| 06:18.39 | *** join/#openezx blkhawk[work] (n=blkhawk@p54A7FE2F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:27.20 | blkhawk[work] | lo |
| 07:17.56 | *** join/#openezx ysakaed (i=intoxica@60.234.51.252) |
| 07:18.21 | ysakaed | hi |
| 07:18.26 | ysakaed | any progess today? |
| 07:48.49 | *** join/#openezx ao2 (n=u@2001:1418:117:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 07:52.47 | ao2 | good morning |
| 08:00.39 | webmind | good morning |
| 08:35.35 | *** join/#openezx stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@rzmobil07.rz.tu-bs.de) |
| 08:43.22 | ao2 | hi stefan_schmidt, any new experiments this morning? |
| 08:44.58 | stefan_schmidt | ao2: i tried it today again. After powered off phone for the whole night i get the 0x95saa95aa flag again. And i was able to bott a kernel with this flag. |
| 08:45.21 | stefan_schmidt | So the value is not the problem for kernel booting. |
| 08:45.52 | ao2 | right |
| 08:48.46 | stefan_schmidt | You like to report this on the ml or should i do later this day? |
| 08:50.57 | ao2 | as you wish, I can do it. |
| 08:54.03 | *** join/#openezx LaF0rge (i=laforge@sunbeam.ipv6.gnumonks.org) |
| 08:58.33 | stefan_schmidt | LaF0rge: hi |
| 08:59.55 | stefan_schmidt | ao2: You have discovered the trick with poweroff and 95aaa... flag. I just tested it with kernel boot. But we need more testing here. So if you have time, please report. |
| 09:00.22 | ao2 | I'm writing to the ml |
| 09:01.44 | stefan_schmidt | I'll write a mail about the reblob discussion with TimRiker later this day. reblob wiht usbserial console souns very usefull. |
| 09:03.01 | stefan_schmidt | LaF0rge: ao2 discovered if he powers off the phone during night next morning he have 0x95aaa... as flag. This works for me, too. But i was still able to boot my own kernel with this flag. |
| 09:07.52 | ao2 | so maybe if you LaF0rge leave your dev phones ON for a while you will be able to get 7c7c7c7c, but it is quite sure that you will not be able to boot stefan kernel. So FLAG value is not what makes difference. Are we right? |
| 09:13.47 | stefan_schmidt | i think so, but hopefully LaF0rge finds some time for testing this theories. |
| 09:19.41 | ao2 | moreover LaF0rge we found on the net some Service Manuals of A780 (by Motorola), but we do not know if they can be used in developing free software. So I'm not disclosing to others where to find them, yet. |
| 09:22.12 | ao2 | If you could ever use these manual legally, I think that development can have a further acceleration. |
| 09:52.42 | stefan_schmidt | i wrote the mail about reblob and blob mmc stuff. Now back to work. |
| 10:01.08 | *** join/#openezx banditd (n=tmm@p54A1C6E3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:14.04 | *** join/#openezx webmind (i=webmind@feather.perl6.nl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 10:14.28 | *** join/#openezx webmind_ (i=webmind@feather.perl6.nl) |
| 12:25.17 | *** join/#openezx uwehermann (n=uwe@dove.informatik.tu-muenchen.de) |
| 12:25.32 | *** join/#openezx stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@rzmobil07.rz.tu-bs.de) |
| 12:28.33 | *** join/#openezx quobl_ (i=id@tor/session/external/x-8016c388b308898e) |
| 13:14.45 | *** join/#openezx jonwil (n=jonwil@220-244-120-190.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 13:14.49 | jonwil | hi |
| 13:15.34 | stefan_schmidt | hi |
| 13:16.12 | jonwil | any progress to report? |
| 13:16.52 | jonwil | I have not heard anything further from my contact at motorola |
| 13:17.08 | stefan_schmidt | no, only wrote some mails about the discussion here to the ml |
| 13:17.18 | jonwil | ok |
| 13:18.19 | jonwil | it wouldnt surprise me if there is some code (either on the non-linux side or on the linux side executing before blob does) that is doing some of the stuff we are seeing |
| 13:19.38 | stefan_schmidt | harald get pissed off the way motorola handles the gpl source code things. |
| 13:20.09 | stefan_schmidt | I can understand him. I was talking with moto 6 month ago and was not the first. |
| 13:20.28 | stefan_schmidt | More time as they should need to do the things right. |
| 13:21.18 | jonwil | I work for an (unnamed) company and where we work, we have policies for use of open source in our products |
| 13:21.24 | jonwil | Motorola would almost certainly have the same |
| 13:22.07 | jonwil | Presumably they have some kind of label or pointer in their version control system that matches with a given firmware revision |
| 13:22.37 | jonwil | there is no reason they cant just go in, do a grep for "General Public Licence" and release everything that matches |
| 13:23.14 | jonwil | I suspect the issues are probobly: |
| 13:23.57 | jonwil | 1.Any contracts or aggreements they have with MontaVista, they have to make sure that when they release code from mvista that they compy with GPL and with mvista licence too |
| 13:24.00 | jonwil | comply |
| 13:24.43 | jonwil | 2.Aggreements with other parties (e.g. patent licences they have as well as things like the NDA they have with the transflash licence people preventing them from releasing the transflash driver for a780) |
| 13:24.50 | stefan_schmidt | I think the problem is that the code was put together in china. |
| 13:25.00 | jonwil | yes, I heard that they do ezx development in china |
| 13:26.48 | stefan_schmidt | perhaps they only get a cd with the code, without repo history. ;) |
| 13:28.55 | jonwil | From looking inside the firmware images, it appears as though they store files (like code) in directories with names like /vobs/ezx_apps/ and /vobs/wsd_sierra/ |
| 13:29.08 | *** join/#openezx ysakaed (i=intoxica@60.234.51.252) |
| 13:29.33 | jonwil | I can see names like /vobs/ezx_apps/code/phone/engine/PHONE_ENG_Global.cpp for example |
| 13:30.31 | jonwil | there are others like /vobs/ezx_j2me and /vobs/ezx_db |
| 13:30.48 | jonwil | and something called /vobs/jem |
| 13:30.57 | jonwil | any idea what this could be? |
| 13:30.58 | stefan_schmidt | Earnest. I think they have problems to figure out which stuff they can release and which not. |
| 13:32.06 | jonwil | essentially, there are 3 things with an ezx phone: 1.Stuff that is Open Source and changed by motorola (kernel, blob, anything else) 2.Stuff they are using verbatim from Montavista |
| 13:32.16 | jonwil | and 3.All the rest (which they dont have to release code to) |
| 13:33.04 | stefan_schmidt | yes |
| 13:33.19 | jonwil | aah, I think I found out what /vobs might mean |
| 13:33.44 | jonwil | google shows up several links related to something called Rational Clearcase |
| 13:34.31 | jonwil | which appears to be made by IBM |
| 13:34.55 | stefan_schmidt | hmm |
| 13:35.23 | jonwil | It appears to be some kind of source control (from reading the IBM marketspeek, looks like its CVS on steroids) |
| 13:35.30 | stefan_schmidt | :) |
| 13:36.02 | stefan_schmidt | why use something like cvs, svn, git when you can write it on your own. |
| 13:36.55 | jonwil | a big company like motorola are going to use something big and powerfull |
| 13:37.11 | jonwil | it looks like this can do a lot more than CVS and SVN can :) |
| 13:38.28 | jonwil | acording to wikipedia, one feature it has is a feature where if someone builds code and then someone else compiles the same source file unmodified, it will pull the object file built by the first person instead of compiling it again |
| 13:39.16 | jonwil | plus, you can have multiple copies of the repository in multiple locations and keep them all in snyc (makes sense when you think about how many locations motorola has development shops) |
| 13:41.00 | jonwil | it is almost 100% certain that they do have the source code to the exact software that shipped on the phones (if they dont, their version control systems need a serious overhaul) |
| 13:42.53 | jonwil | I suspect ultimatly though that the motorola inhouse legal team is the one responsible for holding up the release of the source |
| 13:43.24 | jonwil | they need to make sure that releasing the source doesnt expose them to any legal stuff |
| 13:43.30 | jonwil | not just contracts with 3rd parties |
| 13:43.37 | jonwil | but also export controls and such I would imagine |
| 13:45.06 | jonwil | anyhow, I think we should continue to try to talk to motorola and to get them to comply with the GPL (not just for one phone or one firmware image but for every single firmware image that has been made available outside motorola or has gone/can go onto a production phone |
| 13:45.16 | jonwil | and every single piece of open source software on those phones |
| 13:45.26 | stefan_schmidt | But more then six month? I think they play out. |
| 13:45.36 | jonwil | not just whats out there now but into the future too |
| 13:46.06 | stefan_schmidt | yes |
| 13:47.43 | jonwil | another question is, if <version x> of the firmware used something that would require releasing some code and then <version y> was changed to so that its done differently and doesnt require releasing the code, does that mean they are off the hook for <version x>? |
| 13:47.45 | jonwil | I dont know |
| 13:48.02 | jonwil | I do know that that is probobly one of the questions motorola legal are trying to answer |
| 13:48.11 | stefan_schmidt | But if they don't answer inside a good time window we need to force them. |
| 13:49.02 | jonwil | yes we should |
| 13:49.04 | jonwil | we should go further |
| 13:49.23 | stefan_schmidt | if they have released version x into the public, the code needs to be available. |
| 13:49.30 | jonwil | maybe I should contact the FSF again and tell them that motorola have not made any further steps towards complying with the GPL |
| 13:51.45 | blkhawk[work] | I second that :) |
| 13:52.01 | blkhawk[work] | lets send the FSF over there with some kudgels |
| 13:52.12 | blkhawk[work] | and baseballbats to break their knees |
| 13:52.15 | blkhawk[work] | :D |
| 13:53.35 | stefan_schmidt | Harald enforced the GPL also on the court. http://gpl-violations.org/ |
| 13:54.16 | jonwil | I am sending email to FSF now |
| 13:54.23 | jonwil | to follow up on earlier mails sent to them |
| 13:54.41 | stefan_schmidt | ack |
| 13:54.59 | jonwil | ack what? |
| 13:55.07 | stefan_schmidt | perhaps we can make pressure from two sites. :) |
| 13:55.16 | stefan_schmidt | ack send mail now |
| 13:55.43 | jonwil | sent now |
| 13:55.52 | jonwil | the FSF are the experts |
| 13:56.01 | jonwil | they know how to get companies to comply |
| 13:56.52 | jonwil | as for kernel (especially for a1200) maybe we need to find one or more copyright holders for linux kernel (especially components we can demonstrate motorola are using on the phones) and get them to enforce copyright |
| 13:57.21 | jonwil | basicly, the more pressure we can put on motorola to be 100% licence complient and to stay that way even when new linux phones and new firmwares come out, the better |
| 13:57.28 | stefan_schmidt | but if i'am right they never enforced the GPL on the court. I'am right? |
| 13:57.59 | jonwil | I have no idea |
| 13:58.07 | jonwil | either way, its cut and dry copyright violation |
| 13:58.19 | jonwil | motorola can ignore it and hope it will go away (which it wont) |
| 13:58.32 | jonwil | or they can fight it (which would be a bad PR move for motorola I suspect) |
| 13:58.41 | stefan_schmidt | If they use netfilter harald has copyright. Perhaps there are more kernel hacker around. I don't know. |
| 14:19.14 | *** join/#openezx stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@rzmobil07.rz.tu-bs.de) |
| 14:58.36 | *** join/#openezx uwehermann (n=uwe@dslb-084-056-062-243.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:01.31 | *** join/#openezx quobl_ (n=quobl@tor/session/external/x-8826d380fb602a35) |
| 15:01.49 | stefan_schmidt | damn it, anybody able to build blob from the source moto delievered? |
| 15:11.57 | stefan_schmidt | uwehermann: thanks for all the typo fixing. |
| 15:12.33 | quobl_ | stefan_schmidt: np :) |
| 15:14.50 | stefan_schmidt | ? |
| 15:16.06 | quobl_ | wrong window, sorry |
| 15:17.43 | stefan_schmidt | :) |
| 15:21.01 | *** join/#openezx TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 16:42.39 | *** join/#openezx ao2 (n=u@2001:1418:117:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 16:42.55 | *** join/#openezx blkhawk (i=blkhawk@p54A77178.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:43.00 | blkhawk | lo |
| 16:53.05 | *** join/#openezx purl (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 16:53.05 | *** topic/#openezx is Talk was good.. now to have it on the wiki | share your hacks | ask away | blob source finaly arrived at: http://www.datenfreihafen.org/~stefan/EZX/ |
| 17:25.48 | *** join/#openezx ysakaed (i=intoxica@60.234.51.252) |
| 17:34.04 | *** part/#openezx quobl_ (n=quobl@tor/session/external/x-8826d380fb602a35) |
| 18:57.55 | blkhawk | purl: 1+1 |
| 18:58.01 | purl | somebody said 1+1 was 3 for large values of 1 |
| 21:24.07 | *** join/#openezx blkhawk (i=blkhawk@p54A77178.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:53.43 | *** join/#openezx stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@p548654A9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:08.00 | stefan_schmidt | hi |
| 22:19.41 | *** join/#openezx jonwil (n=jonwil@220-244-120-190.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 22:27.41 | *** join/#openezx kokoko (i=intoxica@60.234.51.252) |
| 22:29.36 | jonwil | hi |
| 22:39.02 | blkhawk | lo |
| 22:50.32 | stefan_schmidt | night |
| 23:05.52 | jonwil | I just heard from my contact at motorola |
| 23:05.59 | jonwil | and have posted what he said to the ezx list |
| 23:46.08 | *** join/#openezx ysakaed (i=intoxica@60.234.51.252) |