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| 06:49.23 | edwin | DocScrutinizer51: got this "Thank you for contacting PayPal regarding your payment to Neo900 UG (haftungsbeschränkt).The funds will be available to the seller in order to complete your order.It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing PayPal." |
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| 11:19.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | edwin: that sounds actually reasonable |
| 11:19.37 | edwin | did it have a positive effect on your account? |
| 11:20.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | no change on account in any way |
| 11:23.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2015/10/16/plasma-desktopfH9051.png http://wstaw.org/m/2015/10/16/plasma-desktopkK9051.png |
| 11:26.48 | edwin | was that 404 available previously too? |
| 11:27.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 11:28.11 | edwin | I replied now: I have contacted the seller, and they say there was no change on their account, the amount available and amount withheld is the same as previously. The funds I transfered are present, but frozen. Can you confirm that you have unfrozen/released from any reserve the payment that I sent? |
| 11:28.22 | edwin | btw I got their reply in Help->Message Center |
| 11:28.38 | edwin | and email telling me to read the reply there |
| 11:31.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | the second link above is about as much info as I can get from PP about the whole issue. See the sarcastic "Starthilfe" |
| 11:32.36 | edwin | meaning? start to help? |
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| 11:33.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | help on start |
| 11:33.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | help starting |
| 11:33.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | help for starting |
| 11:34.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | hard to translate |
| 11:34.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | starting aid, jumpstart |
| 11:34.25 | edwin | indeed not much help if its withhelp |
| 11:34.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | it gets even 'better' /aka more puzzling): http://wstaw.org/m/2015/10/16/plasma-desktopOa9051.png |
| 11:37.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | and http://wstaw.org/m/2015/10/16/plasma-desktopdC9051.png http://wstaw.org/m/2015/10/16/plasma-desktopFe9051.png |
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| 11:39.20 | edwin | added this to my msg: Here is what the seller showed me, note that the 404.48 EUR was available even before I made my request to Paypal, so I expected them to have available 404.48 EUR + 380 EUR from my transfer: http://wstaw.org/m/2015/10/16/plasma-desktopfH9051.png http://wstaw.org/m/2015/10/16/plasma-desktopkK9051.png http://wstaw.org/m/2015/10/16/plasma-desktopOa9051.png http://wstaw.org/m/2015/10/16/plasma-desktopdC9051.png http://wstaw.org/m/2015/10 |
| 11:39.52 | edwin | will let you know if I receive a reply |
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| 12:17.54 | Kero | you know whose money that 404 eur is? Or did you put it on there yourself? |
| 12:18.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's the reminder of a ~5k that were not frozen, while the freeze applied to another ~38k |
| 12:19.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | I have no clue whatsoever whom this money belongs to |
| 12:19.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | well "belongs to" |
| 12:19.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | PP doesn't provide any per-payment info about the status |
| 12:19.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | not related to freeze anyway |
| 12:20.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2015/10/16/plasma-desktopdC9051.png is all I know |
| 12:21.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | and obviously every payment after that *is* frozen by idividual transaction listed by PP |
| 12:21.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2015/10/16/plasma-desktopOa9051.png |
| 12:22.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | I however can not tell of what consists that 33k amount frozen at 4. Sep 2015 |
| 12:23.52 | saper | those 5k are older transactions? |
| 12:23.56 | saper | if yes, how old? |
| 12:25.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | please see above |
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| 12:26.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | those 5k are older than 4. Sep 2015 - since they were the non-frozen remainder at that date. No further info |
| 12:27.24 | saper | "Starthilfe" looks like a bad transaction |
| 12:27.30 | saper | translation |
| 12:27.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not my translation |
| 12:28.06 | saper | I know :) |
| 12:28.30 | saper | but if you tab to July and August (maybe earlier?) what's the oldest one blocked? |
| 12:28.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | 4. Sep 2015 |
| 12:28.56 | saper | okay |
| 12:29.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | 33k |
| 12:30.08 | saper | I don't think I get it :) |
| 12:30.12 | saper | is 33k debit or credit? |
| 12:52.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | 33k is what PP froze initially, leaving ~5k unfrozen |
| 12:53.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's no payment |
| 12:54.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't worry when you find this puzzling. I do as well |
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| 14:34.09 | Kero | so it is possible my transfer to you from May 2015 is not actually frozen? |
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| 14:36.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, with a probability of 5000/(33000+5000) |
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| 14:57.38 | Kero | that gives me a weaker position to order paypal around. So I'll phrase my next mail slightly differently, and then that's probably going to be it (since I expect them to confirm -once more, in whatever choice of words it'll be this time- that you have access to my transfer, whether that is a lie or not). |
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| 15:24.16 | edwin | btw on Wifi vs FCC: http://fqcodel.bufferbloat.net/~d/fcc_saner_software_practices.pdf https://plus.google.com/u/0/events/cp7g87eq2g5fde8b8i5bn2p8oo0 http://www.bufferbloat.net/news/56 |
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| 19:14.45 | enyc | looks aronud having been away for a bit ;p |
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| 19:44.54 | ravelo | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:50.30 | ravelo | Anyone here? |
| 19:50.32 | ravelo | Hm |
| 19:51.21 | wpwrak | he's probably busy eating his weekly kill ;-) |
| 19:51.43 | ravelo | Hm |
| 19:52.59 | ravelo | I just found a very interesting article about alternative payment methods |
| 19:53.47 | ravelo | Wanted to discuss this with DocScrutinizer05 |
| 19:54.14 | ravelo | ... |
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| 19:56.03 | wpwrak | maybe post the link here ? he'll see it when he returns |
| 19:57.05 | wpwrak | in general, alternative payment methods tend to be tricky. first, because they can have their own quirks. second, because there seems to be a lot of fraudsters out there. |
| 19:59.01 | ravelo | Yes. I think i got a good understanding by reading thus site: |
| 19:59.06 | ravelo | http://www.digitalmarketer.com/paypal-vs-stripe-vs-merchant-account/ |
| 20:00.58 | ravelo | Neo900 is doing high risk business according to payment companies |
| 20:01.31 | ravelo | "Delivering the product in the future" is mentioned in this site as one criteria |
| 20:01.52 | wpwrak | i guess that's a fair assessment. not quite as risky as dealing with some financial instruments, but definitely riskier than a trip to the bakery |
| 20:02.07 | ravelo | Yes |
| 20:02.50 | wpwrak | "Failing to understand this difference has caused thousands of entrepreneurs to lose their businesses." encouraging :( |
| 20:02.54 | ravelo | And freezing accounts happens quite often. Especially but not even excliusvely |
| 20:03.05 | ravelo | With paypal |
| 20:05.28 | ravelo | If he really has access to 30% this might not even be so bad |
| 20:05.31 | ravelo | ..... |
| 20:07.16 | ravelo | I will read the logs in the meantime and talk to you next time. |
| 20:09.02 | ravelo | wpwrak btw great talks on ccc. Very interesting. Thanks |
| 20:16.02 | wpwrak | just read the article. that explains a lot, thanks ! paypal did indeed get nervous when we had the brief spike from the down payments |
| 20:17.13 | wpwrak | it would also suggest that paypal could release a good portion of the money within the next ~6 weeks. that's still pretty long, but may not be catastrophic |
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| 20:20.39 | wpwrak | access to 30% seems to work like this: we place an order, pre-pay for it, then send the invoice to paypal and hope 30% of the amount will be released. |
| 20:22.47 | wpwrak | alas, we don't have the common cost structure of 1/3 for production, 1/3 for sales and taxes, and 1/3 for r&d and profit, where such a 30% rule could work (depending on how reliably paypal release money, and whether there are large orders that would still exceed liquidity) |
| 20:25.17 | wpwrak | (ccc) thanks, glad you liked them ! :) |
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| 20:31.00 | wpwrak | and the root of all the PP problems seems to be the credit card dispute handling. whereas wire transfer are much less flexible and thus safer. |
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| 20:45.01 | Arch-TK | DocScrutinizer51: so why exactly do paypal hate small community projects? |
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| 20:48.27 | Arch-TK | Wire transfers don't seem to be all that scary ever since I made my downpayment. There was no charge but it seems like the exchange rate was a bit high (350 EUR turned into 270 GBP, should probably be more like 260) but 10 GBP isn't too bad. |
| 21:24.59 | wpwrak | *hmm* there's a company that calls itself "lumileds". they boldly claim that "For 100 years, Lumileds commitment to innovation has helped customers [...]" makes me wonder whether clairvoyance was involved when they chose that name, supposedly in 1915, some 12 years before the very first LED (and, according to wikipedia, largely ignored for the next few decades) was actually manufactured |
| 21:35.39 | Kero | lumileds is/was/again/stopped tracking/... affiliated/part of/separate/bought again/... with Philips Electronics, which is >100 years old. |
| 21:36.38 | wpwrak | heh, that works then |
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