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| 08:27.21 | enyc | thinks... goldendelicious payments troansferred to neo900 AG ... now need to be associated with new neo900 pre-order place somehow? |
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| 09:04.48 | quatrox | DocScrutinizer05: ping |
| 09:05.52 | Wizzup | enyc: didn't you get emails? |
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| 10:40.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: please provide details who transferred money how - when GDC transferred to Neo900 UG you ideally provide the GDC login URL. When you transferred money to UG, please provide date, amount and transfer subject |
| 10:40.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | quatrox: pong |
| 10:49.06 | quatrox | DocScrutinizer05: What happens if I don't wont the neo900 anyway? Can I just ignore the voucher? |
| 10:49.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 10:50.22 | quatrox | Because I am not sure that I have enough money for it and it is not directly cheap |
| 10:50.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | though we prefer and encourage people to find a _new_ owner who's interested and sell the voucher to him |
| 10:50.36 | quatrox | Aha |
| 10:50.47 | quatrox | I will check around |
| 10:51.29 | quatrox | When is the deadline? |
| 10:51.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | please see the voucher marketplace thread on tmo |
| 10:52.21 | quatrox | OK, I will :) Thanks |
| 10:52.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, there is no deadline, just chances that we can source late all the parts for a device get lower with every risk part we source |
| 10:53.12 | quatrox | But I thought that was why we payed the voucher |
| 10:53.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | first thing we'll source are the N900 for complete Neo900 devices |
| 10:54.03 | quatrox | Actually, I guess I should ask a colleague to buy his used N900 |
| 10:55.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((payed the voucher)) nope, that been used for R&D and _some_ risk parts. The average of "voucher" donations been ~130.- and we don't even know what to source, since some want NeoN bare board, some need a N900 for Neo900 |
| 10:56.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | the down payment we ask for now is for risk parts |
| 10:56.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the order itself is to determine exact amount we will order |
| 10:58.57 | quatrox | Only 130? |
| 10:59.00 | quatrox | Ohh |
| 10:59.21 | quatrox | Then I understand better |
| 11:06.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | so we need the vouchers to get converted into orders so we know what exactly to source, and we need the down payment (if voucher < down payment value) to actually do the sourcing |
| 11:07.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | the N900 will cost *us* at least 100 bucks, we ask for 130 from our customers so we have some reserve for customs etc |
| 11:08.16 | quatrox | How many orders have been registered at the moment? |
| 11:08.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | (480 Neo900 - 350 NeoN = 130 N900 diff) |
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| 11:08.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2015-06-20 Sat 20:34:40] <DocScrutinizer05> Neo900 DOWN PAYMENT Neo900 complete device -136 |
| 11:08.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2015-06-20 Sat 20:34:40] <DocScrutinizer05> NeoN DOWN PAYMENT NeoN bare board -66 |
| 11:08.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2015-06-20 Sat 20:34:40] <DocScrutinizer05> +1EUR Down Payment top up -7069 |
| 11:10.59 | quatrox | -136 means 136 more to go? |
| 11:11.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | so 50% of what we hoped for |
| 11:11.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, this is just prestashop listing a stock of -136 since stock started at 0 |
| 11:11.42 | quatrox | aha |
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| 11:12.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | it means 136 got sold so -136 are in stock |
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| 11:16.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | Neo900 modem variant distribution: http://wstaw.org/m/2015/06/21/plasma-desktopHl1947.png and here NeoN board: http://wstaw.org/m/2015/06/21/plasma-desktopSL1947.png |
| 11:18.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | note that the modem choice is not binding yet, we just do it for statistics for now, you can choose another modem variant in final order |
| 11:19.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | suspects that more customers will understand and appreciate the PXS8 over PHS8 |
| 11:20.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | then otoh, who *really* wants CMDA ;-) |
| 11:20.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | except that poor sods who live in USA |
| 11:21.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway CDMA and UMTS in one device is very unique feature |
| 11:22.29 | quatrox | Which one is PXS8? |
| 11:22.52 | quatrox | I try to map it to the charts you referred to |
| 11:23.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | UMTS+CDMA |
| 11:24.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | the smallest one |
| 11:24.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | "11:57 - 12:00" |
| 11:25.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | the super-set of "UMTS worldwide" PHS8 (08:00 - 11:57) |
| 11:30.46 | quatrox | Hmm.. you mean "11:30 - 12:00"? |
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| 11:39.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, sorry |
| 11:40.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | waiting for coffee to kick in. Sometimes it happens that I confuse large and small hand of clock |
| 11:40.33 | quatrox | Hahahahaha.... get yourself a binary watch instead :P |
| 11:40.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the problem: I got digital watches all around |
| 11:41.44 | quatrox | I still use analogue watches. I find them faster to read |
| 11:41.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | (not that I really had any problems with watches. I mean when I was born and even when I learned the watch face, it was more the time of electron tubes than the time of digital watches) |
| 11:42.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | heads out for a 2nd coffee |
| 11:45.39 | quatrox | DocScrutinizer05: Just move your chair next to the coffee machine ;) |
| 11:49.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | sommeranfang HAHAHAHA |
| 11:49.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~weather eddn |
| 11:50.11 | quatrox | I am sitting outside in the sun with a cold beer |
| 11:50.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | we had nicer xmas at times |
| 11:50.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I'm northern hemisphere |
| 11:50.45 | quatrox | I am in Norway |
| 11:51.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | i'm evidently too much down south |
| 11:51.25 | quatrox | Yes, it is strange |
| 11:51.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | 49-30N |
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| 15:55.19 | enyc_ | DocScrutinizer51: is american CDMA likely to ultimately be overtaken with LTE like elsewhere ?? |
| 15:55.51 | pigeons | yes |
| 15:56.05 | pigeons | i live in usa |
| 15:57.54 | pigeons | it coexists now but most carriers are LTE |
| 15:58.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | I have no idea tbh |
| 15:58.32 | enyc | A Zip / Postal code is required. |
| 15:58.38 | enyc | but i don't see a field for such!! |
| 15:58.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | USA is a mess, all carriers seem to not give anything about support for their customers' legacy devices |
| 15:59.34 | pigeons | ture that |
| 15:59.36 | pigeons | true |
| 15:59.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | and every carrier seems to think their users should use theie carrier's proprietary devices that support this unique combination of bands and RATs |
| 16:00.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: in login? |
| 16:00.17 | ccnnjj | You need javascript enabled to get the postal/zip code field. |
| 16:00.19 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: in registration |
| 16:00.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | err registrationà |
| 16:00.22 | pigeons | yes and you are not supposed to keep your device too long either |
| 16:00.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: see ccnnjj ^^^ |
| 16:00.54 | enyc | ccnnjj: ooo intreseting i thoguh i tad but needed reloading |
| 16:01.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | pigeons: exactly |
| 16:01.42 | enyc | how wasteful! |
| 16:01.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | poor US citizens are the slaves of the weird rogue carriers they got in USA |
| 16:02.16 | ccnnjj | (USA) T-Mobile's been pretty good, although they're legacy is much shorter than the others, since they started with GSM (by buying GSM operators) in the 90s. My GSM phones still work everywhre with T-Mobile's service that I've come across. |
| 16:02.29 | ccnnjj | While AT&T/Cingular/Whatever seem to be killing the GSM bands. |
| 16:02.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 16:02.56 | pigeons | yeah i use t-mobile lately with my n900, but i'm traveling and get network is busy for hours a day on the n900 in florida where the LTE phone works |
| 16:03.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | USA is absolutely mad, one hand they mandate stuff like E911 (GPS etc) in all phones, otoh they are not able to make carriers support interoperability |
| 16:04.08 | ccnnjj | In terms of special bands, that's less provider choice, than dealing with the landscape. Those were the bands that were available, and date back to US allotment and legacy. I agree, it sucks though. |
| 16:05.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | I would have thought GSM (2G) was a mandatory standard everywhere on this planet (except where CDMA) - but no. Seems in USA it's perfectly OK to support *only* LTE or whatever the carrier things will monetize best |
| 16:06.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | thinks* |
| 16:06.28 | *** join/#neo900 dal (~dal@37.252.227.85) |
| 16:07.03 | ccnnjj | I'm as surprised that AT&T is killing its GSM bands (moving them to new LTE spectrum) considering there have got to me GSM modems that are only around to send SMS messages. On the other hand, most of those are probably actually using Verizon's network and CDMA or something. |
| 16:07.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | t-mobile might have a slightly different more sane company culture, and thus will support "legacy" for a while even in USA |
| 16:07.58 | enyc | ccnnjj: hrrm LTE not used for SMS too ?? |
| 16:08.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw GSM and LTE are compatible on same frequency band afaik |
| 16:08.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | they *could* coexist |
| 16:08.25 | ccnnjj | T-Mobile also got a windfall when the AT&T buyout fell through. AT&T had to give them a bunch of UMTS (or LTE?) spectrum. |
| 16:08.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | *afaik* |
| 16:08.51 | ccnnjj | Interesting. Obviously not my field :) All the more surprising that AT&T seems to be (an announced) they were going to turn-off the GSM radios. |
| 16:09.02 | dos1 | here in Poland, my old Nokia 3410 still works and it doesn't seem like it will stop in foreseeable future |
| 16:09.42 | R0b0t1 | ccnnjj: GSM is less efficient. They're probably being cheap and trying to upgrade as little as possible, and that change is the cheapest |
| 16:09.43 | dos1 | unless it gets broken itself ;) |
| 16:09.44 | R0b0t1 | I mean idk for sure |
| 16:09.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | in EU at large I guess GSM is here to stay. Way too many legacy devices that use 2G only |
| 16:10.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | we have lots of telemetry on 2G. Like vending machines and whatnot |
| 16:11.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | and don't forget cars now, which recently got mandatory auto-911 calls on crashes |
| 16:11.59 | ccnnjj | (cars) yeah, a number of the (On-Star?) cars are apparently losing service because they used AT&T's GSM network |
| 16:12.02 | ccnnjj | in the US |
| 16:12.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 16:12.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | USA the land of infinite impossibilities |
| 16:13.44 | ccnnjj | Also, FWIW, US T-Mobile did say they were moving some capacity from GSM to ... UMTS? LTE? I don't recall because they were seeing so little usage in many areas. I haven't seen any announcement of it going away though,j ust shifting support. That makes sense to me. |
| 16:17.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | in europe you can use same modem from south to north and east to west, across all countries. USA doesn't manage to maintain interoperability between carriers in same region, or between regions a 50km distant from each other |
| 16:17.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's what free market has for you |
| 16:18.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | NIH at its finest |
| 16:18.54 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: not clear post-registration *how* to provide the extra information for GDC URL etc. that you previouly mentioned, only to order... |
| 16:18.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry we didn't find a single 11-band modem |
| 16:19.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: please send a email to contact @ neo900 org |
| 16:20.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: when your donation actually got transferred to Neo900 UG you should have received an email with your voucher code |
| 16:20.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | so odds are sth went haywire |
| 16:21.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | either your donation is still at GDC (you didn't ask for transfer to Neo900 UG), or your voucher mail didn't arrive |
| 16:24.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | please note that Neo900 UG and GDC are two distinct companies that don't share a common accounting at all |
| 16:25.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | GDC afaik sent ~4 mails asking you what to do with your donation. When you didn't answer a single one of them, odds are your donation is still rotting at GDC's account and Neo900 UG never heard of it |
| 16:27.48 | R0b0t1 | DocScrutinizer05: "The improbable we do today, the impossible tomorrow. Miracles by appointment only." |
| 16:28.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | not in USA though |
| 16:29.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | the land of freedom (to rip off and get ripped off) |
| 16:29.39 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: mine was definitely transferred, i've sent what i found so far, can look for further voucher emails etc too if needbe. |
| 16:29.56 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: do check email, i need to go put on huge pile of washing when i've found the laundry-card =) |
| 16:30.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | just send the URL we need to check your GDC account, and we'll sort it out |
| 16:30.24 | enyc | done already =) |
| 16:31.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: >>Refund done Neo900 UG 217.-<< I'll chack what went wrong |
| 16:31.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | check* |
| 16:31.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | you should have received a voucher mail |
| 16:33.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: your mail with voucher code got sent by us on 2015-05-18 Mon 01:16 |
| 16:33.43 | enyc | aha yes got it ;p |
| 16:34.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | great! :-) |
| 16:35.30 | enyc | sent, too =) |
| 16:35.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | Isent what? |
| 16:36.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | please see http://neo900.org/shop-walk-through/ |
| 16:37.35 | enyc | Ooooooooo i see |
| 16:37.36 | enyc | aha thankyou |
| 16:38.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 16:38.24 | enyc | are you getitng promising abounts of down-payments ? |
| 16:44.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | Neo900DOWN PAYMENT Neo900 complete device-136 |
| 16:44.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | NeoNDOWN PAYMENT NeoN bare board-66 |
| 16:44.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | +1EURDown Payment top up-7069 |
| 16:46.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: you might help us out on identifying why many voucher-code owners didn't respond at all yet |
| 16:47.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | we sent out ~430 voucher code mails |
| 16:48.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'd think people either make a swon payment or sell their vouchers or at least send a "sorry no longer interested" mail |
| 16:48.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/swon/down/ |
| 16:49.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | it seems it's pretty hard to reach a lot of our customers. Maybe you can help us identifying what's a possible reason for this |
| 16:49.41 | verblendet | thats what happened to the pandora, but finally they were sold out |
| 16:49.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 16:50.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas we have harsh constraints on the number of devices we can build. Based on how many risk parts we order *right now* |
| 16:51.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | unlike us iirc pandora went for 100% payment on preorder right away |
| 16:51.37 | verblendet | yes |
| 16:51.51 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: maybe it ''appears risky'' to some |
| 16:51.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | so even when they can't reach their customers anymore, they still can build devices for them |
| 16:52.01 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: uncertainty/confusion / 'taken a long time' ? |
| 16:52.19 | verblendet | but in case of pandora, i found this same from kind of misinformation to endusers |
| 16:52.30 | verblendet | or too less information |
| 16:52.50 | verblendet | s/same/came |
| 16:53.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | *nod* Pandora had abysmal communication. I really hope we can do better on that |
| 16:53.27 | verblendet | i also wanted my money back after waiting ~2 years |
| 16:53.52 | verblendet | i finally needed it for other projects... |
| 16:54.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | after 2 years the money been used for producing devices which turned out to be paperweights iirc |
| 16:55.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | the Nikolaus helped them out by building a new batch, using same facilities he used for GTA04 and we're planning to use for Neo900 |
| 16:55.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | then* |
| 16:56.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | my cloudy memory of the pandora story |
| 16:56.36 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: so... how to move on from there ?? |
| 16:56.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | YEEHAAA! NeoNDOWN PAYMENT NeoN bare board-67 |
| 16:57.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: for you? or for Neo900 UG? |
| 16:57.27 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: for neo900 and the missing voucher codes =) |
| 16:58.35 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: i like emails that say ACTION REQUIRED: -- but not to waffly either, mark it more around ... redeeming previous voucher rather than 'down payment' while that is obviously an improtnat part to explain ... Can you Clear/yquickly identify all the non-claimed vouchers ?? |
| 16:59.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | we'll try to reach out for all our customers another time, asking them to pretty please answer in any suitable form so we have a feedback what to assume will be the status of that device/order. And we will try to reach more new customers and for that we not only need to do more PR on "social media" but also will have a village on CCCAMP2015 |
| 17:00.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, yep, we probably can identify the unused vouchers |
| 17:00.37 | enyc | do that =) |
| 17:00.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks for the hint about "ACTION REQUIRED" |
| 17:00.47 | enyc | and work out how to scale down the critical information |
| 17:00.51 | enyc | and bounce example mail off a few first or so |
| 17:01.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: wpwrak: ^^^^ |
| 17:02.48 | enyc | What are the key ares of *development/assembly/softaware* risks after the 'risk parts' sorted out ?? |
| 17:02.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: I wonder if it would be too bad to send the reminder mail to _all_ our customers and have a "please ignore this mail if you already acted on our last one" |
| 17:03.26 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: not too bad i suspect, but better you get organized if possible |
| 17:03.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | each such process is prone to errors |
| 17:03.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | so I'd rather re-use the original mailing list |
| 17:04.23 | enyc | there should be an automated way... |
| 17:04.32 | enyc | i suppose this is all about the fact you are now ''creating accounts'' ... |
| 17:04.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | in prestashop nothing is automated |
| 17:04.50 | enyc | and some haven't created an account, some haven't redeemed voucher, ... |
| 17:05.01 | enyc | some may not have used original email address |
| 17:06.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway sorry afk, need some 90min for social and biological requirements |
| 17:15.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | wait! "scale down info"?! The voucher code email has a scarce 94 words, incl voucher code |
| 17:16.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's probably rather a problem of *too few* info in the voucher mail |
| 17:17.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | the generic newsletter mail (as of http://neo900.org/shop-letter ) maybe was too much info to clearly state "NEEDS YOUR ACTION" |
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| 17:18.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: please elaborate on what exactly was the info we should scale down, or what to change in the mails at large |
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| 17:26.20 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: I'm actually not 100% sure tbh but general princeples there to think about and bounce examples off... |
| 17:26.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | on a sidenote: German MdB (congress) sore their cellphones in fridge or microwave oven now ;-P |
| 17:26.32 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: I *think* a short summary segregated at top would be helpful |
| 17:27.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: yep, I think the 94 words voucher mail should get resent and augmented by a terse "ACTION NEEDED! Q:What's this? A: please see...." |
| 17:28.24 | enyc | yes -- and make it about redeeming your voucher now!! |
| 17:28.37 | enyc | rather than "about" downpayment directly |
| 17:28.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/please see/redeem your voucher and secure your device, see.../ |
| 17:28.48 | enyc | yes you get the idea... |
| 17:28.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 17:29.02 | enyc | and also do what you can to sort out how you can more automatcially tell what vouchers are unclaimed |
| 17:29.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | we can, but it still needs lots of manual work to export this to a csv, and then prepare a bulk mail from it |
| 17:30.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | since the vouchers themselves have to reliable email addr in them anymore |
| 17:31.58 | enyc | dho what you can within reason to sort out an unclaimed-list |
| 17:32.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm I guess we could grep out the *used* vouchers from the complete bulk mail addr list |
| 17:32.09 | enyc | not sure what you can'can't disclose etc |
| 17:32.21 | enyc | yes i was wondering something like that |
| 17:32.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | this would be all vouchers that have "available qty: 0" |
| 17:33.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | the unused are qty:1 |
| 17:34.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas we have no voucher EXport in prestashop, so even this needs manual work |
| 17:34.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc |
| 17:35.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think I already prepared a SQL query that would provide almost what we need for this |
| 17:35.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: thanks a lot! |
| 17:35.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | o/ bbl |
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| 20:20.27 | AndrewX192 | well, maybe it is time to order that neo900 |
| 20:20.56 | AndrewX192 | or at least by end of june |
| 20:42.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
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