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| 08:50.31 | *** join/#openjtag JoeLlama (n=snork@c-24-130-92-64.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 08:50.40 | JoeLlama | Hi :) |
| 09:00.21 | ka6sox-away | hi |
| 09:03.44 | JoeLlama | hey :) |
| 09:03.49 | JoeLlama | are you busy? |
| 09:03.54 | JoeLlama | I'm bored and can't sleep.. |
| 09:03.59 | JoeLlama | I wanna know about jtag more. |
| 09:04.28 | ka6sox-away | kinda busy..working on my monotone and cvs issues... |
| 09:05.18 | JoeLlama | oh ok... |
| 09:05.23 | JoeLlama | what's a monotone and cvs? |
| 09:05.42 | ka6sox-away | content management systems for developers |
| 09:05.48 | JoeLlama | oh :) |
| 09:05.50 | JoeLlama | neat.. |
| 09:05.55 | ka6sox-away | ya |
| 09:05.57 | JoeLlama | well I wanna get a jtag thingy |
| 09:06.02 | JoeLlama | for AVR |
| 09:06.10 | JoeLlama | jtag is jtag right? |
| 09:06.13 | JoeLlama | for any processor? |
| 09:06.17 | ka6sox-away | there are plenty of cheap units out there. |
| 09:06.26 | ka6sox-away | and you can homebrew one for about $12 |
| 09:06.27 | dyoung | Unless its that other JTAG. |
| 09:06.41 | dyoung | what the heck was it called? The MIPS one? |
| 09:06.44 | JoeLlama | oh I don't want that "other" jtag |
| 09:06.53 | JoeLlama | oh.. nope I do avr right now. |
| 09:06.56 | JoeLlama | ATmega |
| 09:06.56 | dyoung | the signals should be the same though. |
| 09:07.04 | JoeLlama | do you have the url for the home brew one? |
| 09:07.07 | ka6sox-away | eJTAG |
| 09:07.09 | dyoung | I'm using the $19 cable from Digilent. |
| 09:07.10 | JoeLlama | I wanna also do MSP-430 |
| 09:07.14 | JoeLlama | that chip rox |
| 09:10.05 | JoeLlama | http://www.digilentinc.com/ |
| 09:10.21 | dyoung | Yep. |
| 09:10.30 | JoeLlama | it's $24 now |
| 09:11.42 | JoeLlama | oh wait they have one for $12 |
| 09:11.43 | *** join/#openjtag dyoung (n=dyoung@nslu2-linux/dyoung) |
| 09:11.54 | JoeLlama | http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Cables.cfm |
| 09:11.57 | JoeLlama | JTAG3 |
| 09:11.59 | JoeLlama | what's that? |
| 09:12.02 | JoeLlama | I mean the 3? |
| 09:12.25 | JoeLlama | wow looks good :) heh |
| 09:12.34 | JoeLlama | these things used to be like 100 bux |
| 09:12.40 | JoeLlama | not the cable.. |
| 09:12.45 | JoeLlama | I mean JTAG |
| 09:12.57 | JoeLlama | that was about the cheapest I could find like a year or so ago. |
| 09:13.08 | dyoung | Its no speed demon. |
| 09:13.10 | JoeLlama | so like what can JTAG do for me... well I could google. |
| 09:13.17 | JoeLlama | ah.. |
| 09:13.22 | dyoung | JTAG is just the model name. |
| 09:13.30 | JoeLlama | they are both slow right? |
| 09:13.35 | JoeLlama | I mean both cables? |
| 09:13.41 | dyoung | Its a clone of the Xilinx-3 cable. |
| 09:13.43 | JoeLlama | you know, I'm old skool okay |
| 09:13.52 | JoeLlama | ah I see. |
| 09:14.06 | JoeLlama | I debug by sense of smell. |
| 09:14.07 | JoeLlama | <--- 46 |
| 09:14.12 | JoeLlama | using bit ports etc.. |
| 09:14.23 | dyoung | if youre using this with the OpenWinCE JTAG Tools; you'll define it as a DLC5. |
| 09:14.30 | JoeLlama | I even have a morse code algorithm that will report things like stack usage and stuff like that.. |
| 09:14.40 | JoeLlama | I use www.micrium.com RTOS a lot. |
| 09:15.03 | JoeLlama | well I would use this with ATmega series |
| 09:15.07 | ka6sox-away | how many people still can read morse? |
| 09:15.15 | ka6sox-away | (I can but at VERY low rates) |
| 09:15.26 | dyoung | .... .. |
| 09:16.20 | JoeLlama | yeah I can at low rates but I can't read it :( |
| 09:16.22 | ka6sox-away | .... . .... . |
| 09:16.24 | JoeLlama | I can hear it htought. |
| 09:16.53 | JoeLlama | when I use it with uCOS-II (an RTOS) it reports stack and memory usage and idle time.. etc. |
| 09:17.02 | JoeLlama | like 5 wpm but you can change the speed of course. |
| 09:18.54 | ka6sox-away | I did that once upon a time. |
| 09:19.07 | JoeLlama | it's a state machine :) |
| 09:19.15 | JoeLlama | yeah I used to be a ham... |
| 09:19.24 | JoeLlama | peaked at about 20-23 wpm |
| 09:19.31 | JoeLlama | now I can barely do maybe 3 |
| 09:19.36 | JoeLlama | it's not like riding a bicycle :( |
| 09:23.39 | JoeLlama | hey if anyone here is into embedded systems we have an embedded systems channel on EFNet that is growing... usually around 50.... it's #nop |
| 09:30.19 | dyoung | I think most of the folk here are into embedded at some leve. |
| 09:30.20 | dyoung | l |
| 09:36.01 | JoeLlama | well EFNet #nop rox :) |
| 09:36.07 | JoeLlama | we talk a lot about avr (like right now) |
| 09:37.11 | JoeLlama | well ok enough spamming huh? :) heh |
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| 10:18.09 | JoeLlama | sleepy now night folks :) |
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| 10:18.59 | JoeLlama | eh... I'll hang out why not :) |
| 10:19.04 | JoeLlama | afk |
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| 19:06.59 | [g2] | ep1220, ping ! |
| 19:41.59 | ep1220 | [g2]: pong |
| 19:42.07 | [g2] | HEY! long time no see :) |
| 19:42.16 | ep1220 | yes |
| 19:42.26 | [g2] | I was on holiday for a couple weeks |
| 19:42.38 | [g2] | now.... back to the grind :) |
| 19:42.52 | ep1220 | Hope You had some nice days |
| 19:42.58 | [g2] | thx |
| 19:43.38 | ep1220 | Started selling Your X-Scale devices ? |
| 19:46.41 | [g2] | not yet... |
| 19:46.52 | [g2] | the prototypes are running a couple weeks late :( |
| 19:47.19 | [g2] | all is moving along well, it's just hard when you are ready :) |
| 19:47.26 | [g2] | hard to wait that is |
| 19:47.44 | ep1220 | I know this feeling :-) |
| 19:47.54 | [g2] | are you waiting for hw ? |
| 19:48.14 | ep1220 | Not at the moment |
| 19:48.42 | [g2] | I ping'ed you about building some hw :) |
| 19:49.08 | ep1220 | please explain |
| 19:49.39 | [g2] | my product name the "Loft" is underway and moving along |
| 19:49.52 | [g2] | I'm interested in a second/third little product |
| 19:50.01 | [g2] | these are the following: |
| 19:50.34 | [g2] | 1) A tiny usb device that connects to the serial and JTAG of the NSLU2 |
| 19:50.52 | [g2] | 2) a miniPCI to PCI breakout board/box |
| 19:51.05 | [g2] | I think you are well qualified for #1 :) |
| 19:51.54 | ep1220 | sounds interesting |
| 19:52.11 | ep1220 | You are thinking of an FTDI based design ? |
| 19:53.22 | [g2] | possibly.... |
| 19:53.31 | [g2] | I think there's a chip at spark fun too |
| 19:53.51 | [g2] | I don't know how big the FTDI chip is |
| 19:54.13 | [g2] | I'd like to have a tiny chip/board that fits inside the NSLU2 case |
| 19:54.41 | ep1220 | the chip is approx. 15x15mm (incl. pins) |
| 19:54.50 | [g2] | and ideally just have a miniUSB connector added to the back which support serial via USB and optionally JTAG |
| 19:54.59 | [g2] | does that make sense ? |
| 19:55.18 | ep1220 | yes. |
| 19:55.46 | [g2] | then this would slot in the "product line" between virgin-nslu2, serail-JTAG mod, Loft |
| 19:55.58 | [g2] | serial spelled properly of course :) |
| 19:57.17 | ep1220 | You want to sell JTAG as add-on option? |
| 19:57.35 | ka6sox-office | just leave the holes |
| 19:57.37 | [g2] | serial and JTAG |
| 19:57.41 | ka6sox-office | most people wont' do it. |
| 19:57.44 | ka6sox-office | but some will. |
| 19:58.00 | [g2] | it's six wires |
| 19:58.05 | [g2] | maybe a resister |
| 19:58.09 | [g2] | resistor |
| 19:58.15 | ka6sox-office | [g2] I would probably get 5 of them |
| 19:58.33 | ka6sox-office | so the cost is minimal to put the holes there. |
| 19:58.43 | ka6sox-office | let them put their *own* wires. |
| 19:59.03 | [g2] | the cost of adding the serial is pretty cheap and the JTAG almost comes for free |
| 19:59.12 | ka6sox-office | ya |
| 19:59.25 | [g2] | it'd be easier to just have one change mod for the rework person |
| 19:59.39 | [g2] | and there's a lot less pins |
| 19:59.45 | [g2] | than the memory upgrade |
| 20:01.05 | ka6sox-office | yes |
| 20:01.11 | [g2] | I was thinking somthing along these lines with a little tape and the 10/11/12 pins connected |
| 20:01.17 | [g2] | http://www.sparkfun.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cart=377029&cat=1&itemid=447& |
| 20:02.13 | [g2] | if I just do serial then I think I've got another option |
| 20:02.33 | [g2] | the digilentinc guys sell a level shifter for $12.95 |
| 20:02.58 | [g2] | I'd just bring out the 6 pins it uses |
| 20:03.11 | [g2] | and ppl could just plug straight in |
| 20:04.17 | [g2] | PMOD-RS232 on this page http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Peripheral.cfm |
| 20:04.20 | ep1220 | The link to sprakfun does not work - guess I can not access Your cart ;-) |
| 20:04.31 | ep1220 | s/sprakfun/sparkfun |
| 20:05.15 | [g2] | http://www.sparkfun.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cat=1&itemid=447& |
| 20:05.40 | [g2] | does that work better |
| 20:06.01 | ep1220 | yes |
| 20:08.55 | ep1220 | the Cp2103 has no JTAG engine. but for RS232 -> USB only it has several advantages over the FTDI |
| 20:10.29 | ep1220 | Something like the digilent shifter would be the cheapest. |
| 20:11.28 | ep1220 | You could use a 3,5mm stereo connector (like used on headphones) - or even a 2,5mm |
| 20:16.18 | [g2] | or just print out 4/6 pins an allow for a direct plug in |
| 20:17.31 | ep1220 | U mean: bring out the NSLU2-signals directly ? without any level shifters? |
| 20:18.17 | [g2] | yes.. because the digilent part has that onboard |
| 20:18.42 | [g2] | just 4 pins are really required... I've got a couple of the devices here but haven't plugged them in yet |
| 20:19.17 | ep1220 | This is also a possibility (and the cheapest, I guess) |
| 20:20.12 | [g2] | for straight serial yes |
| 20:22.27 | ep1220 | I guess, for JTAG the same strategy is cheapest as well. |
| 20:22.58 | ep1220 | You would allow people to choose a JTAG adapter |
| 20:23.25 | ep1220 | they can decide on performance vs. money they want to spend. |
| 20:24.29 | [g2] | hmmm.... |
| 20:24.30 | ep1220 | If You make a FTDI board specific to fit inside the NSLU, the market for this device is restricted to NSLU2 users |
| 20:25.11 | [g2] | well... there are issues with Voltage levels |
| 20:25.25 | [g2] | the serial isn't as bad |
| 20:27.08 | ep1220 | Why serial less bad than JTAG ? |
| 20:28.26 | ep1220 | Both are at 3.3V and unprotected |
| 20:29.46 | [g2] | because if you bork serial the chip isn't dead |
| 20:30.47 | ep1220 | IIRC the serial goes directly to the Xscale as well (?) |
| 20:31.54 | [g2] | yes |
| 20:32.14 | [g2] | both are bad |
| 20:36.33 | ep1220 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:37.10 | [g2] | ep1220, ka6sox-office will buy 5 :) |
| 20:37.52 | [g2] | I'd imagine 20-100+ ? |
| 20:40.02 | ep1220 | Might depend a lot on price. |
| 20:41.01 | ep1220 | Both the CP2103 and the FTDI need professional equipment for soldering |
| 20:41.14 | ka6sox-office | yes they do. |
| 20:42.18 | [g2] | I'd think we'd do a run of tiny boards |
| 20:42.31 | [g2] | it's be great practice |
| 20:42.37 | [g2] | and it's a tiny part count |
| 20:49.26 | dyoung-zzzz | Its a good excuse to make a reflow toaster. |
| 20:49.45 | ep1220 | [g2]: At 20-100 pieces, the cost for the boards will be clearly higher than what You see at sparkfun/digilent/ftdi |
| 20:49.48 | [g2] | heh.... |
| 20:50.43 | [g2] | I think ppl would pay $50-$75 for the full rework package |
| 20:50.55 | [g2] | which is basically the cost of a slug |
| 20:51.19 | [g2] | serial is really useful and JTAG is *really* important for ppl wanting to tweak boot loaders |
| 20:51.47 | [g2] | it's got to be really simple though |
| 20:52.02 | ep1220 | How much of this money goes to the reworkshop ? |
| 20:52.28 | [g2] | I'd guess $15-20 |
| 20:52.40 | [g2] | I haven't asked for a quote |
| 20:52.54 | [g2] | I was thinking doing batches of 10-20 at a shot |
| 20:52.59 | ep1220 | including the mods needed in the case ? |
| 20:53.22 | [g2] | depends on the mods |
| 20:53.46 | ep1220 | at least one hole for the USB |
| 20:54.24 | [g2] | I don't know how hard it is for that kind of mod in the plastic case... I'd defer to the mechanicals guy (which I don't have :) |
| 20:55.02 | dyoung-zzzz | I have a cordless drill. :-) |
| 20:55.31 | [g2] | shipping to that island costs too much... unless you're already doing the reflow :) |
| 20:56.26 | dyoung-zzzz | for that small a run, its going to be cheapest to just make a drilling jig for the candidate part. |
| 20:56.35 | dyoung-zzzz | Unless you want it punched to size. |
| 20:56.49 | dyoung-zzzz | in which case the tooling might be a few bucks |
| 20:57.23 | dyoung-zzzz | since its plastic though, it shouldnt be that bad; someone could make the punch/die out of a lathe bit. |
| 21:03.12 | [g2] | that'd be cool |
| 21:09.35 | ep1220 | [g2]: I make partslists for CP2103 and FTDI solution (tomorrow if possible, else on friday) |
| 21:09.44 | *** part/#openjtag odoc (i=odoc@is.borntobooze.de) |
| 21:10.14 | [g2] | ep1220 great |
| 21:10.38 | [g2] | we can look a preliminary BOMs (Bill-of-materials) and see if it makes any sense |
| 21:12.17 | dyoung-zzzz | Cool |
| 21:12.30 | ep1220 | yes, meet You tomorrow, bye. |
| 21:12.30 | dyoung-zzzz | you guys rock. |
| 21:12.35 | dyoung-zzzz | have a great night! |
| 21:12.41 | ep1220 | thx |
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| 21:35.37 | *** topic/#openjtag is This is the place to discuss development of Open JTAG tools and Bootloaders |
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