02:37.04 | *** join/#neo900 wicket64 (~wicket@gateway/tor-sasl/wicket64) |
03:39.51 | *** join/#neo900 thrakcattack (~pi@193-83-180-135.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
04:59.49 | *** join/#neo900 AndrewX192 (~andrew@unaffiliated/andrewx192) |
05:20.54 | *** join/#neo900 SAiF (73761a7d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.115.118.26.125) |
07:20.41 | *** join/#neo900 remarc (~sequantz@194.11.24.44) |
08:39.25 | *** join/#neo900 ddark (~ddark@5.102.198.248) |
09:00.51 | *** join/#neo900 kolp (~quassel@55d44388.access.ecotel.net) |
09:55.01 | *** join/#neo900 edgar2 (~edgar2@85-76-139-48-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) |
11:39.06 | *** join/#neo900 dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
12:07.28 | *** join/#neo900 thrakcattack (~pi@193-83-180-135.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
12:47.52 | *** mode/#neo900 [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
12:49.05 | *** topic/#neo900 by DocScrutinizer05 -> http://neo900.org | conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23neo900/ | 2013-11-04 - the day our fundraiser reached its goal, 25k EUR | 2013-12-02 - 200 devices reached! | 12-14 50035EUR, 232 units | 01-17 60kEUR, 300 units | 02-28 333 units, 70k€ | 03-28 350 units, 400 donations, 73555€ | 0501 360 410 75k |
12:49.25 | *** mode/#neo900 [-o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
13:38.34 | *** join/#neo900 nicksydney (~quassel@43.11-134-203.dynamic.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
13:53.35 | *** join/#neo900 Private_User (~Private_U@unaffiliated/private-user/x-9143494) |
13:54.19 | *** part/#neo900 Private_User (~Private_U@unaffiliated/private-user/x-9143494) |
14:33.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | is it just me or doesn't tmo offer any reasonable way to view *original size* of attached images like in http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1423190&postcount=7 |
14:35.24 | dos1 | yep, noticed that as well :/ |
14:44.57 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: just included link to ODS source for my table |
14:45.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | fine :-) |
14:46.41 | ddark | going to do the same |
14:47.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | funny how Walter's drawing resembles mine, eh? |
14:48.21 | dos1 | :) |
14:48.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm sure he'll adore what we're about to bash up |
14:53.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | tmo is a PITA to embedd/attach images. You either have to link to a usually external URL and get "click here to view full size image" and eventually the external reference goes broken thanks to source server deceased or whatever. Or you attach file of picture, and get that thumbnail view only. I one came up with a 2-step scheme to first attach the photos, then in 2nd step edit msg text to use tmo attachment download URL as "external URL |
14:53.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | reference" for embedding images into msg text |
14:54.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | once* |
14:54.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's extremely clumsy |
14:55.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I dunno if it still works, since it seems .jpg etc attachments can't get downloaded anymore?? |
14:56.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | other attachments you usually can click to download them. Either the embedded link for doing that for .jpg/.png etc recently vanished. Or the complete functionality vanished |
15:01.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | coool¡ dropbox link just made my konqueror segfault |
15:02.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | luckily not reproducable |
15:07.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | the P*S8 section of ddark's table seems not all correct, I'll fix that |
15:07.52 | ddark | where ? |
15:12.05 | ddark | found it |
15:17.29 | ddark | fixed |
15:17.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't worry, I'm preparing a template for all spreadsheets to have *all* bands and proper attribution to P*S8* on what they support of them |
15:20.15 | ddark | maybe some public wiki page, like you said on TMO ? |
15:27.15 | *** join/#neo900 derka (~derka@41.82.162.23) |
15:27.28 | derka | Hi |
15:27.33 | derka | Hi |
15:27.36 | derka | Hi |
15:28.56 | *** join/#neo900 remarc (~sequantz@194.11.24.44) |
15:31.33 | derka | Guys |
15:31.36 | derka | anyone here |
15:32.37 | dos1 | hello |
15:33.43 | derka | Hello DoS1 |
15:34.05 | derka | How soon can i get a neo 900 to dev stuf fon it |
15:34.29 | derka | and then how quickly can i buy lot of them like 50, 100, 500 |
15:36.58 | dos1 | if you would want to get 500 of them, you could basically set your own rules (to some reasonable extend of course :D), as you would be buying the majority of produced devices ;) |
15:37.44 | derka | lol |
15:37.47 | derka | but we are not here yet |
15:37.57 | derka | in the meanwhile, how quickly can i get some |
15:38.00 | derka | to do dev on it |
15:38.14 | dos1 | how quickly - we're aiming at Q3 this year for the shipment of finished devices, but it might shift a bit towards Q4 |
15:38.24 | derka | and up to now are every components used on the phone open and controlled ? |
15:38.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | we hope to come up with very first prototypes in maybe 2..3 months |
15:38.39 | derka | so basically, july or august ? |
15:38.48 | dos1 | but there's also a "special offer" for people who donate >= 1500 EUR - they also get first prototypes |
15:38.56 | derka | ok |
15:39.21 | derka | where are you based ? |
15:39.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | Germany |
15:39.38 | derka | ok |
15:39.56 | derka | and the phone will be assembled where |
15:40.05 | dos1 | also Germany |
15:40.07 | derka | ok |
15:40.22 | dos1 | Bavaria, to be more exact |
15:40.25 | derka | if i was to doate 1500 € for instance when would i get the first prototypes |
15:40.59 | derka | Ich kann nicht mehr deutsch sprechen |
15:41.12 | derka | ich habe ganz vergessen |
15:41.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | we got 9 proto-"orders" right now. We are offering protos to those as they get built, first come first serve |
15:41.13 | derka | lol |
15:41.34 | derka | ok so those 9 orders were not served yet |
15:41.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, we have no proper complete prototypes yet |
15:41.51 | dos1 | that's right |
15:42.20 | derka | is there a way to develop for the neo900 right now even if there is no HW |
15:42.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | first prototypes that are "useful2 by any metrics expected to show up in 2 months maybe |
15:42.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | raher 3 |
15:42.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, it's compatible to N900 |
15:42.53 | derka | ok |
15:42.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | and to beagleboard |
15:43.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~fptf |
15:43.03 | infobot | well, fptf is the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308 |
15:43.04 | derka | nice |
15:43.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | note please we don't suggest or offer any particular OS for the hw we ship |
15:43.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | up to user to decide what they wanna use |
15:43.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | or for what to develop |
15:44.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | it basically like buying a bare bones PC |
15:44.37 | derka | ok |
15:44.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | we make sure there are linux drivers available for every subsystem in Neo900 |
15:44.48 | derka | ok |
15:45.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | if for some chip there are not, we still provide the datasheets links |
15:45.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | so you can write the drivers |
15:45.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I don't expect that to happen |
15:46.14 | derka | ok |
15:46.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think we can find chips with existing driver support for everything |
15:48.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | when somebody "preorders" 50 devices (aka 5k donation), we for sure will listen to any special requirements s/he mentions to us |
15:51.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | we have quite some flexibility in some segments, less in others. E.G we *can* offer separate independent GPS chip, and we'd be willing to see if we can inplement whatever you like when you want 50 of them. For modem we are less flexible, you can pick from the range of compatible Cinterion P*S8 and we'll get you any of those. WLAN is another possible domain to negotiate what can be done |
15:52.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | just ask |
16:06.46 | derka | ok |
16:06.54 | derka | so basically you can provide a bare linux os on it ? |
16:07.07 | derka | or there is not yet any os available |
16:23.07 | x29a | maemo/mer |
16:23.17 | x29a | there was even an ubuntu ported on the n900 if i recall correctly |
16:24.03 | bencoh | depends on what you expect to be working, but debian runs on it |
16:24.22 | bencoh | with most peripherals |
16:24.27 | x29a | derka: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=79027 |
16:25.09 | derka | thx |
16:25.30 | derka | great i would certainly stick to debian |
17:28.09 | *** join/#neo900 derka_ (~derka@41.82.157.59) |
17:29.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | derka: we will ship it with a bare bones debian with some tools to check basic functionality of the hardware |
17:29.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | a so caled board support package |
17:30.14 | derka_ | ok cool |
17:30.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | aybe not even X11 |
17:30.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | bit for sure some tools to read out numerical values from sensors like compass etc |
17:30.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | but* |
17:31.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | and from touchscreen |
17:31.28 | derka | nice |
17:31.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | and all other stuff the device comes with |
17:33.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | we need that for QA after factory anyway |
17:34.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what you get is basically the factory test software |
17:36.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | we might provide (an URL to) a script to download and install other distros |
17:36.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | but those other distros are neither developed nor provided nor maintained by Neo900 group |
17:37.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | rather see |
17:37.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~fptf |
17:37.07 | infobot | fptf is probably the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308 |
17:44.04 | *** join/#neo900 sixwheeledbeast (~paul@2a01:348:6:860a:6da1:fe26:630:c0fe) |
17:45.49 | *** join/#neo900 derka_ (~derka@41.82.137.80) |
18:13.27 | *** join/#neo900 derka (~derka@41.82.137.80) |
18:34.26 | freemangordon | ~pali |
18:34.27 | infobot | somebody said pali was http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/ |
19:05.55 | *** join/#neo900 edgar2 (~edgar2@85-76-55-110-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) |
20:37.45 | *** join/#neo900 xes (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
20:52.27 | derka | just a quick idea, would it be cool to allow some interface to plug the raspberry pi compute on it |
20:52.41 | derka | or even run it with it |
20:53.25 | derka | http://www.raspberrypi.org/raspberry-pi-compute-module-new-product/ |
21:51.49 | bencoh | ? |
21:52.46 | derka | yes Bencoh ? |
21:52.51 | derka | you dont like my idea |
22:08.46 | *** join/#neo900 wicket64 (~wicket@gateway/tor-sasl/wicket64) |
22:08.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | we probably don't understand your idea |
22:13.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think the CPU on this thing is significantly better than the OMAP3, and I don't understand the usecase of a Asymmetric Multi Processor desogn like this anyway |
22:13.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | design* |
22:14.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway on Neo900 there's hardly any high bandwidth interface to integrate the two systems, like "share RAM" or whatever |
22:16.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | so all you can do is hook that thing up to the Neo900 via USB2 (since I don't think you want to link the two systems via I2C) - and then the R-Pi becomes a blackbox for Neo900 and it makes no difference if the USB-link goes to R-Pi or to a i7-laptop |
22:18.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw not even the R-Pi-compute offers a high bandwidth interface. What it offers are lots of generic IO |
23:03.58 | derka | yeah the idea is to plug many stuff on it thats it |
23:04.26 | derka | i have zero knowledge of eletronics, i just know software |
23:06.32 | *** join/#neo900 b1101 (~b@209.222.7.236) |
23:10.29 | ShadowJK | Neo900 cpu is omap3 @ 1Ghz or something like that, right? |
23:10.50 | ShadowJK | rpi compute is roughly equivalent to omap3 @ 0.35 MHz or so afaik |
23:12.28 | derka | woew |
23:12.29 | derka | wow |
23:12.33 | derka | 3000 slower??? |
23:21.35 | ds2 | rpi compute is more like the N800 |
23:21.37 | ds2 | if even that |
23:34.58 | derka | k |
23:39.55 | ShadowJK | I meant GHz, not Mhz, sorry :) |
23:40.00 | ShadowJK | so factor 3 slower, roughly |
23:40.49 | ShadowJK | Should be noticeably faster than N800/N810 though. Omap2 of N8x0 and rpi cpu are similar in performance per clock |
23:41.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway I don't see the usecase |
23:42.37 | ShadowJK | Off topic, but, the idea of using the rpi soc for "IO" amuses me a bit. I've deployed projects using rpi, and because the I/O is so crippled on it, I sandwiched it with an AVR handling all the I/O, and rPi handling writing logfiles to SD, data processing, internet, etc |
23:42.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | even when it was 10 times as fast, it still wpuldn't benefit Neo900 to have a SODIMM protruding from its back |
23:43.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly when said SODIM has ony a USB connection to Neo900 |
23:44.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: sounds about real. I never used rPi so I can't join in commenting |
23:44.58 | ShadowJK | that soc is ok for spi, i2c, serial etc.. but it's pretty tragic at anything that needs bitbanging, and it only has a handful of GPIOs anyway.. |
23:45.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | haha |
23:46.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | the rPi-compute is clearly ment to beef up a stitching machine display |
23:46.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | meant* |
23:46.31 | ShadowJK | It's a general trend really. imx233 can bitbang at 10-20MHz or so, iirc.. But the CPU runs at "only" 233MHz, iirc.. The faster CPU you have in a SoC though, the slower its GPIOs tend to be :) |
23:48.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, on 1MHz Z80 we created complex 500kHz signals by dynamically writing the opcode sequence to bitbang the stuff |
23:49.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I think the clock been 4MHz, four clocks per cycle |
23:49.19 | ShadowJK | Yes |
23:49.26 | ShadowJK | four clocks per instruction |
23:49.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | except for extended complex opcodes |
23:49.29 | ShadowJK | iirc? |
23:49.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup |
23:50.01 | ShadowJK | 6510/6502 was "only" 1/2 MHz, but most/"best" instructions ran in 2 cycles |
23:51.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | counting clock cycles for your "program" and inserting a NOP every now and then, this been real fun |
23:51.29 | ShadowJK | On AVR, it's more like 1-2 per instruction, and you can clock it up to 20Mhz, GPIOs are a store instruction more or less, so you can bitbang it quickly enough to produce a modulated AM signal that can be picked up by a normal radio receiver :) |
23:51.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah |
23:52.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | on soviet intel-cpu the clock modulates you |
23:53.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | have fun councting that for timing purposes |
23:53.17 | ShadowJK | Then again, fabrice (autohor of qemu, and many other software) wrote a program, that could make a VGA card produce a valid DVB-T signal with content, at specific resolutions of the VGA out :) |
23:53.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah I know :-d |
23:53.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
23:54.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | he didn't publish this stunt though |
23:54.11 | ShadowJK | oh? |
23:54.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | afak he didn't |
23:54.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | he liked to keep it a IP |
23:54.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | PoC been a blob iirc |
23:55.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | or he didn't include the part to encode the payload, or whatever |
23:56.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | so the "transmitter2 been open, but the payload been preprocessed and nobody could make own content |
23:56.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | can't recall the details |
23:57.36 | ShadowJK | might've been kqemu |
23:57.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: totally OT: why does a `mount -o remount,acl /` fail ? |
23:57.49 | ShadowJK | the virtualization without hw supported virtualization |
23:57.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | raher, why doesn't it show up in `mount` |
23:58.11 | ShadowJK | docscrutinizerpresumably acl cant be changed at remount? |
23:58.12 | ShadowJK | oh |
23:58.24 | ShadowJK | "mount" is pretty confused these days, I look at cat /proc/mounts |
23:58.42 | ShadowJK | that is also somewhat confused but better.. |
23:58.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2014-05-02T01:10:20.644259+02:00 neo900 kernel: [1988772.136810] EXT4-fs (vda1): re-mounted. Opts: acl |
23:59.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
23:59.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | w. t. f. ? |