| 02:58.43 | *** join/#openjtag Tiersten_ (~tman@Tiersten.nslu2-linux) |
| 07:56.55 | *** join/#openjtag JMunakra (~JMunakra@dsl-084-059-195-242.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:59.46 | *** join/#openjtag Tiersten_ (~tman@Tiersten.nslu2-linux) |
| 14:16.02 | *** join/#openjtag [g2] (~g2@g2.nslu2-linux) |
| 14:45.37 | prpplague | [g2]: btw, our new arm720t dev board should be available soon |
| 14:49.30 | [g2] | prpplague, that's the $199 one right ? |
| 14:49.36 | prpplague | yea |
| 14:49.46 | prpplague | thats the cpu module and carrier board |
| 14:50.18 | prpplague | [g2]: we are on the last revision of the pcb ( i hope) |
| 15:02.52 | *** join/#openjtag ep22_2 (~epIrc@gate.epatec.at) |
| 15:30.33 | *** join/#openjtag ep1220 (~epIrc@gate.epatec.at) |
| 15:31.06 | ep1220 | Hi; anyone listening ? |
| 15:33.04 | [g2] | what's up ? |
| 15:33.24 | ep1220 | I came here from openjtag.net |
| 15:33.34 | [g2] | cool. welcome |
| 15:33.39 | ep1220 | anyone working on a JTAG cable using the FTDI chip ? |
| 15:34.11 | [g2] | that's been discussed some |
| 15:35.10 | ep1220 | I am currently evaluating possible hardware solutions |
| 15:35.15 | ep1220 | Find it hard to estimate how fast the FTDI chip can be |
| 15:35.26 | ep1220 | (and do not want to duplicate work ,-) |
| 15:37.05 | [g2] | are you planning on building or buying a board |
| 15:37.24 | ep1220 | building |
| 15:37.28 | [g2] | cool |
| 15:37.53 | ep1220 | but must be faster than the parallel boards |
| 15:37.55 | [g2] | you know there's a $99 FTDI board that already does it (usb 2.0 to JTAG) |
| 15:38.26 | ep1220 | no. Do you have a link ? |
| 15:39.55 | [g2] | http://www.easyfpga.com/ |
| 15:40.15 | [g2] | 1MB throughput from the web page |
| 15:40.39 | ep1220 | Thanks, I take a look. |
| 15:42.07 | ep1220 | 1MB is on USB. the FTDI has 6Mhz max JTAG clock. |
| 15:42.57 | ep1220 | Do You know someone using this board ? |
| 15:47.23 | [g2] | no, but i had looked at it |
| 15:48.55 | JMunakra | ep: I'm interested in that too. |
| 15:48.57 | JMunakra | look here: |
| 15:49.23 | JMunakra | http://jtagpack.sourceforge.net/ |
| 15:50.45 | JMunakra | g2, what is the model you're referring to? I see only generic FPGA boards |
| 15:52.32 | ep1220 | looks cool. I am primarily interested in debugging |
| 15:52.51 | ep1220 | he emnt the |
| 15:52.51 | ep1220 | EZNIOSUSB |
| 15:52.51 | ep1220 | He ment the EZNIOSUSB |
| 15:53.33 | JMunakra | Also, those boards are all US$169+ |
| 15:53.52 | JMunakra | Oh, I see |
| 15:53.59 | ep1220 | I see 99$ |
| 15:54.31 | JMunakra | Hm, but do you have to buy software to do the FPGA design? |
| 15:54.37 | JMunakra | Xilinx has free software |
| 15:55.14 | ep1220 | No, the FTDI chip has a fixed function |
| 15:55.35 | JMunakra | Oh, the EZNIOSUSB is only a daughter board. |
| 15:55.49 | ep1220 | It can convert to serial (like RS232), JTAG and read/wrtei parallel data |
| 15:56.05 | JMunakra | 99$ isn't all you need :) |
| 15:56.25 | ep1220 | Datasheet at http://www.ftdichip.com/ |
| 15:56.31 | JMunakra | Well, I looked at the FTDI chips a while ago and didn't notice JTAG functionality |
| 15:57.51 | JMunakra | Oh, that chip is brand new |
| 15:57.55 | ep1220 | There is a TF232 and now a FT2232C, only later can do JTAG |
| 16:02.26 | ep1220 | missing on the board: Level Converter (if You need < 3.3V) |
| 16:03.17 | ep1220 | and cable-adapter to connect to "standard" 16/20 pin JTAG |
| 16:03.40 | [g2] | EZNIOSUSB is $99 US for me ? |
| 16:04.30 | ep1220 | I see the same price |
| 16:04.53 | [g2] | I think when we looked, there's a jumper on the board to run powered from the USB |
| 16:05.20 | ep1220 | Yes, there is 3.3V regulator powered from USB |
| 16:06.03 | JMunakra | Well, I suppose you don't need the motherboard if you want to use the FTDI jtag mode |
| 16:06.16 | [g2] | I think one my have to change the cabling for ARM, and maybe write a driver for the USB host |
| 16:06.16 | ep1220 | agree |
| 16:07.31 | [g2] | ep1220, do you do any FPGA programming ? |
| 16:08.07 | [g2] | the board we were planning on using is the $99 eval board from xilinx. It's got a Spartan 3 on it |
| 16:08.14 | [g2] | and bunches of headers |
| 16:08.17 | ep1220 | only small PLDs |
| 16:08.22 | [g2] | that's OK |
| 16:09.12 | JMunakra | g2: do you have a link to the xilinx board? |
| 16:09.19 | [g2] | We sould create a simple parallel cable that does 16-bit moves between a parallel port and the FPGA board |
| 16:09.30 | [g2] | one second |
| 16:10.10 | [g2] | http://www.digilentinc.com/ |
| 16:10.11 | JMunakra | I think parallel is crap |
| 16:11.09 | ep1220 | I too had problems with emulators (e.g TI) on parallel boards |
| 16:11.20 | ep1220 | worked on some mainboards, not on others |
| 16:12.20 | ep1220 | g2, why You prefer the do-it-yourself over the FTDI chip ? |
| 16:12.31 | ep1220 | price seems the same |
| 16:12.58 | [g2] | well we've planned on doing JTAG debugging at high speed |
| 16:13.24 | [g2] | So the FPGA can go faster and we can download stuff on-board to allow more functionality |
| 16:13.44 | [g2] | also several of us are interested in soft-cores on FGPAs so it's a nice match |
| 16:13.55 | [g2] | it really depends on ones end game |
| 16:14.07 | ep1220 | I see |
| 16:15.11 | ep1220 | what download speed is Your goal ? |
| 16:15.11 | JMunakra | the best thing would actually be USB for data transfer and FPGA for bit banging |
| 16:16.22 | [g2] | there's a $49 board that plug into the eval board that does USB2.0 and it's avialable now |
| 16:16.24 | JMunakra | Instead of making a parallel adapter for the Xilinx board, why not make a USB adapter? And use a USB soft core. |
| 16:16.26 | [g2] | I've actually got the hw |
| 16:16.39 | [g2] | both the eval and usb |
| 16:16.42 | [g2] | usb 2.0 |
| 16:17.37 | JMunakra | does it plug right into the Spartan-3 board? |
| 16:19.43 | JMunakra | Well, this spartan board is hot anyway. For starters, it can be used with the serial port instead of an hi-speed port. |
| 16:21.41 | *** join/#openjtag prpplague (~billybob@216.110.103.47) |
| 16:22.23 | ep1220 | I see it is based on the Cypress 68013 |
| 16:22.44 | ep1220 | was looking into this chip |
| 16:23.24 | ep1220 | using it to bitbang would give roughly 600-700kbit effective JTAGclock |
| 16:23.40 | ep1220 | the xilinx could speed up this a lot |
| 16:29.30 | JMunakra | ep: what kind of project are you working on? |
| 16:30.07 | prpplague | ep1220: have you looked at the ftdi jtag chip? |
| 16:30.46 | JMunakra | prpplague: we just dicussed that one |
| 16:31.08 | prpplague | JMunakra: ahh, ok, i was off line for about 45 minutes due to adsl outage |
| 16:32.01 | JMunakra | Well, we didn't get so far as of which JTAG clock speed could be reached with using it. |
| 16:33.28 | prpplague | JMunakra: i've not looked at the spec in awhile, but based on my tests with it, i got very good performance, around 8mhz operation |
| 16:33.40 | JMunakra | Also, pure JTAG clock isn't everything. Many applications need to read back data before they can issue new JTAG operations. So the read back latency is important. |
| 16:35.58 | prpplague | yea, i just did some limited tests |
| 16:36.41 | prpplague | it seemed to work pretty well, just never did anything with it since we had a wiggler style dongle that we already used for other legacy products |
| 16:37.15 | JMunakra | So you actually built a software to use the FTDI chip? |
| 16:37.44 | prpplague | JMunakra: yea, just some simple stuff |
| 16:38.07 | JMunakra | like what? |
| 16:38.28 | prpplague | JMunakra: nothing major, just enough to do a ident on the cpu, ident the flash via cfi, and then send over a bootloader |
| 16:39.52 | ep1220 | Did you program the flash thru the JTAG scan line ? |
| 16:39.57 | ep1220 | Or thru the CPU ? |
| 16:40.54 | JMunakra | Did you use th 2232 or the 232? |
| 16:41.28 | prpplague | ep1220: just bitbanging the data and address bus via the jtag |
| 16:41.34 | prpplague | JMunakra: 2232 |
| 16:41.45 | prpplague | JMunakra: http://www.dlpdesign.com/usb/2232m.html |
| 16:42.43 | ep1220 | I imagine the FTDI is good at this. |
| 16:42.55 | ep1220 | remember Your download rate ? |
| 16:44.02 | prpplague | ep1220: to be honest i never did any quantitative tests, basically we were just looking at program times, and it was about 1/10 the time of a wiggler |
| 16:44.39 | ep1220 | this is some progress ;-) |
| 16:44.51 | prpplague | JMunakra: we also purchased one of these and modified it http://www.qualitycables.com/productdetails1.cfm?sku=USBG-232FT-1&cats=106&catid=626%2C106%2C199%2C465 |
| 16:46.03 | ep1220 | prpplague: you loaded Your custom firmware ? |
| 16:46.04 | JMunakra | What did you do to it? |
| 16:46.42 | prpplague | ep1220: i'm sorry, i'm not sure what you are refering to |
| 16:46.57 | ep1220 | to the USB/serial cable |
| 16:46.57 | prpplague | JMunakra: it has the ftdi 2232 chip |
| 16:47.12 | JMunakra | nifty |
| 16:47.15 | prpplague | JMunakra: we just took out the rs-232 "stuff" |
| 16:47.23 | prpplague | JMunakra: and wired it for jtag |
| 16:47.29 | prpplague | JMunakra: didn't take much |
| 16:48.01 | JMunakra | nice |
| 16:48.04 | ep1220 | prppplague: that answered my question as well. |
| 16:48.05 | ep1220 | (thought it was a microcontroller USB/serial solution) |
| 16:48.16 | prpplague | ep1220: no need for custom firmware, its based on the ftdi 2232 so we made some hardware changes on the pcb |
| 16:48.42 | prpplague | ep1220: ahh ok, i'm slow today |
| 16:48.46 | JMunakra | Either that, or you add an external level switcher |
| 16:49.24 | prpplague | JMunakra: yea, its at 3.3 already, so for arm jtag thats ok |
| 16:49.40 | JMunakra | I have some code that work with a regular RS232 port, just with ioctl and stuff. It's pretty slow tho |
| 16:49.43 | prpplague | JMunakra: or atleast the arm boards we have |
| 16:50.20 | JMunakra | But this USB Serial thingy is just what you need, cheap, and almost ready to go |
| 16:50.42 | JMunakra | every Linksys hacker has a level changer board anyway, for the serial port |
| 16:50.44 | prpplague | and does native jtag |
| 16:53.01 | JMunakra | is there any free code for using the 2232 for JTAG? |
| 16:53.47 | ep1220 | prpplague: is the programming SW for the FTDI Linux or Windows or ? |
| 16:53.49 | JMunakra | Also, are there other commercial products using it? Maybe even for less than $44? |
| 16:54.38 | prpplague | JMunakra: nothing out there already |
| 16:54.45 | ep1220 | prpplague: I mean the software You wrote to progam the Flash |
| 16:55.06 | JMunakra | but that shouldn't be a big deal either |
| 16:55.14 | prpplague | ep1220: oh, linux, we are a linux only shop, however the code we wrote never was released |
| 16:55.57 | prpplague | JMunakra: well the commecial products that use the 2232 seem pretty expensive |
| 16:56.16 | ep1220 | prpplague: I saw a WIndows JTAG lib at the FTDI site, but no Linux. Did I miss it there ? |
| 16:56.26 | JMunakra | It's a nice chip with all the functionality FTDI has to offer |
| 16:56.30 | prpplague | JMunakra: we priced out doing a small run of boards with the 2232, and got the price down to around $15 |
| 16:56.50 | prpplague | ep1220: you did? hmm, i never noticed one before |
| 16:57.46 | JMunakra | prpplague: for the chip alone? But only because of the low volume. |
| 16:58.02 | ep1220 | prpplague: http://www.ftdichip.com/Projects/MPSSE/FTCJTAG.htm |
| 16:58.48 | prpplague | JMunakra: for chip+pcb |
| 16:59.20 | prpplague | ep1220: ahh, never noticed that before, however i wasn't looking for winblows stuff |
| 17:00.49 | JMunakra | Hm, how is their API available for *nixes? |
| 17:01.37 | prpplague | JMunakra: well, basically i just used the existing ftdi kernel driver, and did some modifications based on the datasheet |
| 17:02.19 | JMunakra | How is the kernel driver accessed from userland? |
| 17:04.11 | prpplague | JMunakra: the original driver showed up as a serial device node |
| 17:04.40 | prpplague | JMunakra: so i keep that style of interface |
| 17:10.52 | ep1220 | prpplague: any plans to release this software ? |
| 17:10.57 | ep1220 | prpplague: As You already looked into a PCB: sell such boards ? |
| 17:12.28 | prpplague | ep1220: negative, we are going with a wiggler style |
| 17:14.05 | ep1220 | prppplague: For in-house use, or sale to the general public ? |
| 17:15.15 | prpplague | ep1220: in house |
| 17:18.08 | JMunakra | prpplague: is their linux driver open sourced? |
| 17:18.36 | prpplague | JMunakra: "their" are you refering to the ftdi driver? |
| 17:18.41 | JMunakra | yeah |
| 17:20.06 | prpplague | JMunakra: i could not say, the driver that i used was already part of the linux kernel and is GPL'd |
| 17:20.18 | JMunakra | OK |
| 17:21.40 | JMunakra | And where is the MPSSE mode stuff documented? Like, what USB requests you need? |
| 17:23.46 | prpplague | JMunakra: i assume that all of that can be read from the kernel module, there was very little i had to do to modify it |
| 17:29.03 | ep1220 | g2: still available ? |
| 17:32.27 | ep1220 | In which timezone is the majority of the members on this channel ? |
| 17:32.28 | ep1220 | I am in Europe (GMT+2). |
| 17:34.14 | prpplague | i'm gmt+5 |
| 17:34.20 | prpplague | sorry 6 |
| 17:35.13 | JMunakra | Where's that? India? |
| 17:35.36 | prpplague | barbados |
| 17:36.01 | ep1220 | prpplague: Cool place to live/work |
| 17:36.16 | prpplague | ep1220: hehe, not today, its hot hot hot |
| 17:36.22 | JMunakra | talk about offshoring development |
| 17:36.44 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:36.50 | JMunakra | prpplague: Are you telecommuting? |
| 17:36.53 | ep1220 | prpplague: but the sea likely is not that far |
| 17:37.36 | prpplague | ep1220: nope not far at all |
| 17:37.39 | prpplague | JMunakra: yea |
| 17:37.45 | JMunakra | hot damn |
| 17:38.05 | ep1220 | prpplague: in your time: when is it best to meet more people on this channel ? |
| 17:38.23 | JMunakra | but then, you're mor likely at -6 |
| 17:38.35 | prpplague | ep1220: probably around 8-10pm |
| 17:38.48 | prpplague | JMunakra: yea, i just notice i did a + instead of a - |
| 17:38.58 | prpplague | JMunakra: can't type today |
| 17:39.10 | JMunakra | well enough :) |
| 17:41.47 | ep1220 | My goal is a JTAG debugboard wihtout a parallel interface (USB or Network). |
| 17:42.03 | ep1220 | I have to leave now, will try again later |
| 17:42.12 | ep1220 | been nice to talk to You |
| 17:42.45 | *** part/#openjtag ep1220 (~epIrc@gate.epatec.at) |
| 17:46.29 | JMunakra | prpplague: There is a lib to access the FTDI from userland. No kernel hacking required. |
| 17:46.37 | JMunakra | http://www.intra2net.com/opensource/ftdi/ |
| 17:48.25 | prpplague | JMunakra: lovely |
| 17:48.31 | prpplague | JMunakra: didn't know about that one |
| 17:48.48 | prpplague | JMunakra: we only had a week to do an eval on about 10 different methods |
| 17:49.37 | JMunakra | prpplague: who do you work for again? |
| 17:49.54 | prpplague | www.amltd.com |
| 17:49.57 | JMunakra | oh, the texan company, right? |
| 17:49.59 | JMunakra | yeah |
| 17:50.23 | JMunakra | hah, I can't stop laughing about the drug screen thing |
| 17:50.32 | prpplague | JMunakra: why is that? |
| 17:50.35 | JMunakra | but it's probably popular with american companys? |
| 17:50.49 | prpplague | JMunakra: yea very |
| 17:51.04 | prpplague | JMunakra: i don't think i've ever had a job that didn't require it |
| 17:51.07 | JMunakra | that would be so not possible in germany |
| 17:51.17 | prpplague | JMunakra: oh? why is that? |
| 17:52.25 | JMunakra | I figure that would be covered by privacy considerations |
| 17:52.39 | prpplague | ahh |
| 17:53.10 | JMunakra | It's like, can your employer require an AIDS test from you? |
| 17:53.11 | prpplague | not a big deal for most ppl as most ppl don't use drugs |
| 17:53.41 | prpplague | JMunakra: no, however the argument there is that AIDS doesn't affect your ability to do your job |
| 17:54.29 | JMunakra | Come on. That's ridiculuos. So many things affect that more than drugs |
| 17:54.48 | JMunakra | You can be fired every day if you don't do your job right. So what? |
| 17:55.14 | prpplague | JMunakra: agreed |
| 17:55.23 | prpplague | JMunakra: however its more of a culture thing |
| 17:55.45 | prpplague | JMunakra: EU in general has more liberal attitudes towards drug usage |
| 17:56.03 | JMunakra | i just signed at Apple Computers. I heard nothing about a drug screening there.... |
| 17:56.32 | JMunakra | yet, hah |
| 17:56.54 | JMunakra | No, it's more of a "the company owns you" thing IMHO |
| 17:57.13 | prpplague | JMunakra: hehe, i could not say about apple, but i know IBM, HP, TI, and AMD all require screening |
| 17:58.02 | prpplague | JMunakra: hehe, like i said, not a big deal for me as i don't use illegal drugs |
| 19:11.40 | *** join/#openjtag beewoolie-away (~beewoolie@florence.buici.com) |
| 19:21.27 | prpplague | wahoo, the bee has arrived |
| 20:26.52 | *** join/#openjtag JMunakra (~JMunakra@dsl-084-059-202-087.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:19.22 | *** join/#openjtag dyoung (~dyoung@dyoung.nslu2-linux) |
| 23:14.46 | *** join/#openjtag dyoung (~dyoung@dyoung.nslu2-linux) |
| 23:20.49 | *** join/#openjtag dyoung (~dyoung@dyoung.nslu2-linux) |