00:00.32 | chouimat | I liked Final Fantasy Tactics on the psx |
00:01.12 | _Psycho | everquest is addictive its not because its a game, its because its a social thing with a chat |
00:01.14 | _Psycho | you know like irc |
00:01.53 | W8TVI | cool... |
00:01.57 | W8TVI | upgrade done... |
00:02.33 | chouimat | lol http://geocities.com/pupitetris/Code/Freeciv-Worms/screenshot.png |
00:02.38 | kergoth | i should allocate some more space to ccache |
00:02.44 | kergoth | shit keeps falling out of the ccache |
00:02.48 | kergoth | heh |
00:02.59 | gb2 | treke: i love RPGs, except for combat |
00:03.00 | chouimat | http://geocities.com/pupitetris/Code/Freeciv-Worms/tileset.png |
00:03.06 | gb2 | turn based combat gets very boring to me |
00:06.45 | chouimat | gb2: need a rpg/strategy/adventure type and I will be happy |
00:06.59 | kergoth | yeah, thats what i'm looking for too atm |
00:07.01 | gb2 | i loved metroid prime and zelda: windwaker |
00:07.12 | gb2 | that's the type of game i like |
00:07.31 | gb2 | realtime adventure/rpg game |
00:07.56 | gb2 | i play LARPs at times too, i can't stand tabletop RPGs though. |
00:09.50 | chouimat | i think I will install this tonight: http://sc2.sourceforge.net/index.html |
00:10.13 | kergoth | ./libtool: s%^.*/%%: No such file or directory |
00:10.13 | kergoth | ./libtool: -e: command not found |
00:10.20 | gb2 | kergoth: cool |
00:10.22 | kergoth | and libtool comes back with a vengeance |
00:10.35 | kergoth | ibot: spell vengeance |
00:10.35 | | 'vengeance' may be spelled correctly |
00:16.09 | W8TVI | The system is going down for reboot NOW! |
00:16.12 | W8TVI | :) |
00:20.44 | treke | gb2: Some RPGs I enjoy |
00:20.57 | treke | NWN I did have a little bit of fun playing |
00:21.26 | gb2 | the nutballs on another irc network are totally addicted to nwn |
00:21.51 | gb2 | i think i like games where i actually feel in control and it isn't a purely linear game. |
00:22.04 | gb2 | ofcourse.. I liked Eternal Darkness which is almost completely linear |
00:22.37 | chouimat | http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030907&mode=classic |
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00:29.48 | kergoth | make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/kergoth/coding/projects/user/oe/packages/tmp/base/apache-2.0.47-r0/httpd-2.0.47' |
00:29.51 | kergoth | NOTE: package apache-2.0.47-r0: task do_compile succeeded |
00:29.55 | kergoth | woo hoo |
00:33.52 | kergoth | kergoth@direwolf |
00:33.52 | kergoth | ~/coding/projects/user/oe/packages$ ls -l tmp/deploy/tar/apache-2.0.47-r0.tar.gz |
00:33.55 | kergoth | -rw-r--r-- 1 kergoth kergoth 3260854 Sep 9 19:33 tmp/deploy/tar/apache-2.0.47-r0.tar.gz |
00:33.58 | kergoth | heh! |
00:33.58 | kergoth | need to trim that sucker |
00:40.23 | _Psycho | 3 megs for apache for OE device ? sound not bad |
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00:49.43 | ljp | needs tiny-apache |
00:50.30 | W8TVI | heh |
00:53.40 | kergoth`bbl | _Psycho: thats full, including man pages, docs, etc. completely untouched |
00:53.45 | kergoth`bbl | _Psycho: we'll shrink it down quite a bit |
00:56.17 | _Psycho | ah indeed |
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01:32.14 | chouimat | night |
01:56.12 | *** part/#openembedded slowhog (~henryjen@ip67-95-198-3.z198-95-67.customer.algx.net) |
01:58.10 | chouimat | kergoth: do you still have the url of the disassembler script? |
01:58.21 | kergoth | hmmm |
01:58.29 | kergoth | i dont think so, but i might have it on my desktop |
02:01.33 | chouimat | kergoth: ok I found it on my desktop backup ... |
02:16.55 | gb2 | disassembler script? |
02:24.43 | bipolar | kergoth: working late tonight? ;) |
02:25.08 | kergoth | ? |
02:25.16 | kergoth | i'm not at work, no.. am i working? yeah |
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02:25.18 | kergoth | doing OE hacking |
02:25.36 | kergoth | hrmph |
02:25.42 | kergoth | this metadata passing thing is pissing me off |
02:25.46 | kergoth | it broke the ncurses build |
02:27.10 | W8TVI | curses! |
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02:28.52 | mule | do we support shared semaphores? |
02:29.10 | mule | whatever that means |
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02:38.45 | kergoth | grr |
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02:53.09 | W8TVI | mewyn: what about? |
02:53.31 | mewyn | http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=501&u=/ap/20030909/ap_on_en_mu/downloading_music_11&printer=1 |
02:58.08 | kergoth | heh |
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03:00.22 | _munky | hey |
03:00.32 | _munky | anyone here? |
03:01.16 | bipolar | hmmm... new vendor is sending me huge .doc files. Must enlighten this one... |
03:01.40 | _munky | hey do you know anything about OZ? |
03:01.55 | mewyn | bipolar: with the Clue-by-four? |
03:02.32 | _munky | if someone knows anything about getting the pocketop keyboard to work in OZ please let me know!! |
03:03.28 | bipolar | mewyn: I'm a bit more gentle then that. a nice email telling them that emailing .doc files is bad... mmmkay? |
03:03.52 | bipolar | _munky: I've never used that kbrd. Sorry, I don't even know where to start. |
03:04.07 | _munky | well it corrupts my system |
03:04.11 | bipolar | eek |
03:04.25 | kergoth | no, IRK does. |
03:04.29 | kergoth | install it from the commandline |
03:04.32 | _munky | when i try to install the package, it locks up and then when i press reset it just blinks the prompt |
03:04.37 | kergoth | bipolar: i wouldve used the clue-by-four myself |
03:04.48 | _munky | k |
03:04.56 | _munky | ill try kergoth |
03:05.10 | bipolar | kergoth: I usualy deal with informed people. I rarely get .doc files. Besides, it's a chance to mention openoffice. ;) |
03:05.30 | mewyn | bipolar: awww... but so much bloodshed can be had with a clue-by-four |
03:05.37 | bipolar | hehehe... |
03:05.49 | kergoth | heheh |
03:05.52 | bipolar | but this is the person getting me a T1 for $650 a month. :) |
03:06.04 | bipolar | I don't want to kill her.... |
03:06.06 | bipolar | yet... |
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03:13.43 | mewyn | kergoth: http://www.xmradio.com/million/refer/ |
03:14.27 | kergoth | heh, cool |
03:14.50 | W8TVI | its too bad xm is crapy around here |
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03:16.09 | kergoth | this sucks |
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03:16.24 | treke|home | who sucks? |
03:16.37 | kergoth | heh |
03:17.05 | kergoth | if i use make -e, it blows up teh build. if i pass on the cmdline, it fails due to parsing. if i pull it in from another makefile, its the wrong priority. |
03:17.05 | treke|home | W8TVI: When you donwload an mp3 you dont have to listen to people make it clear why they can't find any other job |
03:17.11 | kergoth | if i do nothing, the vars dont get into the build |
03:17.23 | W8TVI | I know! lets start a radio music stealing ring! |
03:17.26 | treke|home | kergoth: Answer: You don't package that app |
03:17.26 | mewyn | XM? crappy? |
03:17.34 | W8TVI | trees |
03:17.51 | kergoth | if i use make -e and set MAKEFLAGS="", it works for the general case, but if you _need_ a var to override everything through all submakes, you cant since you set makeflags to "" |
03:18.00 | kergoth | which is what i just ran into with ncurses |
03:18.06 | W8TVI | rm -rf /riaa |
03:19.54 | mewyn | W8TVI: ah. just burn them down. that'll make the ents happy ;) |
03:19.56 | W8TVI | or even better: |
03:20.15 | W8TVI | echo fuck you > /dev/riaa |
03:21.17 | mewyn | cat /dev/random > riaa |
03:22.41 | W8TVI | riaa > /dev/null |
03:23.54 | ljp | the difference between radio play and downloading an mp3 is that the radio station pays either BMI, or ASCAP per play |
03:24.13 | ljp | so there are royalties |
03:24.20 | W8TVI | its no differnt |
03:24.25 | ljp | yes it is |
03:24.28 | W8TVI | some one still buys the CD |
03:24.32 | W8TVI | then shares it |
03:25.13 | ljp | 'haring' is really distributing it |
03:25.22 | ljp | 'sharing', even |
03:25.32 | treke|home | musicians ought to go out and get real jobs |
03:25.43 | kergoth | damnit damnit damnit. |
03:25.49 | W8TVI | the riaa should go out and get read jobs |
03:25.50 | ljp | most musicians do have day jobsd |
03:26.08 | W8TVI | I'd rather pay $1 a song to the artist |
03:26.09 | ljp | only a small percentage actually are millionaires |
03:26.22 | treke|home | ljp: they all suck |
03:26.26 | W8TVI | than pay $20 for a cd that hos only 1 song on it I like |
03:26.34 | ljp | ahh, well. what about the recording studio? and the record company |
03:26.37 | kergoth | fuck! |
03:26.38 | kergoth | grr |
03:26.50 | treke|home | ljp: The artist is free to pay them |
03:26.50 | W8TVI | it costs $1 to make a cd |
03:26.51 | ljp | dont forget the graphic artists |
03:27.08 | ljp | ever rented a recording studio? |
03:27.10 | kergoth | i need to call make -e, with an empty MAKEFLAGS to prevent -e getting passed into submakes, and need to pass a var on the commandline as well |
03:27.12 | W8TVI | $1 per cd |
03:27.15 | kergoth | how the fuck am i going to do that. |
03:27.15 | ljp | its expensive |
03:27.32 | treke|home | ljp: Same as any other business. |
03:27.35 | ljp | it costs more than one dollar to produce a music album |
03:28.30 | W8TVI | but the charge $20 to for each CD that only costs $1 per cd to make over the run of cds |
03:28.56 | W8TVI | they sell 1mil cds to stores |
03:29.05 | ljp | thats not including the cost of the production of the music. thats just the industrial cost of pressing cd's |
03:29.16 | W8TVI | they charge the store $17 for the cd the store sells it for $20 |
03:30.19 | W8TVI | the cheapest CD I have ever seen costs $5 |
03:30.28 | W8TVI | has 10 songs on it |
03:30.56 | W8TVI | the store pays $2.50 to $3 for it... |
03:31.02 | treke|home | Thing is, those cds that were all 20 bucks last time I went to a store are all 13 bucks now. Meaning Someone figured out that that 7 bucks wasnt really necessary to make a nice profit |
03:31.53 | ljp | I'm not saying they are overpriced |
03:32.00 | ljp | arent |
03:32.09 | ljp | they are overpriced, sure |
03:32.18 | W8TVI | you cant tell me that it costs more to make the $20 CD than it does for the $5 CD |
03:32.37 | kergoth | argh! |
03:33.27 | W8TVI | the cos that stores buy the music charge 2x what it costs to make the CD |
03:33.44 | W8TVI | some times more than 2x |
03:34.01 | W8TVI | I have worked in retail for over 4 years |
03:34.20 | treke|home | mmh. pizza and scotch |
03:34.23 | W8TVI | I ahve seen what it costs stores for things |
03:34.26 | treke|home | This is gonna be a good night |
03:34.29 | kergoth | GODDAMN YOU GMAKE |
03:34.40 | W8TVI | gmake-- |
03:34.47 | W8TVI | kergoth++ |
03:35.50 | W8TVI | like I'd have to manualy reset the essid every time I put the card in to get it to work |
03:36.06 | W8TVI | kismet even works better with this new card |
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03:38.25 | ljp | you have no idea how much recording studios are |
03:39.11 | ljp | easily $50,000 |
03:39.26 | kergoth | every time i think i have a solution |
03:39.28 | kergoth | it fails miserably |
03:39.29 | kergoth | wtf |
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03:40.16 | gb2 | still battling gcc? |
03:40.21 | kergoth | no, make |
03:40.24 | ljp | drink a rum, and forget about it |
03:40.55 | kergoth | i need to set -e to pick up the vars from the env, MAKEFLAGS="" to prevent it from passing -e down into the submakes, but at the same time there are a few vars I _need_ to pass into the submakes |
03:41.12 | kergoth | so i thought maybe i could set MAKEFLAGS to just $(MAKEOVERRIDES) so it gets the vars but not the flags, but it doesnt seem t owork |
03:41.54 | kergoth | make recursion sucks |
03:42.00 | W8TVI|z | dang this desktop.... |
03:44.30 | ljp | beep |
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03:46.29 | W8TVI|z | freep |
03:46.57 | *** join/#openembedded treke|z (~root@lsanca2-ar29-4-41-064-167.lsanca2.elnk.dsl.genuity.net) |
03:47.34 | treke|z | so what happens when rootwarn on ibot reaches max count> |
03:53.44 | ljp | all the power goes out |
03:53.56 | ljp | people wont have water |
03:54.03 | ljp | so you'd better stock up |
03:54.19 | kergoth | damnit |
03:54.25 | kergoth | either we pass everything onthe cmdline or nothing |
03:54.27 | kergoth | that sucks. |
03:54.36 | ljp | all or nothing, eh? |
03:54.58 | kergoth | yeah, i was hoping to use -e for most vars that can go in at toplevel but dont need to recurse all the way through |
03:55.08 | kergoth | but there doesnt seem to be a way to do it |
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03:56.06 | kergoth | damnit damnit damnit. |
03:56.16 | kergoth | we'll hit the commandline length limit if we stick to that |
03:56.17 | kergoth | :( |
03:56.22 | kergoth | hmm |
03:56.36 | ljp | so.. just increase that |
03:56.58 | ljp | compressed commandline |
03:57.09 | kergoth | hehe |
03:57.10 | ljp | gzip the commandline |
03:57.27 | kergoth | non-ascii cmdline |
03:57.31 | kergoth | you sick bastard |
03:57.32 | ljp | someow I dont think that woulod actually work |
03:57.48 | ljp | gzsh! |
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03:59.38 | W8TVI | hrm... |
03:59.42 | W8TVI | 4 mirc users |
03:59.53 | W8TVI | they should use xchat |
04:00.43 | kergoth | grr! |
04:00.45 | kergoth | whyt he hell |
04:00.59 | kergoth | if i make -e CC=blah, it doesnt pick up that cmdline set of CC |
04:01.02 | kergoth | it does if i remove -e |
04:01.52 | kergoth | ~/coding/projects/user/oe/oe-dev/tmp$ THAT=env make -e THIS="that stuff" THAT=cmd 2>&1|grep 'THAT is' |
04:01.55 | kergoth | Makefile:8: THAT is cmd |
04:02.00 | kergoth | test case shows it obeying cmdline above all |
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04:21.02 | treke|laptop | kergoth: maybe we should subdivide content by package |
04:21.14 | kergoth | treke|laptop: ? |
04:21.17 | treke|laptop | kergoth: So we'd have content/apache/apache-2.0.47.oe |
04:21.23 | kergoth | ah |
04:21.33 | kergoth | doestn really matter, that wont affect build. just hte repos structure |
04:21.38 | treke|laptop | yup |
04:21.50 | treke|laptop | I can just see the directory structure getting messe |
04:22.31 | treke|laptop | no glibc-2.2.4? We going to switch to gcc 3 for the base system? |
04:22.44 | kergoth | yep |
04:22.48 | treke|laptop | good |
04:25.01 | treke|laptop | we using the debian dosfstools patch for a specific reason? |
04:25.17 | kergoth | probably not |
04:25.22 | kergoth | we should ditch debian patches unless we need them |
04:25.27 | kergoth | in other words, unless they touch code |
04:25.31 | kergoth | we dont need debian/ |
04:25.31 | treke|laptop | yup. That's what I'm thinking |
04:25.38 | kergoth | so we need to look at each debian patch |
04:25.44 | kergoth | check if it touches anything outside debian/ |
04:27.21 | treke|laptop | cool. Get to play "find the upstream" |
04:27.56 | treke|laptop | It's a bad sign when something is last marked as maintained by an yggdrasil employee |
04:28.11 | kergoth | hehe |
04:31.36 | kergoth | should write the source uploader class to automatically populate mirrors |
04:31.56 | treke|laptop | just let me know, I've got space and bandwidth |
04:33.23 | gb2 | hm. wonder what i should buy for my birthday |
04:34.14 | W8TVI | one of my shirt-tail cousins died of cancer 2 days ago... I am sad for her husband that will no longer have her around, but I am happy for her that she no longer suffers. |
04:34.42 | kergoth | brb |
04:34.46 | W8TVI | http://links.net/ |
04:35.07 | W8TVI | my own words... after reading one of the posts there |
04:38.53 | treke|laptop | does oemake not autosatisfy deps if you don't have it build everything? |
04:39.08 | kergoth | it doesnt know how to _locate_ an oe |
04:39.13 | treke|laptop | ah |
04:39.17 | kergoth | you must specify every .oe that it will know about |
04:39.25 | kergoth | so it cant satisfy a dep if it doesnt know where to get the metadata |
04:39.34 | kergoth | right now "what to build" is the same as "what can be built" |
04:39.37 | kergoth | its all one list of oe files |
04:39.38 | kergoth | not split |
04:39.46 | kergoth | check doc/TODO |
04:39.51 | treke|laptop | if I build something, it will know it's been built? |
04:39.57 | kergoth | yeah |
04:40.01 | kergoth | tmp/stamps/ |
04:40.06 | treke|laptop | ok. Wanted to be sure |
04:40.46 | treke|laptop | <PROTECTED> |
04:40.49 | treke|laptop | <PROTECTED> |
04:40.53 | treke|laptop | <PROTECTED> |
04:40.55 | treke|laptop | * kergoth wonders where that came from |
04:40.58 | treke|laptop | <kergoth> brb |
04:41.00 | treke|laptop | <W8TVI> http://links.net/ |
04:41.03 | treke|laptop | ωνω Signoff CIA: #openembedded (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
04:41.05 | treke|laptop | <W8TVI> my own words... after reading one of the posts there |
04:41.08 | treke|laptop | <treke|laptop> does oemake not autosatisfy deps if you don't have it build |
04:41.11 | treke|laptop | <PROTECTED> |
04:41.13 | treke|laptop | <kergoth> it doesnt know how to _locate_ an oe |
04:41.16 | treke|laptop | <treke|laptop> ah |
04:41.18 | treke|laptop | <kergoth> you must specify every .oe that it will know about |
04:41.21 | treke|laptop | base/patcher-1.0-r0 is both parent and child of patcher, aborting |
04:41.23 | *** kick/#openembedded [treke|laptop!~kergoth@dsl081-228-056.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net] by kergoth (control your mouse) |
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04:41.37 | kergoth | both parent and child? hmm |
04:41.38 | treke|laptop | The trackpad on this laptop is fucked |
04:41.41 | kergoth | oh, its recursing |
04:41.47 | kergoth | caught an infinate recursion |
04:41.50 | kergoth | patcher is depending on itself |
04:41.50 | treke|laptop | it doesnt always register left mouse down :) |
04:41.52 | kergoth | hehe |
04:42.07 | kergoth | treke|laptop: .oe files automatically pull in base.oeclass |
04:42.17 | kergoth | treke|laptop: and base.oeclass automatically appends patcher to deepnds |
04:42.18 | kergoth | boom |
04:42.18 | kergoth | hehe |
04:42.24 | kergoth | we worked around it |
04:42.27 | kergoth | look at the patcher.oe |
04:42.31 | kergoth | there's a _delete |
04:42.37 | treke|laptop | but it does nothing? |
04:42.57 | kergoth | no |
04:42.59 | kergoth | its incorrect |
04:43.03 | kergoth | base appends 'patcher' to depends |
04:43.09 | kergoth | patcher tries to remove base/patcher |
04:43.13 | kergoth | they arent the same, so boom |
04:43.16 | treke|laptop | oh. I need to delete patcher-1.0? |
04:43.19 | kergoth | no |
04:43.25 | kergoth | last line in the patcher .oe |
04:43.30 | kergoth | look at it |
04:43.37 | kergoth | DEPENDS_prepend_delete="base/patcher " |
04:43.38 | treke|laptop | doh |
04:43.39 | treke|laptop | base/ |
04:43.47 | kergoth | second line in bin/classes/base.oeclass |
04:43.52 | kergoth | DEPENDS_prepend="patcher " |
04:43.54 | kergoth | mismatch |
04:44.05 | kergoth | change the patcher _delete to just 'patcher' not 'base/patcher' |
04:44.09 | kergoth | then the problem will go away |
04:44.12 | treke|laptop | yup. DOne. It works |
04:44.16 | kergoth | cool |
04:47.17 | treke|laptop | next problem is oe never seems to go past patcher and onto glibc even though both are in OEFILES and patcher seems to have build successfully |
04:47.43 | kergoth | glibc depends on kernel-headers |
04:47.47 | kergoth | you missed an error |
04:47.52 | kergoth | unsatisfied dependency |
04:48.06 | kergoth | an unsatisfied dep disables the build of a package and things that depend on it |
04:48.14 | kergoth | but doesnt abort the build, cause there may be things it _can_ build |
04:48.35 | kergoth | saw what build? |
04:48.43 | treke|laptop | so even if it's already been built, it has to be in OEFILES? |
04:49.07 | treke|laptop | kergoth: kernel-headers |
04:49.08 | kergoth | yes, because the .oe can affect package name, version, and revision |
04:49.10 | kergoth | which are in the stamp |
04:49.11 | treke|laptop | ok. |
04:49.18 | kergoth | so without loading the .oe, it cant know the stamp to look for |
04:49.24 | kergoth | and anything can PROVIDES something |
04:49.32 | treke|laptop | that does make some sense |
04:49.34 | kergoth | but it wont know what was built that provides it without loading the .oe |
04:49.44 | kergoth | unless you were to create a mess of provides symlinks int he stamps are |
04:49.47 | kergoth | hehe |
04:50.05 | treke|laptop | this is gonna be a mess :) |
04:50.19 | kergoth | things will be cleaner once we teach oemake to distinguish between what we request built, and what oe files are available. |
04:51.07 | treke|laptop | you know, my pizza should be here by now |
04:51.17 | kergoth | heh, pizza guy get lost? |
04:51.23 | kergoth | i've had that happen. fucker called me from his cell |
04:51.28 | treke|laptop | apparently. Ordered it an hour and a half ago |
04:51.28 | kergoth | not knowing where he was |
04:51.48 | kergoth | heh, damn |
04:54.07 | treke|laptop | am I correct in concluding I need to set $PATH to include the toolchain? |
04:54.10 | kergoth | yeah |
04:54.14 | kergoth | it doesnt do that fancy shit yet |
04:54.22 | kergoth | since we have no config system, who cares |
04:54.25 | kergoth | heh |
04:54.51 | treke|laptop | who needs easy :) |
04:55.01 | treke|laptop | there we go. Now glibc is happier |
04:55.14 | kergoth | default is to install, but not package |
04:55.30 | kergoth | INHERIT=package_tar oebuild blah blah will caues it to inherit the package_tar class, and make a tarball |
04:55.34 | treke|laptop | I'm guessing it can't make ipks yet, so that probably isnt a big deal :p |
04:55.35 | kergoth | or package_ipk, or package_rpm |
04:55.55 | kergoth | but most .oe files dont have all the vars set needed to produce an ipk control file |
04:56.01 | kergoth | we need more default var values in oe.conf |
04:56.08 | treke|laptop | packaging is usually the easy part anyways |
04:56.18 | kergoth | yeah, making the shit build is the real work |
04:56.36 | treke|laptop | although packaging can be pretty tedious for things like gtk |
04:57.01 | kergoth | packaging is easier here. FILES_libc6="/lib/lib*.so*" |
04:57.02 | kergoth | heh |
04:57.06 | kergoth | wildcards++ |
05:00.29 | W8TVI | http://linuxworld.com/story/34011.htm |
05:01.04 | treke|laptop | linuxworld.com is the devil |
05:01.27 | W8TVI | "The giant sucking sound you're hearing, Darl, is the sound of your customers all contributing little pieces to the open source picture - so they can get better value and get rid of you." |
05:01.45 | kergoth | hah |
05:02.17 | W8TVI | LinuxWorld Magazine's Editor Responds to SCO CEO's Open Letter |
05:03.23 | kergoth | ljp: fix the cygwin buildroot build |
05:03.25 | kergoth | ljp: :) |
05:04.38 | ljp | I'm using that codewarrior zaurus thing |
05:04.50 | ljp | its kinda cool |
05:05.46 | W8TVI | "Taking the Geek Out of Linux"? what the world comming to?! |
05:08.52 | W8TVI | if they want people to use linux insted of windows, they need to get all the hardware co's to make linux drivers, and make a gui for stupid people |
05:09.59 | ljp | there is a linux gui for stupid people - gnome. smart people use fluxbox |
05:10.18 | kergoth | whats kde, somewhere in between? |
05:10.22 | kergoth | :P |
05:10.33 | W8TVI | I like kde |
05:10.37 | treke|laptop | no. kde is for germans |
05:10.43 | kergoth | haha |
05:10.43 | kergoth | yeah |
05:10.44 | W8TVI | easy to use but powerful |
05:10.47 | treke|laptop | and other eurofreaks |
05:11.02 | W8TVI | but right now I'm using gnome for some reason that I dont rememeber |
05:11.48 | ljp | heheh actually, I tend to use kde |
05:12.09 | ljp | and switch to fluxbox when it pisses me off |
05:12.27 | ljp | I havent tried gnome for along time |
05:12.39 | kergoth | i'm the other way around. use fluxbox and occasionally try kde to see how its doing |
05:12.43 | ljp | gnome would be good.. if it used Qt |
05:13.13 | treke|laptop | qt would be cool if it was lgpl |
05:13.17 | ljp | its better than SCO support for linux |
05:13.41 | ljp | revive harmony, and lgpl it |
05:13.43 | W8TVI | ture |
05:13.46 | W8TVI | true |
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05:23.25 | treke|laptop | somehow /lib/libc.so.6 is sneaking into the build |
05:24.14 | ljp | oohh. afraid of a little committment, eh? |
05:24.22 | treke|laptop | nope. up to date |
05:25.17 | kergoth | k bk pull |
05:25.28 | kergoth | remove tmp/staging/target/lib/libc.so if it exists |
05:25.31 | kergoth | then try again |
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05:34.06 | treke|laptop | cool libc6 compiled |
05:35.12 | treke|laptop | this is the first thing I've gotten to build in oe |
05:35.59 | ljp | progress |
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05:41.09 | ljp | TimRiker: hi |
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05:42.51 | Bala | so does everyone on the OE team work for TI? or just Tim and Kergoth? |
05:43.28 | kergoth | tim doesnt work on oe |
05:43.40 | kergoth | the only ti employee that does is myself |
05:43.48 | Bala | ah well that answers my question then :) |
05:43.54 | kergoth | heheh |
05:44.03 | treke|laptop | cool. dosfstool looks done |
05:44.34 | kergoth | i love how with inheritence, the .oe files get more and more slim and clean |
05:44.41 | kergoth | less duplicate implementations |
05:45.26 | ljp | thats inconceivable! |
05:46.30 | ljp | bleh |
05:49.35 | kergoth | hehe |
05:49.53 | treke|laptop | TimRiker: You're the boss. You dont have to do any work |
05:50.06 | kergoth | just sit in meetings, right? ;) |
05:50.10 | ljp | ya, you can drink beer like my boss |
05:50.16 | treke|laptop | and sign timecards |
05:50.39 | TimRiker | meetings meetings.. that's about it. |
05:51.09 | ljp | do you have meetings to discuss other meetings? |
05:51.14 | TimRiker | getting some time in on the side now. looking forward to getting a dev board to start hacking on. |
05:51.24 | TimRiker | ljp: yep. =/ |
05:51.45 | ljp | oh, thats funny |
05:54.55 | treke|laptop | cool. e2fsprogs builds |
05:54.58 | treke|laptop | this shit is nice |
05:55.04 | treke|laptop | TimRiker: give chris a raise |
05:59.54 | ljp | ya, me too |
06:03.51 | fdask | i did up a revamped downloads page on my OZ site mirror... can ppl check it out and lemme know if they like the interface for selecting files? |
06:03.53 | fdask | http://ffff.ca/oz_website/content/download |
06:04.28 | fdask | not done yet as far as pulling up the right files... the box to select things at the top is the main bit i'm interested in feedback on |
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06:05.39 | ljp | i like it |
06:06.11 | kergoth | i like it too. simple, clean. |
06:06.59 | fdask | need a bit of info on the directory structure for releases... right now, i notice everything kinda jumbled... like 5000d/5500 images in the same dir. is this gonna get cleaned up? |
06:07.10 | fdask | like maybe a REL_VER/MODEL/ type structure? |
06:07.17 | kergoth | yeah, we need to restructure the site |
06:07.24 | kergoth | i had a plan for that, but never got around to doing it |
06:07.49 | fdask | cuz once thats in place, putting something like this (the rom selection thing) into place will be a snap. |
06:07.53 | kergoth | s/site/site directory structure/ |
06:12.51 | kergoth | fdask: make sure you use valid xhtml, or noda will likely kill you |
06:12.53 | kergoth | hehe |
06:13.09 | kergoth | he's a stickler for standards copmliance |
06:13.14 | kergoth | bleh, cant type |
06:13.21 | fdask | heh thx for the tip. :) |
06:13.49 | fdask | does noda come on freenode? or any of the other website devs? |
06:14.01 | kergoth | yeah he does, but not all that often nowadays |
06:14.07 | kergoth | i atke it he's busy with contracts |
06:14.08 | kergoth | ibot: seen noda |
06:14.08 | | noda <~noda@modemcable013.119-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca> was last seen on IRC in channel #openembedded, 1d 12h 33m 41s ago, saying: 'Huh? Why change /etc/network/interfaces?'. |
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06:17.44 | kergoth | W8TVI: is cluebat the distribution menas? |
06:17.46 | kergoth | means |
06:18.15 | W8TVI | nope, clue-by-four |
06:18.30 | kergoth | ah, excellent. |
06:18.42 | W8TVI | <W8TVI> do I have to get the clue-by-four out? if you keep asking if you can ask a question, I'm going to tell you no. |
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06:26.49 | W8TVI | kergoth: http://knerd.com/~kb8sjt/vlog.txt |
06:27.53 | kergoth | hehe |
06:28.15 | W8TVI | :) |
06:28.31 | W8TVI | like the way I handled it? |
06:28.49 | treke|z | <msg treke|home get laudndry 30 minutes |
06:29.04 | kergoth | treke|z: you missed. |
06:29.59 | treke|z | close enough |
06:30.31 | treke|z | I just need a timestamp so I know when to get it :P |
06:30.44 | kergoth | hehe. i should try that |
06:30.55 | kergoth | i always forget it in the dryer and end up with wrinkley clothes |
06:31.18 | treke|z | i dont use dryers much :p |
06:31.31 | treke|z | mostly hang to dry |
06:32.32 | treke|z | not that I have much laundry to do |
06:32.41 | ljp | I just dont wash the clothes |
06:32.51 | ljp | that way. they never get wrinkled |
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06:33.18 | treke|z | shirts and pants all go to the cleaners, except in emergencies |
06:33.44 | kergoth | cleaners.. i should do that. save time |
06:33.56 | W8TVI | cool |
06:34.03 | W8TVI | kismet runs on my desktop... |
06:34.14 | W8TVI | even though I have no wireless card in it |
06:34.16 | W8TVI | lol |
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06:47.13 | fdask | Etherkillers? |
06:48.29 | W8TVI | yep |
06:48.55 | fdask | what are those |
06:49.12 | W8TVI | kergoth: his problem was with not having the dir that kismet wanted to write to a real folder |
06:49.15 | W8TVI | FATAL: Dump file error: Unable to open dump file Kismet-Sep-10-2003-1.dump |
06:49.24 | kergoth | hehe |
06:50.09 | treke|home | hmmm |
06:50.13 | treke|home | mplayer was really hurting |
06:51.23 | ljp | hmm.. how is dhcp handled in oz? |
06:51.37 | treke|home | with udhcp |
06:51.38 | W8TVI | fdask: http://www.fiftythree.org/etherkiller/ |
06:52.13 | ljp | hmm |
06:52.28 | ljp | what package? |
06:53.06 | ljp | buxybox? |
06:53.12 | ljp | err busybox |
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06:55.45 | ljp | hmm |
06:56.01 | kergoth | yeah busybox includes udhcpc |
06:56.45 | treke|home | oh sweet. sash is working on reverse engineering the w100 stuff |
06:56.52 | kergoth | yeah |
06:56.56 | kergoth | thats what i told you and mallum earlier |
06:57.04 | kergoth | forgot it was sash doing it though |
06:57.16 | kergoth | does he have that on a site somewhere or something? |
06:57.24 | treke|home | zaurus forums |
06:57.42 | kergoth | bleh. i'll never understand the desire to use forums |
06:58.06 | treke|home | nntp is your friend |
06:58.13 | kergoth | as is mutt. |
06:58.28 | treke|home | there is a patch for nntp support in mutt |
06:58.38 | kergoth | is there? coool |
06:58.41 | treke|home | yeah |
06:58.52 | treke|home | habit keeps me from ditching tin for it though |
07:02.39 | ljp | thats funny. theres a screenie of busybox on the web site |
07:09.38 | W8TVI | night guys |
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07:27.29 | ljp | bleh |
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08:17.43 | Twiun | good morning |
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09:37.24 | mickeyl | morning Twiun |
09:37.27 | mickeyl | hi rest |
09:37.29 | mickeyl | ;) |
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12:00.01 | cmartin | mickeyl: have any idea why console messages are still being displayed on the FB even though Opie already runs? |
12:00.35 | cmartin | mickeyl: i can't make why you don't see it |
12:00.55 | mickeyl | didn't read my botmail? |
12:01.10 | mickeyl | cmartin: do /msg ibot botmail read |
12:01.20 | cmartin | mickeyl: no i wasn't informed of a botmail |
12:01.28 | mickeyl | strange |
12:01.30 | mickeyl | anyway |
12:01.32 | cmartin | botmail read |
12:01.39 | mickeyl | no not here, /msg ibot |
12:02.09 | mickeyl | cmartin: you must recompile the kernel for it to work |
12:02.16 | mickeyl | cmartin: because i changed the kernel command line |
12:02.20 | cmartin | mickeyl: i had rebuilt my kernel, did you change something yesterday? |
12:02.24 | cmartin | k |
12:02.32 | cmartin | mind reading |
12:03.23 | mickeyl | no, i didn't |
12:03.25 | mickeyl | hmm |
12:03.56 | mickeyl | cmartin: do a 'cat /proc/cmdline |
12:04.28 | cmartin | mickeyl: what did you change in the cmd line - i think bk left mine in place since i had edited it before |
12:04.52 | cmartin | mickeyl: can i do a bk unedit on spec. files? |
12:07.07 | mickeyl | what is a spec. file? |
12:07.40 | mickeyl | ah "specific" |
12:07.44 | mickeyl | bk unedit works, yeah |
12:08.49 | mickeyl | hah - no wonder then :) |
12:08.49 | cmartin | so a "bk unedit packages/kernel-simpad/Makefile" would remove my changes and allow to grab the version from bitkeeper? |
12:08.55 | mickeyl | cmartin: yeah |
12:09.01 | mickeyl | cmartin: as soon as you didn't have commited it |
12:09.12 | mickeyl | s/as soon/as long |
12:10.47 | cmartin | bk pull says nothing to pull |
12:11.26 | prh | bah. netbase cant be found in ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/potato/main/source/base/ which is fine... it's not there... |
12:12.33 | cmartin | . /proc/cmdline says: |
12:12.36 | cmartin | mtdparts=sa1100:512k(boot),1m(kernel),-(root) console=tty1 root=1f02 noinitrd jffs2_orphaned_inodes=delete rootfstype=jffs2 M |
12:12.47 | mickeyl | that seems ok |
12:12.53 | cmartin | i don't know what the M on the is doiing there |
12:12.55 | mickeyl | now what is the contents of /etc/init.d/banner ? |
12:13.37 | cmartin | # cat /etc/init.d/banner |
12:13.39 | cmartin | #!/bin/sh |
12:13.40 | cmartin | #switch to vt2 |
12:13.42 | cmartin | chvt 2 |
12:13.43 | cmartin | #disable non-critical output messages |
12:13.45 | cmartin | echo "2" >/proc/sys/kernel/printk |
12:13.46 | cmartin | #turn off cursor and show a logo |
12:13.48 | cmartin | echo -ne '\033[?25l' >/dev/vc/2 |
12:13.49 | cmartin | zcat /etc/bootlogo.gz >/dev/fb/0 2>/dev/null |
12:13.51 | cmartin | #clear bottom if booting for the first time |
12:13.52 | cmartin | if test ! -e /etc/.configured; then |
12:13.54 | cmartin | <PROTECTED> |
12:13.55 | cmartin | <PROTECTED> |
12:13.57 | cmartin | <PROTECTED> |
12:13.59 | cmartin | <PROTECTED> |
12:14.00 | cmartin | <PROTECTED> |
12:14.02 | cmartin | <PROTECTED> |
12:14.15 | mickeyl | looks ok |
12:14.21 | mickeyl | no idea why it doesn't work - it should |
12:15.00 | mickeyl | read for your self... it should work, shouldn't it? |
12:16.13 | cmartin | i noticed something that may have to do with the same thing: |
12:17.24 | cmartin | after the bootlogo comes up and the reconfiguring of packages start - USB messages from the kernel garble the reconfiguring part and moves it down a row |
12:18.25 | prh | mickeyl: seems potato has been relegated in the debian archive... and netbase is fetched from a non-existant location now... how should I fetch it? |
12:18.41 | mickeyl | prh: no idea. |
12:18.47 | mickeyl | prh: look for a mirror |
12:19.22 | prh | hmm - why are we using such an old netbase anyway? |
12:19.35 | mickeyl | cmartin: that's definitly wrong. chvt2 changes to vt2 and the echo says don't dump kernel messages to the active console... |
12:19.41 | mickeyl | prh: because noone has upgraded it yet |
12:20.06 | mickeyl | prh: you can't just update something without thinking 'bout the consequences, e.g. in this case |
12:20.24 | mickeyl | newer netbase change /etc/interfaces format which would break all userspaces tools relying on that |
12:20.39 | mickeyl | prh: so generally spoken, you have to think a lot about the consequences before updating anything |
12:21.07 | prh | the changes weren't that dramatic though were they? |
12:21.42 | prh | of course that could help explain why I can't get my wcf11 working under OZ or the sharp rom |
12:21.51 | mickeyl | weren't ? |
12:21.58 | mickeyl | we didn't update the package |
12:22.15 | prh | "newer netbase change /etc/interfaces format" |
12:22.27 | mickeyl | "which would break" |
12:22.30 | mickeyl | future tense |
12:22.43 | prh | I'm lost :O) |
12:23.07 | mickeyl | newer netbase packages are around, but we didn't update because of said reasons. |
12:23.37 | prh | ok, gotcha. bah, I'm still hoping on that day that I manage to do an OZ build :O) |
12:24.08 | fdask | prh: how long ya been at it? |
12:24.26 | cmartin | mickeyl: k, after reboot the cursor is no longer there, but kernel messages are still being displayed to the FB |
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12:24.46 | prh | fdask: since early August. |
12:25.11 | fdask | :o |
12:25.14 | prh | fdask: I try few a few hours every few days but there's always things that fail I end up giving up |
12:25.42 | fdask | im sure you've learned a lot in that time though, right? |
12:25.50 | prh | not really |
12:26.19 | fdask | took me about 6 days of fiddling to get my first image built. flashed it this morning. |
12:26.21 | prh | doesn't help that I'm probably not meant to be using bk because I've been fiddling a little with arch/tla |
12:26.35 | prh | fdask: what machine is that for? |
12:26.40 | fdask | 5500 |
12:27.05 | prh | cool |
12:27.14 | fdask | prh: what machine u trying to compile for? |
12:27.25 | prh | I'm currently working on making Debian work nicely from SD card on a 750 |
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12:28.30 | prh | I've made an init script that will pivot to a debian install on SD and run the real init there (of failing that on ROM) so if there is a debian install on a plugged in SD card... debian boots nicely. just need to usb and pcmcia stuff working nicely |
12:28.44 | prh | the init should work on any Z I guess |
12:29.01 | Twiun | prh: does SD on the 7x0 series work faster than on the old zaurii? |
12:29.22 | prh | no idea |
12:29.37 | prh | want me to try bonnie on it? |
12:30.04 | Twiun | bonnie? |
12:32.13 | mithro | hello |
12:32.14 | cmartin | Twiun: why should SD work faster - SD is in itself slow (CF for example is much faster) |
12:34.59 | mickeyl | cmartin: you might want to make sure, you're on vt2 with Opie (see /etc/init.d/opie and cat stuff to /dev/tty2) and that /proc/sys/kernel/printk really contains 2. might also experiment with echoing "1" or "0" to .../printk |
12:40.12 | Twiun | cmartin: I wasn't sure if they'd enabled the additional datalines |
12:44.42 | cmartin | mickeyl: here's the important part of /etc/init.d/opie: |
12:44.45 | cmartin | echo "Starting Opie..." >/dev/tty1 |
12:44.47 | cmartin | <PROTECTED> |
12:44.49 | cmartin | <PROTECTED> |
12:45.47 | cmartin | # cat /proc/sys/kernel/printk |
12:45.48 | cmartin | 7 4 1 7 |
12:48.37 | cmartin | mickeyl: is that correct that "chvt 1" is executed after starting Opie? - and printk doesn't seem to contain "2" either |
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12:53.11 | noda | Moo! |
12:56.17 | prh | Twiun: disc speed tester |
12:57.17 | prh | cmartin: on machines with full sd support there are 4 data lines rather than 1 (which is the mmc standard) so SD cards can be potentially 4 times faster than mmc... if the hardware has the 4 data lines... the old Z's dont... there are rumours that the newer ones do |
12:58.07 | noda | prh: The actual flash writing procedure is the bottleneck though, isn't it? So sending data over 4 lines wouldn't make it any faster.... |
12:58.44 | cmartin | prh: k thanx for that clarification |
12:59.47 | prh | np |
13:00.07 | cmartin | mickeyl: it seems the "echo "2" >/proc/sys/kernel/printk" in /etc/init.d/banner isn't successful - after running it manually the messages are gone from the FB |
13:00.11 | prh | noda: no the mmc line data rate is much slower than newer flash |
13:00.25 | prh | noda: and data reads on flash are much faster than writes... |
13:00.35 | noda | prh: I'm not talking about the line data rate. I'm talking about -- ah :) |
13:01.00 | noda | Oh, I am talking about it. |
13:01.02 | noda | Ah, I'm completely wrong :) |
13:01.06 | noda | Thanks for clearing that up :) |
13:01.14 | prh | np :O) |
13:07.57 | cmartin | mickeyl: i think the problem is that /proc is mounted after banner is executed - look: |
13:08.42 | cmartin | # ls -al /etc/rcS.d/ |
13:08.44 | cmartin | drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 0 Jan 1 1970 . |
13:08.46 | cmartin | drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 0 Jan 1 1970 .. |
13:08.47 | cmartin | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 Jan 1 1970 S01banner -> ../init.d/banner |
13:08.48 | cmartin | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 17 Jan 1 1970 S01devices -> ../init.d/devices |
13:08.50 | cmartin | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 22 Jan 1 1970 S10checkroot.sh -> ../init.d/checkroot.sh;.... in checkroot /proc is mounted |
13:10.07 | cmartin | mickeyl: are you still there? - i feel like i'm talking to a wall |
13:11.12 | Twiun | hmmm |
13:11.29 | Twiun | cmartin: have you tried changing the order? |
13:11.50 | cmartin | Twiun: no but i will do that now |
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13:16.11 | mickeyl | many tasks here |
13:16.20 | mickeyl | can't watch the windows all the time .) |
13:16.22 | mickeyl | let me see |
13:17.01 | mickeyl | cmartin: your analysis seems good |
13:18.05 | mickeyl | cmartin: fixing that might be easy |
13:18.17 | cmartin | Twiun, mickeyl: moving S01banner to S15banner didn't help |
13:18.55 | mickeyl | hmmm |
13:18.58 | mickeyl | it shoudl |
13:21.21 | mickeyl | cmartin: try mounting /proc in banner |
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13:21.34 | bobbyd | hi |
13:21.55 | bobbyd | I'd like to apologise for my ranting last night. it had been a long day and I was in a foul mood. |
13:22.24 | chouimat | morning |
13:22.45 | bobbyd | am I right in thinking that there is no ALSA driver for the zaurus in the buildroot? I grepped for alsa but just found files for the ipaq |
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13:26.31 | Twiun | mickeyl: seen the new HP Ipaq H2210/H2215 preview on TomsHardware? |
13:26.47 | mickeyl | Twiun: not yet |
13:27.39 | mickeyl | Twiun: have an URL handy? |
13:27.51 | cmartin | mickeyl: tried moving banner to S37 even and mounting /proc within it - no success - /proc/sys/kernel/printk still contains 7 and not 2 after reboot |
13:27.52 | mickeyl | bobbyd: no ALSA driver for Zaurus |
13:28.05 | bobbyd | mickeyl: ok great, I'll set about writing one then ;) |
13:28.16 | mickeyl | bobbyd: now that would be damn cool! |
13:28.18 | mickeyl | :) |
13:28.29 | Twiun | mickeyl: for all the faults of the MS OS, I quite like the look/layout of the screen apps |
13:28.29 | mickeyl | cmartin: odd |
13:28.33 | Twiun | mickeyl: sure, one sec |
13:28.43 | bobbyd | mickeyl: shouldnt be too difficult. do you have a list of the zaurus' chips? including the sound chip? |
13:29.00 | Twiun | mickeyl: http://www.tomshardware.com/newsletter/vol3/36/ipaq.html |
13:29.01 | mickeyl | bobbyd: well - its not that easy as you think |
13:29.13 | mickeyl | bobbyd: iirc it is a sharp custom chip |
13:29.20 | bobbyd | mickeyl: you mean finding the info on the chip? |
13:29.21 | bobbyd | ahh ok |
13:29.33 | bobbyd | so the specs arent open? |
13:29.47 | mickeyl | bobbyd: specs are available, but in japanese |
13:29.50 | mickeyl | Twiun: thanks |
13:29.51 | bobbyd | anyway, I'll have a look when I get home tonight, I'm sure I'll be able to sort it out |
13:29.59 | mickeyl | bobbyd: good. for which machine, btw? |
13:30.02 | bobbyd | mickeyl: that's fine, I have a japanese friend |
13:30.19 | bobbyd | mickeyl: well, I have a c700, so for that for a start |
13:31.17 | mickeyl | bobbyd: best seems to dive through the embedix patches and look how lineo did it. iirc the name of the chipset is written in the comments |
13:31.29 | mickeyl | Twiun: dull OS, sexy hardware. |
13:31.47 | mickeyl | Twiun: however I won't buy another PDA without WLAN integrated. |
13:32.09 | Twiun | mickeyl: dull perhaps, but the simplicity of the look seems more appropriate for a small screen.... PalmOS is still the pinnacle for me |
13:32.41 | Twiun | mickeyl: I find the Opie/Qtopia desktop-isms innapropriate |
13:32.52 | Twiun | ibot: spell inappropriate |
13:32.53 | | 'inappropriate' may be spelled correctly |
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13:34.37 | mithro | specially the taskbar - couldn't stand not know what was running on my pocketpc |
13:35.07 | mickeyl | Twiun: you're right in that. |
13:35.43 | mithro | Twiun: which desktop-isms don't you like? |
13:37.13 | Twiun | mithro: the top buttons and the taskbar mainly |
13:37.25 | mickeyl | Twiun: i like versatile controls (read widgets) though, IMO the problem is just the chunky default look of the Qt widgets. I think with a dedicated lightweight Opie widget theme, we would rule! |
13:37.26 | Twiun | mithro: I'm not too hot on the tabs on the root desktop either :) |
13:38.37 | Twiun | mickeyl: agreed, the versatility is important |
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13:40.21 | Twiun | something I find nice as an architectural feature is to define Actions for a program - not necessarily tie that action with particular widgets though |
13:40.43 | Twiun | so the close button's action could be operated through a different visual mechanism |
13:41.14 | Twiun | or removed completely and have the app close/hibernate after being in the background for a period of time |
13:41.41 | Twiun | here we go for some PalmOS-isms :) |
13:41.44 | mickeyl | Twiun: you have good ideas. Help us with Opie 2.x. - there we will decouple the launcher, taskbar and inputmethods. |
13:42.42 | Twiun | mickeyl: kergoth and I brainstormed a while back about the pluggable launcher - so my ideas do come through. I'll try to find time to help with opie 2.x |
13:43.13 | chouimat | mickeyl: opie 2.x will on qt3? |
13:43.26 | bobbyd | when I put my zaurus in standby mode, what actually happens? what's draining the battery? |
13:44.37 | bobbyd | I'm wondering if there's still work to be done on prolonging the battery life in standby mode as the battery doesnt seem to last very long |
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13:45.50 | yeiazel | doesn't seem to last very long ? |
13:46.04 | mickeyl | chouimat: definitly. we will start developing it on top of qt3. most likely, bevor we release, TT will release qt4 |
13:46.49 | chouimat | mickeyl: I heard that the snapshot will beging very soon |
13:46.52 | yeiazel | bobbyd: I've been able to use my Z without charging the battery 3 weeks |
13:47.30 | yeiazel | +"during" |
13:47.50 | Twiun | mickeyl: TT have given a lead time for Qt4? |
13:48.50 | mickeyl | chouimat,Twiun: we're anticipating a solid beta release in Q1/2004. Qt4 will rock for embedded systems. Early in-house tests have reported a 33% drawing speedup |
13:49.23 | mickeyl | by that time, OZ will have migrated to uclibc and g++3 giving even more speedup |
13:50.03 | chouimat | mickeyl: i was in n7y when tt give a talk about qt4 |
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13:51.43 | mickeyl | chouimat: n7y ? |
13:51.55 | Twiun | mickeyl: Nice! Namespaces support? |
13:52.06 | chouimat | mickeyl: nove hrady the kde conference |
13:52.25 | mickeyl | chouimat: ah so you got it straight from the horses mouth :) |
13:52.54 | chouimat | mickeyl: from mattias ettrich, he was doing the speech |
13:54.27 | mickeyl | cool |
13:54.29 | mickeyl | how is he? |
13:54.35 | mickeyl | geeky or "normal" ? ;) |
13:55.19 | chouimat | mickeyl: somewhat normal geek :) he spoke to me about two or three time that week. |
13:56.04 | bobbyd | yeiazel: well using the OZ version for the c700 I only get about 4-6 hours in standby mode |
13:56.41 | bobbyd | yeiazel: are you loggin out each time you shut dowm, or just using standby mode? |
13:58.34 | yeiazel | just standby |
13:58.39 | yeiazel | with a 5000d |
13:59.11 | bobbyd | yeiazel: ok, there's probably something that hasnt been done yet for the 'collie' build, is the c700 the collie? |
13:59.26 | yeiazel | ibot: collie |
13:59.27 | | i guess collie is sharp sl-5500 and sl-5000d, or a dog |
13:59.42 | bobbyd | ibot: corgie |
13:59.43 | | bobbyd: i haven't a clue |
13:59.50 | bobbyd | ibot: c700 |
13:59.51 | | hmm... c700 is http://zaurus.kruss.com/files/zaurus2003/, or http://www.dynamism.com/zaurus/, or http://shop.conics.net/pda/zaurus-sl-c700/images |
14:00.00 | bobbyd | hehe :) |
14:00.06 | mickeyl | ibot: corgi |
14:00.08 | | methinks corgi is sharp sl-c700, or a dog |
14:00.15 | yeiazel | Poodle (5600/b500), Corgi (c700), Shepherd (c750), and Husky (c760) |
14:00.19 | yeiazel | http://www.openzaurus.org/oz_website/content/news |
14:00.21 | yeiazel | :) |
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14:00.40 | yeiazel | and, of course, Collie (5500/5000d) |
14:00.50 | mickeyl | actually, a lot of stuff labelled corgi in kernel is really for corgi+shepherd+husky |
14:01.01 | bobbyd | ah ok |
14:01.41 | bobbyd | also it takes my corgi about 10-30 seconds to go into standby mode. I suppose all this stuff will be getting fixed. I'll build the buildroot and test that. |
14:02.15 | mickeyl | bobbyd: already improved |
14:02.19 | mickeyl | bobbyd: 5 seconds now |
14:02.22 | bobbyd | mickeyl: excellent |
14:02.35 | bipolar | bobbyd: I've got the same prob with my 5500. |
14:02.36 | bobbyd | gotta work, bye ;) |
14:02.46 | mickeyl | bobbyd: test usb for us, please. we fixed that (hopefully), but noone tested yet. |
14:03.05 | mule | mickeyl: also fixed for poodle? |
14:03.12 | mickeyl | bipolar: that's known. kergoth b0rke hotplug for collie |
14:03.34 | bipolar | does oe build a system image compareable with buildroot yet? |
14:03.34 | mickeyl | bipolar: currently, too get a working collie build, you have to downgrade 3 packages to OZ3.2-versions |
14:05.09 | stigger | hi all whats the ope-quicklauncher in the wox feed |
14:05.57 | mickeyl | opie-quicklauncher is a part of the Opie 1.0.2 fast-launch scheme. |
14:06.01 | chouimat | hmmm this release is internaly know as Syphilis |
14:06.10 | mickeyl | *lol* |
14:06.17 | mickeyl | mule: i think so |
14:06.48 | chouimat | mickeyl: I'm wondering if it's the disease that the secretary didn't get yet ... |
14:07.23 | stigger | so any idea why after I ipkg-upgrade I cannot start any programs from the launcher |
14:10.52 | mickeyl | stigger: you must upgrade _all_ opie packages or it won't work. and you need the quicklauncher. |
14:11.10 | *** join/#openembedded pb_ (~pb@dsl-62-3-66-201.zen.co.uk) |
14:11.15 | mickeyl | stigger: i recommend flashing the complete image. upgrading probably doesn't work anyway |
14:12.49 | stigger | yeah I'm downloading it now thought I maight get away with it |
14:13.07 | mickeyl | stigger: please report problems here. I consider that snapshot to be |
14:13.25 | mickeyl | a release candidate for OZ 3.2.6 |
14:13.41 | stigger | ok |
14:13.46 | mickeyl|bbl | thanx |
14:14.04 | cmartin | mickeyl: BTW: in my opie image with opie-quicklauncher it isn't version 1.0.2, but rather 1.0.1-1 |
14:14.15 | stigger | it's midnight here so don't expect anything soon |
14:15.52 | mickeyl | cmartin: yes. we changed versioning for better upgrading, because we had problems upgrading from 1.0.2-snapshot to 1.0.2. so we just call it 1.0.1.x before incrementing. |
14:16.08 | mickeyl | it will be called 1.0.2 when 1.0.2 is released. |
14:16.08 | cmartin | k |
14:18.14 | mickeyl | cmartin: btw., how do you like the fast app launching? |
14:18.34 | stigger | cool the icons bounce now |
14:18.39 | mickeyl | hehe |
14:18.55 | pb_ | hi chaps |
14:18.57 | mickeyl | stigger: like that? devels are disputing about that. |
14:19.01 | mickeyl | hi pb_ |
14:19.17 | mickeyl | pb_: how's your gpe-integration progressing? |
14:19.43 | stigger | I don't think it looks as professional but it looks cool |
14:19.52 | pb_ | mickeyl: I think libgpewidget is correctly integrated and should build out of the box. I need to tweak the makefiles in the other applications to add the appropriate pkg-config stuff. |
14:20.30 | mickeyl | pb_: sounds good. |
14:20.32 | pb_ | I'll see if I can find some time later today to work on that. |
14:21.02 | mickeyl | pb_: if you got that, it's time to do a bootmenu |
14:21.42 | pb_ | yeah, that'd be good. |
14:21.58 | pb_ | oh, and matchbox didn't compile last time I tried. maybe someone could prod mallum about that. |
14:23.33 | mule | mickeyl: ok thanks |
14:24.31 | cmartin | mickeyl: k, added 'echo "2" >/proc/sys/kernel/printk" to /etc/init.d/opie and moved banner to S25 (to keep the USB messages from modutils from garbeling the banner) |
14:25.27 | cmartin | mickeyl: i don't know if it is good idea to put that in /etc/init.d/opie, but since we're using our own version of that for the Simpad it probably doesn't matter |
14:25.52 | mickeyl | cmartin: yes for adding that to init.d/opie |
14:26.02 | mickeyl | cmartin: as for moving banner to S25 i don't like that |
14:26.11 | mickeyl | cmartin: seems very intrusive to the whole boot process |
14:26.20 | mickeyl | cmartin: we need to discuss that |
14:26.27 | mickeyl | with the others |
14:26.35 | cmartin | mickeyl: well i just did it on my simpad, not in buildroot |
14:27.10 | absentia | re |
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14:59.50 | CIA | repository=03buildroot user=11cmartin@nb005 |
14:59.52 | CIA | 07ChangeSet@1.1314 fixed kernel messages on opie fb on the simpad |
15:17.15 | mickey | ibot: seen andersee |
15:17.15 | | andersee <~andersee@codepoet.org> was last seen on IRC in channel #elinux, 6h 12m 37s ago, saying: 'fontenot: well, it compiled for me...'. |
15:17.25 | mickey | hrmpf |
15:31.38 | kergoth | yo |
15:31.58 | absentia | y0 |
15:32.58 | Twiun | hey |
15:36.28 | treke | mornin |
15:37.15 | kergoth | treke: send me a pub key and i'll give you OE push access |
15:39.12 | treke | has to be ssh v1? |
15:39.35 | kergoth | yeah |
15:39.38 | kergoth | stupid bkbits |
15:40.23 | treke | sent. Think I have dosfstools, e2fsprogs, and something else |
15:44.37 | koyote | hrm |
15:44.48 | koyote | first thing I get is a recursive dependency |
15:48.07 | koyote | afk a bit |
15:48.58 | kergoth | k, pushed the silly patcher recursive dep fix |
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15:51.26 | kergoth | heh, i didnt notice before |
15:51.33 | kergoth | but commit -d works alot better in OE |
15:51.38 | kergoth | since the filenames are all different |
15:51.43 | kergoth | dont need the path to know whats what |
15:56.59 | treke | ~lart people who use SDL for games on the zaurus |
15:57.05 | kergoth | hehe |
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15:59.17 | Twiun | too right! use the console like everyone else! |
16:00.56 | Twiun | kergoth: what's the expected behaviour if running ./bin/oebuild without arguments? |
16:02.02 | kergoth | Twiun: depends on context. |
16:02.13 | kergoth | Twiun: if there's an oe file in the current dir, it builds that using the 'build' task |
16:02.17 | kergoth | for convenience |
16:02.25 | kergoth | if there isnt, it dumps usage information |
16:03.55 | Twiun | hmmm |
16:04.10 | Twiun | I was running it from the oe root dir.... |
16:04.16 | Twiun | it definately _wasn't_ happy |
16:04.42 | Twiun | NOTE: package oe-1.0_20030910-r0: task do_install started |
16:04.42 | Twiun | install: cannot stat `/usr/share/oe/bin/oemake': No such file or directory |
16:04.43 | kergoth | oe root dir contains a .oe |
16:04.59 | kergoth | hmm thats odd, your D var didnt get set. note the absolute path |
16:05.58 | kergoth | did the other tasks complete fine? |
16:06.12 | Twiun | yup, the ones before that did |
16:06.18 | kergoth | strange. |
16:06.30 | kergoth | works here |
16:06.31 | kergoth | hmm |
16:08.41 | Twiun | complains about no SRC_URI, significant? |
16:08.55 | kergoth | harmless, just means theres nothing for it to download |
16:09.25 | kergoth | hmm, should patch libtoolize to accept an alternate path to the libtool share files |
16:11.30 | Twiun | could it be related to the version of python? How can I tell which version I've got? (-h -v --version don't give me that info) |
16:14.47 | kergoth | you need very recent |
16:14.52 | kergoth | 2.2+ |
16:16.57 | Twiun | yeah, python-2.2.2-6mdk installed |
16:18.10 | kergoth | hmmm |
16:18.16 | kergoth | go into oe.oe |
16:18.19 | kergoth | do_install function |
16:18.22 | kergoth | echo D is ${D} |
16:18.26 | kergoth | hey mickey |
16:18.41 | mule | is there any filespace in oz that is reccommended for use for multiple read writes? |
16:18.50 | mickey | hi kergoth |
16:20.10 | Twiun | D is /home/twiun/oe/tmp/base/oe-1.0_20030910-r0/image |
16:20.18 | kergoth | weird |
16:20.25 | kergoth | yyp.. echo one of the install commands |
16:20.30 | Twiun | ok |
16:20.40 | Twiun | ... just stick echo in front? |
16:21.13 | kergoth | that function is shell :P |
16:21.26 | kergoth | blah () { } is a shell function executed at task time |
16:21.37 | kergoth | python blah () { } is a python function " " " " |
16:21.46 | Twiun | ahhhh |
16:22.03 | chouimat | http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.10/fileshare.html |
16:23.07 | Twiun | chouimat: You're our userfriendly expert... what's the best cluebat clip? |
16:25.12 | chouimat | Twiun: don't know |
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16:26.06 | chouimat | Twiun: I'm trying to eat my sardines without my cat knowing it :) |
16:26.22 | kergoth | good luck |
16:26.47 | chouimat | kergoth: excatly ... he had a whole can to eat so ... |
16:27.02 | kergoth | weird, libtool just blew up again |
16:27.12 | kergoth | it referenced a SED variable without defining it, thereby exploding horribly |
16:27.15 | kergoth | odd. |
16:27.15 | chouimat | shit he finished his before mine ... |
16:29.28 | mickey | hmm |
16:29.35 | mickey | having problems with libxine |
16:29.44 | mickey | using 3.3.1-uclibc-toolchain i get the following: |
16:29.47 | mickey | during conftest |
16:29.54 | mickey | sr/local/arm/3.3.1-uclibc/lib/gcc-lib/arm-linux/3.3.1/../../../../arm-linux/bin/ld: conftest: hidden symbol `__udivsi3' in /usr/lo |
16:29.54 | mickey | cal/arm/3.3.1-uclibc/lib/gcc-lib/arm-linux/3.3.1/libgcc.a(_udivsi3.oS) is referenced by DSO |
16:29.54 | mickey | collect2: ld returned 1 exit status |
16:30.05 | mickey | now what is that? |
16:30.14 | mickey | and why is it an error |
16:30.30 | kergoth | heh, sounds like an andersee question |
16:30.39 | mickey | right. where is he when I need him |
16:30.39 | mickey | ;) |
16:31.22 | Twiun | kergoth: I'll get back to oe when I get home... |
16:31.26 | kergoth | k |
16:31.37 | kergoth | hmm, filename parsing bug |
16:31.45 | kergoth | libtool-1.4.3-r1.oe breaks badly |
16:31.53 | kergoth | which sucks, since we want ot keep old versions of things around |
16:32.31 | pb_ | mickey: inspect stuff like libc.so for relocs against __udivsi3. |
16:34.00 | mickey | pb_: hmm... that would be uClibC.so |
16:34.18 | mickey | pb_: thanks but i probably cry for help to andersee ;) |
16:34.25 | pb_ | heh, right |
16:42.02 | kergoth | anyone here really good with make? |
16:44.00 | pb_ | (deathly silence ensues) |
16:44.04 | kergoth | hehe |
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16:50.09 | *** join/#openembedded collord (~collord@dt.collord.net) |
16:59.22 | mickey | nah! |
16:59.24 | mickey | ;) |
16:59.31 | treke | mickey: http://treke.net/downloads/PythonDocs.pdb <- complete python manual |
17:00.24 | mickey | .pdb? |
17:00.47 | treke | plucker doc. Readable in opie-reader |
17:00.49 | mickey | aah this is the thing you've converted in the last days ? |
17:01.23 | treke | yup |
17:01.26 | mickey | cool. add a package to buildroot for that :) |
17:01.50 | kergoth | s/add a package to buildroot/add an oe file/ |
17:01.56 | kergoth | ~lart mickey |
17:02.14 | mickey | how 'come i knew you would say that :) |
17:02.24 | mickey | but you're right. we have to start the migration |
17:02.58 | kergoth | treke: how are you liking it so far? |
17:03.08 | kergoth | still has lots of needs, but .. |
17:03.30 | treke | kergoth: only have three things done |
17:03.52 | gb2 | a "quickstart" doc for OE would be nice |
17:04.02 | kergoth | yeah, we need more basic docs |
17:04.08 | kergoth | a buildroot transition guide |
17:04.42 | gb2 | can OE build an installable package of itself easily? |
17:04.47 | kergoth | yes |
17:04.49 | kergoth | thats what oe.oe is |
17:04.56 | gb2 | it looks like it should be able to, but i couldn't figure out how to make it emit a package |
17:04.57 | kergoth | i use it to build rpms for build machines |
17:05.04 | kergoth | INHERIT=package_rpm oebuild oe.oe |
17:05.11 | kergoth | its something the config system would normally decide |
17:05.15 | kergoth | but since we dont have one yet.. |
17:05.26 | kergoth | package_ipk and package_tar are also valid |
17:07.25 | gb2 | ok, cool. |
17:11.36 | gb2 | -rw-r--r-- 1 gbritton users 46970 Sep 10 13:10 oe-1.0_20030910-r0.i686.rpm |
17:11.37 | gb2 | yay |
17:12.01 | gb2 | i needed to do: INHERIT=package_rpm OEDIR=$PWD bin/oebuild oe.oe |
17:12.18 | kergoth | yeah |
17:12.23 | kergoth | thats odd though |
17:12.27 | kergoth | it shoudlve set OEDIR automatically if unset |
17:13.21 | gb2 | i guessed it should have too, figured it tried to get $OEDIR/conf/oe.conf, if it fails, searches for oe.conf and sets OEDIR appropriately |
17:13.41 | gb2 | (atleast.. guessed that from reading comments in oe.conf and the docs) |
17:14.06 | treke | kergoth: The build process has been dirt easy, although some things seem strange |
17:14.48 | kergoth | gb2: yeah, thats correct. actually it should try to find the .conf anywhere in OEPATH |
17:15.00 | kergoth | gb2: oedir and oedir/bin get stuffed in there by default |
17:15.09 | kergoth | i'll kill oedir completely one of these days |
17:15.21 | kergoth | so you can use OEPATH exclusively to control where it looks for things |
17:15.57 | kergoth | its ${PN}-${PV}-${PR} |
17:16.03 | gb2 | so the general way to do a project is, put a bunch of .oe files in a dir with a conf/local.conf and do: OEDIR=<that dir> oemake |
17:16.03 | gb2 | ? |
17:16.04 | kergoth | FILESDIR is set automatically by a python function atm |
17:16.06 | treke | ah |
17:16.10 | kergoth | gb2: yup |
17:16.32 | kergoth | gb2: note that a local.conf isnt required, it defaults to ARCH=BUILD_ARCH, OS=BUILD_OS, BUILD_ARCH and BUILD_OS set by uname |
17:16.39 | kergoth | override whatever you li ke |
17:16.56 | gb2 | most of the stuff I do is cross, so i figured that stuff would go in there, yeah. |
17:17.57 | kergoth | yep |
17:34.17 | gb2 | if you want the pid, you want to fork() and do exec ... |
17:36.51 | mickey | ha! |
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17:37.18 | mickey | linuxtoday.com: LinuxDevices: Linux 2.6: A Breakthrough for Embedded Systems |
17:42.00 | gb2 | because of CONFIG_EMBEDDED ? |
17:44.04 | mickey | nah |
17:44.08 | mickey | because of the new subsystems |
17:44.11 | gb2 | it'd be nice if uclibc built against 2.6.x kernel headers |
17:44.13 | gb2 | it requires 2.4.x |
17:44.14 | mickey | or rather hierachy |
17:44.21 | gb2 | ah. |
17:45.45 | gb2 | nice summary article |
17:56.47 | mickey | ibot: seen Harlekin |
17:56.47 | | harlekin <~max@pD9545F6E.dip.t-dialin.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #opie, 11d 6h 1m 47s ago, saying: 'back in 10 days'. |
17:56.59 | mickey | lol |
18:04.12 | *** join/#openembedded pb_ (~pb@2002:5160:45ef:0:2e0:7dff:fe74:8b87) |
18:13.47 | kergoth`food | ugh, ate too much |
18:13.52 | kergoth`food | need a nap |
18:13.55 | pb_ | hah |
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18:15.21 | BBMatthew | ello people |
18:15.27 | mickey | 'lo |
18:16.26 | kergoth | hey BBMatthew |
18:16.37 | kergoth | so i found #devtools |
18:16.45 | kergoth | they didnt know the solution to my make metadata passing problem either |
18:17.06 | treke | pb_: How goes the gpe packaging? |
18:17.13 | BBMatthew | got the SL5600 buildroot up and running (finally) but it bitches on the make image with libopenobex1 saying its missing some dependencies, namely opie-login opie-aqpkg and qpf-bitstream-vera |
18:17.25 | kergoth | BBMatthew: remove one of the veras |
18:17.26 | BBMatthew | hey kergoth |
18:17.29 | kergoth | dunno bout the others |
18:17.43 | BBMatthew | do I need libopenobex? |
18:17.51 | kergoth | its not libopenobex |
18:17.59 | kergoth | ipkg is misreporting the dependency |
18:18.08 | kergoth | libopenobex depends on something which depends on something etc etc which depends on those things |
18:18.39 | BBMatthew | any way of doing a cleanup? |
18:18.41 | kergoth | chouimat: this must be some definition of "fun" i wasnt previously aware of |
18:18.48 | BBMatthew | short of rebuilding everything :) |
18:18.56 | kergoth | heh |
18:18.57 | gb2 | kergoth: maybe he has a big distcc cluster |
18:18.58 | kergoth | use ccache |
18:19.01 | kergoth | then it doesnt matter much |
18:19.06 | chouimat | kergoth: using one of my customer network as extra compile box ;) |
18:19.07 | kergoth | gb2: possible.. |
18:19.08 | BBMatthew | I do use ccache |
18:19.10 | kergoth | nice |
18:19.15 | kergoth | BBMatthew: then who cares? |
18:19.16 | mickey | BBMatthew: update your sources. opie-login and opie-aqpkg didn't package since yesterday's cvs. |
18:19.29 | kergoth | the only time you're wasting is extracting an dobtaining sources. the build is miniml |
18:19.29 | treke | mickey: What broke it in CVS? |
18:19.43 | mickey | treke: dan forgot to adapt aqpkg |
18:19.44 | BBMatthew | fair enough - is there a shortcut to do that |
18:19.46 | chouimat | kergoth: since he don't want to pay more than 250cad/month for the maintenance .... I'm sucking some cpu time |
18:19.53 | treke | mickey: ah. Is BRANCH usable again? |
18:19.55 | mickey | treke: i forgot that opie-login doesn't need to be quicklaunched |
18:20.05 | mickey | treke: pretty much. |
18:20.12 | treke | finally |
18:20.14 | mickey | treke: conversion to the new launcher is nearly finished. minor issues |
18:20.17 | treke | been wanting to do a new image |
18:20.26 | treke | but i didnt really want to debug the new launcher :) |
18:20.27 | chouimat | wow kdebase in 5 minutes!!!! |
18:20.42 | mickey | treke: ha. sounds familiar to me... i did it anyway though :p |
18:20.49 | BBMatthew | chouimat: what are you building on? |
18:20.58 | chouimat | BBMatthew: pc |
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18:21.04 | pb_ | treke: working on it now |
18:21.15 | pb_ | harlekin still slacking off? |
18:21.26 | treke | still on vacation as far as I know |
18:21.41 | mickey | ibot: seen Harlekin |
18:21.42 | | harlekin <~max@pD9545F6E.dip.t-dialin.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #opie, 11d 6h 26m 42s ago, saying: 'back in 10 days'. |
18:22.59 | BBMatthew | whats the command to buildroot to update its sources? :) I have got the others documented |
18:23.08 | treke | mrproper |
18:23.13 | mickey | naw |
18:23.16 | BBMatthew | oh yes should be able to submit a patch for xine lib soon |
18:23.22 | mickey | best do it manually |
18:23.38 | mickey | ibot: ozscripts |
18:23.39 | | hmm... ozscripts is function ozclean() { rm -rf $stamps/.$1.*; make SUBDIRS=packages/$1 clean-sources; make SUBDIRS=packages/$1 clean-sourcetrees; }, or function ozmake() { make SUBDIRS=packages/$1; }, or function oznew() { ozclean $1 && ozmake $1; } |
18:23.42 | BBMatthew | whap the stamps and the folder in source |
18:25.31 | bipolar | ibot: seen zecke? |
18:25.31 | | zecke <ich@trns-d9b8655c.pool.mediaWays.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #opie, 5d 11m 51s ago, saying: 'bipolar: but pb_ seems to know the problem?!'. |
18:25.45 | mickey | hah, that's a nice quote |
18:25.47 | mickey | :D |
18:26.04 | bipolar | :) |
18:26.09 | pb_ | heh. I wish he didn't sound so surprised. |
18:26.13 | bipolar | lol |
18:26.47 | bipolar | pb_: what are you working on, btw. IIRC you're a kernel hacker, or am I wrong? |
18:27.12 | mickey | pb_ is mr.multi-talent |
18:27.46 | bipolar | heh |
18:28.39 | BBMatthew | how do I get buildroot to update the sources? sorry to be dense but the only options I know are nuclear ones |
18:28.43 | bipolar | Well... I'm just happy that I found out that the kde libs in 3.1.3 are compatible with kitchensync. So I can create a package for debian sid that doesn't try to squish other packages files. |
18:28.45 | gb2 | mickey: made any progress on making uclibc build for you? |
18:28.50 | mickey | BBMatthew: oznew <package> |
18:28.52 | treke | BBMatthew: make SUBDIRS=packages/foo mproper |
18:28.57 | treke | BBMatthew: make SUBDIRS=packages/foo |
18:29.14 | treke | pb is also to guy to blame when debian's glibc blows up |
18:29.23 | bipolar | can oe build a complete flashable image or does it need more work? |
18:29.33 | kergoth | how many times do i have to say this |
18:29.37 | mickey | gb2: yeah - got a 3.3.1-uclibc toolchain to build. next problem is that this thing has a problem with libxine, but i hope andersee knows what to do... |
18:29.39 | kergoth | IT DOESNT HAVE JACK FOR APPLICATIONS IN THE BUILD |
18:29.45 | bipolar | heh... |
18:29.49 | kergoth | do we bulid an image without 90% of what you need to boot? |
18:29.51 | kergoth | fuck no, we dont. |
18:29.53 | pb_ | bipolar: well, right at this minute I'm working on busybox. |
18:29.55 | bipolar | kergoth: I'll remember that. ;) |
18:30.01 | kergoth | its hard to boot without 'init'. |
18:30.04 | bipolar | lol |
18:30.07 | mickey | hard but not impossible |
18:30.07 | bipolar | that it is |
18:30.07 | mickey | :D |
18:30.09 | bipolar | lol |
18:30.10 | gb2 | mickey: standalone build of the toolchain? or did you build it within oe or buildroot? |
18:30.16 | treke | init is overrated |
18:30.20 | kergoth | mickey: if you say init=/usr/bin/python i'll shoot you |
18:30.23 | kergoth | :) |
18:30.25 | mickey | hahaha |
18:30.26 | mickey | :D |
18:30.27 | bipolar | pb_: hahahah |
18:30.35 | mickey | gb2: uclibc-toolchain |
18:30.35 | treke | please say it |
18:30.40 | mickey | init=/usr/env python |
18:30.42 | bipolar | er... that wasn't ment for you pb_ :p |
18:30.47 | mickey | ./usr/bin/env even |
18:31.05 | BBMatthew | cheers |
18:31.18 | pb_ | mickey: heh, that's one of nelson's fantasies as well. |
18:31.34 | treke | oh, so nelson is a freak also? |
18:31.35 | pb_ | he dreams of a system where the only compiled binary is /usr/bin/python. |
18:31.42 | mickey | hehe |
18:31.56 | mickey | that's not my dream... |
18:32.02 | gb2 | i suppose that's better than init=/usr/bin/emacs |
18:32.07 | mickey | my dream is a system where the only compiled interpreter is /usr/bin/python :D |
18:32.46 | treke | pb_: does he also dream of a system that runs like ass on a texas summer day? |
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18:34.11 | BBMatthew | bloody sparcstation!!! |
18:35.29 | gb2 | mickey: uclibc's own toolchain builder? |
18:35.46 | mickey | gb2: yes |
18:35.49 | gb2 | ok |
18:36.10 | mickey | gb2: worked like a charm... for the very first time, actually |
18:36.33 | gb2 | that's almost always worked for me |
18:36.55 | mickey | we probably have a complete uclibc based system by the time of OZ 3.4 |
18:37.09 | mickey | or OpenWhatver 3.4 ;) |
18:37.15 | mickey | Whatever even |
18:37.16 | bipolar | haha |
18:37.29 | treke | maybe we'll get lucky and qpe wont work on it |
18:37.31 | gb2 | OpenPileOfStuff |
18:37.37 | kergoth | so, how are we going to handle the releases? |
18:37.38 | mickey | treke: hehe |
18:37.45 | kergoth | shoudl we manage them simultaniously? |
18:37.49 | kergoth | or completely independent versioning |
18:38.30 | mickey | kergoth: although i'd like the idea of simultaneous versioning it is not practical. E.g. OpenSIMpad is really 0.8.1, not 3.3.x ;) |
18:38.51 | kergoth | yeah |
18:38.54 | treke | koyote: That kind of requires having things in a decent state |
18:39.04 | kergoth | course the problem is, how do you define the feed that matches a given release |
18:39.09 | kergoth | bleh |
18:39.20 | treke | kergoth: Tags |
18:39.24 | koyote | I've seen some distros tie everything to one release number and have /alphaware trees under it |
18:39.27 | kergoth | wonder if official/{branch}/{device}/ is sufficient |
18:39.36 | kergoth | treke: for the build, its easier than that |
18:39.44 | kergoth | treke: just put the OEFILES you used somewhere |
18:39.54 | kergoth | since we keep old versions around |
18:40.00 | koyote | official/{stable/alphaware}/{device} ? |
18:40.13 | kergoth | branch is stable/testing/unstable |
18:40.21 | koyote | ah, cool |
18:40.33 | kergoth | possibly experimental as well, for really testing stuff |
18:40.35 | mickey | well... we also need to distinguish gcc2.x and gcc3.x - and maybe soon gcc3.x-uclibc |
18:40.38 | kergoth | i.e. new device work |
18:40.38 | koyote | that seems reasonable. not all devices will be in stable. |
18:40.51 | bipolar | Are we going to have completely seperate feeds for each device? Could we instead have feeds for binary compatible devices and then have task packages to handle device specific info and setup? Is this my ass talking? :p |
18:40.58 | kergoth | mickey: well, gcc2.x vs 3.x in qte/opie space. the base will be gcc3 regardless |
18:41.03 | kergoth | bipolar: its your ass talking |
18:41.07 | mickey | kergoth: right |
18:41.08 | koyote | though you may want to add pplaceholder directories. like in stable/shepherd have a text file that says use unstable. |
18:41.10 | kergoth | we dont fully exercise ipkg Architecture |
18:41.16 | kergoth | if we did, we could have more commonality |
18:41.17 | bipolar | kergoth: THank you.. I'll take care of that right away... |
18:41.22 | mickey | hehe |
18:41.28 | treke | Another question is, how many feeds to we need? |
18:41.31 | mickey | no really, unifying feeds as much as possible is needed |
18:41.47 | mickey | it's a waste of time, bandwidth and packagers @ the moment |
18:41.50 | kergoth | otherwise we have 3 per device, not accounting gcc2/3 and uclibc/glibc |
18:42.04 | kergoth | 12 feeds per device seems rather excessive. |
18:42.13 | gb2 | what's the kernel issue with gcc3.x? |
18:42.17 | kergoth | ? |
18:42.19 | gb2 | is it actually gcc building things wrong? |
18:42.21 | kergoth | some kernels build with it, others dont. |
18:42.27 | treke | zarusu, ipaqsa, ipaqsa, and simpad |
18:42.29 | gb2 | or is it the code needs some fixing? |
18:42.37 | kergoth | gb2: you have to patch the kernel to get it to build with gcc3. |
18:42.44 | treke | zarusu, ipaqsa, zauruspxa, and simpad |
18:42.45 | koyote | I'd really like to see a source feed for onboard building. it may be lidicrously time consuming for rebuilding opie, but for smaller apps, it gives people a good way to play with software. |
18:42.45 | bipolar | hmmm... what if we just had a feed for B/C and one that works the best? DOes ulibc work on all targets? |
18:42.52 | gb2 | ok, so it's a kernel bug, not a gcc bug |
18:42.52 | kergoth | koyote: you dont need a feed. |
18:43.02 | kergoth | koyote: just install the OE ipk and build our oe metadata repos. |
18:43.05 | koyote | (of course, you have to include the source for opie, too. so that ludicrous people can compile) |
18:43.11 | kergoth | our source tools are _independent_ of build box |
18:43.22 | kergoth | unlike nearly every other distro build tool |
18:43.29 | koyote | hrm. |
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18:43.53 | koyote | there has to be a centralized place to get the sources, that's all |
18:43.56 | koyote | :) |
18:44.04 | kergoth | no, theres a centralized place to get the metadata. |
18:44.06 | mickey | this is not feasible |
18:44.14 | kergoth | the sources could come from any number of OE source mirrors |
18:44.15 | mickey | you'll never have such a centralized place |
18:44.35 | mickey | metadata are enough + some heuristic logic for autobuilds |
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18:45.02 | kergoth | we do need to cache sources on mirrors though, so that could be considered semicentral |
18:45.13 | kergoth | but its important to note that our metadata doesnt reside in the same location |
18:45.38 | koyote | hard to do a wget and archive a state that way. |
18:45.44 | kergoth | ? |
18:45.46 | kergoth | not really. |
18:46.56 | koyote | i suppose one could download according to the metadata |
18:47.03 | kergoth | uh, thats what OE and buildroot does. |
18:47.07 | kergoth | heh |
18:47.31 | kergoth | fetch -> unpack -> patch -> compile -> stage -> install -> package |
18:47.53 | kergoth | (with a liberal sprinkling of other tasks like tmake .pro creation, ipk creation, etc) |
18:48.52 | koyote | I think it may be hung |
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18:53.14 | kergoth | i was reminded when i had to run a ./configure for apache on the ipaq cluster |
18:53.21 | kergoth | christ did that take a long time, and that wasnt even compiling |
18:53.22 | kergoth | :) |
18:53.23 | gb2 | heh.. native OZ builds |
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18:55.25 | bipolar | that was a long, long time ago |
18:55.47 | Twiun | rehi |
18:56.11 | pb_ | kergoth: yeah, ./configure is one workload that arm handles particularly poorly. |
18:57.27 | pb_ | in fact, any shell script is likely to be bad news. |
18:58.11 | Twiun | why's that? |
18:58.29 | pb_ | lots of forks. |
18:58.42 | pb_ | any context switch on strongarm will toast your cache. |
19:00.37 | Twiun | ah |
19:09.51 | koyote | okay, the Z is hung |
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19:34.16 | treke | ~lart gcc 3.3.1 |
19:34.31 | treke | this std::time_put thing is getting annoying |
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20:01.03 | kergoth | bleh. |
20:01.13 | gb2 | nice.. birthday cake at work |
20:01.15 | gb2 | with ice cream |
20:01.16 | gb2 | mmm |
20:01.55 | koyote | okay |
20:01.58 | koyote | the z won't flash |
20:02.10 | fdask | :o |
20:02.13 | kergoth | koyote: how wonderfully descriptive of you1 |
20:02.13 | fdask | no way! |
20:02.21 | koyote | it just powers off when I select 'yes' |
20:02.22 | kergoth | ~lart koyote |
20:02.34 | koyote | mmmmmmm, solaris |
20:02.48 | kergoth | hehe |
20:03.32 | koyote | yep, it goes through the slection process |
20:03.38 | koyote | then powers off when I press enter |
20:03.49 | kergoth | is your AC plugged in? |
20:03.52 | kergoth | and stuff |
20:03.56 | koyote | I think i've done something bad. or the last flash i tried ot install did |
20:04.12 | koyote | yeah, AC. battery door and switch, all good |
20:04.26 | kergoth | hmm |
20:04.33 | koyote | I tries the rest option, too |
20:04.36 | koyote | same thing |
20:04.47 | koyote | and a normal power on doesn't work. |
20:04.55 | kergoth | strange, almost like the kernel it uses to do the flash got corrupted |
20:04.57 | kergoth | (in mtd1) |
20:05.00 | kergoth | what device is this again? |
20:05.06 | koyote | 750 |
20:05.18 | gb2 | koyote: do a DM flash restore? |
20:05.21 | kergoth | did you make a full nand backup at any point? |
20:05.26 | kergoth | exactly |
20:05.42 | koyote | actually, I hadn't found out that I was supposed to |
20:05.54 | kergoth | hehe, you dont _have_ to |
20:05.59 | kergoth | but its nice in case you mtd1 gets hosed |
20:06.09 | kergoth | mine was, but thats cause i was flashing manually and fucking with the flash process in updater.sh |
20:09.02 | koyote | so, where do I get the appropriate files for the 750? |
20:09.08 | gb2 | google? |
20:09.15 | koyote | I found instructions here: |
20:09.20 | *** join/#openembedded SuKoSh| (~sukoshi@dyn-195-242-111-101.ppp.tiscali.fr) |
20:09.26 | koyote | http://pocketworkstation.org/files/recover/README-flash-recover.txt |
20:09.47 | koyote | I don't speak japanese well enough to navigate the relevant google results |
20:10.28 | gb2 | not seen that procedure |
20:10.51 | koyote | I'd love verification if anyone has :) |
20:12.46 | gb2 | http://downloads.conics.net/pda/zaurus-sl-c700/service-menus/ |
20:13.25 | gb2 | http://downloads.conics.net/pda/zaurus-sl-c700/service-menus/original-backups/SL-C750-nand-backup-jp.zip |
20:13.28 | gb2 | you want this |
20:14.40 | cyn_ | koyote: use babelfish.altavista.com to translate japanese pages you can't understand |
20:14.48 | gb2 | http://externe.net/zaurus/forum/viewtopic.php?t=388 |
20:14.52 | gb2 | follow these instructions |
20:15.22 | gb2 | that c750 zip file should have SYSTC750.DBK in it, put it on a CF card and do the NAND Flash Restore from the DM menu |
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20:26.09 | kergoth | bleh. |
20:26.10 | kergoth | bleh, i say. |
20:26.40 | prpplague | kergoth: bleh bleh |
20:27.42 | kergoth | prpplague: in your free time (ha ha) do me a favor and loook at the new OE build tools |
20:28.25 | prpplague | kergoth: i'm on weekend duty this weekend, i'll have a look then |
20:28.48 | kergoth | k |
20:29.08 | kergoth | need more eyes on it so we can clean up any remaining issues |
20:33.13 | koyote | let's hope it works. |
20:33.56 | koyote | go little green bar. |
20:38.19 | koyote | now to find the real stock kernel image |
20:38.43 | *** join/#openembedded leffe (~leffe@as5-6-1.h.s.bonet.se) |
20:43.22 | koyote | looks good. |
20:47.37 | *** join/#openembedded lsmith (~vandal@p213.54.51.34.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
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21:00.38 | kergoth | treke: i'm going to split oemake's knowledge of what oe files exist vs what we want to build |
21:00.55 | kergoth | today |
21:01.25 | kergoth | so you could do something like OEFILES=$HOME/packages/content/*.oe, leave that laone, and just oemake glibc |
21:01.29 | kergoth | or what have you |
21:01.56 | kergoth | thatd improve the user interface big time |
21:03.29 | gb2 | kergoth: so "oemake glibc" would build glibc, and everything glibc needs to build if it isn't already staged? |
21:03.59 | kergoth | right |
21:04.09 | kergoth | assuming all its deps are satisfied by something in OEFILES |
21:04.29 | kergoth | otherwise that package and anything that depends on it will be removed from the build execution digraph and warn you |
21:04.42 | kergoth | cool thing is, it makes it _alot_ easier for upstream users of OE |
21:04.43 | kergoth | for example |
21:04.46 | gb2 | *nod* |
21:04.47 | kergoth | say you maintain tslib |
21:04.54 | kergoth | you create tslib.oe in your repos for making rpms and shit from it |
21:05.00 | kergoth | oebuild<cr> to build it |
21:05.05 | kergoth | oemake<cr> to build it and all deps |
21:05.10 | kergoth | heh |
21:06.12 | koyote | well, the initrd on zug sucks rocks |
21:06.23 | kergoth | initrd on zug? |
21:06.40 | koyote | zaurususersgroup.org initrd for the 750. |
21:06.44 | kergoth | ah |
21:06.49 | mickeyl|Ole | *cough* |
21:06.52 | koyote | it's a variation on the stock image. |
21:06.56 | kergoth | tell em to use buildroot |
21:07.03 | kergoth | hey mickeyl |
21:07.06 | mickeyl | hiho |
21:07.11 | koyote | it doesn't even have proper character support. |
21:14.33 | ljp | As The SCO Turns.... |
21:16.02 | mewyn | hey. no cussing in here |
21:22.34 | kergoth | k sysvinit's in OE |
21:22.56 | kergoth | need to figure out how to express devicetable like permissions changes when it creates a tarball in the package_tar oeclass |
21:23.08 | killefiz | kergoth: how far from creating working images is oe? |
21:23.20 | kergoth | killefiz: a lot of packages still need to be converted over |
21:23.31 | kergoth | I mean, i just converted init |
21:23.34 | kergoth | heh |
21:24.19 | killefiz | ok - i'll keep on trying to build an ipaq image with the old buildroot then |
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21:25.05 | kergoth | killefiz: thatd be best |
21:25.16 | kergoth | There wont be another OZ release before the transition |
21:25.23 | kergoth | there will, however, be a set of new experimentals |
21:25.56 | killefiz | a 2.4.2x based image with sd-support would rock |
21:26.05 | killefiz | (for the zaurus of course) |
21:26.07 | chouimat | hmmm boring night in perspective |
21:26.15 | kergoth | thats pending me having time to finish the driver |
21:26.19 | kergoth | which isnt looking to be likely for a while yet |
21:26.20 | bipolar | killefiz: I 2nd that.... |
21:26.28 | killefiz | kergoth: :( |
21:26.30 | killefiz | bad news |
21:26.41 | chouimat | kergoth: any plan for a 2.6.0-test5-mm1 kernel for the collie? |
21:26.49 | kergoth | TI has me working on OE atm, so thats my focus on the side too, i'm in buildsystem mode |
21:26.52 | kergoth | chouimat: yes. |
21:27.00 | kergoth | chouimat: i already have a 2.5.x tree somewhere that was semifunctional |
21:27.02 | kergoth | just never got around to finishing it |
21:27.07 | kergoth | that was before i did the 2.4.21 work |
21:27.07 | killefiz | ouhh .. that is better news then |
21:27.18 | kergoth | so just pull that forward, and look at some device model bits, and we're set |
21:27.23 | chouimat | kergoth: ok ... back to kolab install mode |
21:28.01 | killefiz | noone who has ever tried one of the 2.4.18 sharp images is likely to try/use oz again before a new kernel |
21:28.10 | kergoth | yep |
21:28.26 | kergoth | i'm fine with less users in the short term |
21:28.30 | kergoth | given the transition, thats actually best |
21:28.52 | killefiz | so we would need someone who can work on the sd driver |
21:29.09 | mewyn | http://newsobserver.com/news/story/2855036p-2634600c.html |
21:29.29 | kergoth | well more specifically, you need someone with the nda's sharp locomo doc and kernel experience, and tiem to give to the project |
21:29.40 | kergoth | s/nda's/nda'd/ |
21:30.16 | killefiz | oh - i got the impression that there would be code that would allow development withouth being bound by an nda |
21:30.26 | kergoth | no |
21:30.29 | kergoth | the core mmc code is open |
21:30.30 | ljp | nda scmnda |
21:30.34 | chouimat | kergoth: the problem is I not sure if I have enough time for it |
21:30.45 | kergoth | the Z propietary chip involved we had to get the specs under nda |
21:31.16 | chouimat | kergoth: only need the chapter 6? |
21:31.36 | kergoth | yeah, the chapter effy translated |
21:31.53 | kergoth | thats sufficient, just need to use that to get the Z mmc slot driver interfacing with locomo's spi |
21:32.15 | chouimat | kergoth: will check this weekend if I have enough time in the next few weeks |
21:32.16 | killefiz | no chance to use the 2.4.18 binary with 2.4.2x? |
21:32.18 | ljp | damn it, a just got a sd card, I was transfering stuff to it, and the sharp 3.1 rom froze, and now fdisk wont even recogize it |
21:32.24 | kergoth | killefiz: nope |
21:33.08 | chouimat | kergoth: where is the code? |
21:33.13 | killefiz | hmm - i guess i'll transfer all my pda-stuff to the ipaq then |
21:33.33 | killefiz | i'm trying to compile an ipaq image for a couple of days now - my impression of the old buildroot is that it's not very stable ... |
21:33.48 | mickeyl | ? |
21:33.56 | mickeyl | it is pretty solid here |
21:34.26 | killefiz | mickeyl: i had to change a lot of things here and there to make it compile |
21:34.37 | mickeyl | killefiz: e.g. ? |
21:34.56 | mickeyl | killefiz: upstream fixes don't count. that's inherent to a buildsystem like that. |
21:35.10 | mickeyl | anything else left? |
21:35.37 | chouimat | kergoth: do you have the chapter in a more usable format than words? |
21:35.45 | killefiz | i had to change xine-lib makefiles because it would include stuff from /usr/include instead of from the buildroot include |
21:36.02 | killefiz | (in fact i didn't want to compile it at all but opie depends on it) |
21:36.03 | kergoth | chouimat: nope. could open it in openoffice and save it to something else |
21:36.31 | chouimat | kergoth: ok I will reinstall openoffice when II will have finished updating this box |
21:36.51 | mickeyl | andersee: ping |
21:37.04 | andersee | mickeyl: pong |
21:37.24 | mickeyl | andersee: 1st, congrats on the new uclibc release. vast improvements over .20 |
21:37.54 | chouimat | mickeyl: faster? |
21:37.56 | mickeyl | andersee: 2nd, 3.3.1-toolchain builds for me fine, but I get a strange (for me) error while configuring libxine |
21:38.06 | mickeyl | andersee: config.log says like that: |
21:38.18 | mickeyl | configure:12052: arm-linux-gcc -o conftest -I/usr/local/projects/opensimpad/output/staging/include -I/usr/local/projects/opensimpad/ |
21:38.18 | mickeyl | output/staging/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/projects/opensimpad/output/staging/target/include -fexpensive-optimizations -fomit-fra |
21:38.18 | mickeyl | me-pointer -O2 -march=armv4 -mtune=strongarm1100 -mapcs-32 -L/usr/local/projects/opensimpad/output/staging/target/lib -L/usr/local/ |
21:38.18 | mickeyl | projects/opensimpad/output/staging/usr/X11R6/lib -Wl,-rpath-link,/usr/local/projects/opensimpad/output/staging/target/lib -Wl,-rpath |
21:38.20 | mickeyl | -link,/usr/local/projects/opensimpad/output/staging/usr/X11R6/lib conftest.c -lpthread >&5 |
21:38.26 | mickeyl | cal/arm/3.3.1-uclibc/lib/gcc-lib/arm-linux/3.3.1/libgcc.a(_udivsi3.oS) is referenced by DSO |
21:38.26 | mickeyl | collect2: ld returned 1 exit status |
21:38.41 | mickeyl | mmh - missing a few chars, but you get the idea in the last line (i hope) |
21:38.54 | mickeyl | no |
21:38.58 | mickeyl | reposting the last line |
21:39.07 | mickeyl | usr/local/arm/3.3.1-uclibc/lib/gcc-lib/arm-linux/3.3.1/../../../../arm-linux/bin/ld: conftest: hidden symbol `__udivsi3' in /usr/lo |
21:39.07 | mickeyl | cal/arm/3.3.1-uclibc/lib/gcc-lib/arm-linux/3.3.1/libgcc.a(_udivsi3.oS) is referenced by DSO |
21:39.09 | mickeyl | that's it |
21:39.15 | mickeyl | minus the leading / |
21:39.34 | andersee | The _udivsi3.oS stuff is supposed to be supplied by libgcc_s.so.0.9.9 |
21:40.02 | andersee | Are you cross compiling? |
21:40.14 | mickeyl | yes. that is a arm-linux-3.3.1-uclibc toolchain |
21:40.34 | andersee | If so, things like "-L/usr/local/" are going to result in very very bad things happening. |
21:40.58 | kergoth | thats an incomplete line, the rest of the path is on th enext line |
21:41.19 | mickeyl | andersee: that's -L/usr/local/projects/opensimpad/output/staging/include - which is our staging dir |
21:41.58 | mickeyl | s/include/bin |
21:42.13 | andersee | mickeyl: ok |
21:42.17 | mickeyl | funny thing is, that worked with a previous version of the 3.3 toolchain |
21:42.30 | mickeyl | and uclibc .20 |
21:42.43 | andersee | mickeyl: you are using "arm-linux-gcc", so this was not built using my build, correct? |
21:42.55 | mickeyl | andersee: it was built, but I renamed all binaries ;) |
21:43.10 | mickeyl | i don't like arm-uclibc-gcc ;) |
21:43.23 | andersee | hmmk |
21:43.26 | kergoth | why not change the prefix in the toolchain build, strikes me as less hackish |
21:43.34 | andersee | kergoth: agreed |
21:43.58 | andersee | mickeyl: just remove the "--program-prefix=$(ARCH)-uclibc-" stuff |
21:44.15 | mule | <PROTECTED> |
21:44.17 | mickeyl | will do. |
21:44.19 | mule | werps |
21:45.12 | andersee | mickeyl: anyway, I have seen that sortof problem on and off. |
21:45.29 | mickeyl | mickeyl: hmm. recommendations about workarounds? |
21:45.32 | ljp | anyone here use a Mac? |
21:45.47 | andersee | mickeyl: When I built the uClibc buildroot for arm yesterday, everything but gcc_target worked though. |
21:46.19 | andersee | mickeyl: The curious thing is why it is linking vs libgcc.a rather than libgcc_s.so.0.9.9 |
21:48.16 | mickeyl | andersee: no idea. the directory $TOOLCHAINROOT/lib/ contains libgcc_s.so.0.9.9 |
21:48.22 | andersee | mickeyl: Is libgcc_s.so sitting in /usr/local/projects/opensimpad/output/staging/lib |
21:48.24 | andersee | ? |
21:48.31 | mickeyl | lemme check... |
21:48.36 | andersee | i.e. libgcc_s.so -> libgcc_s.so.0.9.9 |
21:48.50 | kergoth | shouldnt. staging is for interpackage dependency, not toolchain bits |
21:49.07 | mickeyl | no - not there. just in my toolchain |
21:50.40 | gb2 | kergoth: if the buildroot builds its own toolchain.. where should it go? |
21:50.48 | gb2 | staging seems logical |
21:50.54 | mickeyl | gb2: no. |
21:50.57 | mickeyl | gb2: into the toolchain path |
21:51.09 | gb2 | what's the toolchain path? |
21:51.21 | mickeyl | gb2: make menuconfig --> build configuration |
21:51.21 | kergoth | gb2: the path is hardcoded, so unless you want to always have the toolchain in your staging area |
21:51.28 | kergoth | which you shouldnt, since staging is by definition temporary |
21:51.32 | gb2 | erm.. i was meaning in general |
21:51.42 | mickeyl | ./usr/local/arm/<version> |
21:51.51 | gb2 | if i want to totally bootstrap it all. |
21:51.59 | ljp | some might say it also belongs in /opt |
21:52.05 | gb2 | the toolchain needs to be built and installed into the staging area |
21:52.07 | kergoth | some might say ljp is insane |
21:52.12 | kergoth | gb2: no |
21:52.15 | kergoth | gb2: it doesnt. |
21:52.17 | mickeyl | some might say SuSE is a good distribution |
21:52.20 | ljp | I was refering to embedix |
21:52.32 | mickeyl | hah. let us online with embedix ;) |
21:52.39 | mickeyl | s/online/alone |
21:52.42 | kergoth | hehe |
21:52.43 | mickeyl | lol |
21:52.50 | ljp | right now, I dont give a hill of beans where it goes, as long as it's in the path |
21:53.00 | ljp | and works |
21:53.36 | gb2 | kergoth: it's a toolchain which is being built purely for the purpose of building stuff in that build system. |
21:53.43 | ljp | I am testing that codewarrior thing for zaurus |
21:53.50 | kergoth | gb2: yes, and? |
21:53.59 | ljp | its really weird developing on windows |
21:53.59 | kergoth | gb2: you're not listening. a toolchain's location cannot be changed. |
21:54.13 | kergoth | gb2: now, if you plan on not keeping it around after this build, then sure, by all means use staging |
21:54.25 | kergoth | myself, i dont build a new toolchain every time i run a build |
21:54.39 | gb2 | you're adding steps then. |
21:54.45 | kergoth | huh? |
21:54.52 | kergoth | i build a toolchain once. |
21:54.52 | mickeyl | andersee: hmm... i will rebuild the toolchain once again, just to be sure. |
21:54.54 | kergoth | into /usr/local/arm |
21:54.59 | kergoth | buildroot uatomatically appends that to the path |
21:55.06 | kergoth | whether i built it in this invokation or not |
21:55.11 | kergoth | what extra steps? |
21:55.24 | gb2 | installing the toolchain |
21:55.31 | kergoth | buildroot installs th etoolchain |
21:55.35 | kergoth | dood, everything needs installing |
21:55.40 | kergoth | installing it to staging is still installing |
21:55.44 | kergoth | where's the difference? |
21:55.47 | kergoth | oh right, there isnt one. |
21:56.58 | gb2 | when i do a full bootstrap i generally want to bootstrap the entire thing, and the toolchain isn't going to be used for anything outside the buildroot. |
21:57.13 | gb2 | it's only used by the build system |
21:57.15 | kergoth | then change the path to within buildroot |
21:57.18 | kergoth | thats your perogative |
21:57.20 | gb2 | just like say.. staged libraries |
21:57.22 | kergoth | but you're the first person to request that |
21:57.35 | kergoth | you're still missing it |
21:57.38 | kergoth | staging is _TEMPORARY_ |
21:57.45 | kergoth | if you clean buildroot, do you want to lose the toolchain? |
21:57.48 | kergoth | i wouldnt want to. |
21:57.49 | gb2 | yes |
21:57.55 | kergoth | thats foolish. |
21:57.58 | kergoth | mind bogglingly so |
21:57.59 | gb2 | it's not like it takes years to build |
21:58.07 | kergoth | you're wasting time |
21:58.10 | kergoth | not years, but time |
21:58.34 | gb2 | you could say that you're wasting time re-staging dependencies too. |
21:58.56 | gb2 | the toolchain really isn't all that different |
21:59.28 | kergoth | staging is temporary because versions change |
21:59.29 | kergoth | apis change |
21:59.40 | kergoth | toolchains shouldnt change often at all |
21:59.41 | kergoth | packages do. |
21:59.46 | kergoth | therein lies the difference |
22:01.07 | kergoth | your point is valid though, you could keep staging around, or rebuild everything. we do it this way because its most efficient for the general case |
22:02.08 | gb2 | depends on your hardware |
22:02.13 | gb2 | often you endup debugging the toolchain |
22:02.22 | gb2 | so you somteimes want to totally rebuild the world |
22:02.30 | kergoth | "often" |
22:02.32 | kergoth | not for the common case |
22:02.46 | kergoth | sometimes yes. most of the time no. |
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22:03.34 | *** mode/#openembedded [+o chouimat] by ChanServ |
22:03.36 | kergoth | regardless, like i said, the system gives you the flexibility to what you want |
22:03.47 | kergoth | we just dont do it as a default, since its less efficient for the common case |
22:05.16 | gb2 | i wasn't trying to criticize the OZ buildroot |
22:05.23 | gb2 | i was trying to speak in general |
22:06.20 | mewyn | http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/09/10/HNtorvaldssco_1.html |
22:06.31 | gb2 | i've gotten attached to the uclibc buildroot |
22:07.15 | ljp | yup. buildroot's like a rubber band! |
22:07.39 | ljp | IK should start doing something worthwhile |
22:07.46 | gb2 | which builds a uclibc toolchain then everything else |
22:08.29 | kergoth | it does just what ours does when its enabled. |
22:08.39 | kergoth | it puts it in a global area for deployment too, not staging |
22:08.39 | kergoth | heh |
22:08.52 | chouimat | grrrrrr |
22:08.58 | gb2 | hrm. |
22:09.02 | ljp | whats an easy app I can compile on windows |
22:09.20 | ljp | dont forget to convert that qtopia package, too :D |
22:09.27 | kergoth | qte 2.3.7 is in |
22:09.32 | kergoth | wouldnt take much to get qtopia in |
22:09.33 | gb2 | just happens to be within the buildroot dir by default in uclibc then? |
22:09.44 | ljp | hehe. I was kidding. I can do that |
22:10.03 | ljp | does oe build images? |
22:10.33 | kergoth | i did a quick & dirty image making .ole |
22:10.34 | kergoth | .oe |
22:10.38 | kergoth | but i'd rather do a new oeimage tool |
22:10.46 | treke | kergoth: cool |
22:11.05 | ljp | I really need to get dsl at home |
22:11.22 | chouimat | i should get my static ip back |
22:11.32 | gb2 | oeimage tool that eats packages some scripted instructions and spits out an image? |
22:11.37 | kergoth | yeah |
22:11.42 | gb2 | *nod,nod* |
22:11.45 | kergoth | just hand it a configuration and a set of packages |
22:12.37 | kergoth | i'm thinking i might keep the CONFIG_ style tokens for configuration values |
22:12.44 | kergoth | but use PKG_ for package selection |
22:13.06 | ljp | makes sence |
22:13.09 | ljp | or sense |
22:13.34 | ljp | but not scents |
22:13.43 | kergoth | need to read mconf.c and do somethign similar, but with a seperate piece that links into the OE metadata for package items |
22:13.47 | kergoth | hmm |
22:15.14 | kergoth | thatll be a pain in the ass without either 1) c++ oe core lib, or 2) oeread to stuff the metadata into a local sql data cache |
22:15.25 | kergoth | or both |
22:17.55 | CIA | repository=03buildroot user=11mickey@allanon.vanille.de |
22:17.56 | CIA | 07ChangeSet@1.1315 adapt defconfig-zaurus |
22:19.15 | kergoth | mickeyl: adapt to what? :) |
22:19.51 | mickeyl | adapt packages/opie/defconfig-zaurus to quicklauncher :) |
22:20.05 | kergoth | ah |
22:20.22 | kergoth | CIA encourages good change commenting |
22:20.51 | mickeyl | indeed... might have to improve my skills ;) |
22:21.01 | kergoth | hehe. same |
22:21.11 | kergoth | i still do commit -y"blah" once in a rare while |
22:21.11 | kergoth | or "" |
22:21.14 | kergoth | "fixed" |
22:22.24 | *** join/#openembedded W8TVI|z (~zic@3639246389.mi.dial.hexcom.net) |
22:22.32 | ljp | you should learn German, and make German comments |
22:24.08 | W8TVI|z | lol |
22:24.52 | mickeyl | hah |
22:25.00 | mickeyl | hehe |
22:25.08 | mickeyl | just got a message from the SPND program commitee |
22:25.13 | mickeyl | my paper has been accepted |
22:25.17 | kergoth | SPND? |
22:25.31 | mickeyl | SNPD |
22:25.35 | mickeyl | a conference about distributed systems |
22:25.41 | kergoth | ah |
22:26.02 | ljp | dont forget to mention Trolltech |
22:26.06 | mickeyl | it's just laughable because the same paper has been clearly rejected twice for other conferences |
22:26.13 | mickeyl | and now i got a full accept |
22:26.15 | mickeyl | oh boy |
22:26.30 | mickeyl | like playing bingo |
22:26.37 | ljp | hehehe |
22:30.55 | kergoth | hmm |
22:32.21 | *** join/#openembedded bobbyd (~rob@pc2-broo3-3-cust181.renf.cable.ntl.com) |
22:32.36 | kergoth | hey bobbyd |
22:32.43 | bobbyd | kergoth: hi |
22:33.36 | bobbyd | dont know if you saw my rant apology in the logs, but I was in a foul mood yesterday. our external producer 'forgot' about 35 bugs until 2 days before we were supposed to go gold |
22:33.37 | bobbyd | :) |
22:33.43 | pb_ | hi kergoth |
22:33.46 | bobbyd | so I apologise for my ranting :) |
22:34.12 | W8TVI|z | rant on d00d |
22:34.16 | W8TVI|z | lol |
22:34.37 | W8TVI|z | I hate stupid PHBs too |
22:35.22 | bobbyd | I cant believe people can be so incompetent! |
22:36.00 | bobbyd | every time I join a new company I think it'll change, but it never does :) |
22:37.27 | kergoth | didnt see, i usually dont have _time_ to check the logs |
22:37.28 | kergoth | heh |
22:37.29 | W8TVI|z | nope, never does |
22:38.22 | W8TVI|z | or how about when the boss doesnt like you and trumps up something so they can fire you? |
22:38.25 | kergoth | bleh |
22:38.32 | kergoth | W8TVI|z: ugh, been there before |
22:38.40 | kergoth | damnit, I cant do some of these conversions complete |
22:38.42 | kergoth | completely |
22:38.50 | kergoth | until we have an if/else/else if/fi block for OE files |
22:39.19 | kergoth | oh well |
22:39.26 | W8TVI|z | kergoth, is fi the close of an if |
22:39.45 | kergoth | W8TVI|z: we can call it whatever we want. fi, endif. which sounds nicer? |
22:40.03 | W8TVI|z | ah |
22:40.06 | W8TVI|z | endif |
22:40.11 | W8TVI|z | :) |
22:40.24 | kergoth | i'd really rather this was a yacc/lex parser |
22:40.25 | W8TVI|z | I'm just use to that |
22:40.26 | kergoth | not this python crap |
22:40.35 | W8TVI|z | heh |
22:41.18 | kergoth | pick up k&r |
22:41.24 | W8TVI|z | (++,+ whaterver) |
22:41.33 | W8TVI|z | k&r? |
22:41.43 | kergoth | the authors of "The C programming language" |
22:41.49 | W8TVI|z | ah |
22:41.53 | kergoth | the definitive C book, written by the authors of hte language |
22:41.55 | kergoth | i lost mine |
22:41.56 | kergoth | grumble |
22:42.32 | mickeyl | W8TVI|z: what do you want to learn C for? |
22:42.35 | W8TVI|z | :( |
22:42.39 | pb_ | mickeyl: hah |
22:42.43 | W8TVI|z | lol |
22:42.45 | mickeyl | no really |
22:42.47 | mickeyl | honest question |
22:42.49 | mickeyl | tell me |
22:42.50 | W8TVI|z | so I can get a job |
22:43.05 | mickeyl | hah, you do everything for money, right? :D |
22:43.09 | W8TVI|z | no |
22:43.18 | cyn_ | money makes my world go round |
22:43.26 | pb_ | I doubt C is actually that much of a requirement for getting a job nowadays. It's kind of passe. |
22:43.27 | kergoth | hrmph |
22:43.29 | W8TVI|z | what is OZ writen in? |
22:43.32 | kergoth | heh |
22:43.36 | kergoth | its a distribution |
22:43.37 | mickeyl | a variety of languages |
22:43.44 | W8TVI|z | lol |
22:44.04 | W8TVI|z | (for the most part) |
22:44.12 | bobbyd | can I just check, does anyone know if anyone else is working on an alsa driver for the zaurus for open embedded? |
22:44.21 | kergoth | bobbyd: afaik no one is. |
22:44.24 | kergoth | bobbyd: and for which device? |
22:44.26 | W8TVI|z | brb |
22:44.28 | kergoth | bobbyd: zaurus isnt specific enough |
22:44.34 | bobbyd | kergoth: c700 |
22:44.38 | *** join/#openembedded mule_ (~mule@195.137.103.49) |
22:44.39 | mickeyl | W8TVI|z: the most is hard to tell. the kernel is in C and Assembler, the GUI is mostly in C++, the initscripts are bash |
22:44.57 | kergoth | mickeyl: _bash_? |
22:45.01 | kergoth | ~lart mickeyl |
22:45.05 | mickeyl | kergoth: shell-whatever |
22:45.06 | mickeyl | :) |
22:45.11 | kergoth | sh! /bin/sh! |
22:45.35 | pb_ | yay bash |
22:45.47 | kergoth | wonder how small you can make bash |
22:45.52 | kergoth | reasonably |
22:45.57 | cyn_ | that depends on how featureless you want it ohhh hehe |
22:46.03 | kergoth | hehe |
22:46.09 | kergoth | hmmm |
22:46.23 | pb_ | mm, dunno. it'd be interesting to approach it from the other side, see how small you could keep ash while having it support all the bash features. |
22:46.24 | kergoth | OE can package into any number of output forms |
22:46.33 | kergoth | wonder how to fit this into the postinst bits |
22:46.48 | kergoth | i.e. for the tarball creation, we'd want rcX.d links created now, not in a postinst, since there is no postinst |
22:47.10 | treke | one of these days I'm gonna start taking lunch breaks again |
22:47.19 | kergoth | treke: same here. |
22:47.24 | pb_ | maybe have it run the postinst automatically when generating a tarball, so the tarball becomes kind of a frozen snapshot of an installed system. |
22:47.24 | mickeyl | hehe |
22:47.38 | kergoth | my problem is i always get to work later than i'd like |
22:47.38 | pb_ | treke: good thinking, else you're gonna start getting hungry |
22:47.43 | kergoth | so i skip lunch so i can leave early |
22:47.45 | kergoth | hehe |
22:47.57 | treke | kergoth: never seems to work like that |
22:48.02 | kergoth | yeah |
22:48.14 | treke | kergoth: I always seem to skip lunch and consider leaving early. Then get stuck working two hours later |
22:48.24 | kergoth | pb_: well, problem is how to run it when we're crosscompiling |
22:48.39 | kergoth | pb_: cross our fingers and hope everything obeys the offline root path and doesnt try to execute binaries? :P |
22:49.02 | kergoth | hehe. guess its just leave it as is for now. no extra bits for some output forms |
22:50.15 | bobbyd | kergoth: someone (i think mickeyl) said that the docs for the c700 sound chip were almost nonexistant. and that the only real docs were in the origional sharp source. is that correct? |
22:50.23 | kergoth | bobbyd: correct |
22:50.28 | kergoth | bobbyd: I can get the service manual under NDA |
22:50.35 | kergoth | bobbyd: but it'll be in japanese |
22:50.39 | kergoth | bobbyd: in a scanned pdf no doubt |
22:50.42 | bobbyd | hmm |
22:50.47 | treke | kergoth: you ever seen gcc 3.3.1 bitch about undefined versioned symbol name std::time_put_w@@GLIBCPP_3.2 |
22:50.53 | treke | when building opie? |
22:51.06 | kergoth | sounds familiar |
22:51.11 | kergoth | which appp failed? |
22:51.18 | pb_ | kergoth: chroot? executing binaries is obviously a problem, but most postinsts don't do that and you could just outlaw it by fiat. |
22:51.18 | mickeyl | bipolar had that once - no idea what he did to cure it though |
22:51.19 | bobbyd | I have a japanese friend, dont know how much technical stuff she'd be willing to translate though ;) |
22:51.23 | treke | tetrix, opierec, opieplayer2, and something else |
22:51.26 | kergoth | pb_: thats true. |
22:51.28 | kergoth | hmm |
22:51.37 | kergoth | pb_: well, at a minimum it'll run ln and the like |
22:51.43 | kergoth | pb_: which would be problematic |
22:52.13 | pb_ | kergoth: oh, yeah, duh. |
22:52.26 | kergoth | treke: not a bad idea. we can make their drivers in their images Suck Less if they find us a translator for hte odcs |
22:52.29 | kergoth | heh |
22:52.40 | kergoth | although.. |
22:52.40 | kergoth | hmm |
22:53.16 | treke | Plus in Dynamisms case they already have contacts that have done some technical translation work |
22:53.31 | treke | conics may or may not do something similar |
22:53.32 | kergoth | in other words, not within ipkg's db |
22:53.43 | kergoth | then any package just dumps the files there |
22:53.44 | kergoth | hehe |
22:53.58 | kergoth | and crosses its fingers that they'll get run on first boot by our reconfiguring step |
22:54.09 | kergoth | thats actually not a bad solution, really |
22:54.10 | *** join/#openembedded heatxsink (~John@63.146.78.10) |
22:54.35 | pb_ | yep, I guess that'd work. |
22:54.48 | kergoth | not the cleanest, but ipkg would continue to work if we told it to look there.. |
22:54.51 | kergoth | hm |
22:55.10 | kergoth | wonder who'll be the first user to build a rpm based OZ for their device |
22:55.21 | kergoth | hehe |
22:55.26 | pb_ | treke: what's the actual bitching you see about std::time_put_w@@GLIBCPP_3.2? seems a bit suspicious that it has two @s in the name. |
22:55.35 | kergoth | one of the devs at ti here used OE's rpm output form along with rpm's relocation support to install the package into their NFS root |
22:55.39 | kergoth | quite spiffy :) |
22:55.50 | pb_ | heh, neat. |
22:55.56 | cyn_ | hehehe |
22:55.56 | treke | pb_: One sec |
22:55.58 | pb_ | gotta hand it to those crazy texans. |
22:56.03 | kergoth | hehe |
22:56.17 | cyn_ | no native texans know how to code, they're all imported. |
22:57.26 | treke | hes from back east, I think |
22:57.42 | pb_ | heh. well, I guess the native texans must have known how to make chips once upon a time. |
22:57.57 | bobbyd | maybe potato chips |
22:58.02 | treke | pb_: http://ent.brooks.edu/~ggilbert/err.txt |
22:58.42 | pb_ | hm, libopieplayer2. does that do anything particularly freaky? |
22:58.52 | treke | only reference I'd seen to it involved linking to -lsupc++ which op2 does |
22:59.10 | treke | pb_: tetrix and opierec have the same problems. Neither do anything particularly freaky |
22:59.19 | treke | op2 probably does though |
23:00.26 | pb_ | I'm fairly sure that std::time_put_w is a libstdc++ symbol. which is weird, because I thought opie shunned libstdc++. |
23:00.38 | kergoth | it does, but a few apps use it |
23:00.45 | pb_ | ah |
23:01.15 | kergoth | usually doesnt break much on the Z, the toolchains have always used static, not shared libstdc++ |
23:01.20 | kergoth | should think about changing that |
23:01.26 | pb_ | oh, that might be the source of the problem. |
23:01.35 | treke | hmm. I could be using a bad toolchain |
23:01.37 | kergoth | not sure about the chain he's using atm |
23:01.42 | kergoth | is that the 3.3.1? |
23:01.48 | treke | cross-3.3.1pre-oz1.tar.bz2 |
23:01.49 | pb_ | wouldn't surprise me at all if there are bad interactions between versioned symbols and static libs. |
23:01.53 | treke | from official |
23:02.01 | kergoth | treke: is libstdc++ a .so in it? |
23:02.05 | *** join/#openembedded W8TVI (~w8tvi@3639246389.mi.dial.hexcom.net) |
23:02.26 | treke | it's a .a |
23:02.59 | kergoth | ah |
23:03.32 | *** join/#openembedded heatxsink (~John@63.146.78.10) |
23:04.00 | bobbyd | ok I'm off to bed. I intend to write and alsa driver for the c700 so I can have port my sound apps. I don know how succesfull I'll be, but I'm going to give it a shot ;) |
23:04.06 | treke | fun |
23:04.13 | cyn_ | nite |
23:04.23 | cyn_ | see, he came back |
23:04.23 | kergoth | he'll be cursing at lineo before long |
23:04.28 | cyn_ | they always come back. |
23:04.30 | W8TVI | lol |
23:04.39 | heatxsink | hello all |
23:04.41 | treke | kergoth: Should I try the 3.3 toolchain instead? |
23:04.48 | kergoth | treke: *shrugs*.. worth a shot |
23:04.58 | W8TVI | kergoth: should I share the kismet log from last night? |
23:04.59 | treke | hehe. Black magic |
23:04.59 | mickeyl | it's your environment |
23:05.01 | mickeyl | it works fine here |
23:05.05 | treke | mickeyl: Oh? |
23:05.11 | kergoth | mickeyl: which chain? |
23:05.23 | kergoth | W8TVI: heheh, why not |
23:05.28 | mickeyl | cross-2.95.3 for kernel, 3.3.1pre for apps |
23:05.34 | treke | hmmm |
23:05.41 | pb_ | mickeyl: do you have shared libstdc++, or static? |
23:05.58 | mickeyl | no idea... |
23:06.21 | pb_ | kergoth: ugh |
23:06.28 | kergoth | wasnt fun :) |
23:06.45 | heatxsink | anyone know how I can get identified so I can join the #gaim channel? |
23:06.57 | mickeyl | pb: libstdc++.a |
23:07.08 | heatxsink | treke: a little bit of M$ mentality never hurt anyone eh? |
23:07.32 | treke | heatxsink: You never know. I might have installed one toolchain on top of the other |
23:07.38 | kergoth | heatxsink: /msg nickserv help |
23:07.39 | heatxsink | right |
23:07.42 | pb_ | mickeyl: oh, right. could you nm libstdc++.a | grep time_put_w? |
23:07.44 | treke | which could cause problems if something old poked through |
23:07.50 | heatxsink | kergoth: I did that |
23:08.07 | heatxsink | kergoth: and got this : The nickname [heatxsink] is not registered |
23:08.13 | kergoth | .. |
23:08.15 | kergoth | HELP |
23:08.16 | kergoth | read the help |
23:08.22 | kergoth | i didnt say identify |
23:08.23 | kergoth | i said help |
23:08.26 | kergoth | heh |
23:08.35 | treke | ah yes. oxygen also has the bug |
23:08.48 | mickeyl | pb:_ |
23:08.48 | mickeyl | usr/local/arm/3.3/arm-linux/lib$ nm libstdc++.a | grep time_put_w |
23:08.48 | mickeyl | 00000000 B _ZN9__gnu_cxx10time_put_wE |
23:08.48 | mickeyl | 00000000 B _ZSt10time_put_w@@GLIBCPP_3.2 |
23:08.48 | mickeyl | <PROTECTED> |
23:09.20 | kergoth | c++ symbols are always so unpleasant |
23:09.26 | treke | ok. Mine is the same. Wish I handt already wiped it out |
23:11.40 | W8TVI | http://knerd.com/~kb8sjt/vlog.txt |
23:11.40 | W8TVI | I think |
23:11.40 | W8TVI | hmmm. |
23:11.42 | W8TVI | cant connect |
23:14.07 | kergoth | you know, i dont like the oe naming |
23:14.14 | kergoth | ${PN}-${PV}-${PR}.oe |
23:14.19 | kergoth | i think that should be _ not - |
23:14.19 | *** join/#openembedded W8TVI|z (~zic@3639246389.mi.dial.hexcom.net) |
23:14.28 | kergoth | since - is used in the version and name |
23:14.32 | kergoth | makes it ambiguous |
23:14.39 | W8TVI | werid... stupid keyborad stoped working |
23:14.43 | mickeyl | then change it now - not if we have all 300 packages converted ;) |
23:14.46 | kergoth | hehe |
23:15.01 | W8TVI | http://knerd.com/~kb8sjt/vlog.txt |
23:15.08 | mickeyl | i remember your wild staging changes in the old buildroot.... damn... i was pissed at times ;) |
23:15.15 | kergoth | hehe |
23:15.25 | kergoth | well, buidlroot wasnt designed |
23:15.28 | kergoth | it was hacked |
23:15.32 | kergoth | so kept running into new things it couldnt handle |
23:15.47 | mickeyl | yeah |
23:15.51 | kergoth | speaking of which, we should adjust staging in oe |
23:16.02 | mickeyl | ha! |
23:16.02 | W8TVI | hey kergoth, ever have trouble with your sg20 ignoring all network trafic for about 2 o 3 mins at a time? |
23:16.03 | mickeyl | :) |
23:16.06 | kergoth | hehe |
23:16.09 | W8TVI | then all of the sudden work again? |
23:16.20 | mickeyl | bed time. |
23:16.21 | kergoth | nope, havent seen that one |
23:16.22 | mickeyl | g'night all |
23:16.26 | kergoth | night mickeyl |
23:16.37 | W8TVI | for a good laugh guys read this: http://knerd.com/~kb8sjt/vlog.txt |
23:18.04 | W8TVI | hmmm |
23:18.21 | W8TVI | maybe I'll go and put the drive in the laptop and install RH9 on it... |
23:23.19 | _munky | hey |
23:23.28 | _munky | can someone here help me running X? |
23:23.50 | treke | #openzaurus is the place for support questions |
23:24.21 | kergoth | i dont think he's using oz |
23:24.24 | kergoth | heh |
23:24.24 | _munky | does that mean proceed? |
23:24.30 | _munky | so what |
23:24.42 | kergoth | look at what channel you're in. |
23:24.44 | _munky | i installed x and icewm |
23:24.48 | kergoth | sharp/tkc questions belong in #zaurus |
23:24.52 | _munky | i know..come on man just try to give me a hand |
23:24.57 | _munky | but no one answers anything |
23:25.02 | _munky | im running thekompany btw |
23:25.14 | _munky | but honestly OZ is better then all those that i tried |
23:25.23 | _munky | so can u try to help me? |
23:25.31 | kergoth | i understand your predicament, but that doesnt make it any more on topic. |
23:25.42 | _munky | id really appreciate it |
23:25.53 | _munky | just two questions |
23:26.00 | kergoth | no. |
23:26.03 | kergoth | ask them in #zaurus |
23:26.10 | treke | most of us don't use tkc's rom |
23:26.12 | _munky | will you answer them there? |
23:26.20 | _munky | im running a tkc rom? |
23:26.26 | _munky | im running thekompany |
23:26.27 | kergoth | tkc is thekompany _munky |
23:26.32 | _munky | k |
23:26.36 | kergoth | TheKompany.Com |
23:27.57 | kergoth | ~/coding/projects/user/oe/packages$ ls -l tmp/deploy/tar/|wc -l |
23:27.58 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
23:27.59 | kergoth | getting there. |
23:29.02 | gb2 | kergoth: can a .oe emit multiple packages? |
23:29.18 | kergoth | INHERIT="package_tar package_rpm" oemake blahblah |
23:29.21 | kergoth | its space seperated |
23:29.26 | kergoth | you can specify any oeclass in that var |
23:29.28 | kergoth | to inherit |
23:29.43 | gb2 | not what i meant |
23:29.52 | kergoth | ? |
23:29.57 | kergoth | oh |
23:29.58 | kergoth | yeah |
23:29.59 | gb2 | stuff like say.. gcc emitting a libstdc++ package and a gcc package |
23:30.10 | kergoth | PACKAGES=libc6 libc-dev |
23:30.12 | kergoth | FILES= |
23:30.18 | kergoth | FILES_libc6=/lib/* |
23:30.26 | kergoth | FILES_libc-dev=blahblah |
23:30.32 | gb2 | ah, they get the -version-revision tacked on to all of them |
23:30.33 | kergoth | it'll iterate through teh packages |
23:30.40 | kergoth | yeah |
23:30.43 | kergoth | or yhou could say |
23:30.47 | kergoth | PV_libc6=blah |
23:30.47 | gb2 | is there a way to override the version? |
23:30.50 | gb2 | ok |
23:30.51 | kergoth | PV_libc-dev=heh |
23:30.51 | gb2 | heh |
23:30.57 | kergoth | theres an OVERRIDES var |
23:30.58 | kergoth | read oe.conf |
23:31.01 | treke | damn. kergoth thought of all this shit |
23:31.02 | kergoth | about OVERRIDES behavior |
23:31.04 | gb2 | ok, cool. |
23:31.08 | kergoth | nah, overrides was schurig's baby |
23:31.21 | kergoth | personally I'd rather have better conditionals |
23:31.43 | kergoth | ${ARCH} == arm: THIS=that |
23:31.45 | kergoth | or something |
23:31.52 | kergoth | to enhance flexibility |
23:31.58 | kergoth | or just if blocks |
23:32.21 | treke | if {} else if {} else {} would probably be enough |
23:32.39 | kergoth | yeah |
23:32.47 | kergoth | overrides wasnt a bad idea |
23:32.48 | kergoth | but.. |
23:32.55 | kergoth | for example, overrides gets ARCH |
23:32.58 | kergoth | it doesnt get BUILD_ARCH |
23:33.01 | gb2 | yeah, conditionals would be very useful |
23:33.05 | kergoth | so you cant make a decision based on your build machine arch |
23:33.17 | pb_ | would you want to? |
23:33.41 | gb2 | sounds like a recipie for problems |
23:33.45 | kergoth | well, we need conditionals |
23:33.48 | kergoth | here's an example |
23:33.55 | kergoth | CROSS=${ARCH}-${OS}- |
23:34.06 | kergoth | but only if ARCH != BUILD_ARCH or OS != BUILD_OS |
23:34.13 | gb2 | ah |
23:34.15 | gb2 | good idea |
23:34.26 | kergoth | so we need a way to empty CROSS given those conditions |
23:34.30 | kergoth | which we cant do right now |
23:34.34 | kergoth | so like if i want to do a native build |
23:34.40 | kergoth | i have to echo CROSS= >> conf/local.conf |
23:34.49 | kergoth | which is tedious at best |
23:35.21 | gb2 | conditionals based on the build machine can be easily misused though |
23:35.30 | kergoth | yep, they can |
23:35.32 | pb_ | fwiw, I think most modern distributions install the toolchain so that i386-linux-gcc is an alias for gcc. |
23:35.33 | kergoth | but so can lots of things |
23:35.36 | treke | we need stuff like that for opie though |
23:35.37 | pb_ | (for example) |
23:35.39 | kergoth | pb_: yeah, quite true |
23:36.01 | kergoth | we also need a way for a .oe to specify that it isnt buildable given a set of conditions |
23:36.03 | gb2 | redhat has i386-redhat-linux-gcc |
23:36.12 | gb2 | not i386-linux-gcc |
23:36.17 | kergoth | ebuilds support masking what architectures it supports |
23:36.24 | kergoth | but that seems needlessly inflexible |
23:36.28 | kergoth | so i'm thinking a new task |
23:36.36 | kergoth | that returns a value to determine if its buildable |
23:36.41 | kergoth | do_canbuild () |
23:36.42 | kergoth | or something |
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23:37.02 | *** mode/#openembedded [+o chouimat] by ChanServ |
23:37.02 | pb_ | gb2: yeah, same applies. you always need to be able to tolerate a vendor vanity string in the middle of the triplet. |
23:37.27 | pb_ | also -linux vs -linux-gnu variance, to some extent. |
23:37.42 | kergoth | thing is, we dont have tests. without tests, we rely on the user. hence the need to override CROSS in certain cases |
23:37.47 | gb2 | pb: well.. it's technically arch-vendor-os |
23:37.56 | gb2 | i386-pc-linux isn't uncommon |
23:37.59 | pb_ | indeed |
23:38.00 | gb2 | yeah |
23:38.04 | kergoth | need ot attempt to keep the complexity and intelligence down |
23:38.08 | kergoth | of the system proper |
23:38.14 | pb_ | kergoth: right |
23:38.19 | kergoth | unless we feel like attempting to replace autotools or gmake |
23:38.23 | kergoth | which is a bit beyond the scope of hte project |
23:38.26 | kergoth | hehe |
23:38.29 | pb_ | heh |
23:38.35 | pb_ | that'd be commendable though |
23:38.35 | gb2 | very little reliance on the user is a good thing |
23:38.43 | gb2 | i've been dealing with a bunch of that at work |
23:38.47 | kergoth | gb2: well, it has sane defaults in most cases |
23:38.53 | gb2 | trying to make things as idiotproof as possible |
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23:39.05 | kergoth | just a matter of forcing a user override when given a strange set of conditions |
23:39.12 | kergoth | since it lacks the intelligence to divine those conditions |
23:39.55 | *** join/#openembedded noda (~noda@modemcable013.119-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) |
23:39.58 | noda | Moo! |
23:39.59 | kergoth | hey noda |
23:40.02 | noda | kergoth: Heya :) |
23:40.43 | noda | My GOD! "Unread: 11; Total: 14" -- you can tell Sobig has expired :) |
23:40.44 | kergoth | pb_: i've considered it.. the A-A-P project is _alot_ like us with regard to capability and syntax, but acts as a gmake replacement (not autotools) |
23:40.49 | w8tvi_ | m00 |
23:41.02 | noda | kergoth: Pet peeve: s/alot/a lot/g |
23:41.10 | w8tvi_ | I never receved 1 sobig |
23:41.13 | kergoth | so we certainly _could_ do that, juust a question of whether we want to |
23:41.14 | noda | alot is a verb :) |
23:41.31 | noda | w8tvi_: On Monday I got 550 new messages. On *one* of my email accounts :) |
23:41.39 | kergoth | noda: sent out a request for assistance on our download page, fyi. got a few replies, and fdask did a preliminary version |
23:42.24 | noda | fdask, eh? That's James W? |
23:42.55 | noda | lol, I've been mailing with somebody helping out. http://ffff.ca? |
23:43.08 | noda | ibot: seen fdask |
23:43.08 | | fdask is currently on #opie #zaurus #openembedded #openzaurus. Has said a total of 337 messages. Is idling for 2h 7m 37s |
23:43.10 | chouimat | hi noodaa |
23:43.14 | noda | chouimat: Hola! |
23:43.20 | kergoth | noda: hehe, thatd be it |
23:43.26 | noda | He's nice, I like him :) |
23:43.51 | kergoth | i warned him to output valid standards compliant xhtml or he'd suffer your wrath |
23:43.55 | kergoth | :P |
23:44.04 | chouimat | http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?DiscussionOfCargoCult |
23:44.05 | noda | kergoth: lol, he's been mailing me about that ;) |
23:44.08 | kergoth | hehe |
23:44.52 | W8TVI | anyone read my log? |
23:46.05 | W8TVI | http://knerd.com/~kb8sjt/vlog.txt |
23:47.19 | W8TVI | lool |
23:47.29 | *** join/#openembedded ljp (~lpotter@ppp189.adsl238.pacific.net.au) |
23:47.49 | W8TVI | looking at the bounced messages for my one yahoo group: |
23:47.50 | W8TVI | Remote host said: 554 <probe-1074048-1079279-bg1dz=sohu.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com>: |
23:47.50 | W8TVI | Sender address rejected: Access denied |
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23:52.01 | kergoth | what package does debian store its /usr/include/{linux,asm*} in? |
23:52.26 | pb_ | libc6-dev |
23:52.36 | kergoth | k |
23:52.58 | kergoth | err, damnit. that means our libc6-dev needs files from two .oe's |
23:53.03 | kergoth | how the hell am i going to work that |
23:53.05 | kergoth | hehe |
23:53.08 | kergoth | hm |
23:53.53 | pb_ | heh. what are the two .oes in question? |
23:54.17 | kergoth | there's a seperate kernel-headers .oe |
23:54.24 | kergoth | suppose i could just let glibc pull them down itself |
23:54.27 | kergoth | be easier that way |
23:55.58 | pb_ | ah, right. the way debian works at the moment is that kernel-headers installs into /usr/src/kernel-headers-N.NN, and glibc repackages those files into libc6-dev during its own build process. |
23:56.24 | kergoth | ah. how wonderfully bound to distribution |
23:56.36 | kergoth | guess i could do something similar |
23:56.48 | pb_ | we've just been talking about abandoning the idea of using kernel-headers from the kernel altogether, and just keeping a local copy in the glibc source package. |
23:57.06 | kergoth | that strikes me as more sane |
23:57.29 | pb_ | yeah. I was dubious at first, but I think I've now been won round. |
23:57.29 | kergoth | and less painful in packaging |
23:57.40 | kergoth | s/es/s/ |
23:58.11 | gb2 | pb: redhat does that |
23:58.24 | pb_ | yeah |
23:58.57 | gb2 | pb: eliminates the #ifdef __KERNEL__ portions |
23:59.05 | gb2 | and kernel-only headers are like this: |
23:59.06 | gb2 | #error Invalid kernel header included in userspace |
23:59.20 | kergoth | yeah, i kind of like that way of doing it |
23:59.31 | kergoth | which is surprising, given how much i tend to dislike rh distributionisms |
23:59.38 | pb_ | heh |