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| 06:43.23 | ghjgfjghjbn | wth |
| 06:43.42 | ghjgfjghjbn | I took out my sim card. reinserted it, now it's asking for security code |
| 06:43.55 | ghjgfjghjbn | is this from track and protecT? |
| 06:44.23 | ghjgfjghjbn | okay it is lol |
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| 13:20.45 | *** topic/#n9 is N9 users meet here to chat about typical users' topics like case colors, best offers, hippest apps, screen protectors, etc. Basically all the things that are not development related. Developers will want to join #harmattan. This channel is logged, see ~logs |
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| 15:51.05 | bradfo_ | any card reader payment system? |
| 15:51.14 | bradfo_ | yet? |
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| 17:46.09 | virtuald | anyone seen a good keyboard case anywhere? |
| 19:06.20 | itsnotabigtruck | oh for fuck's sake :x |
| 19:07.55 | virtuald | itsnotabigtruck: what's up truckie? |
| 19:08.41 | itsnotabigtruck | virtuald: eh, just got muted on the other channel along with djszapi |
| 19:08.51 | virtuald | heh |
| 19:08.53 | itsnotabigtruck | after we got into a protracted debate about aegis along with everybody else |
| 19:09.36 | virtuald | å:D |
| 19:09.46 | virtuald | because he build what you're breaking? |
| 19:10.28 | itsnotabigtruck | that doesn't help things, and then there's certain individuals who just straight up hate the entire concept |
| 19:10.59 | itsnotabigtruck | and djszapi tends to get upset after hearing all complaining all the time from everybody about aegis |
| 19:11.10 | virtuald | :) |
| 19:11.22 | franz` | oh he's not here? |
| 19:11.28 | franz` | yay, secret talking behind his back channel! |
| 19:11.31 | itsnotabigtruck | haha |
| 19:11.34 | virtuald | as i understand it it's like selinux but more obscure and signature based |
| 19:11.35 | itsnotabigtruck | well, it *is* logged :p |
| 19:11.39 | itsnotabigtruck | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:12.08 | virtuald | a misguided attempt at improving security |
| 19:12.16 | franz` | next time that pops up I'm gonna bring up iOS-style jails. that always gets people fired up |
| 19:12.26 | franz` | you guys might have even come together to flame against a common enemy! |
| 19:12.45 | virtuald | when improving security should be anabling users to make informed decisions |
| 19:13.53 | virtuald | and sometimes preventing them/us/you from making bad decisions |
| 19:14.33 | virtuald | and it's all about deciding who's in control |
| 19:15.42 | virtuald | i believe bad security should be harder than good security |
| 19:16.30 | virtuald | but you can't protect against everything and "content providers" need to accept that fact |
| 19:16.53 | virtuald | it's not in the users interest to be restricted |
| 19:17.09 | virtuald | and evesdropped |
| 19:17.47 | virtuald | and right out bullied into compliance |
| 19:19.07 | virtuald | i don't know anyone who won't accept that there's certain radio frequencies that's reserved for certain companies and uses, though i', sure there's some extremists |
| 19:19.48 | virtuald | but that shouldn't restrict everyone else from having controll of their devices |
| 19:20.53 | virtuald | there's always ways that malware and organised crime (foreign intelligence for example) can be restricted |
| 19:22.42 | virtuald | but say if i want to run a different security solution than aegis on my n9 (grsecurity for example) |
| 19:22.46 | virtuald | can i do that? |
| 19:23.08 | virtuald | will that make me unable to use any software from the maemo/meego os? |
| 19:23.24 | franz` | probably? why would you though? and yes, lots of things expect aegis to be there that would break |
| 19:23.37 | franz` | 's why we work our way around aegis but don't outright remove it |
| 19:24.02 | virtuald | will that leave me without maps? |
| 19:24.23 | virtuald | because ovi maps is truly awesome |
| 19:28.22 | itsnotabigtruck | that's the thing, what makes aegis insecure is privilege escalation |
| 19:28.27 | itsnotabigtruck | which is precisely what a lot of apps rely on |
| 19:29.19 | itsnotabigtruck | i'm not sure what the best course of action is, working to make aegis more secure (once the phone is incepted, of course) |
| 19:29.34 | itsnotabigtruck | or working to keep aegis as far out of the way as possible without breaking everything |
| 19:29.48 | itsnotabigtruck | as it stands, aegis is somewhat obnoxious and quite insecure |
| 19:29.53 | franz` | lol |
| 19:30.19 | itsnotabigtruck | like i said on the other channel, they might have been able to pull it off were it a) a bit more comprehensive, b) strictly audited, c) built for purposes other than keeping 3rd party apps confined to limited access |
| 19:30.36 | franz` | d) weren't nokia |
| 19:30.43 | itsnotabigtruck | as it stands though, as long as a process can go from 0 permission to all permission under aegis |
| 19:30.50 | virtuald | i think there really needs to be some kind of MAC keeping malware out |
| 19:30.51 | itsnotabigtruck | having it there at all is pretty useless |
| 19:31.02 | virtuald | or out of control anyway |
| 19:31.09 | itsnotabigtruck | PASIV requires being root, but there's exploits to become root without devel-su too |
| 19:31.17 | franz` | let's be realistic though |
| 19:31.25 | franz` | do we really expect someone to make malware for harmattan? |
| 19:31.30 | itsnotabigtruck | franz`: no |
| 19:31.41 | itsnotabigtruck | they would have if harmattan took off, but well, nokia made sure that wouldn't happen |
| 19:31.43 | itsnotabigtruck | so it's all a moot point |
| 19:31.57 | franz` | so it's silly to worry about security |
| 19:32.08 | itsnotabigtruck | and it seems like most of this arguing is set in the context of an alternate universe where harmattan would have ruled the world |
| 19:32.13 | franz` | yeah |
| 19:32.14 | franz` | lol |
| 19:32.41 | itsnotabigtruck | but i still like the idea of fully-functional mac on my phone |
| 19:32.56 | itsnotabigtruck | aegis could have been a really effective really advanced way to keep your apps under your control |
| 19:32.58 | franz` | more power to ya |
| 19:33.11 | itsnotabigtruck | but, that's just not how it ended up being |
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| 19:33.49 | franz` | at least we're using android, where "having a file system" was considered a security issue |
| 19:33.50 | franz` | good times |
| 19:34.33 | virtuald | i've never had an android device :) |
| 19:36.13 | franz` | they're not very good devices to be had! |
| 19:37.52 | virtuald | well hardware wise the samsungs aren't that bad |
| 19:38.10 | virtuald | there's a dual sim s ii :p |
| 19:38.28 | virtuald | s iii is just around the corner |
| 19:38.47 | virtuald | and somewhat-flexible devices too |
| 19:38.59 | itsnotabigtruck | they're too bulky |
| 19:39.11 | itsnotabigtruck | and most of them aren't very aesthetically pleasing |
| 19:39.13 | itsnotabigtruck | a few are |
| 19:39.14 | virtuald | s ii isn't bulky |
| 19:39.31 | virtuald | i agree n9 looks better than s ii |
| 19:50.35 | franz` | hardware is mostly meaningless to me |
| 19:50.50 | franz` | then again I lugged an N800 around |
| 19:51.12 | virtuald | i really want a keyboard :p |
| 21:38.53 | virtuald | http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s320x320/407894_2774740295095_1455703766_2709853_52234204_n.jpg |
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