| 00:23.37 | *** join/#openembedded stigger (stigger@p051-n1-gos.nlc.net.au) |
| 00:41.09 | *** join/#openembedded janoc (~janoc@ligpc47.epfl.ch) |
| 00:41.51 | janoc | hello |
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| 01:36.02 | TCMAN | hi |
| 01:56.54 | treke|home | hey TCMAN |
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| 02:35.40 | *** part/#openembedded hb (~Harri@pD955F408.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 03:02.12 | W8TVI | http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/06/0324223&mode=flat&tid=118&tid=137&tid=187 |
| 03:02.27 | W8TVI | Everyone Needs a Personal Server |
| 03:02.44 | treke|home | personal servers can suck my balls |
| 03:02.44 | W8TVI | thats funny... I have one already... its called a Sharp Zaurus |
| 03:03.19 | chouimat | treke|home: personal servers another words for girlfriend? |
| 03:03.44 | W8TVI | just get a BT or wifi card and a zaurus, and samba and there you go! "personal server"! |
| 03:04.53 | treke|home | chouimat: gotta get where you can |
| 03:05.21 | chouimat | treke|home: hehe ... I'm going out tonight (again :) |
| 03:07.58 | W8TVI | at least they want to run linux on the thing |
| 03:10.42 | fdask | if they could make such a device that didn't require batteries, like didn't need to be recharged constantly, it'd rule |
| 03:11.03 | fdask | maybe if it converted wireless signals into power |
| 03:11.07 | treke|home | they'd also get get a nobel prize |
| 03:11.12 | fdask | hehe |
| 03:12.22 | treke|home | <intel> Fuck we came up with perpetual motion? why the hell are we trying to sell these personal servers |
| 03:13.08 | fdask | <amd> screw u intel! we have a perpetual motion superconductivity machine! |
| 03:14.48 | treke|home | conveniently oggenc has gotten significantly faster since last time I had to rip |
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| 03:34.05 | *** join/#openembedded fishhead (~washme@12-226-219-161.client.attbi.com) |
| 03:34.22 | fishhead | chouimat |
| 03:34.37 | *** join/#openembedded W8TVI (~W8TVIz@3639239384.mi.dial.hexcom.net) |
| 03:35.07 | W8TVI | its looking more like I should use a PC/104 board for this thing.... |
| 03:38.23 | fishhead | mmmm |
| 03:38.23 | fishhead | pc104 |
| 03:38.23 | fishhead | you seen the pc104 modules with a via c3 or eden cpu |
| 03:39.28 | W8TVI | no.. |
| 03:40.16 | W8TVI | I need a board that can be battery powered (by a small battery and get 3 hours out of it) and have a CF or PCMCIA slot |
| 03:41.07 | fishhead | then the c3/eden might defintely be a good choice |
| 03:41.07 | fishhead | low power and the slower speeds can run fanless |
| 03:41.07 | fishhead | the only problems are the fpu of them before the 1 ghz version are half speed and almost 486 level |
| 03:41.20 | fishhead | and it's not as advanced as a p3 or athlon but for a lot of things they are fine |
| 03:41.28 | fishhead | but it is very low power |
| 03:42.46 | fishhead | what task is it going to be doing |
| 03:43.22 | W8TVI | (portable/wearable linux box ment to run kismet |
| 03:43.34 | W8TVI | be a network secruity device |
| 03:43.41 | fishhead | kismet |
| 03:43.41 | fishhead | what is that |
| 03:43.43 | W8TVI | war walker/remote kismet server/portable AP-webserver |
| 03:43.54 | W8TVI | google for it |
| 03:45.09 | fishhead | oh |
| 03:45.09 | fishhead | that |
| 03:45.09 | fishhead | c3/eden core could do that |
| 03:45.09 | fishhead | it's mostly interger work |
| 03:45.09 | fishhead | my connection is wacking out so be patient with me |
| 03:45.35 | W8TVI | k |
| 03:47.05 | W8TVI | http://www.computex.com.tw/news_archive_detail.asp?index=3889 |
| 03:47.33 | fishhead | http://www.aristaipc.com/pc-104/pc-104-A2631.html |
| 03:48.13 | W8TVI | small |
| 03:48.43 | fishhead | 5 volts @ 4 amps |
| 03:48.43 | fishhead | 20 watts ? |
| 03:49.04 | W8TVI | thats alot for what I want |
| 03:49.19 | fishhead | too much ? |
| 03:49.32 | W8TVI | think PDA |
| 03:49.40 | fishhead | ah |
| 03:49.48 | fishhead | then why the hell would you want a pc104 |
| 03:49.54 | fishhead | if you want to do pda scale |
| 03:50.07 | W8TVI | I'm looking for SUPER low power... |
| 03:50.38 | W8TVI | something that you can put in your pocket maybe.... |
| 03:50.56 | W8TVI | but most of all... it cant cost big $$$ |
| 03:51.29 | W8TVI | ok, this is what I need |
| 03:52.31 | W8TVI | I cf slot for a wireless card, some way to store an OS on it, cheap, serial port, |
| 03:52.44 | W8TVI | 2 serial ports would be nice |
| 03:52.53 | fishhead | look for one of those nec mips ref boards then |
| 03:52.53 | fishhead | www.earthlcd.com for screens |
| 03:52.53 | fishhead | 240x64 $39 |
| 03:52.53 | fishhead | you can even run it off a parallel port even |
| 03:53.36 | W8TVI | I Was thinking run a 2x24 of the serial port |
| 03:53.48 | W8TVI | but that sounds good |
| 03:53.56 | W8TVI | cheap is good :) |
| 03:54.05 | W8TVI | and I GOT to be able to run linux on it |
| 03:54.09 | fishhead | oh you just need a character lcd ? |
| 03:54.17 | fishhead | those are even cheaper |
| 03:54.36 | W8TVI | I Was thinking something that you could strap to your arm |
| 03:54.45 | W8TVI | under a long sleave |
| 03:54.55 | fishhead | 240x64 $39 <-- that's a graphical |
| 03:54.55 | fishhead | hmm |
| 03:54.55 | fishhead | smaller one or character might be better |
| 03:55.02 | fishhead | or wait off till OLED's are in mass production |
| 03:55.03 | fishhead | flexable |
| 03:55.05 | fishhead | :) |
| 03:55.19 | W8TVI | lol |
| 03:56.22 | W8TVI | 6.3" Epson EG9013FNZ1 640 x 480 CCFL 20,000 + $29/ea |
| 03:56.23 | W8TVI | wow |
| 03:56.54 | fishhead | not to mention cheaper |
| 03:56.54 | fishhead | since they can be made with a inkjet printer |
| 03:56.54 | fishhead | and they are self lighting |
| 03:56.54 | fishhead | I think ones that big require a lvds interface like a laptop |
| 03:56.54 | fishhead | but I could be wrong |
| 03:57.00 | W8TVI | not a kit... but |
| 03:57.05 | fishhead | yeah aren't you glad I am around :P |
| 03:57.11 | W8TVI | yeah |
| 03:57.19 | fishhead | btw |
| 03:57.20 | fishhead | I don't know how good you are at this |
| 03:57.22 | fishhead | but if you noticed |
| 03:57.26 | fishhead | and no I don't work for them |
| 03:57.57 | fishhead | earth lcd pays people to help them debug products they can't find the pinouts for or hack the firmware |
| 03:57.57 | fishhead | they sometimes pay cash or give you like 1000 of the product |
| 03:58.06 | fishhead | if you need to earn some $$$ for your project :) |
| 03:58.34 | W8TVI | the idea is for a sysadmin to be able to just walk around with one of these things and be able to see if there is a rouge AP near by... |
| 03:59.03 | fishhead | I have 30 16x1 character lcd's I got from dead printers |
| 03:59.03 | fishhead | along with a 20x4 |
| 03:59.08 | fishhead | I have to finish debuging the pinouts first ;) |
| 03:59.17 | W8TVI | a war walker could have it in a backpack or whatever |
| 03:59.50 | W8TVI | and have an lcd straped to his arm... |
| 03:59.54 | W8TVI | somehting like that |
| 03:59.54 | fishhead | yeah |
| 04:00.21 | fishhead | bbl |
| 04:00.34 | W8TVI | and without the lcd, (if the borad has a 10baseT jack, it could be sent someplace on the network and watch for APs |
| 04:00.50 | W8TVI | be a remote kismet server |
| 04:01.07 | W8TVI | or change some settings and be an AP |
| 04:01.25 | fishhead | heh I even seen some 8 bit microcontrollers now |
| 04:01.30 | fishhead | with wireless capabilities |
| 04:01.32 | W8TVI | or be able to take it with you and have a micro server |
| 04:01.34 | fishhead | we can talke again later :) |
| 04:01.49 | W8TVI | k |
| 04:02.32 | W8TVI | now it sounds like I will be able to do this thing after all |
| 04:02.40 | fishhead | glad I could help :) |
| 04:03.00 | fishhead | intel does make a embedded 386 called the 386EX |
| 04:03.07 | fishhead | also amd and some others make emebdded 486's |
| 04:03.36 | W8TVI | k |
| 04:03.46 | W8TVI | those should be low power |
| 04:05.55 | fishhead | if you don't need pentium class power |
| 04:05.55 | fishhead | might be smaller and cheaper I dunno |
| 04:05.57 | fishhead | and also don't forget non-x86 |
| 04:05.59 | fishhead | I mean I love x86 I think it's one of the best cpu designs ever |
| 04:06.01 | fishhead | even if it has drawbacks |
| 04:06.03 | fishhead | but sometimes it's overkill for some embedded |
| 04:06.09 | fishhead | http://www.aristaipc.com/pc104-products.html |
| 04:06.11 | fishhead | look there |
| 04:06.13 | fishhead | the national semi geode x86 |
| 04:06.15 | fishhead | 386ex |
| 04:06.17 | fishhead | etc |
| 04:07.04 | fishhead | you probably don't want pc104 for non-x86 |
| 04:07.04 | fishhead | I might be able to find you some ref designs later |
| 04:07.10 | W8TVI | cool |
| 04:07.52 | W8TVI | I'd rather have a CPU that I can just drop linux on and have it work... |
| 04:08.02 | fishhead | that nec mips thing |
| 04:08.02 | fishhead | that was used in that linux pda that didn't work that well |
| 04:08.02 | fishhead | the agenda |
| 04:08.04 | W8TVI | not have to mess with cross compliing |
| 04:08.06 | fishhead | lookup the specs for that cpu |
| 04:08.09 | fishhead | and read it |
| 04:08.21 | fishhead | well dude if you want cheap and low power you might have to go non-x86 |
| 04:08.54 | W8TVI | I'd go with an SA cpu |
| 04:09.12 | W8TVI | seeing that we have OZ/EO |
| 04:09.15 | W8TVI | OE |
| 04:09.49 | treke|home | eh? you could compile oe for x86 with an evenings work |
| 04:10.28 | W8TVI | I dont know squat about programming |
| 04:10.40 | W8TVI | I know I'm going to have to learn |
| 04:10.55 | kergoth | treke|home: most of it builds for x86 right now, i fixed the native build overall the other day. opie/qt may need slight alteration |
| 04:10.59 | W8TVI | but I want to start with as few problems as possable :) |
| 04:11.19 | treke|home | kergoth: Yeah, I'm just factoring in the typical time for shit we dont test |
| 04:11.35 | kergoth | yeah |
| 04:11.36 | kergoth | brb |
| 04:11.51 | treke|home | Since it rarely gets build, no one notices when the IFDEF X86 section doesnt get maintained :p |
| 04:12.09 | fishhead | and it does run linux |
| 04:12.09 | fishhead | this one might be cheap |
| 04:12.09 | fishhead | http://www.aristaipc.com/pc-104/pc-104-A30.html |
| 04:12.11 | fishhead | only 4 meg ram but I dunno |
| 04:12.13 | fishhead | treake yeah I know |
| 04:12.18 | W8TVI | all I really need is netoworking/wireless, serial, and some sort of imput |
| 04:12.19 | fishhead | you don't have to |
| 04:12.21 | fishhead | you can go with just setting up linux |
| 04:12.23 | fishhead | there is even a cross compiling howto |
| 04:12.27 | fishhead | look at these |
| 04:12.29 | fishhead | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=nec+mips&btnG=Google+Search |
| 04:12.31 | fishhead | bbl |
| 04:12.37 | fishhead | http://sources.redhat.com/ecos/tools/linux-vr4300-elf.html |
| 04:12.52 | W8TVI | fishhead: well go already :P |
| 04:13.04 | fishhead | kergoth |
| 04:13.04 | fishhead | mr canuck |
| 04:13.04 | fishhead | you know more about this than I do |
| 04:13.04 | fishhead | cross compiling etc |
| 04:13.05 | fishhead | so can you assure w8 that it's not that painful if he goes that way |
| 04:14.31 | W8TVI | I'm going to have enough problems getting a new UI for kismet going to talk to kismet_server and have it go to the LCD |
| 04:15.12 | W8TVI | if I can get a something that (mostly) just works, it'll be much better for me |
| 04:15.43 | *** join/#openembedded Bala (~Bala@hsdbsk142-165-143-153.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 04:15.53 | fishhead | you might want to talk to #picogui |
| 04:15.53 | fishhead | for ideas |
| 04:15.53 | fishhead | they wrote their gui to scale to lcd's if used |
| 04:15.55 | fishhead | well once I am done taking care of this girl on a depression channel |
| 04:15.59 | fishhead | I will see if I can find any more stuff for you or tomarrow mabye |
| 04:16.08 | W8TVI | k |
| 04:16.48 | W8TVI | I'b be interest to find a place that sells good 2 or 3 line LCDs for cheap |
| 04:17.14 | W8TVI | I want to do it serial becouse its easy to echo things to it :) |
| 04:17.21 | W8TVI | and an LCD is small |
| 04:18.50 | W8TVI | can be worn on the arm |
| 04:20.23 | W8TVI | need two serial ports for users with a GPS |
| 04:21.03 | fishhead | you only need 2 or 3 lines |
| 04:21.03 | fishhead | look at the bottom of that earrth lcd |
| 04:21.05 | fishhead | the same one with the 240x64 |
| 04:21.07 | fishhead | look at the next section |
| 04:21.20 | fishhead | 2x20 $9 |
| 04:21.21 | fishhead | and it will run nicely off the parallel port np |
| 04:21.28 | W8TVI | http://www.serialgrafix.com/index.html |
| 04:21.30 | W8TVI | cool |
| 04:21.41 | fishhead | thyose serial modules are nice too |
| 04:21.43 | fishhead | but $$$$ |
| 04:21.59 | W8TVI | hmmm |
| 04:22.06 | W8TVI | I dont see the one your talking about |
| 04:22.18 | fishhead | go to hraphical lcds's |
| 04:22.24 | fishhead | graphical and chARACTER LCD'S |
| 04:22.28 | fishhead | scrool down |
| 04:22.35 | fishhead | see how there is a 2nd section |
| 04:22.40 | fishhead | this pc isa getting ready to shit agasin |
| 04:22.41 | fishhead | dammit |
| 04:23.31 | W8TVI | Large 9MM Character Serial Vacuum Fluorescent Display |
| 04:23.38 | W8TVI | too bad it needs 700ma |
| 04:24.20 | W8TVI | I did find what you were trying to show me |
| 04:24.55 | W8TVI | Solomon LM2180SGE |
| 04:25.00 | W8TVI | EL backlight |
| 04:25.05 | W8TVI | that'd be nice |
| 04:25.11 | W8TVI | low power backlight |
| 04:25.26 | fishhead | yeah don't use VFD |
| 04:25.54 | W8TVI | why not? they are cool :) |
| 04:26.01 | W8TVI | other than power needs |
| 04:26.35 | fishhead | don't use EL backlight either |
| 04:26.36 | fishhead | those require a 100volt inverter |
| 04:26.36 | fishhead | get one with a led backlight |
| 04:26.36 | fishhead | yeah if you want a lot of cost and low battery life |
| 04:27.16 | W8TVI | I though EL backlights were super low power... |
| 04:27.19 | fishhead | use a lcd |
| 04:27.19 | fishhead | bonehead |
| 04:27.21 | fishhead | no |
| 04:27.28 | fishhead | they need 100 volts at 400hz |
| 04:27.39 | W8TVI | isn't that what they use in watches? |
| 04:28.03 | W8TVI | what about that Epson E1010 |
| 04:28.30 | fishhead | they might be overall |
| 04:28.30 | fishhead | but you will need a inverter circuit |
| 04:28.30 | fishhead | el have a short life too |
| 04:28.38 | fishhead | yeah |
| 04:28.47 | fishhead | the watches don't have the light on more than a few seconds a day |
| 04:28.54 | W8TVI | yeah... |
| 04:29.05 | fishhead | charge pumps are pretty small |
| 04:29.16 | fishhead | it's a chip that uses capacitors instead of magnetic inductor coils |
| 04:29.24 | fishhead | to boost or buck or invert voltagews |
| 04:29.45 | W8TVI | ah... never mind then |
| 04:30.23 | fishhead | yeah led is much easier to drive |
| 04:30.58 | W8TVI | I ran a jumbo LED at 3v (on 2 AA batterys) for 2 weeks |
| 04:49.05 | *** join/#openembedded fishhead (~washme@12-226-219-161.client.attbi.com) |
| 04:49.08 | fishhead | stupid canucked pos |
| 04:49.13 | fishhead | once my athlon is running |
| 04:49.34 | fishhead | I think I am going to sledgehammer this bitch |
| 04:50.43 | W8TVI | fishhead: http://www.pjrc.com/store/mp3_display.html |
| 04:50.53 | W8TVI | thats what I want to use! :) |
| 04:50.59 | fishhead | w8 I knew you would find those |
| 04:51.03 | *** join/#openembedded Joelw (~joel@punz.budgetbitumen.com.au) |
| 04:51.04 | fishhead | I got 2 of those for free |
| 04:51.09 | W8TVI | free? |
| 04:51.12 | fishhead | I just need to buy firmware chips for them |
| 04:51.17 | W8TVI | ah |
| 04:51.20 | fishhead | yes from, 2 dead business phones |
| 04:51.29 | fishhead | but the phone firmware is usless |
| 04:51.34 | fishhead | btw dude |
| 04:51.38 | fishhead | those have onboard ram |
| 04:51.43 | fishhead | and 8051 microcontrollers |
| 04:51.45 | W8TVI | http://www.pjrc.com/store/39f512_jw002_plcc.html -> $8 |
| 04:51.51 | W8TVI | yeah... |
| 04:51.53 | fishhead | yeah I know |
| 04:51.58 | fishhead | but my damn ocd |
| 04:52.03 | fishhead | makes even buying a $8 part hell |
| 04:52.06 | fishhead | finally getting over it |
| 04:52.07 | W8TVI | dont know what good it'd do my project.... |
| 04:52.24 | *** join/#openembedded koyote-oz (~koyote-oz@dsl092-163-203.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 04:53.52 | *** join/#openembedded koyote-oz (~koyote-oz@dsl092-163-203.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 04:54.06 | fishhead | new medication is helping |
| 04:54.06 | fishhead | but those are nice displays |
| 04:54.06 | fishhead | 24x8 |
| 04:54.06 | fishhead | onboard 64kb of sram |
| 04:54.08 | fishhead | and a eprom socket |
| 04:54.10 | fishhead | up to 64kb |
| 04:54.12 | fishhead | 8051 microcontrollers are hardvard archtecture |
| 04:54.16 | fishhead | 64kb program memory 64kb data memory |
| 04:54.18 | fishhead | one of my favorite microcontrollers in fact |
| 04:54.20 | fishhead | over 20 yrs old and still one of th eindustries favorites |
| 04:55.08 | fishhead | microcontrollers kick ass |
| 04:55.20 | kergoth | is talking to yourself entertaining? |
| 04:55.22 | kergoth | heh |
| 04:55.54 | fishhead | so many jobs that you don't need more than a 4 or 8 bit cpu for |
| 04:55.54 | fishhead | I been talking to w8 |
| 04:55.54 | fishhead | poophead |
| 04:55.54 | fishhead | :P |
| 04:56.01 | W8TVI | still need to find a good computer to hook it to |
| 04:56.03 | koyote-oz | ah ha |
| 04:56.11 | W8TVI | the zaurus is overkill |
| 04:56.15 | W8TVI | dont need sound... |
| 04:56.18 | fishhead | w8 i'll look some more for you |
| 04:56.32 | fishhead | dude on of those $50 pda's might even work |
| 04:56.33 | koyote-oz | saturn is the best :) |
| 04:56.42 | W8TVI | and 16 to 32mb of ram would be good |
| 04:56.47 | W8TVI | $50 pda? |
| 04:56.56 | fishhead | w8 you know what's really nice about microcontrollers |
| 04:56.56 | fishhead | they are dirt cheap |
| 04:57.12 | fishhead | a lot of the 8 bit ones are only a few dollars or less than $1 |
| 04:57.20 | fishhead | so you can embedded a few dozen in the field |
| 04:57.31 | koyote-oz | some guy on ebay has a store with $49 visors |
| 04:57.50 | fishhead | taking measurements and sending the data back to a main say linux pc to process |
| 04:57.54 | fishhead | and because they are so cheap if you lose a few it's not a horrible loss |
| 04:58.02 | fishhead | vs putting a pc in the field and having it get wasted |
| 04:58.51 | W8TVI | I need a computer that can linux, has a CF or PCMCIA slot, and is low power |
| 04:59.07 | fishhead | I was talking about current $50 pda's but yeah getting discounted older palms would work |
| 04:59.13 | fishhead | palms can run uclinux |
| 04:59.34 | W8TVI | but I need a CF slot |
| 04:59.37 | W8TVI | for wireless |
| 04:59.42 | W8TVI | to run kismet |
| 05:01.37 | fishhead | mmuless linux |
| 05:01.37 | fishhead | but I don't know if your program will run on that |
| 05:01.37 | fishhead | m68k |
| 05:01.37 | fishhead | oh |
| 05:01.39 | fishhead | you are a bitch to work with, you know that |
| 05:01.41 | fishhead | ;P |
| 05:02.02 | fishhead | yeah |
| 05:02.41 | Joelw | Circuit Cellar had an article in the last two months about hooking a PCMCIA wireless card up to a microcontroller and using it to sniff things. |
| 05:02.41 | W8TVI | http://www.tiqit.com/specs.shtml |
| 05:02.44 | W8TVI | um... ok... |
| 05:03.02 | fishhead | joel he's going to need a 16 or 32 bit one though |
| 05:03.05 | fishhead | else the uc will drown |
| 05:04.24 | W8TVI | hmmm... if I didn't have a zaurus I'd want a tiqit |
| 05:05.34 | Joelw | Yeah.. they used an NEC uPD78F9418 microcontroller (8-bit, 5MHz), which was good enough for just the management frames. No reason you could use something more hardcore, though! |
| 05:05.56 | fishhead | oh |
| 05:05.58 | fishhead | that's true |
| 05:06.05 | fishhead | just the frames or header info it might work |
| 05:06.07 | fishhead | thanks joel |
| 05:06.27 | Joelw | No worries - if you're interested it was in the August 2003 issue. |
| 05:06.54 | fishhead | I am still new to this all |
| 05:06.54 | fishhead | I been a pc hardware tech for 10 yrs |
| 05:06.56 | fishhead | but since about 1 yr ago I started getting insterested into electronics |
| 05:06.58 | fishhead | microcontrollers etc |
| 05:07.17 | W8TVI | all these stupid PC/104's have a CF for harddrive, but not for anything else |
| 05:08.09 | fishhead | masn my collenction is wacked |
| 05:08.11 | fishhead | connecxtion |
| 05:11.34 | koyote | where can you actually buy a tiqit? |
| 05:12.33 | W8TVI | no idea |
| 05:16.39 | fishhead | time to get CANUCKED |
| 05:18.55 | *** join/#openembedded hunger (~hunger@pD954A7FB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 05:20.59 | fishhead | my 9500 pro rocks |
| 05:20.59 | fishhead | :) |
| 05:22.57 | W8TVI | lol |
| 05:23.17 | fishhead | the $230 I spend on my ati radeon 9500 pro was well worth it |
| 05:23.21 | fishhead | ati = canucks |
| 05:29.28 | fishhead | lkater all |
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| 05:29.37 | W8TVI | . |
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| 09:06.26 | heatxsink | ibot seen TCMAN |
| 09:06.27 | | tcman <~dominik@adsl-64-170-122-35.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #zaurus, 7h 1m 56s ago, saying: 'treke: they are in different office but i remember i forwarded one email from kergoth to them'. |
| 09:17.59 | *** join/#openembedded pb_ (~pb@2002:5160:45ef:0:2e0:7dff:fe74:8b87) |
| 09:20.09 | pb_ | morning |
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| 13:30.02 | mickeyl | mon |
| 13:30.03 | mickeyl | moin |
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| 13:49.07 | pb_ | hm, my latest attempt to add gpe to buildroot seems to have ended in abject failure. |
| 13:49.20 | pb_ | nothing unusual about that, I suppose. |
| 13:52.28 | mickeyl | abject failure? |
| 13:52.33 | pb_ | yeah |
| 13:52.40 | mickeyl | what is abject= |
| 13:52.42 | mickeyl | ? |
| 13:53.21 | mickeyl | ah |
| 13:53.24 | pb_ | oh, sorry. in this context, complete and disastrous. |
| 13:53.29 | mickeyl | ok, thanks. |
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| 13:53.32 | mickeyl | non-native speaker here :) |
| 13:53.46 | mickeyl | pb_: where did it fail? GPE itself or its dependencies? |
| 13:54.20 | pb_ | mickeyl: dependencies. I had a variety of minor issues, but was eventually thwarted by this joke rule in packages/gtk/Makefile: |
| 13:54.28 | pb_ | $(stamp-staginginstall): $(stamp-binary) |
| 13:54.29 | pb_ | false |
| 13:54.45 | pb_ | unsurprisingly, the build fails at that point. |
| 13:56.23 | pb_ | the staginginstall rules for fontconfig and xfree86 are also a bit broken. they just do "make DESTDIR=$(STAGINGDIR) install", which causes the files to wind up in output/staging/usr/lib rather than output/staging/target/lib. |
| 13:57.39 | pb_ | also, gtk, pango and atk need their aclocal.m4 files patched to use the "system" libtool rather than their own internal copies, since those don't work with cross compiling. |
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| 14:32.29 | mickeyl | hmm |
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| 14:36.49 | chouimat | morning |
| 14:37.04 | chouimat | http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030907&mode=classic |
| 14:39.16 | Twiun | hey chouimat |
| 14:39.23 | Twiun | know anything about jms? |
| 14:39.30 | chouimat | Twiun: nope |
| 14:39.32 | Twiun | mickeyl: Nice email! :) |
| 14:39.37 | Twiun | mickeyl: it needed to be said |
| 14:40.02 | chouimat | ? |
| 14:40.12 | mickeyl | Twiun: thanks. I'm usually trying to avoid stuff like that but I can't tolerate someone kicking our work like that |
| 14:40.25 | Twiun | chouimat: read mickeyl's last ml post |
| 14:40.26 | chouimat | mickeyl: ? |
| 14:40.31 | chouimat | Twiun: which ml |
| 14:40.36 | mickeyl | chouimat: openzaurus-users |
| 14:41.00 | chouimat | okk I'm not subscribed to this one |
| 14:41.13 | Twiun | it's not very high traffic, but interesting at times |
| 14:42.05 | chouimat | Twiun: forward it to me (mchoui@e-c.qc.ca) |
| 14:46.03 | Twiun | chouimat: sent |
| 14:46.13 | chouimat | http://befree.berlios.de/ |
| 14:46.47 | chouimat | hehe: Attachements could be out of order ;) |
| 14:47.50 | Twiun | chouimat: what can I say... outlook just wouldn't show the message threaded |
| 14:49.16 | chouimat | hehe |
| 14:50.22 | chouimat | nice thread and mickeyl you were too polite |
| 14:50.51 | mickeyl | mmh really? |
| 14:51.13 | chouimat | mickeyl: you need to add : shaddap moron ;) |
| 14:51.17 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 14:51.25 | mickeyl | next time i will ;) |
| 14:51.36 | pb_ | hehe |
| 14:51.38 | mickeyl | being curious about whether and what he will anser |
| 14:51.41 | mickeyl | answer even |
| 14:52.52 | chouimat | hmmm my step mother cook well but the portion size is still too small and the hamburgers I go at 3h00am are deffinitly gone ... and now I'm starving |
| 14:53.36 | mickeyl | Word sucks |
| 14:53.40 | mickeyl | it sucks big time |
| 14:53.58 | pb_ | mickeyl: first with the news :-) |
| 14:54.04 | mickeyl | hehe - my wife just wanted to do some slides containing a few math symbols |
| 14:54.08 | mickeyl | she got nearly crazy |
| 14:54.18 | mickeyl | until i forced here to remember her TeX skills |
| 14:54.22 | mickeyl | and use the Linux PC |
| 14:54.27 | pb_ | hehe |
| 14:55.09 | mickeyl | the one who invented the so called "math editor" should be shooted at immediately |
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| 14:56.19 | chouimat | mickeyl: people use windows and after that they are scared of computers ... they think a computer is as easy to use as a car or an appliance ... |
| 14:57.33 | liyang|home | (but driving a car is _not_ easy. Think how long it took you to learn to drive. But oooh, no. People just want to be able to sit down in front of a computer and have it do their bidding.) |
| 14:57.40 | mickeyl | right. |
| 14:58.44 | liyang|home | We ought to require licenses to use computers. ;) |
| 14:58.51 | mickeyl | no joking |
| 14:58.54 | mickeyl | i'd be all for it |
| 14:59.02 | chouimat | liyang|home: no a brain |
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| 14:59.40 | liyang|home | testing for that is somewhat harder, though yes, I `agree' in principle. :) |
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| 16:19.27 | treke|home | mickeyl: Nice reply |
| 16:19.45 | chouimat | http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/gma/US/GMA030905Grand_theft_murders.html <--- MORONS |
| 16:20.15 | mickeyl | treke: ;) |
| 16:21.15 | chouimat | treke|home: hehe |
| 16:21.25 | mickeyl | right |
| 16:21.40 | mickeyl | treke: did you read my botmail? sysrq is working nice - it is really a relief |
| 16:21.45 | treke|home | It takes time to figure out how it works, but once you do builds are feirly straight forward |
| 16:21.53 | treke|home | mickeyl: Yeah. Gonna do a new build today with it |
| 16:22.09 | mickeyl | treke: good luck. opie still doesn't work for me |
| 16:22.27 | treke|home | mickeyl: Two more days till harlekin gets back and we can gang up on him :) |
| 16:22.36 | mickeyl | righ :D |
| 16:22.52 | treke|home | breaking cvs and going on vacation == bad thing :p |
| 16:23.14 | chouimat | treke|home: hehe |
| 16:24.59 | mickeyl | thing is... it works on x86 |
| 16:25.05 | mickeyl | but doesn't on arm |
| 16:25.08 | mickeyl | (at least not here) |
| 16:25.09 | treke|home | odd |
| 16:25.12 | treke|home | endianness problem? |
| 16:26.07 | mickeyl | no idea, iirc it wasn't a segfault - will strace late this evening |
| 16:26.15 | mickeyl | later eve |
| 16:26.16 | mickeyl | even |
| 16:27.02 | mickeyl | i fixed the calibration not appearing problem |
| 16:27.45 | mickeyl | so first time wizard starts, then calibration appears and then nothing more because of app launching |
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| 16:27.51 | treke|home | mickeyl: Started using pyqt yesterday. Rather nice so far, but some things kept me scratch my head for a long time :) |
| 16:28.02 | mickeyl | treke|home: hehe, e.g. ? |
| 16:28.19 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 16:28.23 | mickeyl | reserved word, yeah ;) |
| 16:28.27 | treke|home | then I noticed QPEApplication used exec_loop() |
| 16:28.44 | treke|home | and made a guess that all of the exec calls were changed to exec_loop :p |
| 16:28.55 | mickeyl | educated guess :D |
| 16:29.25 | mickeyl | only rare occasions |
| 16:29.34 | treke|home | yeah. It was a good way to waste an hour and a half at the car wash :p |
| 16:29.36 | mickeyl | basically the mapping is really natural. |
| 16:29.52 | mickeyl | hehe, nice. and it's reasonably fast on the c7x0 |
| 16:29.59 | mickeyl | x>= 5, that is ;) |
| 16:30.11 | treke|home | the api seems to be more or less identical to the c++ api |
| 16:30.22 | pb_ | hi treke|home |
| 16:30.24 | treke|home | with a couple minor changes |
| 16:30.25 | treke|home | you pb_ |
| 16:30.29 | pb_ | indeed |
| 16:30.56 | mickeyl | treke: know what stopped kergoth doing all new experimental builds like promised on friday? |
| 16:31.25 | treke|home | mickeyl: As much as I hate the use of white space for blocks, it makes it much more convenient for the c7x0 keyboard |
| 16:31.35 | treke|home | mickeyl: Not sure. I think he was doing oe stuff |
| 16:31.43 | mickeyl | treke: strange. he didn't complete more than a poodle zimage. not even an initrd for poodle |
| 16:32.04 | pb_ | treke|home: I tried compiling gtk and friends in buildroot this morning, but failed. The makefiles for those packages seem to be in a bad state. |
| 16:32.18 | treke|home | pb_: You have the -devel stuff for you desktop installed? |
| 16:32.24 | treke|home | mickeyl: I want to talk to him about rootfs's |
| 16:32.27 | pb_ | treke|home: yes |
| 16:32.48 | treke|home | mickeyl|bbl: I think we can actually get away with one rootfs for poodle/corgi/shepherd/husky |
| 16:32.56 | pb_ | treke|home: the staginginstall rule for packages/gtk2 just contains "false", which seems unlikely to ever yield useful results. |
| 16:33.03 | treke|home | hahaha |
| 16:33.22 | treke|home | pb_: I think that means we never got around to doing the install into stagin |
| 16:33.30 | pb_ | heh, figured |
| 16:33.45 | treke|home | pb_: It's just a matter of installing the files into STAGING_INCDIR, STAGING_LIBDIR, and STAGING_BINDIR |
| 16:34.46 | pb_ | ok. I guess that might be within my capabilities. |
| 17:02.59 | Twiun | mickeyl|bbl: that generated quite a heated response from redtoad - although I agree that a user support buffer would be nice... think he'd volunteer? |
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| 17:19.57 | mickeyl | treke: yep, i agree. A consolidation of images would be pretty much needed. |
| 17:21.52 | mickeyl | Twiun: I should ask him... with openzaurus-users vs. openzaurus-devel he may be right, but in the end if the devels keep out of the users list there will be probably much less answers floating around. don't know if that's what he want |
| 17:26.51 | Twiun | mickeyl: maybe if he acts as moderator between lists? |
| 17:26.56 | Twiun | mickeyl: (or obviously someone else) |
| 17:27.34 | Twiun | mickeyl: so worthy questions from -users get forwarded to -devel and answers back through the intermediary |
| 17:29.13 | mickeyl | i like that human gateway idea |
| 17:33.46 | Twiun | it turns the interface into a moderation - so the moderator could perhaps comment dev replies with non-technical comments |
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| 18:22.16 | zar_- | hy all |
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| 18:28.33 | Twiun | hi zar_- |
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| 18:50.25 | pb_ | treke|ho1e: when installing into staging, do I need to copy all the runtime bits, or just the files required for building other packages? |
| 18:51.06 | kergoth | pb_: just whats needed to build other packages that depend on it. |
| 18:51.23 | pb_ | okay, cool |
| 18:54.18 | pb_ | how about .pc files, do I just use this magic $(call installpc) thing? |
| 18:55.11 | kergoth | iirc yes, it just sed's some paths. |
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| 18:55.18 | pb_ | kergoth: righto, thanks |
| 18:55.24 | Bernardo | hi |
| 18:56.10 | treke|ho1e | wheee. flameware on oz-users |
| 18:56.19 | kergoth | hehe. |
| 18:57.07 | kergoth | heheh, I had to "adjust" the tone of my emails before i sent em |
| 18:58.00 | Twiun | I was about to say, that was surprisingly tame |
| 18:59.25 | treke|ho1e | if people think getting the existing buildroot to work is hard, wait till the start trying to add new stuff to it :p |
| 18:59.40 | pb_ | fear |
| 19:00.09 | mickeyl | grrr |
| 19:00.32 | kergoth | hehe. people like to comment on its problems, but obviously have no idea what the alternative would have been |
| 19:00.40 | treke|ho1e | hehe |
| 19:00.41 | pb_ | heh |
| 19:01.04 | treke|ho1e | 200 pages of instructions on how to cross compile everything by hand :p |
| 19:01.10 | fdask | haha |
| 19:01.10 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:01.30 | fdask | who would've actually taken the time to write those? |
| 19:01.38 | kergoth | good point |
| 19:02.30 | kergoth | office space on comedy central. good stuff. |
| 19:02.56 | treke|ho1e | office space is always on comedy central. Some times I think it's the only movie they have a license for |
| 19:03.17 | kergoth | heheh |
| 19:08.00 | treke|ho1e | the biggest difference between us and tkc is that we dont make money, so we can't pay someone to do all this support crap for us :p |
| 19:10.08 | Twiun | that and there are very few people who actually like doing support... |
| 19:10.20 | Twiun | the ones that do it for a living definately don't want to bring it home |
| 19:10.37 | treke|ho1e | hehe |
| 19:10.57 | treke|ho1e | ah but kergoth doesnt do it for a living |
| 19:11.34 | Twiun | ...anymore ;) |
| 19:11.55 | Twiun | proves my point really, the ones that do support bail out asap |
| 19:12.16 | treke|ho1e | apt-get remove module-init-tools |
| 19:12.43 | treke|ho1e | oops. |
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| 19:32.07 | treke|ho1e | this having to rerip cds is absolutly no fun |
| 19:34.06 | pb_ | phew, gtk staginginstall completed. |
| 19:34.07 | Twiun | for ogg? |
| 19:34.12 | pb_ | now the build fails in... matchbox! |
| 19:34.25 | pb_ | this is no fun either. |
| 19:34.40 | treke|ho1e | Twiun: Yeah doing them in ogg. 2.6.0-test4 wiped out my hard drives last week, so I need to start over |
| 19:35.23 | treke|ho1e | Twiun: oggenc is a whole lot faster than it used to be, it now encodes the stuff almost instantaneosly :p |
| 19:35.30 | pb_ | oh, now it's forgotten my gcc configuration again. anybody know why that happens? |
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| 19:35.44 | treke|ho1e | Twiun: my last attempt at oggencoding took about an hour per cd ( not including rip time) |
| 19:36.18 | W8TVI-z | you must have a slow computer |
| 19:36.26 | treke|ho1e | nope. Same machine |
| 19:36.28 | treke|ho1e | oddly enough |
| 19:37.11 | treke|ho1e | something in oggenc has definitly changed |
| 19:37.24 | W8TVI-z | mine can do a whole cd (ogg or mp3) in about 15mins |
| 19:37.38 | W8TVI-z | its only a 1ghz |
| 19:37.55 | treke|ho1e | mp3s took about a minute each. the oggs took about 10 |
| 19:38.03 | W8TVI-z | and I do it on winXP |
| 19:38.04 | treke|ho1e | Now for some reason oggs take about 45 seconds |
| 19:38.12 | treke|ho1e | So something has changed. |
| 19:38.38 | Twiun | sure the files aren't full of 0x0? |
| 19:38.43 | treke|ho1e | hyehe |
| 19:39.24 | treke|ho1e | maybe oggenc is just really slow with low bitrate encoding |
| 19:43.42 | W8TVI-z | my new cd player uses atrac3 compresion |
| 19:44.39 | W8TVI-z | took about 30mins to transcode and burn 550mb of music |
| 19:45.04 | W8TVI-z | I can also just use mp3 cds |
| 19:57.15 | Twiun | all we need now is that functionality but for ogg |
| 19:57.22 | Twiun | cram even more music into a cd |
| 19:57.40 | Twiun | portable dvd player... yum |
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| 20:38.05 | zar_- | anyone from ohio? |
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| 21:31.45 | treke|ho1e | god damn. plucker is *still* running |
| 21:48.27 | ljp | hmm |
| 21:48.47 | treke|ho1e | it's been running since wednesday :) |
| 21:49.05 | ljp | hmm, is that odd? |
| 21:53.24 | chouimat | hi ljp |
| 21:55.25 | chouimat | treke|ho1e: huge document to convert I see :) |
| 21:55.34 | treke|ho1e | chouimat: python manual |
| 21:55.47 | chouimat | treke|ho1e: huge manual |
| 21:55.56 | treke|ho1e | chouimat: yeah, but plucker is going horribly slow |
| 21:56.11 | treke|ho1e | the files are all local, and it's parsed most of them |
| 21:56.33 | chouimat | treke|ho1e: did you try jpluck? |
| 21:56.56 | treke|ho1e | nope, using plucker-desktop atm |
| 21:59.12 | treke|ho1e | hmmm. trolltech reogranized their site |
| 22:02.50 | treke|ho1e | where did tmake get moved to :p |
| 22:07.55 | ljp | there was am email about that hmm. I wonder if I can find it |
| 22:09.37 | ljp | of tmake? or the internal email I am looking for? ;) |
| 22:09.44 | treke|ho1e | both |
| 22:09.56 | treke|ho1e | I hacked trolltech |
| 22:17.30 | treke|ho1e | hmmm there is a free qsa? |
| 22:18.00 | tronical | treke|ho1e: qsa is available under the terms of the GPL |
| 22:18.30 | treke|ho1e | nifty. I thought it was proprietary. just saw the qsa-x11-free packages while hunting for tmake source |
| 22:18.48 | ljp | it is also gpl |
| 22:20.22 | pb_ | what's qsa? |
| 22:21.20 | tronical | pb_: qt script for applications. a scripting engine (based on javascript (as language)) that makes it trivial to script qt c++ applications (or even write applications in it) |
| 22:21.40 | pb_ | aha |
| 22:21.44 | tronical | it's quite nifty in the way it allows exporting your own C++ objects to scripts |
| 22:21.52 | treke|ho1e | shit, trolltech has got to be racking in the dough |
| 22:24.30 | pb_ | how else would they afford to hire ljp? |
| 22:24.38 | tronical | hehe |
| 22:24.40 | pb_ | or, more to the point, to bribe immigration to let him in. |
| 22:26.43 | ljp | getting in was easy. it's staying thats difficult |
| 22:27.22 | pb_ | ah |
| 22:31.55 | chouimat | ljp? |
| 22:32.11 | ljp | ya] |
| 22:32.29 | chouimat | ljp: want to go back in us? |
| 22:32.54 | ljp | no. staying, as in getting imm to get my work visa |
| 22:33.22 | chouimat | ljp: what? still waiting |
| 22:33.27 | treke|ho1e | there is about 2 million people in california who would say otherwise |
| 22:33.27 | ljp | yes |
| 22:33.28 | pb_ | I thought TT sorted out all that paperwork before you left. Wasn't that the reason for that huge delay? |
| 22:33.44 | ljp | the delay is with .au immigration |
| 22:33.53 | ljp | I am only on a short stay business visa |
| 22:33.58 | pb_ | oh, I see. |
| 22:34.06 | chouimat | ljp: 3 months ? |
| 22:34.23 | ljp | ya |
| 22:34.39 | ljp | might have to fly to hawaii for a day or two and come back |
| 22:34.39 | treke|ho1e | so you're kinda in trouble in one month :p |
| 22:34.55 | treke|ho1e | hopefully trolltech will foot the bill |
| 22:35.00 | pb_ | ljp: heh, life is hard. |
| 22:35.05 | ljp | yup |
| 22:35.58 | treke|ho1e | <warwick> well he cant afford hawaii, how about this cannibal island just off the coast? |
| 22:36.17 | ljp | it might have to be to the US |
| 22:36.23 | treke|ho1e | <warwick> The seven americas who stayed their last had a pleasant time |
| 22:37.24 | treke|ho1e | how soon you forget. the whole world is america |
| 22:37.40 | ljp | ahhhh |
| 22:37.40 | treke|ho1e | pb_: how comes gtk? |
| 22:38.04 | pb_ | treke|ho1e: well, I fixed the staginginstall thing and then ran into a problem with matchbox. |
| 22:38.15 | treke|ho1e | ah |
| 22:38.17 | treke|ho1e | what was the problem? |
| 22:38.37 | pb_ | I tried to turn matchbox off, but forgot that every time I run make menuconfig, it destroys all my configuration. I didn't have the heart to go through and select everything again so I gave up at that point. |
| 22:38.48 | pb_ | treke|ho1e: patch doesn't apply |
| 22:38.57 | treke|ho1e | ah |
| 22:40.34 | chouimat | ljp: I envy you ... using teambuilder everyday at work :) |
| 22:41.20 | pb_ | treke|ho1e: is there an alternative configuration utility I can use that will retain my settings from one run to the next? |
| 22:41.54 | treke|ho1e | make menuconfig should |
| 22:42.08 | pb_ | ah, hm |
| 22:42.14 | treke|ho1e | unless you had something setup inconsistantly pretty high up in the dependency chain |
| 22:42.22 | treke|ho1e | like a nonmatching glibc/gcc |
| 22:42.50 | pb_ | every time I run it, it seems to turn off gcc and glibc, which then causes everything else to get switched off too. |
| 22:43.18 | pb_ | I can enable everything again, save the .config and build, but if I run menuconfig again the same thing happens. |
| 22:44.00 | treke|ho1e | hmmm |
| 22:47.32 | kergoth | i think i remember fixing that bug |
| 22:47.38 | kergoth | are you using a snapshot? could be old |
| 22:47.41 | pb_ | yeah |
| 22:47.44 | treke|ho1e | ah |
| 22:47.49 | treke|ho1e | the snapshot is a couple months old |
| 22:47.52 | pb_ | ah, is the bit about the snapshots being updated every four hours a lie? |
| 22:47.53 | kergoth | nah |
| 22:47.56 | kergoth | i updated it a couple weeks ago |
| 22:48.00 | kergoth | pb_: the tarball is updated.. |
| 22:48.06 | kergoth | pb_: but the tree that it comes from isnt |
| 22:48.09 | kergoth | heh |
| 22:48.10 | treke|ho1e | just not the contents :p |
| 22:48.15 | pb_ | kergoth: heh |
| 22:48.24 | kergoth | need to start a new snapshot job and tell scanline to kill that one |
| 22:48.28 | ljp | chouimat: make -j26 works wonders, although opie and buildroot dont like it |
| 22:48.40 | kergoth | treke|ho1e: use bk export |
| 22:48.48 | kergoth | bk export buildroot buildroot-exported |
| 22:48.54 | kergoth | kills all the unnecessary metadata for the repos |
| 22:48.56 | treke|ho1e | ok |
| 22:49.21 | pb_ | cool |
| 22:49.30 | treke|ho1e | hmmm. smells like my lunch is done. brb then I'll export |
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| 22:50.09 | pb_ | I'll look at it tomorrow though. |
| 22:50.35 | kergoth | treke|ho1e: you eat lunch in the evening? :) |
| 22:50.58 | treke|ho1e | well it's 4pm. |
| 22:51.15 | treke|ho1e | about an hour later than my usual lunch, but close |
| 22:52.11 | chouimat | ljp: we used it in n7y and make -j at 4h00am was fun :) |
| 22:53.10 | chouimat | ljp: so fix opie :) |
| 22:53.47 | kergoth | treke|ho1e: we dont use it anyway |
| 22:53.58 | treke|ho1e | kergoth: something depends on it :p |
| 22:54.06 | kergoth | then fix that something |
| 22:54.08 | kergoth | 's config.in |
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| 23:55.46 | BBBMatthew | phew |
| 23:56.01 | BBBMatthew | hopefully spannered the xine lib problem |