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| 05:19.56 | ghjgfjghjbn | okay im gonna buy a white n9, is there a general consensus on made in finland or made in china? |
| 05:20.10 | psycho_oreos | and no it depends on where you purchase it. Supposedly if you purchased it in the EU region, it'll be labelled as made in Finland. Whereas if you purchased it within asia/oceania region it'll be labelled as made in china |
| 05:20.57 | ghjgfjghjbn | if I have a choice, should I pick one over the other? |
| 05:21.01 | psycho_oreos | I don't have made in finland version and I'm skeptic that it would actually be manufactured in Finland.. maybe couple of 100s would be produced in Finland due to labour costs |
| 05:21.07 | ghjgfjghjbn | Im buying on in USA, so it will be imported |
| 05:21.37 | psycho_oreos | yeah it depends on where the importer would choose, most likely from SE Asia, which will inherently have made in china print |
| 05:22.19 | ghjgfjghjbn | on tmo, I'm seeing a posts on Finland>China |
| 05:23.28 | ghjgfjghjbn | any android users in here? looking for opinions |
| 05:23.44 | ghjgfjghjbn | I had N900, then android, now N9 tomorrow |
| 05:23.46 | psycho_oreos | again I don't have made in Finland n9 (and I really don't see the reason why I should have more than one pathetic n9) so I can't tell. Lots of people would say buy the Finland version but how would they know the difference between the two? If lets say all of new nokia phones are produced in China and some of them were deliberately mislabelled as made in Finland, who's going to know? |
| 05:24.15 | ghjgfjghjbn | ok i see |
| 05:24.45 | psycho_oreos | if nokia was serious about supporting Finland, they would have had all their phones made there |
| 05:25.21 | psycho_oreos | but no, they're too serious about cutting the costs where possible like every other companies who would rather seek cheaper costs for labour elsewhere |
| 05:26.17 | ghjgfjghjbn | any other absolutely stunning phones in the physical sense? The white N9 made me wanna buy |
| 05:26.34 | psycho_oreos | pre-production N900 (e.g. summit versions) were made in Finland.. the actual N900 is labelled as made in Korea. Would that tell you how serious is nokia keeping it being a purely Finnish based company? |
| 05:27.16 | ghjgfjghjbn | All the android phones look so ehh, maybe except the Sony MWC announcements |
| 05:28.29 | itsnotabigtruck | psycho_oreos: they do in fact have an assembly plant in finland |
| 05:28.31 | itsnotabigtruck | well, did |
| 05:28.32 | psycho_oreos | I'm personally a fan of phones with a flip out keyboard and that runs linux (preferrably not android).. I have forgiven my decision to purchase a n9 multiple times even though my N900 is sitting there gathering dust and laughing at me whenever I fire her up |
| 05:28.33 | itsnotabigtruck | they're shutting it down |
| 05:28.50 | itsnotabigtruck | of course the innards of the phone are all going to be made in taiwan/china/wherever |
| 05:29.05 | psycho_oreos | itsnotabigtruck, do you know how many batches do they make compared to the China based assembly plant? |
| 05:29.10 | itsnotabigtruck | no clue |
| 05:29.13 | itsnotabigtruck | more than hundreds |
| 05:29.30 | psycho_oreos | I'm sure far less than China based due to the costs of labour |
| 05:29.32 | itsnotabigtruck | from what i've heard more or less all N9s destined for the eu are made in finland |
| 05:29.40 | itsnotabigtruck | the rest are made in china |
| 05:29.54 | itsnotabigtruck | though actually, apparently in argentina there's N9s made there too |
| 05:30.21 | itsnotabigtruck | but that isn't for the entire central/south america region, my lta n9 is made in chian |
| 05:30.51 | psycho_oreos | mine's made in China and I live within oceania region |
| 05:31.36 | psycho_oreos | its not only the costs of labour but also delivery costs.. obviously they would choose one big plant in China for all these SE Asia + Oceania region |
| 05:32.24 | psycho_oreos | I'm sure the manufacturing plants would be mostly based in China too, so even if they were assembled in Finland, at the end of the day, its still predominantly Chinese based components |
| 05:33.41 | psycho_oreos | makes me want to laugh at those thinking if you purchase the one that's labelled made in Finland, you're supporting Finnish people.. that's a completely deluded notion of thought |
| 05:35.38 | psycho_oreos | and to think that all made in Finland vs made in China ones would be appropriately named would be far too great of a topic to even cover. Nobody can honestly tell you the differences between either, not unless you're working inside nokia and have access to these confidential papers |
| 05:36.41 | psycho_oreos | almost every damn company in this entire continent thrives at the idea of cheap labour, yet to please their fans they could easily just label a few devices as made in <insert some first world country here> instead of made in China |
| 05:38.32 | ghjgfjghjbn | hmm is there traffic support in N9 navigation |
| 05:38.33 | ghjgfjghjbn | ? |
| 05:38.53 | itsnotabigtruck | psycho_oreos: well, the two are obviously /supposed to be/ the same |
| 05:39.11 | itsnotabigtruck | the claim/expectation/whatever is that made in finland units might be put together more precisely |
| 05:39.25 | psycho_oreos | itsnotabigtruck, hint: claim |
| 05:39.26 | itsnotabigtruck | though ironically the first few batches of made in finland units had a problem with the buttons or something |
| 05:40.08 | itsnotabigtruck | psycho_oreos: well, it's not an entirely unfounded idea, though in practice yeah, it doesn't seem to bear out |
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| 05:40.27 | psycho_oreos | there's no factual evidence that one could tell from a crappily built n9 vs a well assembled n9 from either China or Finland, the case could be completely opposite |
| 05:41.29 | itsnotabigtruck | well, supposedly they use a significant amount of industrial automation in the finland plant, and one of the main reasons for building in china is that cheap labor is less expensive than complicated automation |
| 05:41.50 | itsnotabigtruck | that said, another main reason is to be close to the component manufacturers and has nothing to do with labor |
| 05:42.00 | itsnotabigtruck | this whole discussion was had a week or two ago on #harmattan :p |
| 05:42.49 | psycho_oreos | interesting that I missed out, I'm sure nobody has actually seen the Chinese based plant vs Finland based plant, taken photographs and have shown concise research into the difference between the two have they? |
| 05:43.10 | itsnotabigtruck | well, all that info is sekrit i'm sure |
| 05:43.43 | psycho_oreos | I mean there's this n9 youtube video of how its made, one could simply argue the entire movie was based on nokia factory in Finland though how the hell is one supposed to know? what handmade with love? there's not much love in it when the components are most likely made in China anyway |
| 05:44.10 | psycho_oreos | I'm sure nokia would have factored in the cheapness of having a separate plant in China for SE Asia |
| 05:45.30 | psycho_oreos | if lets say there's no nokia assembly plant in China, who's going to pay for the absurdly priced n9 which is wholly assembled in Finland? any takers? |
| 05:45.57 | psycho_oreos | lets not forget that if it was to be shipped to oceania, wouldn't that be almost double the cost for freight? |
| 05:50.16 | psycho_oreos | let's twist this automation plant theory for a bit, who's going to know if there's no automation plant in China because electricity might even costs far cheaper there than in Finland because China doesn't really care about polluting its own atmosphere whereas the Finland being in the EU region cares about the environment.. who's got factual evidence? |
| 05:52.19 | psycho_oreos | then there's that automated machinery work, LCD monitors are well known for `dead pixels' yet this issue is what almost every vendor would try and shrug off as being not to much of a big deal. Whos going to know if lets say a handful of n9 assembled by machines in Finland had a slight issue? |
| 06:22.18 | itsnotabigtruck | psycho_oreos: since you're on...what do you think about this |
| 06:22.20 | itsnotabigtruck | https://crypty.ch/p/Rhu8RyYa#e71972e27dc3af7cddc39491bf719d10 |
| 06:24.37 | psycho_oreos | itsnotabigtruck, looks interesting though it would be nice if it works lol.. probably not for my pr1.0 setup |
| 06:27.12 | itsnotabigtruck | psycho_oreos: any reason you haven't upgrded? |
| 06:28.13 | psycho_oreos | itsnotabigtruck, I want to backup all the deb packages first, and in case if I'm not happy with a latter version of a program, I want to be able to revert it. Plus most of my debs that I want to backup are from ovi suite |
| 06:28.16 | itsnotabigtruck | this technique would work on pr1.0 but i'd rather not backport, also i expected inception to work on pr1.0 but apparently it doesn't (in fact, didn't you inform me of that?) |
| 06:28.22 | psycho_oreos | they can't be obtained through regular means just yet |
| 06:28.38 | itsnotabigtruck | ovi store you mean, or something else? |
| 06:29.07 | itsnotabigtruck | i'm not sure if anybody's built a good repacker, you really need to just scope out where to get the debs from |
| 06:29.34 | psycho_oreos | yes it doesn't work with pr1.0. What I did was I installed inception as per your website method, uninstalled and reinstalled gnu-tar but when I ran dpkg-repack zlib1g (as a pure test case scenario) it still gives me permission denied |
| 06:30.03 | psycho_oreos | oh yeah I reinstalled gnu-tar via inception of course |
| 06:30.15 | psycho_oreos | ovi store yeah |
| 06:30.23 | itsnotabigtruck | wait, do inception did work? |
| 06:30.28 | itsnotabigtruck | *wait, so |
| 06:30.33 | itsnotabigtruck | if it didn't, what was the error again |
| 06:30.48 | itsnotabigtruck | wonder if there's anything i can do to fix it quickly |
| 06:30.51 | psycho_oreos | it did install successfully, but I cannot issue tar -cf through dpkg-repack |
| 06:31.18 | psycho_oreos | it seems like gnu-tar didn't have any permissions for executing |
| 06:31.34 | itsnotabigtruck | psycho_oreos: did it fail with operation not permitted, or some other error |
| 06:31.42 | itsnotabigtruck | i think the problem is that you installed a package conflicting with another |
| 06:31.49 | psycho_oreos | itsnotabigtruck, operation not permitted, specifically with tar -cf |
| 06:31.49 | itsnotabigtruck | the refhashlist entry didn't get updated |
| 06:31.56 | psycho_oreos | hmm |
| 06:32.15 | psycho_oreos | not sure on refhashlist entry, but I have since then rebooted my n9 a fair few times |
| 06:32.31 | itsnotabigtruck | that won't help if the refhashlist didn't get updated |
| 06:32.34 | itsnotabigtruck | rebooting loads that from disk |
| 06:32.55 | itsnotabigtruck | hmm... |
| 06:33.02 | itsnotabigtruck | do dpkg -e foo.deb control |
| 06:33.13 | itsnotabigtruck | where foo.deb contains gnu tar |
| 06:33.17 | itsnotabigtruck | cat control/digsigsums |
| 06:33.31 | itsnotabigtruck | take the sha-1 hash for /usr/bin/tar or whatever in that output |
| 06:33.42 | itsnotabigtruck | now vim /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist |
| 06:33.50 | itsnotabigtruck | find tar and change the hash |
| 06:34.09 | itsnotabigtruck | then: accli -c tcb-sign -F /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist < /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist |
| 06:34.18 | itsnotabigtruck | do the refhashlist stuff from opensh |
| 06:34.29 | itsnotabigtruck | what that'll do is change the hash list and revalidate it |
| 06:34.31 | itsnotabigtruck | then reboot |
| 06:34.54 | itsnotabigtruck | there mustn't be an interruption between the refhashlist edit and the accli command or you'll hose your installation |
| 06:35.01 | itsnotabigtruck | so maybe back that up in case something goes wrong |
| 06:35.38 | itsnotabigtruck | psycho_oreos: copy? |
| 06:36.45 | psycho_oreos | I'm partway into doing what you're suggesting now |
| 06:42.48 | psycho_oreos | itsnotabigtruck, ping |
| 06:45.33 | itsnotabigtruck | psycho_oreos: yeah? |
| 06:46.15 | psycho_oreos | accli.cpp(1437): ERROR: cannot sign '/var/lib/aegis/refhashlist' (Permission denied) |
| 06:46.27 | psycho_oreos | tried it as both developer and as root (via devel-su) |
| 06:50.50 | itsnotabigtruck | psycho_oreos: do the refhashlist stuff from opensh |
| 06:50.57 | itsnotabigtruck | when you're doing hacky stuff every detail is important |
| 06:51.17 | itsnotabigtruck | no matter what you do don't reboot your phone with an unsigned refhashlist! |
| 06:51.25 | itsnotabigtruck | or try to install anything, that's also bad |
| 06:51.46 | psycho_oreos | itsnotabigtruck, you meant openssh? I am doing that! |
| 06:53.07 | itsnotabigtruck | psycho_oreos: no, opensh |
| 06:53.17 | itsnotabigtruck | read the 2nd last section on the inception website |
| 06:53.26 | itsnotabigtruck | since it's safe to say you don't have it installed yet, IMMEDIATELY STOP |
| 06:53.33 | itsnotabigtruck | roll back your refhashlist to the backup |
| 06:53.41 | itsnotabigtruck | if you didn't make a backup, figure out what the hash for tar was and put it back in |
| 06:54.00 | itsnotabigtruck | do: accli -c tcb-verify -F /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist | less |
| 06:54.06 | itsnotabigtruck | if it spits out your refhashlist, it's signed, you're safe |
| 06:54.32 | psycho_oreos | hmm crap |
| 06:55.21 | itsnotabigtruck | i was worried i was going to get you into this...though i also assumed you'd double-check before doing this :/ |
| 06:56.16 | psycho_oreos | I think I might have a way around it |
| 06:57.16 | itsnotabigtruck | psycho_oreos: and what is that |
| 06:57.29 | itsnotabigtruck | don't try anything without running it by here until you have your refhashlist verifiable |
| 06:57.54 | itsnotabigtruck | since you're so sensitive to wiping your phone, i don't want you to irrecoverably MALF your phone (until you flash) |
| 06:58.15 | itsnotabigtruck | which is exactly what you'll do if you don't get that file resigned (it's security-sensitive) |
| 06:59.25 | psycho_oreos | itsnotabigtruck, the original signature should be part of busybox.. lemme check if sha-1 sums are the same.. if so I can probably duplicate the line across and change the path to /bin/tar instead |
| 07:00.15 | itsnotabigtruck | psycho_oreos: ah, ok |
| 07:00.32 | itsnotabigtruck | remember that the file is SHA-1 hashed so it has to match byte for byte |
| 07:00.35 | itsnotabigtruck | so don't rearrange the lines |
| 07:01.31 | itsnotabigtruck | psycho_oreos: hold on, there doesn't seem to be an entry for tar in the first place |
| 07:01.35 | itsnotabigtruck | on a normal installation |
| 07:02.11 | psycho_oreos | itsnotabigtruck, that would be a bonus, thanks for informing me.. I know /bin/tar is symlinked to busybox |
| 07:03.17 | itsnotabigtruck | psycho_oreos: see pm |
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| 17:47.33 | opdf2 | hmmm i just bought an n9 "new" from store in USA |
| 17:47.40 | opdf2 | PR 1.2 was already installed |
| 17:47.42 | opdf2 | is this possible |
| 17:47.58 | jonne | i don't see why not |
| 17:48.12 | opdf2 | is there a way to see if the phone has been used before? |
| 17:48.39 | jonne | did it come with a bunch of stickers on everything? |
| 17:48.44 | jonne | is there data on it? |
| 17:48.53 | opdf2 | stickers yes |
| 17:49.00 | opdf2 | contacts calendar data no |
| 17:49.30 | opdf2 | what other data should I look for? |
| 17:49.36 | jonne | if there's no scratches and no data, why does it matter whether it's new new or refurb? |
| 17:50.04 | opdf2 | hmm okay |
| 17:50.15 | jonne | it works, right? |
| 17:50.19 | opdf2 | there was no tutorial when I turned on the phone either |
| 17:50.25 | opdf2 | yes |
| 17:50.33 | jonne | that should be there |
| 17:50.42 | jonne | at least mine has one |
| 17:51.15 | opdf2 | I think that PR 1.2 is too new to be preinstalled |
| 17:51.37 | opdf2 | maybe I should just forget about it, it is physically flawless |
| 17:52.11 | jonne | maybe P.R. releases go out to new devices before they push them to their repositories |
| 17:53.47 | xTs | the question is: Was the box sealed and everything? |
| 17:54.22 | xTs | nokia puts a nice sticker on the box. |
| 17:54.31 | opdf2 | yeah |
| 17:54.31 | Jaya_the_Cat | does PR 1.2 = MeeGo 1.2? |
| 17:55.36 | xTs | then maybe nokia flashes their devices then before they sell them |
| 17:55.42 | itsnotabigtruck | jonne: it can't possibly be before 2012 week 7 day 1 |
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| 17:55.54 | itsnotabigtruck | because the build date goes into the version number |
| 17:56.05 | itsnotabigtruck | Jaya_the_Cat: nope |
| 17:56.13 | virtuald | no, pr1.1 was meego 1.2 too |
| 17:56.26 | jonne | so, yes :p |
| 17:56.31 | itsnotabigtruck | the n9 doesn't run meego at all, but it's branded as "meego 1.2 harmattan" for all the versions |
| 17:56.34 | itsnotabigtruck | very confusing |
| 17:58.39 | opdf2 | well this is weird then |
| 17:59.04 | opdf2 | what should I check on the phone to make sure everything is okay? |
| 17:59.18 | opdf2 | the outside looks good |
| 18:09.03 | Jaya_the_Cat | itsnotabigtruck, thanks |
| 18:09.08 | Jaya_the_Cat | what, no meego? o.O |
| 18:09.17 | Jaya_the_Cat | I 'll read it up later on :| |
| 18:09.22 | Jaya_the_Cat | thanks for the info |
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| 18:39.09 | itsnotabigtruck | Jaya_the_Cat: well, it has some meego components inside |
| 18:39.21 | itsnotabigtruck | but it's basically maemo 6 |
| 18:39.47 | itsnotabigtruck | given that it's the direct successor to maemo 5 |
| 18:46.01 | opdf2 | how charged is the battery on new n9? |
| 18:46.06 | opdf2 | mine was at 86% |
| 18:47.20 | itsnotabigtruck | opdf2: no idea, first thing i did was let it charge |
| 18:47.23 | itsnotabigtruck | it took quite a while |
| 18:47.28 | itsnotabigtruck | was the box sealed or not? |
| 18:47.32 | opdf2 | it was |
| 18:47.41 | itsnotabigtruck | if it came in a sealed box, it's new |
| 18:47.47 | opdf2 | ocd |
| 18:47.49 | itsnotabigtruck | (with the proper nokia sticker) |
| 18:48.04 | itsnotabigtruck | (not shrinkwrapped or with a generic sticker) |
| 18:48.33 | opdf2 | yes |
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| 19:35.09 | opdf2 | toobad caldav wont push |
| 19:35.15 | opdf2 | or gooole wont |
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| 19:50.15 | opdf2 | hmm paste forgotten? |
| 19:50.48 | itsnotabigtruck | opdf2: hm? |
| 19:51.40 | opdf2 | i have copied something on the clipboard, paste it into caldav, it syncs, then forgets |
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