| 00:24.45 | *** join/#openjtag bullet (n=bullet@75.58.203.62.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 00:27.44 | [g2] | I've got a quad T1 card with a PCI bridge |
| 00:28.08 | [g2] | the chip _may_ be quad t1/e1/j1 |
| 00:28.19 | lennert | what does the card let you do? |
| 00:28.34 | lennert | do you have raw access to the D channel? |
| 00:28.40 | lennert | (i.e. can you speak LAPD?) |
| 00:28.46 | [g2] | D channel ? |
| 00:29.19 | lennert | T1 is (iirc) 23 Bearer channels (64kbit/s) and 1 D channel (16kbit/s) for signaling |
| 00:29.33 | [g2] | you're confusing it with E1 |
| 00:29.37 | lennert | no |
| 00:29.41 | lennert | E1 has 30 bearer channels |
| 00:29.48 | [g2] | T1 is 24 channels |
| 00:30.01 | lennert | one of which is reserved |
| 00:30.03 | [g2] | There's some signalling in the 8Kbits |
| 00:30.12 | [g2] | there are none reserved in clear channel |
| 00:30.50 | [g2] | There's framing and signalling in the 8K bits sequence |
| 00:30.52 | lennert | hmmok |
| 00:30.58 | [g2] | it's 193 bits every 8K |
| 00:31.00 | lennert | wikipedia is wrong then :) |
| 00:31.04 | [g2] | well 8K a second |
| 00:31.20 | [g2] | 8K*193 = 1544400 |
| 00:31.21 | lennert | yeah, 8000 times 193 |
| 00:31.30 | lennert | 193 = 24 * 8 + 1 |
| 00:31.39 | [g2] | exactly |
| 00:31.50 | [g2] | then there ESF and D4 signalling |
| 00:31.59 | lennert | extended superframe |
| 00:32.01 | [g2] | D4 being the older |
| 00:32.02 | lennert | haven't heard of D4 |
| 00:32.32 | [g2] | I'd imagine ESF clear channel is used 99.99% of the time now |
| 00:32.49 | [g2] | the other big item is the T1 clocking |
| 00:33.43 | [g2] | I think the C company sells 8 port T1 broadband routers for like 3K |
| 00:34.15 | lennert | the wikipedia page on ISDN says it uses 23 B channels plus one D channel |
| 00:34.18 | lennert | (when run over T1) |
| 00:34.25 | lennert | what else can you run over T1? SS7? |
| 00:34.35 | [g2] | I can bolt 2 of the quad T1/PCIs onto a Loft and having a broadband router |
| 00:34.48 | [g2] | yes ISDN is it's own animal |
| 00:35.09 | [g2] | they are probably running the signalling in one of the channels |
| 00:35.22 | lennert | yeah |
| 00:35.31 | lennert | but the D channel on PRI ISDN is still only 16kbit/s (i think) |
| 00:35.43 | [g2] | yes... the cobwebs clear a little and the D channel comes back and the B channels are the bearer channels (data) |
| 00:36.14 | lennert | E1 has 30 B channels and one D channel |
| 00:36.35 | lennert | E1 is 8000 times per second (32 timeslot times 8 bits) |
| 00:36.39 | [g2] | Data usually runs with HDLC encoding in 7 or 8 bits (8 bits in clear channel) |
| 00:36.57 | [g2] | yes I'm familiar with E1 |
| 00:37.21 | [g2] | a cell system I worked on for 4-5 years had an Alcatel switch and the A-Interface |
| 00:37.48 | lennert | HDLC? |
| 00:37.57 | [g2] | 16 and sometimes 31 are the signalling channels |
| 00:37.57 | lennert | it says here the D channel runs Q.921 (LAPD) |
| 00:38.19 | lennert | yeah, TS0 is framing, and TS16 is mentioned as signalling timeslot |
| 00:39.00 | lennert | ah |
| 00:39.09 | lennert | LAPD is a cousin of HDLC |
| 00:39.47 | [g2] | the IXP425 has HDLC on chip |
| 00:40.06 | lennert | intewesting |
| 00:40.30 | [g2] | there's bit stuffing and de-stuffing |
| 00:40.42 | [g2] | it can be done in an FPGA pretty easily |
| 00:41.03 | [g2] | especially at the rate we are talking about |
| 00:41.38 | [g2] | But the T1/E1 framer/deframer are quite important |
| 00:41.54 | lennert | yeah |
| 00:42.03 | lennert | E1 is 2Mb/s |
| 00:42.15 | lennert | HDB3 looks easy enough to implement too |
| 00:44.19 | [g2] | any idea what the cheapest hardcore costs in a Xilinx ? |
| 00:45.42 | lennert | hardcore |
| 00:45.44 | lennert | you mean a ppc? |
| 00:46.00 | lennert | what exactly do you mean? |
| 00:46.03 | lennert | you want to buy IP or something? |
| 00:47.16 | [g2] | yeah PPC |
| 00:47.34 | [g2] | The cheapest Virtex |
| 00:47.42 | [g2] | or is V4 Pro |
| 00:47.45 | lennert | xc2vp2 doesn't have a ppc, right? |
| 00:48.47 | lennert | xc2vp4 has 1 ppc |
| 00:49.43 | lennert | avnet sells XC4VP4-5FG256s in quantities of 90 for $113 each |
| 00:49.44 | [g2] | the V4s are probably cheaper no ? |
| 00:49.55 | lennert | sorry, XC2VP4-5FG256s |
| 00:50.04 | lennert | that's a 16x16 BGA package though |
| 00:50.09 | lennert | hmmm |
| 00:51.04 | lennert | xc4vfx12 is the smallest virtex 4 with a PPC |
| 00:51.36 | [g2] | lennert you know about these guys right ? |
| 00:51.38 | lennert | avnet has those for $157 in single quantities |
| 00:51.54 | [g2] | http://suzaku-en.atmark-techno.com |
| 00:51.54 | lennert | that'll get you a XC4VFX12-10SF363CES |
| 00:51.57 | lennert | [g2]: which guys? |
| 00:52.29 | [g2] | Suzaku |
| 00:52.49 | lennert | yeah |
| 00:52.56 | lennert | what do they cost though? |
| 00:53.21 | [g2] | I think they were only $350 1.5-2 years ago |
| 00:53.22 | lennert | the suzaku v2pro board indeed has the XC2VP4-FG256 |
| 00:53.44 | lennert | 'only $350'? :) i can get the digilent xc2vp30 board for $299! |
| 00:54.38 | [g2] | well this was a couple years ago and that's the commercial pricing which is like 1600 for your board correct ? |
| 00:55.19 | lennert | true.. $1599 |
| 00:55.48 | [g2] | it's _really_ important to be aware of educational discounts because they _are_ real too |
| 00:56.02 | [g2] | but it's not really fair to compare different programs |
| 00:57.18 | lennert | you're right |
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| 01:14.13 | lennert | it should be possible to do AMI/HDB3 even with the spartan3 board and half a dozen external components |
| 01:18.57 | [g2] | yeah AMI/B8ZS are the two major formats iirc |
| 01:20.27 | lennert | B8ZS for T1, HDB3 for E1 |
| 01:20.36 | lennert | AMI for BRI |
| 01:20.39 | lennert | acronym overload |
| 01:36.15 | [g2] | B8ZS is clear channel for T1 |
| 01:36.33 | [g2] | AMI is robbed-bit or 7-bit iirc |
| 01:38.47 | lennert | AMI is clear for BRI IIRC |
| 01:48.12 | [g2] | I think most of ISDN is clear |
| 01:51.55 | lennert | yeah |
| 01:52.10 | lennert | T-carrier wasn't but now apparently is |
| 01:52.36 | lennert | ok, so what is a good BRI ISDN card for linux? |
| 01:52.43 | lennert | i'm not looking for a Terminal Adapter |
| 01:53.05 | lennert | but something that gives access to the entire gamut of I.430 capabilities |
| 02:32.27 | [g2] | dunno |
| 02:39.41 | lennert | okay |
| 02:40.04 | lennert | now i need a way of figuring out whether an incoming call is rejected by the exchange or the local equipment |
| 02:40.14 | lennert | what is the easiest way of sniffing the BRI? :) |
| 02:43.24 | [g2] | is it brought in on a T1 ? |
| 02:45.57 | lennert | on an E1 |
| 02:46.06 | lennert | hmm no, sorry |
| 02:46.10 | lennert | there is an incoming E1 |
| 02:46.20 | lennert | and there is also a regular incoming BRI (2xB+D) |
| 02:46.27 | lennert | and the modem is on the BRI |
| 02:55.57 | lennert | well |
| 02:56.12 | lennert | i think the people here want me to build it |
| 02:56.16 | lennert | i.e. an fpga-based BRI interface |
| 02:56.44 | lennert | shudder |
| 02:56.50 | lennert | am i going to take this job or let it pass :P |
| 03:01.13 | lennert | 4AM now.. hard to make decisions |
| 03:10.08 | bullet | 4PM now.. :) |
| 03:11.11 | lennert | 4:11 |
| 03:11.29 | lennert | bullet: where are you, in .ch? |
| 03:11.51 | bullet | yah, switzerland |
| 03:14.14 | bullet | you asking where exactly from? |
| 03:20.14 | lennert | the Netherlands |
| 03:20.19 | lennert | oh, sorry |
| 03:20.25 | lennert | no, just wondering if you were really from .ch |
| 03:20.35 | lennert | as.. it's 4:20AM here, and you say it's 4PM there |
| 03:20.41 | lennert | so you should be in australia or something :) |
| 03:21.00 | bullet | hehe |
| 03:21.17 | bullet | lol, i mixed AM/PM |
| 03:21.39 | bullet | well, we don't normally use am/pm, so pardon me |
| 03:29.07 | lennert | yeah |
| 03:29.10 | lennert | we don't really use am/pm either |
| 03:30.54 | bullet | is ISDN/BRI commonly used in nl? (it is down here) |
| 03:31.10 | lennert | but a lot of american folk use am/pm so i got used to it |
| 03:31.45 | lennert | i don't see a lot of isdn here in .nl |
| 03:31.54 | lennert | at least, consumers don't |
| 03:32.10 | lennert | company pbx'es usually have PRIs |
| 03:32.21 | lennert | most consumers are still on good ole' POTS |
| 03:32.29 | lennert | i think .nl might be a bit of an exception |
| 03:32.41 | lennert | in .de, i think ISDN is also more popular than it is in .nl |
| 03:32.57 | bullet | possible. but it's "dying" slowly |
| 03:33.33 | lennert | dying where, in .de ? |
| 03:33.54 | bullet | yeah. because of adsl/voip/mobile/... |
| 03:34.02 | lennert | now that i've looked into it, it just looks better than POTS in every possible way |
| 03:34.05 | lennert | oh... |
| 03:34.08 | bullet | at least, the market stopped growing a while ago |
| 03:34.11 | lennert | i thought people were converting back from isdn to pots! |
| 03:34.22 | bullet | yeah, that too |
| 03:34.27 | lennert | damn, that's a shame |
| 03:34.39 | lennert | isdn is just sweet(tm) |
| 03:34.47 | lennert | doable with a handful of components |
| 03:34.55 | bullet | yeah, it is. i actually have isdn :) |
| 03:35.09 | lennert | i don't |
| 03:35.16 | lennert | and it's kind of hard to convert my pots line since i have adsll |
| 03:35.21 | lennert | i first have to get adsl disabled |
| 03:35.24 | lennert | then convert from pots to isdn |
| 03:35.28 | bullet | ugh |
| 03:35.30 | lennert | then get adsl re-enabled |
| 03:35.36 | lennert | or at least, that's what i've been told |
| 03:35.44 | lennert | i can't live without my adsl ;p |
| 03:36.02 | bullet | in .ch, it's even wors. you need two different modems for pots/isdn adsl |
| 03:36.12 | lennert | i think it's the same here |
| 03:36.13 | bullet | annex-a vs. annex-b |
| 03:36.23 | lennert | (but i'm not sure) |
| 03:36.27 | bullet | in germany, it's all annex-a, i think |
| 03:36.29 | lennert | so i'd have to change my modem as well.. |
| 03:36.52 | lennert | at least, when you sign up for adsl here, they ask if you have pots or isdn |
| 03:36.55 | bullet | hmm, no, it's annex-b |
| 03:37.07 | lennert | and then mention that if you get it wrong, it won't work, or something |
| 03:38.27 | lennert | http://zylamp.zyxel.nl/news/press.php?SN=7 |
| 03:38.30 | lennert | i think that's the one i have |
| 03:38.32 | lennert | and it's annex a |
| 03:38.41 | lennert | hmm, wrong page |
| 03:39.30 | lennert | can't find it now |
| 03:41.48 | bullet | well, that modem could be using a ti ar7 chip, which does both, afaik |
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