCC sense line. |
| 19:27.43 | vmaster | sorry, no |
| 20:04.34 | beewoolie-afk | vmaster: So, do you think that the design may be flawed? Seems unlikely, but then it may work fine on PC parallel ports. |
| 20:04.51 | lennert | re |
| 20:05.41 | beewoolie-afk | lennert: hi lennert |
| 20:05.47 | lennert | beewoolie-afk: hullo |
| 20:05.49 | beewoolie-afk | I got the xilinx cable working. |
| 20:05.56 | beewoolie-afk | One of the resistors cracked. |
| 20:05.58 | lennert | which one, the parallel cable 3? |
| 20:06.03 | beewoolie-afk | Yep. |
| 20:06.05 | lennert | ah |
| 20:06.12 | lennert | it works quite nicely here |
| 20:06.25 | beewoolie-afk | With a cracked resistor? |
| 20:06.28 | lennert | when i got it working under linux i got rid of my windows box |
| 20:06.39 | lennert | i don't think i have any cracked resistors on mine :) |
| 20:06.49 | beewoolie-afk | There is a wierdness, tho. |
| 20:06.54 | beewoolie-afk | I cannot use the Vcc sense line. |
| 20:07.10 | lennert | how do you mean |
| 20:07.11 | beewoolie-afk | It looks like the problem is that the status input line on the serial port is floating high. |
| 20:07.12 | lennert | ? |
| 20:07.22 | lennert | serial port? |
| 20:07.31 | beewoolie-afk | Parallel :-) |
| 20:07.46 | lennert | hum |
| 20:07.52 | beewoolie-afk | I was wondering if anyone could explain the schematic. |
| 20:08.01 | lennert | what's the link again? |
| 20:08.03 | beewoolie-afk | There is a pull down for that line, but it's behind a diode. |
| 20:08.04 | beewoolie-afk | ... |
| 20:08.26 | beewoolie-afk | http://toolbox.xilinx.com/docsan/xilinx4/data/docs/pac/appendixb.html |
| 20:08.40 | lennert | pin 15? |
| 20:10.23 | beewoolie-afk | Yeah. |
| 20:10.56 | beewoolie-afk | The line floats to about 4.5V from the LAPTOP. I'm using a laptop. |
| 20:11.27 | lennert | you're measuring pin 15 on the laptop? |
| 20:11.33 | beewoolie-afk | Yeah. |
| 20:11.34 | lennert | (without the cable connected?) |
| 20:11.39 | beewoolie-afk | Right. |
| 20:12.08 | lennert | what gnd are you using? the connector edge? |
| 20:12.08 | beewoolie-afk | Well, maybe I didn't test pin 15 that way. |
| 20:12.35 | beewoolie-afk | What connector edge? Do you mean the shell of the db25? |
| 20:12.39 | lennert | yeah |
| 20:13.03 | beewoolie-afk | Yeah. The sheild ground. |
| 20:13.10 | beewoolie-afk | shield. :-( |
| 20:13.51 | beewoolie-afk | Due to the diode, there isn't anything else that could be powering up pin 15. |
| 20:14.09 | beewoolie-afk | When the target is powered down. |
| 20:14.29 | beewoolie-afk | I've measured one side of the diode at 0 and the parallel port side at 4V. |
| 20:14.39 | beewoolie-afk | Target disconnected and powered down. |
| 20:15.36 | lennert | but you said you had the cable disconnected? |
| 20:15.46 | lennert | or do you have the parallel cable connected but not plugged in to the target? |
| 20:16.20 | beewoolie-afk | right. I don't think I've measured pin 15 at the laptop... let me do that. |
| 20:16.59 | beewoolie-afk | 3.3v |
| 20:21.22 | lennert | so the cable is pulling it up, hm? |
| 20:21.53 | lennert | odd, there's no power coming from the parallel port (if i look at the schematic) |
| 20:22.07 | lennert | (the cable has no external power supply, right?) |
| 20:22.23 | beewoolie-afk | Right. Wrong. |
| 20:22.27 | beewoolie-afk | Wait... |
| 20:23.29 | beewoolie-afk | OK. |
| 20:23.36 | beewoolie-afk | The target is disconnected. |
| 20:23.44 | beewoolie-afk | I am getting 4.7on pin 15. |
| 20:23.55 | beewoolie-afk | At the right side of the diode, I get 2.5V. |
| 20:24.41 | beewoolie-afk | They don't say which ground is used for the chips. |
| 20:24.56 | beewoolie-afk | I believe it is the target ground which is floating. |
| 20:25.30 | lennert | the ground is connected to jtag pin 2 |
| 20:25.40 | lennert | as well as parallel pin 20/25 |
| 20:25.45 | lennert | this schematic is kind of unclear |
| 20:25.54 | beewoolie-afk | I don't think so. |
| 20:26.08 | beewoolie-afk | I've checked for continuity and there isn't any. |
| 20:26.15 | beewoolie-afk | The grounds are separate. |
| 20:26.39 | lennert | the schematic is wrong then |
| 20:26.57 | lennert | it clearly shows both parallel pin 20/25 and jtag pin 2 connected to the same ground |
| 20:27.10 | lennert | you can only guess what ground U1, U2 and the capacitors are using |
| 20:27.13 | beewoolie-afk | Well, the PDF I'm using has a different symbol for the shield ground from the target ground. |
| 20:27.19 | beewoolie-afk | Let me look at that web page again... |
| 20:27.21 | lennert | there is the shield ground, yeah |
| 20:27.30 | lennert | but parallel pin 20/25 are connected to the 'regular' ground |
| 20:28.09 | beewoolie-afk | Ok. I see where it's wrong. |
| 20:28.22 | beewoolie-afk | On my cable, 20, 25, and the shield are connected. |
| 20:28.36 | beewoolie-afk | They don't connect to the target ground. |
| 20:28.43 | beewoolie-afk | the schematic is definitely wrong. |
| 20:29.45 | beewoolie-afk | lennert: OK. I'm wrong again. |
| 20:29.55 | lennert | odd |
| 20:29.59 | lennert | i wonder what they'd connect the shield to |
| 20:30.09 | beewoolie-afk | The schematic is correct. They bring both grounds to the board, but I don't know what the shield is for. |
| 20:30.21 | beewoolie-afk | Let's go back, then. |
| 20:30.35 | beewoolie-afk | Pin 15 is still floating high. |
| 20:31.37 | beewoolie-afk | Let me see what happens when I toggle prog |
| 20:32.43 | beewoolie-afk | All that does is prevent TDO from being read. |
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| 20:34.36 | beewoolie-afk | lennert: Well, I just don't get it. When I disconnect the target and read TDO, I get 1's which means that pin 2 of U2 is high. |
| 20:35.55 | beewoolie-afk | Pin3 of U1 should be high impedence when the nOE is high. |
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| 20:40.43 | lennert | i think my cable is much simpler than this one |
| 20:40.56 | beewoolie-afk | :-) |
| 20:41.12 | beewoolie-afk | Turns out that this isn't critical. |
| 20:41.22 | lennert | sorry |
| 20:41.29 | lennert | my other half just keeps blathering |
| 20:41.36 | lennert | we just came back from visiting granny |
| 20:41.39 | beewoolie-afk | NP. I was just wondering if someone who knows more than I do had an idea. |
| 20:41.42 | lennert | i can't concentrate at all |
| 20:41.43 | beewoolie-afk | Nice. |
| 20:41.48 | beewoolie-afk | How's GMa |
| 20:41.50 | lennert | five more minutes and i'll throw her out of the window |
| 20:41.56 | beewoolie-afk | Gma? |
| 20:42.17 | lennert | no, other half :) |
| 20:42.31 | lennert | she says "okay, i'll leave you alone now" because she knows that that'll get her my attention |
| 20:42.41 | beewoolie-afk | :-) |
| 20:42.41 | lennert | and then she starts yapping about totally unrelated stuff |
| 20:42.48 | lennert | and then five minutes later she says that again |
| 20:42.55 | lennert | urgh |
| 20:43.14 | lennert | and now she walked away angry |
| 20:43.14 | lennert | oh well |
| 20:43.27 | beewoolie-afk | Is this grandma, or the other half? |
| 20:43.34 | lennert | other half, still :) |
| 20:43.37 | lennert | grandma lives elsewher |
| 20:43.38 | beewoolie-afk | Ah. |
| 20:44.00 | lennert | we visited grandma for russian orthodox christmas |
| 20:44.12 | lennert | we'll be partying again soon for russian orthodox new year |
| 20:44.30 | lennert | but other half doesn't understand that after many hours of social nonsense, i want some time to work/study :) |
| 20:47.44 | lennert | 21:34 < beewoolie-afk> lennert: Well, I just don't get it. When I disconnect |
| 20:47.44 | lennert | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:47.44 | lennert | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:48.01 | beewoolie-afk | Hmm? |
| 20:48.16 | lennert | that's what you wrote |
| 20:48.29 | beewoolie-afk | Right. |
| 20:48.33 | lennert | but pin 2 of u2 is an input? |
| 20:48.51 | lennert | so just means that u1 isn't pulling it down |
| 20:48.56 | lennert | (u1 ping 3) |
| 20:48.59 | lennert | pin |
| 20:49.24 | beewoolie-afk | Hang on... |
| 20:49.33 | lennert | i think i just don't understand what it is that you are trying to say :-( |
| 20:50.35 | lennert | i have the digilent parallel jtag cable |
| 20:50.42 | lennert | from what i can tell it's really really simple |
| 20:50.59 | beewoolie-afk | I have one of those too, but it doesn't have fly leads. |
| 20:51.03 | lennert | indeed |
| 20:51.10 | beewoolie-afk | What I was trying to say is this. |
| 20:51.34 | beewoolie-afk | I measure the voltage at the right side of the diode closest to pin 15. |
| 20:51.38 | beewoolie-afk | I get 2.5 V. |
| 20:51.44 | lennert | okay |
| 20:51.52 | lennert | so jtag pin 1 (Vcc) is 2.5V .. |
| 20:52.08 | beewoolie-afk | But the target is disconnected. |
| 20:52.19 | lennert | well |
| 20:52.30 | lennert | U1 and U2 are likely CMOS |
| 20:52.40 | lennert | CMOS components can work even if Vcc isn't connected |
| 20:53.08 | lennert | it can be that one of the data lines is powering them up |
| 20:53.09 | beewoolie-afk | Where do they get power? |
| 20:53.09 | beewoolie-afk | Ah. That makes sense. |
| 20:53.09 | lennert | since they'll have EMP diodes |
| 20:53.14 | lennert | or what's that called in english |
| 20:53.23 | beewoolie-afk | I don't know EMP. |
| 20:53.25 | lennert | in fact, cmos components without vcc connected can work just fine |
| 20:53.37 | beewoolie-afk | Hmm. That's new to me. |
| 20:53.37 | lennert | static discharge protection |
| 20:53.47 | beewoolie-afk | ESD. |
| 20:53.48 | lennert | diode from the data line to Vcc |
| 20:53.49 | lennert | right |
| 20:53.54 | beewoolie-afk | I see. |
| 20:53.58 | lennert | that's likely to be powering Vcc up |
| 20:54.09 | beewoolie-afk | OK. So, the other question is this. |
| 20:54.13 | lennert | yes |
| 20:54.17 | beewoolie-afk | Why is the pulldown on the right side of the diode? |
| 20:54.34 | beewoolie-afk | Wouldn't it make more sense to put it on the other side? |
| 20:54.41 | beewoolie-afk | Moreover, why is it so small? |
| 20:55.04 | lennert | the 1K? |
| 20:55.06 | lennert | hmmm |
| 20:55.56 | beewoolie-afk | Yeah. |
| 20:57.24 | lennert | actually, i don't know |
| 20:57.28 | lennert | it doesn't make much sense to me |
| 20:57.40 | lennert | they're just putting the resistor straight across their supply |
| 20:58.00 | lennert | would make more sense if it was a cap, but they already have one on the right |
| 20:58.27 | lennert | let me ask someone |
| 20:58.32 | beewoolie-afk | maybe it is to drain the cap |
| 20:59.21 | lennert | could be, but i'd use a bigger one |
| 20:59.51 | lennert | (and the buffers could even have enough internal resistance themselves) |
| 21:00.08 | beewoolie-afk | That's what I'm saying. Moreover, it would work just as well on the other side of the diode. |
| 21:01.18 | lennert | people i asked also think it's to discharge the 10nF cap |
| 21:05.09 | lennert | beewoolie-afk: http://www.artofelectronics.com/quotes/quotel.htm |
| 21:08.17 | beewoolie-afk | Cool. |
| 21:08.39 | lennert | still somewhat puzzled about the 1k resistor |
| 21:09.51 | lennert | i don't see why they put the 100pF caps on TDI/TMS tbh |
| 21:10.18 | beewoolie-afk | Imedence matching? |
| 21:10.42 | beewoolie-afk | That, or it makes the signaling smoother. |
| 21:11.52 | lennert | i assume the 100ohm series resistors are in case someone accidentally hooks up an input as output |
| 21:12.52 | beewoolie-afk | I think that's also for impedence matching. IIRC, I read something about that somewhere. I don't know much about that, tho. |
| 21:13.10 | beewoolie-afk | The IO lines to the target are supposed to be 100Ohm |
| 21:15.26 | lennert | neither here |
| 21:15.34 | lennert | impedance is a vague area to me still :-/ |
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| 21:36.25 | lennert | beewoolie-afk: ping |
| 21:36.47 | lennert | beewoolie-afk: having the resistor on the left would prevent a full discharge of the cap |
| 21:37.03 | lennert | beewoolie-afk: due to the 'voltage barrier' in the diode |
| 21:37.19 | lennert | what's that called in english.. 'drempelspanning' |
| 21:37.26 | lennert | barrier voltage? |
| 21:40.16 | lennert | "ON voltage" |
| 21:40.20 | lennert | whatever |
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| 22:39.58 | beewoolie-afk | lennert: I wondered about that. |
| 22:40.37 | beewoolie-afk | lennert: it's called the band-gap, or the ... I I forget. |
| 22:42.03 | beewoolie-afk | lennert: Thanks for the chat on this. It helps me remember all of those things I once learned. |
| 22:43.11 | lennert | no idea what it's called |
| 22:43.21 | lennert | np, i like looking at stuff like this |
| 22:43.30 | lennert | like taking stuff apart and such |
| 22:44.47 | beewoolie-afk | Gotta go to a meeting... |
| 22:44.48 | beewoolie-afk | ttfn |
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