IRC log for #neo900 on 20150415

00:16.14*** join/#neo900 arossdotme (~zxy@85.210.98.14)
00:40.25*** join/#neo900 Beaches (matt@devnull.blackhatsecurity.org)
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05:07.21freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: ok, going to try to boot it
05:09.06freemangordonit is alive again :)
05:13.33freemangordonand it hangs short after I have u-boot prompt
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05:46.29*** join/#neo900 Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali)
06:13.44*** join/#neo900 DocScrutinizer05 (~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg)
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06:14.02PaliDocScrutinizer05: Hi, IIRC in some RFC or BCP is written that only text/plain format of emails should be implemented by all clients... Do you know it? where it could be? I'm trying to find out if really html only emails violates some standards... because I think yes!
06:15.40freemangordonPali: http://pastebin.com/WGjvpgnY :)
06:15.52PaliI read email
06:16.05freemangordonoh, yeah, I forgot you got those mails too
06:16.10freemangordon:)
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07:42.54drathirits happen nokia buy alcatel...
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11:06.01*** join/#neo900 mvaenskae (~mvaenskae@unaffiliated/mvaenskae)
11:27.25DocScrutinizer51Pali: sorry was offline, no idea why. I don't know of any such RFC re html email
11:27.43DocScrutinizer51pleae see my mail signature
11:38.54bencohPali: you might be referring to rfc822, but html didnt exist back then :)
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13:17.11freemangordon_DocScrutinizer05: did you see my mail where I read and write to onenand successfuly?
13:17.25DocScrutinizer05sure
13:17.51DocScrutinizer05did you see my mail I sent 5 min ago?
13:17.56freemangordon_do you want me to perform more testing?
13:17.57freemangordon_yes
13:18.04freemangordon_but that's what Nik did :)
13:18.43freemangordon_I could try to write u-boot to onenand
13:19.10freemangordon_to see if it will boot it
13:19.18DocScrutinizer05freemangordon_: could you for example load a matching xloader to RAM via kermit or whatever and then write the complete xloader to the right addr in NAND?
13:19.31DocScrutinizer05hey! :-D
13:19.35DocScrutinizer05beaten me to it
13:20.06freemangordon_:)
13:20.21freemangordon_ok, will try to write xloader. later on, when I am back home
13:20.28DocScrutinizer05:-D
13:21.05DocScrutinizer05just fights with a UPS which is detected by dang linux as HIDraw
13:21.56freemangordon_do you have NUT installed?
13:22.24DocScrutinizer05http://privatepaste.com/f0f7e92ed0
13:22.50DocScrutinizer05http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/nut-upsuser/2013-April/008351.html  nope I don't have anything special installed yet
13:23.20freemangordon_anyway, I am back to work :)
13:24.34DocScrutinizer05o/
13:24.51DocScrutinizer05what's NUT? is it recommended to install it?
13:24.58DocScrutinizer05freemangordon_: ^^^
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13:34.23freemangordon_DocScrutinizer05: http://www.networkupstools.org/
13:34.31DocScrutinizer05ta
13:35.02DocScrutinizer05however I'm afraid I need to clean out some bogus entry in udev database
13:36.02DocScrutinizer050003:0665:5161.000F is a generic USB-serial converter not necessarily a HID device
13:36.12DocScrutinizer05evidence: this UPS
13:36.49DocScrutinizer05seems udev tries to configure a HID which fails and results in USB eject event
13:37.13DocScrutinizer05now if only I knew how systemd fscked up udev db
13:47.27keriorofl
13:48.03keriowhen everything is systemd, all the problems are caused by systemd
13:48.39DocScrutinizer05actually this time it seems systemd-udevd behaves identical to udev ?
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15:20.06freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: could you release the USER button, so I can test if what I've flashed to onenand actually works
15:21.20DocScrutinizer05the ROMBOOT will fal back to OneNAND after 3 seconds of listening to serial/USB
15:21.33freemangordonhmm, ok
15:21.39freemangordondoesn't work then :)
15:22.12freemangordonlets see if uboot will read back what I wrote afte the reset
15:23.24freemangordonwell, it is there
15:23.37*** join/#neo900 che11 (~che@g250.tum.vpn.lrz.de)
15:23.45freemangordonmaybe my entry point address is wrong
15:25.26freemangordonwell, shouldn't be, BL is supposed to read it from the start of the image
15:26.29freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: are you sure the current SYSBOOT have onenand boot enabled?
15:26.40DocScrutinizer05quite, yes
15:26.58DocScrutinizer05anyway I can remove the paperclip but it's a PITA to re-install it
15:27.27freemangordonas I am sure there is xloader in flash
15:27.47freemangordonwell...
15:27.56freemangordonlemme first try something
15:28.04freemangordondo not remove the clip for now
15:28.08DocScrutinizer05unpressed USER
15:28.16DocScrutinizer05sory too late
15:28.17freemangordonok :)
15:28.23freemangordongoing to reset
15:29.19freemangordonok, no signs of life, you may put the paperclip back, sorry :)
15:29.44DocScrutinizer05np, I found out it's of conveient strength so the switch is bistable
15:30.08DocScrutinizer05USER pressed
15:30.30freemangordonthanks
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15:52.16DocScrutinizer05on a sidenote: after depressing experiences with NUT, I installed ViewPower and iked the UPS via freshly purchased USB<->RS232 adapter ;-) Works fine
15:54.57DocScrutinizer05s/iked/linked/
15:56.40*** join/#neo900 che1 (~che@h037.tum.vpn.lrz.de)
16:01.46dos1wow, great progress! \o/
16:07.34freemangordonhmm, ok, I have xloader flashed in nand, for sure, but it won't boot
16:09.20freemangordonI guess we'll need CHFLASH section in image
16:20.40wpwraklooks very good indeed now.
16:21.13wpwrak(just finished catching up with the mails, while the gas workers are taking a break ...)
16:24.15freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: from the TRM :( http://pastebin.com/QFDCfbiY
16:24.27freemangordonwhy is should be easy :)
16:24.58freemangordonNAND:  Muxed OneNAND 512MB 1.8V 16-bit (0x50) OneNAND version = 0x0232 Chip support all block unlock Chip has 4KiB pagesize
16:25.13freemangordon*Chip has 4KiB pagesize*
16:26.24wpwraklovely ...
16:27.02freemangordonyeah
16:28.19wpwraklemme see where this is ...
16:29.10wpwrakah good, only for boot. not so nasty then.
16:30.48DocScrutinizer05weird
16:32.42wpwraklazy programmers :)
16:32.58DocScrutinizer05BOOTROM? yeah maybe
16:33.47wpwrakin any case, don't look like more than an inconvenience. boot loader binary will need some "padding" and i guess that's all
16:34.51wpwraknice find with the u-boot arguments, by the way. how i love that critter :)
16:35.06dos1we can hide some secret message in the padding ;>
16:35.57kerio"FUCKSYSD"
16:36.04dos1:D
16:37.37wpwraki can already see a major contribution from kerio coming. it's good that we also have a place for this special talent ;-)
16:38.09kerioi can't offer much else :(
16:38.14DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2015/04/15/plasma-desktopzv1901.png  http://wstaw.org/m/2015/04/15/plasma-desktopfp1901.png  *coughcough*
16:38.19keriono money, no experience in dealing with embedded stuff
16:38.26DocScrutinizer05dos1: nice idea indeed
16:38.42keriothe most i can offer is some VMs on a hetzner server
16:38.49keriobut, you kno
16:38.54kerio*know
16:39.40DocScrutinizer05why Hetzner, aren't you Italian?
16:39.57DocScrutinizer05does Italy not have decent hosters?
16:40.04DocScrutinizer05:-)
16:40.42kerio1) probably not
16:40.46kerio2) i'm not actually paying for it :>
16:40.55wpwrakberlusconi.net.it ? :)
16:41.08DocScrutinizer05good, and yes that's probably really right
16:41.26kerioright now it's not even on a .it domain
16:41.31keriohttps://nethack.xd.cm/
16:41.39DocScrutinizer05.cm??
16:41.45kerioit's like com but cooler
16:41.48kerioi dunno, it's not mine
16:42.08kerioit's deepy's
16:42.09DocScrutinizer05~tld .cm
16:42.14kerioit's like cameroon or something
16:42.21DocScrutinizer05~wiki tld .cm
16:42.28kerio~wiki .cm
16:42.40keriomy fucking god
16:42.47kerioinfobot: you're useless
16:42.47infobotACTION starts crying and hides from kerio in the darkest corner of the room. :(
16:42.54kerioaww :c
16:42.55kerio~botsnack
16:42.55infobotthanks, kerio
16:43.00kerionp
16:43.35DocScrutinizer05.cm is the country code top-level domain (ccTLD) for Cameroon.
16:43.54wpwrakhas a weird whois entry
16:44.10kerioanyway, i helped him set up some shit
16:44.13wpwrak"Registrant Name: Camtel | ANTIC l Legacy-Escrow"
16:44.20wpwrak"Domain Status: inactive"
16:44.22kerioso i have root
16:44.41keriowpwrak: at least you're getting something
16:44.45DocScrutinizer05waves and goes afk for an hour
16:44.45keriowhois: cm.whois-servers.net: nodename nor servname provided, or not known
16:45.01kerioanyway, we have a fancy setup with qemu-kvm+libvirt
16:45.10kerioand by fancy i mean pretty shit
16:45.15keriobut it works
16:45.30keriolibvirt is so goddamn awkward
16:45.56DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: does that 4096/2 apply only for "xloader" - read: the stuff that ROMBOOT loads?
16:47.01DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: also I think sth is *very* buggy in uBoot
16:47.30freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: yes, BR only
16:47.35freemangordonnaah, uboot os fine
16:47.36DocScrutinizer05gooood
16:47.36kerioalso, ipv6 is fucking cheating
16:48.07freemangordonyou just need to feed him the correct data (uboot)
16:48.36DocScrutinizer05why doesn't it rwad/write chunks < NNNNNNN bytes?
16:49.16DocScrutinizer05I mean, only 4096 was a reasonable lower limit for chunk size
16:49.17kerioDocScrutinizer05: do you want a vm
16:49.32DocScrutinizer05kerio: tanks, not needed right now
16:49.38DocScrutinizer05thanks even
16:50.01DocScrutinizer05you could offer one to devuan
16:50.04DocScrutinizer05;-)
16:50.20keriowould they appreciate an ipv6-only thing
16:50.21DocScrutinizer05they are searching for jenkins slaves
16:50.32DocScrutinizer05I guess that's irrelevant
16:51.05DocScrutinizer05build-slave
16:51.26DocScrutinizer05master needs to know about IP anyway, no matter if v6 or v4
16:51.45DocScrutinizer05last build took them 3 days
16:51.49dos1as long as their master talks ipv6 it should be fine afaik
16:52.24DocScrutinizer05>> FYI and to sync a bit on progress, Nextime is completing a total rebuild of all packages for all target architectures via our CI. it took at least 3 days for that, phew.<<
16:52.54kerioidk if we can spare that many cpu cycles actually
16:53.00DocScrutinizer05/join #devuan  ping nextime
16:53.18kerio(also i have to ask the actual server owner for something like this i guess)
16:53.25*** join/#neo900 rjeffries (~rjeffries@pool-108-40-199-126.snloca.fios.verizon.net)
16:53.33DocScrutinizer05well, CPU is the only thing they're really interested in, storage and BW are modest
16:54.16merlin1991Hm i should utilize my server for stuff like that, it's super idle
16:54.22DocScrutinizer05I suggested to maemo aka wikiwide already, also to techstaff head warfare
16:54.42kerioyeah it's mostly idle here as well
16:54.54keriobut sometimes i want to compile shit
16:54.57keriowith make -j20
16:55.04keriobecause i can :>
16:55.17DocScrutinizer05look at THIS:  http://monitor.maemo.org/ganglia/
16:55.27freemangordonYAAAAAY, IT BOOTS FROM ONENAND
16:55.30freemangordon:D:D:D
16:55.34DocScrutinizer05YEEEEEHAAAAA
16:55.56DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: did I recently mention you're the greatest?
16:56.14DocScrutinizer05stares at BB_pimped
16:56.35freemangordonyeah, and did you see I replied with "I know" :P
16:56.38DocScrutinizer05looks so innocent ;-D
16:56.45bencoh:D
16:56.52dos1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykGvsUJqqE4
16:56.55merlin1991freemangordon: where do i need to drive to buy you a beer? :)
16:57.09bencohfreemangordon: what did you do to make it boot, btw ?
16:58.04keriofreemangordon: i'll suck your dick
16:58.05keriono homo
16:58.23bencohhow classy
16:58.25keriowe want logs btw
16:58.41keriohow far does it get in the boot process?
16:58.47keriolike, can you get a shell
16:58.58dos1I think it's µblog-post worthy :)
16:59.05freemangordonbencoh: padded xloader on every 2048 bytes, then flashed the result via u-boot
16:59.06bencoh+1
16:59.13bencohoh
16:59.20freemangordonkerio: in u-boot, if you load it via serial
16:59.33freemangordonload u-boot that is
16:59.52DocScrutinizer05dos1: go ahead, there's already a tmo post to refer to ;-)
17:00.06keriocan you check if all the ram works
17:00.13keriofrom uboot
17:00.28kerioor is this still the normal bb
17:01.02freemangordonkerio: on the board I have access to, the 1GB ram does not work
17:01.18DocScrutinizer05kerio: it seems this is a board that might have HW flaws with the 1GB RAM
17:01.52DocScrutinizer05the other pimped one is in Munich and Nik hacking away on it
17:02.11DocScrutinizer05that other one has 1GB RAM working but NAND is unclear
17:02.48DocScrutinizer05kerio: we already seen linux booting into 1GB RAM on the other BB_pimped
17:02.53keriok
17:03.34DocScrutinizer05so we right now have one board with 1GB RAM and one board with 512MB OneNAND and booting from that
17:03.44DocScrutinizer05well, halfway
17:04.02DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: next step uBoot? ;-)
17:05.04bencoh:)
17:05.11DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: please already allow for sufficiently large partition for uBoot (+kernel) ;-)
17:05.45DocScrutinizer05so we don't run into similar size-limit problems like with maemo uBoot
17:06.01freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: do we really need that on this stage?
17:06.04DocScrutinizer05I mean, we got 512MB NAND now
17:06.55DocScrutinizer05we don't need that, it's just a thing to keep in mind when deciding about a random number for an addr-level to flash e.g. kernel to
17:07.03freemangordonooh, sure
17:07.24kerioi thought that was just a convention
17:07.27kerionot something hardcoded somewhere
17:07.46DocScrutinizer05it *is+ hardcoded in xoader or NOLO/uBoot
17:07.54freemangordonanyway, I think I did some good job today and deserve to have some whiskey time int the bar :D
17:08.19freemangordonnight guys, bbl
17:08.19DocScrutinizer05NOLO passing ATAGs about MTD partitions to kernel
17:08.32keriofreemangordon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX42_3ZKv8c
17:08.39DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: ENJOY!!
17:08.58DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: send the invoice for the wisky to Neo900 UG ;-)
17:09.05kerioDocScrutinizer05: yeah but the kernel can just ignore those
17:09.09keriofrom the cmdline, even
17:09.11kerioand so does uboot
17:09.25freemangordonhmm, doesn't seem to work after power-cycle :(
17:09.45DocScrutinizer05kerio: it doesn't matter what kernel can ignore when the actual partitioning in NAND doesn't match
17:09.47keriogo drink your whiskey, deal with this tomorrow
17:10.10kerioDocScrutinizer05: that was what i was confused about - i thought NAND didn't really have a partition table
17:10.16freemangordonshit! my ssh session got disconnected, that is why there was nothing :D
17:10.20kerioROFL
17:10.28DocScrutinizer05kerio: exactly, it doesn't
17:10.40bencoh:D
17:10.43DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: hehe, good
17:10.45kerioso what xloader believes doesn't really matter
17:10.52dos1oh those naugthy ssh sessions!
17:10.54kerioit's what uboot and then the kernel believe
17:11.08bencohfreemangordon: looks like your router drank all your whiskey
17:11.18DocScrutinizer05kerio: please grow a brain! when there's no room on NAND then you can't flash a larger uBoot
17:11.36DocScrutinizer05I asked for leaving enough room to allow uBoot to grow eventually
17:11.55bencohactually ... do we really want combined uboot+kernel ?
17:11.56keriooh, in fmg's mind
17:12.05keriolike
17:12.09kerioin the minds of the developers
17:12.13DocScrutinizer05bencoh: prolly not
17:12.29keriobecause nothing in the future ROM will depend on hardcoded values, other than the address of uboot itself
17:12.36freemangordonyeah, everything works fine, bb
17:12.37bencoh(anyway, neo900 shouldnt want or care about any of this ;)
17:12.41kerioyay ^_^
17:12.47bencoh\o/
17:13.10keriobencoh: definetely not
17:13.19keriobut that's already possible
17:16.31DocScrutinizer05guys, all I asked for was to leave some gap after uBoot (yet to get done) when flashing a linux rootfs to NAND (yet to be done)
17:17.13DocScrutinizer05or rather kernel
17:17.21keriowhy kernel
17:17.36DocScrutinizer05because that's the next thing needed after uBoot
17:17.38keriowe could be real people
17:17.43kerioand boot a kernel stored in /boot
17:17.56kerioin a extfs partition
17:18.07kerioer
17:18.08kerioubi
17:18.08DocScrutinizer05well, we for sure could do this, I dunno if uBoot can do this
17:18.20keriomy n900 boots a kernel stored on the emmc
17:18.23kerioon vfat
17:18.26keriobut that's probably easier
17:18.38DocScrutinizer05uBoot only knows vfat afaik
17:18.41kerioistr that ubifs support wasn't added in because of space issues
17:18.46dos1ext as well
17:18.54keriodos1: can it do ubifs
17:18.56kerioor jffs2
17:19.02DocScrutinizer05no
17:19.03dos1but I don't think it knows mtd based filesystems
17:19.20keriouboot can do ubi
17:19.30DocScrutinizer05that's why there's a mtb "kernel" partition
17:19.35DocScrutinizer05mtd even
17:19.46keriothere's a mtd kernel partition because it's the simplest solution
17:19.50kerionot because it's the best solution
17:19.58DocScrutinizer05aha
17:20.07kerioit makes it really awkward to have multiple kernels installed in parallel, for instance
17:20.17DocScrutinizer05whatever, for my request that's pretty much 100% irrelevant
17:20.21kerioyeah yeah
17:20.26kerio"be mindful that uboot could grow"
17:20.58DocScrutinizer05yeah, for example when it needs to learn ubifs
17:21.55keriovotes for a jffs2 partition
17:22.33DocScrutinizer05why?
17:22.50keriowell, maybe even ubifs
17:22.51DocScrutinizer05jffs2 afaik got 'obsoleted' by ubi
17:22.53keriobut a separate partition
17:22.53bencohyeah, why ?
17:25.15DocScrutinizer05since we're for sure not going to flash an original FIASCO image to Neo900, we are free to clean up quite a number of quirks in fremantle that never been cleaned up due to backward compatibility reasons. Like e.g. optification
17:25.38DocScrutinizer05~optification
17:25.38infobotoptification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,  http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"
17:25.39keriolike the preinit bullshit
17:25.49DocScrutinizer05no, that is pretty fixed
17:26.14keriohave you seen the shit that goes on there
17:26.27DocScrutinizer05unless you want to fork from maemo mainline
17:26.28keriothat could be fixed by having a goddamn bootloader and a sane partitioning
17:27.07DocScrutinizer05the guys able to fix that are in maemo-cssu
17:27.16kerioare you seriously doing this just so backupmenu will work without any modification
17:27.31DocScrutinizer05when they finally roll out a maemo5.99 version
17:28.11*** join/#neo900 Kabouik (~quassel@65.76.93.92.rev.sfr.net)
17:28.12DocScrutinizer05no, i'm doing this so maemo userland stays compatible
17:28.25DocScrutinizer05not limited to backupmenu
17:28.44keriostuff that relies on unspecified behaviour can just get fixed
17:28.54keriolike editing /sbin/preinit in preinstall/postinstall
17:29.00*** join/#neo900 Openbot (~Panda@112.79.36.72)
17:29.04kerioi suppose we could just have a real hook there
17:29.06DocScrutinizer05you're free to fork maemo and roll your own distro
17:29.08kerioto run bootmenu
17:29.20Openbotcool progress
17:29.21kerioi'll fork ur face :V
17:29.35kerioseriously, where does the backwards compatibility reach?
17:29.44kerioright now a bunch of stuff relies on **exact content** of system files
17:30.03kerioto add or edit line
17:30.04kerios
17:30.14DocScrutinizer05to the point where +every* app in maemo extras is installable to Neo900 without any recompiling ot fixing
17:30.26Openbot~wiki onenand
17:30.50Openbotduh
17:31.40bencohhttp://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/doc/onenand.html
17:31.52kerioDocScrutinizer05: what about the stuff that relies on the broken partitioning?
17:32.00Openbotthx bencoh
17:32.02DocScrutinizer05which is?
17:32.24kerioor relies on the partitioning in general
17:32.29DocScrutinizer05which is?
17:32.36kerioflopswap and similar
17:32.42DocScrutinizer05meh
17:32.48keriouboot-flasher
17:32.52keriokernel-power-flasher
17:32.55DocScrutinizer05flopswap will just work
17:33.03DocScrutinizer05U mad
17:33.08keriosomad
17:33.36DocScrutinizer05suggests to kerio to flash WinCE kernel
17:33.52bencohqnx!
17:34.29DocScrutinizer05honestly kernel-power-flasher isn't an *app+, by any metrics
17:34.38keriobootmenu is not an app either
17:34.43kerioit doesn't have an icon
17:34.54DocScrutinizer05pfff
17:35.12kerio(the actual solution would be to just include bootmenu in the main distro)
17:35.28DocScrutinizer05heads out using his time in better ways
17:35.39kerioi win :D
17:35.48bencohmeh >_<
17:35.54kerioendurance is important
17:36.07DocScrutinizer05trolling not, though
17:36.11bencohit's not friday
17:36.12keriobootmenu is deep in the realm of booting the system
17:36.28DocScrutinizer05kerio: I'm feeling kick-happy
17:36.28kerioand that's definetely fptf's realm
17:36.55DocScrutinizer05sorry, that's nonsense. bootmenu is a userland app
17:36.57keriokick me if you want, but keeping /sbin/preinit as is just to keep the current bootmenu setup is stupid
17:37.00keriohell no
17:37.06kerioit runs BEFORE INIT
17:37.21DocScrutinizer05so what?
17:37.34kerioit's akin to running an initrd
17:37.44keriothat shit's not userland by any means
17:37.46DocScrutinizer05again, you're free to fork maemo and run your own distro
17:38.03DocScrutinizer05or go pester CSSU guys about that preinit stuff
17:38.14DocScrutinizer05FPTF is not about fixing maemo
17:38.47Openbotthings like bootmenu should be inbuilt
17:39.01DocScrutinizer05Openbot: same applies to you
17:39.21Openbotooo what ??
17:39.37DocScrutinizer05fix it in maemo and maybe FPTF will adopt the patches
17:40.01Openbotah that
17:40.37DocScrutinizer05goal of FPTF maemo is to stay as close to stock maemo as possible, NOT to fix stuff that didn't get fixed in stock for one reason or another
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17:41.19DocScrutinizer05such approach would be pretty poettering
17:42.06bencohno insult please ;p
17:42.21bencoh(just kidding)
17:42.30DocScrutinizer05~poettering
17:42.30infobot'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'', or you look here for Linus' notion on what's poettering: http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01331.html, or http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01488.html, or see ~systemd cabal
17:42.32Openbotwhy not a maemo mainline like mainline kernel from where maemo canbe built in future
17:42.51kerio/sbin/preinit is part of the boot process; bootmenu adds code to /sbin/preinit => bootmenu is part of the boot process
17:43.17DocScrutinizer05kerio: stop it now
17:43.40DocScrutinizer05sbin/preinit is off topic in this channel
17:45.28keriono it's not, but apparently disagreeing with you is
17:45.31kerioso fuck you
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17:45.37DocScrutinizer05since it doesn't introduce incompatibilities to other hw platforms, thus FPTF won't touch it
17:45.58DocScrutinizer05ohmy
17:46.54DocScrutinizer05one German politician once said to guys leaving parliament: "who's leaving the room has to enter again later on"
17:46.56Openboti posted ~pottering in #systemd to ask why
17:47.07DocScrutinizer05Openbot: sorry?
17:47.37DocScrutinizer05Openbot: are you trying to replace kerio now?
17:49.43DocScrutinizer05why would we be interested what you posted in #systemd or any other unrelated channel?
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17:50.26Openbotno man i am just a stupid troll keiro is a smart one that also comes with a brain
17:50.52DocScrutinizer05nevertheless a suggestion: rather ask in #debianfork or #devuan, they will have a more enlightening answer
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17:52.11Openbotthey will ban i know that kind strictly not allowed
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17:56.17Openbotseems like they have become tolerant smart and wise no potteringmthem
17:56.38Openbotc ya all later
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20:38.01dos1gosh, these conterfeit n900 cases are so crappy :(
20:38.49dos1bought one white and one brown some time ago
20:38.51DocScrutinizer05are they?
20:38.56DocScrutinizer05ok
20:39.14dos1interesingly, received two white and one black
20:39.37DocScrutinizer05yeah, that's what I thought, might be some work to find a supplier of quality ones
20:40.07dos1white ones don't have black stripe on camera shutter door, so n900 thinks its open all the time
20:40.25DocScrutinizer05I guess they also often lack a lot of essential little things like magnets, buttons etc
20:40.40DocScrutinizer05oh, or that
20:41.30dos1but I have to say that combination of black and white parts looks pretty cool: http://dosowisko.net/n900bw/20090101_003.jpg :D
20:41.31DocScrutinizer05I wonder how good they are with those internal mechano-electrical things like e.g. the GND lever springs etc
20:41.56DocScrutinizer05yeah, looks nice
20:42.21dos1anyway, it's good that I got two whites
20:42.38dos1already managed to break the spring in camera door in one of them :P
20:42.54DocScrutinizer05honestly I'm very happy when we finally sourced NNN refurbished original N900 incl antennas and magnets and buttons and springs and slider mech and LCD and digitizer and...
20:43.28dos1btw. the black one feels crappy in touch
20:43.36DocScrutinizer05:-(
20:43.42dos1white one otoh feels pretty good
20:44.51dos1black one however has white stripe, so camera door works
20:45.54DocScrutinizer05do they have magnets?
20:45.56dos1(however, I've broken it as well to put it onto white one, so it would have black window around white body, but failed :D)
20:46.29dos1I'm checking if the backcover triggers µsd (u)mount right now
20:46.45DocScrutinizer05for the black/white stripe you better use simple sticky tape or felt pen
20:46.52dos1I just have to find some sd card in mess on my desk
20:47.05dos1black marker wasn't enough
20:47.13DocScrutinizer05why not watch the sys/ node?
20:47.35DocScrutinizer05(black marker) prolly not black in IR
20:47.58dos1if you can quickly point me to the correct sys node, then why not
20:48.06DocScrutinizer05mompls
20:50.34DocScrutinizer05sorry can't find it in /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch
20:50.44DocScrutinizer05it's prolly under mmc somewhere
20:51.22dos1well, already found a card
20:51.47dos1black one works, white one doesn't
20:53.11dos1where is that magnet placed?
20:55.38DocScrutinizer05in the middle bottom of the U shaped groove where the stand rests
20:55.58DocScrutinizer05only thing I can provide for now is Apr 15 22:53:50 IroN900 kernel: [50955.659118] mmc0: cover is open, card is now inaccessible
20:56.45dos1oh, so that's the magnet!
20:56.48dos1yeah, clearly missing in the white ones
20:57.07DocScrutinizer05<PROTECTED>
20:57.35dos1there's just an empty place for it
20:58.14dos1in the black one, there's a silverish rectangle there
20:58.15DocScrutinizer05watch cat /sys/class/mmc_host/mmc0/cover_switch
20:58.33DocScrutinizer05yes, that's magnet
20:58.43dos1yes, works with black one, doesn't with white ones
20:58.50dos1already tested by observing dmesg
20:59.20DocScrutinizer05keep it for next time ;-)
20:59.46dos1anyway, pretty easy to distingush original black with that copied black
20:59.55dos1there's a bit different font on camera door
21:00.05dos1magnet is silverish instead of black
21:00.21DocScrutinizer05now as long as there *is+ a magnet
21:00.24DocScrutinizer05;-)
21:01.08dos1the same with that little metalish part on inside side
21:01.25DocScrutinizer05luckily Neo900 won't depend on magnet anymore, but nevertheless...
21:01.49dos1inside side of camera door is black instead of blue (but in white one it's blue)
21:02.12dos1and there aren't as many "markings" on the inside side as with original
21:02.20DocScrutinizer05well, that's also not really a problem
21:03.00dos1sure, it's not, just spotting the differences ;)
21:03.04DocScrutinizer05do they come with all the buttons and rubber mats and stuff?
21:03.26DocScrutinizer05and how are speakers fixed?
21:03.47dos1haven't tried to put the board inside main housing yet
21:04.01dos1there are buttons
21:04.24DocScrutinizer05stylus fixing lever spring?
21:05.00DocScrutinizer05DS sticky rubber foam rings for fixing the speakers?
21:05.05dos1let me find some loose original housing first
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21:05.32dos1there is some sticky rubber sheet with cut shapes
21:05.39DocScrutinizer05cool
21:05.44dos1like stickers
21:07.27dos1of course antennas are just plastic fillers
21:08.26DocScrutinizer05thought as much ;-P
21:08.52DocScrutinizer05figure a less savvy user swaping case and then wondering what's on
21:09.11DocScrutinizer05pathetic
21:09.40DocScrutinizer05they really could have copied the sticky paper with copper trace
21:09.59DocScrutinizer05it's really not more than just that
21:10.17DocScrutinizer05prolly with a bit of skills you can DIY it
21:11.45DocScrutinizer05even leaving out the antennas completely would have served their customers better than delivering dummies
21:13.56dos1there are plastic parts for speakers
21:14.33DocScrutinizer05plastic parts??
21:15.11DocScrutinizer05sounds nasty
21:18.43dos1http://dosowisko.net/n900bw/20150415_001.jpg
21:18.49dos1http://dosowisko.net/n900bw/20150415_002.jpg
21:21.18dos1stylus level spring looks the same
21:21.50dos1lever*
21:22.08dos1anything else worth looking at?
21:46.09DocScrutinizer05sorry been afk
21:46.42DocScrutinizer05well, I don't think I know anything more that's worth looking at, right now
21:46.50DocScrutinizer05IR window maybe
21:47.11DocScrutinizer05might easily be fake or non-existent
21:49.01DocScrutinizer05dos1: ^^^
21:49.02dos1hah, good call
21:49.06dos1seems black
21:49.20DocScrutinizer05they all do ;-)
21:49.53DocScrutinizer05though you can guess they might be transparent to IR when checking against a bright light source
21:49.58dos1seems totally black while shining a light through it, while original one it a bit redish :P
21:50.11DocScrutinizer05yes, exactly
21:50.47DocScrutinizer05so odds are it's a fake like the antennas
21:50.50dos1so my "seems black" meant "seems it's just a black piece of plastic"
21:51.39DocScrutinizer05you could test by covering the IR LED of a consomer remote control with the window
21:55.32DocScrutinizer05afk, bbl
22:26.28XDS2010DocScrutinizer05:  i don't know if i am going to be able to go back to a resistive screen at this point. its been so long since i've used my n900. i've gotten so used to my new android devices. this project seems to be taking so long. not that i mind that its just by the time devices actually start to ship the technology would have changed so drastically it
22:26.28XDS2010might not even work with current towers a year after launch and then there are probably other unforeseen issues that may arise. im also not trying to criticize the projects handling but it makes me wonder if we are taking enough risks
22:27.33XDS2010At the very least i hope you can understand how i'm feeling.
22:29.08XDS2010Also, I don't mind using legacy hardware. On the contrary i encourage it. But i want everyone to be on the same page too.
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22:34.47merlin1991XDS2010: I don't think 3g is going out of service any time soon
22:35.31dos1"might not even work with current towers a year after launch" uhm? that would apply to any phone launched year ago as well then
22:36.45DocScrutinizer05what's wrong with LTE?
22:37.47DocScrutinizer05it's so cutting edge ven modem manufs as well as jolla have not completely supported it *yet*
22:38.12XDS2010They are already starting to decommission CDMA in some places and LTE won't be here forever soon it will be gone too just like AMPS.
22:38.38DocScrutinizer05aha
22:38.42XDS2010I've already heard of talks on LTE-A
22:39.04DocScrutinizer05afk, bbl
22:39.36XDS2010merlin1991:  they have already begun decommissioning it in some parts of canada
22:39.57XDS2010the US and other countries will follow soon
22:40.13dos1as I said, there's no difference between buying neo900 or any recent mainstream phone then
22:40.14merlin1991totally the reason why even csd still works here ...
22:40.54XDS2010dos1:  not saying don't buy a neo900 i'm saying are we looking at all the angles
22:41.27dos1well, where I live even my old Nokia 3310 still works well ;)
22:41.45XDS2010lol one of the best phones ever
22:41.47DocScrutinizer05there simply is no newer technology than LTE
22:42.10XDS2010LTE-A is used in some parts of the northeast
22:42.14DocScrutinizer05worrying about lifetime of Long Term Evolition right now seems a tad paradox
22:45.10XDS2010im not worried. im being proactive
22:46.35DocScrutinizer05>>that its just by the time devices actually start to ship the technology would have changed so drastically it might not even work with current towers a year after launch << sounds much like useless worrying
22:47.17DocScrutinizer05anyway there *is no newer* RAT available
22:47.50DocScrutinizer05maybe faster LTE modems, yes
22:48.32XDS2010dos1:  i miss the nokia 82xx series :P
22:48.44DocScrutinizer05ours can only go half as fast as the fastest currently available ones. That doesn't mean it won't work in a year. It will work with basically all networks worldwide even in 5 years
22:49.57DocScrutinizer05probably even in 10 years
22:50.34XDS2010would it be possible to put a sat RAT on the board ?
22:50.51DocScrutinizer05not really
22:51.00XDS2010even with a protruding antenna port ?
22:51.01DocScrutinizer05we checked our options
22:51.37DocScrutinizer05well, with a protruding antenna it might be theoretically possible, but then we're not talking about a Neo900 anymore
22:52.04DocScrutinizer05also no modem modules available for any SAT RAT
22:52.18XDS2010if you look at the terrastar GENUS the phone is actually very small considering its specs
22:52.18DocScrutinizer05none I know of at least
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22:53.38DocScrutinizer05also sat phones are of very limited practical use regarding the common usecase. They fail indoors for obvious reasons
22:54.13DocScrutinizer05just like GPS, only easier
22:55.27XDS2010Not true anymore. With QZ orbiting indoor calls on a clear day work ok
22:56.40DocScrutinizer05anyway I'm definitely afk now
22:57.36XDS2010l8
23:20.40dos1hah, white housing with black cover also looks cool, if not cooler
23:20.43dos1http://dosowisko.net/n900bw/
23:21.27dos1but it's probably easier to fix backcover than that IR window to have 100% funcional device
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23:51.26DocScrutinizer05well, i'd test it. Maybe it's _not_ a fake
23:58.06DocScrutinizer05pointing a CIR exactly on the outside of the window and looking to the inside with a N900 main camera will tell quite clearly if it's fake or IR-transparent
23:58.14DocScrutinizer05dos1: ^^^
23:58.51DocScrutinizer05the IR is seen as blue light by N900 cam
23:59.05DocScrutinizer05any standard TV remote will do

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