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| 00:46.01 | Nechckn | Legorol At a guess, because bid is less/equal to buyout, so it automatically ensures that both prices are above that amount, no? |
| 00:47.44 | Legorol | Nechckn: you mean to ensure that both bid and buyout are above the deposit cost? That doesn't make sense, there are items that are worth less than the deposit, yet nothing wrong with listing them (since you get the deposit back). |
| 00:48.17 | Legorol | Besides, why would this only apply to the bid but not the buyout? |
| 00:49.25 | Nechckn | As to the BeanCounter thought - that was something Kandoko went round-about trying to figure how to best represent the cash flow and, based upon feedback at the time, was how it got implemented. You can make a ticket with your suggestion to move it 'round, in Jira, though. |
| 00:50.04 | Nechckn | Legorol Bid is normally just subtracted from buyout, so that way, it keeps it from going below. That is when it is auto-suggested. |
| 00:50.41 | Nechckn | It could just be a typo - do not have game or code here, however - thought it was the AH fee, not just the deposit. |
| 00:51.19 | Legorol | In Beancounter: Net = Buyout (or Bid) + Deposit - Fee, and I don't think it's a typo, it's always been like this. |
| 00:51.26 | Legorol | So I assume there was a reason for it. |
| 00:51.38 | Nechckn | No, sorry - that was in regard to Appraiser, not BCNT. |
| 00:52.25 | Legorol | ahok. No the setting I'm talking about "Subtract deposit cost" does really only subtract the depo cost, nothing to do with the fee. And only from the Bid. |
| 00:53.11 | Legorol | So you get the weird situation that if you set the bid markdown to 0%, and list an item with value 10g and 1s depo cost, the bid will be 9g99s and the buyout will be 10g. Doesn't make sense to me. |
| 00:53.41 | Nechckn | If it is on, and bid is less/equal to B/O, it would apply to both, though, no? |
| 00:54.18 | Legorol | I don't understand what you mean by "if bid is less/equal to B/O". Appraiser is calculating the bid/buyout, so it's always true. |
| 00:54.23 | Legorol | and no, the setting is not applied to the buyout. |
| 00:54.48 | Legorol | This is a setting that pertains to how Appraiser posts an item, based on (for example) its market price. |
| 00:55.47 | Nechckn | Appraiser just recommends the buyout - the bid is a simple subtraction from that. The setting just adds a floor to the setting. |
| 00:56.52 | Legorol | Yes, ok, Appraiser recommends the buyout, and bid is calculated from that (eg. -20%). This setting does not create a floor (or ceiling). |
| 00:56.54 | Nechckn | We actually do not calculate the bid from any data, other than the buyout, and it is a subtraction. |
| 00:57.01 | Legorol | This setting simply tags an additional subtraction on. |
| 00:57.35 | Nechckn | It makes sure that you get at least the amount back should it be won on bid, though... |
| 00:57.59 | Nechckn | At least from what I can put together without actually seeing anything =) |
| 00:58.19 | Legorol | Get what amount back? |
| 00:58.36 | Legorol | If someone bids (or buys) your auction, you get the whole deposit back anyway, in addition to the bid/buyout amount. |
| 00:58.55 | Nechckn | Does that not include the AH feee, I think it does |
| 00:58.59 | Legorol | and this setting is *reducing* the bid amount, NOT increasing it. So if anything, it makes it worse |
| 00:59.05 | Nechckn | That was what I meant by typo in the UI. |
| 00:59.17 | Nechckn | I can check once I get on the other network, later tonight. |
| 00:59.18 | Legorol | No, this setting does not in any way include the AH fee. |
| 01:00.42 | Legorol | Real-world example: item with market value 57g48s17c, which is what Appraiser sets the buyout to. I set the bid markdown to 0%. With this setting OFF, the bid amount is also set to 57g48s17c. The item has 2g70s deposit cost for 48h. With this setting ON, the bid amount is set to 57g48s17c - 2g70s = 54g78s17c. |
| 01:00.46 | Nechckn | See, I don't have the options, nor can I get to see them to jog the old memory as to why its there, et al. It could be something that was not done right, but, from memory, there was a reason for it. |
| 01:01.08 | Legorol | Yes I realise you can't give a definitive answer :-) I'm just ruling out the obvious answers. If you do have time to check, great |
| 01:01.24 | Nechckn | That is if the item sells, though |
| 01:01.35 | Legorol | of course |
| 01:01.51 | Nechckn | Which could be why it is there to begin with - I can check around for the ticket and stuff later, too. |
| 01:02.04 | Legorol | but what gets me is, regardless of whatever the reason for this setting is (like a safeguard of some sort), why does it only apply to bid and not buyout? |
| 01:02.32 | Legorol | we don't need to know the actual reason for it to see that it doesn't make sense... deposit affects an unsuccessful auction the same way regardless |
| 01:02.51 | Legorol | anyway, i'll leave the question hanging for now :) |
| 01:03.06 | Legorol | i probably won't be around later, please feel free to type the answer here or PM me, and i'll read it tomorrow |
| 01:03.18 | Nechckn | Sure, will see whtat I can do |
| 01:03.23 | Legorol | thank you muchly |
| 01:25.21 | Legorol | Nechckn: actually, about the Beancounter issue, I have missed it before but there is a "Profit" column as well, which is different from the "Net" column |
| 01:26.45 | Legorol | However, it seems that the Profit column is bugged, at the moment it is just the same as the Buyout column. I will poke in the code a bit to see if I can find why it's bugged, and make a ticket. |
| 01:28.20 | Legorol | I have also read http://jira.norganna.org/browse/BCNT-231, which does indirectly pertain to the issue, but all it shows is that BCNT correctly calculates the total (over all transactions). Doesn't say anything about the Profit column. |
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| 15:34.34 | Nechckn | Legorol Did not get out until quite late last night, so only had a few to look into that - It is, as implemented there, just another method to differentiate the bid from the BO and do not think it should be on by default. |
| 15:35.47 | Nechckn | Did not have time to track exactly why it was on, likely just copied in from local settings. |
| 15:38.23 | Nechckn | The next setting is the one that, although specified on the bid, causes both bid and bo to take into account the AH fee and the vendor price. That was where my steam ran out for the night, unfortunately, but will put in the change of at least the setting, so folks cnn choose to use it if they like, but not in the background. |
| 15:38.44 | Legorol | thank you for looking into that one |
| 15:39.06 | Legorol | As for Beancounter, since we spoke I found there is a "Profit" column as well in addition to "Net". |
| 15:39.21 | Legorol | However, the "Profit" wasn't calculated correctly (in my opinion) so I made a ticket about it |
| 15:39.57 | Legorol | Because of the existence of the "Profit" column, I no longer think that the "Net" column should change |
| 16:10.28 | Nechckn | If you have a moment- can you make one under APPR to change that default? Can do it tonight, when I have access, if not. |
| 16:11.28 | Nechckn | That is cool about the BCNT issue; there was a lot of going back and forth about what columns to have and all, so that can give Kandoko something more to consider. Much appreciated! |
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| 17:44.17 | Legorol | Nechckn: made a ticket under APPR too as you asked |
| 17:46.13 | Yoshimo | Nechckn: the issues from ptr i linked yesterday, do you know what is causing them |
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| 18:28.22 | CIA-46 | auctioneer: 03brykrys * r5230 10Auc-Advanced/CoreAPI.lua: Completes [ADV-375] <developer> API function GetAlgorithms now also returns a table of localized names for the algorithms |
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| 19:11.57 | Nechckn | Yoshimo - brykrys actually got back about that one thing - make sure you have cleaned out the old stuff. That, in particular, was from having an extra TipHelper, most likely. |
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| 19:20.04 | Tiefflieger | Hi, could you please tell me what information what Auc-* file in SavedVariables is storing? Or is it somewhere documented? |
| 19:25.24 | Nechckn | There is some on the wiki, that jsut about covers it, sure. One moment. |
| 19:26.32 | Nechckn | http://wiki.norganna.org/AucAdvanced/ScanData |
| 19:27.23 | Nechckn | If you look at that, and the file, then it should be pretty easy to decipher. |
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| 19:37.34 | brykrys | Tiefflieger - unfortunately it's fairly complicated, each Auc-Stat file, and Scandata and Beancounter, maintain their own internal structure in their save files |
| 19:38.35 | Nechckn | Pretty sure that one is still right, though, for Scandata, no? |
| 19:39.18 | Nechckn | As for the others, yeah, they are mostly all over the place. BeanCounter had a nicely done page, until a certain someone totally rearranged it. =) |
| 19:42.05 | brykrys | the main problem is we do a certain amount of packing into strings, and you have to know how to unpack each file, and each one is different :( |
| 19:43.26 | brykrys | and that link for Scandata looks correct as far as it goes, but doesn't say how to do the unpacking |
| 19:45.09 | Tiefflieger | woa cool sorry didn't expect an answer so soon, thanks both of you |
| 19:46.55 | brykrys | I think it's intended for modules using API.QueryImage or equivalent functions, where you get handed the unpacked tables |
| 19:47.30 | Nechckn | Indeed - http://wiki.norganna.org/Auctioneer/5.0/Core_API covers that one. |
| 19:49.02 | brykrys | oh yes, and UnpackImageItem on that page too |
| 19:49.54 | brykrys | righty, are you after the actual Stats, or the AH contents? |
| 19:50.53 | Tiefflieger | I'm thinking about a program that uses these data to determine which items i should buy, make something with it with profession X and sell it for biggest profit |
| 19:52.12 | brykrys | are you talking an in-game module or external? |
| 19:52.24 | Nechckn | Check out gnomeworks by Lilsparky over on http://WoWAce.Com - that may do exactly what you want, and uses the data you obtain with Auctioneer. In-game, that is... |
| 19:52.38 | brykrys | sounds like in-game |
| 19:52.58 | Nechckn | Some folks like their Excel! |
| 19:53.13 | Tiefflieger | I don't know lua, i thought of making it with java |
| 19:53.28 | Tiefflieger | I'll never use excel |
| 19:53.51 | Nechckn | Well, 'generic type spreadsheet' =) |
| 19:54.51 | Tiefflieger | i HATE ms office and all these kinds... they make me turn reeeeally mad |
| 19:54.57 | brykrys | for (buy) Mats -> (sell) Crafted stuff, you need a dedicated database that knows the possible conversions |
| 19:56.01 | Tiefflieger | yep and i wondered if auctioneer has already collected these data, so i could "just" import them into a db |
| 19:56.06 | brykrys | which is not built into Auctioneer, so you would need another AddOn like Gnomeworks |
| 19:56.24 | Tiefflieger | ah ok :) |
| 19:56.35 | Nechckn | It is a lot of mucking about, luckily, lilsparky enjoys pain. |
| 19:56.42 | brykrys | at least, I don't think Informant has data that precise, and that's the only place it might be |
| 19:57.40 | Nechckn | Hrm... you know, you might, especially to use externally. But I would check out gnomeworks, since it really is a nice piece of work. |
| 20:00.38 | brykrys | there's also AckisRecipeList and a few other Tradeskill addons |
| 20:01.55 | brykrys | though I suspect wherever you look, you'd need to figure out the Lua code to work out how to access the databases anyway |
| 20:02.55 | Tiefflieger | I'll definetly do that, thank you. But as for the external thing, i really don't know if i wanna go through with it, like writing a parser and so on - I'll have to have a look at the source to figure out how these files work? |
| 20:03.08 | Tiefflieger | ah ok |
| 20:03.56 | brykrys | pretty much - *someone* would have to look at the source |
| 20:04.20 | Tiefflieger | well i guess that someone would be me :D |
| 20:04.30 | brykrys | hehe |
| 20:06.10 | Nechckn | If you are a big java whiz, you could also do some datamining of http://Wowhead.Com and obtain your data that way, it is about the most thorough, up-to-date info there is, other than direct from the game. |
| 20:06.58 | Nechckn | Their data is very accessible and all, so, just another idea. |
| 20:07.18 | Tiefflieger | Do they have a webservice or some sort I could access? |
| 20:07.37 | Nechckn | Yeah, check 'em out, one second. |
| 20:09.11 | Tiefflieger | that would be nice - but on the other hand, i'd prefer data that came right from the source (the game)... but it would be a lot easier |
| 20:09.42 | Nechckn | Hrm, it used to be more clear about access and all, but their seaches and such can queue up the exact data, then you can scrape it from the results, even. |
| 20:12.43 | Tiefflieger | you mean i'd have to read the whole html-page with java? possible, but far away from efficient :D |
| 20:12.45 | Nechckn | THey used to have a big section with scripts and such for more direct manipulation, but at a quick look, I do not see it. But, if any site has it, it would be them. Something to consider, anyway. |
| 20:13.25 | Tiefflieger | ok thanks for the tip, I'll have a look at that myself |
| 20:18.54 | Nechckn | Well, it is not as sexy as before, but still decent - http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=12490 |
| 20:28.10 | Tiefflieger | hm I don't think that this is what I'm looking for - as far as I can see it's just javascript changing the look of a webpage... I'd just need the data, in whatever form it comes ;) |
| 20:32.54 | Tiefflieger | but don't get me wrong - i'm really thankfull for your and brykrys help :-) |
| 20:34.05 | Nechckn | Well, like this one, in the discussion - http://userscripts.org/scripts/review/13620 it does jsut about what you need, for part of it, anyway. |
| 20:34.18 | Nechckn | Well, like this one, in the discussion - http://userscripts.org/scripts/review/13620 it does jsut about what you need, for part of it, anyway. |
| 20:34.33 | Nechckn | woops,double patey.. |
| 20:35.04 | Nechckn | But, yeah, whatever way works - good luck with it and let us know if you come up with something magical. We like magic! |
| 20:38.23 | Nechckn | I think they cut off the real access they used to have, likely because folks were abusing them, with no pageviews and such. |
| 20:40.14 | Tiefflieger | that could be a reason - that script just parses a html-page and looks for predefined things, that's not what I'd like to do... but I repeat: I'm just thinking of if I could do this ;) |
| 20:41.44 | Tiefflieger | and IF i'm able to do magic, I'll let you know for sure, but thats not a thing you do overnight |
| 21:04.16 | Tiefflieger | thanks a lot to both of you! have a nice evening, I'll return to wow for now :-) |
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