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| 06:18.00 | Necrosporus | Nokia application store asks for nokia account even for downloading free apps |
| 06:18.31 | sakkemo | Necrosporus: true |
| 06:18.31 | Necrosporus | Is there any other "store" app around to install only free apps, but not asking for any account? |
| 06:18.48 | Necrosporus | Also it lacks search criterion |
| 06:19.32 | petteri | there is appsformeego, but it does have all the same free apps |
| 06:19.50 | petteri | i would just make the nokia account, it would make your life so much easier :) |
| 06:20.41 | Necrosporus | petteri, I'm not going to buy anything |
| 06:21.02 | petteri | so? |
| 06:21.27 | Necrosporus | And so payable applications only soil my view, so other store app which doesn't display it at all would be preferable |
| 06:21.50 | petteri | not possible |
| 06:21.56 | petteri | as stated earlier here |
| 06:22.07 | Necrosporus | Also I would like to filter application by license to install GPL apps only |
| 06:22.45 | petteri | we all want strange things :) |
| 06:23.13 | Necrosporus | It's not strange, but perfectly |
| 06:23.42 | Necrosporus | I mean, not only GPL, but also BSD and other free libre apps, but not ones which are not opensource |
| 06:24.49 | petteri | appsformeego is what you are looking for: http://apps.formeego.org/applications/ |
| 06:25.23 | petteri | probably best to help the guys running it, the need it |
| 06:25.29 | petteri | they |
| 06:26.45 | Necrosporus | How to remove official store app? It doesn't have cross sign on |
| 06:27.34 | jonni | well with ovi web search api you can limit your searches for free only |
| 06:29.32 | sakkemo | Necrosporus: are applications that cost but are GPL off limits too then? |
| 06:30.29 | Necrosporus | I guess, there's no such apps |
| 06:30.45 | Necrosporus | "Cost" means license fee, doesn't it? |
| 06:30.49 | jonni | ah yes there are some ovi store apps that are not free and are also GPL |
| 06:30.57 | Necrosporus | How so? |
| 06:31.05 | jonni | cost doesnt mean that |
| 06:31.13 | jonni | you can ask money for GPL apps too |
| 06:31.30 | Necrosporus | Than someone may buy such an app and upload it somewhere legally |
| 06:31.52 | Necrosporus | So there's no point for demanding money for software itself |
| 06:31.58 | jonni | Necrosporus: nope you are not allowed to redistribute nokia signed debs |
| 06:32.15 | jonni | Necrosporus: it only means that app developer also needs to provide sourcecodes if someone asks for it |
| 06:32.24 | jonni | Necrosporus: it doesnt mean that you can get the nokia signed deb |
| 06:33.00 | sakkemo | Necrosporus: some people also pay for the app for support even though the source code may be available elsewhere (distributed by others, as is their right) |
| 06:33.21 | Necrosporus | I know, but it's for support. I do not need it |
| 06:33.28 | jonni | so app developer is charging for you for compiling and putting the deb available for ovistore, vs you getting the sources and compiling yourself |
| 06:34.19 | jonni | like Stellarium costs 1euro from ovi store, even when its GPL |
| 06:34.47 | Necrosporus | How can I be not allowed? |
| 06:35.06 | jonni | ofcourse it allowed, GPL licence allows it |
| 06:36.12 | Necrosporus | So I can ask someone who bought stellarium app to upload the deb, right? |
| 06:36.38 | jonni | Necrosporus: nope you cannot, as ovi store forbids to redistribute nokia signed binaries |
| 06:36.58 | Necrosporus | Doesn't such restriction violate GPL? |
| 06:37.03 | jonni | Necrosporus: but you can ask someone to compile the GPL sources and give you the non-signed deb pacakge |
| 06:37.23 | jonni | Necrosporus: as you are allowed to receive the nonsigned package |
| 06:37.35 | jonni | (receive and distribute) |
| 06:38.17 | sakkemo | jonni: so the one who buys it can ask for source code, then compile and distribute it? |
| 06:38.47 | jonni | sakkemo: you dont even have to buy it, you can compile yourself without buying |
| 06:39.55 | jonni | (and stellarium author also offers non-singed deb precompiled for free in his website). |
| 06:40.51 | Necrosporus | for N9? |
| 06:40.56 | jonni | yep |
| 06:41.07 | Necrosporus | What's the point of signed one than? Any difference? |
| 06:42.09 | jonni | Necrosporus: well point is ease of use, you can just clock on ovi store client and its installed, vs the manual steps you first downloading the deb, moving it to your device and installing with dpkg -i |
| 06:42.45 | jonni | (and on some applications there is the difference or ovi store origin and unknown source policy, you need to allow deb packages from unknown source) |
| 06:43.01 | jonni | s/clock/click/ |
| 06:43.43 | Necrosporus | So if I download signed deb somewhere, can I install it with click in file manager? |
| 06:43.55 | jonni | N9 doesnt have filemanager |
| 06:43.59 | jonni | (by default) |
| 06:44.08 | Necrosporus | There's ones |
| 06:44.33 | jonni | but yes 3rd party managers exists, and clicking on those will install deb |
| 06:44.51 | Necrosporus | But only signed deb, right? |
| 06:45.16 | jonni | they will install unsigned debs too, if you allow it from the settings |
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| 07:02.13 | Necrosporus | jonni, doesn't aegis prevent something unsigned application can do? |
| 07:05.40 | jonni | yes it does, prevents running as root etc, but for normal apps that dont use any capas or doesnt need root, it doesnt affect in anyways |
| 07:07.02 | Necrosporus | What are aegis caps? |
| 07:07.52 | jonni | Necrosporus: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Harmattan_security_Security_guide.html |
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| 08:29.41 | itsnotabigtruck | ehm...the GPL probably spreads to the signature too |
| 08:29.47 | itsnotabigtruck | if signatures even can be copyrighted |
| 08:29.51 | itsnotabigtruck | there's no artistic value in them |
| 08:29.54 | itsnotabigtruck | so likely not |
| 08:30.38 | itsnotabigtruck | this sort of stuff is why apple baninates gpl stuff entirely to some extent |
| 08:30.41 | itsnotabigtruck | heh |
| 08:31.04 | juhaj | My calendar, todo have stopped starting completely. What can I do? |
| 08:31.14 | itsnotabigtruck | i guess, if the submitter controls the copyright to the entire program, then nokia could put something in their contract that forces you to relicense it as non-gpl |
| 08:31.34 | itsnotabigtruck | but if the program contains gpl code copyrighted by others, then that forces it to gpl always |
| 08:31.41 | itsnotabigtruck | but then, this is a matter of the packaging, not the code itself |
| 08:31.54 | itsnotabigtruck | juhaj: reflash? /me shrugs |
| 08:34.29 | petteri | distributing gpl apps is quite problematic, as the distributor should make sure that all sources are available |
| 08:35.28 | petteri | i think ovi store just trusts the author to have working link for the sources, but that maybe not true |
| 08:36.28 | itsnotabigtruck | petteri: hm |
| 08:36.45 | juhaj | itsnotabigtruck: really? I have tried to avoid installing anything which might screw my phone. Is there no way of debugging it, like running from command line? |
| 08:37.09 | itsnotabigtruck | anyway, in any case, i don't think nokia has any basis for claiming distributing an ovi-signed deb is copyright infringement, if distributing an unsigned one isn't |
| 08:37.35 | itsnotabigtruck | because it's your package, your copyright, and they aren't adding anything of significance |
| 08:37.53 | itsnotabigtruck | but, what they could do is boot your app out of the store, or boot you out of the store, if they see you distributing the signed deb |
| 08:37.58 | juhaj | I cannot really see how an app can suddenly stop working without a way of fixing it without drastic measures like reflash |
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| 14:07.02 | juhaj | I got my calendar to work agaon by clicking on a calendar entry in my feed. Previously it would not start no matter what. |
| 14:07.40 | juhaj | Any idea why this happened and how can I avoid it in the future? |
| 14:30.17 | pa | is this any safe? |
| 14:30.21 | pa | http://www.n9fanclub.com/2012/04/sc-fm-radio-n9-with-rds-130-nokia-n9.html |
| 14:34.30 | kozzi | .no |
| 14:38.27 | DocScrutinizer | pa: safe? |
| 14:38.36 | DocScrutinizer | how could it be "unsafe"? |
| 14:42.35 | DocScrutinizer | FYI, it's based on javispedro's incredible work: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=30916#post30916 |
| 14:43.09 | pa | ah okay, didnt know that |
| 14:43.20 | pa | coz i saw a couple of fm radios for money recently |
| 14:43.25 | pa | so i was wondering |
| 14:45.43 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, javispedro is pretty pissed about that |
| 14:46.45 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, javispedro is pretty pissed about that unbearable website http://www.n9fanclub.com |
| 14:46.50 | DocScrutinizer | errrks |
| 14:47.02 | DocScrutinizer | is pretty pissed about that unbearable website http://www.n9fanclub.com |
| 14:48.00 | DocScrutinizer | and no, this site doesn't feel like "safe" at all |
| 14:48.27 | DocScrutinizer | I actually suspected it's trying to rape my PC |
| 14:50.37 | DocScrutinizer | so, I suggest you don't spend any money on any of the FM radios |
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| 14:52.56 | DocScrutinizer | [2012-03-24 18:12:43] <javispedro> plus, there are now two payware fmradio apps on the ovi store |
| 14:52.57 | DocScrutinizer | [2012-03-24 18:12:52] <javispedro> all of them of course rip my work |
| 14:55.36 | DocScrutinizer | [2012-03-24 18:19:51] <javispedro> one of them is indeed releasing the sources |
| 14:55.38 | DocScrutinizer | [2012-03-24 18:20:00] <javispedro> http://fm-radio.mobi/ |
| 14:55.39 | DocScrutinizer | [2012-03-24 18:20:22] <javispedro> weird guy |
| 14:55.41 | DocScrutinizer | [2012-03-24 18:31:07] <DocScrutinizer> >>We can promise that backend functionality will be always free and Open Source.<< bwahaha |
| 14:55.42 | DocScrutinizer | [2012-03-24 18:31:32] <javispedro> naturally |
| 14:55.44 | DocScrutinizer | [2012-03-24 18:31:33] <DocScrutinizer> I bet you can, dude |
| 14:55.45 | DocScrutinizer | [2012-03-24 18:31:59] <javispedro> the sad lesson is that I now feel it is stupid to do opensource on this platform |
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| 14:59.23 | suy | ouch, now I feel pretty bad, because I actually payed for one of those radio apps... :-( |
| 14:59.23 | pa | well |
| 14:59.39 | pa | why didnt he release a little radio app for free then? |
| 14:59.44 | suy | i thought the backend was lgpl or something |
| 15:00.44 | pa | then there would be no reason to make one for money |
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| 15:41.00 | itsnotabigtruck | well, if you feel like pirating apps, you could validate the ovi signature to verify that you're pirating the authentic thing |
| 15:41.33 | itsnotabigtruck | regarding the fm radio stuff, it is awfully lame...also the one with the retro gui is supposedly open source but the source is drastically out of date |
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| 19:59.59 | pa | but i mean |
| 20:00.04 | pa | is there a free radio app for N9? |
| 20:00.11 | pa | otherwise what is the problem? |
| 20:00.14 | pa | i dont understand |
| 20:00.26 | pa | no, i dont have pirated apps at least atm |
| 20:06.23 | petteri | i thought open source was about letting other people use your work |
| 20:08.12 | suy | but if the framework is GPL, the result in almost all cases has to be GPL |
| 20:09.49 | itsnotabigtruck | well, ideally it should be a two-way exchange |
| 20:10.10 | itsnotabigtruck | just exploiting oss stuff to your own advantage is kind of parasitic |
| 20:10.17 | itsnotabigtruck | but most corporate use of open source is like that /me shrugs |
| 20:11.07 | suy | yeah, and it's a pity because some free software apps are being sold on the store |
| 20:11.30 | pa | still, is there a free radio app for N9? or is it only the backend that is free? |
| 20:11.38 | pa | or, say, open source |
| 20:12.39 | itsnotabigtruck | i think qmlradio is open source |
| 20:12.54 | pa | ah okay |
| 20:12.55 | pa | thanks |
| 20:12.59 | itsnotabigtruck | i think the complaint is that people went and took javispedro's radio work and rehashed it into expensive ovi store apps |
| 20:13.06 | itsnotabigtruck | when javispedro did the bulk of the work |
| 20:13.12 | itsnotabigtruck | that's parasitic |
| 20:13.33 | petteri | did javispedro email the n9 radio guys |
| 20:13.37 | pa | but i mean, why didnt he make a stupid guy, and push it out as full app? |
| 20:13.39 | itsnotabigtruck | they're probably gpl (or lgpl?) violating too, depending on exactly how the apps are structured |
| 20:13.41 | suy | btw, has javispedro tried writing to nokia about the issue? if it's illegal redistribution of gpl code, they should take the app down or something |
| 20:13.44 | pa | gui |
| 20:13.46 | pa | sorry |
| 20:13.50 | itsnotabigtruck | lol |
| 20:13.54 | pa | im getting dislexic |
| 20:14.01 | itsnotabigtruck | i think he didn't expect it would be ovi-permissible |
| 20:14.22 | pa | ah |
| 20:14.43 | petteri | license stuff is hard, i think most of the issues would be solved by explaining the license issues to the authors |
| 20:15.46 | suy | well, since I payed for the app, i should be able to ask the guy (or nokia?) for the source code of the app... after all, it's the only GPL requirement |
| 20:16.06 | petteri | suy: depends of the license of the backend |
| 20:16.21 | pa | suy, if it is gpl, you can ask even if u dont pay |
| 20:16.22 | petteri | so where is the backedn source? |
| 20:16.50 | itsnotabigtruck | https://gitorious.org/n950-fmrx/fmrxd |
| 20:16.56 | suy | pa: not sure, but you need redistribution, I think |
| 20:17.02 | itsnotabigtruck | that's the original backend |
| 20:17.16 | itsnotabigtruck | the ovi apps might have modified backend code, or have restructured things |
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| 20:17.30 | itsnotabigtruck | it's hard to tell without poking around in the actual app what the licensing situation is |
| 20:17.57 | pa | if the guy modified the backend (read, editing the files) then he still has to release it |
| 20:18.03 | suy | but if the app reuses that code, and links against it, it should be GPL |
| 20:18.05 | pa | only additional pieces can be kept |
| 20:18.21 | pa | well not |
| 20:18.24 | itsnotabigtruck | but the code is interest is the frontend |
| 20:18.41 | pa | if you just link against a library that is gpl you dont have torelease your code, i think |
| 20:18.46 | DocScrutinizer | if you read the *full* tmo thread I posted, you'll find a couple of FFOSS radio apps |
| 20:18.58 | itsnotabigtruck | pa: you do...but, in this case, the backend is a dbus service |
| 20:19.03 | itsnotabigtruck | so you don't really link against it |
| 20:19.14 | itsnotabigtruck | so that part of the gpl doesn't necessarily kick inn |
| 20:19.22 | pa | ah ok |
| 20:19.57 | petteri | i think it would easies to email the guys releasing the radio apps and ask them what is the deal |
| 20:20.00 | DocScrutinizer | AIUI there are at very least 4 open source and GPL radio apps linked in tmo thread |
| 20:20.17 | itsnotabigtruck | afaik there's qmlradio and an old version of one of the ovi store radios |
| 20:20.22 | itsnotabigtruck | that's it |
| 20:22.53 | itsnotabigtruck | also pa: you said something about not having pirated apps...n9fanclub is mostly pirated apps |
| 20:23.01 | pa | is it? |
| 20:23.06 | pa | didnt know about it |
| 20:23.23 | pa | i just collected a bunch of n9 related blogs |
| 20:23.26 | itsnotabigtruck | yeah, they basically rehost everything paid or not |
| 20:23.45 | itsnotabigtruck | i mean, i'm not putting up some huge moral objection, but that's what it is...if you want to go legit then you don't want that site |
| 20:23.51 | pa | like meegoexperts, mymeego, nokiagadgets etc |
| 20:24.03 | pa | ok thanks for telling :) |
| 20:24.08 | pa | also i never understood.. |
| 20:24.12 | pa | if i install a pirated deb |
| 20:24.19 | pa | how does it interact with the ovi store? |
| 20:24.25 | DocScrutinizer | n9fanclub site is an obvious blatant rippoff |
| 20:24.28 | itsnotabigtruck | what do you mean? it doesn't |
| 20:24.42 | pa | i mean, i actually compiled an open source app, with a slight edit |
| 20:24.47 | itsnotabigtruck | but you can ensure the deb is authentic (as in, downloaded from the ovi store) by doing aegis-origin on it |
| 20:24.47 | pa | and installed |
| 20:25.03 | itsnotabigtruck | if it says com.nokia.meego/ovi, it has a valid ovi store embedded signature |
| 20:25.03 | DocScrutinizer | plastered with rogue popup and banner ads |
| 20:25.11 | pa | and now harmattan wants to update it with the version in ovi store |
| 20:25.23 | petteri | i bought "fm radio n9", i will email strix code and ask them about the gpl issue |
| 20:25.29 | itsnotabigtruck | interesting, did oyu install it from the ovi store in the past |
| 20:25.34 | pa | hm |
| 20:25.36 | pa | yes |
| 20:25.39 | pa | then removed |
| 20:26.01 | itsnotabigtruck | that's why, i think |
| 20:26.08 | pa | i mean i kept the same name and stuff, coz it didnt package right otherwise, with qtcreator |
| 20:26.11 | pa | dunno why |
| 20:26.14 | itsnotabigtruck | anyway, https://www.google.com/search?ix=aca&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=site%3An9fanclub.com+inception wtf, they also never mentioned inception |
| 20:26.28 | pa | : ))))) |
| 20:26.29 | itsnotabigtruck | they did however repackage some of my other stuff, no mention of my handle anywhere |
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| 20:45.51 | petteri | harhar: http://pastebin.com/QRgwBvxC lets see how they respond |
| 20:56.36 | itsnotabigtruck | that seems a little aggressive but we'll find out :) |
| 21:55.46 | kozzi | hyvää vappua !!! |
| 22:15.57 | juhaj | itsnotabigtruck: Well, licences are there precisely for these kinds of situations, and from the earlier discussion I gather they had been notified previously, too, so the slightly aggressibve formulation seems warranted. |
| 22:20.48 | itsnotabigtruck | juhaj: fair enough |
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