| 00:00.02 | Crnkoj | ye but its a resource hog |
| 00:00.18 | Crnkoj | i like the "pure" linux experience on phone more than thsi vm crap |
| 00:00.21 | Crnkoj | esp with java |
| 00:00.22 | Crnkoj | =/ |
| 00:00.22 | psycho_oreos | I've heard that N950 has 16GB, but neither does N9 nor N950 has SD slot.. and N950 is a developers only device |
| 00:00.30 | Crnkoj | ye i know |
| 00:00.40 | Crnkoj | 16gb really? all info says its 8gb |
| 00:00.55 | Crnkoj | i could get the n950 from india from a friend |
| 00:00.57 | psycho_oreos | I've asked a few developers who happens to own one |
| 00:01.01 | Crnkoj | ah i see |
| 00:01.06 | Crnkoj | thats better than but still |
| 00:01.11 | Crnkoj | why no sd slot is above me |
| 00:01.25 | psycho_oreos | its Flop's way of crippling the device |
| 00:01.29 | Crnkoj | and now these windows phones from nokia |
| 00:01.53 | Crnkoj | the only positive thing they ahve compared to other manufacturers is the navigation lol |
| 00:01.58 | Crnkoj | and maybe the looks |
| 00:02.01 | psycho_oreos | for now I'm rather pleased with my N900 :) got a few now |
| 00:02.12 | Crnkoj | uhm ye |
| 00:02.20 | Crnkoj | my bro wants to buy a used noe from ebay |
| 00:02.22 | Crnkoj | one |
| 00:02.35 | psycho_oreos | well the navigation `app' has been hacked and some people have skydrive (I think is what it was called) running on other wp7/mango devices |
| 00:02.38 | Crnkoj | one can put harmattan on it right ? |
| 00:02.56 | psycho_oreos | no not the same meego harmattan that N950/N9 features |
| 00:02.56 | Crnkoj | ye but you have to fuck around with that windows junk |
| 00:03.01 | Crnkoj | ah ok |
| 00:03.11 | Crnkoj | but some rather recent version of meego/mer ? |
| 00:03.30 | psycho_oreos | but he can put meegoCE which is a proper meego environment not the meego harmattan which is kinda like a hybrid of maemo and meego with aegis crap |
| 00:03.38 | Crnkoj | aha |
| 00:03.38 | psycho_oreos | true |
| 00:03.46 | Crnkoj | ye id put that on it than |
| 00:03.55 | Crnkoj | but the phone only has 256mb ram |
| 00:03.59 | psycho_oreos | well yeah meego is joining with mer |
| 00:04.00 | Crnkoj | kinda cripples it |
| 00:04.06 | Crnkoj | ye so i read |
| 00:04.13 | Crnkoj | btw what are you running on your n900s ? |
| 00:04.17 | psycho_oreos | 256MB RAM + 768MB swap, it'll be slow but its still doable :) |
| 00:04.26 | Crnkoj | yes slow all in all |
| 00:04.40 | Crnkoj | in wondering as to where to go to get info about getting meego/mer on this atrix phone |
| 00:04.44 | psycho_oreos | pure maemo for now.. have been mulling over triple booting meego and nitdroid but I want to retain it all using uboot |
| 00:04.52 | Crnkoj | aha |
| 00:05.01 | Crnkoj | ah maemo only |
| 00:05.11 | psycho_oreos | well meego has their own support channel in #meego, and specifically for ARM platform #meego-arm |
| 00:05.19 | Crnkoj | ye im there |
| 00:05.21 | Crnkoj | was there |
| 00:05.28 | Crnkoj | they suggested i ask in harmattan/mer |
| 00:05.35 | psycho_oreos | ew |
| 00:05.37 | Crnkoj | about getting it |
| 00:05.42 | Crnkoj | but no real responses there ^ ^ |
| 00:05.47 | Crnkoj | probably not worth anyways |
| 00:05.51 | Crnkoj | havent got much time lately |
| 00:05.56 | Crnkoj | sick studies :D |
| 00:06.04 | psycho_oreos | I don't think harmattan is that portable, not to mention if its something that you would want |
| 00:06.14 | psycho_oreos | heh |
| 00:06.43 | Crnkoj | i mean id like a meego like os on the phone |
| 00:06.43 | Crnkoj | i love the interface on the n9 |
| 00:06.43 | Crnkoj | all with gestures |
| 00:06.43 | Crnkoj | and the multitasking |
| 00:06.43 | Crnkoj | fantastic |
| 00:06.44 | Crnkoj | i mean consider that on a dualcore cpu |
| 00:06.49 | Crnkoj | with faster ram |
| 00:06.51 | Crnkoj | and better gpu |
| 00:06.53 | psycho_oreos | the swype is proprietary and is integral part of harmattan |
| 00:06.59 | Crnkoj | ah |
| 00:07.05 | Crnkoj | so one would have to get harmattan to work |
| 00:07.07 | Crnkoj | not jsut meego |
| 00:07.08 | Crnkoj | =/ |
| 00:07.18 | psycho_oreos | well yeah |
| 00:07.21 | Crnkoj | i lost all interest in it now lol |
| 00:07.26 | Crnkoj | would need a new kernel |
| 00:07.27 | Crnkoj | for sure |
| 00:07.27 | psycho_oreos | meego itself is more open however than harmattan |
| 00:07.32 | Crnkoj | ye im sure of that |
| 00:07.55 | psycho_oreos | well for starters you'll need to boot into meego's own kernel but surely you might be able to get away with chroot |
| 00:08.09 | Crnkoj | beh chroot |
| 00:08.16 | Crnkoj | i can chroot in whichever linux i want to lol |
| 00:08.38 | psycho_oreos | well chroot into meego CE and see if you like it :) |
| 00:08.55 | Crnkoj | ah |
| 00:08.57 | psycho_oreos | that's the free alternative once you have ported it onto android.. surely someone has done it before though |
| 00:09.06 | Crnkoj | not for thsi device |
| 00:09.07 | Crnkoj | im sure |
| 00:09.57 | psycho_oreos | nah not specifically but chroot doesn't really care what android handset you're on let alone any device.. it just requires your device to run its contents |
| 00:10.15 | Crnkoj | ye i know |
| 00:10.27 | Crnkoj | but than its just sucky lol |
| 00:10.27 | Crnkoj | slow |
| 00:10.27 | Crnkoj | not fine |
| 00:10.31 | Crnkoj | evreything what i dont want |
| 00:10.32 | Crnkoj | lol |
| 00:11.39 | psycho_oreos | well.. you probably could install meego on your device in somewhat a dualboot/multiboot fashion, but I don't know about the locked bootloader on it.. and also you might not have complete functionality even with meego kernel running on your device |
| 00:12.04 | psycho_oreos | for instance you would lose functionality to telephony, wlan, gprs, bluetooth, etc |
| 00:12.12 | Crnkoj | yep |
| 00:12.18 | Crnkoj | i would have to fuck around with all of that |
| 00:12.25 | Crnkoj | esp telephony woudl be a pita probably |
| 00:12.29 | Crnkoj | wlan maybe less |
| 00:12.35 | Crnkoj | dont care about bluetooth :P |
| 00:12.42 | psycho_oreos | though the bottom line is you'd still get meego running on it :) which would somewhat be a start :) |
| 00:12.45 | Crnkoj | and ye cant do dualboot with this bootloader |
| 00:12.54 | Crnkoj | since its unlocked so you can flash whatever kernel system and so on |
| 00:12.58 | Crnkoj | but you cant reflash teh bootloader |
| 00:13.04 | Crnkoj | heh ya |
| 00:13.09 | psycho_oreos | heh that's what I thought, locked bootloader |
| 00:13.26 | Crnkoj | ye well |
| 00:13.29 | psycho_oreos | only for nexus and nexus S I've heard that comes with unlocked bootloader |
| 00:13.29 | Crnkoj | its unlocked but signed |
| 00:13.38 | Crnkoj | thats two things |
| 00:13.40 | psycho_oreos | bah |
| 00:13.47 | Crnkoj | i mean it comes locked and signed |
| 00:13.54 | Crnkoj | but an unlocked one got leaked |
| 00:14.02 | Crnkoj | but from motorola in fact lol |
| 00:14.03 | Crnkoj | so funny |
| 00:14.32 | Crnkoj | and the secure boot key isnt available |
| 00:14.36 | Crnkoj | for the phone (obviously) |
| 00:14.43 | Crnkoj | so one cant flash his own bootloaders |
| 00:14.43 | psycho_oreos | I remember there was a comment about signed kernels from motorola, I can't remember where but someone made a comment about how anally retentive motorola is with signed ones |
| 00:14.53 | Crnkoj | oh ye it is |
| 00:15.00 | Crnkoj | everything has to be signed |
| 00:15.02 | Crnkoj | all partitions |
| 00:15.07 | Crnkoj | if oyu dont have this kernel |
| 00:15.12 | Crnkoj | erm this bootloader sorry |
| 00:15.27 | psycho_oreos | heh |
| 00:15.37 | Crnkoj | k man thanks for the info |
| 00:15.42 | Crnkoj | its getting late |
| 00:15.42 | psycho_oreos | well I guess security is somewhat a paramount |
| 00:15.44 | Crnkoj | and ill go to sleep |
| 00:15.44 | psycho_oreos | nw |
| 00:15.50 | psycho_oreos | alright nite nite |
| 00:15.53 | Crnkoj | ye |
| 00:15.58 | Crnkoj | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:16.06 | psycho_oreos | aegis is worse imo :) |
| 00:16.15 | Crnkoj | honestly, probably motorola devices are the best for government people |
| 00:16.27 | psycho_oreos | nah, they'd probably run RIM |
| 00:16.30 | Crnkoj | since it really is locked down |
| 00:16.38 | psycho_oreos | err blackberry |
| 00:16.43 | Crnkoj | it even offers you encryption of the data |
| 00:16.44 | Crnkoj | of all data |
| 00:16.55 | Crnkoj | like of all the files you ahve on your sdcards |
| 00:17.23 | Crnkoj | which is in my opinion a nifty feature |
| 00:17.30 | Crnkoj | semi useless for me right now |
| 00:17.32 | Crnkoj | hah |
| 00:17.32 | Crnkoj | k |
| 00:17.33 | Crnkoj | gn man |
| 00:17.39 | psycho_oreos | heh |
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| 15:47.45 | mojo_risin | hi, is bash shell available on N9? |
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| 16:00.41 | corecode | hi |
| 16:01.04 | corecode | is there an openconnect vpn plugin for harmattan? |
| 16:15.42 | DocScrutinizer | mojo_risin: kinda, but the problem is it maybe isn't starting |
| 16:16.01 | DocScrutinizer | "missing permissions" |
| 16:17.08 | mojo_risin | DocScrutinizer, i was able to install it and start it |
| 16:23.09 | DocScrutinizer | good, so obviously Nokia fixed that glitch |
| 16:24.05 | DocScrutinizer | my first MALF was when I and javispedro tried to make bash start ;-P |
| 16:24.50 | DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Aegis-kills-device.jpg |
| 16:28.00 | mojo_risin | :) |
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| 18:27.40 | mojo_risin | DocScrutinizer, have you tried mounting nfs volume with N9? |
| 18:27.54 | DocScrutinizer | no |
| 18:28.32 | mojo_risin | i'm mounting as root, but i'm having a 'nfs bindresvport: Permission denied' |
| 18:28.49 | mojo_risin | which should only happen as non root, from what I read |
| 18:29.32 | mojo_risin | from the server side all seems ok |
| 18:30.06 | mojo_risin | mountd[11730]: authenticated mount request from 192.168.1.72:51044 for /mnt/sdb6 (/mnt/sdb6) |
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| 19:09.50 | mojo_risin | DocScrutinizer, it seems some security capabilities are blocked by default |
| 19:10.10 | mojo_risin | like CAP::sys_admin |
| 19:10.24 | mojo_risin | which probably means one cannot mount |
| 19:58.25 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 19:58.56 | DocScrutinizer | I hate to say it: known problem, WONTFIX |
| 20:05.04 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.meego.com/User:Javispedro/Activities_blocked_by_the_N9_and_N950_security_policy |
| 20:06.15 | DocScrutinizer | Forbidden stuff -> Can't mount. |
| 20:17.04 | DocScrutinizer | you may want to hope for a proper open-mode kernel offering to run a full HARMattan system with aegis neutered |
| 20:18.23 | DocScrutinizer | recent rant at the coffeemachine has it it *should* be possible, and only thing you have to accept is the "Warranty void if you continue" warning while flashing that open mode kernel |
| 20:20.48 | DocScrutinizer | It's still unclear how exactly that kernel has to be patched to work that way, and if Nokia PLATformSECurity will tolerate all that or rather will kill the whole effort down with next update of aegis policies and core components |
| 20:22.27 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia associates/employees NOT related to PLATSEC say it should fly, and PLATSEC should be content with it |
| 20:23.09 | DocScrutinizer | but of course that's a personal notion not backed up by any official statement of Nokia |
| 20:24.27 | DocScrutinizer | those employees however mentioned they "might ask if such an official statement of Nokia, or rather a 20 line wiki howto regarding open mode could be posted by Nokia" |
| 20:25.55 | DocScrutinizer | I'm very anxious wondering if anything like this will happen |
| 20:57.03 | messerting | DocScrutinizer: Are you saying that, currently, it is not possible to flash the N9 with a community build of Harmattan? |
| 20:58.16 | DocScrutinizer | actually no, a lot of it is closed source |
| 20:58.22 | DocScrutinizer | afaik |
| 20:59.13 | DocScrutinizer | and even if it wasn't, you can't install anything and have it signed by nokia's cert key, so it would run under aegis |
| 21:01.46 | DocScrutinizer | look at develsh, it's basically a c 3-liner just calling /bin/sh. The whole point in develsh is it has a aegis manifest in the .deb that is requesting additional so called tokens (aktually permissions) and that manifest or rather the whole .deb is signed by a Nokia cert that makes those requests succeed. If you build the same package and install it, it won't work |
| 21:03.41 | DocScrutinizer | which is the whole point and also the fear and loathing coming from this aegis stuff |
| 21:04.42 | messerting | DocScrutinizer: But a total reflash of the entire N9, of Meego then? |
| 21:05.01 | DocScrutinizer | of course is feasible |
| 21:05.21 | DocScrutinizer | if you mean meego proper aka meego-CE |
| 21:05.43 | messerting | yes. Anyone done that? Any vids on youtube? |
| 21:05.53 | DocScrutinizer | I think yes |
| 21:06.16 | messerting | I am also surprise by this aegis stuff |
| 21:06.16 | DocScrutinizer | stskeeps aka Carsten Munk is working on that afaik |
| 21:06.55 | messerting | A bit strange with a so "strict" security, and still, the user don't know what parts of the device any app can access |
| 21:07.13 | DocScrutinizer | though meanwhile the whole thing seen another renaming: mer and nemo is it now |
| 21:07.47 | DocScrutinizer | I love to do this several times a day: |
| 21:07.50 | DocScrutinizer | ~aegis |
| 21:07.50 | infobot | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
| 21:08.51 | messerting | Yes, I love that Trused Computing video. Very good. |
| 21:13.33 | messerting | My N900 is superior to the N9 in so many ways. Yet, the N9 is so slim and nice... |
| 21:17.21 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 21:17.33 | DocScrutinizer | feels alike |
| 22:12.24 | mojo_risin | DocScrutinizer, thanks for your explanation, very interesting |
| 22:12.46 | mojo_risin | one thing that made me buy the N9 was the promise of an open platform |
| 22:13.15 | mojo_risin | i see that i wasn't so well informed after all |
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| 23:25.02 | DocScrutinizer | I think Nokia has to fulfil a promise here |
| 23:27.13 | DocScrutinizer | as actually you couldn't tell from any of the advertising and info about N9 that it's not exactly as open a platform as you'd expect - in fact nobody would think N9 is so fundamentally different than N900 regarding the OS and openness |
| 23:29.15 | DocScrutinizer | meego, when started, was meant to be even more open than maemo. No matter whether Nokia calls the N9 OS now meego or maemo, they more than once actively suggested it's *open* |
| 23:30.36 | DocScrutinizer | and "open" is not meant to be interpreted as "you may look at the source, to learn or build your own OS based on it" |
| 23:31.14 | DocScrutinizer | open means I have full access to each detail of the OS the device is shipping with |
