IRC log for #neo900 on 20160730

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02:02.50DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: re awk, I started wondering what the heck... when reading about "libs" like http://www.gnu.org/software/gawk/manual/gawk.html#Extension-Samples
02:04.28DocScrutinizer05though really mad sh*t are the true *arbitrary* libs *.so
02:13.51wpwrak(extensions) what, no multi-threading ? :)
02:17.40DocScrutinizer05with the right lib, why not ;-)
02:19.04DocScrutinizer05or was that just a daydream?
02:19.50wpwraka daymare ? :)
02:21.43DocScrutinizer05well, prolly. I misread >>Lines beginning with @load may be used to load shared libraries into your program.<< as "*arbitrary* shared libraries", though now I think they meant just .so nuilt specifically as awk extensions
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02:24.45DocScrutinizer05however iirc there _was_ one way to invoke functions in arbitrary *.so as long as you know the ABI, form a cmdline tool
02:25.49DocScrutinizer05hmm, wouldn't be surprised to find it in perl or python
02:26.59wpwrakyes, python can interface with C. quite nicely so.
02:27.21wpwrakand i'd be very surprised if there were no suitable hacks for perl :)
02:28.11wpwrakbtw, neo900.pdf generate by sch2fig: https://neo900.org/stuff/paste/neo900-seShah6o.pdf
02:29.02wpwrakTOC is still missing. plus a few minor features you probably won't even notice :)
02:31.22wpwrakand all of it works from the command line, no GUI required
02:32.46DocScrutinizer05hmmm
02:33.07DocScrutinizer05so why do we need that?
02:33.26wpwrakfor visual diffs
02:33.37DocScrutinizer05aaah, hm
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07:59.41DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: SMS issue,maybe related to your issue? https://github.com/harmattan/emojifix Or do your SMs work now?
08:06.08*** join/#neo900 SylvieLorxu (~TheLastPr@541B7AAC.cm-5-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
08:09.21atkDocScrutinizer05: this is just a curious question of mine, if SMS supports 3 encodings, 7 bit, 8 bit "data" and 16bit UCS-2, why do companies get away with using UTF-16 over UCS-2 and additionally (I don't actually know because I've never used on in my life) Does putting in an emoji, or a character not representable by the 7 bit alphabet, suddenly more than halve the number of available characters per SMS?
08:11.43atkand if people get away with UTF-16 over something which is explicitly specified to be using UCS-2, can't they get away with just using UTF-8 over the "8 bit data" encoding type
08:13.51DocScrutinizer05afaik there is no 8bit data type
08:13.59DocScrutinizer05only 7bit
08:14.37atkhttp://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/123000_123099/123038/10.00.00_60/ts_123038v100000p.pdf
08:15.53DocScrutinizer05I have no idea. SMS are a *mess*
08:15.57atkOh, so this is how the "voicemail waiting" stuff works :P
08:16.16DocScrutinizer05SMeSs
08:16.41atkThere's an SMS indication active flag which then lets the sender specify that the message indicates that voicemail is waiting
08:16.42DocScrutinizer05yeah, there's quite a lot of command-SMS defined
08:17.11atkSo yes, back to my question, does putting in an "emoji" really halve the allowed message length?
08:17.25atkor is there some in-line "switch encoding" mechanism
08:17.30DocScrutinizer0516bit chars
08:17.33atkthere is for the language shift tables
08:17.55atkbut that's more "switch alphabet" than "switch encoding"
08:17.57DocScrutinizer05no idea about how emoji are implemented either
08:18.17atkthe github link suggests that they're done with UTF-16 :P
08:18.23atkWhich seems insane
08:18.49atkMajor companies going directly against established standards to provide user convenience of being able to produce stupid smily faces in their text messages.
08:18.56DocScrutinizer05well, almost all except plain ASCII is 16bit afaik
08:19.08DocScrutinizer05chinese, whatnot else
08:19.34DocScrutinizer05and ASCII is 7bit, stuffed to fill 8 bit
08:19.42DocScrutinizer057/8 packed
08:19.57DocScrutinizer05which is anabomination in itself
08:20.35atkDocScrutinizer05: this PDF suggests that German, English, Italian, French, Spanish, Dutch, Swedish, Danish, Portuguese, Finnish, Norwegian, Greek, Turkish, Hungarian, Polish, Czech, Hebrew, Arabic, Russian and Icelandic can be represented using the 7 bit setg
08:20.44DocScrutinizer05then you got one code like 126 or 140 or whatever that tells which type the whole SMS is
08:20.47atkI am aware
08:21.17atkApparently these language shift tables can either be toggled on or used for each character
08:21.21atkit's all quite interesting
08:21.45DocScrutinizer05it's mindboggling
08:21.47atkdesigned so that if a receiver doesn't support the language shift tables, the message should still produce something readable for most languages
08:23.51atkBut yes, apparently you either get 90 characters of text or 40 depending on whether you use the 7 bit alphabet or UCS-2, but isn't the limit 160 characters?
08:24.24DocScrutinizer05hm? isn't that rather 124 or somesuch?
08:24.42DocScrutinizer05or even 130?
08:25.45atkwell, another section explicitly states 160 of 7bit, 140 of 8bit, or 70 of UCS-2
08:25.48DocScrutinizer05160
08:26.07atkbut you can compress the message
08:26.11atkapparently
08:26.37DocScrutinizer05I never heard of compression. Only 7/8 packing
08:27.12DocScrutinizer05~70*16
08:27.12infobot1120
08:27.19DocScrutinizer05~160*7
08:27.19infobot1120
08:28.36DocScrutinizer05anyway I know of no phone where you could select the "codepage" on the fly
08:29.05DocScrutinizer05usually you have to use the codepage/langiage that the phone is set to
08:29.45DocScrutinizer05though you can receive SMS in other codepages, and even copy parts from them into new SMS which inherit the codepage then
08:30.35atkbut 8 bit data is explicitly said to be "user defined"
08:30.49DocScrutinizer05that's why it's called data
08:31.01atkah, that's not what they mean by "on the fly"
08:31.11atkit means that you can only use one alt code page per message
08:31.18DocScrutinizer05yes
08:31.35atkand you switch into the alt code page through either a locking mechanism where you lock into it for a portion of the message, or on a per-character basis
08:31.45atkbut this wouldn't explain emojis
08:31.55atkso It's still interesting as to what hacks they used for that
08:32.19DocScrutinizer05tbh I don't even want to knpw
08:33.04DocScrutinizer05emojis, my a...
08:34.05DocScrutinizer05it *seems* in former times Nokia simply transcoded e.g. :-) into a smiley
08:34.31DocScrutinizer05which sucks
08:35.00DocScrutinizer05:D :) etc
08:36.03DocScrutinizer05then eventually 'industry' agreed on a even more weird method to embed images into what should be plain text
08:36.52DocScrutinizer05how about you look at the raw PDU data?
08:38.23atkthe PDwhat?
08:38.40DocScrutinizer05err isn't that called PDU?
08:38.53atkI have no idea, maybe
08:39.01atkyes, probably
08:39.03atksounds right
08:39.15atkI don't know how I would look at the raw data to be honest
08:40.15DocScrutinizer05I'm absolutely sure it shows up on phonet (tshark), I'd think it even shows up on dbus, _maybe_ it even gets store to rtcomm eventsdb
08:46.37atkand nobody sends me emojis
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12:14.00wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: my SMS emoji issue ? no, that must have been something else. all I need for SMS is a good spam filter :)
14:32.26enycI wonder why I don't get junk sms nor junk calls
14:38.17DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: no t emoji
14:38.35DocScrutinizer05you said you couldn't do SMS
16:25.57*** join/#neo900 SylvieLorxu (~TheLastPr@541B7AAC.cm-5-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
17:08.29atkI don't get junk sms or junk calls either, I simply don't give anyone my phone number.
17:08.37atkThey can go email me if they want to contact me :P
17:09.15atkWell, I don't give anyone my phone number unless they have a explicit statement that they won't randomly call me unnecessarily and won't pass it on to some advertising company.
17:10.08DocScrutinizer05then "their kids" install whatsapp on their phone
17:13.23DocScrutinizer05my gf is *very* wary about not getting tracked, about google knowing her email address and whatnot. Then she hands her android phone to her teen 'clients' (she's streetworker) to install her shit like whatsapp and whatnot else
17:15.39hellekinabandoned the idea that Google doesn't track him, since they have proven they know my id in a way that could be considered a crime in EU: by sending a package at my parents address after I participated in a GSoC.
17:19.31atkscroogle
17:20.39DocScrutinizer05LOL
17:20.50DocScrutinizer05"don't be evil" BWAHAHA
17:22.37atkI have no idea how it all works, but they created a new company and made it their parent company
17:22.57atkand that company (some colourful word) doesn't have that motto anymore
17:23.01atkjust "do the right thing"
17:23.13atk"Alphabet"
17:23.15atkthat was it
17:23.45DocScrutinizer05https://xkcd.com/792/
17:24.17DocScrutinizer05atk: that's pretty old news
17:24.53atkYes, I am aware, but I was just commenting on your "don't be evil", I feel that they stopped not being evil a long long long time ago, and just sealed their fate with that motto change.
17:28.47DocScrutinizer05see xkcd ;->
17:29.23DocScrutinizer05I guess you'll find it's surprisingly to the point when think about it
17:30.15DocScrutinizer05xkcd <3
17:30.36DocScrutinizer05I got that one as poster on my flat's entrance door
17:30.42DocScrutinizer05;)
17:32.56DocScrutinizer05dang ding: only knows "Haustuer" (front door) but not "Wohnungstuer"
17:36.41atkI guess on that point they simply _can't_ be evil, or at least appear evil.
17:37.08hellekinAlphabet...  C I A...
17:43.33atkAlphabet does just sound evil.
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19:39.50DocScrutinizer05CIAFBIGCHQ..., must be the revision2 of alphabet, as of 1984
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21:41.06wpwrak(emoji SMS) oh, that one. that was solved by replacing the ancient SIM with a new one. no further problems since.
21:41.24DocScrutinizer05great!
21:41.33DocScrutinizer05any idea what been the problem?
21:42.23wpwrakno idea what the incompatibility was
21:42.42DocScrutinizer05I hope you kept the old SIM
21:42.51DocScrutinizer05for eventual forensics
21:44.45wpwraki think it's still *somewhere*, with the probability of be retrievable slowly decaying :)
21:45.39DocScrutinizer05how's your local customs situation developing?
21:47.35DocScrutinizer05is there a faint possibility in sight for e.g. ordering a SIMcard reader?
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