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| 16:58.07 | juhaj | Err... Am I mising something when apt thinks any package from http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com is unsigned? |
| 17:03.47 | itsnotabigtruck | no, you aren't |
| 17:04.14 | itsnotabigtruck | you need to remove the apt repo from sources.list and update, then install the package using dpkg -i |
| 17:17.27 | juhaj | Why on Earth would I do that? |
| 17:18.15 | juhaj | Normally, on Debian that is, this situation is solved with apt-key and if a key is nowhere to be found, you just answer "Y" to the question "Install these packages without verification [y/N]?" |
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| 17:41.59 | jonni | you are not supposed to use that repo on device, since that repo is only for sdk |
| 17:52.26 | juhaj | jonni: Ok. And the harm done by using it on a device is..? |
| 17:53.32 | jonni | juhaj: packages are unsigned and do not match the version numbers of pr1.2 release, which can cause depency problems, like all packages beeing uninstalled and bricking the device |
| 17:54.17 | juhaj | jonni: So assuming just installs of packages, no harm should be done? |
| 17:54.46 | juhaj | jonni: Or is there some scenario where the phone automatically uninstalls stuff without asking me? |
| 17:55.35 | jonni | juhaj: well if you overwrite com.nokia.maemo origin packages with unsigned ones, your device will not boot up after reboot. |
| 17:56.02 | juhaj | (I am looking at the kdepim-mobile packages again: now they managed to build it without a need to use dpkg --force-* to install them, but they still depend on stuff from harmattan-dev |
| 17:56.05 | juhaj | ) |
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| 17:56.38 | juhaj | So either they have not bothered reading the developer guidelines or they knowingly ignore them (for a good reason, I hope) |
| 17:56.43 | jonni | juhaj: and those packages are not avail in community obs / rzr repo? |
| 17:57.30 | jonni | usually --force needs to be avoided at all costs, as usually that causes your device not to bootup anymore (force can be only used in openmode devices) |
| 17:57.57 | juhaj | jonni: Yes, I learned that the hard way when I first tried the kdepim-mobile |
| 17:58.15 | juhaj | That's why I refused to try again until they made new packages which do not require --force |
| 17:58.39 | juhaj | But, like I said, they still need stuff from harmattan-dev, which you now tell me is ALSO a concern |
| 17:59.05 | juhaj | Am I correct in assuming that PR 1.3 will most likely break the packages when 1.3 arrives? |
| 17:59.05 | jonni | there is always a kludge way to overcome that, with all capa opensh, you can install custom trustet gpg key, ie if you download needed depency packages to your own repo, and sign it with your gpg key, you can get them as trusted without depency or origin conflicts. |
| 17:59.19 | jonni | but thats only for advanced users that know what they are doing. |
| 17:59.29 | juhaj | I think I can also just answer "y" to apt, can I not? |
| 17:59.52 | juhaj | But that was not my concern. The concern was your comment about "not supposed to be installed on phone" |
| 18:00.14 | jonni | I would never install anything from harmattan-dev to device, as if you do install, then the ssu update to next pr version will most likely fail |
| 18:01.04 | jonni | you would be better off to download the depency package sources, and compile then yourself on scratchbox, and then install them manually without harmattan-dev repo |
| 18:02.27 | itsnotabigtruck | juhaj: still around? |
| 18:02.32 | jonni | or switch to open mode, and use AEGIS_FIXED_ORIGIN=com.nokia.maemo to install packages as nokia origin. |
| 18:02.56 | juhaj | itsnotabigtruck: Yep |
| 18:03.18 | itsnotabigtruck | when installing a package, aegis attempts to authenticate it based on the apt repo it came from |
| 18:03.33 | ToAruShiroiNeko | can I make my N9 cease asking if I want to be roaming |
| 18:03.41 | itsnotabigtruck | they introduced a bug in PR1.2 they refuse to fix that causes it to bomb out if the package is provided from certain unsigned repos |
| 18:03.44 | itsnotabigtruck | such as nokia's sdk repo |
| 18:03.57 | itsnotabigtruck | there's no key you can add with apt-key because that repo isn't signed at all |
| 18:04.03 | itsnotabigtruck | (and they aren't doing anything about that either) |
| 18:04.11 | juhaj | jonni: I see, except for one thing: how would that solve the upgrade to the next PR issue? |
| 18:05.11 | jonni | juhaj: if you install them as com.nokia.maemo origin, then upgrade should be successfull, but if you do com.nokia.maemo/local on system packages then ssu will fail. |
| 18:05.18 | juhaj | itsnotabigtruck: Aah, so what you are saying is what would work on any sane apt/dpkg (answering "y") does not in fact work on N9? |
| 18:06.56 | juhaj | jonni: So which one of these is which? =) I mean, if I compile them on my own, do I get "install them as com.nokia.maemo origin" or the other one? [I am assuming using AEGIS_FIXED_ORIGIN=com.nokia.maemo gives the other) |
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| 18:08.13 | juhaj | itsnotabigtruck: And because of that, I need to do what you explained in the first place. |
| 18:08.16 | jonni | without using capability 'exploits' your screwed on closed mode, and on open mode you can just use the export |
| 18:08.18 | itsnotabigtruck | juhaj: well, something important to note is that 'dpkg' on n9 isn't dpkg |
| 18:08.31 | itsnotabigtruck | it's a really complicated perl script that handles the meat of the aegis stuff |
| 18:08.50 | juhaj | is starting to feel a bit frustrated by N9 looking like a Debian but not really being anything of the sort |
| 18:09.11 | itsnotabigtruck | well, it certainly is "anything of the sort" |
| 18:09.18 | juhaj | I.e. all the usual tools seem to be there, but are not the usual tools in anything by name |
| 18:09.24 | itsnotabigtruck | you just have to know the pitfalls and what to do about them |
| 18:09.40 | juhaj | s/by/but/ |
| 18:09.58 | itsnotabigtruck | now, as for the sdk packages stuff, i think jonni is going a bit overboard with the doom and gloom |
| 18:10.01 | juhaj | Oh, infobot is quite helpful there =) |
| 18:10.10 | itsnotabigtruck | in theory, you're not supposed to install sdk packages on the phone, they're intended for scratchbox |
| 18:10.16 | jonni | with exploited capas, you can ofcourse replace the dpkg to allowd unsigned repoes, but normal users dont know howto do that |
| 18:10.29 | itsnotabigtruck | in practice, the sdk repo has lots of miscellaneous stuff that one might find useful and that works fine on the phone |
| 18:10.36 | juhaj | jonni: I am not sure I want to know (yet) either =) |
| 18:10.48 | itsnotabigtruck | in general, installing sdk packages won't break upgrades or do anything else nasty |
| 18:10.55 | itsnotabigtruck | however you want to be careful what you install |
| 18:11.27 | juhaj | itsnotabigtruck: Breaking upgrades is not an issue: I can always uninstall them if that happens. Bricking is, however, a big issue |
| 18:11.28 | itsnotabigtruck | and doing an SSU after messing with system packages definitely tends to be a good way to (temporarily) brick your phone |
| 18:11.41 | itsnotabigtruck | well, if your phone is bricked, you can just flash it |
| 18:11.50 | juhaj | It's still annoying |
| 18:11.56 | itsnotabigtruck | mind you, you'll lose any data that's on the phone, so you should probably be pretty religious about backing up data you care about |
| 18:12.05 | itsnotabigtruck | but it's not like there's any severe consequencies |
| 18:12.42 | juhaj | Well, I do not tend to be the religious type, unfortunately, so there might well be nasty consequences |
| 18:13.00 | jonni | you can actually disable the malf screen from blocking the boot, but that also requires you to do some magic trickery. |
| 18:13.14 | juhaj | (I do not even know how to back up texts, calendar and address book!) |
| 18:13.42 | itsnotabigtruck | it's not very easy |
| 18:13.52 | itsnotabigtruck | the easiest way is with nokia suite (windows only) |
| 18:13.54 | juhaj | jonni: Well... that might be nice as it would allow at least backing up after "bricking" |
| 18:14.08 | juhaj | itsnotabigtruck: That's what I was afraid of. |
| 18:14.14 | itsnotabigtruck | and nokia, for reasons unknown, deliberately prevented newer versions of nokia suite from working with the n9 |
| 18:14.17 | itsnotabigtruck | even though it works just fine |
| 18:14.23 | itsnotabigtruck | so you have to use nokia suite BEFORE version 3.3 |
| 18:14.49 | juhaj | itsnotabigtruck: I do have another way, though: I can back it up onto Nokia 5800 XpressMusic using Nokias "sync" facility and then back 5800 up to my laptop (I *can* do that without windows) |
| 18:14.59 | juhaj | But that is too complicated to do regularly |
| 18:15.00 | ToAruShiroiNeko | itsnotabigtruck oh I know why |
| 18:15.38 | ToAruShiroiNeko | Its Nokias new strategy to seek bankrupcy :3 |
| 18:15.39 | itsnotabigtruck | well, the reason is that everything not allowed is forbidden, and in this case all they want to allow is the official n9 sync tool, link |
| 18:15.42 | juhaj | itsnotabigtruck: What?!? So there is officially no way of syncing N9 and a computer?!? |
| 18:15.43 | itsnotabigtruck | haha |
| 18:15.59 | ToAruShiroiNeko | juhaj you can use your nokia profile |
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| 18:16.00 | itsnotabigtruck | well, nokia link is the official sync tool but it's only for media, not PIM data like contacts |
| 18:16.02 | ToAruShiroiNeko | and google |
| 18:16.03 | jonni | itsnotabigtruck: I've made my commandline backup utility, which calls the backup frameform over dbus and makes unencrypted backups of the databases, its really handy on restoring backups on multiple devices :) |
| 18:16.11 | jonni | framework even |
| 18:17.00 | ToAruShiroiNeko | I am rather disapointed in meegoo to be honest |
| 18:17.49 | juhaj | jonni: Would you mind sharing that? |
| 18:18.41 | juhaj | jonni: And as you seem to know the dbus interfaces on N9, would you be able to advise me on how to read/write text messages (and perhaps calendar, too) using dbus, too? :D |
| 18:19.12 | juhaj | itsnotabigtruck: So it's "sync to nokia or google, otherwise, fuck off"? |
| 18:19.45 | itsnotabigtruck | juhaj: sort of, or use nokia suite |
| 18:19.49 | itsnotabigtruck | or you could use the integrated backup facility |
| 18:19.54 | itsnotabigtruck | i think it does do PIM data |
| 18:19.59 | itsnotabigtruck | it doesn't do, notably, SMS messages |
| 18:20.14 | juhaj | itsnotabigtruck: Well, that's it then. It does not do 50% of what I want =) |
| 18:20.15 | itsnotabigtruck | which seems to be some kind of bug |
| 18:20.28 | itsnotabigtruck | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83166 |
| 18:20.34 | itsnotabigtruck | it looks like someone wrote a command line app to do SMS |
| 18:21.02 | itsnotabigtruck | you're right that this area ended up pretty half-baked...many parts of harmattan would have been so much better if nokia did some followthrough for once |
| 18:21.18 | juhaj | I can script all the stuff I can access in the file system, no problem there, but that leaves PIM and SMS using some other method. Any method would do, but is it really not possible to get those data to my computer? |
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| 18:21.24 | itsnotabigtruck | but, well, i'm pretty sure we all knew what we were getting into with this, so just do with it |
| 18:21.33 | suosaaski | Hi! Is there a way to migrate SMS from Symbian Belle to Nokia N9? The integrated wizard on the phone fails with the SMS (works for contacts etc, though). Trying to send the SMS from the Belle device says that the other device (N9) is not supported. Running PR1.2... |
| 18:21.55 | itsnotabigtruck | suosaaski: if you have windows on your pc, try using nokia suite 3.2 |
| 18:21.58 | jonni | Im still holding off releasing that, depending if coding competition will allow exploited capas :), You can read text messages and calendar for exmple with sqlite commandline by making sql queries to databases. ofcourse dbus interfaces might be avail too. |
| 18:22.00 | juhaj | True. We all knew this was a dead product even before it was born. =( |
| 18:22.03 | itsnotabigtruck | it has to be 3.2, it can't be newer than that |
| 18:22.39 | itsnotabigtruck | also, isn't TrackerReadAccess all you need to read most of the PIM information? |
| 18:22.44 | itsnotabigtruck | i.e. not "exploited capas" |
| 18:22.53 | suosaaski | why 3.2? iirc nokia suite wont work with n9, but if it needs the older one to work then maybe... |
| 18:23.18 | itsnotabigtruck | because it did work until 3.3 |
| 18:23.40 | itsnotabigtruck | in 3.2 it'll let you add it, listing it as Nokia N9 (UNSUPPORTED) or something like that |
| 18:23.52 | itsnotabigtruck | and it works perfectly |
| 18:24.40 | jonni | itsnotabigtruck: backup-framework::backup is not avail for normal unsigned packages. |
| 18:25.09 | juhaj | itsnotabigtruck: Thanks for the link. I'll look into that one! |
| 18:25.52 | jonni | itsnotabigtruck: ah you were comming to juhaj and not me, my bad :) |
| 18:27.08 | itsnotabigtruck | jonni: well, the aegis thing was to you, everything else was to suosaaski |
| 18:27.15 | itsnotabigtruck | anyway, hm |
| 18:28.04 | suosaaski | So, now just to find a download for the old version... |
| 18:28.18 | itsnotabigtruck | also jonni: i don't see why the lack of automagic git download on obs is a big problem |
| 18:28.25 | itsnotabigtruck | just do a dpkg-buildpackage -S and drop the files in and you're set |
| 18:29.22 | itsnotabigtruck | that said, if your package requires incepting, it doesn't really make sense to submit it to AfM, being that it won't be installed with the right creds |
| 18:30.34 | jonni | itsnotabigtruck: well its not a big problem as such, I've just gotten used to that I can put SHA from my git repo to smc_tar and get custom versions build. looks like that community obs still can download urls, and gitorious offers tar.gz url for origin master. so it can be semi automatic if I just trigger services. |
| 18:31.37 | jonni | and no, I was not planning to put packages that require incepting on afm. Was just testing one different project that I have. |
| 18:32.36 | jonni | plus I also have vpnc client under planning, but dont know if I have time to code that, depends on timelines of the competition. |
| 18:33.50 | suosaaski | make a software that uses the front camera so that the device wont go into screensaver when there is a person staring at the phone :S |
| 18:34.01 | itsnotabigtruck | hehe |
| 18:34.20 | itsnotabigtruck | suosaaski: oh, also, importantly, make sure you're offline when you launch the nokia suite installer |
| 18:34.26 | itsnotabigtruck | once you start installing you can plug back in |
| 18:34.37 | itsnotabigtruck | it checks for updates when you launch the installer and refuses to let you continue if it's old |
| 18:34.51 | suosaaski | Quick googling suggested to disable automatic updating |
| 18:35.04 | itsnotabigtruck | you do that after it's already installed |
| 18:35.06 | itsnotabigtruck | this is before it's installed |
| 18:35.10 | suosaaski | after installation |
| 18:35.33 | suosaaski | I was thinking of going "offline" from start of installation till automatic updates are disabled |
| 18:36.17 | suosaaski | But I wonder why one site suggested first installing 3.0, disabling the updates, plugging n9 in, then upgrading to 3.2? |
| 18:36.58 | itsnotabigtruck | that isn't necessary |
| 18:37.02 | itsnotabigtruck | at least, i don't think it is |
| 18:37.15 | itsnotabigtruck | the simplified procedure works fine |
| 18:37.50 | suosaaski | probably 3.0 doesn't check for the updates during install and that is why it was suggested. Easier to go offline :) |
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