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| 18:08.00 | teleshoes | so, um, how big a deal is gdc stepping down? |
| 18:14.20 | FIQ | gdc? |
| 18:14.27 | teleshoes | goldelico |
| 18:14.31 | FIQ | goldelico? |
| 18:14.32 | FIQ | ah |
| 18:14.32 | teleshoes | nikolaus |
| 18:14.35 | FIQ | hm... |
| 18:14.38 | FIQ | interesting |
| 18:14.47 | FIQ | I wonder if he did the same for Pyra |
| 18:15.15 | teleshoes | interesting, like a stab wound is interesting |
| 18:15.32 | teleshoes | i dont think so |
| 18:15.37 | FIQ | well I didn't mean interesting as in fun |
| 18:15.50 | FIQ | just... "hm wonder what this leads to" |
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| 18:16.53 | teleshoes | apparently it leads to 75k € being refunded |
| 18:17.28 | FIQ | where can I find info about this? |
| 18:17.39 | teleshoes | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1425501&postcount=1867 |
| 18:19.45 | FIQ | uh huh |
| 18:20.05 | FIQ | this is not good for the project |
| 18:20.46 | freemangordon | I wouldn't say "not good", IMO this means the end of the project :( |
| 18:20.50 | freemangordon | I hope I am wrong |
| 18:20.53 | teleshoes | i wish DocScrutinizer05 would chime in with a word of encouragement |
| 18:21.21 | teleshoes | or even a word of permanent discouragement |
| 18:22.08 | FIQ | freemangordon: what I fear is that this piss part of the donors off to the point that they refuse to give additional support |
| 18:22.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I'm short of words. Please excuse my silence, I have yet to recover from this shock. It came as a surprise to me as well |
| 18:22.13 | teleshoes | im really sorry |
| 18:22.15 | FIQ | and, in turn, kill the project |
| 18:22.28 | teleshoes | what a jerk to announce it there! |
| 18:22.44 | teleshoes | instead of to you, to let you gently break the news and announce fund management yourself |
| 18:23.33 | FIQ | sorry for my first thought being "what about pyra?", I didn't realize it was this bad of an impact at first |
| 18:23.54 | freemangordon | FIQ: I don;t think donoss withdrawing will be the worse |
| 18:23.57 | freemangordon | *donors |
| 18:24.23 | freemangordon | worst even |
| 18:24.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | teleshoes: sorry, nope, I seen some mails flying around and he told about that step 2 or 3 hours ago already |
| 18:24.31 | FIQ | nikolaus was responsible for the pcb handling, wasn't he? |
| 18:24.48 | freemangordon | I wonder who will continue with HW development |
| 18:24.49 | FIQ | partially at least |
| 18:25.19 | FIQ | so *even* if it would be possible to simply transfer funds (it's not), outcome is still very uncertain |
| 18:25.22 | teleshoes | i see |
| 18:25.38 | teleshoes | it doesnt feel uncertain to me |
| 18:26.18 | mvaenskae | wow, this is not great news :( |
| 18:26.20 | teleshoes | i feel like a kid whose parents just got divorced or something |
| 18:26.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry folks, I can't say a word right now. This is severe. Probably final. I have to carefully think if there are ways to go on |
| 18:26.39 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: what will you do? |
| 18:26.41 | FIQ | oh all right |
| 18:26.54 | teleshoes | thanks for everything and good luck |
| 18:27.02 | FIQ | can respect that fully, this is very sad news |
| 18:27.15 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: best luck to you, whatever happens |
| 18:29.33 | mvaenskae | DocScrutinizer05: if you need to take a break take it to reorganize your thoughts and goals |
| 18:29.47 | mvaenskae | and also you come first right now, not the project |
| 18:30.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | just one remark, to not let any false ideas and rumors grow and blossom: I haven't seen a single penny of the donations raised at Goldelico site. |
| 18:31.17 | teleshoes | no need to tell us folks here; if someone's going to want to believe something vile, theyre going to believe it anyway |
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| 21:28.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm far from suggesting that already, but I think a feasible way would be: when GDC asks customers about the bank account to transfer the refunding to, every custoner is free to tell GDC the account number and IBAN/BIC of Neo900 UG's account |
| 21:28.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see any problem for GDC when customer decides that's the account he wants to receive the refund at |
| 21:30.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | obviously that's no proper order with invoice and everything, like our customers seen at GDC order page |
| 21:30.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I have to think about that some more |
| 21:31.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | also whether it makes sense, since that depends on GDC willing to do hw development as a subcontractor |
| 21:34.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I clearly say I'm not capable to do all that stuff alone, it needs more than one guy to run all this, and more than my expertise alone that's limited to design and EE but lacks in production and another few domains |
| 22:01.11 | FIQ | would be happy to help but since I lack the expertise for this, I can mostly help in money support only |
| 22:03.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: thanks a lot. Clearly Nikolaus been a vital part of the whole concept, and I don't feel like lightheadedly going for another hw developer. |
| 22:06.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | without Nikolaus I'd consider the risk of the project failing too high to suggest any of you to risk your money on it. This may change when I learn to know another guy equally skilled and experienced like Nikolaus, but I guess that's impossible :-) |
| 22:09.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think and hope in a week from now we'll laugh about it and drink champagne to celebrate our new better easier organizational setup and head on to building zillions of Neo900 :-D |
| 22:09.30 | xes | i still hope that the project's team could redefine the respective positions while still remaining inside the original project's idea |
| 22:09.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | xes: please rephrase |
| 22:09.57 | dos1 | Neo900: from catastrophe to opportunity in few hours |
| 22:10.04 | dos1 | we should make a tv series based on that ;) |
| 22:10.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehehehe |
| 22:10.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | you know we already planned that for Openmoko? X-P |
| 22:10.43 | dos1 | :D |
| 22:10.54 | xes | i hope you will find a new equilibrium ... |
| 22:11.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | we will find a better ordinizational definition of the project |
| 22:11.55 | dos1 | xes: looks like this will allow us to stay closer to the original intents about our roles in the project |
| 22:12.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | let's see how that better organization impacts or even boosts the perspective for the project to succeed |
| 22:12.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, exactly what dos1 says |
| 22:13.08 | dos1 | ambiguity in Nik's announcement was too high even for us (it indeed sounded like he doesn't want to do anything neo900 related anymore!), but fortunately turned out to not be such a big deal |
| 22:13.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | the original idea always been like what we're heading towards now, basically. Just GDC *also* being in the role of Neo900_UG |
| 22:14.20 | dos1 | so we now "only" risk losing some customers who already paid and who will decide to not transfer their refunded money to Neo900 UG |
| 22:14.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, we'll see how that pans out |
| 22:15.01 | dos1 | and some organisation overhead like setting up new "shop" or whatever will be needed |
| 22:15.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: seen my last post on tmo? |
| 22:15.57 | dos1 | yep, but that's not a solution for anyone who haven't donated yet and would like to |
| 22:15.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think we should carefully rethink how to do all that bucks-stuff so we don't do same mistake twice |
| 22:16.08 | dos1 | of course |
| 22:16.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, of course |
| 22:16.52 | dos1 | we have to have everything sorted out *before* it starts again... |
| 22:17.11 | dos1 | failing to do that again would be a true catastrophe :P |
| 22:17.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | the Neo900 UG bank account is alive and workig. We can hand it out to those willing to donate. But we need to think about the legal aspects |
| 22:17.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, not only a catastrophe but also a shame |
| 22:18.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | we don't want to create contracts again |
| 22:18.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus: seen my last post? |
| 22:18.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are some minor details in it about that |
| 22:19.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | but lemme think about that before we make a big fuzz, it needs careful evaluation by tax advisors and dunno whom |
| 22:19.54 | dos1 | details being bolded I guess? :P |
| 22:20.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 22:20.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 22:21.47 | dos1 | seems fair, but that "negotiate" sounds scary - I'd prefer clear rules with as little negotiation as possible |
| 22:22.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | clear rules are what breaks our neck here |
| 22:22.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | according to several court decisions |
| 22:22.57 | dos1 | so not *that* clear, but as clear as possible without neck-breaking ;) |
| 22:23.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | we MUST NOT give clear rules, or it will be a contract *again* |
| 22:24.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | if we promise _anything_ for the money, it's a contract, not a donation |
| 22:24.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | we can promise "VIP customer status" |
| 22:24.27 | FIQ | <dos1> ambiguity in Nik's announcement was too high even for us (it indeed sounded like he doesn't want to do anything neo900 related anymore!), but fortunately turned out to not be such a big deal |
| 22:24.32 | FIQ | huh? what did I miss |
| 22:24.35 | FIQ | did things change? |
| 22:24.52 | FIQ | compared to that forum post |
| 22:24.57 | FIQ | it sounded like nik was bailing out |
| 22:25.05 | dos1 | FIQ: announcement from Nikolaus sounds far more dramatic than it really is |
| 22:25.50 | dos1 | GDC steps out as a entity which holds money etc. but Nikolaus doesn't see any problem with working for Neo900 UG as a contractor |
| 22:26.47 | FIQ | ah all rightt |
| 22:26.49 | FIQ | -t |
| 22:27.52 | dos1 | so while he is true that we now can continue without him or with someone else, we probably don't want that and will ask him for his help anyway ;) |
| 22:28.14 | dos1 | "he is true" damn I really need some rest |
| 22:28.32 | FIQ | lol |
| 22:29.17 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: I see. makes sense |
| 22:30.45 | dos1 | I guess unofficial hints like "don't worry, stuff won't in fact change" will have to be enough |
| 22:31.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: we all need some rest. Today you're probably more wasted than I usually am |
| 22:31.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 22:32.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | funny enough a merchant is allowed to make individual price |
| 22:33.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's normal on a Moroccan bazaar, but you'd not expect that for a normal purchase/sale in Grmany |
| 22:33.31 | dos1 | after finally figuring it out we'll have to wrap it all up in nice words and write some nice article about "the sinusoidal fall and rise of the neo900" |
| 22:33.44 | dos1 | or maybe it should be a book? ;) |
| 22:33.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | a trilogy |
| 22:34.32 | dos1 | definitely a good case study for students :P |
| 22:34.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | hope your talk this weekend is in a brighter light now, than it been a few hours back |
| 22:35.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you actually got a pretty fresh new chapter to add |
| 22:35.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 22:35.47 | dos1 | definitely - if only I'll manage to finish the preparations on time!!! |
| 22:35.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe |
| 22:36.31 | dos1 | so maybe I better go to sleep now and wake up earlier :x |
| 22:36.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | good night! |
| 22:36.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 22:36.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | goes afk as well |
| 22:37.28 | dos1 | good night o/ |
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