| 00:31.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | update on neo900.org news |
| 00:32.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | many thanks to hellekin |
| 00:33.12 | *** join/#neo900 arossdotme (~zxy@host-92-26-242-236.as13285.net) |
| 00:39.28 | *** join/#neo900 chainsawbike (~chainsawb@unaffiliated/chainsawbike) |
| 01:21.23 | luke-jr | wonders how DocScrutinizer05 got the N900s from Mozilla he thought he was getting one of :p |
| 01:22.16 | luke-jr | ponders if a SIM card could potentially have a radio of its own, and needs a cutoff switch |
| 01:24.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | a) per UPS b) potentially yes, luckily in Neo900 we have such switch already :-) |
| 01:24.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | the switch comes "for free" with SIMmux |
| 01:25.36 | *** join/#neo900 Humpelstilzchen (erik@x4e36646b.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 01:29.30 | ksx4system | luke-jr: isn't a SIM card to small to hold a radio on its own? |
| 01:29.49 | luke-jr | ksx4system: you'd think, but.. I'd have said the same for SD cards, and they have them now |
| 01:30.23 | ksx4system | imho it's not possible... especially with current SIM cards being marginally thinner (yes!) than late 90s ones |
| 01:30.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ksx4system: nope, not the radio, but the antenna is a problem |
| 01:31.05 | ksx4system | DocScrutinizer05: too small to hold a serious range (meters?) antenna |
| 01:31.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | depends on the frequency |
| 01:31.51 | ksx4system | 800, 900, 1800, 2100, 2600 pick one of them |
| 01:32.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | for any decent antenna you want structure in the size of at least lambda/2 |
| 01:32.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can go for massively inductive-only antenna |
| 01:33.07 | luke-jr | but any metal wire can be an antenna, right? so in (perhaps other) designs, it could use one of its pinouts as one.. |
| 01:33.20 | ksx4system | remove SIM, remove microphone, remove speakers (because those might be "hackable" to work like a mic) |
| 01:33.27 | ksx4system | use OS that you can fully control |
| 01:33.49 | luke-jr | if you control the OS, mic and speakers should be fine :P |
| 01:33.53 | ksx4system | use separate device with removable battery and faraday cage pouch for LTE access |
| 01:33.55 | ksx4system | problem fixed |
| 01:34.46 | ksx4system | oh, and VPN everything to your trusted server (and then throw all traffic into tor) because you shouldn't trust LTE provider |
| 01:34.55 | ksx4system | luke-jr: ^ now it's fixed |
| 01:35.03 | ksx4system | 101% paranoia |
| 01:35.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | err what? |
| 01:35.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | LTE provider == The Internet[TM] |
| 01:36.19 | ksx4system | LTE provider might be DPI-ing your traffic |
| 01:36.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | so? everybody could |
| 01:37.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | everywhere on this gloobe basically. AKA "The Internet" == not trustworthy |
| 01:37.44 | ksx4system | DocScrutinizer05: yup |
| 01:37.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess we're talking cross topics |
| 01:37.55 | ksx4system | maybe |
| 01:38.23 | ksx4system | the most secure computer (or similar computer alike device) is the one turned off, hidden in the bunker somewhere |
| 01:38.28 | ksx4system | preferably without power supply |
| 01:38.37 | ksx4system | preferably every single part in separate room |
| 01:39.00 | ksx4system | but it's not that convenient... |
| 01:39.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, but that's not what we're concerned about. We try to make an "online" computer behave |
| 01:40.03 | ksx4system | if there's no point of trusting SIM card - why not cut its power when not in use? |
| 01:40.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | see what I said above. You're free to do that |
| 01:41.23 | ksx4system | would love to see a security audit of nowadays 15eur phone |
| 01:41.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually an interesting question |
| 01:42.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | that thing is *only* modem, nothing else |
| 01:43.14 | ksx4system | tiny ROM for firmware, GSM only radio... |
| 01:45.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I massively doubt they use a classical ROM for firmware. I'm sure those use a flash as well |
| 01:46.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | not that this makes a _lot_ of difference for a security audit |
| 01:48.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't think they would run their firmware off the ROM, they will likely load it to RAM as well, so all sorts of backdoors/exploits and rooting are possible, even if only temporarily and not persistent across reboots |
| 01:49.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | but for example all Nokia phones as of last 10? years afaik used same BB5 modem chipset |
| 01:49.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | and BB5 has flash and most likely even OTA firmware update |
| 01:50.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | nasty feature |
| 01:50.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | updating your firmware by push service, without you even noticing |
| 01:52.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | the first modems I heard of that supported OTA (and even advertised it in their feature list) were around 10 years ago |
| 01:54.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | but even a modem that supposedly doesn't support OTA still may be vulnerable by exploits like ASN.1 and thus you could still do with the modem whatever you like, when you attack it via the radio network |
| 01:54.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | incl firmware update |
| 01:55.58 | *** join/#neo900 herpderphurr (~afwang@c-98-234-221-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 01:58.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | re transmitter in SIM: it gets even more difficult since most SIM holders completely cover the SIM in steel and PCB copper |
| 01:59.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least for N900 and Neo900 that's true |
| 01:59.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | so your active antenna length is 2mm at best |
| 02:00.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the area for an inductive antenna is also pretty limited |
| 02:00.47 | *** join/#neo900 chomwitt (~chomwitt@athedsl-32143.home.otenet.gr) |
| 02:01.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | would need to be in the 20 or even 50 GHz range |
| 02:02.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd not dare to say "impossibe" but for sure quite demanding a task to make that actually happen |
| 02:08.15 | *** join/#neo900 arossdotme-planb (~zxy@host-92-26-242-236.as13285.net) |
| 04:01.23 | *** join/#neo900 DocScrutinizer05 (~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 04:01.23 | *** mode/#neo900 [+v DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 04:11.12 | *** join/#neo900 radekp (~radek@82.113.39.213) |
| 04:32.20 | *** join/#neo900 pagurus` (~user@pD950E255.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 04:32.37 | *** join/#neo900 pagurus` (~user@pD950E255.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 04:35.42 | *** join/#neo900 pagurus (~user@pD950E255.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:08.12 | *** join/#neo900 goiken_ (~goiken@dslb-094-223-166-001.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 05:42.46 | *** join/#neo900 goiken_ (~goiken@dslb-094-223-166-001.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 05:55.20 | *** join/#neo900 chomwitt (~chomwitt@athedsl-31778.home.otenet.gr) |
| 06:07.13 | *** join/#neo900 arcean (~arcean@62.159.77.166) |
| 06:17.51 | *** join/#neo900 goiken_ (~goiken@dslb-094-223-166-001.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 06:20.12 | *** join/#neo900 chainsawbike (~chainsawb@unaffiliated/chainsawbike) |
| 06:45.17 | *** join/#neo900 radekp_ (~radek@82.113.39.213) |
| 06:52.08 | *** join/#neo900 xman (~xman@user-0cdft6f.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 06:55.23 | *** join/#neo900 goiken_ (~goiken@dslb-094-223-166-001.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 06:58.24 | *** join/#neo900 chomwitt (~chomwitt@athedsl-31571.home.otenet.gr) |
| 07:08.05 | *** join/#neo900 mzki (~koza@89-76-126-150.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 07:30.55 | *** join/#neo900 goiken_ (~goiken@dslb-094-223-166-001.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 07:40.42 | *** join/#neo900 SylvieLorxu (~TheLastPr@541B7AAC.cm-5-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 07:57.01 | *** join/#neo900 jonsger (~Thunderbi@HSI-KBW-046-005-016-115.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 08:11.31 | *** join/#neo900 goiken_ (~goiken@dslb-094-223-166-001.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 08:15.01 | *** join/#neo900 xman (~xman@user-0cdft6f.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 08:18.11 | *** join/#neo900 chomwitt (~chomwitt@ppp-94-66-60-22.home.otenet.gr) |
| 08:19.17 | *** join/#neo900 xman (~xman@user-0cdft6f.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 08:40.23 | *** join/#neo900 arcean (~arcean@62.159.77.166) |
| 08:45.32 | *** join/#neo900 goiken_ (~goiken@dslb-094-223-166-001.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 09:07.02 | *** join/#neo900 paulk-collins (~paulk@gagarine.paulk.fr) |
| 11:08.14 | *** join/#neo900 goiken_ (~goiken@dslb-094-223-166-001.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 11:42.50 | *** join/#neo900 goiken_ (~goiken@dslb-094-223-166-001.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 12:03.57 | *** join/#neo900 arcean (~arcean@62.159.77.166) |
| 12:21.53 | *** join/#neo900 goiken_ (~goiken@dslb-094-223-166-001.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 12:27.10 | wpwrak | (SIM antenna) most holders don't over it completely. so if the SIM knows where the openings are, it could extend a little antenna pin through one of them. like in the old spy movies ;-) |
| 12:27.29 | wpwrak | Cover, even |
| 12:48.05 | *** join/#neo900 arcean (~arcean@62.159.77.166) |
| 13:01.30 | *** join/#neo900 goiken_ (~goiken@dslb-094-223-166-001.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 13:39.00 | *** join/#neo900 goiken_ (~goiken@dslb-094-223-166-001.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 14:13.35 | *** join/#neo900 goiken_ (~goiken@dslb-094-223-166-001.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 14:49.07 | *** join/#neo900 goiken_ (~goiken@dslb-094-223-166-001.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 15:27.12 | *** join/#neo900 goiken_ (~goiken@dslb-094-223-166-001.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 15:51.00 | *** join/#neo900 Kabouik (~quassel@147.99.219.143) |
| 15:54.48 | *** join/#neo900 louisdk (~louisdk@static-5-103-130-65.seas-nve.net) |
| 15:59.16 | *** join/#neo900 chomwitt (~chomwitt@ppp-94-66-62-95.home.otenet.gr) |
| 16:57.57 | *** join/#neo900 deafboy (quasselcor@cicolina.org) |
| 17:05.23 | *** join/#neo900 Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 18:33.31 | *** join/#neo900 Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 18:49.53 | *** join/#neo900 Wizzup (~Wizzup@a82-161-36-93.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 19:06.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | did somebody mention http://neo900.org/news/migrating-away-from-eagle-to-kicad already? |
| 19:07.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm no, just a feeble |
| 19:07.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2016-08-10 Wed 02:31:51] <DocScrutinizer05> update on neo900.org news |
| 19:07.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2016-08-10 Wed 02:32:13] <DocScrutinizer05> many thanks to hellekin |
| 20:55.19 | *** join/#neo900 Wizzup (~Wizzup@a82-161-36-93.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 22:47.16 | *** join/#neo900 jonsger (~Thunderbi@HSI-KBW-095-208-248-167.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |