IRC log for #neo900 on 20160723

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14:21.10chomwitti was reading in meamo forum about the petition to ms-nokia for openening maemo and i wonder if running maemo on neo900 would help in case some hardware is replaced by hardware which has open drivers. (well i assume that drivers are part a maemo distribution)
14:27.30DocScrutinizer05I can't really parse the question ("running maemo on neo900 would help" with what particularly?), but generally the "openening maemo" is probably a dead and rotten topic, pointless and everything said about it. Rather see:
14:27.34DocScrutinizer05~fptf
14:27.37infobothmm... fptf is the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308
14:32.53chomwittDocScrutinizer05: maybe your right...some times meamo's forum are little hard to grasp, i mean there are some foggy issues. like a member has made a distribution which has among other things the maemo5 sdk.
14:33.07chomwittdoes that resonate with fptf?
14:33.22DocScrutinizer05Nokia maemo department did everything possible to slice out all maemo related IP and assets form Nokia mobile, prior to Nokia mobile getting sold to MS, and hand it over to Hildon Foundation. Stuff that couldn't get hand over was mostly the same stuff that already been rejected to open up in former requests similar to the petition you mention, and found to be impossible to open up mostly due to Nokia not possessing the complete copyright
14:33.23DocScrutinizer05due to employing subcontractors like Collabora
14:34.31DocScrutinizer05~closed
14:34.31infobot[closed] http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages, or http://elinux.org/N900
14:34.46chomwitti mean lets say i have some free time to spare to write an app for fptf, would  Pain-Free Maemo Development OS  be a good entry point ?
14:35.15DocScrutinizer05what's "Pain-Free Maemo Development OS"?
14:35.32chomwitthttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95567
14:36.10DocScrutinizer05I'm aware maemo at large is hard to get an idea of the whole
14:38.37DocScrutinizer05yes, looks like endsormeans probably did a great job polishing the official SDK integration a little
14:40.09*** join/#neo900 xman (~xman@user-0cdft6f.cable.mindspring.com)
14:50.18DocScrutinizer05anyway "app for fptf" is a fuzzy term. Let me explain: maemo (on Neo900) is supposed to be able to run closed apps like calendar, microB browser etc. What's needed are not re-implementations of kernel drivers (we will provide any such drivers that are not already available from upstream, for new hardware. This will be hardly more than one or though, since everything hw we use is already open hardware - we don't have any secret sources of
14:50.20DocScrutinizer05datasheets etc) What's needed is a adaption/reimplementation of *middleware* like CSD, MCE, the closed bits in DSME, OHM, PulseAudio and whatnot else
14:51.12DocScrutinizer05one or 2*
14:52.06DocScrutinizer05timed
14:53.39enycDocScrutinizer05: have you cot pa-st all sticking points with your virtual machine development setup as far as neo900 board development needs are concerned ?
14:54.47DocScrutinizer05yes
14:54.51DocScrutinizer05thanks
14:55.37DocScrutinizer05what would be highly welcome is a genuine xfce (or even generic X11) hotkey kbd macro daemon
14:56.55DocScrutinizer05I can't use the one on host side since the VM seems to grab raw keycodes, particularly if I send Alt+$key, only $key arrives inside VM
14:57.26enycDocScrutinizer05: hrrm i'm not sure about any of that -- never needed to!
14:58.11enycDocScrutinizer05: i've only experienced virtualbox grabbing Right-Ctrl ....
14:58.21DocScrutinizer05ponders to finally kill that recurring issue once and for good, by adding hw macro capabilities to the physical kbd
14:59.49DocScrutinizer05even patching the low-level kernel driver for kbd seems no sustainable approach
15:00.37enycDocScrutinizer05: silly question but do you really know that the application works directly without the vm , e.g. just loop-bmount raw fcopy of image and chroot into it an d run it ?
15:01.02DocScrutinizer05no
15:01.36DocScrutinizer05didn't try
15:01.53enycI'd try that...  =)
15:02.34DocScrutinizer05yeah, possibly worth a shot, now that I got the devuan VM kicad running
15:03.55DocScrutinizer05might also fix the window deco which sort of sucks under xfce
15:04.45DocScrutinizer05I doubt it will pan out, but... worth a try anyway
15:05.35DocScrutinizer05enyc: do you have a template how to tackle that?
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15:06.56chomwittDocScrutinizer05: with that middleware reimplementation i guess all userland apps will be able to run , both maemo old closed ones (like calendar you mentioned) and new ones could be made
15:07.12DocScrutinizer05yes
15:07.45DocScrutinizer05that's the rationale behind the aproach taken
15:12.25DocScrutinizer05enyc: >>e.g. just loop-bmount raw fcopy of image and chroot into it<< sounds pretty easy but doesn't really resolve
15:16.21*** join/#neo900 timclassic (~user@cpe-72-229-237-229.nyc.res.rr.com)
15:16.29DocScrutinizer05looks into http://serverfault.com/questions/709192/loop-back-mount-a-vmdk-flat-image-on-a-linux-box
15:33.31enycDocScrutinizer05: vboxmanage or qemi-img or similar should be able to copy the image to a  raw image file
15:33.47enycDocScrutinizer05: or use tar  to copy the contents into a chroot directory outside ...
15:33.58enycDocScrutinizer05: tar // netcat pipe sort of thing
15:34.05DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/94398751
15:34.47DocScrutinizer05I'll try vboxmanage
15:37.14DocScrutinizer05clonehd ?
15:38.46enycquite possible
15:38.55enycor qemu-img --convert  or similar
15:38.58enycbeen a while since i did
15:39.09DocScrutinizer05it's a VBox, not qemu
15:39.11enycif you have a simple raw-formatted file
15:39.13enycyes i know
15:39.21enycqemu-img is a useful tool for copying/cloning images!
15:39.34enycwhich supports some vmdk formats iirc
15:40.35DocScrutinizer05lovely how VBox comes with no manpages at all
15:40.44DocScrutinizer05>:-
15:40.50DocScrutinizer05>:-( even
15:41.10enycif you have working internatl networking between vm and host ...  knowing internal ip addresses etc   we can just tar across...
15:41.52DocScrutinizer05hmm, as far as ssh goes
15:42.14enycok... i tell you now etc...
15:42.32enyccheck netstat -tnW  inside the vm - look for that ssh connection
15:42.36enycyou should see the ip addresses ?
15:45.08DocScrutinizer05WAAAH what did I do??? :-P
15:46.07DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/24647490  http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/23/plasma-desktoptS2277.png
15:47.06enycno idea cant comment
15:47.07enycerr
15:47.15enyccan you see ip addreses in use betewen host and vm or not ???
15:47.24DocScrutinizer05remote X opened kicad
15:47.27enycdont do that
15:47.47enyccan you see ip addreses in use betewen host and vm or not ???  <--  see if can get this figured out quickly and efficiently
15:48.01DocScrutinizer05which side?
15:48.11enyccheck  "netstat -tnW"  inside the vm - look for that ssh connection
15:49.19enycyou now know addresses used ?????
15:49.23DocScrutinizer05hmm 10.0.2.15:22
15:49.30enycok so 10.0.2.15 is the VM
15:49.48enycthats *probably* sufficient alone, can connect in that direction
15:49.56enycthough, worth noticing the other end of that conenction ??
15:50.27DocScrutinizer05-p2222 root@127.0.0.1 ??
15:50.31enyc10.0.2.15:22 connected to  10.0.2.??:[1024-65535]  or similar ?
15:50.44enycno, just look at the rest of that line  in  netstat -tnV
15:50.45enycno, just look at the rest of that line  in  netstat -tnW
15:50.48DocScrutinizer05Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address           Foreign Address         State
15:50.49DocScrutinizer05tcp        0      0 10.0.2.15:22            10.0.2.2:39870          ESTABLISHED
15:50.51DocScrutinizer05tcp        0      0 10.0.2.15:22            10.0.2.2:50326          ESTABLISHED
15:51.02enycright so 10.0.2.15 is the VM and 10.0.2.2  is the host, apparently
15:51.10enycnow you/we know, finally !!!!!
15:51.28DocScrutinizer05it would help to know what we're after
15:51.51enycunless they are doing any superweird translation thing that is what need to know for  tar // netcat  copy technique =)
15:52.09enycright...  (a) create a directory for chroot in the host
15:52.15DocScrutinizer05why not use scp?
15:52.24DocScrutinizer05or ssh tar
15:52.40enycDocScrutinizer05: possible too, if you can make it do the right thing wrt permissions and one-filesystem-only and all that
15:52.52enycDocScrutinizer05: IME ssh piping data much slower than direct socket
15:53.04DocScrutinizer05well, let's try it your way
15:53.05enycDocScrutinizer05: but indeed you may be able to do that if you know what you are doing
15:53.25enycDocScrutinizer05: i've had nonsense with all the mounted 'virtual filesystems' and bind mount seems to deal with it most effectively
15:53.35enycDocScrutinizer05: ok
15:53.44enycright...  (a) create a directory for chroot in the host
15:54.05enycright...  (b) in the VM,   "mkdir /bind"  and  "mount / /bind -o bind"
15:54.23enycthis will give a /bind directory whose contents is *only* the ACTUALY rootfs  without any 'complications'
15:54.38enycINCLUDING being able to access the 'underlying' even when a virtual filessytem mounts over the top later in boot
15:55.53DocScrutinizer05done
15:56.19DocScrutinizer05please write commands without "" and ideally ; instead "and"
15:56.27DocScrutinizer05wasier to c&p ;-)
15:57.29enyci see
15:57.37enycin the VM,          cd /bind
15:57.42enycin the host,  cd into the  chroot directory
15:57.59DocScrutinizer05done
15:58.59enyc... must be root in both cases, which sets lots of defaults in tar anyway ...
15:59.09DocScrutinizer05done
15:59.25enycin the VM,       tar --numeric-owner -cvS * | nc -lp 9999
15:59.26DocScrutinizer05been there already
15:59.56enycif needbe will need to install netcat package ... hopefully that will 'sit there waiting'
16:00.25enycthen in the host,    nc 10.0.2.15 9999 | tar --numeric-owner -xvS
16:01.14DocScrutinizer05we should have addad a -v somewhere
16:01.19enycthe numeric-owner stuffs is especially important because debian//suse may have different uid/gid for core things,  and we want the debian chroot to copy properly
16:01.29enycthere is a -v in there both ways round
16:01.37enycshould be listing the files being copied in both ends
16:01.42DocScrutinizer05I don't think port 9999 is exported
16:01.48DocScrutinizer05by NAT
16:01.54enycthis shouldn't be using the nat
16:02.01enycit should be just conecting between the host and the vm directly
16:02.09enyci.e. host just directly connects to the guest
16:02.14DocScrutinizer05nothing going on
16:02.22enyccheck netstat -tnW in host
16:02.33DocScrutinizer05host and guest separated by VBox NAT
16:03.01enycno, the NAT is used when VM talks 'outside' to other machines
16:03.08enycnot needed when host talks to guest directly
16:03.31DocScrutinizer05saturn:/home/jr/vagrant-test/kicad-devuan-amd64/chrootdir # nc 10.0.2.15 9999 | tar --numeric-owner -xvS
16:03.33DocScrutinizer05tar: This does not look like a tar archive
16:03.35DocScrutinizer05tar: Exiting with failure status due to previous errors
16:03.36DocScrutinizer05saturn:/home/jr/vagrant-test/kicad-devuan-amd64/chrootdir # netstat -tnW
16:03.38DocScrutinizer05netstat: invalid option -- 'W'
16:03.52enyccooo old/odd netstat version
16:03.55enycmiss off the W ;p
16:04.01DocScrutinizer052nd line after quite a timeout
16:04.36enycyes so it just can't connect to that guest in that manner , ok maybe virtualbox networking is more fiddly ...  could indeed pipe it over ssh  or try connecting the other wayround
16:04.40enycother way round may be best
16:05.07enycget host to  nc -lp | tar --numeric-owner -xvS
16:05.19enycerrrrrrrrror
16:05.25enycget host to   nc -lp 9999 | tar --numeric-owner -xvS
16:06.08enycand guest to   tar --numeric-owner -cvS * | nc 10.0.2.2 9999
16:06.32DocScrutinizer05and I hope you're not going to nuke my host with this
16:06.35enyc(it may be, the guest needs to refer to the host by some different ip address of the host, rather than some weird vbox-nat-address-thing)
16:06.55enycDocScrutinizer05: indeed !!  you need to run tar in the correct (empty) directory so all it does iss   extract files in that directory!
16:06.56DocScrutinizer05I really don't like to run tar as root on host
16:08.15DocScrutinizer05you'll need to check this http://paste.opensuse.org/66941134 since I just suffer vision problems
16:08.17enycDocScrutinizer05: all i can say is i've done this (with care) many times,  though not specifically using virtualbox, but many virtualizer setups / linux systems
16:09.04DocScrutinizer05or let's postpone a little until this issue vanished
16:09.19enycDocScrutinizer05: so its quite clear your machine is 192.168.4.21  on some other lan it uses ...
16:09.28DocScrutinizer05so?
16:09.39enycDocScrutinizer05: so, that may be a workable way to refer to machine from guest
16:09.54DocScrutinizer05VBox uses some NAT
16:09.54enycDocScrutinizer05: e.g. to feed in a tarpipe of filessytem quickly and easily =)
16:10.08enycDocScrutinizer05: yes, so outgoing connection from VM should always work however they implemented it
16:10.20enycDocScrutinizer05: hence... telling yu tow to connect the other way round
16:11.04DocScrutinizer05maybe tunneling thoough ssh is easier?
16:11.18enycDocScrutinizer05: Host can ...    nc -lp 9999 | tar --numeric-owner -xvS      ... and  guest can  ...      tar --numeric-owner -cvS * | nc 192.168.4.21 9999          ...
16:11.21DocScrutinizer05instead nc
16:12.23enycpossibly so, the above worth a go.  also could be confusion with minorly different netcat viariants -- some need nc -l 9999  others need nc -lp 9999 !!
16:12.38enyci think outgoing nc connection (as above) likely to work
16:12.52enycunless opensuse does some weird firewall-nonsense of its own =)
16:13.41DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/39465417  http://paste.opensuse.org/5152629
16:14.39DocScrutinizer05meh
16:15.10DocScrutinizer05(UNKNOWN) [192.168.4.21] 9999 (?) : Connection timed out
16:15.17enycDocScrutinizer05: this is exactly the case about port 9999 error
16:15.19enycDocScrutinizer05: err
16:15.23enycDocScrutinizer05: nc variant
16:15.39enyc<PROTECTED>
16:16.12DocScrutinizer05sorry, afk, need to regain clear vision
16:16.16enycalso, the timeout, suggests  iptables -I INPUT -p tcp --dport 9999 -j ACCEPT   due to opensuse firewall    ...    THEN it should work =)))
16:16.19enycok
16:16.21enyclater
16:16.25enycit really is that >< close to working =)
16:22.05*** join/#neo900 heinrich5991 (~hein5991@unaffiliated/heinrich5991)
16:58.44DocScrutinizer05dang, did an oopsie deleting a dir. Shouldn't try working when vision issue. Thanks btrfs and snapper, I'll recover in 15 min
17:00.04DocScrutinizer05pro tip: try to keep your snapper volumes as small as possible, it takes ages to calculate the diffs between a 800GB snapshot and recent volume
17:33.33DocScrutinizer05AAAAAAAAGES
17:41.30DocScrutinizer05annoying: it been the VM's shared host dir, so the VM went 100PU and I had to stop it
17:41.44DocScrutinizer05100% CPU
17:42.31DocScrutinizer05now no use really to start it again until snapper -c home undochange 832..835 /home/jr/vagrant-test/kicad-devuan-amd64/tmp/; finally completes
17:44.39DocScrutinizer05and it seems snapper is a PoS that does a complete diff on the whole volume to finally look into that to decide the files to undochange
17:45.18DocScrutinizer05instead of limiting the diff to only the path provided as argument
17:51.30wpwrakthe next version will do better: it'll upload the volume over a poorly encrypted connection to some cloud service that will then do the diff. naturally, this service will shut down the day before you need some major recovery.
17:53.03DocScrutinizer05next version?
17:53.40wpwrakof that snapper
17:54.06DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/23/plasma-desktopOW2277.png
17:54.45DocScrutinizer05maybe starting the cmdline version in parallel due to lack of patience didn't help either
17:55.16wpwrakmurphy's rule of backup tools: even if they work, it takes longer to restore a file than to recreate it
17:55.46wpwrak(in parallel) ah, listen to the disk then. maybe it's thrashing
17:56.54DocScrutinizer05then I SIGSTPed the GUI version and finally though "well, who knows, maybe snapperd is waiting forever to receive a modal respnse from that stopped thing and the cmdline can't continue until that transaction completed" and SIGCONT it, to close the window. In which moment the content popped up ;-P
17:57.27DocScrutinizer05the dis is busy all the time, even with one snapper instance
17:58.43DocScrutinizer05anyway http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/23/plasma-desktopWF2277.png
17:59.38DocScrutinizer05you could say the HDD disaster a two months ago paid off
17:59.54DocScrutinizer05otherwise I had no RAID and no btrfs
18:02.14DocScrutinizer05in 400s recover will be finished
18:02.53*** join/#neo900 announ (~announ@181.167.40.65)
18:10.03DocScrutinizer05hmm, ~4GB "free" (swapped out, buffers only) RAM after finishing
18:10.39DocScrutinizer05unusual, normally I got <1GB free RAM
18:11.03wpwrakdon't worry, now everything will be agonizingly slow because it has to swap in tons of stuff :)
18:11.17DocScrutinizer05I know that effect :-)
18:12.05DocScrutinizer05see it twice a week after I managed to kill a browser page that for whatever reasons tried to allocate ALL ram it can get
18:12.28DocScrutinizer05linkedin pages are notorious to do that
18:17.28DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/89331823
18:26.44DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/24331004
18:30.15DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/59442455
18:40.28wpwrakhellekin: btw, how about a little news snippet about our transition to kicad ? that would not only quench people's thirst for news, but it would also have our news start with something more upbeat than "PayPal trouble" (resolved, but still)
18:47.12DocScrutinizer05enyc: running a    saturn:/home/jr/vagrant-test/kicad-devuan-amd64/chrootdir # ssh -p2222 root@127.0.0.1 'cd /bind; tar --numeric-owner -cvS *'| tar --numeric-owner -xvS   ;# now
18:48.21DocScrutinizer05seems to work
18:50.44DocScrutinizer05since CPUs are not maxed out neither host nor VM, I guess the bottleneck is iowait anyway
18:51.16DocScrutinizer05so the ssh encryption overhead is irrelevant
18:54.05DocScrutinizer05and done
19:25.09*** join/#neo900 AndrewX192 (~andrew@unaffiliated/andrewx192)
19:25.21DocScrutinizer05http://www.heise.de/forum/heise-online/News-Kommentare/Snowden-lehrt-iPhones-das-Whistleblowing/Greift-etwas-kurz/posting-28949392/show/  https://www.pubpub.org/pub/direct-radio-introspection  I don't get it why they even consider such complicated monitoring when they can't guarantee that the friggin iOS itself doesn't already have a full featured spyware that does liiterally all with the phone, from pretending it's off (also on Antenna)
19:25.22DocScrutinizer05while still listening to remote commands, to recording GPS fixes and days of audio, for later download - NSA will do a dance of joy when journalists actually think such a "shell hardened" iPhone would be secure to take to a conspirator meeting
19:29.44*** join/#neo900 jonsger (~Thunderbi@2a02:8070:799:dd00:a8d9:d210:bd57:d5ab)
19:43.11DocScrutinizer05when even Snowden doesn't see this, it's quite sad
19:43.49DocScrutinizer05then otoh nobody certified Snowden as an expert for decure hw design, right?
19:43.54DocScrutinizer05secure even
19:44.35DocScrutinizer05Snowden had access to lots of secret documents and did the right thing, that doesn't make him an expert for secure hw design
19:46.49DocScrutinizer05considering this, it's a pretty flawed plan - Bunnie rather should have contacted e.g. snoopsnitch's SRlabs / the Cryptophone guys, or (duh!) Neo900 crew
19:48.47*** join/#neo900 xes_ (~xes@unaffiliated/xes)
20:33.26DocScrutinizer05ummm aha!  >>It is no surprise that complex systems such as the Apple iPhone 6 would have test points baked into the circuit board design to assist with debugging. These are an essential part of yield and customer experience improvement; defective units from the factory and the field are sent back to the headquarters, and engineers rely on these testpoints to determine the root cause of the device’s failure.<<
20:39.13DocScrutinizer05hmmm >>It is hypothesized that an attempt to even passively scan for base stations without transmitting will require traffic on this bus; at the very least, the antenna switches must be powered on and configured to receive<<  well a hypothesis is a tad 'weak' to build a security solution on that
20:40.42enycDocScrutinizer05: okies i here now
20:41.35enycDocScrutinizer05: ok we need to rbind mount /dev into chroot and bind mount proc and sys.... i think... one moment i check commands
20:41.53enycDocScrutinizer05: in the VM, you can  umount /bind  and rmdir /bind   to clean up, though not important per-se
20:43.13enycDocScrutinizer05: i think,   mount /dev /home/jr/vagrant-test/kicad-devuan-amd64/chrootdir/dev -o rbind
20:43.26enycDocScrutinizer05: then,   mount /proc /home/jr/vagrant-test/kicad-devuan-amd64/chrootdir/proc -o bind
20:43.36enycDocScrutinizer05: then,   mount /sys /home/jr/vagrant-test/kicad-devuan-amd64/chrootdir/sys -o bind
20:43.51enycthen should have functional chroot special directories =)
20:46.53DocScrutinizer05done
20:48.00DocScrutinizer05saturn:/home/jr/vagrant-test/kicad-devuan-amd64/chrootdir # cd /home/jr/vagrant-test/kicad-devuan-amd64/chrootdir; mount -o rbind  /dev ./dev/; mount -o bind  /proc/ ./proc/; mount -o bind  /sys/ ./sys/
20:49.46DocScrutinizer05saturn:/home/jr/vagrant-test/kicad-devuan-amd64/chrootdir # echo -e '#!/bin/sh\ncd /home/jr/vagrant-test/kicad-devuan-amd64/chrootdir; mount -o rbind  /dev ./dev/; mount -o bind  /proc/ ./proc/; mount -o bind  /sys/ ./sys/' >/usr/local/bin/kicad-chroot
20:51.55enycyes...
20:52.02enycnow try just "chroot chrootdir" ...
20:52.31enycsu - compile
20:52.56enycyou (may) be able to then execute kicad.. but I suspect some copying of x11 cookies / .Xauthority  will be needed for x11 box to wkr
20:54.43DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/23/plasma-desktopGz2277.png  http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/23/plasma-desktopvF2277.png
20:55.20DocScrutinizer05well wait
20:57.28enycooo it just works hrrm ok
20:58.43DocScrutinizer05yep, just works, I just confirmed without running >> ssh -Y -p2222 compile@127.0.0.1 kicad  in background
20:59.02DocScrutinizer05though that's completely unrelated
20:59.06enyck
20:59.13enycquestion is, does that alt-key behaviour change?
20:59.17DocScrutinizer05I need to fetch my coffee in kitchen
21:07.07DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/23/plasma-desktopcW2277.png  http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/23/plasma-desktopVG2277.png  no the coffee
21:08.54DocScrutinizer05great! many thanks
21:18.39enycDocScrutinizer05: hrrrm
21:18.43enycDocScrutinizer05: i wonder why this works
21:19.17enycDocScrutinizer05: rather, i wonder why the virtualization // x11 in virtualbox // xfce session // messes up alt somewhere
21:19.45enycDocScrutinizer05: do you see, that chroot works, truly keeping the  rpm-instlaled and  chroot deb-installed  files separate?
21:20.10enycDocScrutinizer05: note, some bind mounting or smb mounting or similar, of the   data directories would be needed, if you are to use the chroot 'seriously' ...
21:21.05DocScrutinizer05I understand the data dir issue
21:21.09*** join/#neo900 fling (~fling@fsf/member/fling)
21:21.15enycok
21:21.26enycof course you might not have matching UIDs for the data dir...!
21:21.31DocScrutinizer05I don't understand >>do you see, that chroot works, truly keeping...<<
21:21.54*** join/#neo900 lkcl (~lkcl@157.97.15.148)
21:22.12enycDocScrutinizer05: err...  think history...  you originally said... you didn't want to use chroot,  because mix rpm and deb
21:22.39DocScrutinizer05I don't know how to check for what you asked
21:22.51DocScrutinizer05actually I don't understand what you asked#
21:23.00enycDocScrutinizer05: think back for a bit....
21:23.08enycDocScrutinizer05: some days ago --  you originally said... you didn't want to use chroot,  because mix rpm and deb
21:23.18DocScrutinizer05did I?
21:23.25enycyes
21:23.51DocScrutinizer05sounds strange since that statement makes no sense to me today, so how would it make sense a few days ago?
21:24.21DocScrutinizer05I guess this was a misconception or bad wording or whatever
21:24.54DocScrutinizer05I still don't know what to check to answer your question
21:25.35DocScrutinizer05which rpm installed files could the chroot possibly access?
21:25.57DocScrutinizer05except of those that are bindmounts
21:26.10DocScrutinizer05and those are not rpm installed
21:26.36enyc00:47 <+DocScrutinizer05> a chroot is more complex to manage than a VM
21:26.36enyc00:47 <+DocScrutinizer05> particularly when you want to create a different OS environment inside the chroot
21:27.10DocScrutinizer05hmm, ok, that was an incorrect estimation
21:28.08DocScrutinizer05so would you need a lsof now, to check for any rpm files accessed from chroot?
21:29.19enycthrrm i'm sure you sai somethnig about rpm mibx but cant easily gfind it now
21:29.28DocScrutinizer05btw OpenGL canvas in chroot causes immediate quit of kicad now
21:29.47enycDocScrutinizer05: likely misunderstading somewhere
21:29.56enycDocScrutinizer05: it couldn't... soits fine
21:30.22enycDocScrutinizer05: so... opengl won't (easily) owrk in that config
21:30.37DocScrutinizer05compile@saturn:~$ kicad
21:30.37enycDocScrutinizer05: MAYBE some messing with Xauthority and so on will allow some shard memory or similar
21:30.39DocScrutinizer05Segmentation fault
21:30.47enycDocScrutinizer05: maybe it won't ;p
21:31.20enycDocScrutinizer05: or you could get another disk and install devuan directly on that =)  then you can just install/run the debs' directly on that =)
21:31.25enycno more opensuse =)
21:32.35DocScrutinizer05please, we been at this point in several discussions with wpwrak during the last days. I need a productive environment, not a clean empty devuan install that's not linked to anything at all, like email, irc, whatnot else
21:32.52enychave you ? ok
21:33.04enyci didn't know =)
21:33.19DocScrutinizer05yep, just he suggested ubuntu
21:34.11enycubuntu-MATE variant or Mint-MATE or devuan or debian  would work imho!
21:34.16enycbut there you go
21:34.23DocScrutinizer05I rather wonder what this OpenGL actually involves on my system. I don't think I got any of that installed in the host
21:34.41enycjust be aware if you have _Problematic_ older system it may sink more and more time 'fiddling' ...
21:35.01enycDocScrutinizer05: i wnoder too -- can you try running a different glx program in chroot
21:35.02DocScrutinizer05been there
21:35.06DocScrutinizer052 days ago
21:35.09enycDocScrutinizer05: glxgears or similar ?
21:35.40DocScrutinizer05let's start with "can I run a opengl program in host?"
21:36.41DocScrutinizer05ok that works
21:37.02DocScrutinizer05no glxgears in chroot
21:37.30DocScrutinizer05so more likely than not, the needed opengl libs etc are missing in the devuan chroot rather than on my host
21:38.07Defiantapt-get install mesa-utils
21:38.10Defiantfor glxgears
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21:39.06enycDocScrutinizer05: package should install/require the nedede 'dependencies' ....
21:40.18DocScrutinizer05hmm, the connectivity in chroot is... not really working
21:40.33Wizzup/etc/resolv.conf set?
21:40.41DocScrutinizer05nope, of course not
21:41.37enyc=)
21:42.26DocScrutinizer05Setting up mesa-utils (8.2.0-1) ...
21:42.27DocScrutinizer05root@saturn:/#
21:44.35DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/23/plasma-desktopSX2277.png
21:45.40DocScrutinizer05I guess that's what I meant with "a chroot might now work in an environment that doesn't have same architecture )and libs and whatnot)"
21:45.40enychrrrrm
21:45.51enycenyc@sparkie:~$ glxinfo
21:45.52enycname of display: :0.0
21:45.52enycdisplay: :0  screen: 0
21:45.52enycdirect rendering: Yes
21:45.52enycserver glx vendor string: SGI
21:45.52DocScrutinizer05s/now/not/
21:45.54enycserver glx version string: 1.4
21:46.11enychrrrm.... can you get 'glxinfo' up in suse outside the chroot ??
21:46.17DocScrutinizer05sure
21:47.01DocScrutinizer05enjoy ;-) http://paste.opensuse.org/44756728
21:47.24enyci suspect something about X authority / similar
21:47.37DocScrutinizer05possibly
21:47.46enycsuch that it doesn't see the glx shared memory and all the rest of it ...
21:48.31DocScrutinizer05a setuid driver inside chroot still wouldn't be allowed to access any shared mem in host, right?
21:48.45enyc/dev/shm is mounted in there
21:48.50enycvia the /dev rbind
21:48.53DocScrutinizer05hmm, actually nevermind, root is root I guess
21:48.56enycand a process ran as root can access it
21:49.20enycbut, I suspcet something about X server and Xauthority and all that isn't letting it ''see'' access to all that correctly
21:50.12DocScrutinizer05must be something OpenGL specific, xeyes and kicad work
21:51.19enychrrm
21:51.22enyctry this anyway....
21:51.34enycrename .Xauthority in  compiles' homedir in chroot
21:51.56DocScrutinizer05err I'm root
21:51.57enycand cp .Xauthority from outside, in there, and chown compile:compile .Xauthority   in the chroot
21:52.00DocScrutinizer05wait
21:55.50enycwaiting
21:56.43DocScrutinizer05no change
21:57.20DocScrutinizer05"waiting" he says ;-D
21:57.21enycWhat date of release is the opensuse install ?
21:57.43DocScrutinizer05which subsystem?
21:57.45enycindeed some big version mismatch bteween glx libs and x version etc... wouldn't surprised me
21:58.02enycDocScrutinizer05: the release of opensuse in use, rather than any particular subsystem per-se
21:58.18DocScrutinizer05dunno
21:58.26DocScrutinizer05old
21:58.42enyc2010's or before or ?
21:58.47DocScrutinizer05if it wasn't old, I had installed kicad from repos
21:59.04DocScrutinizer05no, for sure not 2010 or older
21:59.24DocScrutinizer05some 3 years old
22:00.52DocScrutinizer05I don't know how opengl works but I could imagine it uses kernel driver directly
22:01.41DocScrutinizer05must be pretty low level hw access
22:02.21enycanway
22:02.24DocScrutinizer05the purpose of OpenGL aiui is to make use of GFX accel in graficscard
22:02.37enycin the short term with the old-openssl etc...  can you make do without the kicad glx ????
22:02.49enycerr with old-opensuse i mean
22:03.00DocScrutinizer05sorry?
22:03.42enyc-- is this  glx-not-working-in-chroot,  a show-stopper,  can you make do without it,  while still keeping the old-opensuse  for now ?
22:03.53DocScrutinizer05yes
22:04.57enyci've had some weird crazy mixed chroot system messes ;p
22:05.33enychad something like  ... particular kernel in the host ... mixed with particular versions ... etc etc ...
22:07.17DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/79304335
22:09.35DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/17483709
22:12.36DocScrutinizer05access("/root/.xauth65KEsO", R_OK)      = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)  o.O
22:13.05wpwrakunset XAUTHORITY ?
22:13.39DocScrutinizer05root@saturn:/# echo $XAUTHORITY
22:13.41DocScrutinizer05/root/.xauth65KEsO
22:13.42DocScrutinizer05:-D
22:16.00DocScrutinizer05well, anyway I can't
22:16.34DocScrutinizer05seems I'm confused today, the env var XAUTHORITY rejects all changes and unset
22:17.22wpwrakthat sounds unlikely :)
22:18.15DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/48828538
22:19.01DocScrutinizer05DAMN!
22:19.16wpwrak;-)
22:19.52DocScrutinizer05alas that doesn't change much
22:20.27wpwrakcan you start an xterm, xeyes, xclock, or anything else that's simple ?
22:24.10wpwrakthe key things: copy .Xauthority from the account that "owns" the session; in the su/chroot/etc. session, unset XAUTHORITY; set DISPLAY to something that's accessible. in a chroot without further ado, that would be localhost:...
22:25.27DocScrutinizer05already did
22:25.38wpwrakso do simple X applications run ?
22:25.43DocScrutinizer05yes
22:25.49DocScrutinizer05always did
22:26.01wpwrakperfect. but kicad doesn't ?
22:26.11DocScrutinizer05kicad does
22:26.22DocScrutinizer05opengl canvas doesn't
22:26.29DocScrutinizer05glxgear doesn't
22:27.20DocScrutinizer05glxinfo gives  next to zilch
22:28.07DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/17483709
22:28.16DocScrutinizer05(repost)
22:29.05DocScrutinizer05wtf? open("/dev/vboxuser", O_RDWR)           = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
22:29.33DocScrutinizer05I guess THAT explains quite a lot
22:30.11DocScrutinizer05so how do I get that vbox guest extensions out of that chroot?
22:30.41wpwrakyou're still running under VBox ? i thought you were now in chroot ? /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/x86_64/VBoxOGLcrutil.so
22:30.46DocScrutinizer05NO
22:31.28DocScrutinizer05I created that chroot from the vbox build
22:31.49wpwrakcan you set up a new, clean chroot environment, without involving vbox ?
22:32.03DocScrutinizer05honestly now?
22:32.21DocScrutinizer05and then? start all over again building kicad?
22:32.30wpwrakwell, i don't know what vbox does there. and apparently it left its mark.
22:34.21DocScrutinizer05yes, and it's exactly about how to 2remove that mark" - I guess installing a few untampered devuan *,so is needed
22:34.37wpwrakor maybe this works: https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/4039
22:36.55DocScrutinizer05Removing existing VirtualBox DKMS kernel modules  -- HEAR HEAR!
22:37.16DocScrutinizer05success
22:37.24DocScrutinizer05glxgear runs
22:37.29wpwrakwhee ! :)
22:37.53wpwrakhow many fps ?
22:38.04DocScrutinizer05err how would I know?
22:38.20wpwraklet it run. it prints it
22:38.25DocScrutinizer05ooh
22:38.28DocScrutinizer05301 frames in 5.0 seconds = 60.001 FPS
22:38.30DocScrutinizer05301 frames in 5.0 seconds = 60.003 FPS
22:38.41wpwrakokay, that's a good start
22:39.43DocScrutinizer05ARGGHH!  http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/24/plasma-desktophc2277.png
22:40.00wpwrak;-)))
22:45.22DocScrutinizer05yeah, OpenGL canvas is quite a bit faster than Cairo canvas
22:45.40DocScrutinizer05enyc: many thanks! :-)
22:45.53DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: thanks too
22:48.15DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/52734901 been the trick
22:50.49DocScrutinizer05edits /usr/local/bin/kicad-chroot so it understands a --make and a --start and --stop parameter
22:55.08atkthis sounds complicated
22:55.30atkI think you guys are over-complicating this to death :P
23:01.13DocScrutinizer05what sounds complicated?
23:01.37DocScrutinizer05a tiny script for starting a chroot?
23:05.28DocScrutinizer05let's see how to resolve this now  http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/24/plasma-desktophu2277.png
23:05.44DocScrutinizer05frowns at ../../../
23:06.12*** join/#neo900 lkcl (~lkcl@157.97.15.148)
23:07.41DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: ^^^ could we keep hierarchy a little less deep?
23:08.10DocScrutinizer05maybe a symlink would do?
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