| 00:31.30 | sono | interesting. i would have to stop losing styluses, however =) |
| 00:43.32 | *** join/#neo900 Snafu777 (~user@unaffiliated/snafu777) |
| 00:43.34 | Snafu777 | Woot |
| 00:44.10 | Snafu777 | So if I want to help out, but don't feel like emailing somebody to get setup who should I talk to? |
| 00:44.58 | dos1 | Snafu777: DocScrutinizer05 and me probably |
| 00:45.13 | Snafu777 | I have some suggestions and all I really see is the facebook page |
| 00:45.24 | Snafu777 | I love my N900 and am THRILLED to see it's getting a new body |
| 00:45.32 | Snafu777 | But..... My god.... the file system |
| 00:45.34 | Snafu777 | ALL jacked up |
| 00:45.48 | Snafu777 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:45.55 | Snafu777 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:45.59 | Snafu777 | etc.. |
| 00:46.08 | dos1 | don't worry |
| 00:46.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | not exactly our domain |
| 00:46.29 | Snafu777 | I also have some packages i built for my n900 |
| 00:46.38 | Snafu777 | curious if there is a repo planned, etc... |
| 00:46.46 | Snafu777 | I'd be happy to compile/build/port etc... |
| 00:46.51 | Snafu777 | Some of the current n900 packages suck |
| 00:46.55 | Snafu777 | ie...curl |
| 00:47.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | we don't do repos, OS, packages, anything like that |
| 00:47.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~fptf |
| 00:47.22 | infobot | hmm... fptf is the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308 |
| 00:47.37 | dos1 | 256mb nand of n900 will probably be replaced with 1gb |
| 00:47.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 00:48.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~cssu |
| 00:48.20 | infobot | hmm... cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU |
| 00:48.29 | dos1 | but stuff like opt will remain I guess - it'd be hard to replace it without breaking compatibility |
| 00:48.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | #maemo-ssu |
| 00:49.09 | dos1 | (this ofc only applies to fremantle port, other OSes don't have to follow that madness and for sure won't :P) |
| 00:50.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | for fremantle we want to use the packages from existing repo. And those are already optified |
| 00:51.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | you know - 100% binary compatibility |
| 00:51.46 | Snafu777 | no https |
| 00:51.53 | Snafu777 | no ssl |
| 00:51.53 | Snafu777 | bleh |
| 00:51.53 | Snafu777 | All that being said, any spots open or things needed to be done that I could help out with? |
| 00:52.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | check FPTF |
| 00:52.20 | Snafu777 | Regarding opt, i'm talking about the packages like optifier that do crazy messy bind mounts to /home and stuff |
| 00:52.30 | Snafu777 | why not just flip the partition scheme in the beginning |
| 00:53.21 | Snafu777 | Hang tight |
| 00:53.28 | Snafu777 | Ill pop some stuff on pastebin |
| 00:53.31 | Snafu777 | u can see what i mean |
| 00:53.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know what you mean |
| 00:54.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | but that's not our domain in the end, we only provide the hardware |
| 00:54.33 | Snafu777 | So who's domain would it be DocScrutinizer05? I'd love to be a part of this |
| 00:55.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | check FPTF, check #maemo-ssu |
| 00:55.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically FPTF is doing another CSSU for Neo900 |
| 00:56.14 | Snafu777 | Cool |
| 00:56.17 | Snafu777 | Thank U =) |
| 00:56.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | and like every CSSU it will be just an overlay over stock fremantle |
| 00:57.45 | Snafu777 | Nods |
| 00:57.51 | Snafu777 | but u can do things different from factory boot |
| 00:57.59 | Snafu777 | flip partitioning |
| 00:58.04 | Snafu777 | bind mounts |
| 00:58.05 | Snafu777 | etc.. |
| 00:58.06 | Snafu777 | =) |
| 00:59.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, as long as it doesn't break compatibility to stock fremantle (+ neo-CSSU on top) |
| 00:59.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | CSSU-T already replaced ke-recv and patched the rcS |
| 01:00.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | nounting of uSD cards works different in CSSU than it does in stock fremantle - just for instance |
| 01:00.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | mounting even |
| 01:01.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | and for Neo900 we need to make sure it boots via plain uBoot |
| 01:02.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | since we probably can't support NOLO |
| 01:02.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | so there goes your partitioning |
| 01:02.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | there it starts |
| 01:03.00 | *** join/#neo900 sono (~sono@tucana.uberspace.de) |
| 01:03.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | we know uBoot works with GTA04 and beagleboard |
| 01:04.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | we know uBoot can start fremantle on N900, though only when used as a chainloaded secondary bootloader loaded by NOLO |
| 01:05.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | what we need is a generic uBoot bootloader starting fremantle on N(eo)900, without any NOLO in between |
| 01:06.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | since the bootloader pretty much determines the partitions on NAND, that's where you want to start I guess |
| 01:08.41 | sono | NOLO is just some blob we don't have much about? |
| 01:10.38 | sono | well, i can find out when i finally have the time for all this |
| 01:29.18 | mashina_ | swag900: my phone is bricked #nolo |
| 01:31.26 | Snafu777 | woot bricked n900 |
| 01:31.28 | Snafu777 | fun! |
| 01:32.01 | Snafu777 | need help mashina_ ? |
| 01:32.25 | mashina_ | joke |
| 01:32.36 | Snafu777 | oh |
| 02:13.20 | *** join/#neo900 mikki-kun (~mikki-kun@unaffiliated/mikki-kun) |
| 02:55.39 | *** join/#neo900 kratz00_work (~stpa2497@194.136.18.134) |
| 04:16.12 | *** join/#neo900 varu|zZz (~whee@192.158.14.99) |
| 04:51.48 | *** join/#neo900 Herbstb3rt (~Herbstber@drms-590ec9e5.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 06:19.04 | *** join/#neo900 kratz00_1ork (~stpa2497@194.136.18.134) |
| 06:54.56 | *** join/#neo900 merlin_1991 (~merlin@merlin1991.at) |
| 07:03.12 | *** join/#neo900 kolp (~quassel@212.255.243.78) |
| 09:06.28 | *** join/#neo900 El_Angelo (~ElAngelo@xfce/contributor/ElAngelo) |
| 09:07.50 | El_Angelo | hi, what are the chances that the mainboard will indeed be sold seperatly? |
| 09:08.04 | El_Angelo | and if i donate can i use that donated amount to get a reduction on that? |
| 09:08.14 | El_Angelo | reason is... i have a n900 |
| 09:08.21 | El_Angelo | but the usb plug broke off |
| 09:08.28 | El_Angelo | and i would love to get a new mainboard for it |
| 09:16.07 | kolp | El_Angelo: You can chose whether you want a full Neo900 or just a board. It's up to you |
| 09:16.52 | El_Angelo | the 700 euro price was dropped... while i understand this is a very coarse estimation... is there any estimation on what the board would cost? |
| 09:17.37 | kolp | No (and I'm not really sure the 700 was dropped for sure) |
| 09:17.39 | El_Angelo | s/dropped/mentioned/ |
| 09:18.21 | kolp | Ah, well, the estimation is that the board will be approx. 100-150(?) EUR cheaper than the full device |
| 09:18.25 | El_Angelo | the 700 price tag was mentioned on the talk.maemo.org topic |
| 09:18.55 | El_Angelo | by joerg_rw |
| 09:19.09 | kolp | See above |
| 09:19.14 | El_Angelo | ok |
| 09:19.14 | kolp | ~100 less |
| 09:20.36 | kolp | And yes, your donation of 100+ will count towards a board-only purchase, too |
| 09:26.06 | El_Angelo | ok |
| 09:26.22 | El_Angelo | i'll have to think about this... 'tad' more expensive than i expected |
| 09:27.10 | El_Angelo | pity nokia messed up with the microUSB plug |
| 09:27.56 | El_Angelo | main problem is of course that you can get brand new devices for 150$... |
| 09:31.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | it will get the cheaper the more preorders we get |
| 09:31.41 | El_Angelo | yeah i understand |
| 09:31.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | right now GolDelico estimates the price range for the *board* at 500..700EUR |
| 09:32.19 | El_Angelo | on the risk of sounding borderline ridiculous i was hoping to a price of 150 euro... |
| 09:32.26 | El_Angelo | ;) |
| 09:32.34 | El_Angelo | i like the phone |
| 09:32.44 | El_Angelo | but it's not worth 300 euro for me |
| 09:32.46 | El_Angelo | personally |
| 09:32.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | a complete refurbished N900 is 120EUR, some 50EUR for craftsmanship on top, and we have max price increase for whole device |
| 09:33.47 | El_Angelo | i don't get what you're saying there |
| 09:33.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, we're also sorry no Samsung offered to build them in batches of 5mio and then donate the surplus ones to us |
| 09:34.31 | El_Angelo | haha |
| 09:34.45 | El_Angelo | i was making some unrealistic assumptions |
| 09:34.51 | El_Angelo | i'm not @ home in this kind of stuff |
| 09:39.29 | *** join/#neo900 kratz00_1ork (~stpa2497@194.136.18.134) |
| 09:58.12 | henk | AFAIK the most recent and hyped models of the big manufacturers are not much cheaper, are they? Like the iPhone for ass or a Galaxy S42 maxi and such? |
| 09:59.41 | josch_ | there is no point in such comparisons |
| 09:59.57 | josch_ | if you tell this to somebody they will argue that those devices are also tons faster etc... |
| 10:00.56 | *** join/#neo900 kameloso (~NaN@194.117.188.126) |
| 10:01.50 | henk | By that logic, there is no point to 99.999999999% of every comparison ever made … |
| 10:01.58 | l4m3rx | Its sad, but freedom 'costs money , at least in this case. |
| 10:02.03 | josch_ | henk: true |
| 10:02.21 | josch_ | henk: there is no point in most comparisons because there are so few mobile phones playing in the area the neo900 wants to address |
| 10:02.40 | josch_ | and 99% of phones out there are not it |
| 10:02.57 | josch_ | but instead target the "normal" consumer and are either as expensive but super fast or a bit slower but super cheap |
| 10:03.13 | josch_ | but neither gives you full control over the device and lets you tinker with it |
| 10:03.22 | josch_ | which is fine because the "normal" consumer doesnt care about those things |
| 10:03.28 | josch_ | and wouldnt pay extra for a slow device for it |
| 10:03.59 | *** join/#neo900 Powermaniac (~Powermani@110-174-122-45.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 10:04.03 | Powermaniac | Hello |
| 10:04.09 | henk | But he definitely needs an hexacore processor for playing angry birds (: |
| 10:04.30 | Powermaniac | I just discovered the Neo900 and was wondering about the Debian linux img, if it is already ready to go? |
| 10:05.27 | josch_ | Powermaniac: depends what "ready to go" means for you :) |
| 10:05.36 | josch_ | Powermaniac: surely you will be able to boot a Debian image out of the box, yes |
| 10:05.59 | josch_ | but getting it to fully work with all its components will probably require some work which is not yet done |
| 10:06.08 | Powermaniac | josch_: Well is the Debian img already available, as I am tempted to try and flash it on my Nexus 7 or HTC One V |
| 10:06.52 | josch_ | Powermaniac: how would you expect the future debian image from the neo900 to work on different hardware out of the box? |
| 10:07.16 | henk | "Whoa, there is an image that sounds great! woah, there is a hardware that takes an image!! woaaaaaah, lets combine those!" 'brick' oh ): |
| 10:07.37 | josch_ | henk: the platform is not brickable because the bootloader is not writable |
| 10:07.48 | henk | josch_: nexis 7? htc one v? |
| 10:07.55 | henk | I doubt you understood me correctly (; |
| 10:07.58 | josch_ | henk: i thought you were talking about the ne900 |
| 10:08.04 | josch_ | *neo900 |
| 10:08.20 | Powermaniac | josch_: Well I don't imagine it will work straight out of the box exactly, but atleast I was hoping you guys know how to one would make an img, and thus maybe, just maybe you could help me make an img for the Nexus 7 |
| 10:08.20 | henk | Powermaniac: Just because something "takes an image" you can’t just use anything on it that is labeled "image" … |
| 10:08.38 | josch_ | Powermaniac: i think you are in the wrong channel :) |
| 10:08.57 | Powermaniac | ... |
| 10:09.36 | josch_ | Powermaniac: first of all the neo900 hardware must become reality |
| 10:09.47 | josch_ | Powermaniac: for that there are still 200 "preorders" (in quotes) needed |
| 10:09.50 | josch_ | but more are better |
| 10:10.01 | josch_ | software development for the neo900 hardware are a different department |
| 10:10.11 | Powermaniac | Oh |
| 10:10.14 | josch_ | if you want to try out the hardware platform you can try the gta04 |
| 10:10.31 | Powermaniac | Well I'm interested in both... |
| 10:10.31 | josch_ | or the beagleboard or openpandora which run a similar cpu |
| 10:10.34 | Powermaniac | The software and hardware |
| 10:10.36 | henk | Powermaniac: If you want to hack on phones made for android (or: that usually run android) check out xda-developers |
| 10:11.39 | henk | But that stuff is not really open, neither hardware nor software. Which is at least one of the reasons why getting debian on it would probably be very difficult. |
| 10:11.57 | Powermaniac | But yeah for now the idea was to find out about the software you plan to use. |
| 10:12.02 | Powermaniac | Ahh okay, fair enough |
| 10:13.07 | Powermaniac | Well thank you anyway |
| 10:13.47 | henk | AFAICT most of the software that is mentioned on the website would run on a gta04 (or maybe even a gta02, which might be a little cheaper to lay hands on?), or maybe even in a virtual machine … |
| 11:18.40 | b1101 | are credit cards actually charged, or is the charge just "tested" ? I had the charge sitting on my credit cards new charges, but then disappeared. Assuming it will come back once collection is over and will finalize |
| 11:20.11 | kolp | b1101: The amount might just be blocked. That was 'criticized' somewhere on tmo, iirc |
| 11:21.00 | kolp | Dunno why it vanishd then, though. You might want to get in touch with info @ goldelico if it's not being charged soonish |
| 11:22.01 | *** join/#neo900 dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 11:28.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | b1101: I know nikolaus is doing the charging manually for each single donation |
| 11:29.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | he rejected that 4000EUR donation due to "plausibility concerns" ;-P |
| 11:30.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | we get charged a 130% payback for each fraudulent CC payment GolDeliCo accepts - that's why |
| 11:31.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that may happen 6 months from now |
| 11:31.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | when the money already got used and is gone |
| 11:32.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | so, please read the small remark under "Donate now" button on neo900.org, and act accordingly: send a mail |
| 11:33.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | though an hour ago Nikolaus asked me to change that recommendation to "sorry we can't accept your donation right now, please keep it until device sales start, at which time we might have a more global payment system and shipment infra installed" |
| 11:35.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | I need to discuss this with him before we "officially" go that path |
| 11:36.26 | *** join/#neo900 Funklord (~cow@84-55-99-121.customers.ownit.se) |
| 11:36.39 | Funklord | hi |
| 11:36.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi |
| 11:36.58 | Funklord | great project |
| 11:37.06 | Funklord | how long has this been in development? |
| 11:37.11 | Funklord | I only heard about it now |
| 11:38.56 | Funklord | it seems like everything and the kitchen sink is going to be included in this thing |
| 11:39.19 | Funklord | only one thing missing... a sub-GHz radio transceiver |
| 11:39.47 | dos1 | everything and the kitchen sink except quad-core cpu and capacitive screen and thinner case and... ;) |
| 11:39.55 | dos1 | hello |
| 11:40.27 | Funklord | people are using more and more products in the sub-GHz ranges, specifically on 915, 868, 433 and 169MHz |
| 11:41.05 | Funklord | there are cheap (like $4) radios that can do all of those |
| 11:42.36 | Funklord | well, maybe not 169MHz |
| 11:43.00 | Funklord | but ~900 and 433MHz should be doable with one design |
| 11:43.05 | henk | What is being done on those frequencies? Never heard of that before, I think … |
| 11:43.33 | Funklord | home automation, energy metering, item locators, payment systems |
| 11:43.40 | Funklord | you name it |
| 11:44.04 | henk | oh ok, thanks |
| 11:44.47 | Funklord | sub-GHz radios are VERY power efficient, when compared to beasts like wifi and bluetooth |
| 11:45.19 | Funklord | and/or have better wall penetration and LOS ranges |
| 11:46.58 | Funklord | http://www.silabs.com/products/wireless/EZRadioPRO/Pages/Si446x.aspx |
| 11:47.37 | Funklord | that one is very programmable |
| 11:47.59 | Funklord | http://www.ti.com/product/cc1101 |
| 11:48.07 | Funklord | is tried and true |
| 11:48.23 | Funklord | used in tons of products, so is extremely cheap |
| 11:48.44 | Funklord | many people know how to program it |
| 11:49.36 | Funklord | there's also MSP430F5137 microcontroller which has one built in |
| 11:49.51 | Funklord | used in wristwatches etc. |
| 11:55.42 | Funklord | oops, I meant CC430F6137 |
| 11:55.51 | Funklord | http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/cc430f6137.html |
| 11:58.01 | Funklord | I use 868MHz to detect my presence at home and work (my watch has a transceiver) |
| 11:58.36 | Funklord | the battery (a CR2032) still lasts maybe 2 years |
| 11:59.33 | b1101 | I had a payment approved email |
| 11:59.40 | kolp | knows without technology where he is ;) |
| 12:00.15 | Funklord | haha ;) |
| 12:00.29 | Funklord | even when you're drunk? |
| 12:00.56 | kolp | Though I'm all for adding more stuff to the neo900 :) |
| 12:01.25 | kolp | When I'm drunk I'm neither at home nor at work ;) |
| 12:01.42 | Funklord | that's what YOU think :P |
| 12:03.19 | kolp | Fair enough :) |
| 12:04.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | Funklord: I have that on my radar |
| 12:06.22 | Funklord | DocScrutinizer05: nice :) I hope it materializes |
| 12:08.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | you may be interested in a funny paper I wrote up several years ago: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/gta04.pdf |
| 12:11.13 | Funklord | nice |
| 12:13.20 | Funklord | cool mission statement |
| 12:13.31 | Funklord | has the laser pointer been dropped? |
| 12:18.44 | kolp | And the dect phone? |
| 12:19.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL, you guys should know this been a concept paper for a device that never got built |
| 12:19.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | it happened to also have the name of GTA04 by mere incident |
| 12:20.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | this predates any GTA04 initiative taken by GolDeliCo |
| 12:20.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | it been a skunkworks project driven by me inside OM, and got canceled eventually |
| 12:21.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | sole purpose of this paper nowadays is for fun and to illustrate some ideas I had 5 years ago already |
| 12:21.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | like 433/866MHz radio |
| 12:25.00 | Funklord | I was developing a geek-phone years ago. The idea was to take the original PC approach to phones, you give users just a keyboard and a shell to type in commands |
| 12:25.22 | Funklord | then they can add GUIs and other things to their own liking |
| 12:25.39 | Funklord | obviously using standard distro package management |
| 12:26.01 | Funklord | but the idea was that the phone be fully usable from the console |
| 12:26.42 | *** join/#neo900 Neros (~quassel@24-55-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr) |
| 12:26.51 | Funklord | since most of the time spent developing phones is software, and this was a way to decrease that and push it over on the community |
| 12:27.40 | Funklord | still don't know whether there'd be a market for such devices... |
| 12:29.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, look at Neo900 sales ;-) |
| 12:31.49 | *** join/#neo900 hbib (~wurmel@pD9528ACA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:32.33 | Funklord | DocScrutinizer05: what's the relation between GTA04 and neo900 |
| 12:32.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | which GTA04? |
| 12:32.49 | Funklord | the new one |
| 12:32.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | the new one? |
| 12:32.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe |
| 12:33.01 | Funklord | discussed on neo900 pages |
| 12:33.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | Neo900 is based on GTA04 design |
| 12:33.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | since both GTA04 and N900 base on TI Zoom2 design |
| 12:34.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | as does baegleboard |
| 12:34.47 | Funklord | ah |
| 12:35.12 | Funklord | I just noticed one thing you *may* have forgotten, inductive charging! |
| 12:36.21 | kolp | Funklord: Check this: http://projects.goldelico.com/p/neo900/downloads/get/neo900-feasibility.pdf |
| 12:36.25 | Funklord | it's much cheaper to put the coils on PCB rather than heavy labour of hair thin wires |
| 12:38.47 | Funklord | ah, it's there |
| 12:39.22 | Funklord | Impossible due to antenna dimensions |
| 12:39.27 | kolp | :( |
| 12:40.02 | kolp | Though people have hacked the coils into the n900's battery compartment |
| 12:40.22 | Funklord | hmm... maybe not, if you can fit a thin flexpcb in betweent the battery and lid |
| 12:40.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | Funklord: we considered inductive charging, see feasibility study |
| 12:41.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | Funklord: we provide pads behind the battery cover to build your own iductive charger hw mod |
| 12:41.39 | kolp | Funklord: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1359664&postcount=18 |
| 12:42.23 | Funklord | it's really tight in mine.. can barely fit a paper folded 4 times |
| 12:43.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's mugen cover |
| 12:44.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | and 16 layers of paper are already quite a bit |
| 12:45.09 | Funklord | sorry, I meant folded twice, 4 layers of paper |
| 12:48.13 | Funklord | DocScrutinizer05: the pads behind the battery cover, are they a design that could be used with zero insertion force? like a spring? |
| 12:48.59 | Funklord | are they just exposed pads on a PCB? |
| 12:55.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | unclear yet, we will try to find a conventient connection method |
| 12:56.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | could be anything from solder pads to testpads contactable by pogopins to a b2b connector |
| 12:58.57 | Funklord | you *could* make the pads fit some very common SMD connector (b2b for example) but leave it up to the user to actually mount one there |
| 12:59.34 | Funklord | that way you sould use either a spring method or a connector |
| 12:59.59 | Funklord | s/sould/could/ |
| 13:00.13 | Funklord | haha, nice bot |
| 13:04.40 | Funklord | DocScrutinizer05: btw, have you done any work with the NAND and MTD devices in general? |
| 13:05.43 | Funklord | information about MTD/UBIFS is sketchy and generally very out of date on the internet |
| 13:05.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | work? |
| 13:05.55 | *** join/#neo900 Neros (~quassel@2001:660:2402:14:a11:96ff:fe78:3144) |
| 13:05.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh, erm |
| 13:06.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think there are 1 or two places to read about mtd and ubifs, but in general I agree |
| 13:06.59 | Funklord | DocScrutinizer05: like, couldn't you use huge amounts of normal flash rather than the eMMC? |
| 13:07.52 | Funklord | does UBIFS still have limitations when it comes to huge flash spaces? |
| 13:09.11 | Funklord | at least on my N900 there's an enormous difference in access times between the NAND and eMMC |
| 13:11.03 | *** join/#neo900 kratz00_1ork (~stpa2497@194.136.18.134) |
| 13:12.40 | Funklord | I'm just curious |
| 13:13.03 | Funklord | in case you've already investigated these things |
| 13:15.54 | Funklord | Oh, the largest NAND flash fully supported by OpenOCD is 2 GiBytes (16 GiBits) |
| 13:16.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're investigating amount of NAND we will spend for N900 (prolly 1GB) and we look into fastest available eMMC technology available, up to 64GB or even 128GB (No NAND available of that size) |
| 13:17.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | we also investigate options to attach a SSD with huge RAM buffer via internal USB |
| 13:18.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | we actually even briefly joked about simply adding a second SoC for that |
| 13:20.15 | Funklord | how about these? http://www.micron.com/products/nand-flash/slc-nand |
| 13:20.41 | Funklord | you've got up to 512G (bit I presume) |
| 13:20.59 | Funklord | is the board 3.3V? |
| 13:24.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/solid-state-drives/solid-state-drives-530-series.html mSATA ;-P |
| 13:27.20 | Funklord | IMO it's better to do ECC and wear leveling in linux rather than some unknown FTL algorithm |
| 13:27.55 | Funklord | and you can do neat tricks like on-the-fly compression and execute in place |
| 13:28.03 | Funklord | saves a lot of ram |
| 13:28.38 | *** join/#neo900 merlin1991 (~merlin@Maemo/community/cssu/merlin1991) |
| 13:29.16 | Funklord | that is, assuming that UBIFS can handle 64Gb ... which I don't know |
| 13:46.21 | Funklord | MT29F256G08CJABAWP:B 32Gb SLC-NAND for $34, comes in a TSOP48 so it's easy to diy solder |
| 13:53.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://tweet-search-stream.gimite.net/search?q=neo900&hl=en |
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| 20:24.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, we're about to sanitize the sitation on neo900.org |
| 20:24.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | situation even |
| 20:26.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: do you think you could coordinate change in parsing and syntax of https://shop.goldelico.com/campaign/9603.php with Nikolaus? |
| 20:27.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: and what about my idea to get that fancy X/Y diagram instead of a simple progress bar? feasible? crazy? simple? |
| 20:43.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: the data to display basically doesn't change, but the progress bar changes to an icon that transports a message better than a wall of text |
| 20:48.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm just wondering what to do with Y axis. Obviously we can't write hard EUR values there. Maybe cost%? Setting the Y-axis 100% mark to the level of 200 devices (on X-axis). drawing a dotted line from that 200units/100% datapoint to the 1unit/4000% or at least the 10units/500% datapoint. And a solid line to some 1000units/70% datapoint |
| 20:48.57 | Ken-Young | Perhaps something time-related, like euros/day? |
| 20:49.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope, just make the progress bar progress along the graph in this diagram |
| 20:50.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | so it's pretty clear on first glance that more devices to sell means lower cost per device |
| 20:51.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | and watching the dynamic datapoint move along that diagram graph with each new value that's now simply increasing length of a bar in a rectangle |
| 20:53.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | no matter if you can read english text or you're an arab that only knows numbers and maybe the "€" and "%" sign, you instantly understand what this is all about |
| 20:54.28 | *** join/#neo900 kolp_ (~quassel@212.255.234.27) |
| 20:54.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | good example (though ours will even outsmart that one): http://gigazine.net/news/20130913-phonebloks/ |
| 20:55.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | poor example: http://gigazine.net/news/20131101-neo900-openphoenux-project/ |
| 21:01.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | GOD! Idiocy will never become extinct: Kaacz @JollaUSA Result? Neo900 bulshit PR info is wrong. :) Maemo4 isn't free, rest is not for phone. Nothing about Ubuntu Touch adaptation.. |
| 21:03.33 | JoHnY | OMG OMG neo900 is not free! OMG! I want my donation back!!! |
| 21:06.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, maemo4 isn't free, don't ask me how's that related to Neo900 |
| 21:07.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, you never ever can be so smart that you would compensate for idiocy out there to make a neutral statement out of it |
| 21:08.38 | JoHnY | well, don't let these people distract you... it's not worth it |
| 21:09.03 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: (php script) I'll modify the script to work with both formats, so then Nikolaus will be able to change it without without any explicit coordination |
| 21:09.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe "Neo900 concept of absolute freedom is so radical and groundbreaking that a lot of interested people simply don't manage to wrap their head around it" |
| 21:10.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: great :-) |
| 21:10.15 | dos1 | X/Y diagram - sec, let me re-read it |
| 21:12.47 | dos1 | lots of different visualisations are feasible - just some of them might need to wait for weekend or two to be done :P |
| 21:32.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: look how I suck, but *maybe* it transports the idea http://wstaw.org/m/2013/11/06/plasma-desktopDh3743.png |
| 21:33.28 | dos1 | yep, I see |
| 21:33.39 | dos1 | but I fear it *might* be a bit overcomplicated |
| 21:34.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | overcomplicated to implement or to read and understand? |
| 21:35.20 | dos1 | to read and understand |
| 21:35.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't thnk so, Users love diagrams |
| 21:35.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course better ones than this one |
| 21:36.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is not overcomplicated, it's simply butt ugly |
| 21:36.58 | dos1 | okay, let's try it |
| 21:37.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | we might want to stretch X-axis by factor 5 in size, to more make it like a bar in shape |
| 21:37.53 | dos1 | but I won't promise any delivery date, maybe except "before the end of this week" as in "maybe today, maybe on sunday" :P |
| 21:38.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | no probelm, though you know the sooner always the better. But we all have a life to live |
| 21:41.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | (I bet nobody believes me in that last part ;-P) |
| 21:45.24 | *** join/#neo900 pascal (~pascal@2a02:120b:2c71:ddc0:b43d:2c05:11b0:7234) |
| 22:02.58 | x29a | too bad the donation site doesnt feature amazon/paypal |
| 22:08.15 | lexik | I was talking with Kaacz yesterday, i have no idea why he don't like our project so much... |
| 22:09.25 | lexik | he is quite informed about Mer/MeeGo/Maemo... but [don't know why] he is fanatic Jolla fanboy (imho) |
| 22:10.13 | *** part/#neo900 hbib (~wurmel@pD9528ACA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:11.23 | lexik | He (and many others czech linux guys) trust that Jolla will be more hacker-friendly than Neo900 and that Other Half will solve everything... |
| 22:13.26 | dos1 | interesting |
| 22:14.46 | lexik | it's not interesting, it's sad :-/ |
| 22:14.52 | pascal | does hacker freindly mean open? |
| 22:14.55 | JoHnY | hmm |
| 22:15.11 | lexik | pascal: eem.. yes. |
| 22:18.05 | dos1 | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8497686/neo900/chart2.png |
| 22:18.20 | dos1 | daily number of visits on neo900.org |
| 22:19.16 | dos1 | the last dot has still 45 min to go up ;) (it's UTC +1) |
| 22:21.11 | pascal | last dot++ |
| 22:22.15 | pascal | Is the design of the neo900 really exactly like the n900 design or is the picture just a placeholder? |
| 22:22.19 | lexik | I'm thinking about Xbox One concept - some things are computed on cloud, some things on device, if the connection with LTE will be enough fast, maybe someone (*me* - nice dream) could code some layer which will compute part of (for example) OpenGL things on Google Compute Engine :D (Only OMAP3?! Shut up, it's grid of Xeon CPU's and 64GB RAM :D) |
| 22:22.30 | dos1 | pascal: neo900 will use the n900 case |
| 22:23.00 | dos1 | there won't be any new case produced for neo900 |
| 22:23.19 | lexik | (exluding the Estel's one....) |
| 22:23.58 | dos1 | yeah, community efforts always welcomed :) |
| 22:27.42 | pascal | intressting I liked the n900 case. |
| 22:35.43 | pascal | but the display could be improved for today. |
| 22:38.20 | kolp | No, because its not part of the n900's mainboard |
| 22:50.32 | lexik | pascal: find display compatible with n900's motherboard, 3,5' and then: okey, maybe |
| 23:03.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: kan this R.K. dude get any more idiotic and uninformed but cocky |
| 23:03.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | can* |
| 23:04.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | lexik: Kaacz informed about mer/nemo? LOL, if he was then he wouldn't claim it can't run on Neo900 |
| 23:07.15 | dos1 | I'm still waiting for him to give me one example of "non phone os" listed on the page other than Debian :D |
| 23:08.26 | lexik | he is meego fanatic, everything other than meego/nemo/sailfish is 'non phone os' :D |
| 23:25.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | he's a mo... errr he for sure has no clue what he's talking about |
| 23:26.17 | kolp | Why do you guys even bother... :) |
| 23:27.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed a good question. Maybe because he's too loud but still has no damn clue about anything. "phone OS" WTF? |
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