| 00:13.19 | treke|ho1e | so. 750 or 760 |
| 00:13.22 | treke|ho1e | tough question |
| 00:13.55 | andersee | only difference is battry size, right? |
| 00:14.05 | treke|ho1e | and flash space iirc |
| 00:14.30 | treke|ho1e | tkc is claiming 128MB flash |
| 00:14.59 | treke|ho1e | as much as I dislike shawn gordon, I dont like him enough to pay 50 bucks more :p |
| 00:15.35 | andersee | shawn gordon? |
| 00:15.36 | treke|ho1e | and flash space is a non issue, so it really boils down to battery |
| 00:15.46 | treke|ho1e | 64MB of flash is plenty |
| 00:15.50 | treke|ho1e | andersee: owner of tkc |
| 00:15.54 | andersee | ahh |
| 00:16.06 | treke|ho1e | 64MB of storage is about 4 times what he has now |
| 00:16.32 | andersee | and numerous CF cards |
| 00:16.33 | treke|ho1e | that too |
| 00:16.39 | treke|ho1e | so it buils down to the battery |
| 00:16.49 | ljp | yes, 128 flash |
| 00:16.52 | andersee | battery size difference? |
| 00:17.02 | andersee | much much difference is there? |
| 00:17.12 | dotPixel | i compared the 750 to the 760 in japan, and end up buying the 750 because th e760 was too big |
| 00:17.24 | dotPixel | the battery makes the machine bigger |
| 00:17.27 | treke|ho1e | andersee: 950 vs 1800 |
| 00:17.45 | treke|ho1e | so its a significant difference in size. Dont know about life though |
| 00:17.56 | treke|ho1e | dotPixel: How long does your battery usually last? |
| 00:18.21 | dotPixel | donno |
| 00:18.27 | dotPixel | enough |
| 00:18.43 | treke|ho1e | hehe. That is good enough for me :p |
| 00:18.55 | dotPixel | can't watch a fulllength mpg movie with full backlightning on one charge |
| 00:19.18 | dotPixel | but i use it to read docs and i think it's good enough for that |
| 00:19.27 | dotPixel | i don't either, jus thad to try it |
| 00:20.23 | treke|ho1e | my peak usage would be 2 hours of wireless |
| 00:20.35 | dotPixel | donno about wireless time |
| 00:21.09 | dotPixel | haven't got my 802.11 CF card yet |
| 00:21.18 | treke|ho1e | hmmm |
| 00:21.32 | treke|ho1e | I wonder if the discount for tkc kicks in |
| 00:21.37 | treke|ho1e | I might buy more apps if it does :p |
| 00:22.40 | andersee | tkc url? |
| 00:22.53 | dotPixel | Whttp://www.thekompany.com/home/ |
| 00:26.05 | dotPixel | Whats the difference between opie and qtopia ? |
| 00:26.19 | absentia | open source and not ? |
| 00:26.33 | andersee | and tkc sells the 750? |
| 00:26.52 | treke|ho1e | dotPixel: OPIE is based off of an older qtopia |
| 00:26.55 | treke|ho1e | andersee: they do now |
| 00:27.03 | treke|ho1e | and for about 50 bucks cheaper than dynamism |
| 00:27.09 | absentia | yes |
| 00:27.15 | absentia | but I just ordered from dynamism |
| 00:27.15 | dotPixel | Whats best then ? |
| 00:27.26 | treke|ho1e | dotPixel: Since then there have been improvements to both, but they are still fairly similar |
| 00:27.29 | treke|ho1e | andersee: 650 |
| 00:27.30 | absentia | why? only $50 more... 2-3 day delivery, not 2-3 weeks... and english conversion .. and 1 year warranty. |
| 00:27.32 | kergoth | is tkc waranteeing it? if not, i'd say go with brando. |
| 00:27.42 | treke|ho1e | absentia: which did you get |
| 00:27.44 | treke|ho1e | kergoth: they are |
| 00:27.46 | absentia | it's 2 clicks |
| 00:27.48 | absentia | kergoth: not that I see |
| 00:27.57 | absentia | 760 |
| 00:28.10 | treke|ho1e | unless I'm misreading it |
| 00:28.17 | absentia | I found I can put in a normal battery and not have it be thick.. so I"m happy. |
| 00:29.37 | treke|ho1e | ibot, brando? |
| 00:29.37 | | well, brando is sells/exports the Sharp Zaurus and other electronics http://shop.brando.com.hk/ or mailto:brando@brando.com.hk. C700 $500, C750 $525, C760 $610 USD, (and $45 shipping via fedex) use email for zaurus orders, or plus shipping, or no warranty and japanese sortware. |
| 00:29.47 | treke|ho1e | kergoth: what kind of battery life do you get on the c750? |
| 00:30.02 | kergoth | dunno, i'm almost always tethered to a wall |
| 00:30.16 | treke|ho1e | hehe |
| 00:30.52 | treke|ho1e | now that I've seen brando I'm torn on the warranty |
| 00:33.15 | treke|ho1e | except I dont see it on his site |
| 00:34.57 | dotPixel | kergoth, got a c750 ? |
| 00:35.32 | treke|ho1e | hmmm. didnt dynamism have some kind of developer discount? :P |
| 00:41.40 | *** join/#openembedded stigger (stigger@p050-n1-gos.nlc.net.au) |
| 00:44.03 | treke|ho1e | absentia: does dynamism do online ordering? |
| 00:44.28 | absentia | I Think so |
| 00:44.30 | absentia | but I like to call in |
| 00:45.48 | absentia | oh ya, that's the one she pole dances to... :-) |
| 00:46.02 | absentia | hmmm, wrong channel. |
| 00:46.42 | treke|ho1e | definitly |
| 00:47.03 | absentia | paul cole... feelin' love... ever heard it ? |
| 00:47.40 | treke|ho1e | ok. so I'm 40 minutes late to order, so I guess I'll order monday |
| 00:49.25 | ljp | this c700 battery life far exceeds the 5000d |
| 00:49.41 | treke|ho1e | ljp: From what I've heard, that isnt saying much |
| 00:50.06 | treke|ho1e | "being shot in the head is less painful than being burned alive" |
| 00:51.38 | ljp | hehe, I was just going to say that |
| 00:53.16 | treke|ho1e | hopefully SD performance is improved over the 3800 |
| 01:15.53 | *** join/#openembedded drw-ipaq (~drw-ipaq@12-241-65-192.client.attbi.com) |
| 01:16.52 | *** join/#openembedded Pendalar (Pendalar@68.114.156.106) |
| 01:27.24 | *** join/#openembedded TCMAN (~dominik@adsl-64-170-120-160.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 01:27.25 | TCMAN | hi |
| 01:28.03 | treke|ho1e | ljp: stupid question, but what type of physical buttons does the C700 have? |
| 01:31.51 | *** join/#openembedded andersee (~andersee@codepoet.org) |
| 01:35.44 | treke|ho1e | hmmm. the 750 seems to be cable only. no cradle |
| 01:36.23 | kergoth | thats true of all the c7x0 |
| 01:36.36 | treke|ho1e | yeah. Just surprising |
| 01:36.50 | treke|ho1e | wouldnt keep me from buying one |
| 01:37.16 | treke|ho1e | no more games from neo though :p |
| 01:37.49 | kergoth | ? |
| 01:38.07 | treke|ho1e | lack of arrow keys seems detrimental to games |
| 01:38.42 | andersee | treke|ho1e: you can still play nethack with the 'vi' keys... |
| 01:38.46 | andersee | :-) |
| 01:38.48 | treke|ho1e | ha |
| 01:38.52 | kergoth | lack of arrow keys? |
| 01:39.04 | treke|ho1e | kergoth: I'm talking about in view mode |
| 01:39.14 | kergoth | oh, portrait orientation |
| 01:39.17 | kergoth | yeah, its not a gaming device |
| 01:39.25 | treke|ho1e | yup |
| 01:40.28 | kergoth | heh, if i want portable games i'll dig out my dust covered gba |
| 01:40.42 | treke|ho1e | just as long as opiereader works |
| 01:41.36 | ljp | you read a lot on your zaurus? |
| 01:41.45 | treke|ho1e | yes |
| 01:41.50 | treke|ho1e | well no |
| 01:41.54 | absentia | I do |
| 01:41.54 | treke|ho1e | I read a lot on my ipaq |
| 01:41.56 | ljp | is that uncomfortable? |
| 01:42.03 | treke|ho1e | ljp: no |
| 01:42.20 | ljp | does opiereader have a full screen mode? |
| 01:42.26 | treke|ho1e | yes |
| 01:42.28 | treke|ho1e | but I dont use it |
| 01:42.57 | treke|ho1e | the lack of arrow keys in view mode does concern be regarding that |
| 01:43.38 | kergoth | treke|ho1e: jog dial |
| 01:43.42 | kergoth | treke|ho1e: just fine for scrolling |
| 01:43.45 | absentia | grrr |
| 01:43.55 | treke|ho1e | oh? |
| 01:43.58 | treke|ho1e | thats even better |
| 01:44.11 | treke|ho1e | the one thing that is uncomfortable about ipaq reading is the lack of a jog dial |
| 01:46.24 | cyn | absentia: quotes |
| 01:46.31 | absentia | how |
| 01:46.49 | absentia | scp user@remote:/full path/with spaces/to file (1) with more crap |
| 01:46.55 | absentia | how do I quote that? |
| 01:47.01 | absentia | if I use quotes locally, they are dropped remote... |
| 01:47.07 | absentia | if I use them remote, it takes them as part of the file name! |
| 01:48.30 | ljp | dont use spaces in filenames |
| 01:48.43 | absentia | uh |
| 01:48.47 | absentia | that doesn't help me. |
| 01:55.22 | treke|ho1e | can I hurthim? |
| 01:55.24 | treke|ho1e | please? |
| 01:55.37 | Masticator | damn ESR is such an immature dumbass |
| 01:55.49 | Masticator | did anyone read his mouth foaming rant on linux.com? |
| 01:58.48 | kergoth | absentia: escape the spaces then. |
| 01:59.23 | Masticator | wussp kergie |
| 01:59.30 | kergoth | scp '/path/to/my\ file' u@remote:/path/ oughtta work |
| 01:59.37 | kergoth | been sick as a dog for days |
| 01:59.41 | Masticator | damn |
| 01:59.43 | kergoth | starting to improve though |
| 01:59.46 | Masticator | food poisoning? |
| 01:59.58 | kergoth | nah, probably just flu |
| 02:00.11 | Masticator | shit, you havent been having sex with chinese chicks have you? |
| 02:00.15 | Masticator | lol |
| 02:00.19 | kergoth | surprised me, normally only get sick once every few years |
| 02:00.24 | kergoth | hah |
| 02:00.24 | kergoth | brb |
| 02:00.37 | ljp | new place, you tend to get sick |
| 02:00.43 | Masticator | dont eat that chinese pussy |
| 02:00.51 | *** join/#openembedded W8TVI (~W8TVI@3639246464.mi.dial.hexcom.net) |
| 02:01.04 | ljp | but if you do, spread MSG on it |
| 02:01.19 | ljp | that'll make it taste better |
| 02:01.20 | Masticator | ljp: yes, solid advice |
| 02:01.40 | Masticator | and after eating it you'll want more an hour later |
| 02:02.52 | ljp | hmmm, perhaps |
| 02:03.03 | ljp | or, you will want a pizza |
| 02:08.07 | Masticator | what an ass he is |
| 02:08.11 | Masticator | he makes us all look bad |
| 02:08.28 | Masticator | makes us all look socially inept and uncivilized |
| 02:08.45 | Masticator | no "leader" should ever stoop to the level he is at |
| 02:09.07 | Masticator | real leaders like Mad Dog don't act like that |
| 02:09.19 | Masticator | Mad Dog earns your respect, he does not command it |
| 02:09.37 | Masticator | or throw his weight around for the purpose of "impressing" the linux masses |
| 02:09.41 | Masticator | what ESR does is sophomoric |
| 02:10.50 | Masticator | all he is doing is make a bad situation worse |
| 02:11.04 | Masticator | let SCO hang itself without us acting like a bunch of 10 year olds |
| 02:11.11 | Masticator | and let IBM do its job |
| 02:15.33 | absentia | :-) |
| 02:15.34 | absentia | got it |
| 02:15.39 | absentia | (had to go eat dinner first) |
| 02:16.22 | absentia | a little perl magic |
| 02:16.25 | absentia | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:16.25 | absentia | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:16.25 | absentia | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:18.14 | treke|ho1e | man. perl is ugly |
| 02:18.35 | absentia | got the job done |
| 02:18.43 | absentia | 2 lines.... worked right away... etc. |
| 02:18.53 | absentia | but, ya, it's fugly. |
| 02:19.32 | absentia | this is one of my favorites... I did this for unix config files: |
| 02:19.35 | absentia | ("@_" =~ m@(?:^|\n)\s*\b$pat\b\s+(?:[^\n]*?)\s*([^\n\s]+?)\s*(?:#[^\n]*?)?\s* |
| 02:19.35 | absentia | (?=\n)@ig); |
| 02:19.42 | Masticator | jesus |
| 02:20.35 | absentia | parses apache config files... and returns the first word on the line and the next... and skips comments... and does it in 1 pass... etc. |
| 02:21.40 | Masticator | perl is evil |
| 02:21.48 | Masticator | I try never to use it for web applications |
| 02:21.52 | treke|ho1e | about the only thing you cant accuse perl of is not getting the job done |
| 02:21.58 | absentia | merlyn says my code scares'm |
| 02:22.13 | Masticator | perl uses up serious CPU |
| 02:22.15 | absentia | actually, perl once told me that my regexp was too complicated for it (perl) and gave up. |
| 02:22.40 | Masticator | I had a bbs system that ran on perl... when I converted to a php based system I gained like 60 percent of my cpu cycles back |
| 02:22.50 | absentia | ah |
| 02:22.55 | Masticator | right now my site's CMS system is perl based |
| 02:22.58 | absentia | but that's lame perl execs |
| 02:23.03 | Masticator | waiting to go to something that is PHP and decent |
| 02:23.04 | absentia | if you wrote a perl web server |
| 02:23.06 | absentia | (like I did |
| 02:23.10 | absentia | ) ... then it was very fast. |
| 02:23.14 | absentia | always in memory, etc. |
| 02:23.29 | absentia | you know |
| 02:23.29 | Masticator | not when you have 500 users executing it at once |
| 02:23.35 | absentia | for a while.. I did my cgis in java. |
| 02:23.37 | Masticator | for small tasks its fine |
| 02:23.46 | Masticator | cgi is horrendous with large traffic servers |
| 02:23.51 | absentia | nice 200byte class... w/ a 50mb runtime library attached |
| 02:24.01 | absentia | masticator: 1 cgi image |
| 02:24.04 | absentia | that servers all 500 |
| 02:24.06 | absentia | async |
| 02:24.16 | Masticator | perl to mysql connectivity is kludgy too |
| 02:24.20 | absentia | yup |
| 02:24.24 | absentia | I stay far away fro mthat. |
| 02:24.24 | Masticator | php is way way faster |
| 02:24.26 | absentia | I"m learning python |
| 02:24.34 | absentia | php is evil. |
| 02:24.42 | Masticator | php is awesome |
| 02:24.48 | treke|ho1e | php is also a much nastier langauage to develop in |
| 02:25.02 | absentia | yup |
| 02:25.02 | Masticator | dude you can develop a LOT faster in php |
| 02:25.26 | Masticator | database apps are much easier to build with php |
| 02:25.33 | treke|ho1e | you can also end up with nasty hacks of programs faster withphp |
| 02:25.59 | Masticator | python is good but its overhead is almost as nasty as perl's |
| 02:26.25 | Masticator | phython is totally friggin impractical for embedded development too |
| 02:26.26 | treke|ho1e | Masticator: I suspect a lot of the overhead will go away with a mod_python or mod_perl |
| 02:26.54 | Masticator | python is slow as shit on handhelds |
| 02:27.03 | absentia | treke: listen to what I said... do the whole thing in one image... |
| 02:27.16 | absentia | not al these multi execs of the interpreter... for each call.. etc. |
| 02:28.19 | treke|ho1e | yeah. cgi is the problem not perl :P |
| 02:29.17 | absentia | huh? |
| 02:29.36 | treke|ho1e | unless i misread what you said |
| 02:29.57 | absentia | cgi is a protocol |
| 02:29.59 | absentia | it's not bad |
| 02:30.01 | absentia | perl is not bad |
| 02:30.20 | absentia | calling java 500 times.. ( a sec? ) or c, or sh... or python.... is rough. |
| 02:30.26 | treke|ho1e | yup |
| 02:30.29 | absentia | but if you don't have that initial start up hit, it's much better. |
| 02:30.50 | absentia | hence, I wrote a server in perl and did what I needed.... it was sufficient. |
| 02:31.23 | absentia | I'll try to learn twisted .... just to save the low level dev time... |
| 02:31.38 | treke|ho1e | didnt redhat 8 ship php running in CGI mode? |
| 02:31.44 | absentia | not sure |
| 02:31.51 | absentia | I first used red hat with redhat 9 |
| 02:31.56 | absentia | and only then I've just installed it. |
| 02:32.17 | treke|ho1e | absentia: they swtiched to apache 2 with redhat 8 |
| 02:32.29 | treke|ho1e | but they shipped it before mod_php and mod_perl were considered safe on apache2 |
| 02:36.28 | kergoth | treke|ho1e: heh, i say that with every rh .0 release |
| 02:36.47 | treke|ho1e | oddly enough, so do I |
| 02:36.55 | treke|ho1e | I liked 6.0 |
| 02:37.00 | treke|ho1e | but I didnt know any better at the time |
| 02:37.10 | treke|ho1e | and I think it had gnome |
| 02:37.13 | treke|ho1e | so I was happy |
| 02:38.33 | treke|ho1e | kergoth: took a while before I was willing to upgrade from 6.2 :p |
| 02:38.40 | kergoth | yeah, 6.2 was solid. |
| 02:39.19 | treke|ho1e | same is happening with 7.3 |
| 02:39.31 | treke|ho1e | I still dont feel good about using 9.0 or even 8.1 |
| 02:39.33 | kergoth | yep |
| 02:44.35 | treke|ho1e | I never get that feeling with debian, but its much more work when you want something like php upgraded quicker |
| 02:47.43 | Masticator | SuSE is now my server OS of choice |
| 02:51.15 | ljp | I have suse 8.2 here at work. |
| 02:53.33 | *** join/#openembedded effy-kun (effy-kun@N007243.ppp.dion.ne.jp) |
| 02:56.28 | ljp | I need a money app that does international conversions on the fly |
| 02:56.57 | ljp | well, if they use all 4 channels on the c7xx it would be improved |
| 02:57.23 | treke|ho1e | the "if" is the important part :p |
| 02:58.16 | ljp | take it apart and check |
| 02:58.39 | treke|ho1e | how about you do it |
| 02:58.42 | treke|ho1e | you are on the clock |
| 03:00.47 | ljp | there is no clock |
| 03:01.04 | treke|ho1e | it's the round thing on the wall |
| 03:01.08 | ljp | and I only have access to a c700 |
| 03:01.17 | ljp | hmm.. no round thing on the wall |
| 03:01.31 | *** join/#openembedded W8TVI (~W8TVI@216.234.123.54) |
| 03:02.16 | ljp | cool, I took out $200 AUD from an ATM, and it withdrew $137 |
| 03:02.29 | ljp | from my US account |
| 03:03.30 | *** join/#openembedded andreas_gi_ (~andreas@L1274P03.dipool.highway.telekom.at) |
| 03:04.02 | treke|ho1e | funny. same thing happened when I took 200 AUD out of your US bank account |
| 03:04.58 | ljp | hahaha |
| 03:05.19 | ljp | ibot: 145 *.65 |
| 03:05.19 | | 94.25 |
| 03:05.30 | ljp | ibot: 94.24 *4 |
| 03:05.31 | | 376.96 |
| 03:05.42 | ljp | thats my rent |
| 03:12.00 | treke|ho1e | nice |
| 03:12.07 | treke|ho1e | mine is a bit higher :p |
| 03:12.16 | kergoth | hewh |
| 03:12.17 | kergoth | "a bit" |
| 03:12.21 | imk | $1200/mo here |
| 03:12.27 | imk | but its a 3 bedroom house |
| 03:12.27 | treke|ho1e | 950 here |
| 03:12.32 | imk | not an apartment |
| 03:14.18 | ljp | mine is a 'granny flat', or 'mother-in-law' its like a small house on the side of a house |
| 03:16.09 | ljp | I have been doing php all week |
| 03:16.23 | treke|ho1e | poor guy |
| 03:22.05 | *** join/#openembedded TheMasterMind1 (~aman@h-66-167-234-142.MCLNVA23.covad.net) |
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| 03:55.35 | mithro | hello everyone... |
| 04:09.16 | ljp | can anyone access trolltech.com? |
| 04:13.44 | mewyn | woo. i've got copies of SoBig |
| 04:15.47 | ljp | where? in your src directory? |
| 04:22.58 | *** join/#openembedded Shdwdrgn (Picard@sourpuss.net) |
| 04:25.38 | *** join/#openembedded andersee (~andersee@codepoet.org) |
| 04:27.05 | nightfire | well, i've almost got debian as my primary OS on my c760 now. |
| 04:27.05 | mewyn | ljp: inbox |
| 04:27.13 | nightfire | wrong channel i guess :P |
| 04:27.23 | mewyn | some guy from florida has my email address in their inbox, and fucking clicked on sobig |
| 04:28.02 | mewyn | i want to know who the hell in florida has my email |
| 04:34.58 | W8TVI | my mom got like 7 e-mails of that... but our mail server scrubs the messages |
| 04:35.18 | W8TVI | and I only download my e-mail under linux anyway |
| 04:36.10 | mewyn | my email server is marking them as spam because of the poorly forged headers |
| 04:41.23 | W8TVI | cool: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/32469.html |
| 04:41.39 | W8TVI | if it wasn't for the drm junk it'd VERY COOL |
| 04:41.58 | W8TVI | Toshiba HDD MP3 player |
| 04:42.07 | W8TVI | 20GB 1.8in hard drive. |
| 04:42.24 | W8TVI | USB 2.0 |
| 04:53.09 | *** part/#openembedded ChipX86 (chipx86@chipx86.radio.freenode) |
| 05:03.01 | kergoth | Pendalar: eh, problems? |
| 05:03.07 | kergoth | i think we know you're back. |
| 05:03.20 | W8TVI | ~lart Pendalar |
| 05:06.40 | Masticator | blah. |
| 05:21.08 | imk | W8TVI: archos has had mp3 players like that forever |
| 05:21.13 | imk | i have an older model with a 6gb hdd in it |
| 05:21.23 | imk | i use it to transfer files around too (not just mp3s) |
| 05:21.36 | W8TVI | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:22.11 | imk | well i dunno if its 1.8in but its pretty fuckin small |
| 05:24.32 | W8TVI | lol' |
| 05:24.32 | W8TVI | <Gepeto> W8TVI: trolling and flamewars are cool |
| 05:25.01 | treke|ho1e | kergoth: zstyle has been updated |
| 05:25.13 | treke|ho1e | kergoth: perhaps this means sandman has returned to life |
| 05:25.21 | *** join/#openembedded mithro_ (~tim@dsl1-83.gw1.adl1.airnet.com.au) |
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| 05:50.51 | W8TVI | imk: just before my zaurus was killed I exported my favorites from my browser and made them how home page on my zaurus |
| 05:51.16 | imk | huh? |
| 05:51.59 | W8TVI | used my bookmarks from my desktop as a start page for opera on my zaurus |
| 05:52.12 | imk | ohhh |
| 05:52.21 | imk | i have opera6 on my Z but pngs dont load in it |
| 05:52.25 | imk | so i use konqueror |
| 05:52.30 | imk | i like konq better anyway |
| 05:52.41 | W8TVI | I think you need to install the lib for pngs |
| 05:53.22 | imk | yeah, specifically to opera, though |
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| 06:01.23 | HeatxSink | TCMAN-nap: what up? |
| 06:01.28 | HeatxSink | TCMAN-nap: i guess your napping |
| 06:04.23 | W8TVI | http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/56/32425.html |
| 06:04.28 | W8TVI | those morons |
| 06:04.41 | W8TVI | why were they using windows servers?!@ |
| 06:09.36 | W8TVI | ~lart Davis-Besse nuclear power for running windows servers |
| 06:14.30 | HeatxSink | W8TVI: hey did you see that one article with Torvolds being quoted that SCO is on crack? |
| 06:14.32 | HeatxSink | it's cool |
| 06:14.36 | W8TVI | no |
| 06:14.37 | HeatxSink | opps I mean smoking crack |
| 06:14.40 | HeatxSink | nice |
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| 07:08.33 | W8TVI | AirMagnet Wireless LAN Handheld Analyzer |
| 07:08.33 | W8TVI | : ($2,495 MSRP) |
| 07:08.36 | W8TVI | "The standard product currently includes software (Version 1.20) supporting Pocket PC 2002, one AirMagnet 802.11b PC Card, and three months toll free telephone technical support. The standard pricing of $2,495 does not include the actual Pocket PC hardware, however. |
| 07:08.36 | W8TVI | " |
| 07:09.24 | W8TVI | dang... Id rather get a zaurus or ipaq and a $75 802.11 card and run kismit |
| 07:09.27 | W8TVI | kismet |
| 07:11.15 | W8TVI | heh |
| 07:11.18 | W8TVI | "Something else that goes with testing in highly populated, public areas is the attention you receive. At first, we were strongly aware of people staring at us while performing the testing. Our strange contraptions were obviously not what passengers were expecting to see at the airport. The common question was "what is that thing?" Our standard response was "we're testing for aliens." It's amazing how many people appeared to believe us" |
| 07:11.25 | W8TVI | http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/columns/article.php/1479831 |
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| 12:57.39 | mickeyl | hi |
| 12:57.43 | mickeyl | what's new? |
| 12:59.04 | Twiun | got back into developing fbawt, you? |
| 12:59.10 | Twiun | how was your break? |
| 12:59.22 | mickeyl | nice - could've been longer though ;) |
| 13:00.10 | mickeyl | just did a big python + py*** upgrade in buildroot |
| 13:00.23 | Twiun | great :) |
| 13:00.37 | Twiun | time to update mine :) |
| 13:00.42 | mickeyl | yeah. |
| 13:01.05 | mickeyl | will do a bit more work on wellenreiter in the next days. this project has been stalled a bit, so I'm going to revive :) |
| 13:04.43 | Twiun | oh, and I finally placed the order for my laptop :) |
| 13:04.55 | Twiun | I'll be able to do lots more dev while commuting |
| 13:05.10 | mickeyl | hah that's nice |
| 13:05.17 | mickeyl | which one did you order? |
| 13:06.15 | Twiun | I went for a thinkpad, the 2.2GHz r40e |
| 13:06.29 | Twiun | ~£730 |
| 13:06.32 | mickeyl | cool. |
| 13:06.45 | mickeyl | i have a T22 |
| 13:07.26 | Twiun | I've been told they're pretty rugged |
| 13:07.56 | mickeyl | yep - |
| 13:08.10 | mickeyl | solid thing - no plastic feel |
| 13:08.18 | mickeyl | maybe not the lightest though |
| 13:08.36 | Twiun | 2.7kg - but that's ok, I need to do some exercise |
| 13:08.40 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 13:09.01 | Twiun | I'll also need to get hold of case for it, something to carry it in |
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| 14:12.00 | mithro | beep |
| 14:12.05 | mithro | how is everyone today? |
| 14:13.09 | adrift | hi |
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| 14:18.46 | mithro | adrift: was it you who worked at TrollTech? |
| 14:22.21 | adrift | nod |
| 14:22.41 | adrift | still do |
| 14:22.48 | mithro | do you work on qt/e - qtopia? |
| 14:22.53 | adrift | yep |
| 14:23.04 | adrift | and you worked for sharp-usa? |
| 14:24.14 | mithro | nope |
| 14:24.33 | adrift | Okay, just Jason did |
| 14:24.34 | mithro | i'm a student at Adelaide University and owner of a C700 :) |
| 14:24.45 | adrift | cool |
| 14:25.32 | mithro | i wanted to ask some questions about Qt/E and res changing |
| 14:25.40 | adrift | yep |
| 14:26.04 | mithro | there seem to be facitilies in the code for it, and i produced a patch which kinda works fairly well |
| 14:26.13 | mithro | but is there an "offical" way to do it? |
| 14:26.39 | adrift | well we didn't implement the res-change thing on the C700, Sharp or Lineo must have done that bit |
| 14:27.17 | mithro | yeah - i figure as much |
| 14:27.36 | adrift | What we are trying to do in newer versions of Qtopia is make it such that an app should resize to different screen sizes |
| 14:28.11 | adrift | There are some hints with AppLnk pixmap sizes |
| 14:28.33 | mithro | \fn void QLinuxFbScreen::setMode(int nw,int nh,int nd) |
| 14:28.48 | mithro | i'm using that function to do the actual resolution changing |
| 14:29.02 | mithro | and i've kinda figure out how to invalidate all surfaces + fonts |
| 14:29.10 | mithro | but it has some bugs |
| 14:29.11 | adrift | what is your goal? |
| 14:29.19 | mithro | on the fly resolution changing |
| 14:29.27 | adrift | why? |
| 14:29.45 | mithro | because 320x240 resolution has some advantages |
| 14:30.02 | mithro | ie 60fps video's + better for some games |
| 14:30.23 | adrift | do you mean on the C700 going from 640x480 -> 320x240? |
| 14:30.30 | mithro | yeah and back again |
| 14:30.35 | mithro | without restarting qtopia desktop |
| 14:30.44 | mithro | s/desktop/stuff |
| 14:30.45 | pb_ | hi mickeyl |
| 14:30.46 | adrift | I think the LCD is fixed in the pixels it has |
| 14:30.52 | mickeyl | hi pb_ - how are u? |
| 14:30.56 | mithro | adrift: nope |
| 14:31.10 | mithro | the C700 works wonderfully on the 640x480 |
| 14:31.12 | adrift | the driver on the c700 just pixel doubles so you still are writing same amout of bytes |
| 14:31.21 | mithro | and 320x240 |
| 14:31.21 | pb_ | adrift: the LCD is fixed, but you can get 320x240 by just displaying every pixel four times. |
| 14:31.36 | adrift | yeah, so what's the point? |
| 14:31.38 | mithro | adrift: actually from what i've seen you dont |
| 14:31.59 | mithro | as far as everything is concerned you have a 320x240 fb |
| 14:32.00 | pb_ | mickeyl: pretty good. you? |
| 14:32.12 | adrift | I think there are ATI linux drivers, but underneth it is doing that |
| 14:32.27 | mithro | the w100 actually has inbuilt resolution upsizing |
| 14:32.39 | mithro | (it's in there "features" list) |
| 14:32.44 | adrift | okay |
| 14:33.11 | pb_ | mithro: yep, that's right. |
| 14:33.16 | mithro | plus there are some times when having a 320x240 is nice - like some stupid apps which havn't be updated |
| 14:33.31 | mickeyl | pb_: just returned from vacation with a slight bit of a fever - catched a cold in the plane i suppose - nothing serious though |
| 14:33.43 | mickeyl | pb_: you didn't have a chance to try an image on c7x0 yet or did you? |
| 14:33.48 | pb_ | mickeyl: let's hope SARS isn't spreading to germany :-) |
| 14:33.52 | mithro | so i just kinda poking it a bit |
| 14:34.00 | adrift | is really the right solution to cripple that beautiful display and change res? |
| 14:34.11 | pb_ | mickeyl: no, not yet, been flat out with other stuff the past couple of weeks. |
| 14:34.14 | pb_ | mickeyl: I do have a SIMpad now, though. |
| 14:34.15 | mithro | actually it still looks brillent at 320x240 |
| 14:34.29 | mithro | i have no idea why, but it's still killer sharp |
| 14:34.48 | mickeyl | pb_: aah nice :) flashed OpenSIMpad yet? |
| 14:34.55 | adrift | imho I was very disappointed with the speed of the shipped c700 |
| 14:35.09 | mithro | adrift: yeah the speed was a bit slow |
| 14:35.19 | adrift | bit? |
| 14:35.19 | pb_ | mickeyl: nope, haven't even taken it out of the box yet. It's at my office. I'll set it up and reflash on Tuesday probably (public holiday here on Monday) |
| 14:35.31 | mithro | but i was on a 103 SH3 with Pocket PC on it so i started from a slow platform :) |
| 14:36.09 | mickeyl | pb_: you might wait until next week - we are preparing a new image with Opie 1.0 and a few core bugfixes |
| 14:36.13 | mithro | got an average of 40fps in ScummVM and about 35fps for gameboy games |
| 14:36.20 | pb_ | mickeyl: righto, cool |
| 14:36.52 | pb_ | sounds like I will need to have a flashing-fest to install new OSs on all these machines :-) |
| 14:37.06 | mithro | mp3s played fine + video was good in 320x240 mode... |
| 14:37.22 | adrift | mithro: which player? |
| 14:37.26 | mithro | the PIM apps where disappointing |
| 14:37.32 | mithro | DoctorZ |
| 14:37.52 | mithro | you have to run it in compatibility mode |
| 14:37.55 | adrift | Does DoctorZ use ffmpeg? |
| 14:37.55 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 14:38.10 | mithro | dunno but it has XScale optimizations :) |
| 14:38.32 | adrift | yeah, that's why I asked, if it is ffmpeg based, source for that should be available |
| 14:38.36 | mithro | i got about 45fps with a 200mb Stargate on Compact Flash |
| 14:38.45 | adrift | cool |
| 14:38.51 | mithro | adrift: it's a commercial app |
| 14:39.01 | adrift | ffmpeg is LGPL |
| 14:39.10 | mithro | it sooooo clear |
| 14:39.17 | mithro | to bad it's only 4 inchs |
| 14:39.28 | mithro | a TV with that type of screen would blow my mind :) |
| 14:39.35 | adrift | but modifications of the libraries in ffmpeg need to be released |
| 14:40.58 | mithro | i have no idea go to there site and find out :) |
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| 14:44.06 | mithro | my patch works very well, except i can't get the applications which are already started to redraw their surfaces with the new fonts |
| 14:45.57 | adrift | At Handango it says: For MS-MPEG4 video decoding, Dr.Z Video Player integrates ffmpeg's libavcodec library. |
| 14:46.22 | adrift | Standard MPEG4 video and MPEG Layer 3 audio decodings are powered by Intel(R) Integrated Performance Primitives -Intel(R) IPP |
| 14:46.55 | adrift | But the libavcodec source for ffmpeg does not have IPP optimizations that I am aware of |
| 14:48.00 | mithro | hrm - well it worked so i didn't ask any questions :) |
| 14:50.26 | adrift | It looks like the DrZ player is by PalmPalm, I should be able to find out more. I'll also ask on the ffmpeg mailing list next week |
| 14:55.40 | mithro | hrm i having trouble finding there site again |
| 14:56.40 | adrift | most of the info was at handango.com -> linux, then most popular download |
| 14:57.14 | adrift | the company is palmpalm.com but that site doesn't mention it |
| 14:57.44 | mithro | http://drzvideo.palmpalm.com/ |
| 14:58.04 | adrift | cool |
| 14:59.47 | adrift | maybe there are two decoders for MS-MPEG4 and MPEG4. The MS-MPEG4 is libavcodec based and the IPP optimizaed one is there own |
| 15:01.14 | adrift | I wonder if Qtopiadesktop should have a virtualdub plugin or something to scale mpegs when you sync them to the pda |
| 15:02.21 | mithro | adrift: so you wouldn't happen to know a generic way to get applications to redraw all the surfaces with the new fonts? |
| 15:02.54 | adrift | styleChanged() ?? |
| 15:03.04 | mithro | hrm... that might work |
| 15:03.07 | adrift | might be a system wide QCop |
| 15:03.23 | adrift | qcop "QPE/System" "styleChanged" |
| 15:03.30 | adrift | qcop "QPE/System" "styleChanged()" |
| 15:04.01 | adrift | it would get handled in qpeapplication.cpp |
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| 15:08.42 | adrift | wait a sec |
| 15:08.44 | mithro | i think i already tried that - but that might have been before i got the gfx invalidation bit working |
| 15:09.01 | adrift | I just checked and the qcop is called "applyStyle" |
| 15:09.31 | adrift | qcop "QPE/System" "applyStyle()" |
| 15:09.39 | mithro | okay |
| 15:09.54 | Twiun | hrmph... now to find some examples on polygon filling algorithms... |
| 15:09.57 | mithro | these changes arn't actually in Qt/E they are in Opie |
| 15:11.00 | adrift | mithro: I'm looking at the Qtopia1.7 code. It gets handled in src/libraries/qtopia/qpeapplication.cpp |
| 15:12.14 | Twiun | kergoth: yo |
| 15:12.14 | adrift | mithro: the applyStyle() function in there reads in the qpe.conf file and will read in the FontSize setting |
| 15:12.25 | Twiun | kergoth: how's your fixedpt lib going? |
| 15:12.36 | kergoth | hey mithro, what ya workin on? |
| 15:12.56 | kergoth | Twiun: works pretty well. got negative scaling behaving |
| 15:13.07 | mewyn | hey kergoth |
| 15:13.22 | mickeyl | hi kergoth |
| 15:13.22 | mithro | kergoth: importing gaim into buildroot |
| 15:13.30 | kergoth | Twiun: so you can do 50000 * -50000.5 for example, which would normally not fit in an int |
| 15:13.33 | kergoth | mithro: ah, nice. |
| 15:13.36 | mithro | then i'm going to work a bit more on my res changing stuff |
| 15:13.37 | kergoth | hey mewyn, mithro |
| 15:13.37 | kergoth | er |
| 15:13.40 | kergoth | s/mithro/mickeyl/ |
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| 15:14.11 | Twiun | kergoth: nice going |
| 15:14.22 | kergoth | ugh, still sick |
| 15:14.53 | mithro | kergoth: i had an idea - could we map the kana and zahan keys to ctrl and alt? |
| 15:15.06 | kergoth | of course |
| 15:15.24 | kergoth | alter the keymap and use loadkeys to pull it in |
| 15:15.57 | mithro | i thought loadkeys didn't work yet |
| 15:16.22 | kergoth | of course it does. |
| 15:16.36 | mithro | gb2 was working on something to make it work in qtopia/opie |
| 15:16.46 | kergoth | no, no, no |
| 15:16.54 | kergoth | loadkeys is the ability to change the kernel keymap at runtime |
| 15:17.05 | kergoth | he's fixing a bug i left in the qt/e keyboard handler that makes qt obey the kernel keymap |
| 15:17.15 | kergoth | regardless of whther you loaded it now at runtime or at compiletime |
| 15:17.55 | mithro | so qt/e will obey the loadkeys keymap? |
| 15:18.08 | kergoth | qt/e obeys the kernel keymap. |
| 15:18.09 | kergoth | period. |
| 15:18.18 | kergoth | loadkeys is just a way of changing that map at runtime. |
| 15:18.46 | mithro | okay |
| 15:18.54 | mithro | so gb2 must have been confused |
| 15:19.25 | mithro | so now how do i create a keymap :) i know the SL_ code of the keys and i've looked into corgi_keymap.map |
| 15:19.28 | kergoth | depends on when you talked to him. last time i talked to him about it he had a clear understanding of the bug and how to fix it |
| 15:19.45 | kergoth | mithro: man keymaps |
| 15:19.50 | mithro | yesterday or the day before i think :) |
| 15:21.12 | mithro | do we have a copy of dumpkeys/loadkeys for the Z in buildroot? |
| 15:27.25 | kergoth | mithro: console-tools is what provides them, and thats in buildroot, eys |
| 15:27.29 | kergoth | yes rather |
| 15:29.53 | mithro | coolies |
| 15:30.47 | mithro | kergoth: do you know if the SL_ * defines map to the actually keycodes on the lefthand side of the keymap? |
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| 15:34.34 | mithro | it appears they do... |
| 15:42.55 | treke|ho1e | cool. heard back from demo |
| 15:44.01 | treke|ho1e | he's still working on the axim |
| 15:44.13 | mickeyl | progress? |
| 15:44.38 | treke|ho1e | nope |
| 15:44.56 | treke|ho1e | he's been taking a vacation |
| 15:46.04 | treke|ho1e | ~brando |
| 15:46.09 | | hmm... brando is sells/exports the Sharp Zaurus and other electronics http://shop.brando.com.hk/ or mailto:brando@brando.com.hk. C700 $500, C750 $525, C760 $610 USD, (and $45 shipping via fedex) use email for zaurus orders, or plus shipping, or no warranty and japanese sortware. |
| 15:46.43 | treke|ho1e | anyone ordered through him yet? |
| 15:48.24 | pb_ | treke|ho1e: yeah, I bought my c750 from brando |
| 15:48.41 | treke|ho1e | 525 is a hell of a deal |
| 15:49.12 | pb_ | yeah |
| 15:52.59 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 15:53.31 | mithro | sorry it was actually $545 |
| 15:53.39 | mickeyl | i paid 630 EUR for my C750... but that was in germany |
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| 15:54.30 | mickeyl | * 1.16 of course (because of damn german tax) |
| 16:02.46 | mithro | kergoth: know where i could get a list of keymap ksyms? |
| 16:05.54 | mewyn | kergoth: next year you should try to go and do the linux pda seminar on the geek cruise |
| 16:07.05 | kergoth | mithro: fyi, http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=1080, http://www.ibiblio.org/mdw/HOWTO/Keyboard-and-Console-HOWTO.html |
| 16:07.26 | mithro | kergoth: thanks |
| 16:07.38 | mithro | i found an older version of that HOWTO |
| 16:07.43 | kergoth | np. there are some useful links like that that help one understand how the keyboard handling works in general |
| 16:08.45 | kergoth | the bug gb2 is trying to fix is that we need a new table to translate from keysyms to qt keycodes, rather than keycodes (pre-keymap) to qt keycodes |
| 16:09.02 | kergoth | which is why things like right shift dont work, since that only becomes shift after the map is applied |
| 16:10.21 | mithro | ahh okay... |
| 16:10.40 | mithro | hrm that still doesn't have a list of valid "keysyms" used on the right hand side |
| 16:11.42 | kergoth | hmm, not sure where that would be |
| 16:12.52 | mithro | yeah - because i dont seem to think "Home/End/Page Up/Down" don't appear in my local keymap - so i'm assuming that they have a diffrent name |
| 16:14.39 | kergoth | mithro: check the console-tools source |
| 16:14.57 | kergoth | mithro: even for the compiled in maps it calls loadkeys --mktable to generate something the kernel can use |
| 16:15.04 | kergoth | so the syms wont be in kernel space |
| 16:15.19 | kergoth | brb |
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| 16:19.30 | mithro_ | okay - it's a bad idea to run showkeys from X |
| 16:20.57 | mithro_ | found the syms for pageup/down |
| 16:28.52 | treke|ho1e | man nwn is such a time waster |
| 16:31.14 | Twiun | treke|ho1e: haven't you finished the original yet? |
| 16:31.22 | treke|ho1e | Twiun: nope |
| 16:31.22 | Twiun | treke|ho1e: or is it all those side quests? |
| 16:31.49 | treke|ho1e | Twiun: i uninstalled it a few months ago and though it erased my save games |
| 16:31.51 | Twiun | treke|ho1e: I personally got bored of the hack 'n' fetch stuff |
| 16:31.53 | mithro_ | okay now to load this keymap and see if it works |
| 16:31.55 | treke|ho1e | so I just reinstlled it last week |
| 16:32.18 | treke|ho1e | Twiun: hoping it improves, the first level was a bit boring |
| 16:33.31 | Twiun | treke|ho1e: they get progressively shorter |
| 16:33.40 | Twiun | treke|ho1e: the fourth was astonishingly short |
| 16:33.45 | treke|ho1e | hehe |
| 16:34.20 | Twiun | treke|ho1e: although apparently you want to reach level 14+ before getting to the end |
| 16:36.48 | mithro_ | kergoth: you still about? |
| 16:58.05 | Twiun | he must be pretty ill not to have pounced on anyone in #zaurus yet |
| 16:59.42 | kergoth | i'm not in #zaurus |
| 16:59.43 | kergoth | heh |
| 16:59.46 | kergoth | mithro_: whats up? |
| 16:59.52 | kergoth | i'll be around for a few minutes anyway |
| 16:59.52 | mithro_ | well i got the keymap |
| 16:59.58 | mithro_ | it works nicely in the console |
| 17:00.05 | mithro_ | but not workies in Opie |
| 17:00.10 | kergoth | thats expected. |
| 17:00.16 | kergoth | the bug i mentioned that gb2 is trying to fix. |
| 17:00.28 | mithro_ | okay :) |
| 17:00.54 | mithro_ | so opie doesn't dynamicly use the kernel's keymap? |
| 17:00.57 | kergoth | feel free to take a look yourself. src/kernel/qkeyboard_qws.cpp, the TODO list shows what needs doing in comments at the top of the file |
| 17:01.00 | kergoth | .. |
| 17:01.02 | kergoth | yes, it does |
| 17:01.05 | kergoth | how many times do i need to explain this? |
| 17:01.07 | mithro_ | ?? |
| 17:01.27 | kergoth | its obtaining the proper unicode value from the kernel keymap, but the translation to a qt keycode value is happening pre-map, not post |
| 17:01.31 | kergoth | its not complete. |
| 17:01.41 | kergoth | the todo shows the items left to finish it |
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| 17:02.31 | kergoth | feel free to complete it. the main item is creating a table to translate keysyms to qt keycodes |
| 17:02.41 | kergoth | currently its kenrel keycodes, not keysyms, to qt keycodes |
| 17:03.04 | mithro_ | so loadkeys has no effect to opie - as i first thought? |
| 17:04.04 | mithro_ | okay so where can i find a list of qt keycodes :) |
| 17:05.52 | mithro_ | just create a table like this one -> static const QWSServer::KeyMap keyM[] = { only with keysyms on the other side? |
| 17:06.03 | kergoth | other side? |
| 17:06.34 | mithro_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:06.38 | kergoth | we need a table to translate from keysyms to qt keycodes. so table[keysym] = qtkeycode; |
| 17:06.51 | mithro_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:06.56 | kergoth | no. |
| 17:06.59 | kergoth | what is 00? |
| 17:07.15 | kergoth | its table[0] = Qt::KeyForKeySymZero |
| 17:07.44 | mithro_ | ahh okay |
| 17:07.59 | mithro_ | i could do that fairly easily... |
| 17:08.03 | kergoth | yep |
| 17:08.07 | kergoth | its not hard, just drudge work |
| 17:08.13 | kergoth | taking the time to create the table |
| 17:08.43 | mithro_ | well i'm okay to do drudge work :) |
| 17:09.08 | kergoth | great. having that will fix opie keyboard issues on .. well all our devices, just about. |
| 17:09.39 | mithro_ | okay - i'll start on it now :) |
| 17:10.02 | mithro_ | now to find out a reference for that table :) |
| 17:11.04 | mithro_ | X normally does this for you I'm assuming... |
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| 17:11.38 | mithro_ | that keyboard pagee is intresting |
| 17:15.12 | kergoth | mithro_: feel free to read the keyboard handling bits in kdrive in the X sources |
| 17:15.21 | kergoth | mithro_: it loads the kernel keymap as well |
| 17:15.38 | mithro_ | okay i'll look at it |
| 17:15.55 | kergoth | helps get an understanding of how it works, obviously doesnt help create that qt specific table :) |
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| 17:16.50 | mithro_ | if i can get a list for the table[keysym] side i can create the QT side fairly easy |
| 17:17.36 | kergoth | yeah, you still need your list of keysyms |
| 17:17.39 | kergoth | hmm |
| 17:18.24 | mithro_ | ie i need to know that keycode 0 == Number 0 etc |
| 17:19.15 | kergoth | you have the keyboard handler in front of you, are we only using ksyms that are of type KT_LETTER? |
| 17:19.19 | kergoth | or what? |
| 17:19.30 | kergoth | as you can see in the LJ article, half the word is type, the other half is value |
| 17:19.39 | kergoth | so the question is, how do we index the translation table to qt keycodes |
| 17:19.50 | kergoth | by just the value, or by the keysym proper? |
| 17:20.17 | kergoth | we coudl do it the way the kernel does, which has a table of function pointers to handle a given type of key |
| 17:20.23 | kergoth | which may do something special |
| 17:21.39 | mithro_ | yeah i suppose... |
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| 17:21.58 | kergoth | i guess it depends on whether we _can_ handle certain types of mapped keys in qt |
| 17:22.09 | kergoth | like, is there even a way to map a key to a string the way you can in kernel? |
| 17:22.17 | kergoth | if not, there's no point in handling those keysyms |
| 17:23.56 | mithro_ | most of the time key==string make no sense |
| 17:24.12 | kergoth | F keys are the only real use of that, iirc |
| 17:24.14 | mithro_ | althought it is used for special keys like home etc |
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| 17:24.35 | kergoth | well, we want qt/e to work on all devices, so we cant make the assumption that the device wont have those keyhs |
| 17:24.38 | kergoth | s/hs/s/ |
| 17:24.58 | kergoth | bbl, need to run some errands |
| 17:25.08 | mithro_ | yeah but the Home should most proberly be mapped to a Qt::Home key |
| 17:25.49 | mithro_ | not to a string |
| 17:26.00 | kergoth`bbl | yeah, there isnt always a one to one mapping, so .. dunno. maybe we need a set of function pointers, with the default handler for a given type being the one that indexes into keytable[type][value] |
| 17:26.07 | kergoth`bbl | k bbl |
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| 17:53.04 | NeoTron | kergoth`bbl: yo. We already found a house in which I'll be living w/o furniture for a month |
| 17:54.17 | Twiun | using your boxes as temp furniture? |
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| 18:13.13 | treke|ho1e | mickeyl: welcome back |
| 18:13.24 | mickeyl | thanks treke |
| 18:14.07 | Twiun | anyone ever implemented a polygon filling algo? |
| 18:14.59 | treke|ho1e | mickeyl: Is the c750 at all usable out doors? I've seen mixed answers on that question :) |
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| 18:15.53 | mickeyl | treke: no idea - never tried that... mine is unusable atm, but i will report as soon as i have revived it |
| 18:16.07 | treke|ho1e | hehe. what did you do to it? |
| 18:16.33 | mickeyl | treke: well... just flashed our experimental shepherd image... which doesn't resume after suspend |
| 18:16.40 | treke|ho1e | ah |
| 18:16.58 | mickeyl | treke: and apparantly I'm unable to compile a working image for it :( |
| 18:17.05 | mickeyl | treke: so i'm depending on kergoths images |
| 18:17.52 | treke|ho1e | that seems like the last sticking point for me |
| 18:18.44 | mickeyl | yah... drives me crazy but i can't find out why my image halts after "Booting... please wait" |
| 18:19.03 | treke|ho1e | sounds like it's running out of memory |
| 18:19.08 | mickeyl | and i didn't get that sucker to emit _any_ kernel debug messages. neither on serial no on console |
| 18:19.10 | treke|ho1e | you have a ram disk configured? |
| 18:19.28 | mickeyl | no idea - 32/32 config iirc |
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| 18:28.22 | treke|ho1e | also looks like I can use my old palm Vx styluses with it |
| 18:28.24 | treke|ho1e | rocking :P |
| 18:29.15 | mickeyl | :) |
| 18:30.00 | treke|ho1e | I wont give up on oe-ipaq though. I still have friends who use it :p |
| 18:30.26 | mickeyl | treke: I use it |
| 18:30.56 | mickeyl | treke: what would be necessary to extend oe-ipaq to the other familiar-supported ipaqs? |
| 18:31.20 | treke|ho1e | mickeyl: Not a whole lot. Most of the work is done on my hard drive, but I need to fix a buildroot bug first |
| 18:31.35 | mickeyl | treke: ah great |
| 18:31.40 | treke|ho1e | I havent gotten a kernel for the pxa ipaqs to compile with gcc2 |
| 18:32.24 | treke|ho1e | buildroot no longer adds the path to your toolchain to gcc calls, so I cant compile a gcc3 kernel with a gcc2 userlans |
| 18:32.35 | treke|ho1e | and of course, I cant test it since I dont have a pxa ipaq |
| 18:38.19 | mickeyl | treke: nice. i pretty much have given up on shepherd right now... because of frustration |
| 18:38.35 | mickeyl | treke: maybe you can shed more light on the problems :) |
| 18:38.46 | treke|ho1e | hehe |
| 18:39.03 | treke|ho1e | thats good to hear right after sending an email to brando :p |
| 18:39.09 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 18:39.18 | mickeyl | well... i'm sure it is a minimal thing but i can't find it. |
| 18:39.21 | treke|ho1e | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:39.22 | treke|ho1e | yeah |
| 18:39.23 | mickeyl | and this is killing me |
| 18:39.52 | mickeyl | also OZ on collie is stalled which is also a bit frustrating... |
| 18:41.46 | treke|ho1e | hehe |
| 18:43.25 | mickeyl | I wonder how large the user community of OZ really is... and where the developers amongst the community are |
| 18:45.11 | mickeyl | dip? |
| 18:45.58 | treke|ho1e | the entire zaurus community has taken a dip lately |
| 18:46.09 | treke|ho1e | people have been switching away |
| 18:49.05 | mickeyl | which is why attracting more people to oe-ipaq seems to be a good thing (TM ) :) |
| 18:49.37 | mickeyl | OpenSIMpad progresses nice but then again this is also for a retired device |
| 18:51.49 | mickeyl | but then again it might be just the summer... |
| 18:52.00 | mickeyl | in germany we call this a "Sommerloch" |
| 18:59.36 | pb_ | hi kergoth |
| 19:19.36 | Twiun | hey pb_ |
| 19:19.43 | pb_ | hi Twiun |
| 19:21.01 | Twiun | just rediscovered the Hugo Elias graphics pages - gotta keep that treasure bookmarked |
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| 19:30.01 | NeoTron | Twiun: I have no boxes or anything since alas, that is not being moved till october |
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| 19:50.58 | nightfire | is it safe/possible to use jffs2 on mmc? |
| 19:51.42 | mickeyl | not possible |
| 19:52.00 | nightfire | hmm.. is it safe to use ext2 on that? |
| 19:52.03 | mickeyl | ya |
| 19:52.06 | nightfire | i guess the blocks go bad pretty frequently.. |
| 19:52.21 | mickeyl | didn't see one yet |
| 19:52.26 | nightfire | i've got a few :/ |
| 19:52.40 | mickeyl | get another brand ;) |
| 19:52.43 | nightfire | it's a lexar! |
| 19:52.50 | nightfire | damnit |
| 19:53.31 | nightfire | wonder if ext2/reiserfs/xfs does bad block remapping :/ |
| 19:55.30 | treke|ho1e | it can |
| 19:56.13 | nightfire | ext2? |
| 19:57.23 | nightfire | god sd is slow. |
| 19:58.24 | treke|ho1e | poor zaurus users with only a single cf slot |
| 19:59.00 | nightfire | indeed. :( |
| 19:59.25 | kergoth | mickeyl|tv: its possible, but pointless and possibly harmful |
| 19:59.45 | kergoth | blkmtd driver allows you to run jffs2 on a block device |
| 20:00.08 | treke|ho1e | whole lot less explaining why you dont want to do it |
| 20:00.40 | kergoth | easier, but if i were them i'd want to know the reality |
| 20:00.41 | kergoth | heh |
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| 20:02.09 | W8TVI | the zaurus SD slot is fast enough for me |
| 20:02.19 | W8TVI | I can play mp3s off it |
| 20:02.45 | treke|ho1e | I just hope it is faster than the ipaqs |
| 20:02.50 | treke|ho1e | thazat thing is fricken slow |
| 20:05.24 | nightfire | seems to be about 750k/sec. |
| 20:05.55 | treke|ho1e | nightfire: which device? |
| 20:06.07 | nightfire | lexar 256M sd |
| 20:06.13 | treke|ho1e | no. what type of zaurus |
| 20:06.15 | nightfire | heh |
| 20:06.16 | nightfire | c760 |
| 20:06.20 | treke|ho1e | fuck yeah |
| 20:06.29 | nightfire | running debian now :P |
| 20:06.29 | treke|ho1e | ipaq topped out at aound 80k |
| 20:06.34 | nightfire | hah. |
| 20:07.02 | nightfire | i really like this d-link 802.11 card |
| 20:07.13 | nightfire | streaming radiostorm.com... now i have a $1500 walkman |
| 20:07.45 | treke|ho1e | I've got a crapy wcf12 |
| 20:07.52 | nightfire | wcf12? |
| 20:08.02 | treke|ho1e | wyes. linksys |
| 20:08.06 | nightfire | :( |
| 20:08.16 | nightfire | i can't believe the battery life on this thing |
| 20:08.32 | nightfire | streaming mp3's over 802.11, with an SD card, screen at 0x177, and i still get about 5 hours |
| 20:09.17 | treke|ho1e | nightfire: Thinking of ordering one on monday. Still torn on 750 or 760, leaning towards the 60 though |
| 20:09.25 | nightfire | god, get the 760. |
| 20:09.32 | nightfire | i mean for an extra hundred bucks it's so worth it. |
| 20:09.37 | nightfire | and the white screen looks nicer too :) |
| 20:09.50 | treke|ho1e | yeah the black looks like ass in all the pictures |
| 20:09.55 | nightfire | mhmm |
| 20:11.56 | kergoth | looks like ass in person too. i dunno what they were thinking with the two tone |
| 20:12.09 | nightfire | well the white/silver isn't *that* bad |
| 20:12.25 | nightfire | but i bet it'll go offwhite in a few years :( |
| 20:13.36 | nightfire | does the compression bit actually work on an ext2 filesystem/ |
| 20:13.41 | nightfire | ? |
| 20:15.59 | kergoth | 'compression bit'? |
| 20:16.10 | nightfire | chattr +c |
| 20:19.21 | treke|ho1e | I dont think it does what you think it does |
| 20:19.37 | nightfire | isn't it on-the-fly compression? |
| 20:20.35 | nightfire | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:20.35 | nightfire | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:20.35 | nightfire | <PROTECTED> |
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| 20:21.22 | nightfire | i've never actually /seen/ it do anything though :) |
| 20:22.26 | treke|ho1e | ah but it is transparent |
| 20:22.45 | treke|ho1e | so yo wont do anything and there is no need to actually implement compression |
| 20:22.52 | nightfire | well i've never actually seen my disk space go up after +c'ing a large directory |
| 20:23.16 | nightfire | i'm just trying to figure out how to get jffs's inline compression on my mmc without using jffs :) |
| 20:23.18 | treke|ho1e | files are decompressed before the kernel calculates disk space :p |
| 20:23.29 | nightfire | that doesn't make sense.. |
| 20:23.34 | nightfire | hehe |
| 20:23.49 | treke|ho1e | I'm using the chewbacca defense |
| 20:23.59 | nightfire | trekinformationminister? |
| 20:24.03 | nightfire | +E |
| 20:24.54 | nightfire | http://www.anerispress.com/wltsim/ |
| 20:24.57 | nightfire | that's brilliant. |
| 20:28.06 | nightfire | jesus christ badblocks is thorough |
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| 21:25.46 | nightfire | 2.4.21 run on corgi/shepherd yet? |
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| 23:05.42 | noda | Moo! |
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| 23:19.10 | nightfire | fuck. |
| 23:19.25 | nightfire | i'm getting a ton of errors on heavy I/O to this sd card |
| 23:19.39 | nightfire | i mapped out the bad blocks and passed them to mke2fs |
| 23:19.48 | nightfire | jesus christ man |
| 23:22.11 | NeoTron | kergoth: I heard that cricket season is coming to here |
| 23:23.09 | nightfire | CONFIG_FS_SYNC=y |
| 23:23.19 | nightfire | is that something sharp added? |
| 23:24.04 | noda | It's not in my 2.4.21 .config... |
| 23:24.30 | nightfire | it seems to make reference to major 60 block devices in the code i've looked at |
| 23:24.31 | nightfire | which is mmc |
| 23:24.37 | nightfire | so maybe that's my problem... i had turned it off |
| 23:24.52 | noda | nightfire: There's an option in /etc/fstab for mounting your SD card synced. I think it's "sync"... try turning it off maybe? |
| 23:24.57 | nightfire | well |
| 23:25.03 | noda | Or on if it's not on? :) |
| 23:25.09 | nightfire | i think this is unrelated |
| 23:25.14 | nightfire | i tried with both though, at the fs level |
| 23:25.19 | noda | Heh, cool :) |
| 23:25.39 | nightfire | i think the sync fs option just means that system calls won't return until they've been flushed to disk |
| 23:25.40 | noda | 'cuz if sync is off, there's no such thing as "heavy I/O", it's either full-speed or nothing, I thought. |
| 23:25.47 | noda | Yep |
| 23:26.02 | nightfire | well it looks like it's only under heavy file access, if that makes sense |
| 23:26.10 | nightfire | like, writing a 128M file is no problem |
| 23:26.15 | noda | Strange. What kernel? I'd blame the card. |
| 23:26.17 | nightfire | writing 10,000 files is where it bombs |
| 23:26.21 | nightfire | 2.4.18 |
| 23:26.22 | nightfire | :/ |
| 23:26.25 | nightfire | on a c7x0 |
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| 23:26.37 | noda | Hrm. Do you have any others to test with? :) |
| 23:26.43 | nightfire | but like, i ran a very thorough badblock check with no problems (except 4 bad blocks) |
| 23:26.49 | nightfire | not yet :( |
| 23:26.56 | noda | I've been using 2.4.6 on my SD card for ages, no problems. |
| 23:27.03 | noda | (SL5500) |
| 23:27.09 | nightfire | yeah, i think it was turning off that option that broke it :P |
| 23:27.18 | nightfire | i'll find out in a reboot :) |
| 23:27.23 | noda | The kernel option? Oh good :) |
| 23:27.32 | noda | What's the help say about it? :) |
| 23:27.36 | nightfire | NOTHING |
| 23:27.45 | noda | Ah, I love it when that happens. |
| 23:27.55 | nightfire | these sharp patches are attrocious |
| 23:28.07 | noda | So Sharp adds a kernel *option* which is *required* but has no documentation. Nice. |
| 23:28.21 | nightfire | well, we'll see in a minute :/ |
| 23:28.21 | noda | "FS_SYNC" - very descriptive, too :) |
| 23:28.25 | nightfire | exactly |
| 23:28.26 | nightfire | i'm like... wtf |
| 23:28.34 | nightfire | i start looking through the code, and it seems to be MMC specific |
| 23:28.44 | nightfire | and in other stuff than vfs code |
| 23:29.02 | noda | SD and MMC are very similar. If Sharp added a patch, it most likely would have cared much more about SD than MMC. |
| 23:29.03 | nightfire | but when building my kernel i saw it and said.. "sync eh... i don't like the sound of /that/" |
| 23:29.04 | nightfire | heh. |
| 23:29.11 | noda | :) |
| 23:29.18 | nightfire | well, i mean major device 60 |
| 23:29.21 | nightfire | which is SD/MMC |
| 23:29.40 | nightfire | ok.. time to play pcmcia swap... brb. :) |
| 23:29.50 | noda | Have fun :) |
| 23:30.57 | NeoTron | hrm. Can't get cable without getting digital cable? Hmm. I don't want digital cable... |
| 23:31.21 | noda | NeoTron: Sucks to be you -- here in Montreal we can get cable without even getting cable TV at all :) |
| 23:31.29 | NeoTron | heh |
| 23:31.33 | NeoTron | well, I am looking online |
| 23:31.50 | NeoTron | they WANT to sell you digital cable but I would be surprised if it's REALLY requires |
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| 23:32.00 | nightfire | oh how i long for onboard ethernet :( |
| 23:32.04 | noda | Yeah, they probably awnt to trick you :) |
| 23:32.06 | noda | nightfire: Heh |
| 23:32.07 | nightfire | noda: you're in mtl? |
| 23:32.12 | noda | nightfire: Yep, downtown :) |
| 23:32.15 | nightfire | same here |
| 23:32.15 | nightfire | haha |
| 23:32.24 | noda | Cool! Where? :) |
| 23:32.28 | nightfire | la cite |
| 23:32.31 | nightfire | "downtown" |
| 23:32.37 | NeoTron | of course, with the tivo the box isn't so annoying |
| 23:32.39 | noda | I'm across from the AMC :) |
| 23:32.42 | nightfire | ahh |
| 23:32.46 | nightfire | thought your ping was a little low |
| 23:32.47 | nightfire | ;) |
| 23:32.51 | noda | lol |
| 23:34.04 | nightfire | aight.. let's see if this new kernel does the trick. |
| 23:34.11 | noda | Good luck! |
| 23:35.21 | nightfire | man i dunno what i'd do without 802.11 |
| 23:35.26 | noda | Ditto |
| 23:35.32 | nightfire | what card do you have? |
| 23:35.43 | noda | SMC 8462 or 6482 or whatever it is :) |
| 23:35.49 | nightfire | ah |
| 23:35.54 | noda | You? |
| 23:35.59 | nightfire | the new d-link |
| 23:36.01 | nightfire | 660W |
| 23:36.04 | nightfire | pretty sweet :) |
| 23:36.11 | nightfire | but the range is downright embarassing |
| 23:36.17 | nightfire | bearly lasts to the elevator |
| 23:36.17 | nightfire | haha |
| 23:36.34 | noda | Mine is too, I lose signals in my brother's room at the other end of the apartment. |
| 23:36.43 | nightfire | must be the little antenna |
| 23:36.46 | noda | Then again, I don't have an access point, I'm just using a regular Linksys PCI card for the other end :) |
| 23:36.55 | nightfire | ah |
| 23:37.12 | nightfire | someone should make a CF 802.11 adapter with an external antenna |
| 23:37.14 | nightfire | for the truly hardcore. |
| 23:37.36 | noda | Hehehe |
| 23:40.13 | nightfire | i wonder why opie takes so damned long to rescan for "documents". |
| 23:40.28 | noda | It must be reading the entire contents or something, I find it annoying too |
| 23:40.42 | noda | Maybe to find the MIME types.... |
| 23:40.50 | nightfire | i wonder if it can be disabled |
| 23:40.50 | pb_ | maybe you have too many documents. |
| 23:40.57 | nightfire | pb_: i have nothing :) |
| 23:41.00 | noda | lol |
| 23:41.04 | pb_ | heh |
| 23:41.15 | nightfire | although i guess i do have 30gb nfs mounted |
| 23:41.15 | pb_ | nightfire: long scanning does seem unreasonable then. |
| 23:41.18 | nightfire | but it's not hitting that. |
| 23:41.43 | nightfire | ah well i'm switching to kde anyway, once i get this stupid mmc set up :) |
| 23:41.43 | pb_ | I suppose not having any documents might be causing opie to try even harder to find some, but maybe that's a little far-fetched. |
| 23:41.51 | noda | lol, I love the idea of having 30 gigabytes readily available in my pocket :) |
| 23:42.08 | noda | lol |
| 23:42.12 | pb_ | noda: just carry around a hard disk :-) |
| 23:42.17 | noda | Hehehe |
| 23:42.31 | nightfire | sweet mother of god SD is slow now. |
| 23:42.42 | noda | nightfire: Is sync off? |
| 23:42.48 | nightfire | at the FS level yeah |
| 23:42.54 | noda | Ah well, was worth a shot :) |
| 23:42.55 | nightfire | but now it's on in the kernel |
| 23:42.59 | noda | Oh, ick |
| 23:43.02 | nightfire | oh, well hey it's not crashing.. |
| 23:43.05 | nightfire | yet |
| 23:43.07 | noda | yet |
| 23:43.26 | nightfire | but i swear i could crash, reboot, and rewrite whatever i was working on once a day faster than waiting for this thing in sync mode |
| 23:45.05 | nightfire | the other day i remotely installed debian onto my PDA at home, from work, onto a loopback filesystem pointing to a file over NFS, itself running over UDP/IP/ethernet, encapsulated over USB. |
| 23:45.07 | nightfire | hehe |
| 23:45.20 | noda | Wheeee :) |
| 23:45.24 | noda | I love doing that kinda thing :) |
| 23:45.45 | nightfire | praise sco for writing the code that let me do all that. |
| 23:45.51 | noda | rofl |
| 23:46.16 | noda | I suppose you've read Bruce Peren's paper dissecting the code they've revealed? :) |
| 23:46.30 | nightfire | it was written by dennis richie wasn't it? |
| 23:46.30 | mewyn | noda: you read the esr paper? |
| 23:46.43 | noda | mewyn: Lemme check |
| 23:46.44 | mewyn | nightfire: or ken thompson |
| 23:46.47 | nightfire | ah |
| 23:46.52 | nightfire | this whole thing reminds me of my personal lawsuit |
| 23:46.58 | mewyn | ? |
| 23:46.59 | nightfire | it reaks of horseshit |
| 23:47.05 | nightfire | well i got sued for quitting a company |
| 23:47.13 | nightfire | and while it never made it to court, it still cost me $30k in legal fees :( |
| 23:47.16 | nightfire | so "they won". |
| 23:47.49 | noda | mewyn: Bruce Perens: http://www.perens.com/SCO/SCOSlideShow.html |
| 23:48.00 | noda | Really quite funny :) |
| 23:49.03 | mewyn | seen it |
| 23:49.13 | mewyn | i keep up very well on this |
| 23:49.31 | noda | Ditto - if SCO wins... aargh. |
| 23:49.39 | noda | I'd say it's impossible, but they're in the States. Anything's possible. |
| 23:49.46 | mewyn | heh\ |
| 23:49.50 | nightfire | i can just imagine those moron sharp "engineers" discussing it right now... "So we've got a race condition somewhere in our SD driver... but we wrote a little workaround that just makes all file access synchronous." |
| 23:49.51 | mewyn | nah |
| 23:49.55 | mewyn | IBM has more money |
| 23:50.00 | mewyn | and they are wrong |
| 23:50.02 | noda | nightfire: rofl |
| 23:50.04 | mewyn | that's a loosing combination |
| 23:50.23 | noda | mewyn: I suppose. Though I don't think the right/wrong will really factor in, it'll just save them some money. |
| 23:50.50 | mewyn | nightfire: isn't the SD made by lineo? |
| 23:51.06 | nightfire | is it? :) |
| 23:51.13 | noda | I think so. Lineo's dead now though. |
| 23:51.19 | nightfire | good.. bastards. |
| 23:51.21 | nightfire | :) |
| 23:51.22 | pb_ | mewyn: no doubt there were plenty of morons at lineo also. |
| 23:51.32 | mewyn | wasn't lineo related to caldera somehow? |
| 23:51.35 | mewyn | or canopy |
| 23:51.36 | noda | There's an open-source driver on handhelds.org. It's not quite ready to be used though. |
| 23:51.56 | nightfire | backported to 2.4.18? |
| 23:52.02 | pb_ | seems to be working OK with the latest round of patches. someone just needs to write a driver for the sharp asic. |
| 23:52.08 | noda | mewyn: They were bought by Metrowerks. |
| 23:52.29 | noda | nightfire: Dunno, but why stick with 2.4.18 if openembedded's kernel will support your pda? :) |
| 23:52.31 | andersee | mewyn: both lineo and caldera Intl were branched out of Caldera Inc. |
| 23:52.36 | nightfire | chris is working on the SD/sharp code isn't he? |
| 23:52.44 | mewyn | andersee: ah. right |
| 23:52.52 | nightfire | noda: well, i'm runnign OE's kernel |
| 23:52.54 | andersee | mewyn: Caldera Inc. was dissolved when it won the antitrust lawsuit vs MS |
| 23:52.58 | nightfire | it's 2.4.18 for the c7x0 |
| 23:53.04 | noda | And Caldera Intl is now the SCO group? |
| 23:53.15 | andersee | yep |
| 23:53.16 | noda | nightfire: Well then, there you go. Ask kergoth, he's in charge of that I think :) |
| 23:53.39 | mewyn | noda: correct |
| 23:53.39 | nightfire | noda: the less i bug him the faster he'll finish.. hopefully :P |
| 23:53.52 | nightfire | this channel must feel like unix support to him sometimes. |
| 23:53.53 | noda | nightfire: lol, who told you *that*? :P |
| 23:53.59 | nightfire | hehe |
| 23:54.02 | noda | nightfire: Nah, that's #openzaurus :) |
| 23:54.12 | nightfire | well people still ask questions here.. |
| 23:54.17 | noda | EVERYBODY knows the MORE you bug someone the faster he'll finish! :) |
| 23:54.25 | mewyn | lol |
| 23:54.26 | nightfire | hehe |
| 23:54.31 | nightfire | my boss knows that. |
| 23:55.45 | nightfire | where's thie sd/mmc project @ handhelds.org? |
| 23:56.00 | noda | No clue. I just pick up rumours on here and ICQ |
| 23:56.04 | nightfire | ah |
| 23:56.21 | mewyn | i still wanna know what TI is doing |
| 23:56.24 | mewyn | :) |
| 23:56.32 | noda | kergoth's their buildmonkey :) |
| 23:56.37 | mewyn | i know |
| 23:56.45 | mewyn | but he won't say anything! |
| 23:56.52 | pb_ | nightfire: the sd code at handhelds.org is just part of the kernel |
| 23:56.56 | TheMasterMind1 | noda: sup |
| 23:57.06 | nightfire | ah |
| 23:57.14 | noda | TheMasterMind1: heya, long time :) |
| 23:57.28 | TheMasterMind1 | whats new? |
| 23:57.37 | nightfire | has anyone tried 2.4.21 on corgi/husky/shepherd? |
| 23:57.45 | noda | School starts next week, and I've got a 4-day weekend. Every weekend. |
| 23:57.53 | TheMasterMind1 | nice |
| 23:57.57 | NeoTron | mewyn: it's called NDA |
| 23:58.02 | noda | Hell yeah. I've never had 4-day weekends. |
| 23:58.26 | noda | In all my life... |
| 23:58.36 | TheMasterMind1 | heh |
| 23:58.42 | TheMasterMind1 | i'm using classes in my php sites now |
| 23:58.45 | noda | I took a 1-week vacation too. Though I haven't had two weeks off anything in years. |
| 23:58.47 | TheMasterMind1 | you made me go over to the dark side |
| 23:58.48 | mewyn | NeoTron: i know :) |
| 23:58.58 | mewyn | i'm just impatient |
| 23:59.04 | noda | TheMasterMind1: Great! Wanna go over to the REAL dark side? Make the new download page on oz.org :) |
| 23:59.21 | mewyn | i wouldn't bug someone if i knew it would crack them |