| 01:29.50 | *** part/#openjtag ka6sox-office (~tking@ka6sox.nslu2-linux) |
| 02:05.30 | *** join/#openjtag [g2] (~g2@g2.nslu2-linux) |
| 02:39.53 | [g2] | beewoolie hey! |
| 02:40.36 | beewoolie | Been gone for long |
| 02:41.05 | [g2] | who me ? |
| 02:43.19 | beewoolie | I haven't seen you online in a day or so. |
| 02:46.39 | [g2] | nod. I was on a little, but I've been doing stuff |
| 02:46.50 | beewoolie | Nice. |
| 02:46.59 | beewoolie | Did you get a chance to send the diligent? |
| 02:47.11 | [g2] | DOH! |
| 02:47.27 | [g2] | First thing tomorrow! Promise |
| 02:47.48 | [g2] | I'll send the e-mail with the conf number too |
| 02:47.51 | beewoolie | np :-) |
| 02:52.44 | [g2] | ls |
| 02:52.53 | beewoolie | ? |
| 02:53.18 | [g2] | beewoolie, any luck with irq_handler ? |
| 02:53.47 | beewoolie | Hmm. I don't recall the issue. Are you talking about the USB problem on the SLUG? |
| 02:54.04 | [g2] | nod |
| 02:54.46 | beewoolie | I'm not planning to work on it until I have JTAG. |
| 02:55.05 | [g2] | ok.. So Wednesday morning then |
| 02:56.22 | [g2] | beewoolie, what are you going to use on the other end ? |
| 02:56.26 | [g2] | sw wise that is |
| 02:57.16 | beewoolie | Hang on ... otp |
| 03:08.51 | beewoolie | [g2]: k. |
| 03:09.02 | [g2] | wb |
| 03:09.13 | beewoolie | I'm planning to look more carefully at the CPU registers. |
| 03:09.27 | beewoolie | I'll probably dump them and then look to see if there are any differences. |
| 03:09.54 | [g2] | sounds like a good plan, but what sw are you going to used to do that ? |
| 03:09.54 | beewoolie | The other tack is to look at the kernel to see why it doesn't think there is an ethernet controller...or USB controller, right? |
| 03:10.13 | beewoolie | Redboot has routines for reading memory. |
| 03:10.16 | beewoolie | APEX does too. |
| 03:10.22 | [g2] | USB interrupt controller isn't in /proc/interrupts |
| 03:10.41 | beewoolie | Actually, the kernel search is probably something useful, too. |
| 03:11.36 | beewoolie | Really, that is a good place to look...and I don't need JTAG but I've been busy with cleanup...since it will tell us why the driver's don't attach to the interrupts. |
| 03:11.38 | [g2] | did we verify the interrupt type for the GPIOs ? Level verus edge ? |
| 03:12.06 | beewoolie | Don't know. I am using the same setup...I think. |
| 03:12.12 | beewoolie | Remember, that the avilla works. |
| 03:12.26 | [g2] | well the GPIOs are a little different |
| 03:12.36 | beewoolie | For the ethernet device? |
| 03:13.09 | [g2] | dunno about the etherent, but I thought it'd be easier to track down the USB |
| 03:13.21 | [g2] | as that's plain jane vanilla source |
| 03:13.34 | beewoolie | Well, there should not be a difference between the ethernet interfaces on each of the known systems. |
| 03:13.44 | beewoolie | A good idea, too. |
| 03:15.01 | beewoolie | The first thing to do...for me...is to setup the build environment. |
| 03:15.35 | [g2] | I've got 2 but I'm not shipping my new laptop to you |
| 03:15.56 | beewoolie | :-) I mean I need to add the nslu2 kernel to my build system. |
| 03:16.25 | [g2] | You've got a slug right ? |
| 03:16.31 | beewoolie | Yep. |
| 03:16.33 | beewoolie | Two. |
| 03:16.50 | [g2] | I've got a native compile environ that builds the kernel less the IXP drivers |
| 03:16.59 | [g2] | just cause I haven't tried yet |
| 03:17.20 | beewoolie | It shouldn't be hard. I've worked through the touch bits already. |
| 03:17.36 | beewoolie | It's in OE and should be easy to clone. |
| 03:18.02 | [g2] | yeah... I fully agree... I just haven't focused on it at alll |
| 03:18.22 | [g2] | but... If I sent you a flash stick with all that native stuff on there, then..... |
| 03:18.24 | beewoolie | That's what I need to do the testing. |
| 03:18.43 | [g2] | you'd just touch /.sda1root and reboot and be able to build the kernel |
| 03:18.47 | beewoolie | I have all of the code. It's just that I need to be able to rebuild the kernel. |
| 03:19.00 | beewoolie | Ah, I don't really want to build on the slug. |
| 03:19.02 | beewoolie | Too slow. |
| 03:19.10 | beewoolie | My build tools work fine. |
| 03:19.19 | [g2] | I'm not surprised |
| 03:19.36 | beewoolie | :-) |
| 03:19.54 | [g2] | do you know anything about the arriba guys ? |
| 03:20.01 | beewoolie | Only from you. |
| 03:20.44 | [g2] | http://www.viosoft.com/ |
| 03:21.19 | [g2] | one of there guys just wrote and interesting article in LinuxDevices |
| 03:21.39 | beewoolie | I'll look it up. |
| 03:21.47 | [g2] | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7546805052.html |
| 03:21.53 | beewoolie | Frankly, I've never been interested in the IDEs. |
| 03:22.08 | [g2] | no.. but the have debuggers |
| 03:22.17 | [g2] | they |
| 03:24.00 | beewoolie | RMK says debuggers are for weaklings. |
| 03:24.14 | [g2] | and you want JTAG for ? |
| 03:24.26 | [g2] | beewoolie is a weakling :) |
| 03:24.27 | beewoolie | I didn't say I always agree with him. :-) |
| 03:24.38 | beewoolie | I have moments of weakness. |
| 03:25.02 | beewoolie | Actually, I generally agree with him. It is easy to lean on a debugger when there are better ways. |
| 03:25.05 | [g2] | I'm glad... Otherwise you proabably would have never wandered in here :) |
| 03:25.24 | [g2] | engineering is all about trade-offs |
| 03:25.34 | beewoolie | the BDI2000 was crucial in finding a nasty kernel bug related to TLB flushing. |
| 03:26.19 | beewoolie | I'll have to read the paper later. |
| 03:26.43 | [g2] | Having a big tool bag helps |
| 03:27.01 | [g2] | but it's important to know which tool goes with which job |
| 03:27.22 | beewoolie | A sawzall can be a great thing. Sometimes, tho, the tools aren't really necessary. |
| 03:27.47 | beewoolie | GUI tools, as an example, often (and I mean that) make simple tasks more difficult. |
| 03:28.03 | [g2] | nod. |
| 03:28.10 | [g2] | Like adding 10K users |
| 03:28.25 | [g2] | great from a script that reads from a file |
| 03:28.27 | beewoolie | So, I'd pick upp another tool if I found that mine were lacking. |
| 03:28.30 | beewoolie | nod. |
| 03:28.32 | [g2] | miserable from a GUI |
| 03:28.51 | [g2] | That's why the two should be interchangeable |
| 03:29.04 | beewoolie | I have a pal who has used Perl to circumvent that particular Windows problem. |
| 03:29.42 | [g2] | did I ever gloat about my Perl script and the logic analyzer ? |
| 03:30.11 | beewoolie | No. sounds cool. |
| 03:30.38 | [g2] | Yeah... A long time ago we were trying to improve performance on a product |
| 03:31.13 | [g2] | there was a deep memory logic analyzer around that could actually capture 25ms realtime bus accesses |
| 03:31.24 | beewoolie | Automation is such an important feature. |
| 03:31.25 | [g2] | and had an ethernet interface on it |
| 03:32.14 | [g2] | So I captured the data, expected the files over to a PC and ran a Perl script that used the symbol table map information to build histograms of execution |
| 03:32.35 | [g2] | we got like at 10X performance improvement in like 3 days |
| 03:32.47 | beewoolie | Wow. I could use some of that. |
| 03:33.12 | [g2] | because it was simple to see where the code was executing by routine name and even sub portions of routines |
| 03:33.27 | beewoolie | Profiling. Ah. |
| 03:33.51 | beewoolie | I've been wondering if we could use JTAG for that, but I suspect not. |
| 03:33.58 | [g2] | It was nice because it was totally non-instrsive |
| 03:34.20 | beewoolie | Yep. |
| 03:34.26 | [g2] | With an FPGA, I don't see why not |
| 03:34.35 | beewoolie | Hmm. |
| 03:34.43 | beewoolie | That's not something we've talked about. |
| 03:34.46 | [g2] | it'd actually be just about perfect for the task |
| 03:34.57 | beewoolie | There are some USB logic analyzers out there. None are very fast. |
| 03:35.17 | [g2] | there are some line rate ones for 900 and 2.5K |
| 03:35.20 | [g2] | USD |
| 03:35.40 | beewoolie | The ones' I've seen aren't really sufficient. |
| 03:35.46 | [g2] | oh... you mean logic analyzers.... |
| 03:35.54 | beewoolie | I think it comes down to being able to cache the data. |
| 03:35.55 | [g2] | not USB Bus analyzers... |
| 03:36.09 | beewoolie | The throughput isn't there on the interfaces. |
| 03:36.31 | [g2] | with the FPGA... You could halt the processor... go in snapshot some data... the restart and repeat no ? |
| 03:36.54 | beewoolie | Do you know how to run the Tek 338? |
| 03:37.09 | beewoolie | As long as there is enough room to store the data. |
| 03:37.34 | [g2] | well that new S3e board has like 16MB SDRAM on it |
| 03:37.44 | beewoolie | Let's see, 500MHz bus, 64 bit samples, ... |
| 03:38.26 | beewoolie | Hmm. |
| 03:38.37 | [g2] | One thing I think these big ass FPGAs would be good for is something like that |
| 03:38.38 | beewoolie | 4G. |
| 03:38.49 | beewoolie | In one second. |
| 03:38.59 | [g2] | 1st... They have the onboard Block RAM |
| 03:39.02 | beewoolie | There's a reason that it's a hard task. |
| 03:39.10 | [g2] | Second you could setup really wide memories |
| 03:39.21 | [g2] | like 256 Bits wide or even 512 |
| 03:39.34 | beewoolie | I get it. |
| 03:39.57 | beewoolie | The thing is that it would only be worthwhile if it could be conceived as something that would be able to progress. |
| 03:40.05 | beewoolie | As the demands increased. |
| 03:40.44 | [g2] | what do you mean progress as the demands increased ? |
| 03:41.06 | beewoolie | I've got this 338. It's capable of about 10MHz or something like it. |
| 03:41.20 | beewoolie | Once the sampling rate is too low, the device is forfeit. |
| 03:41.28 | beewoolie | slow that is. |
| 03:41.34 | [g2] | nod. |
| 03:42.02 | beewoolie | Thus, the key would be to make it capable of increasing the throughput as targets get faster. |
| 03:42.05 | [g2] | The problem is it's more expensive to build the analyzers to keep up with the really fast buses |
| 03:42.27 | [g2] | actually, I think you just replace devices every couple years |
| 03:42.30 | beewoolie | I know. It's a gnarly problem. |
| 03:42.47 | beewoolie | How to make it possible reduce the cost of the upgrade. |
| 03:42.58 | [g2] | that's easy |
| 03:43.00 | beewoolie | Motherboards? |
| 03:43.14 | [g2] | no... just stay off the bleeding edge |
| 03:43.37 | beewoolie | We're far from that with the slug. |
| 03:43.48 | [g2] | I think sampling at 100Mhz effective (200 Mhz actual) is probably around the sweet spot maybe higher |
| 03:44.31 | [g2] | actually, I'd like to see a USB 2.0 bus analyzer and a PCI 66Mhz/32 wide bus analyzer |
| 03:44.44 | beewoolie | Hmm. |
| 03:44.45 | [g2] | and 100Mbs and then 1000Mbs taps |
| 03:45.29 | [g2] | I can wait for the 1G tap |
| 03:46.00 | [g2] | so back to reality |
| 03:46.16 | [g2] | What sw are you going to use with the digilent device ? |
| 03:48.14 | beewoolie | openwince for the time being. |
| 03:48.22 | beewoolie | Is there another? |
| 03:49.06 | [g2] | openwince doesn't do debugging does it? |
| 03:49.37 | [g2] | you've got serial on both the slugs right ? |
| 03:50.29 | beewoolie | Ah, yeah. One has a broken JTAG port. |
| 03:50.55 | [g2] | that one has serial though right ? |
| 03:51.00 | beewoolie | I can use GDB to do kernel debug, but I don't plan to use a debugger at all. |
| 03:51.03 | beewoolie | Right. |
| 03:51.16 | [g2] | and you are wait to flash APEX because ? |
| 03:51.30 | [g2] | waiting |
| 03:52.25 | [g2] | beewoolie tried to think up a good answer .... |
| 03:52.46 | beewoolie | So that I can compare the hardware registers. |
| 03:53.27 | beewoolie | I can do some of this without it, but I'm not going to write the bootloader without a working JTAG. |
| 03:53.44 | beewoolie | I'm doing two things at once.... |
| 03:54.37 | [g2] | right... I think it makes total sense to write the bootloader with JTAG |
| 03:55.18 | [g2] | however, I'd like to debug this kernel issue and I'm just being impatient |
| 03:55.32 | beewoolie | I already had one white-knuckler when I corrupted the environment. |
| 03:55.50 | beewoolie | I know. I'm doing the cleanup work as we speak to move on to the next projects. |
| 03:56.16 | beewoolie | I've just added the capability in my BSP builder to use CVS dates. This should allow the build to be reproducible. |
| 03:56.42 | [g2] | I've got a fixed snapshot on the laptop |
| 03:57.04 | [g2] | I've got all the metadata and all the dl's on CDROM that go with it |
| 03:58.00 | beewoolie | Is that supposed to help me? |
| 03:58.15 | beewoolie | Remember, I know that what I have isn't as good as OE. |
| 03:58.27 | beewoolie | Yet... |
| 05:21.29 | dyoung | hi's |
| 05:24.12 | dyoung | bewoolie, I thought you had a JTAG cable all this time. |
| 05:26.52 | dyoung | I'm still catching up the log, but there is a Xilinx Appnote for making a CR2 based Logic Analyzer. I downloaded it but didnt read it yet. |
| 05:39.20 | dyoung | http://direct.xilinx.com/bvdocs/appnotes/xapp368.pdf |
| 05:39.45 | dyoung | It should be fairly easy to make a large channel device based on similar logic. |
| 06:53.01 | beewoolie | dyoung: I'll check it out. |
| 06:53.14 | beewoolie | And, no, I don't have a working JTAG inerface. |
| 06:53.18 | beewoolie | interface. |
| 06:53.52 | beewoolie | k6sox sent me a cable, but it was returned becase...wait for it...the zip code was wrong. |
| 06:54.25 | beewoolie | Perhaps I'm way off bas here, but the USPO is supposed to use ZIP codes to 'help' them and not as a required portion of the address. |
| 06:55.44 | ka6sox | and this time I'm *sure* it went to the right zipcode. |
| 06:55.51 | ka6sox | so you should have it! |
| 06:59.37 | dyoung | cool. |
| 06:59.51 | dyoung | the USPS can bite me. |
| 07:01.20 | ka6sox | sometimes they are good and sometimes they suck. |
| 07:33.16 | beewoolie | Yeah. Me too. |
| 07:33.19 | beewoolie | nite |
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| 18:31.10 | ep1220 | [g2] Some time ago we talked about the Digilent USB/JTAG cable. |
| 18:31.15 | ep1220 | [g2] Did You get information on it ? |
| 18:36.39 | [g2] | ep1220, A while ago I had some info |
| 18:37.01 | [g2] | I've been playing with the parallel cable today significant joy |
| 18:38.13 | ep1220 | [g2]. I am still interested in the USB one. |
| 18:38.40 | ep1220 | Do You know which pins of the 68013 the JTAG header connects to ? |
| 18:39.09 | [g2] | not offhand, but iirc the schematic is on the digilentinc web site |
| 18:39.46 | [g2] | the problem is the usb device driver on the 68013 is custom and there's only a windows driver for it |
| 18:39.54 | [g2] | and it's not open source |
| 18:41.26 | ep1220 | [g2] I know a bit about the chip. So i could write custom firmware. |
| 18:41.48 | ep1220 | i go check out the digilent site once more. |
| 18:44.18 | [g2] | ep1220, my understanding is you'd have to cut the traces to the eeprom that has the program in it that runs |
| 18:44.43 | [g2] | clearly, somebody who know a little about the chip would be very helpful |
| 18:45.22 | [g2] | I'd also take a look at the usb2 board which has the 68013 on it also and is downloaded with firmware from what I can tell |
| 18:46.05 | ep1220 | The EEPROM can have a program; or just a USB ID |
| 18:46.14 | ep1220 | and firmware is downlaoded from the PC |
| 18:46.44 | ep1220 | In 2nd case it would be relative easy to replace it |
| 18:46.59 | [g2] | nod. I think that's the way the USB2 card is setup |
| 18:47.22 | [g2] | do you have the dev kit or are you able to programmer them ? |
| 18:47.30 | [g2] | programmer heh |
| 18:47.32 | [g2] | program |
| 18:48.51 | ep1220 | I do have the devkit. |
| 18:49.06 | [g2] | excellent |
| 18:49.28 | ep1220 | the digilent documentation page has a link supposed to show a schematic. |
| 18:49.37 | ep1220 | but there is no schematic in it. |
| 18:50.58 | ep1220 | Do you have such a USB cable? |
| 18:51.08 | [g2] | http://www.digilentinc.com/products/Documentation.cfm |
| 18:51.18 | [g2] | that has the schematic for the usb2 card |
| 18:51.39 | [g2] | and a pdf for the cable |
| 18:51.52 | ep1220 | I know this one, but does it help for the cable? |
| 18:52.09 | ep1220 | They claim the cable can handle voltage down to 1.5V |
| 18:54.12 | ep1220 | So there might be a level shifter in there. |
| 18:57.17 | ep1220 | the pdf schematic for the cable, on my PC shows the same page as the reference manual |
| 18:58.02 | ep1220 | well, not exactly, but no schematic in there |
| 19:16.15 | ep1220 | [g2] 1st I will check the drivers in the Adept Suite |
| 19:16.39 | ep1220 | to see if i can find out if firmware is downloaded |
| 19:16.45 | [g2] | ok |
| 19:16.59 | [g2] | are you programmed the 68013 much ? |
| 19:17.09 | ep1220 | I will be back tomorrow (already late here ..) |
| 19:17.16 | [g2] | ok |
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