| 00:49.43 | javispedro | well, you're boned then |
| 00:49.50 | javispedro | the WM doesn't exactly use "Secure Connections" |
| 00:50.02 | javispedro | I do not think they are encrypted at all.. |
| 00:50.57 | javispedro | but they're actually only talking about pairing I guess... |
| 01:10.47 | thescreensavers | Not sure, but they linked something from the bluetooth api which should be all of android. Any how Ill just wait and see I guess |
| 03:08.46 | *** join/#metawatch DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 08:09.34 | DocScrutinizer | ~logs |
| 08:09.34 | infobot | All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/%23metawatch/ Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily. |
| 08:16.54 | DocScrutinizer | ( <GeneralAntilles> HTC claims SPP support too <GeneralAntilles> But they LIE) I guess there's a bit of a difference between exposing a virtual tty to BT and otoh connecting to that virtual tty |
| 08:17.34 | DocScrutinizer | I well believe HTC is exposing a virtual tty where you can interface the modem via AT commands |
| 08:18.00 | DocScrutinizer | connecting to another BT SSP tty is another game I guess |
| 08:18.18 | DocScrutinizer | s/SSP/SPP/ |
| 08:19.36 | DocScrutinizer | Radix-wrk: you want to inform chan users about "chanlogs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23metawatch/" in topic |
| 08:20.42 | DocScrutinizer | ~factinfo logs |
| 08:20.42 | infobot | logs -- last modified at Mon Feb 7 22:08:20 2011 by TimRiker!~TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker; it has been requested 444 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 11m 8s ago. |
| 08:20.57 | DocScrutinizer | ~literal logs |
| 08:20.57 | infobot | "logs" is "<reply>All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/$urlchannel/ Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily." |
| 08:51.03 | *** join/#metawatch ka010 (~ka010@e180081093.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 09:58.48 | *** join/#metawatch orlovsky (~tony@host109-153-127-124.range109-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:03.23 | *** join/#metawatch joehughes (~anonymous@78-86-3-30.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 13:06.15 | *** join/#metawatch javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 14:32.58 | joehughes | Anyone around? |
| 14:46.16 | javispedro | I am around |
| 14:46.36 | javispedro | and even doing stuff ;) http://depot.javispedro.com/metawatch/watchtoomany.jpg |
| 14:48.53 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, nice. |
| 14:49.04 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, how do you add application settings to the Settings application? |
| 14:49.25 | javispedro | You mean on #harmattan? I have no idea yet |
| 14:49.48 | javispedro | more interested in how you read pending notification counts now =) |
| 14:50.32 | GeneralAntilles | Surely there's a relevant dbus signal you can listen for? |
| 14:50.45 | javispedro | yeah, for new ones |
| 14:51.16 | javispedro | I can get the the unread mail count from the mail app itself, but, who clicks on the "Mark all mails as read"? It's better to get the one from the "events view" home screen |
| 14:52.38 | joehughes | javispedro, what are you driving that from? |
| 14:52.46 | javispedro | my Nokia n95 |
| 14:52.48 | javispedro | *n950 |
| 14:53.09 | dm8tbr | getting real time incoming call info on the n950 would be awesome |
| 14:53.39 | joehughes | Cool. I've been fooling around with my own connection code on Android, it's nice to be only limited by firmware problems instead of firmware + MWM problems. |
| 14:54.05 | javispedro | hehe |
| 14:54.09 | javispedro | waiting for the MWM code too |
| 14:54.23 | javispedro | since there's still a lot of protocol stuff that's not documented |
| 14:54.35 | javispedro | for ex. seems that BT clients can trigger the "Show seconds" mode |
| 14:54.40 | javispedro | I triggered it by accident at least... |
| 14:54.43 | joehughes | Has anyone managed to read any button configuration info (msg 0x48)? |
| 14:55.05 | ka010 | joehughes: been messing with that but no luck so far |
| 14:55.15 | joehughes | I'm not sure the "show seconds" thing is intentional, I seem to have triggered it by toggling the idle mode clock display on and off |
| 14:55.28 | javispedro | joehughes: exactly |
| 14:55.34 | ka010 | yeah me too |
| 14:55.45 | javispedro | joehughes: make it 26 zeros and you will stop toggling it |
| 14:55.54 | javispedro | therefore, one of the 26 bytes is "seconds mode" =) |
| 14:56.20 | javispedro | (When the watch expects a longer message it doesn't complain or reject it, it just reads garbage) |
| 14:56.30 | joehughes | ka010, yeah, I was just fooling around with your implementation of the button thing, and then I just got down to trying to send "\x48\x00" and varying numbers of zeros afterwards, but I haven't been able to get a peep out of the watch |
| 14:57.17 | joehughes | It's too bad, because without a way to pin app mode with no timeout, I think I'm gonna have to take over idle mode to get the results I want |
| 14:57.31 | joehughes | but it would be nice to get the firmware functions back without resetting the watch hardware |
| 15:00.14 | joehughes | I noticed that Marcel (moneytoo), the author of MWM, is on the boards now at least |
| 15:00.33 | javispedro | oh |
| 15:00.45 | javispedro | that's the guy from openwatch? |
| 15:01.02 | javispedro | so that's how they got the source for openwatch... |
| 15:01.04 | joehughes | Yes, MWM is based off the OpenWatch source code |
| 15:03.53 | joehughes | I just wish the boards weren't so broken, and that there was *some* way to read all new messages without constantly refreshing the latest messages view |
| 15:04.34 | javispedro | the boards are crappy indeed |
| 15:04.44 | javispedro | could they at least decide between www. and www-less URL ? ;P |
| 15:06.04 | joehughes | I think they're probably just way understaffed and spending most of their time on getting the watches built |
| 15:06.26 | javispedro | (cause when I click on a link and it takes me to www, I need to relogin. Same in the other direction.) |
| 15:08.39 | joehughes | Someone did make a Google Group a while back, but there hasn't been much activity on it: http://groups.google.com/group/metawatch-development |
| 15:08.45 | javispedro | I am thinking that probably the "12/24 hour mode bit" got moved to the configure idle screen message |
| 15:10.06 | javispedro | joehughes: btw, which font did you use in http://retrovirus.com/incr/2011/08/metawatch-experiments/ ? |
| 15:10.37 | javispedro | specially http://retrovirus.com/incr/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/wrist-tube-status.jpg |
| 15:10.54 | joehughes | javispedro: well, some of them are just taking the Android fonts and blasting them poorly into monochrome |
| 15:11.21 | javispedro | well, doesn't look bad... |
| 15:11.24 | joehughes | For that screenshot, the two apps there are just writing the Android system font to a canvas and turning it into bitmap bytes |
| 15:11.41 | joehughes | Looks OK at larger sizes, gets crappier as you get smaller |
| 15:11.50 | javispedro | which is basically what I'm doing with Qt, only with added damage tracking for speed |
| 15:12.16 | javispedro | I pulled in the MWM fonts, and they lack virtually any character other than [A-Z0-9] |
| 15:12.24 | javispedro | including the degree symbol, weirdly, as MWM seems to use it. |
| 15:12.44 | joehughes | The bitmap fonts they made look nice, but they're either super tiny or big and bold |
| 15:13.13 | joehughes | So even now that I have them, I still use Droid Sans in things like the Cicada menu list |
| 15:16.01 | joehughes | javispedro: what do you mean by "damage tracking"? |
| 15:16.26 | javispedro | joehughes: tracking the actual rows that are changed by the Qt rasterizer/painter |
| 15:16.36 | javispedro | so as not to upload the entire image every time |
| 15:17.42 | joehughes | Yeah, I implemented that this morning, it makes a nice difference. I just did pairs of adjacent rows so far. Have you tried updating two random rows in the same packet? |
| 15:17.51 | javispedro | yeah, works |
| 15:18.03 | javispedro | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gyIET0gWJ0 |
| 15:18.06 | javispedro | this was rendered using that |
| 15:18.36 | javispedro | sadly, it is about 2-3 frames per second |
| 15:18.42 | javispedro | considering ~50 rows per frame |
| 15:18.56 | javispedro | is more or less the theoretical max refresh speed I calculated on your blog =) |
| 15:19.29 | joehughes | I was just gonna say that wasn't too shabby :] I don't think it gets any better than that |
| 15:19.46 | javispedro | me neither |
| 15:19.50 | javispedro | either way, that kills battery fast |
| 15:19.55 | javispedro | so, not much of animations =) |
| 15:20.20 | joehughes | Actually, though, I was just thinking this morning about how quickly you could animate 3 frames using the 3 different on-device buffersâmay be good for a laugh at some point |
| 15:20.31 | javispedro | yeah |
| 15:20.38 | javispedro | I am thinking that they should do something like cached VNC |
| 15:20.53 | javispedro | and have several of those on-device buffers, and have a CopyRect command to copy a region between buffers |
| 15:21.16 | javispedro | therefore you could have on buffer with e.g. prerendered characters in your favourite font |
| 15:21.27 | javispedro | *a buffer |
| 15:21.54 | javispedro | OTOH, I think they mentioned the biggest problem is that they've nearly exhausted the MSP430 RAM... |
| 15:21.56 | joehughes | Fundamentally, they just don't have a lot of RAM to work with, so I'm not super optimistic about how much general functionality you could squeeze out of this generation |
| 15:22.25 | javispedro | btw |
| 15:22.27 | joehughes | Though for targeted applications, you could get some fun hacks |
| 15:22.29 | javispedro | what's the "Scroll" mode? |
| 15:23.29 | joehughes | Yeah, I was wondering about that myself. I know the MBW-150 could scroll messages on-device, so maybe it's something that works on the analog version? |
| 15:24.00 | javispedro | oh, so anadigi specific.. |
| 15:24.45 | joehughes | The ana-digi version looks nice (the screens are stealth when they're not on), but I'm not so excited about the limited pixels and the display not being on all the time |
| 15:25.29 | javispedro | being on all the time is exactly what made me reach my walllet for $200 instead of the $50 liveview =) |
| 15:25.31 | joehughes | Also, the hands can be spun programmatically, but only forward, and you can't read their position, so that gets rid of a lot of cute hacks |
| 15:25.59 | javispedro | with the _excellent_ under the sun visibility of the MW's screen, having the screen quite on is quite a plus |
| 15:26.18 | javispedro | s/screen quite on/screen always on/ ;) |
| 15:27.36 | javispedro | I used to have one a anadigi clock that also could spun hands on its own. there was some kinda calibration where you made them point to 12o'clock. |
| 15:28.29 | joehughes | The reflectivity is a real pain to photograph, though. :] I was trying to take more Minecraft photos yesterday, and between the reflective MW display, my glossy screen, the brightness difference, and getting the framing right, it was proper juggling |
| 15:29.12 | joehughes | I think I'll just need to paint my walls and ceiling black :] |
| 15:29.28 | javispedro | heh |
| 15:29.40 | javispedro | it helps that the n950 is totally black =) |
| 15:29.59 | javispedro | (but there's that red led...) |
| 15:31.01 | dm8tbr | black tape ftw |
| 15:31.03 | joehughes | I wonder if there's anything in the firmware code now for reading the light sensor or accelerometer. It doesn't seem to be in the protocol. |
| 15:33.22 | javispedro | the protocol does have an accelerometer msg |
| 15:33.25 | javispedro | didn't try yet |
| 15:33.30 | javispedro | can't find a good use case for the accel |
| 15:33.44 | javispedro | and, come to think of it, can't find good use for the light sensor either... |
| 15:33.51 | javispedro | inverting the screen doesn't do much good.. |
| 15:33.58 | javispedro | and you can't turn on the led via sw.. |
| 15:35.25 | joehughes | Ultimately, I think it will take some firmware hacking to do anything interesting with the accelerometer. I think the part can recognize entire gestures on its own, so it's possible that you could create another event for something like the jolt from tapping the face of the watch with your finger |
| 15:38.25 | javispedro | if I get access to firmware hacking, I'll think I'll make it draw a 60x60 analog watch face in the idle screen =) |
| 15:39.17 | joehughes | You can be like that guy that made 30 different clock faces for the inPulse watch |
| 15:40.38 | joehughes | I was always a little disappointed that people didn't do more interesting things with that one; but then again, it only has a single button for input, and a friend said it was hard to pair |
| 15:42.25 | javispedro | that, and screen that turns off |
| 15:42.44 | javispedro | but the inPulse shares a different approach, it's mostly about in-watch apps |
| 15:43.37 | joehughes | Well, is that necessarily the case, or is it just that it's not easy to pair with another device? |
| 15:44.00 | javispedro | tbh dunno, but the official SDK is just a crosscompiler |
| 15:44.03 | joehughes | Either way, it's not super practical as a watch |
| 15:44.13 | javispedro | if someone made an app that allows the watch to talk to the phone, nfi. |
| 15:44.35 | javispedro | the MSP430 would have been a better choice for that. |
| 15:44.59 | joehughes | I'm curious about the WIMM, since it has a passive display mode and more muscle power. Looks good for demoing, a little bulky for a watch |
| 15:47.10 | javispedro | there's also http://www.imwatch.it/ |
| 15:47.40 | javispedro | other than being more stylish it's not dissimilar to the inPulse |
| 15:48.17 | joehughes | I've never seen anything other than CG renders of that thing, which makes me suspicious |
| 15:48.34 | javispedro | it's tactile, which is a plus. they say it runs android, which I find hard to believe (and personally, I would find that a disadvantage ;) ). |
| 15:48.40 | javispedro | and battery life is around 3.5 hours of use =) |
| 15:48.54 | javispedro | oh, I could believe it |
| 15:49.02 | javispedro | they're not doing anything truly out of the world |
| 15:50.07 | javispedro | (except running android on a imx233) |
| 15:52.02 | javispedro | the battery on the metawatch is sadly not spectacular either, I am pretty much running it to the ground in 24h (but I'm doing heavy BT activity, e.g. many connect/disconnects, animations, etc) |
| 15:52.22 | joehughes | True, but the fact that the UI mocks all look like bastardized versions of iOS and that they claim it will pair with both iOS and Android make them less credible. I'm not aware of any BT hardware that is allowed to pair with both iOS and other things. |
| 15:52.48 | joehughes | (I mean, that does anything more than audio & music control profiles) |
| 15:53.07 | javispedro | joehughes: oh, of course they're allowed to pair with iOS |
| 15:53.17 | javispedro | it's called the extension device kit iirc and costs many $$$ |
| 15:53.43 | joehughes | I was just thinking of the WakeMate and how they had to sell two different SKUs for iOS vs. Android/BB |
| 15:55.44 | javispedro | you're right in that the UI is visually a clone of iOS, I wonder what they were thinking |
| 15:56.07 | javispedro | they want Apple to back to PowerPC all while suing ARM? =) |
| 15:56.39 | javispedro | hm, wait |
| 15:56.57 | javispedro | nothing to do with ARM =) |
| 15:57.13 | joehughes | So far, they have proven to me that they have hired some good visual designers to render mockups and make a website. They are promising an awful lot, but I haven't seen anything that convinces me that they have the skills to pull it off |
| 15:57.46 | javispedro | reminds me of those guys |
| 15:57.47 | javispedro | http://www.noteslate.com/ |
| 16:08.20 | joehughes | Doing hardware seems to always turn out to be harder than people expect. Heck, even the MetaWatch guys, with years of experience in the smart watch business, didn't hit their original ship dates. |
| 17:14.19 | joehughes | BTW, I just channeled my forum frustration into creating a blog that pulls together useful resources and fun hacks that have pictures or video: http://retrovirus.com/incr/2011/09/metawatch-hacks-resources/ |
| 17:14.51 | joehughes | ka010 and javispedro, let me know if you want to be credited differently or whatever |
| 17:16.48 | javispedro | nice |
| 17:43.05 | *** join/#metawatch thescreensavers (~Danny@c-98-254-209-122.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 18:01.16 | DocScrutinizer | joehughes: making hardware effort always gets severely underestimated - by software centric guys |
| 18:02.00 | DocScrutinizer | nobody of the sw camp seems aware what it means when I say "there are no patches for hardware" |
| 18:33.07 | dm8tbr | .oO(green wire *ouch* *ouch* *ouch*) |
| 19:42.12 | DocScrutinizer | ? |
| 20:21.12 | *** join/#metawatch javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 22:14.38 | GeneralAntilles | joehughes, ah, that Hacks article was what ended up selling me on the platform. |
| 22:16.00 | joehughes | GeneralAntilles: cool, hope you find some fun stuff to do with it |
| 22:19.47 | *** join/#metawatch Digital (63626286@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.98.98.134) |
| 22:20.42 | GeneralAntilles | Hopefully javispedro will have done all the heavy lifting by the time mine shows up next month. :/ |
| 22:21.02 | javispedro | you bastard |
| 22:21.11 | javispedro | well, at least it already sets up the date for you |
| 22:21.23 | javispedro | hope you know how to edit page-long .conf files MWAHAHAHA |
| 22:23.39 | GeneralAntilles | joehughes, fyi, s/QT Animation/Qt Animation/ |
| 22:23.43 | GeneralAntilles | It's Qt, not QuickTime. ;) |
| 22:24.10 | GeneralAntilles | Ooh, hadn't even considered hooking it into the home automation. |
| 22:25.09 | joehughes | thanks, fixed |
| 22:26.01 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, do you want to provide a quote for MWKN for the Qt Quick demo? |
| 22:27.33 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles: Something like "Now you have yet another form factor to recreate your QML interface for" ? ;) |
| 22:28.40 | GeneralAntilles | Hrm, the quote with the video is fairly workable. |
| 22:30.10 | joehughes | hah! |
| 22:30.28 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, yes, though, I think I'll add that. |
| 22:31.14 | GeneralAntilles | chuckles |
| 22:31.52 | javispedro | :) |
| 23:17.08 | javispedro | woohoo, it already displays unread notification counts =) |
| 23:19.34 | ka010 | cool man |
| 23:19.43 | ka010 | what are you driving your watch with? |
| 23:20.53 | javispedro | a nokia n950 + my own soft |
| 23:21.10 | ka010 | exotic ;) |
| 23:21.38 | ka010 | so did you rewrite the whole idle screen or how did you manage to put your info there ? |
| 23:23.09 | javispedro | rewriting |
| 23:23.51 | ka010 | cool, loved the animation btw |
| 23:28.48 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro wins for the week. |
| 23:28.53 | GeneralAntilles | Unless somebody does something cooler |
| 23:28.58 | GeneralAntilles | In which case they'll win instead. |
| 23:29.34 | ka010 | heh |
| 23:29.35 | javispedro | lol |
| 23:57.58 | *** join/#metawatch DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
