irclog2html for #openjtag on 20050610

`00:00.15`	`[g2]`	`FYI on the IXP420 this code runs from redboot`
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`00:00.19`	`[g2]`	`ARM GAS icache.S page 1`
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`06:14.43`	`*** join/#openjtag Jacmet (~jacmet@50C59F0E.flatrate.dk)`
`08:54.48`	`*** join/#openjtag ep1220 (~NN@gate.epatec.at)`
`09:46.28`	`*** join/#openjtag rwhitby-away (~rwhitby@rwhitby.nslu2-linux)`
`09:46.28`	`*** join/#openjtag ka6sox-office (~tking@ka6sox.nslu2-linux)`
`10:02.35`	`*** join/#openjtag [g2] (~g2@g2.nslu2-linux)`
`10:10.49`	`[g2]`	`ep1220-away, hope you got me e-mail about the success with redboot :)`
`11:01.55`	`ep1220`	`[g2]: You can open the bottle of champaign :-)`
`11:02.25`	`dyoung`	`Cool`
`11:02.30`	`dyoung`	`I can I open it for him?`
`11:02.38`	`ep1220`	`Your welcome`
`11:03.17`	`dyoung`	`I cant wait!`
`11:03.40`	`ep1220`	`Seems g2 is missing the party.`
`11:03.57`	`ep1220`	`He did help a lot`
`11:04.49`	`dyoung`	`what FT2232 device are you using? Did you make something special for your testing?>`
`11:05.04`	`ep1220`	`The FT2232C.`
`11:05.27`	`dyoung`	`Right, but are you using a devkit, or... ??`
`11:05.34`	`ep1220`	`I used an eval-module and added a voltage regulator and a pinheader`
`11:06.10`	`ep1220`	`no PCB. just an experimantal setup`
`11:06.13`	`dyoung`	`I'm chomping at the bit to get my hands on a FT2232.`
`11:06.36`	`ep1220`	`Donot know if ka6sox made progress on the PCB.`
`11:06.48`	`dyoung`	`and I'm pretty interested to see your re-written library functions too!`
`11:07.33`	`ep1220`	`A few are still missing (like set JTAG Clockrate)`
`11:07.40`	`ep1220`	`currently i run at 6MHz`
`11:07.54`	`dyoung`	`thats fast compared to what I'm used to.`
`11:08.27`	`ep1220`	`The actual rate is slower. the clock is gated.`
`11:08.45`	`ep1220`	`how fast it is depends on what You do.`
`11:09.05`	`ep1220`	`e.g. if You write to JTAG only, You can get to 5MHz effective rate`
`11:09.17`	`ep1220`	`If You have to read inbetween it will be a lot slower`
`11:11.50`	`ep1220`	`great`
`11:11.57`	`[g2]`	`CONGRATS!`
`11:12.04`	`ep1220`	`Thx.`
`11:12.09`	`ep1220`	`and Thx for Your help`
`11:12.17`	`ep1220`	`the 3 LEDs are on.`
`11:12.19`	`[g2]`	`hey NP`
`11:12.42`	`ep1220`	`I also added code to communicate with the CPU.`
`11:12.59`	`ep1220`	`am getting used to ARM asm ;-)`
`11:13.05`	`[g2]`	`me too!`
`11:15.17`	`dyoung`	`I feel so left out.`
`11:15.39`	`[g2]`	`It's not too late to join the party!`
`11:15.47`	`[g2]`	`it's really just beginning`
`11:17.06`	`dyoung`	`I need some hardware to be of any real use.`
`11:18.36`	`ep1220`	`we might have to target HW next, so more people can use it.`
`11:19.00`	`[g2]`	`ep1220, what are your plans in that regard ?`
`11:19.55`	`ep1220`	`the FTDI to me is a proof of concept thing`
`11:20.08`	`ep1220`	`and to see if a FPGA makes sense.`
`11:20.37`	`ep1220`	`my conclusion: ther are cases were a FPGA will be siginificantly faster`
`11:20.50`	`ep1220`	`so my interest primarily goes into this direction.`
`11:21.31`	`ep1220`	`For the FTDI I see several possibilities:`
`11:21.53`	`ep1220`	`Someone makes a complete print (as ka6sox seemed to plan)`
`11:23.37`	`ep1220`	`2) Someone makes a PCB using the eval-module (cheaper PCB)`
`11:24.20`	`ep1220`	`3) everyone buys the eval module and adds the needed parts on a protoyping-PCB`
`11:24.48`	`ep1220`	`the question is also which target VCC to support.`
`11:25.09`	`ep1220`	`3.3V only is easy, all others need moer parts`
`11:25.56`	`ep1220`	`not to forget: Some soldering on the NSLU2 is requires as well.`
`11:26.21`	`[g2]`	`I've got re-worked NSLU2s`
`11:26.43`	`[g2]`	`They even brought out the AC13 line`
`11:26.44`	`ep1220`	`Do you have RESETn and TRST on there as well ?`
`11:26.59`	`[g2]`	`I think so`
`11:27.21`	`ep1220`	`Good without these icache load will not work`
`11:27.23`	`[g2]`	`I've got 7 pins brought out on a header`
`11:28.06`	`[g2]`	`ok... I jut be missing TRST`
`11:28.17`	`ep1220`	`You need: TCK,TMS,TDI,TDO,TRST,RESETn and GND;`
`11:29.34`	`[g2]`	`I've got TCK, TMS, TDI, TDO, and RESTn(AC13/Pin 1 on the Q8) and GND`
`11:30.02`	`[g2]`	`I'm missing TRST but that could be brought out pretty easily`
`11:30.25`	`ep1220`	`adding TRST You must remove R135`
`11:31.07`	`ep1220`	`then bring out one pad of R135 and add a pull-down (TRST to GND)`
`11:32.41`	`[g2]`	`we just need to tell them exactly what to do and they can get it done`
`11:33.44`	`ep1220`	`how many pins does Your Jtag header have ?`
`11:34.10`	`[g2]`	`7 now, but they are wires brought to a header`
`11:34.59`	`ep1220`	`I used a 14pin "ARM standard" header.`
`11:35.11`	`ep1220`	`I'l post photos a little later`
`11:35.25`	`[g2]`	`I've got one of those on the Avila board`
`11:36.10`	`[g2]`	`The digilent didn't seem to work with that I think it may have been due to the TRST`
`11:36.37`	`ep1220`	`If it is an ARM standard: the layout is different then on the Digilent.`
`11:36.50`	`ep1220`	`Also the Digilent needs VCC from the target.`
`11:37.10`	`[g2]`	`The VCC pin is there. The Digilent does 2.8 to 5V`
`11:37.29`	`[g2]`	`and the VCC helps set that from my understanding`
`11:37.38`	`ep1220`	`yes.`
`11:38.02`	`[g2]`	`So with or without I get the same results`
`11:38.23`	`ep1220`	`on the gateworks web site the header seems to have 14-pin.`
`11:38.25`	`[g2]`	`the board just boots and runs when the Digilent JTAG cable is attached`
`11:38.42`	`[g2]`	`It does... I made a converter`
`11:39.03`	`ep1220`	`well, the digilent does not have a RESET line (at least mine)`
`11:39.17`	`ep1220`	`so the board will just boot up.`
`11:39.24`	`[g2]`	`right. That's PIN 12 right ?`
`11:39.45`	`ep1220`	`Pin12 on "standard" ARM`
`11:39.59`	`[g2]`	`I think the gateworks is the "standard" pinout`
`11:40.06`	`ep1220`	`very likely-`
`11:40.35`	`[g2]`	`When I first connected I had GND connected to that PIN and the board was held in reset :)`
`11:40.46`	`ep1220`	`heh`
`11:40.56`	`ep1220`	`no wonder :-)`
`11:41.26`	`[g2]`	`So I then knew I had the odds and evens right :)`
`11:41.59`	`ep1220`	`But anyway You should be able to do basic JTAG like read Device ID, once the CPU is out of reset`
`11:42.17`	`[g2]`	`I'm getting nothing`
`11:42.33`	`ep1220`	`MAybe You have TDI, TDO crossed ?`
`11:42.34`	`[g2]`	`however, the same cable attached to the S3 board works`
`11:43.07`	`[g2]`	`I'll double check again on the NSLU2`
`11:43.11`	`ep1220`	`e.g at FTDI chip the pin named TDI is the output (!!) while it is the input to the XScale`
`11:43.28`	`ep1220`	`Do not know how Digilent names its pins.`
`11:43.50`	`[g2]`	`hmmm`
`11:44.05`	`ep1220`	`if You now have TDI->TDI and TDO-> TDO amybe try TDI->TDO and TDO->TDI or the other way round`
`11:44.06`	`[g2]`	`I'll have to double check stuff and compare with the wiki`
`11:44.43`	`[g2]`	`nod. I think right now it's TDI->TDI and TDO->TDO`
`11:44.58`	`ep1220`	`YOu also could check the S3 schematic.`
`11:44.59`	`[g2]`	`I'll trace the lines back to the R`
`11:46.00`	`ep1220`	`I can confirm that the WIKI is correct.`
`11:46.35`	`[g2]`	`So TDI is R133`
`11:46.51`	`ep1220`	`yes`
`11:46.51`	`[g2]`	`The used the wiki as the instructions so it should match`
`11:47.05`	`ep1220`	`likely the header is correct.`
`11:47.36`	`ep1220`	`but You might not know for sure how Digilent chooses its names.`
`11:47.51`	`ep1220`	`It could be TDI is the ouput (so needs to go to R133)`
`11:48.15`	`ep1220`	`but also could be TDI is the input (as its name suggests) -> then it must go to TDO (R137)`
`11:49.02`	`[g2]`	`dyoung, jacques when you used the Digilent cable which way did you hookup those lines ?`
`11:49.15`	`[g2]`	`both dyoung and jacques used the Digilent cable with the slug`
`11:49.49`	`[g2]`	`jacques, has the honor of the the only needed slug CPR in the history of nslu2-linux`
`11:50.21`	`ep1220`	`CPR = ?`
`11:50.55`	`dyoung`	`I plugged the lines to the labelled stuff, ie: TDI-TDI TDO-TDO`
`11:50.56`	`[g2]`	`Cardio-Pulmonary Recessation (sp?)`
`11:52.01`	`dyoung`	`I think theres a 'u' in there someplce.`
`11:52.06`	`[g2]`	`when someone's heart stops and ppl push on it and do mouth-to-mouth to keep them alive`
`11:52.26`	`[g2]`	`www.dictionary.com is my friend`
`11:53.06`	`ep1220`	`I try this site, thx`
`11:53.27`	`[g2]`	`If I wasn't having so much fun with the slug/JTAG/etc... I'd put a spell checker front-end in xchat`
`11:54.19`	`ep1220`	`it says: Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation (CPR)`
`11:57.00`	`[g2]`	`that's the one!`
`11:57.02`	`[g2]`	`:)`
`11:59.00`	`[g2]`	`ep1220, does the FTDI also support hw flow-control on the RS-232 side ?`
`11:59.26`	`ep1220`	`It does, does the NSLU-2 ?`
`11:59.34`	`ep1220`	`also does Xon-Xoff`
`11:59.49`	`[g2]`	`then NSLU2 just has RX/TX`
`12:00.00`	`ep1220`	`Without any handshake serial is problematic on the FTDI.`
`12:00.28`	`ep1220`	`You could loose data in case the PC is busy and not-serving USB`
`12:01.06`	`ep1220`	`It can buffer 384 chars only.`
`12:01.19`	`[g2]`	`that should be plenty :)`
`12:01.50`	`ep1220`	`at 100 this is roughly 35ms.`
`12:01.57`	`ep1220`	`I meant 110Kbaud`
`12:02.03`	`[g2]`	`nod.`
`12:04.55`	`rwhitby-away`	`and rwhitby has the honour of causing the only needed slug CPR :-)`
`12:05.20`	`[g2]`	`:)`
`12:05.42`	`[g2]`	`mtdblock0 mtdblock4 whatever :)`
`12:06.10`	`[g2]`	`ep1220, have you met rwhitby ?`
`12:06.21`	`ep1220`	`not so far. Hi rwhitby !`
`12:06.29`	`rwhitby`	`hi ep1220`
`12:06.58`	`rwhitby`	`[g2]: actually it was offset 0, offset 0x50000000, whatever :-)`
`12:07.29`	`[g2]`	`rwhitby, ep1220 successfully loaded the mini I cache with and adapted FTDI board`
`12:07.49`	`[g2]`	`via JTAG and then enabled the processor and the program ran`
`12:07.52`	`rwhitby`	`caused by turning a padFF routine into a pad00 routine, which caused the partition table to have a final entry which started at offset 0`
`12:08.53`	`[g2]`	`it's kinda amazing that in 10 months there's only been 1 of those`
`12:09.13`	`[g2]`	`especially considering the bootloader's replaced`
`12:10.05`	`[g2]`	`jacques is special :)`
`12:10.17`	`jacques`	`special.... ed! bwahh ha ha haaa!`
`12:10.24`	`jacques`	`(someone had to say it)`
`12:10.49`	`[g2]`	`ep1220, so you put the code in the mini i cache and then you changed the PC to match ?`
`12:11.16`	`ep1220`	`g2: no. I put the Code at address 0, then left the CPU out of reset`
`12:11.34`	`dyoung`	`its true. I'm kind of suprised thata noone else has "accidentally" rendered their nslu2 unbootable to the point of requiring JTAG. All of mine were totally intentional.`
`12:12.06`	`ep1220`	`it found code in the cache and did not bother reading the FLASH`
`12:12.26`	`[g2]`	`ep1220, Ok... The cache lines were pointed to 0 then ?`
`12:12.27`	`rwhitby`	`dyoung: no-one else has been stupid enough to make such a programming error`
`12:13.00`	`ep1220`	`You load: ADDRESS, 8 Instrucions (== 1 cache line)`
`12:13.06`	`jacques`	`rwhitby, it could have happened to anyone :-)`
`12:13.17`	`[g2]`	`jacques, amen`
`12:13.17`	`ep1220`	`So you can put code at any address You like`
`12:13.35`	`rwhitby`	`jacques: we were flying by the seat of our pants at that stage ....`
`12:13.43`	`dyoung`	`jacques was so calm after the incient too. I remember exactly what he said.`
`12:13.43`	`[g2]`	`and this is the mini I cache or the full I cache ?`
`12:13.54`	`ep1220`	`mini IC`
`12:13.55`	`jacques`	`you do? I don't`
`12:14.00`	`rwhitby`	`dyoung: what did he say?`
`12:14.07`	`jacques`	`I recall that time rather fondly.`
`12:14.09`	`dyoung`	`"Why oh why?"`
`12:14.26`	`jacques`	`I said that? :-)`
`12:14.29`	`dyoung`	`"why oh why did you have to change (something) to (something else)"`
`12:14.36`	`jacques`	`lol`
`12:14.44`	`jacques`	`0xff to 0x00`
`12:14.45`	`dyoung`	`"I think it's broken"`
`12:14.57`	`rwhitby`	`I was out and about at the time, and had to apologise by IRC while driving ...`
`12:15.01`	`dyoung`	`me: "Why dont I just send you a cable...."`
`12:15.30`	`jacques`	`and for a few days I just osed my other slug - no muss no fuss`
`12:15.34`	`jacques`	`used`
`12:16.01`	`rwhitby`	`<PROTECTED>`
`12:16.14`	`[g2]`	`ep1220, the mini I cache is 2K bytes large right ?`
`12:16.18`	`jacques`	`no, I always buy at least two of my hack toys`
`12:16.27`	`jacques`	`for reasons like that`
`12:16.46`	`jacques`	`(well, when I can afford it - I couldn't afford two ipaqs for example, but I bought four tuxscreens)`
`12:18.08`	`ep1220`	`g2: I did not check. the rule is:`
`12:18.21`	`rwhitby`	`jacques: how many 770s are you going to buy?`
`12:18.31`	`jacques`	`rwhitby, two`
`12:18.32`	`ep1220`	`If the main IC is 32K the mini IC is 2K, if the main IC is 16K the mini IC is 1K`
`12:18.40`	`jacques`	`ASAHP`
`12:18.51`	`ep1220`	`so depends on the specific Xscale CPU`
`12:19.08`	`[g2]`	`The main IC is 32K iirc`
`12:20.26`	`ep1220`	`You can also load the main IC.`
`12:20.31`	`dyoung`	`I'm gonna get a couple of 770's too.`
`12:20.43`	`dyoung`	`I have a feeling thats the next Toy for me.`
`12:20.54`	`jacques`	`i really really want some`
`12:20.57`	`ep1220`	`Intel a bit cryptically says one has to be carefull with this; but no specifics`
`12:21.00`	`[g2]`	`ep1220, with LDIC ?`
`12:21.13`	`dyoung`	`Even if I have to ask my european or australian friend(s) to buy/ship one to me.`
`12:21.21`	`ep1220`	`g2: Yes, LDIC has 4 variants.`
`12:21.35`	`rwhitby`	`dyoung: what makes you think australia will get them early? we never get anything early`
`12:21.55`	`ep1220`	`g2: Invalidate one main IC cacheline, invalidate the entire mini IC load 1 main/mini IC cache Line`
`12:22.02`	`rwhitby`	`the only thing missing from the 770 for me is a keyboard. my treo650 has a keyboard, and it's much smaller`
`12:22.50`	`jacques`	`but, 800x480 :-)`
`12:23.05`	`rwhitby`	`dyoung: but if they do appear here first, you can be sure that I will get you a couple`
`12:23.11`	`[g2]`	`ep1220, I'd be way cool to be able to load APEX directly into the main IC`
`12:23.23`	`jacques`	`802.11b/g and BT`
`12:24.25`	`ep1220`	`g2: agree`
`12:25.07`	`ep1220`	`g2: but I will not copy the opcodes manually into a C array :-)`
`12:25.18`	`[g2]`	`lol :)`
`12:25.38`	`[g2]`	`I think bin2c is our friend`
`12:26.08`	`ep1220`	`what format U use for images binary, intel.hex,S3, ...`
`12:26.28`	`[g2]`	`ELF :)`
`12:26.50`	`ep1220`	`already relocated I asume ?`
`12:27.23`	`[g2]`	`all the code is PIC`
`12:27.31`	`ep1220`	`<PROTECTED>`
`12:27.49`	`[g2]`	`so I hexdump'ed the object and matched up the first instruction`
`12:27.59`	`[g2]`	`which happened to be at offset 0x34`
`12:28.18`	`dyoung`	`thats some real hacker work there.`
`12:28.31`	`[g2]`	`I did a load .... cache off, exec 0x...34`
`12:29.22`	`ep1220`	`Does JTAGtool read the ELF ?`
`12:29.42`	`[g2]`	`I don't know`
`12:29.48`	`[g2]`	`but it doesn't matter much`
`12:30.11`	`[g2]`	`We could easily make the linker do our bidding`
`12:30.26`	`ep1220`	`yea, likely the linker can output a Hex format as well.`
`12:30.40`	`dyoung`	`~nefarious`
`12:30.43`	`purl`	`nefarious is probably to be infamous by way of nastyness`
`12:30.51`	`dyoung`	`~botsnack`
`12:30.51`	`purl`	`dyoung: aw, gee`
`12:32.50`	`ep1220`	`I did work with Intel-HEX and S3 a lot.`
`12:33.12`	`[g2]`	`cool.`
`12:33.21`	`ep1220`	`Do conversion from this is primarily copy/paste for me`
`12:33.55`	`[g2]`	`I'd wipe up a simple perl script probably`
`12:34.06`	`[g2]`	`perl objectfile routine_name`
`12:34.24`	`ep1220`	`Maybe You can try to compile APEX into one of these formats and then mail to me :-)`
`12:34.30`	`ep1220`	`perl is an option also`
`12:34.37`	`[g2]`	`it could run object dump find the offset lenght of a given routine and then convert the binary to the C array`
`12:35.06`	`[g2]`	`beewoolie is an ELF master`
`12:35.52`	`[g2]`	`I just need to look at the .map file and possibly with the linker we can move some sections around to enable it to run out of the main IC`
`12:36.04`	`[g2]`	`sections as in linker sections`
`12:36.21`	`[g2]`	`it's most certainly doable`
`12:36.32`	`ep1220`	`<PROTECTED>`
`12:37.11`	`ep1220`	`If ELF processing becomes complicated. Using a HEX file is OK as well.`
`12:37.14`	`[g2]`	`I'll talk to beewoolie about this, he's quite keen on the whole thing`
`12:37.37`	`ep1220`	`HEX is standard for FLASH/EPROM programming`
`12:38.16`	`[g2]`	`I'm sure converting to other formats will be trivial`
`12:38.30`	`[g2]`	`SREC, etc...`
`12:38.37`	`rwhitby-away`	`bfd stuff is supposed to be able to do that, right?`
`12:39.09`	`[g2]`	`BDM ?`
`12:39.36`	`rwhitby-away`	`bfd - gnu binary file format handling libraries`
`12:40.10`	`rwhitby-away`	`http://sources.redhat.com/binutils/`
`12:40.18`	`[g2]`	`it does a bunch of stuff and there are lots of tools in the family`
`12:40.21`	`rwhitby-away`	`Binary File Descriptor library`
`12:40.26`	`[g2]`	`right`
`12:40.38`	`[g2]`	`ELF, COFF, etc...`
`12:40.59`	`rwhitby-away`	`yeah, I think it can do SREC, etc too`
`12:41.21`	`rwhitby-away`	`using objcopy`
`12:51.03`	`[g2]`	`ep1220, which tools were you using for the FTDI ?`
`12:51.09`	`[g2]`	`and which dev board do you have`
`12:51.31`	`dyoung`	`ep1220Tool, eh?`
`12:57.52`	`ep1220`	`g2: VisualStudio.Net /C++ native`
`12:58.35`	`ep1220`	`Poor dyoung :-)`
`12:58.47`	`dyoung`	`I had some bad experiences with VS.net I guess.`
`12:59.01`	`ep1220`	`http://www.dlpdesign.com/usb/2232m.shtml`
`12:59.11`	`dyoung`	`I was gonna buy that one myself.`
`12:59.24`	`dyoung`	`Mouser has it for $35 in single quantity.`
`13:00.14`	`[g2]`	`Does that have the 2232m on it ?`
`13:00.20`	`ep1220`	`dyoung: You need to add external parts to be able to use it for JTAG`
`13:00.48`	`[g2]`	`that's pre-dates the 2232C right ?`
`13:00.56`	`ep1220`	`g2: the chip is 2232C.`
`13:01.10`	`ep1220`	`there are 2 modules, both use the 2232C`
`13:01.17`	`[g2]`	`ok... So they moved to the new chips then`
`13:01.29`	`ep1220`	`there was no 2232m chip.`
`13:01.37`	`ep1220`	`i guess the m means module`
`13:01.44`	`[g2]`	`there was a B right ?`
`13:02.01`	`ep1220`	`no to my knowledge.`
`13:02.08`	`ep1220`	`there was a 245B`
`13:02.35`	`ep1220`	`iirc parallel FIFO only`
`13:03.20`	`ep1220`	`just see. DLPdesign has a 2232PB == 2232C + PIC`
`13:03.39`	`[g2]`	`that sounds fun :)`
`13:04.53`	`[g2]`	`actually we could probably adapter the 2232ML right ?`
`13:05.50`	`ep1220`	`yes, if You want to install it onto another PCB and add a case. it makes sense`
`13:06.16`	`[g2]`	`actually.... we should either built that plus the extra parts or get them to build it`
`13:08.47`	`ep1220`	`Using the module means You have not to handle fine-pitch SMD`
`13:09.56`	`ep1220`	`Donot know if they make custom products.`
`13:11.23`	`dyoung`	`a board to hold it with the support bits should be easy.`
`13:11.58`	`ep1220`	`yes,`
`13:12.34`	`ep1220`	`But still, for just a few the boards might get relative expensive`
`13:12.47`	`[g2]`	`Ok... and we cut a hole and put a usb-device connector right in the back of the slug`
`13:13.02`	`dyoung`	`~ube`
`13:13.04`	`purl`	`hmm... ube is Ugly But Effective. Or sometimes Unorthrodox But Effective`
`13:13.25`	`[g2]`	`or... we bring out the usb on a tiny cable`
`13:13.38`	`ep1220`	`g2: You want the 2232C inside the slug ?`
`13:13.48`	`[g2]`	`exactly`
`13:14.34`	`[g2]`	`ep1220, I've got just about everything to start selling IXP420 development kits based on the slug`
`13:14.42`	`ep1220`	`the module has a height of approx. 1cm`
`13:14.52`	`ep1220`	`So I would not see were it fits in`
`13:15.27`	`[g2]`	`I'm saying the LM or a spin of that`
`13:16.12`	`ep1220`	`It is 5,5x2cm (approx 2x0,8 inches)`
`13:16.28`	`dyoung`	`Use the Low-profile version ?`
`13:17.11`	`[g2]`	`doh! I'm saying LM it's ML`
`13:17.18`	`ep1220`	`the low-profile is same sice`
`13:17.29`	`dyoung`	`then the carrier board could have a USB2 style mini connector.`
`13:17.47`	`dyoung`	`its the same size, but it doesnt have the big USB-B connector on it.`
`13:17.53`	`dyoung`	`so it can be made to fit.`
`13:17.57`	`dyoung`	`Ithink....`
`13:18.14`	`ep1220`	`I have both lying before me.`
`13:18.24`	`ep1220`	`It only would fit over the Xscale CPU`
`13:18.29`	`ep1220`	`and this CPU gets hot`
`13:18.39`	`ep1220`	`well, warm`
`13:19.11`	`[g2]`	`Ok.. so it's better to bring out the wires and a header to the outside`
`13:19.22`	`ep1220`	`think so.`
`13:19.37`	`[g2]`	`except for strain-releif`
`13:20.02`	`ep1220`	`maybe You can glue the header to the NSLU2 case`
`13:20.50`	`ep1220`	`(I glued mine to the plastic leading the LED lights)`
`13:21.01`	`*** join/#openjtag prpplague (~billybob@72.22.136.163)`
`13:21.19`	`dyoung`	`when i modded mine for JTAG, I epoxied the header to the top of the ethernet jack.`
`13:21.42`	`prpplague`	`mmmm epoxy`
`13:22.00`	`prpplague`	`right up there with duct tape, dremel tool, and paperclips`
`13:22.13`	`[g2]`	`yeah.... that's something I want the kids playing with....`
`13:22.13`	`dyoung`	`Hey, I resemble that remark......`
`13:26.43`	`dyoung`	`I havnt had a good night sleep in 2 weeks, so I've been cranky for around that long.`
`13:26.47`	`dyoung`	`too.`
`13:26.57`	`[g2]`	`sleep what's sleep ?`
`13:27.14`	`dyoung`	`its that thing that normal people do between the hours of 11PM and 7AM.`
`13:27.16`	`[g2]`	`I thought that was something dead people do`
`13:28.04`	`prpplague`	`hehe`
`13:28.11`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: whats your excuse?`
`13:28.54`	`[g2]`	`it's s-l-o-w-e-r done there ?`
`13:29.05`	`dyoung`	`I think its related to the catastrophic failure of my the car.`
`13:29.09`	`prpplague`	`[g2]: slow isn't the word`
`13:29.14`	`[g2]`	`you're in da islands man`
`13:29.18`	`dyoung`	`and the related stress of finding a suitable replacement`
`13:29.27`	`prpplague`	`[g2]: my main problem is not having anyone to talk tech with`
`13:29.41`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: ahh`
`13:29.48`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: are you in the states?`
`13:29.51`	`[g2]`	`I thought that's what IRC was for :)`
`13:30.00`	`dyoung`	`I live island life too. I'm in Hawaii.`
`13:30.02`	`prpplague`	`[g2]: yea`
`13:30.10`	`prpplague`	`[g2]: thats my only outlet`
`13:30.18`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: really?`
`13:30.36`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: hehe, i have lots of my work there`
`13:30.51`	`*** join/#openjtag JMunakra (~JMunakra@dsl-084-059-203-180.arcor-ip.net)`
`13:30.55`	`[g2]`	`prpplague, sounds like you need the Treo650/Nokia 770 so you can talk tech from anywhere :)`
`13:30.57`	`dyoung`	`Really?`
`13:31.03`	`dyoung`	`in what sort of 'stuff' ?`
`13:31.18`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: x86 thin clients and some linux based servers`
`13:31.22`	`*** join/#openjtag jamie (~jamie@softmodem.org)`
`13:31.26`	`dyoung`	`I'm always looking for "other stuff" to do here.`
`13:31.42`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: i can hook you up with regular work there`
`13:31.50`	`dyoung`	`oh yeah?`
`13:32.04`	`dyoung`	`we should talk later then when its not 3:30AM local time.`
`13:32.14`	`[g2]`	`dyoung, won't sleep well tonight...`
`13:32.14`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: send me you contact info, they are always looking for local ppl to do basic maintaince work`
`13:32.21`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: yea yea`
`13:32.32`	`[g2]`	`he'll be too excited`
`13:32.32`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: dave123_aml@yahoo.com`
`13:32.44`	`dyoung`	`dyoung8888@yahoo.com`
`13:33.39`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: lovely. just send an email`
`13:33.52`	`dyoung`	`Ok, will do.`
`13:33.53`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: there are about 10 stores there`
`13:34.12`	`dyoung`	`really? Theres actually retail stores using linux here?`
`13:34.18`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: probably be mostly just simple stuff, replacing drives, powersupplies`
`13:34.18`	`dyoung`	`I'm amazed.`
`13:34.30`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: yea, i designed the thin clients they use`
`13:34.43`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: they were originally on cough sco`
`13:34.47`	`dyoung`	`are these chained stores?`
`13:34.50`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: ported everything to linux`
`13:35.00`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: hardware and lumber stores`
`13:35.05`	`dyoung`	`hehe,`
`13:35.27`	`dyoung`	`In a strange twist of happenstance, I probably know the vendor whose stuff you replaced.`
`13:35.39`	`prpplague`	`:D`
`13:35.41`	`dyoung`	`because theres only one I know of that does POS stuff using SCO.`
`13:36.08`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: well the company i used to work for used sco originally too`
`13:36.08`	`[g2]`	`are they public ? I'd love to short'm`
`13:36.08`	`dyoung`	`and lumber stores was one of their things. :-)`
`13:36.15`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: www.abcsinc.com`
`13:37.05`	`dyoung`	`I see...`
`13:37.33`	`dyoung`	`[g2] not public, privately held.`
`13:37.44`	`[g2]`	`I was just joking :)`
`13:38.17`	`dyoung`	`err... I cant even remember the.. oh yeah. DSI.`
`13:39.23`	`prpplague`	`[g2]: why's that?`
`13:39.35`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: ahh yea`
`13:39.53`	`[g2]`	`why was I joking ?`
`13:40.09`	`dyoung`	`prpplague, we'll talkl later. Honestly, I dont really have an interest in changing power supples and stuff. But I do know someone capable that works in the POS industry that is looking for something new.`
`13:40.39`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: hehe, pay is _really_ good`
`13:40.55`	`dyoung`	`Really really good?`
`13:40.57`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: figure, they would normally buy a plane ticket from dallas`
`13:41.02`	`dyoung`	`Hmm`
`13:41.04`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: and looking at 2 dallas`
`13:41.06`	`dyoung`	`point taken.`
`13:41.09`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: 2 days`
`13:41.12`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: down time`
`13:41.18`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: plus expenses`
`13:41.43`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: might be just some easy beer money`
`13:41.44`	`[g2]`	`think of it as a toy budget for dyoung`
`13:42.00`	`dyoung`	`Yeah, my toy budget just got re-tasked to car budget.`
`13:42.12`	`[g2]`	`toy budget replacment :)`
`13:42.19`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: hehe, its really funny that you live there, hehe, i didn't like hawaii, so i moved to another island`
`13:42.35`	`dyoung`	`hehe`
`13:42.37`	`[g2]`	`that is funny`
`13:42.46`	`dyoung`	`It IS smallish here.`
`13:43.01`	`dyoung`	`with a typical island attitude.`
`13:43.25`	`dyoung`	`thats probably why I dont talk to anyone.`
`13:43.36`	`[g2]`	`what is "a typical island attitude" ?`
`13:43.52`	`dyoung`	`insular and non-accepting toward change.`
`13:44.13`	`dyoung`	`leading to strange behaviour`
`13:44.42`	`[g2]`	`traditions are probably hard to give up`
`13:44.55`	`prpplague`	`[g2]: when you live in a small place, ppl tend to ignore every one else as a matter of nessity`
`13:45.13`	`prpplague`	`[g2]: look at the japense culture as an example`
`13:45.16`	`dyoung`	`Its not even about tradition though, its just a general attiude issue.`
`13:46.01`	`[g2]`	`hmmmm... interesting`
`13:46.38`	`dyoung`	`I can say with certainty that I am not typical of Joe Hawaii Guy.`
`13:47.31`	`dyoung`	`But that probably comes with exposure to many other places, cultures, etc, etc.`
`13:48.19`	`dyoung`	`brain... turning off....`
`13:48.22`	`dyoung`	`bzzt.`
`13:48.31`	`[g2]`	`sweet dreams`
`13:48.49`	`dyoung`	`Lumber... is my friend....`
`13:49.00`	`[g2]`	`yes... your new friend :)`
`13:49.50`	`prpplague`	`dyoung: later`
`13:50.47`	`dyoung`	`night.`
`13:52.17`	`dyoung`	`power supplies are my friend....`
`13:53.35`	`dyoung`	`Beer is my friend. :-)`
`13:53.42`	`prpplague`	`amen`
`13:54.00`	`dyoung`	`My only friend? hmm, maybe not.`
`13:54.09`	`dyoung`	`that would be bad.`
`15:46.08`	`*** join/#openjtag purl (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`15:46.08`	`*** topic/#openjtag is This is the place to discuss development of Open JTAG tools and Bootloaders`
`16:42.53`	`*** join/#openjtag beewoolie-afk (~beewoolie@florence.buici.com)`
`16:43.21`	`beewoolie`	`Hey doodz`
`16:43.44`	`jacques`	`hi beewoolie !`
`16:44.02`	`beewoolie`	`I'm back on the jffs2 horse.`
`16:44.46`	`jacques`	`yes! :-)`
`16:47.04`	`[g2]`	`beewoolie, wb :)`
`16:47.13`	`beewoolie`	`Yo`
`16:47.34`	`prpplague`	`beewoolie: yo`
`16:47.36`	`[g2]`	`ep1220-away, ran the LED program from the mini I cache!`
`16:47.38`	`prpplague`	`beewoolie: crack whore`
`16:47.44`	`beewoolie`	`[g2]: Most excellent.`
`16:47.56`	`prpplague`	`beewoolie: found my lcd issue`
`16:48.01`	`prpplague`	`beewoolie: freakin sharp docs`
`16:48.08`	`beewoolie`	`prpplague: Share`
`16:48.52`	`prpplague`	`beewoolie: sharp left out the fact that one of the register bit _also_ turns off the data lines to the lcd`
`16:49.06`	`beewoolie`	`Which bit.`
`16:49.27`	`prpplague`	`bit 11 on the lcdcontrol register`
`16:51.02`	`beewoolie`	`prpplague: 0xffff401c ?`
`16:51.42`	`beewoolie`	`prpplague: The PWR bit? Seems wierd to turn that one off.`
`16:52.20`	`prpplague`	`beewoolie: i'm not using the lcd_vdden able line, so why turn it on?`
`16:52.46`	`beewoolie`	`Because that isn't the only thing that that bit controls. ;-)`
`16:52.56`	`prpplague`	`my point exactly`
`16:53.11`	`prpplague`	`beewoolie: but sharp doesn't give any other details as to that fact`
`16:53.19`	`prpplague`	`beewoolie: only the pl110 manual does`
`16:54.00`	`prpplague`	`beewoolie: sharp makes it out as that bit only controls the lcd_vdden gpio`
`16:58.38`	`[g2]`	`beewoolie, ep1220-away can also load into the main icache`
`16:59.31`	`[g2]`	`I think we can load APEX directly into the icache, however we'd need to adjust the memory locations and deal with the data/memory sections`
`17:06.06`	`[g2]`	`beewoolie, I'm thinking we could modify APEX to run from the icache by 1st setting up the memory controller and doing some quick memory tests, then copying APEX to memory and executing from there`
`17:07.14`	`[g2]`	`a more difficult alternative would be to setup the dcache and move the volatile sections there`
`17:19.17`	`*** join/#openjtag rwhitby-away (~rwhitby@rwhitby.nslu2-linux)`
`17:28.44`	`beewoolie`	`g`
`17:29.21`	`beewoolie`	`[g2]: Let meget this straight. You want to write APEX to icache. Start execution, setup SDRAM, and then copy it to SDRAM.`
`17:30.08`	`beewoolie`	`[g2]: I don't think we can copy anything from icache.`
`17:30.40`	`[g2]`	`sure I think we can`
`17:30.44`	`beewoolie`	`I am thinking that it might be more reasonable to have a small stub that initializes SDRAM. then, we can download APEX into SDRAM and jump to it.`
`17:31.05`	`beewoolie`	`What instruction copies from Icache? All data operations will read from dcache.`
`17:31.13`	`[g2]`	`load`
`17:31.19`	`beewoolie`	`AFAIK, load reads from dcache.`
`17:31.52`	`[g2]`	`that'd be a problem :)`
`17:31.56`	`beewoolie`	`I believe we are working with a harvard architecture.`
`17:32.04`	`beewoolie`	`I and D are separate address spaces.`
`17:32.04`	`[g2]`	`nod.`
`17:32.44`	`beewoolie`	`We happen to merge them after the caches, but that is a choice made by the system designers. Or, perhaps the chip designer makes the merge.`
`17:33.18`	`beewoolie`	`It would be clever, though, to use icache routines for JTAG functions.`
`17:33.43`	`beewoolie`	`We can 1) initialize sdram, 2) perform high-speed programming to flash, 3) ???`
`17:34.44`	`[g2]`	`I'd think it'd be 1) initialize sdram, 2) high-speed load sdram and program, 3) run`
`17:34.59`	`beewoolie`	`prpplague: I hate to admit this, but I think I remember encountering the same thing that you did with the LCD controller bit.`
`17:35.23`	`beewoolie`	`[g2]: I just mean that we can perform flash programming from icache without needing sdram.`
`17:35.35`	`beewoolie`	`It wouldn't even be that difficult to automatically generate the code.`
`17:35.36`	`[g2]`	`beewoolie, and where does the data come from ?`
`17:35.46`	`beewoolie`	`All load immediates.`
`17:36.22`	`prpplague`	`beewoolie: hehe, yea, well it was a nasty one imho`
`17:36.25`	`[g2]`	`that'd be a cute little program :)`
`17:36.34`	`beewoolie`	`I'll have to review my flash programming code. IIRC, the block programming mode requires that a stream of 32 bytes be written to the flash in one go.`
`17:36.56`	`beewoolie`	`We don't care how many instructions it takes and the performance boost is tremendous.`
`17:37.24`	`[g2]`	`well the icache is only 32K`
`17:37.49`	`beewoolie`	`[g2]: We don't have to program the whole file in one pass.`
`17:38.00`	`beewoolie`	`We just have to do 32 bytes at a time to get the boost.`
`17:38.14`	`[g2]`	`well I'd think we'd just boot APEX`
`17:38.24`	`[g2]`	`then it could load via serial`
`17:38.40`	`beewoolie`	`usually flash is far far slower than sending data into icache.`
`17:39.02`	`beewoolie`	`Sure. That'll work too. But, this is a general solution that doesn't require any knowledge of the platform.`
`17:39.14`	`beewoolie`	`Except for the address of flash.`
`17:39.35`	`[g2]`	`well the JTAG stuff is pretty platform specific :)`
`17:41.13`	`[g2]`	`I'm also not sure how we'd handle the timing of the flash write completing`
`17:43.09`	`[g2]`	`wrt allowing more code to be loaded into the icache`
`17:43.52`	`beewoolie`	`Interesting question. I know that this is what the BDI does.`
`17:44.28`	`beewoolie`	`There must be some sort of signaling available.`
`17:46.07`	`[g2]`	`we could use a GPIO for signalling I'm sure as a hand-shake`
`17:50.40`	`beewoolie`	`I don't know if JTAG can read the GPIO lines without interfering with the operation of the CPU.`
`17:51.34`	`[g2]`	`actually, it'd work with one of the hw control lines on seral`
`17:56.48`	`beewoolie`	`Again, I'm suggesting that there is a way to do this without knowledge of the platform. BDI doesn't care which ARM9 or XSCALE core is being used. Therefore, it must be possible to signal in a way that doesn't use peripherals.`
`18:04.00`	`[g2]`	`I'd guess that the BDI knows exactly the platform`
`18:04.17`	`[g2]`	`because it read the ID from the chips on the JTAG chain`
`18:04.36`	`[g2]`	`and I think you are correct, there is probably some way of signalling`
`18:04.49`	`[g2]`	`bbiab`
`18:33.41`	`ep1220`	`beewoolie: ping`
`18:46.46`	`beewoolie`	`ep1220: ping..ding`
`18:47.08`	`ep1220`	`do you have time to discuss Flas Prog over JTAG ?`
`18:47.14`	`beewoolie`	`ep1220: do`
`18:47.19`	`ep1220`	`ok`
`18:47.33`	`beewoolie`	`BTW, I'm excited about the progress.`
`18:47.33`	`ep1220`	`JTAG has a way to transfer data`
`18:47.41`	`ep1220`	`Me too :-)`
`18:47.50`	`ep1220`	`transfer + handshake`
`18:48.04`	`beewoolie`	`Are you talking about DCC?`
`18:48.35`	`ep1220`	`Do not know DCC (?). there is a TxReg and a RX Reg plus Flags`
`18:48.55`	`ep1220`	`It is not standard JTAG`
`18:49.05`	`beewoolie`	`Part of the xscale core?`
`18:49.17`	`ep1220`	`Yes, part of the JTAG debug controller`
`18:49.33`	`beewoolie`	`Is this in the ixp users guide?`
`18:49.46`	`ep1220`	`in the core developer manual`
`18:50.04`	`beewoolie`	`Hmm. Let me see what I've got. I might need to get that doc.`
`18:51.10`	`ep1220`	`Intel Doc Number is 27347302`
`18:51.17`	`beewoolie`	`I;ve got the IXP42x Product Line ... Developer's manual March 2005`
`18:51.28`	`beewoolie`	`Ah, no different doc...`
`18:51.38`	`ep1220`	`this one does not have a section on SW-debug`
`18:51.47`	`ep1220`	`the other one is dated Jan 2004`
`18:52.18`	`ep1220`	`it is general XScale not 42x sepcific`
`18:52.54`	`ep1220`	`baseline is: You load flasher stub into IC`
`18:53.02`	`ep1220`	`then feed it data thru JTAG`
`18:53.15`	`beewoolie`	`Nice. That's better than I'd expected.`
`18:53.39`	`ep1220`	`TxReg is 32bits`
`18:53.46`	`beewoolie`	`Where in the doc is this?`
`18:53.59`	`beewoolie`	`...9.14?`
`18:54.01`	`ep1220`	`Chapter 9 Software Debug`
`18:54.18`	`ep1220`	`9.14 is for cache`
`18:54.35`	`ep1220`	`<PROTECTED>`
`18:54.48`	`ep1220`	`9.8-9.11 Cscale side`
`18:55.18`	`ep1220`	`Xscale side`
`18:55.20`	`beewoolie`	`OK. Looks like I'll need to read up on this.`
`18:55.26`	`beewoolie`	`What is the question?`
`18:55.46`	`ep1220`	`i have no question. Just wanted to point to You these registers`
`18:56.25`	`beewoolie`	`OK. Looks like a straightforward way to handle this.`
`18:56.35`	`ep1220`	`Yes. there is a FTDI2232 issue which You should know if You plan to write code`
`18:56.53`	`ep1220`	`it is slow when You change transfer direction.`
`18:57.03`	`ep1220`	`e.g You write a Word.`
`18:57.11`	`ep1220`	`then read a handshake`
`18:57.18`	`ep1220`	`this takes 1millisecond`
`18:57.25`	`beewoolie`	`Oh, That's bad`
`18:57.27`	`ep1220`	`So You get 4KB per sec max.`
`18:57.37`	`ep1220`	`still: 256K in approx. 1 minute`
`18:57.49`	`ep1220`	`gs said soething of 30minutes with parallel ..`
`18:57.55`	`beewoolie`	`IMHO, that makes this part really unattractive.`
`18:58.01`	`ep1220`	`Now you can speed it up.`
`18:58.17`	`ep1220`	`try to transfer e.g. 4 words`
`18:58.32`	`beewoolie`	`Let me honest here. It isn't very attractive to spend lots of development time with a setup that doesn't meet our design goals.`
`18:58.54`	`ep1220`	`what is the goal ?`
`18:59.27`	`beewoolie`	`We want to be able to achieve commercial-grade performance with this device.`
`18:59.37`	`beewoolie`	`While cheap is important, it also needs to be effective.`
`18:59.58`	`beewoolie`	`It ought to be feasible to write the whole of flash in a production environment.`
`19:00.17`	`ep1220`	`in what time ?`
`19:00.36`	`beewoolie`	`Well, 30 minutes is kinda slow.`
`19:00.51`	`ep1220`	`I said 1 minute - slowest ..`
`19:01.06`	`ep1220`	`if You do 4 words in direct sequence You are at 20seconds`
`19:01.08`	`beewoolie`	`30 minutes for 8MiB.`
`19:01.29`	`beewoolie`	`I suppose I need to look at this a little closer.`
`19:01.42`	`ep1220`	`you have a larger FLASH in mind ..`
`19:01.58`	`beewoolie`	`Sure. I'm talking production.`
`19:02.02`	`ep1220`	`one alternative. You can download to SDRAM`
`19:02.16`	`ep1220`	`This can be done at 5Mbit per second`
`19:02.17`	`beewoolie`	`Also, should be be able to write to more than one device at a time?`
`19:02.50`	`ep1220`	`with this scheme the Xscale writes to the devices.`
`19:02.58`	`beewoolie`	`s/be be/we be/`
`19:03.10`	`ep1220`	`so i think no problem (?)`
`19:04.10`	`beewoolie`	`I suppose it isn't much of a problem since the device is going to be relatively cheap and USB ports are plentiful.`
`19:04.31`	`beewoolie`	`I'll take a look at the guide.`
`19:04.39`	`ep1220`	`You many several devices on several boards.`
`19:04.42`	`beewoolie`	`BTW, what would it take for me to get setup with the same HW that yo uhave?`
`19:05.07`	`beewoolie`	`ep1220: In English?`
`19:05.55`	`ep1220`	`the fastest way: You buy the eval module (35$), plus have to add a voltage regulator and a JTAG header`
`19:06.06`	`ep1220`	`What You mean "In english ?"`
`19:06.20`	`beewoolie`	`ep1220: you wrote: You many several devices on several boards`
`19:07.05`	`beewoolie`	`Did you buy the eval board from the chip manufacturer?`
`19:07.15`	`ep1220`	`at this time i understood: Yu want to program several boards in parallel`
`19:07.44`	`beewoolie`	`That would be the primary application. It may come down to being able to bring-up several boards at once.`
`19:07.59`	`ep1220`	`I bougth from FTDI because they are in Europe.`
`19:08.00`	`beewoolie`	`it is also desirable for this procedure to be automate-able.`
`19:08.20`	`beewoolie`	`k.`
`19:09.05`	`ep1220`	`the module is made by dlpdesign. Yu also can buy in the US http://www.dlpdesign.com/usb/2232m.shtml`
`19:10.22`	`beewoolie`	`So, I need this board, a power source (voltage regulator) and an adapter for the JTAG header.`
`19:10.42`	`ep1220`	`yes. plus have to wire up these parts`
`19:11.02`	`ep1220`	`And a USB cable`
`19:11.05`	`prpplague`	`beewoolie: in the states is easier to go through digikey`
`19:11.14`	`beewoolie`	`prpplague: Don't you like mouser?`
`19:11.37`	`prpplague`	`they are ok, but i prefer digikey's search engine`
`19:11.52`	`beewoolie`	`prpplague: ditto. Mouser tends to be cheaper.`
`19:12.21`	`ep1220`	`beewoolie: With this setup You can do 3.3V targets only`
`19:13.03`	`beewoolie`	`That's all I have. We've been planning to build a board capable of 5v, too.`
`19:13.59`	`ep1220`	`then You need to add a 5V capable driver.`
`19:14.28`	`beewoolie`	`The plan has been to use a CPLD to handle that logic. Seem reasonable?`
`19:14.59`	`ep1220`	`I think costly. afik ka6sox has dropped this.`
`19:15.10`	`beewoolie`	`Interesting. I wasn't aware of that.`
`19:15.18`	`ep1220`	`last time he was talking open collector.`
`19:15.47`	`beewoolie`	`My thinking has been to develop a set of software that is capable of working with multiple emulators.`
`19:16.04`	`beewoolie`	`Openwince is OK. It doesn't meet my expectations for ease-of-use.`
`19:16.15`	`ep1220`	`You can say this loud`
`19:16.23`	`beewoolie`	`;-)`
`19:16.24`	`ep1220`	`I shortly looked at source.`
`19:16.41`	`ep1220`	`seems not easy to add a device like the FTDI.`
`19:17.01`	`ep1220`	`their JTAG probe abstraction is at a fairly low level`
`19:17.05`	`beewoolie`	`Did you use the FTDI libraries?`
`19:17.20`	`ep1220`	`I started with FTDI driver and JTAG lib.`
`19:17.24`	`ep1220`	`but it has a bug`
`19:17.30`	`ep1220`	`is unusable`
`19:17.32`	`beewoolie`	`Say it isn't so!`
`19:17.44`	`ep1220`	`so now i wrote my own lib.`
`19:17.58`	`ep1220`	`as Jtaglib was windows only. I continued there.`
`19:18.27`	`ep1220`	`there is a linux driver, but not sure how well supported (seems binary only)`
`19:18.43`	`ep1220`	`in theory this driver should be compatible with the Win driver`
`19:18.46`	`beewoolie`	`Honestly, I'm a couple of weeks away from getting into this. I'll need to buy the HW and assemble it. I want to make this a real FOSS tool for developers.`
`19:19.16`	`ep1220`	`There are some plans to make a PCB here.`
`19:19.19`	`beewoolie`	`I appreciate all that you've done to get us motivated to make progress.`
`19:19.27`	`ep1220`	`nP`
`19:19.46`	`ep1220`	`personally i am also a bit disappointed by the performance`
`19:19.49`	`beewoolie`	`When do you think a PCB is feasible?`
`19:19.59`	`beewoolie`	`Do we have any other alternatives?`
`19:20.21`	`ep1220`	`I plan to look into FPGA + USB (Spartan 3)`
`19:20.32`	`beewoolie`	`Will it be affordable?`
`19:20.37`	`beewoolie`	`<$100`
`19:20.44`	`beewoolie`	`<$100USD`
`19:21.02`	`ep1220`	`FTDI I think 60-70$.`
`19:21.16`	`ep1220`	`if one can sell a few hundred, 50-60`
`19:21.25`	`ep1220`	`the FPGA around 150$`
`19:21.37`	`ep1220`	`but that would rivalan Abatron or Majic`
`19:22.05`	`ep1220`	`A lot depends on which voltage You target`
`19:22.19`	`beewoolie`	`For a little more cash, that's really attractive to me. Ultimately, the cost isn't that important. The reall bugger with BDI is that they want $$$ for supporting other cores.`
`19:22.45`	`ep1220`	`I know. 2500EUR base + 800EUR per core`
`19:24.02`	`beewoolie`	`We've been going around this spartan solution for some time. Is the hard part doing all of the FPGA logic to do the the JTAG emulation?`
`19:24.36`	`ep1220`	`if You do JTAG only, no.`
`19:25.03`	`ep1220`	`If You want fast JTAG debug you need more intelligence in there.`
`19:25.32`	`ep1220`	`the 8051 which does the USB is not fast enough`
`19:25.46`	`beewoolie`	`Would it be feasible to start with a simple JTAG interface and do the coding on the host. Then, adding optimizations to handle faster debug?`
`19:26.25`	`ep1220`	`the reason the FTDI is slow is the USB bus.`
`19:26.31`	`beewoolie`	`Sounds like we need an ethernet interface`
`19:26.34`	`prpplague`	`as they say in texas, shit or get off the pot`
`19:26.38`	`prpplague`	`ya gotta start somewhere`
`19:26.56`	`ep1220`	`I looked into Ethernet`
`19:26.57`	`beewoolie`	`prpplague: It is also important to chart a good course.`
`19:27.13`	`ep1220`	`but that is a lot more expensive then the 8051 USB`
`19:27.15`	`beewoolie`	`I don't have a problem starting with the FTDI part for the time being. I can get some code working.`
`19:27.30`	`ep1220`	`also my thinking.`
`19:27.32`	`prpplague`	`beewoolie: agreed, just think you should do some basic tests with the ftdi part first`
`19:27.44`	`beewoolie`	`prpplague: on it.`
`19:27.55`	`ep1220`	`is a cheap way to try algos`
`19:27.57`	`prpplague`	`beewoolie: hehe`
`19:28.08`	`beewoolie`	`ep1220: Seems like we should be able to get a cheap ethernet interface chip somewhere.`
`19:28.39`	`beewoolie`	`I'll make an order in the next few days. BTW, what sort of regulator did you use?`
`19:29.30`	`ep1220`	`You need a 3,3V Low-Drop-out reg. I used an LT1085 - because it was in stock :-)`
`19:29.39`	`ep1220`	`is relative expensive`
`19:29.45`	`ep1220`	`100mA suffice`
`19:29.45`	`beewoolie`	`k. thx`
`19:30.18`	`ep1220`	`Vin can be as low as 4.3V on USB`
`19:30.51`	`beewoolie`	`Can we pull power from the USB cable and regulate it down?`
`19:31.03`	`ep1220`	`Exactly what I did.`
`19:31.08`	`beewoolie`	`Excellent.`
`19:34.29`	`ep1220`	`one could make a very simple PCB taking the 2232M, the regulator and JTAG header in a short time.`
`19:34.45`	`ep1220`	`not sure if it is worth it`
`19:35.08`	`beewoolie`	`I like to start with what we know works.`
`19:37.29`	`beewoolie`	`prpplague: case in point. This voltage regulator is $5 on digikey, $1.30 on mouser.`
`19:38.11`	`ep1220`	`beewoolie: they are available in different cases, with different current ratings`
`19:40.50`	`beewoolie`	`I know. Still, the mouser prices are significantly lower on average.`
`19:41.03`	`ep1220`	`yes, Mousers: sells You the one from ST version, not from LT`
`19:41.25`	`ep1220`	`donot know if there is an important difference.`
`19:42.45`	`beewoolie`	`Do I care?`
`19:43.45`	`beewoolie`	`I figure I'll get several and buy ones with a little larger output capacity.`
`19:44.01`	`ep1220`	`depends. If the drop-out voltage is higher, You might`
`19:44.39`	`ep1220`	`beewoolie: You are a HW engineer ?`
`19:44.41`	`JMunakra`	`You can get around the USB latency, if you have a processor on the other end that can do complex tasks`
`19:44.41`	`beewoolie`	`Help me out here. What does the drop-out voltage indicate?`
`19:45.08`	`JMunakra`	`so you don't do single shift operations, but like, a batch memory read or write`
`19:45.10`	`ep1220`	`The min difference between input and output voltage. If it gets smaller, the regulator will power off`
`19:45.14`	`beewoolie`	`ep1220: I have a EE degree, but I don't do this stuff on a regular basis.`
`19:45.35`	`beewoolie`	`So, the idea is to have a relatively low drop-out voltage.`
`19:45.43`	`ep1220`	`yes.`
`19:45.55`	`ep1220`	`In our case USB gives You 4.3V worst case.`
`19:46.12`	`beewoolie`	`Ah, so a 1.1 drop-out voltage is too high.`
`19:46.30`	`ep1220`	`If You build 1000: yes.`
`19:46.45`	`ep1220`	`For one most likely it will work.`
`19:47.01`	`ep1220`	`BTW: You will see 4.3 only if You use the device behind a bus-powered hub`
`19:47.24`	`ep1220`	`if YOu connect directly to the PC you have close to 5V most of the time.`
`19:47.36`	`beewoolie`	`Ah. That's what I figured. I usually only connect direcly since USB ports are manifold these days.`
`19:48.08`	`ep1220`	`(except maybe You have another device which draws a lot of power, like a bus-powered TV grabber)`
`19:51.08`	`beewoolie`	`Looks like they stock only one. It's got 3A output and a drop-out voltage of 1.3V`
`19:51.23`	`ep1220`	`For Your protoype I am sure You get away with this 1.3V (which is guaranteed worst-case)`
`19:51.34`	`beewoolie`	`Indeed.`
`19:51.43`	`ep1220`	`It is 1.3 at 3A if we look at the same datasheet`
`19:51.53`	`beewoolie`	`Right.`
`19:53.06`	`ep1220`	`You take the TO220 package ?`
`19:53.28`	`beewoolie`	`That's what they have. Seems easy to work with.`
`19:53.34`	`ep1220`	`nod`
`19:54.54`	`ep1220`	`requires a capacitor on in and out.`
`19:55.16`	`beewoolie`	`I think I've got those on hand.`
`19:55.55`	`ep1220`	`I forgot: You also need a MOSFET to get an open-drain ouput for RESET`
`19:56.03`	`ep1220`	`I used a BS107`
`19:59.27`	`beewoolie`	`Hmm. OK.`
`20:00.30`	`ep1220`	`my schematic is on paper for now. I will post it tomorrow. So maybe wait a day before odering`
`20:00.56`	`ep1220`	`e.g i use the 2nd channel in the module as a 3.3V RS232 to USB converter.`
`20:01.04`	`beewoolie`	`k.`
`20:01.20`	`beewoolie`	`That's what I had expected.`
`20:01.38`	`ep1220`	`will you use it with the NSLU2?`
`20:01.46`	`beewoolie`	`That's the idea.`
`20:02.10`	`ep1220`	`in this case You also must add a TRST and RESET to the JTAG connector`
`20:02.10`	`beewoolie`	`My nslu2 is presently wired for a digilent pinout.`
`20:02.32`	`ep1220`	`that does not suffice. You need the other 2 as well, else no load to mini-IC`
`20:02.35`	`beewoolie`	`We shouldn't need those, IIRC. The JTAG bus can be managed without them.`
`20:02.46`	`beewoolie`	`Oh. Interesting.`
`20:02.59`	`beewoolie`	`np.`
`20:03.36`	`ep1220`	`means removing one resitor, adding 2 wires and 2 more connector pins`
`20:03.54`	`ep1220`	`s/resitor/resistor`
`20:04.50`	`ep1220`	`for mini-IC download You need to control RESET (the RESET button on the slug does not assert reset ..)`
`20:04.59`	`beewoolie`	`I have a second slug. I'll make the mods to it.`
`20:05.37`	`ep1220`	`good. i updated the WIKI/JtagConnector section`
`20:05.47`	`beewoolie`	`thx`
`20:05.53`	`ep1220`	`to tell were to connect these 2.`
`20:06.15`	`ep1220`	`together with the schematic i will post photos of my setup`
`20:07.55`	`beewoolie`	`Good. This part search thing is really tedious. There are so many variables. I find the right part...and it's in the wrong package.`
`20:09.35`	`ep1220`	`yea. eg. there are also different BS107. the important thing here is Gate Threshold Voltage, should be lower than 2.5V`
`20:10.29`	`ep1220`	`basically i chose the parts based on what i had here, there are many equivalent ones`
`20:11.07`	`beewoolie`	`As long as I you make your BOM available, I should be able to get equivalent parts.`
`20:11.39`	`ep1220`	`I will add key parameters.`
`20:12.39`	`ep1220`	`however, e.g. i used a LT1085 with adjustable ouput - so i have to Resistors which you would not need with the 3.3V fixed version`
`20:13.13`	`ep1220`	`s/to/two/`
`20:31.37`	`*** join/#openjtag purl (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`20:31.37`	`*** topic/#openjtag is This is the place to discuss development of Open JTAG tools and Bootloaders`
`23:07.14`	`*** join/#openjtag purl (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`23:07.14`	`*** topic/#openjtag is This is the place to discuss development of Open JTAG tools and Bootloaders`
`23:13.20`	`beewoolie`	`Anyone interested in taking a job in Shanghai?`

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