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| 16:54.54 | [g2] | beewoolie-away, hey! |
| 16:55.12 | beewoolie-away | [g2]: what up dog? |
| 16:55.39 | [g2] | I was thinking about kernels and bootloaders :) |
| 16:56.13 | [g2] | I had a *REALLY* crazy idea :) |
| 17:00.49 | beewoolie-away | ...and |
| 17:02.55 | beewoolie-away | [g2]: I thought about the PCI problem a little. It seems like we should survey the PCI registers and compare them. |
| 17:04.18 | [g2] | I wondering whether a JTAG debugger or an on-board debugger that automatically steps most lines of assembler, or an emulator could |
| 17:04.49 | [g2] | just capture all the writes to the various different register spaces (PCI, different areas on-chip, etc....) |
| 17:05.34 | [g2] | Even if it runs at 1/100 the speed, the boot process is 20-30 seconds thats 1/2 hour |
| 17:05.42 | [g2] | and you've have all the writes captured |
| 17:05.51 | [g2] | probably even by process id/name |
| 17:06.09 | beewoolie-away | The openjtag platform would be really good for this. |
| 17:06.24 | [g2] | It *totally* would, but its not there yet |
| 17:06.29 | [g2] | or even close |
| 17:07.04 | beewoolie-away | I don't have anything cabable of this at the moment. AFAIK, only jtag can make this kind of cycle-by-cycle inspection. |
| 17:08.54 | [g2] | Ever here of these guys ? http://www.etoolsmiths.com/ |
| 17:28.31 | beewoolie-away | [g2]: What does it cost? |
| 17:40.15 | JMunakra | g2, you want to capture all accesses a processor makes? |
| 17:41.04 | [g2] | JMunakra, actually just all accesses to the configuration areas of on-chip and off-chip devices |
| 17:42.14 | JMunakra | I have a library that supports JTAG operations (bit-shift and that stuff) |
| 17:42.32 | JMunakra | it's not published currently, but any day now :) |
| 17:42.54 | [g2] | what kind of devices does it drive ? |
| 17:43.05 | JMunakra | Parport |
| 17:43.24 | JMunakra | plugin interface for adding cable types |
| 17:43.25 | [g2] | Does that include the Wiggler ? |
| 17:43.36 | [g2] | or Wiggler like devices ? |
| 17:43.40 | JMunakra | I guess so (didn't try) |
| 17:43.51 | [g2] | All C ? |
| 17:43.55 | JMunakra | but it should be easily adjustable if not |
| 17:43.59 | JMunakra | yeah, C |
| 17:44.25 | JMunakra | brb |
| 17:45.10 | [g2] | beewoolie-away, ARM/Xscale has got just a handful of store opterations right ? |
| 17:47.11 | [g2] | I guess DMA is an issue |
| 17:47.18 | beewoolie-away | Off the top of my head, I think there are two. Store, and store multiple. Depends on how you define 'operations'. Most opcodes have several bits controlling how the data is transferred: access width, source registers, and so on. |
| 17:47.38 | [g2] | nod. |
| 17:47.42 | beewoolie-away | IIRC, jtag give access to the bus which means that *all* accesses are available. |
| 17:47.49 | beewoolie-away | Regardless of the source. |
| 17:48.02 | prpplague | beewoolie-away: lo |
| 17:48.06 | prpplague | beewoolie-away: how goes it? |
| 17:48.09 | beewoolie-away | prpplague: Hey man. |
| 17:48.15 | [g2] | So the processor runs in a slowed down mode ? |
| 17:48.27 | [g2] | non-realtime |
| 17:48.27 | beewoolie-away | prpplague: Not bad. I'm learning to hate autotools more and more, day by day. |
| 17:48.34 | prpplague | beewoolie-away: btdt |
| 17:49.08 | beewoolie-away | [g2]: I suppose so. I don't know details. I've read some of the TI docs on JTAG. |
| 17:49.27 | beewoolie-away | If I ever get an openjtag device, I'll probably buy the spec. |
| 17:51.22 | JMunakra | the 1149 spec? |
| 17:51.46 | beewoolie-away | JMunakra: That's the one. Seems worth owning if I'm going to hack on jtag. |
| 17:52.16 | JMunakra | not really, as I was told. What you need is the 1149 state diagram |
| 17:52.37 | JMunakra | I encourage reading the ARM7TDMI docs, very detailed on JTAG action. |
| 17:52.47 | JMunakra | it also has said state diagram |
| 17:52.51 | beewoolie-away | That's published. One of the things I'd like to do is parse bsdl files directly. |
| 17:53.00 | beewoolie-away | JMunakra: fair enough. |
| 17:53.17 | beewoolie-away | I don't have a problem supporting IEEE. |
| 17:53.21 | JMunakra | :) |
| 17:53.46 | beewoolie-away | The openwince method isn't very convenient for adding new CPUs. |
| 17:54.00 | beewoolie-away | And it's error prone. |
| 17:54.34 | JMunakra | g2: you switch the processor clock through JTAG |
| 17:54.41 | JMunakra | when in debug mode |
| 17:55.56 | [g2] | JMunakra, ok so you can control the processor a clock at a time ? |
| 17:56.45 | JMunakra | It just doesn't run by itself while in debug mode. Well, I guess it depends on the debug unit, but that's how it is on ARM. |
| 17:57.07 | prpplague | JMunakra: hmm, the arm7tdmi docs i have are very vague on jtag |
| 17:57.21 | prpplague | JMunakra: in that a printed doc or a pdf somewhere? |
| 17:57.35 | JMunakra | Annex B, "Debug in Detail" |
| 17:57.40 | JMunakra | did you read that? |
| 17:57.48 | prpplague | JMunakra: from which document? |
| 17:58.04 | prpplague | JMunakra: the armarm? |
| 17:58.51 | JMunakra | No, the ARMARM has the architecture. The different implementations (ARM7, ARM9, etc) have their own manuals |
| 17:59.39 | JMunakra | its called ARM7TDMI Technical Reference Manual, Rev. 4, ARM DDI 0210B |
| 18:03.24 | beewoolie-away | [g2]: I think you may be missing the point. |
| 18:03.24 | [g2] | url ? |
| 18:03.38 | [g2] | beewoolie-away, which point would that be |
| 18:03.45 | prpplague | JMunakra: i've always just used the cpu reference manual, didn't think about getting a core manual |
| 18:04.01 | beewoolie-away | [g2]: changing the JTAG clock (or whatever) doesn't mean you can read the data. |
| 18:04.02 | prpplague | [g2]: http://www.arm.com/pdfs/DDI0210C_7tdmi_r4p1_trm.pdf |
| 18:04.13 | beewoolie-away | We need to single step to read the jtag register. |
| 18:05.02 | beewoolie-away | prpplague: I also believe that the JTAG state machine is always the same. |
| 18:05.17 | JMunakra | beewoolie: it is |
| 18:05.19 | beewoolie-away | Make that the 'clever' JTAG state machine. |
| 18:05.44 | beewoolie-away | It's always refreshing to see a good piece of engineering. |
| 18:07.19 | prpplague | lovely, just the docs i was looking for |
| 18:08.05 | JMunakra | Ever wondered about the ARMARM saying "XXX is IMPLEMENTATION DEPENDENT" ? :P |
| 18:09.54 | prpplague | JMunakra: yea yea, i always thought that it would be described it the manufacturer specific docs |
| 18:15.49 | [g2] | JMunakra, thx for the reference and prpplague thx for the URL |
| 18:17.45 | prpplague | [g2]: np, glad to share |
| 18:18.07 | prpplague | [g2]: i've been collecting jtag info at http://www.elinux.org/wiki/JTAG |
| 18:29.15 | JMunakra | prpplague, beewoolie: what are you guys doing on the openjtag project? |
| 18:32.52 | prpplague | JMunakra: hehe, i'm a lurker here, i do bringups for ARM boards |
| 18:33.05 | prpplague | JMunakra: i just like to listen in on the jtag conversation |
| 18:33.06 | [g2] | http://www.openjtag.net/wiki/ |
| 18:33.26 | [g2] | The page needs some updating |
| 18:34.33 | JMunakra | g2, what do you do on the project? |
| 18:35.20 | [g2] | I was the guy that had the original idea |
| 18:35.30 | [g2] | ~[g2] |
| 18:35.31 | purl | i heard [g2] is really cool, and an an all around nice guy! Also he is a real funny guy, the master of NSLU2 Buildroot and a known Slug Sacrificer. And editor of SlugNews. |
| 18:35.31 | qbot | i haven't a clue, [g2] |
| 18:36.07 | [g2] | "Slug Sacrificer" I gave an NSLU2 unit to a guy to desolder all the chips and map out the traces |
| 18:36.30 | [g2] | to find the JTAG connections if they came out from the BGA processor somewhere |
| 18:36.56 | JMunakra | and the guy died in the process? |
| 18:37.15 | [g2] | jacques, and a couple others have acutally soldered on to the JTAG points and reflashed |
| 18:37.40 | [g2] | The NSLU2 == Slug |
| 18:37.50 | JMunakra | IC |
| 18:38.00 | [g2] | are you familiar with the www.nslu2-linux.org ? |
| 18:38.51 | [g2] | http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Info/PhotosOfTheInternals |
| 18:39.13 | JMunakra | not really, but I attended the CCC Easterhegg in Hamburg, Germany, and there was literally a room full of people hacking those, and two sessions about it too |
| 18:39.42 | [g2] | I've heard we've got a strong German branch :) |
| 18:39.45 | JMunakra | also about something called gentoo-linux |
| 18:39.52 | JMunakra | :-) |
| 18:40.15 | [g2] | well gentoo linux and gentoo-embedded are other topics :) |
| 18:40.34 | [g2] | So I'm guessing you are from Germany :) |
| 18:40.57 | JMunakra | yeah |
| 18:41.02 | JMunakra | so what did you / do you currently do on Openjtag, besides establishing a need for it? |
| 18:41.57 | [g2] | I'm a founder of nslu2-linux and the release manager of the OpenSlug version which is a firmware replacement for the NSLU2 |
| 18:42.26 | [g2] | I've been working with several of the guys in here on bootloader replacment |
| 18:43.20 | [g2] | beewoolie-away, is the primary author of the APEX bootloarder which is an ARM bootloader that currently boots the NSLU2, but the Ethernet and USB are initialized properly yet |
| 18:43.32 | JMunakra | I'm working on an allpurpose jtag lib, that's why I try to find out who really works with it |
| 18:43.35 | [g2] | we've been debugging those issues |
| 18:43.50 | [g2] | sounds like a good match. |
| 18:44.11 | [g2] | I've got a couple other ARM targets that have JTAG headers and could possibly be used for testing |
| 18:44.44 | [g2] | Ultimately, I'm interested in high-speed devices debugging |
| 18:44.49 | JMunakra | I have a working ARM7 debug stub for gdb |
| 18:45.06 | JMunakra | no thumb code tho |
| 18:45.06 | [g2] | how much different is an ARM9 ? |
| 18:45.35 | JMunakra | dunno :) |
| 18:45.52 | [g2] | I've seen some rally cheap ARM7's |
| 18:46.27 | JMunakra | Absolutely |
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| 18:48.43 | JMunakra | So who's actively working on the JTAG code? ka6sox only? |
| 18:50.10 | prpplague | JMunakra: i think dev is kinda at a standstill at the momment |
| 18:50.19 | JMunakra | I see |
| 18:50.24 | prpplague | JMunakra: beewoolie-away is working on some stuff for sharp |
| 18:50.39 | prpplague | JMunakra: and i've been swamped with a new handheld |
| 18:51.09 | beewoolie-away | JMunakra: the gating factor has been hardware. |
| 18:51.19 | JMunakra | well, there is http://lap.epfl.ch/dev/arm/jelie/ |
| 18:51.23 | beewoolie-away | JMunakra: We arrived at a design that would minimize the HW phase. |
| 18:51.36 | prpplague | JMunakra: yea, i've got jelie, but haven't had time to test |
| 18:51.51 | prpplague | JMunakra: we have a custom HG dongle that i was gonna use |
| 18:52.03 | prpplague | JMunakra: along with adding support for the sharp processors |
| 18:52.23 | JMunakra | HG dongle? |
| 18:52.32 | beewoolie-away | We'e been interested in producing hw as well as sw so that the system can work on any platform. |
| 18:52.45 | prpplague | JMunakra: holly-gates |
| 18:52.53 | prpplague | JMunakra: one sec, let me get you a url |
| 18:52.53 | JMunakra | ?? |
| 18:52.56 | beewoolie-away | Most of the dongles don't support volatage changes. |
| 18:53.34 | JMunakra | oh, what are you aiming for? 1.8/3.3/5 ? |
| 18:54.06 | prpplague | JMunakra: http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/projects/jtag/ |
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| 18:54.56 | prpplague | JMunakra: our dongle is based on the same design, however, we've add things like nTRST, and RST |
| 18:56.05 | JMunakra | i see |
| 18:56.38 | JMunakra | i think ka6sox was working on something FPGA based? |
| 18:57.05 | prpplague | JMunakra: yea, sorry, when i say "we" i mean the company i work for |
| 18:57.22 | JMunakra | who do you work for? |
| 18:57.36 | prpplague | http://www.amltd.com |
| 18:58.33 | prpplague | JMunakra: we have a full range of uclinux and linux devices |
| 18:58.34 | JMunakra | oh, you made your own design tools? nice |
| 18:59.35 | prpplague | JMunakra: we have full design team, plastics, hardware, electronics, and in house pcb manufacturer for small runs |
| 18:59.50 | JMunakra | cool |
| 19:00.49 | JMunakra | haha |
| 19:00.52 | JMunakra | "We require all new employees to submit to a pre-employment drug screen" |
| 19:03.26 | beewoolie-away | prpplague: speaking of your jtag dongle. Any sign of one heading out your door to mine? |
| 19:03.54 | prpplague | beewoolie-away: hell no, i just got my vonage phone working last week, i'll call this afternoon and find out |
| 19:04.02 | JMunakra | So what do you think about the USB solution (Anchor) from jelie? |
| 19:04.10 | prpplague | beewoolie-away: i don't think the shiping ppl ever read their email |
| 19:30.50 | JMunakra | later guys |
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