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| 10:50.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | PHS8-K has automatic reset ant return to prev state when battery voltage drops below limit for <2s \o/ |
| 10:51.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | battery hotswap will be even more convenient than I hoped for |
| 10:52.54 | henk | And how convenient ist that exactly? I was wondering how much time to swap there will be … |
| 11:00.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | henk: the trick is to learn *how* to swap battery. There is a certain procedure that guarantees swap times of <0.2s. I will prepare a tutorial video eventually |
| 11:01.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | in short: you slide in new battery under used one |
| 11:01.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | new battery pops out the old one while connecting instantly instead of old one |
| 11:07.26 | henk | Yes, I’ve tested how long I’d need for swapping, with an old phone and depending on the case and the battery, I figured it can certainly be done in <1s which is hopefully fast enough. Does it need to be done in <0.2s? |
| 11:10.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | unspecified yet, but that method is the fastest and safest one anyway, so why bother to take longer? |
| 11:10.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | with new battery pushing out old battery you have no risk at all to take longer than 0.2s |
| 11:11.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | so we probably will design for a security marging of 100% and allow 0.4s |
| 11:12.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | longer takes proprtionally more bulky buffer capacitors |
| 11:13.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1s takes 5 cm^3 while 0.2s takes 1cm^3 for buffering (multiply all volume values with a correction factor for used capacitor technology, may as well be 0.1cm^3 and 0.5cm^3) |
| 11:13.31 | henk | o_O "why bother to take longer"? Yeah, I absolutely tried very hard not to be faster than 0.2s … |
| 11:13.55 | henk | Sorry, that question was unnecessarily stupid IMHO … |
| 11:13.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry for my french |
| 11:14.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | I's stopping this discussion now |
| 11:14.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | it starts getting nasty |
| 11:14.42 | henk | Not everyone may have such fast and steady fingers. |
| 11:14.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | nonsense |
| 11:15.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's technically physically no way to take longer than actually <0.1 s for popping out old bat by sliding in new one, no matter what fingers you have |
| 11:16.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you can move your finger >5cm/s you're done |
| 11:16.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | one of your fingers |
| 11:16.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | for a distance of <1cm |
| 11:17.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I told you i'll prepare a tutorial video and that it is NO problem at all, for anybody |
| 11:17.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what's the use to argue with me on denying what I promised? |
| 11:18.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | and to argue with me about my poor english? |
| 11:18.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I'm out |
| 11:19.52 | henk | Sure. No problem. For anybody. If you say so. |
| 11:20.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | try it rather than arguing with me |
| 11:20.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | take a new bat, lift old bat at bottom end and slide in new bat under it |
| 11:21.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | it will magically pop out old bat and same moment (<0.05s) connect new battery |
| 11:21.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's prettyl little you could do wrong in that procedure |
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| 11:24.08 | henk | Can’t. Don’t have a n900 to test with. Neither do I have anything reliably measuring the time it takes to actually disconnect the old and connect the new battery. Which is why I only know that it is generally possible to do it in <1s, but I have no idea how long exactly. |
| 11:24.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | and since it's that fast switching time, you basically can't spoil it since you can't stop the process in between switching, it's simply too fast |
| 11:24.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | yiu have a reliable means to measure: you perception |
| 11:25.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | God! can't you try to figure what I tell you? |
| 11:26.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, 1s is abozut the time i'd need to FIRST pull out old bat, THEN insert new one |
| 11:26.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | but we don't do that |
| 11:26.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | we FIRST insert new bat, THEN it pops out old one automagically |
| 11:26.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | the whole thing is atomic |
| 11:27.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can't stop it in between |
| 11:27.32 | henk | You are german, right? |
| 11:27.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | not even if you try |
| 11:27.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 11:27.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | why? |
| 11:27.53 | henk | Then you probably know the term "Grobmotoriker"? |
| 11:28.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, we can't handle all kinds of "Grobmotoriker" to be found out there |
| 11:29.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you can swap battery in <1s then you're more than fit to swap it in <0.05s with my method |
| 11:29.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's baby simple |
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| 11:30.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, you need both hands, and placing the device on a table helps a lot |
| 11:30.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | but that's it |
| 11:31.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | you lift old battery at bottom end ~10mm (no time constraint - NTC) |
| 11:31.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | you slide in new battery maybe 30% of the total battery lenght (NTC) |
| 11:33.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | you push in new battery by pressing battery bottom up direction batery contact (time contraint: move battery til it sits in contaczs. Distance: 3cm, time to accomplish this one movement: 0.5s) |
| 11:33.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | this automagically makes old battery pop up and out of the way |
| 11:34.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | really no rocket science and no artistic art |
| 11:36.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | wishes he had a camera stand, to take a movie |
| 11:51.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | here you are: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20131112_003.mp4 (don't ask me how to playback mp4 on linux desktop) |
| 11:52.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | watch this video and you'll notice it's dead simple and can't go wrong |
| 11:52.22 | ilon | DocScrutinizer05: breathe. |
| 11:52.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I even did it with my left hand while taking the video with my right one |
| 11:54.30 | ilon | DocScrutinizer05: by the way, does this work with the n900, or is the capacitors not big enough? |
| 11:55.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | it doesn't work with N900, at least not without other supporting tricks like airpane mode and powered down screen backlight and stopping BME to not make device emergency-shutdown when battery BSI contact disconnected |
| 11:57.15 | ilon | ahhh |
| 11:57.23 | ilon | didnt think of BSI contact |
| 11:58.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah BSI contact blade is even 0.2mm shorter to disconnect a few ms earlier than Vbat |
| 11:59.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | but actually I wondered by myself if it *could* work when you take the necessary precautions |
| 12:00.12 | ilon | something for a friday night experiment? :P |
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| 14:38.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Neo900/media/pic+vid/batswap-quick-procedure.mp4 |
| 14:39.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: please have a href to this behind the > >Battery hot-swa pFor all fast handed hackers over there that can replace the battery in just few seconds, we're going to support switching it on the fly, without turning off the phone!<< Thanks! |
| 14:40.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | ilon: sure, go ahead! :-) |
| 14:42.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | you need to: `stop bme`, make sure CPU is idle, backlight and display off, and WLAN set to 10mW TX power |
| 14:43.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | also you probably should do a `sync` immediately before you try, to give your filesystem a chance to survive even when the hotswap fails |
| 14:48.07 | ilon | DocAvalanche: heh, tempting :P |
| 14:48.39 | DocAvalanche | actually, DrAvalanche |
| 14:48.42 | ilon | Also, ordered a "Brand new" Nokia N900 from a seller in Hong Kong |
| 14:49.28 | ilon | had a lengthy email conversation with the seller where they reassured that the item is in fact brand new, not a copy or refurbished |
| 14:49.39 | ilon | going to be fun to receive it |
| 14:49.42 | ilon | :P |
| 14:49.44 | DocAvalanche | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doktor_Avalanche#Doktor_Avalanche |
| 14:50.19 | DocAvalanche | ilon: yes, much. Please report |
| 14:50.47 | ilon | DocAvalanche: oh i will. |
| 14:51.07 | ilon | DocAvalanche: most likely is that i get a refurbished one, might be in good enough condition to keep tho |
| 14:54.07 | DocAvalanche | http://www.the-sisters-of-mercy.com/misc/deardok.htm |
| 15:11.48 | ilon | DocScrutinizer05: what is your handle on maemo.org? |
| 15:12.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | joerg_rw |
| 15:12.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | why? |
| 15:12.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | please do NOT send PM to my tmo account! |
| 15:12.30 | ilon | DocScrutinizer05: as i suspected then, just curious :) |
| 15:12.40 | ilon | DocScrutinizer05: why would i? O,o |
| 15:13.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | joerg AT openmoko DOT org |
| 15:13.34 | ilon | DocScrutinizer05: i have no business with you.. |
| 15:13.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | is my email addr to send any stuff to me, tmo sucks donkeyballs |
| 15:13.56 | ilon | well, other than the fact i donated some to your project :P |
| 15:14.37 | ilon | DocScrutinizer05: actually, i'll just hilight you here when i have some update on the "new" n900 from hong kong |
| 15:15.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks! :-) |
| 15:15.26 | ilon | :P |
| 15:15.47 | ilon | snap, now i see, your IRC handle is even in your sig on tmo |
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| 18:49.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: ping |
| 18:50.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Neo900/media/pic+vid/batswap-quick-procedure.mp4 please have a href to this behind the > >Battery hot-swa pFor all fast handed hackers over there that can replace the battery in just few seconds, we're going to support switching it on the fly, without turning off the phone!<< Thanks! |
| 18:50.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | or, better yet, make a youtube video out of that |
| 18:50.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | and link to that |
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| 22:57.05 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: hmm... maybe even gif? |
| 22:57.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? |
| 22:57.25 | dos1 | I think it's short enough and can be embedded in tooltip |
| 22:57.29 | dos1 | (batswap video) |
| 22:57.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you manage to make an animated gif of that, sure, go ahead |
| 22:58.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | it so short because it's so awesome ;-) |
| 23:00.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I probably should've placed a paper there with "(C) jOERG" written on it ;-D |
| 23:00.27 | dos1 | hehe :D |
| 23:01.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | I honestly been surprised about the elegance of the procedure, on first take :-D |
| 23:02.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | (well, not eactly first take. First been me trying in vain to lift battery and slide in new one under it - with one hand. Then I decided that's not relevant anyway) |
| 23:02.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly* |
| 23:02.42 | dos1 | yeah... when I saw it I felt ashamed that I haven't come up with it by myself |
| 23:02.52 | dos1 | cause I'm replacing battery in n900 almost every day |
| 23:03.25 | dos1 | and due to flat rtc bat, I rather try to do it fast too :D |
| 23:03.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | it works like mere magic :-) |
| 23:04.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | donations trop to an absolute zero |
| 23:05.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | drop* |
| 23:05.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ |
| 23:05.41 | dos1 | well, hardly surprising |
| 23:06.00 | dos1 | there'll be some from time to time probably, until we come up with something new and newsworthy |
| 23:06.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd hoped for a constant 3..6 per day, for next few weeks at least |
| 23:06.41 | dos1 | I hope for the end of the month and a "prototype" OSHW |
| 23:06.47 | dos1 | on OSHW* |
| 23:07.09 | dos1 | it might boost it up a bit again |
| 23:47.39 | kolp | Yes, I think what's needed now is 'visible' progress :) |
| 23:47.43 | kolp | (no pressure!) |
| 23:47.45 | kolp | ;) |
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| 23:54.51 | dos1 | kolp: working on it, new news piece coming soon, and a blog for smaller updates too |
| 23:55.12 | kolp | dos1: Great! :) |
| 23:55.14 | dos1 | sorry for delays, it's mostly my fault |
| 23:56.11 | dos1 | for now I can assure you that Joerg and Nikolaus exchange quite high amount of e-mails with their findings about components and stuff like that |
| 23:57.58 | kolp | Oh, I'm not worried |
| 23:58.03 | kolp | about that |
| 23:58.26 | kolp | (or anything else) |
| 23:59.44 | dos1 | so yeah, hopefully there'll be a new news piece within next 24 hours |
| 23:59.48 | dos1 | it's high time ;) |