irclog2html for #openembedded on 20030907

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01:36.02TCMANhi
01:56.54treke|homehey TCMAN
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03:02.12W8TVIhttp://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/06/0324223&mode=flat&tid=118&tid=137&tid=187
03:02.27W8TVIEveryone Needs a Personal Server
03:02.44treke|homepersonal servers can suck my balls
03:02.44W8TVIthats funny... I have one already... its called a Sharp Zaurus
03:03.19chouimattreke|home: personal servers another words for girlfriend?
03:03.44W8TVIjust get a BT or wifi card and a zaurus, and samba and there you go! "personal server"!
03:04.53treke|homechouimat: gotta get where you can
03:05.21chouimattreke|home: hehe ...  I'm going out tonight (again :)
03:07.58W8TVIat least they want to run linux on the thing
03:10.42fdaskif they could make such a device that didn't require batteries, like didn't need to be recharged constantly, it'd rule
03:11.03fdaskmaybe if it converted wireless signals into power
03:11.07treke|homethey'd also get get a nobel prize
03:11.12fdaskhehe
03:12.22treke|home<intel> Fuck we came up with perpetual motion? why the hell are we trying to sell these personal servers
03:13.08fdask<amd> screw u intel!  we have a perpetual motion superconductivity machine!
03:14.48treke|homeconveniently oggenc has gotten significantly faster since last time I had to rip
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03:34.22fishheadchouimat
03:34.37*** join/#openembedded W8TVI (~W8TVIz@3639239384.mi.dial.hexcom.net)
03:35.07W8TVIits looking more like I should use a PC/104 board for this thing....
03:38.23fishheadmmmm
03:38.23fishheadpc104
03:38.23fishheadyou seen the pc104 modules with a via c3 or eden cpu
03:39.28W8TVIno..
03:40.16W8TVII need a board that can be battery powered (by a small battery and get 3 hours out of it) and have a CF or PCMCIA slot
03:41.07fishheadthen the c3/eden might defintely be a good choice
03:41.07fishheadlow power and the slower speeds can run fanless
03:41.07fishheadthe only problems are the fpu of them before the 1 ghz version are half speed and almost 486 level
03:41.20fishheadand it's not as advanced as a p3 or athlon but for a lot of things they are fine
03:41.28fishheadbut it is very low power
03:42.46fishheadwhat task is it going to be doing
03:43.22W8TVI(portable/wearable linux box ment to run kismet
03:43.34W8TVIbe a network secruity device
03:43.41fishheadkismet
03:43.41fishheadwhat is that
03:43.43W8TVIwar walker/remote kismet server/portable AP-webserver
03:43.54W8TVIgoogle for it
03:45.09fishheadoh
03:45.09fishheadthat
03:45.09fishheadc3/eden core could do that
03:45.09fishheadit's mostly interger work
03:45.09fishheadmy connection is wacking out so be patient with me
03:45.35W8TVIk
03:47.05W8TVIhttp://www.computex.com.tw/news_archive_detail.asp?index=3889
03:47.33fishheadhttp://www.aristaipc.com/pc-104/pc-104-A2631.html
03:48.13W8TVIsmall
03:48.43fishhead5 volts @ 4 amps
03:48.43fishhead20 watts ?
03:49.04W8TVIthats alot for what I want
03:49.19fishheadtoo much ?
03:49.32W8TVIthink PDA
03:49.40fishheadah
03:49.48fishheadthen why the hell would you want a pc104
03:49.54fishheadif you want to do pda scale
03:50.07W8TVII'm looking for SUPER low power...
03:50.38W8TVIsomething that you can put in your pocket maybe....
03:50.56W8TVIbut most of all... it cant cost big $$$
03:51.29W8TVIok, this is what I need
03:52.31W8TVII cf slot for a wireless card, some way to store an OS on it, cheap, serial port,
03:52.44W8TVI2 serial ports would be nice
03:52.53fishheadlook for one of those nec mips ref boards then
03:52.53fishheadwww.earthlcd.com for screens
03:52.53fishhead240x64 $39
03:52.53fishheadyou can even run it off a parallel port even
03:53.36W8TVII Was thinking run a 2x24 of the serial port
03:53.48W8TVIbut that sounds good
03:53.56W8TVIcheap is good :)
03:54.05W8TVIand I GOT to be able to run linux on it
03:54.09fishheadoh you just need a character lcd ?
03:54.17fishheadthose are even cheaper
03:54.36W8TVII Was thinking something that you could strap to your arm
03:54.45W8TVIunder a long sleave
03:54.55fishhead240x64 $39 <-- that's a graphical
03:54.55fishheadhmm
03:54.55fishheadsmaller one or character might be better
03:55.02fishheador wait off till OLED's are in mass production
03:55.03fishheadflexable
03:55.05fishhead:)
03:55.19W8TVIlol
03:56.22W8TVI6.3"  Epson  EG9013FNZ1  640 x 480   CCFL  20,000 +  $29/ea
03:56.23W8TVIwow
03:56.54fishheadnot to mention cheaper
03:56.54fishheadsince they can be made with a inkjet printer
03:56.54fishheadand they are self lighting
03:56.54fishheadI think ones that big require a lvds interface like a laptop
03:56.54fishheadbut I could be wrong
03:57.00W8TVInot a kit... but
03:57.05fishheadyeah aren't you glad I am around :P
03:57.11W8TVIyeah
03:57.19fishheadbtw
03:57.20fishheadI don't know how good you are at this
03:57.22fishheadbut if you noticed
03:57.26fishheadand no I don't work for them
03:57.57fishheadearth lcd pays people to help them debug products they can't find the pinouts for or hack the firmware
03:57.57fishheadthey sometimes pay cash or give you like 1000 of the product
03:58.06fishheadif you need to earn some $$$ for your project :)
03:58.34W8TVIthe idea is for a sysadmin to be able to just walk around with one of these things and be able to see if there is a rouge AP near by...
03:59.03fishheadI have 30 16x1 character lcd's I got from dead printers
03:59.03fishheadalong with a 20x4
03:59.08fishheadI have to finish debuging the pinouts first ;)
03:59.17W8TVIa war walker could have it in a backpack or whatever
03:59.50W8TVIand have an lcd straped to his arm...
03:59.54W8TVIsomehting like that
03:59.54fishheadyeah
04:00.21fishheadbbl
04:00.34W8TVIand without the lcd, (if the borad has a 10baseT jack, it could be sent someplace on the network and watch for APs
04:00.50W8TVIbe a remote kismet server
04:01.07W8TVIor change some settings and be an AP
04:01.25fishheadheh I even seen some 8 bit microcontrollers now
04:01.30fishheadwith wireless capabilities
04:01.32W8TVIor be able to take it with you and have a micro server
04:01.34fishheadwe can talke again later :)
04:01.49W8TVIk
04:02.32W8TVInow it sounds like I will be able to do this thing after all
04:02.40fishheadglad I could help :)
04:03.00fishheadintel does make a embedded 386 called the 386EX
04:03.07fishheadalso amd and some others make emebdded 486's
04:03.36W8TVIk
04:03.46W8TVIthose should be low power
04:05.55fishheadif you don't need pentium class power
04:05.55fishheadmight be smaller and cheaper I dunno
04:05.57fishheadand also don't forget non-x86
04:05.59fishheadI mean I love x86 I think it's one of the best cpu designs ever
04:06.01fishheadeven if it has drawbacks
04:06.03fishheadbut sometimes it's overkill for some embedded
04:06.09fishheadhttp://www.aristaipc.com/pc104-products.html
04:06.11fishheadlook there
04:06.13fishheadthe national semi geode x86
04:06.15fishhead386ex
04:06.17fishheadetc
04:07.04fishheadyou probably don't want pc104 for non-x86
04:07.04fishheadI might be able to find you some ref designs later
04:07.10W8TVIcool
04:07.52W8TVII'd rather have a CPU that I can just drop linux on and have it work...
04:08.02fishheadthat nec mips thing
04:08.02fishheadthat was used in that linux pda that didn't work that well
04:08.02fishheadthe agenda
04:08.04W8TVInot have to mess with cross compliing
04:08.06fishheadlookup the specs for that cpu
04:08.09fishheadand read it
04:08.21fishheadwell dude if you want cheap and low power you might have to go non-x86
04:08.54W8TVII'd go with an SA cpu
04:09.12W8TVIseeing that we have OZ/EO
04:09.15W8TVIOE
04:09.49treke|homeeh? you could compile oe for x86 with an evenings work
04:10.28W8TVII dont know squat about programming
04:10.40W8TVII know I'm going to have to learn
04:10.55kergothtreke|home: most of it builds for x86 right now, i fixed the native build overall the other day. opie/qt may need slight alteration
04:10.59W8TVIbut I want to start with as few problems as possable :)
04:11.19treke|homekergoth: Yeah, I'm just factoring in the typical time for shit we dont test
04:11.35kergothyeah
04:11.36kergothbrb
04:11.51treke|homeSince it rarely gets build, no one notices when the IFDEF X86 section doesnt get maintained :p
04:12.09fishheadand it does run linux
04:12.09fishheadthis one might be cheap
04:12.09fishheadhttp://www.aristaipc.com/pc-104/pc-104-A30.html
04:12.11fishheadonly 4 meg ram but I dunno
04:12.13fishheadtreake yeah I know
04:12.18W8TVIall I really need is netoworking/wireless,  serial, and some sort of imput
04:12.19fishheadyou don't have to
04:12.21fishheadyou can go with just setting up linux
04:12.23fishheadthere is even a cross compiling howto
04:12.27fishheadlook at these
04:12.29fishheadhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=nec+mips&btnG=Google+Search
04:12.31fishheadbbl
04:12.37fishheadhttp://sources.redhat.com/ecos/tools/linux-vr4300-elf.html
04:12.52W8TVIfishhead: well go already :P
04:13.04fishheadkergoth
04:13.04fishheadmr canuck
04:13.04fishheadyou know more about this than I do
04:13.04fishheadcross compiling etc
04:13.05fishheadso can you assure w8 that it's not that painful if he goes that way
04:14.31W8TVII'm going to have enough problems getting a new UI for kismet going to talk to kismet_server and have it go to the LCD
04:15.12W8TVIif I can get a something that (mostly) just works,  it'll be much better for me
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04:15.53fishheadyou might want to talk to #picogui
04:15.53fishheadfor ideas
04:15.53fishheadthey wrote their gui to scale to lcd's if used
04:15.55fishheadwell once I am done taking care of this girl on a depression channel
04:15.59fishheadI will see if I can find any more stuff for you or tomarrow mabye
04:16.08W8TVIk
04:16.48W8TVII'b be interest to find a place that sells good 2 or 3 line LCDs for cheap
04:17.14W8TVII want to do it serial becouse its easy to echo things to it :)
04:17.21W8TVIand an LCD is small
04:18.50W8TVIcan be worn on the arm
04:20.23W8TVIneed two serial ports for users with a GPS
04:21.03fishheadyou only need 2 or 3 lines
04:21.03fishheadlook at the bottom of that earrth lcd
04:21.05fishheadthe same one with the 240x64
04:21.07fishheadlook at the next section
04:21.20fishhead2x20 $9
04:21.21fishheadand it will run nicely off the parallel port np
04:21.28W8TVIhttp://www.serialgrafix.com/index.html
04:21.30W8TVIcool
04:21.41fishheadthyose serial modules are nice too
04:21.43fishheadbut $$$$
04:21.59W8TVIhmmm
04:22.06W8TVII dont see the one your talking about
04:22.18fishheadgo to hraphical lcds's
04:22.24fishheadgraphical and chARACTER LCD'S
04:22.28fishheadscrool down
04:22.35fishheadsee how there is a 2nd section
04:22.40fishheadthis pc isa getting ready to shit agasin
04:22.41fishheaddammit
04:23.31W8TVILarge 9MM Character Serial Vacuum Fluorescent Display
04:23.38W8TVItoo bad it needs 700ma
04:24.20W8TVII did find what you were trying to show me
04:24.55W8TVISolomon LM2180SGE
04:25.00W8TVIEL backlight
04:25.05W8TVIthat'd be nice
04:25.11W8TVIlow power backlight
04:25.26fishheadyeah don't use VFD
04:25.54W8TVIwhy not? they are cool :)
04:26.01W8TVIother than power needs
04:26.35fishheaddon't use EL backlight either
04:26.36fishheadthose require a 100volt inverter
04:26.36fishheadget one with a led backlight
04:26.36fishheadyeah if you want a lot of cost and low battery life
04:27.16W8TVII though EL backlights were super low power...
04:27.19fishheaduse a lcd
04:27.19fishheadbonehead
04:27.21fishheadno
04:27.28fishheadthey need 100 volts at 400hz
04:27.39W8TVIisn't that what they use in watches?
04:28.03W8TVIwhat about that  Epson E1010
04:28.30fishheadthey might be overall
04:28.30fishheadbut you will need a inverter circuit
04:28.30fishheadel have a short life too
04:28.38fishheadyeah
04:28.47fishheadthe watches don't have the light on more than a few seconds a day
04:28.54W8TVIyeah...
04:29.05fishheadcharge pumps are pretty small
04:29.16fishheadit's a chip that uses capacitors instead of magnetic inductor coils
04:29.24fishheadto boost or buck or invert voltagews
04:29.45W8TVIah... never mind then
04:30.23fishheadyeah led is much easier to drive
04:30.58W8TVII ran a jumbo LED at 3v (on 2 AA batterys) for 2 weeks
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04:49.08fishheadstupid canucked pos
04:49.13fishheadonce my athlon is running
04:49.34fishheadI think I am going to sledgehammer this bitch
04:50.43W8TVIfishhead: http://www.pjrc.com/store/mp3_display.html
04:50.53W8TVIthats what I want to use! :)
04:50.59fishheadw8 I knew you would find those
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04:51.04fishheadI got 2 of those for free
04:51.09W8TVIfree?
04:51.12fishheadI just need to buy firmware chips for them
04:51.17W8TVIah
04:51.20fishheadyes from, 2 dead business phones
04:51.29fishheadbut the phone firmware is usless
04:51.34fishheadbtw dude
04:51.38fishheadthose have onboard ram
04:51.43fishheadand 8051 microcontrollers
04:51.45W8TVIhttp://www.pjrc.com/store/39f512_jw002_plcc.html ->  $8
04:51.51W8TVIyeah...
04:51.53fishheadyeah I know
04:51.58fishheadbut my damn ocd
04:52.03fishheadmakes even buying a $8 part hell
04:52.06fishheadfinally getting over it
04:52.07W8TVIdont know what good it'd do my project....
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04:54.06fishheadnew medication is helping
04:54.06fishheadbut those are nice displays
04:54.06fishhead24x8
04:54.06fishheadonboard 64kb of sram
04:54.08fishheadand a eprom socket
04:54.10fishheadup to 64kb
04:54.12fishhead8051 microcontrollers are hardvard archtecture
04:54.16fishhead64kb program memory 64kb data memory
04:54.18fishheadone of my favorite microcontrollers in fact
04:54.20fishheadover 20 yrs old and still one of th eindustries favorites
04:55.08fishheadmicrocontrollers kick ass
04:55.20kergothis talking to yourself entertaining?
04:55.22kergothheh
04:55.54fishheadso many jobs that you don't need more than a 4 or 8 bit cpu for
04:55.54fishheadI been talking to w8
04:55.54fishheadpoophead
04:55.54fishhead:P
04:56.01W8TVIstill need to find a good computer to hook it to
04:56.03koyote-ozah ha
04:56.11W8TVIthe zaurus is overkill
04:56.15W8TVIdont need sound...
04:56.18fishheadw8 i'll look some more for you
04:56.32fishheaddude on of those $50 pda's might even work
04:56.33koyote-ozsaturn is the best :)
04:56.42W8TVIand 16 to 32mb of ram would be good
04:56.47W8TVI$50 pda?
04:56.56fishheadw8 you know what's really nice about microcontrollers
04:56.56fishheadthey are dirt cheap
04:57.12fishheada lot of the 8 bit ones are only a few dollars or less than $1
04:57.20fishheadso you can embedded a few dozen in the field
04:57.31koyote-ozsome guy on ebay has a store with $49 visors
04:57.50fishheadtaking measurements and sending the data back to a main say linux pc to process
04:57.54fishheadand because they are so cheap if you lose a few it's not a horrible loss
04:58.02fishheadvs putting a pc in the field and having it get wasted
04:58.51W8TVII need a computer that can linux, has a CF or PCMCIA slot, and is low power
04:59.07fishheadI was talking about current $50 pda's but yeah getting discounted older palms would work
04:59.13fishheadpalms can run uclinux
04:59.34W8TVIbut I need a CF slot
04:59.37W8TVIfor wireless
04:59.42W8TVIto run kismet
05:01.37fishheadmmuless linux
05:01.37fishheadbut I don't know if your program will run on that
05:01.37fishheadm68k
05:01.37fishheadoh
05:01.39fishheadyou are a bitch to work with, you know that
05:01.41fishhead;P
05:02.02fishheadyeah
05:02.41JoelwCircuit Cellar had an article in the last two months about hooking a PCMCIA wireless card up to a microcontroller and using it to sniff things.
05:02.41W8TVIhttp://www.tiqit.com/specs.shtml
05:02.44W8TVIum... ok...
05:03.02fishheadjoel he's going to need a 16 or 32 bit one though
05:03.05fishheadelse the uc will drown
05:04.24W8TVIhmmm... if I didn't have a zaurus I'd want a tiqit
05:05.34JoelwYeah.. they used an NEC uPD78F9418 microcontroller (8-bit, 5MHz), which was good enough for just the management frames. No reason you could use something more hardcore, though!
05:05.56fishheadoh
05:05.58fishheadthat's true
05:06.05fishheadjust the frames or header info it might work
05:06.07fishheadthanks joel
05:06.27JoelwNo worries - if you're interested it was in the August 2003 issue.
05:06.54fishheadI am still new to this all
05:06.54fishheadI been a pc hardware tech for 10 yrs
05:06.56fishheadbut since about 1 yr ago I started getting insterested into electronics
05:06.58fishheadmicrocontrollers etc
05:07.17W8TVIall these stupid PC/104's have a CF for harddrive, but not for anything else
05:08.09fishheadmasn my collenction is wacked
05:08.11fishheadconnecxtion
05:11.34koyotewhere can you actually buy a tiqit?
05:12.33W8TVIno idea
05:16.39fishheadtime to get CANUCKED
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05:20.59fishheadmy 9500 pro rocks
05:20.59fishhead:)
05:22.57W8TVIlol
05:23.17fishheadthe $230 I spend on my ati radeon 9500 pro was well worth it
05:23.21fishheadati = canucks
05:29.28fishheadlkater all
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05:29.37W8TVI.
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09:06.26heatxsinkibot seen TCMAN
09:06.27tcman <~dominik@adsl-64-170-122-35.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #zaurus, 7h 1m 56s ago, saying: 'treke: they are in different office but i remember i forwarded one email from kergoth to them'.
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09:20.09pb_morning
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13:30.02mickeylmon
13:30.03mickeylmoin
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13:49.07pb_hm, my latest attempt to add gpe to buildroot seems to have ended in abject failure.
13:49.20pb_nothing unusual about that, I suppose.
13:52.28mickeylabject failure?
13:52.33pb_yeah
13:52.40mickeylwhat is abject=
13:52.42mickeyl?
13:53.21mickeylah
13:53.24pb_oh, sorry.  in this context, complete and disastrous.
13:53.29mickeylok, thanks.
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13:53.32mickeylnon-native speaker here :)
13:53.46mickeylpb_: where did it fail? GPE itself or its dependencies?
13:54.20pb_mickeyl: dependencies.  I had a variety of minor issues, but was eventually thwarted by this joke rule in packages/gtk/Makefile:
13:54.28pb_$(stamp-staginginstall): $(stamp-binary)
13:54.29pb_false
13:54.45pb_unsurprisingly, the build fails at that point.
13:56.23pb_the staginginstall rules for fontconfig and xfree86 are also a bit broken.  they just do "make DESTDIR=$(STAGINGDIR) install", which causes the files to wind up in output/staging/usr/lib rather than output/staging/target/lib.
13:57.39pb_also, gtk, pango and atk need their aclocal.m4 files patched to use the "system" libtool rather than their own internal copies, since those don't work with cross compiling.
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14:32.29mickeylhmm
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14:36.49chouimatmorning
14:37.04chouimathttp://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030907&mode=classic
14:39.16Twiunhey chouimat
14:39.23Twiunknow anything about jms?
14:39.30chouimatTwiun: nope
14:39.32Twiunmickeyl: Nice email! :)
14:39.37Twiunmickeyl: it needed to be said
14:40.02chouimat?
14:40.12mickeylTwiun: thanks. I'm usually trying to avoid stuff like that but I can't tolerate someone kicking our work like that
14:40.25Twiunchouimat: read mickeyl's last ml post
14:40.26chouimatmickeyl: ?
14:40.31chouimatTwiun: which ml
14:40.36mickeylchouimat: openzaurus-users
14:41.00chouimatokk I'm not subscribed to this one
14:41.13Twiunit's not very high traffic, but interesting at times
14:42.05chouimatTwiun: forward it to me (mchoui@e-c.qc.ca)
14:46.03Twiunchouimat: sent
14:46.13chouimathttp://befree.berlios.de/
14:46.47chouimathehe: Attachements could be out of order ;)
14:47.50Twiunchouimat: what can I say... outlook just wouldn't show the message threaded
14:49.16chouimathehe
14:50.22chouimatnice thread and mickeyl you were  too polite
14:50.51mickeylmmh really?
14:51.13chouimatmickeyl: you need to add : shaddap moron ;)
14:51.17mickeylhehe
14:51.25mickeylnext time i will ;)
14:51.36pb_hehe
14:51.38mickeylbeing curious about whether and what he will anser
14:51.41mickeylanswer even
14:52.52chouimathmmm my step mother cook well but the portion size is still too small and the hamburgers I go at 3h00am are deffinitly gone ... and now I'm starving
14:53.36mickeylWord sucks
14:53.40mickeylit sucks big time
14:53.58pb_mickeyl: first with the news :-)
14:54.04mickeylhehe - my wife just wanted to do some slides containing a few math symbols
14:54.08mickeylshe got nearly crazy
14:54.18mickeyluntil i forced here to remember her TeX skills
14:54.22mickeyland use the Linux PC
14:54.27pb_hehe
14:55.09mickeylthe one who invented the so called "math editor" should be shooted at immediately
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14:56.19chouimatmickeyl: people use windows and after that they are scared of computers ... they think a computer is as easy to use as a car or an appliance ...
14:57.33liyang|home(but driving a car is _not_ easy. Think how long it took you to learn to drive. But oooh, no. People just want to be able to sit down in front of a computer and have it do their bidding.)
14:57.40mickeylright.
14:58.44liyang|homeWe ought to require licenses to use computers. ;)
14:58.51mickeylno joking
14:58.54mickeyli'd be all for it
14:59.02chouimatliyang|home: no a brain
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14:59.40liyang|hometesting for that is somewhat harder, though yes, I `agree' in principle. :)
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16:19.27treke|homemickeyl: Nice reply
16:19.45chouimathttp://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/gma/US/GMA030905Grand_theft_murders.html <--- MORONS
16:20.15mickeyltreke: ;)
16:21.15chouimattreke|home: hehe
16:21.25mickeylright
16:21.40mickeyltreke: did you read my botmail? sysrq is working nice - it is really a relief
16:21.45treke|homeIt takes time to figure out how it works, but once you do builds are feirly straight forward
16:21.53treke|homemickeyl: Yeah. Gonna do a new build today with it
16:22.09mickeyltreke: good luck. opie still doesn't work for me
16:22.27treke|homemickeyl: Two more days till harlekin gets back and we can gang up on him :)
16:22.36mickeylrigh :D
16:22.52treke|homebreaking cvs and going on vacation == bad thing :p
16:23.14chouimattreke|home: hehe
16:24.59mickeylthing is... it works on x86
16:25.05mickeylbut doesn't on arm
16:25.08mickeyl(at least not here)
16:25.09treke|homeodd
16:25.12treke|homeendianness problem?
16:26.07mickeylno idea, iirc it wasn't a segfault - will strace late this evening
16:26.15mickeyllater eve
16:26.16mickeyleven
16:27.02mickeyli fixed the calibration not appearing problem
16:27.45mickeylso first time wizard starts, then calibration appears and then nothing more because of app launching
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16:27.51treke|homemickeyl: Started using pyqt yesterday. Rather nice so far, but some things kept me scratch my head for a long time :)
16:28.02mickeyltreke|home: hehe, e.g. ?
16:28.19mickeylhehe
16:28.23mickeylreserved word, yeah ;)
16:28.27treke|homethen I noticed QPEApplication used exec_loop()
16:28.44treke|homeand made a guess that all of the exec calls were changed to exec_loop :p
16:28.55mickeyleducated guess :D
16:29.25mickeylonly rare occasions
16:29.34treke|homeyeah. It was a good way to waste an hour and a half at the car wash :p
16:29.36mickeylbasically the mapping is really natural.
16:29.52mickeylhehe, nice. and it's reasonably fast on the c7x0
16:29.59mickeylx>= 5, that is ;)
16:30.11treke|homethe api seems to be more or less identical to the c++ api
16:30.22pb_hi treke|home
16:30.24treke|homewith a couple minor changes
16:30.25treke|homeyou pb_
16:30.29pb_indeed
16:30.56mickeyltreke: know what stopped kergoth doing all new experimental builds like promised on friday?
16:31.25treke|homemickeyl: As much as I hate the use of white space for blocks, it makes it much more convenient for the c7x0 keyboard
16:31.35treke|homemickeyl: Not sure. I think he was doing oe stuff
16:31.43mickeyltreke: strange. he didn't complete more than a poodle zimage. not even an initrd for poodle
16:32.04pb_treke|home: I tried compiling gtk and friends in buildroot this morning, but failed.  The makefiles for those packages seem to be in a bad state.
16:32.18treke|homepb_: You have the -devel stuff for you desktop installed?
16:32.24treke|homemickeyl: I want to talk to him about rootfs's
16:32.27pb_treke|home: yes
16:32.48treke|homemickeyl|bbl: I think we can actually get away with one rootfs for poodle/corgi/shepherd/husky
16:32.56pb_treke|home: the staginginstall rule for packages/gtk2 just contains "false", which seems unlikely to ever yield useful results.
16:33.03treke|homehahaha
16:33.22treke|homepb_: I think that means we never got around to doing the install into stagin
16:33.30pb_heh, figured
16:33.45treke|homepb_: It's just a matter of installing the files into STAGING_INCDIR, STAGING_LIBDIR, and STAGING_BINDIR
16:34.46pb_ok.  I guess that might be within my capabilities.
17:02.59Twiunmickeyl|bbl: that generated quite a heated response from redtoad - although I agree that a user support buffer would be nice... think he'd volunteer?
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17:19.57mickeyltreke: yep, i agree. A consolidation of images would be pretty much needed.
17:21.52mickeylTwiun: I should ask him... with openzaurus-users vs. openzaurus-devel he may be right, but in the end if the devels keep out of the users list there will be probably much less answers floating around. don't know if that's what he want
17:26.51Twiunmickeyl: maybe if he acts as moderator between lists?
17:26.56Twiunmickeyl: (or obviously someone else)
17:27.34Twiunmickeyl: so worthy questions from -users get forwarded to -devel and answers back through the intermediary
17:29.13mickeyli like that human gateway idea
17:33.46Twiunit turns the interface into a moderation - so the moderator could perhaps comment dev replies with non-technical comments
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18:22.16zar_-hy all
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18:28.33Twiunhi zar_-
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18:50.25pb_treke|ho1e: when installing into staging, do I need to copy all the runtime bits, or just the files required for building other packages?
18:51.06kergothpb_: just whats needed to build other packages that depend on it.
18:51.23pb_okay, cool
18:54.18pb_how about .pc files, do I just use this magic $(call installpc) thing?
18:55.11kergothiirc yes, it just sed's some paths.
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18:55.18pb_kergoth: righto, thanks
18:55.24Bernardohi
18:56.10treke|ho1ewheee. flameware on oz-users
18:56.19kergothhehe.
18:57.07kergothheheh, I had to "adjust" the tone of my emails before i sent em
18:58.00TwiunI was about to say, that was surprisingly tame
18:59.25treke|ho1eif people think getting the existing buildroot to work is hard, wait till the start trying to add new stuff to it :p
18:59.40pb_fear
19:00.09mickeylgrrr
19:00.32kergothhehe. people like to comment on its problems, but obviously have no idea what the alternative would have been
19:00.40treke|ho1ehehe
19:00.41pb_heh
19:01.04treke|ho1e200 pages of instructions on how to cross compile everything by hand :p
19:01.10fdaskhaha
19:01.10kergothhehe
19:01.30fdaskwho would've actually taken the time to write those?
19:01.38kergothgood point
19:02.30kergothoffice space on comedy central. good stuff.
19:02.56treke|ho1eoffice space is always on comedy central. Some times I think it's the only movie they have a license for
19:03.17kergothheheh
19:08.00treke|ho1ethe biggest difference between us and tkc is that we dont make money, so we can't pay someone to do all this support crap for us :p
19:10.08Twiunthat and there are very few people who actually like doing support...
19:10.20Twiunthe ones that do it for a living definately don't want to bring it home
19:10.37treke|ho1ehehe
19:10.57treke|ho1eah but kergoth doesnt do it for a living
19:11.34Twiun...anymore ;)
19:11.55Twiunproves my point really, the ones that do support bail out asap
19:12.16treke|ho1eapt-get remove module-init-tools
19:12.43treke|ho1eoops.
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19:32.07treke|ho1ethis having to rerip cds is absolutly no fun
19:34.06pb_phew, gtk staginginstall completed.
19:34.07Twiunfor ogg?
19:34.12pb_now the build fails in... matchbox!
19:34.25pb_this is no fun either.
19:34.40treke|ho1eTwiun: Yeah doing them in ogg. 2.6.0-test4 wiped out my hard drives last week, so I need to start over
19:35.23treke|ho1eTwiun: oggenc is a whole lot faster than it used to be, it now encodes the stuff almost instantaneosly :p
19:35.30pb_oh, now it's forgotten my gcc configuration again.  anybody know why that happens?
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19:35.44treke|ho1eTwiun: my last attempt at oggencoding took about an hour per cd ( not including rip time)
19:36.18W8TVI-zyou must have a slow computer
19:36.26treke|ho1enope. Same machine
19:36.28treke|ho1eoddly enough
19:37.11treke|ho1esomething in oggenc has definitly changed
19:37.24W8TVI-zmine can do a whole cd (ogg or mp3) in about 15mins
19:37.38W8TVI-zits only a 1ghz
19:37.55treke|ho1emp3s took about a minute each. the oggs took about 10
19:38.03W8TVI-zand I do it on winXP
19:38.04treke|ho1eNow for some reason oggs take about 45 seconds
19:38.12treke|ho1eSo something has changed.
19:38.38Twiunsure the files aren't full of 0x0?
19:38.43treke|ho1ehyehe
19:39.24treke|ho1emaybe oggenc is just really slow with low bitrate encoding
19:43.42W8TVI-zmy new cd player uses atrac3 compresion
19:44.39W8TVI-ztook about 30mins to transcode and burn 550mb of music
19:45.04W8TVI-zI can also just use mp3 cds
19:57.15Twiunall we need now is that functionality but for ogg
19:57.22Twiuncram even more music into a cd
19:57.40Twiunportable dvd player... yum
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21:31.45treke|ho1egod damn. plucker is *still* running
21:48.27ljphmm
21:48.47treke|ho1eit's been running since wednesday :)
21:49.05ljphmm, is that odd?
21:53.24chouimathi ljp
21:55.25chouimattreke|ho1e: huge document to convert I see :)
21:55.34treke|ho1echouimat: python manual
21:55.47chouimattreke|ho1e: huge manual
21:55.56treke|ho1echouimat: yeah, but plucker is going horribly slow
21:56.11treke|ho1ethe files are all local, and it's parsed most of them
21:56.33chouimattreke|ho1e: did you try jpluck?
21:56.56treke|ho1enope, using plucker-desktop atm
21:59.12treke|ho1ehmmm. trolltech reogranized their site
22:02.50treke|ho1ewhere did tmake get moved to :p
22:07.55ljpthere was am email about that hmm. I wonder if I can find it
22:09.37ljpof tmake? or the internal email I am looking for? ;)
22:09.44treke|ho1eboth
22:09.56treke|ho1eI hacked trolltech
22:17.30treke|ho1ehmmm there is a free qsa?
22:18.00tronicaltreke|ho1e: qsa is available under the terms of the GPL
22:18.30treke|ho1enifty. I thought it was proprietary. just saw the qsa-x11-free packages while hunting for tmake source
22:18.48ljpit is also gpl
22:20.22pb_what's qsa?
22:21.20tronicalpb_: qt script for applications. a scripting engine (based on javascript (as language)) that makes it trivial to script qt c++ applications (or even write applications in it)
22:21.40pb_aha
22:21.44tronicalit's quite nifty in the way it allows exporting your own C++ objects to scripts
22:21.52treke|ho1eshit, trolltech has got to be racking in the dough
22:24.30pb_how else would they afford to hire ljp?
22:24.38tronicalhehe
22:24.40pb_or, more to the point, to bribe immigration to let him in.
22:26.43ljpgetting in was easy. it's staying thats difficult
22:27.22pb_ah
22:31.55chouimatljp?
22:32.11ljpya]
22:32.29chouimatljp: want to go back in us?
22:32.54ljpno. staying, as in getting imm to get my work visa
22:33.22chouimatljp: what? still waiting
22:33.27treke|ho1ethere is about 2 million people in california who would say otherwise
22:33.27ljpyes
22:33.28pb_I thought TT sorted out all that paperwork before you left.  Wasn't that the reason for that huge delay?
22:33.44ljpthe delay is with .au immigration
22:33.53ljpI am only on a short stay business visa
22:33.58pb_oh, I see.
22:34.06chouimatljp: 3 months ?
22:34.23ljpya
22:34.39ljpmight have to fly to hawaii for a day or two and come back
22:34.39treke|ho1eso you're kinda in trouble in one month :p
22:34.55treke|ho1ehopefully trolltech will foot the bill
22:35.00pb_ljp: heh, life is hard.
22:35.05ljpyup
22:35.58treke|ho1e<warwick> well he cant afford hawaii, how about this cannibal island just off the coast?
22:36.17ljpit might have to be to the US
22:36.23treke|ho1e<warwick> The seven americas who stayed their last had a pleasant time
22:37.24treke|ho1ehow soon you forget. the whole world is america
22:37.40ljpahhhh
22:37.40treke|ho1epb_: how comes gtk?
22:38.04pb_treke|ho1e: well, I fixed the staginginstall thing and then ran into a problem with matchbox.
22:38.15treke|ho1eah
22:38.17treke|ho1ewhat was the problem?
22:38.37pb_I tried to turn matchbox off, but forgot that every time I run make menuconfig, it destroys all my configuration.  I didn't have the heart to go through and select everything again so I gave up at that point.
22:38.48pb_treke|ho1e: patch doesn't apply
22:38.57treke|ho1eah
22:40.34chouimatljp: I envy you ... using teambuilder everyday at work :)
22:41.20pb_treke|ho1e: is there an alternative configuration utility I can use that will retain my settings from one run to the next?
22:41.54treke|ho1emake menuconfig should
22:42.08pb_ah, hm
22:42.14treke|ho1eunless you had something setup inconsistantly pretty high up in the dependency chain
22:42.22treke|ho1elike a nonmatching glibc/gcc
22:42.50pb_every time I run it, it seems to turn off gcc and glibc, which then causes everything else to get switched off too.
22:43.18pb_I can enable everything again, save the .config and build, but if I run menuconfig again the same thing happens.
22:44.00treke|ho1ehmmm
22:47.32kergothi think i remember fixing that bug
22:47.38kergothare you using a snapshot? could be old
22:47.41pb_yeah
22:47.44treke|ho1eah
22:47.49treke|ho1ethe snapshot is a couple months old
22:47.52pb_ah, is the bit about the snapshots being updated every four hours a lie?
22:47.53kergothnah
22:47.56kergothi updated it a couple weeks ago
22:48.00kergothpb_: the tarball is updated..
22:48.06kergothpb_: but the tree that it comes from isnt
22:48.09kergothheh
22:48.10treke|ho1ejust not the contents :p
22:48.15pb_kergoth: heh
22:48.24kergothneed to start a new snapshot job and tell scanline to kill that one
22:48.28ljpchouimat: make -j26 works wonders, although opie and buildroot dont like it
22:48.40kergothtreke|ho1e: use bk export
22:48.48kergothbk export buildroot buildroot-exported
22:48.54kergothkills all the unnecessary metadata for the repos
22:48.56treke|ho1eok
22:49.21pb_cool
22:49.30treke|ho1ehmmm. smells like my lunch is done. brb then I'll export
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22:50.09pb_I'll look at it tomorrow though.
22:50.35kergothtreke|ho1e: you eat lunch in the evening? :)
22:50.58treke|ho1ewell it's 4pm.
22:51.15treke|ho1eabout an hour later than my usual lunch, but close
22:52.11chouimatljp: we  used it in n7y and make -j at 4h00am was fun :)
22:53.10chouimatljp: so fix opie :)
22:53.47kergothtreke|ho1e: we dont use it anyway
22:53.58treke|ho1ekergoth: something depends on it  :p
22:54.06kergoththen fix that something
22:54.08kergoth's config.in
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23:56.01BBBMatthewhopefully spannered the xine lib problem

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