| 00:14.17 | CosmoHill | night night |
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| 01:25.05 | DonaldShimoda | ali1234, hi, one question |
| 01:25.17 | DonaldShimoda | how to download kernel headers? |
| 01:25.23 | DonaldShimoda | for the kernel you build |
| 01:25.29 | ali1234 | that's in the devel package |
| 01:25.42 | ali1234 | not the 100mb one |
| 01:25.45 | ali1234 | the other one |
| 01:25.55 | DonaldShimoda | ah... ok rigth |
| 01:26.00 | ali1234 | kernel-adaptation-pinetrail-devel-2.6.38.2-14.1.i586.rpm |
| 01:26.02 | ali1234 | that one |
| 01:26.20 | ali1234 | at least i assume it is |
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| 01:26.50 | DonaldShimoda | says need hardlink |
| 01:26.53 | DonaldShimoda | is a package? |
| 01:27.10 | DonaldShimoda | ok installing |
| 01:27.50 | ali1234 | dunno |
| 01:27.58 | ali1234 | maybe you need the link in /usr/lib/modules |
| 01:28.04 | ali1234 | depends what you are trying to do |
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| 02:27.58 | DonaldShimoda | ali1234, have a poble, i run update and change the kernel to be run |
| 02:28.09 | DonaldShimoda | how to indcate what kernel is the selected? |
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| 02:42.46 | dungeon_archl | meego will need 4square and a function "help from nearby". even share nearby. |
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| 03:23.24 | DonaldShimoda | ali1234, a problem |
| 03:23.36 | DonaldShimoda | i need xen support on the kernel to allow m,e run virtualbox |
| 03:23.45 | DonaldShimoda | theres any chance? |
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| 04:39.54 | iekku | morning |
| 04:41.08 | dm8tbr | moaning |
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| 05:07.49 | dbman63 | yo |
| 05:08.41 | Stskeeps | morn |
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| 05:09.52 | dbman63 | still night here :) |
| 05:10.15 | dbman63 | finally got around to installing the meego sdk |
| 05:10.19 | dbman63 | time to have some fun |
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| 06:05.37 | Alison_Chaiken | I take it that rather than continue searching for GTK+ for MeeGo, I should just play sudoku for a couple of hours and read Velonews? |
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| 06:06.38 | Stskeeps | GTK+ for meego should be in repo? |
| 06:07.10 | Stskeeps | unless you mean gtk3 |
| 06:08.17 | Alison_Chaiken | I wanted to compile VTE, which needs GTK+, but all I can find at meego.com is people complaining that they can't build something because they can't find GTK+ either. |
| 06:09.21 | Stskeeps | hmm |
| 06:09.45 | Stskeeps | fairly sure it's right there, i spent ages ripping it out of my minimal core work :P |
| 06:09.58 | Stskeeps | http://build.meego.com/package/show?package=gtk2&project=Trunk |
| 06:11.10 | Alison_Chaiken | Thanks, Stskeeps, I'll look. |
| 06:13.49 | mcfrisk_ | MeeGo OBS compiler defaults, where are they set? |
| 06:14.21 | Stskeeps | mcfrisk_: it ranges - ARM, check gcc.spec - we have --with-arch=armv7-a --with-float=hard etc |
| 06:14.35 | Stskeeps | mcfrisk_: rest is in rpmrc in rpm and meego-rpm-config |
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| 06:15.08 | mcfrisk_ | Stskeeps: thanks, I'm searching for x86 and IVI defaults |
| 06:15.28 | Stskeeps | ah, then you probably have strict atom patches in gcc |
| 06:15.49 | Stskeeps | if you manage to rip those out, i'm all ears on what you had to do ;) |
| 06:18.07 | mcfrisk_ | sounds bad, but I'm only searching for the defaults, meego-rpm-config has them. |
| 06:18.41 | Stskeeps | yep |
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| 06:19.46 | Alison_Chaiken | mcfrisk_, what is your HW? Unless you have EMGD graphics, IVI i586 packages produce bad results. |
| 06:20.21 | Alison_Chaiken | BTW, Stskeeps, I see that what I need to do is tell pkconfig that gtk-2.0 IS gtk+. |
| 06:21.32 | Stskeeps | Alison_Chaiken: btw, http://build.meego.com/package/show?package=vte&project=Trunk |
| 06:21.59 | Alison_Chaiken | Wow, Stskeeps, even better! |
| 06:22.11 | mcfrisk_ | Our public hw is OKI board |
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| 06:45.13 | Alison_Chaiken | Multiple xterms on same ExoPC screen via terminator: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/99725460@N00/sets/72157627472462085/ |
| 06:45.33 | Alison_Chaiken | Yay! Hey berndhs_meego . |
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| 06:54.05 | Alison_Chaiken | Thanks again Stskeeps, I send you a virtual Zywiec Porter . |
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| 06:54.59 | Alison_Chaiken | mcfrisk_, which graphics chip does your OKI have? EMGD is easy to use with 1.2 IVI, i915 not so much, although it can be done. |
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| 07:00.52 | iekku | core os bug triage starting |
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| 07:31.48 | dm8tbr | 07:18:04< forMeeGoBot> RECOVERY api.meego.com OBS_API OK Public API up Mon Sept 5 07:16:42 UTC 2011 |
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| 07:52.08 | lcuk | morning \o |
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| 08:47.21 | CosmoHill | .o/ |
| 08:53.12 | lcuk | CosmoHill, \o |
| 08:55.57 | CosmoHill | gives lcuk a cup of tea |
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| 09:00.14 | lcuk | thanks CosmoHill |
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| 09:03.00 | lcuk | libreoffice does not include project planning |
| 09:03.12 | lcuk | sighs |
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| 09:04.20 | CosmoHill | slips lcuk MS Project 2010 |
| 09:05.28 | lcuk | CosmoHill, i have linux on my computers, I could go and buy it though |
| 09:05.48 | lcuk | starts with pencil and paper |
| 09:06.05 | CosmoHill | you know when you first boot a computer and windows asks you if you agree to the EULA? |
| 09:06.15 | CosmoHill | if you say No you can get a refund on the OS |
| 09:06.16 | lcuk | CosmoHill, no |
| 09:07.11 | hena | lcuk: good luck with project planning software |
| 09:07.24 | hena | sadly all better options on that are web services :/ |
| 09:07.48 | CosmoHill | I'd stick with paper |
| 09:07.59 | CosmoHill | I mean unless you need something complex like a gant chart |
| 09:08.11 | hena | yeah, planner does basic stuff, but really not enough |
| 09:08.17 | Aard | funny thing is that the algorithms behind the project planning stuff are pretty simple, probably the most easy to write software in the office package, but no-one cares |
| 09:09.02 | CosmoHill | wouldn't the smart thing to do to be to write the awesome planning software, and then use that to plan the rest of the suite? |
| 09:09.31 | lcuk | CosmoHill, I need something complex like a gant chart. :| |
| 09:09.41 | lcuk | CosmoHill, no it wouldn't |
| 09:09.47 | Aard | requires some management background, which probably most of the software developers don't have |
| 09:10.08 | lcuk | hena, Aard - something I do not have |
| 09:10.34 | lcuk | but I have a damned good idea for a product and am frustrated at inability to spec it out |
| 09:10.53 | Aard | lcuk: there are fancy software packages to draw charts, and you can just throw your data into an sqlite file for that |
| 09:11.12 | Aard | (ms project just uses access databases, with pretty fucked up table definitions) |
| 09:11.22 | lcuk | Aard, personally I would like to talk with actual business people who understand all this |
| 09:11.27 | lcuk | and make a plan with them |
| 09:11.42 | lcuk | rather than me fuddling trying to do something I have never done before |
| 09:11.56 | lcuk | but, business people do not come online |
| 09:12.10 | lcuk | and business plans are not commonly worked on openly |
| 09:12.24 | Stskeeps | that's why you marry someone from a business school |
| 09:12.24 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 09:12.34 | Stskeeps | <3 my wife |
| 09:12.38 | lcuk | Stskeeps, that is indeed a good idea |
| 09:12.44 | lcuk | marries Stskeeps' wife |
| 09:12.50 | Stskeeps | pfft |
| 09:12.51 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 09:12.59 | CosmoHill | did a management module |
| 09:13.06 | CosmoHill | goes looking for his assignment |
| 09:13.16 | lcuk | i have never done business |
| 09:13.31 | lcuk | I just write stuff down :$ |
| 09:13.34 | Aard | lcuk: it's mostly common sense, covered in layers of bullshit |
| 09:13.38 | lcuk | and make it work well |
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| 09:13.59 | lcuk | Aard, that is my problem, I try to simplify things too much |
| 09:14.01 | CosmoHill | most of my year 3 module assignments never made it back to me |
| 09:14.11 | CosmoHill | apart from the ones that go "you suck; C" |
| 09:14.32 | Aard | lcuk: nothing wrong with simplifying it, you don't need all those bullshit layers. that's just for management people who lack the common sense, and need teaching |
| 09:15.05 | lcuk | i want to just make the video and then talk with people to actually make it into areal plan |
| 09:15.15 | lcuk | but it would be quite a big plan :$ |
| 09:15.23 | lcuk | and need lots of money I gather to do it properly |
| 09:15.36 | lcuk | or I could s/meego/android/ and do it easier I guess |
| 09:16.04 | lcuk | since the coding would not be from me |
| 09:16.11 | lcuk | and would come from contracted parties |
| 09:16.23 | Venemo_N950 | good afternoon lcuk |
| 09:16.24 | Venemo_N950 | ) |
| 09:16.27 | Venemo_N950 | :) |
| 09:16.31 | lcuk | I suppose it wouldn't matter what os it ended up written in |
| 09:16.32 | lcuk | hi Venemo_N950 |
| 09:17.12 | lcuk | does anybody know the difference between salary of employee and the contracting rate? |
| 09:17.36 | Stskeeps | add pension + health insurance/social security on top |
| 09:17.38 | RST38h | In US or in UK? |
| 09:17.39 | Venemo_N950 | lcuk, there are project planning software for linux |
| 09:17.43 | CosmoHill | lcuk: cross platform ftw |
| 09:17.50 | Stskeeps | and watch out for not accidentially being classified as a employee instead |
| 09:18.10 | RST38h | In US, Salary = employer pays your social security related taxes for you, at least partially |
| 09:18.17 | lcuk | Stskeeps, yeah I know |
| 09:18.29 | lcuk | but all this kind of stuff needs considering |
| 09:18.36 | Stskeeps | now, if you claim to be a consultant, add about 40% of bullshit costs on top |
| 09:18.39 | RST38h | Contracting = you pay all the taxes, including so called self-employment tax (i.e. the social security related part) |
| 09:18.44 | hena | lcuk: planner does gantt charts |
| 09:18.47 | lcuk | for instance, Stskeeps - if it wasw using the mer core, what sort of costs would there be |
| 09:18.50 | Venemo_N950 | lcuk, by the way, what product are you planning exactly? |
| 09:18.59 | Stskeeps | lcuk: ok, that's a tangent.. what? |
| 09:19.00 | Stskeeps | P |
| 09:19.01 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 09:19.10 | CosmoHill | lcuk: I'll let you know what a graduate c++ developer could make tomorrow afternoon |
| 09:19.13 | lcuk | Stskeeps, no - it is something a vendor would ask |
| 09:19.21 | lcuk | real tough questions |
| 09:19.26 | Venemo_N950 | lcuk, cost of Mer is buying a beer for Stskeeps |
| 09:19.34 | lcuk | no Venemo_N950 it isn't |
| 09:19.41 | Venemo_N950 | ?? |
| 09:19.43 | Stskeeps | lcuk: you can probably get by with infrastructure costs, like 50-69eur/month |
| 09:19.49 | Aard | CosmoHill: graduation does not count much as contractor (actually, as employee usually not as well), it's more about experience and how good you can sell yourself |
| 09:20.03 | RST38h | lcuk: For contracting, you basically sign a contract with the guy, which states what he has to produce, in what time, and what the compensation will be |
| 09:20.07 | RST38h | lcuk: This is it. |
| 09:20.28 | lcuk | RST38h, yes I understand |
| 09:20.35 | RST38h | lcuk: You then expense his pay from your business tax forms |
| 09:20.46 | lcuk | Stskeeps, I am asking how much a vendor would be expected to pay to ensure upkeep of meego/mer |
| 09:21.03 | Stskeeps | lcuk: contributions is what keeps things going, and open source is free |
| 09:21.04 | RST38h | Hell, it can be a VERBAL agreement, for all it is worth, although I would stringly suggest against it :) |
| 09:21.22 | lcuk | Stskeeps, so what kind of contribution and what does the vendor get for that |
| 09:21.27 | Venemo_N950 | Stskeeps, there are two possible ways. |
| 09:21.39 | Stskeeps | lcuk: workers, donations in hardware, perhaps taking on duties itself, sharing the load |
| 09:21.49 | Stskeeps | it's possible to be a freeloader at own risk |
| 09:22.08 | Venemo_N950 | Stskeeps, 1) you just take what's there and run with the code - free. 2) you can hire the key developers of the project for money. |
| 09:22.12 | Stskeeps | :nod: |
| 09:22.22 | lcuk | Stskeeps, I am not trying to be freeloader, I am asking a serious question |
| 09:22.28 | Venemo_N950 | sorry, that was for lc |
| 09:22.34 | Venemo_N950 | lcuk |
| 09:22.34 | lcuk | that if a project were to go ahead using the meego infrastructure |
| 09:22.47 | Stskeeps | lcuk: and i'm answering - in practice a company would not use meego infrastructure |
| 09:22.48 | lcuk | and make a meego product |
| 09:22.52 | Venemo_N950 | lcuk, , 1) you just take what's there and run with the code - free. 2) you can hire the key developers of the project for money. |
| 09:22.52 | Stskeeps | it would have it's own |
| 09:23.02 | Stskeeps | where it imports what meego project produces |
| 09:23.52 | lcuk | how does a vendor have confidence that meego will produce solid reliable core? |
| 09:24.02 | RST38h | vendor does not |
| 09:24.08 | RST38h | this is open source fo ryou |
| 09:24.14 | RST38h | no cost, no commitments |
| 09:24.43 | Stskeeps | lcuk: best way is to contribute to making it so and seeing the output of the project |
| 09:25.06 | lcuk | Stskeeps, that is not something I can put on a business plan really |
| 09:25.20 | Stskeeps | lcuk: "don't have to maintain a Linux distro myself" |
| 09:25.28 | Stskeeps | that is direct value for many |
| 09:26.01 | Venemo | lcuk, "how does a vendor have confidence that meego will produce solid reliable core?" --> a vendor can hire developers whose job is to ensure that. |
| 09:26.38 | Stskeeps | also, with open source, if things go tits up, you still have the software |
| 09:26.49 | Stskeeps | and don't have to fight with whoever is the manager of the bankrupt firm on licensing terms |
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| 09:27.19 | Venemo | lcuk, the more important questions are 1) how do you get the necessary money for developing your product. 2) how do you get users to actually buy it when it's done |
| 09:27.44 | RST38h | lcuk: May I point out an interesting detail? |
| 09:27.55 | RST38h | Which might be of some use |
| 09:29.05 | lcuk | by all means RST38h |
| 09:29.24 | RST38h | lcuk: The main point investors will look for in your business plan is how you are going ot make money |
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| 09:30.20 | RST38h | lcuk: As "I will make money by using Meego because it is open source" is obviously a pointless statement, it may be a good idea to avoid mentioning Meego at all, or mention it much later in the plan, as a method to cut dev costs |
| 09:30.37 | lcuk | RST38h, sure |
| 09:30.43 | RST38h | lcuk: But, again, the main question IS NOT what Linux distro you will use. It is how you are gonna make money |
| 09:30.49 | lcuk | as stated, this plan will work with android as much as with meego |
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| 09:31.11 | RST38h | And android does provide a full software stack, unlike Meego |
| 09:31.21 | RST38h | But of course, this completeness comes t a cost. |
| 09:33.23 | lcuk | RST38h, I want to add a whole new method of communication. towards short term money making there can be a number of simpler client apps on the other app stores to run some of the features whilst the ux is built |
| 09:33.48 | RST38h | lcuk: emphasize short term gains |
| 09:34.42 | lcuk | RST38h, sals on ovi/appup/market/ipad for calendar and stuff. simple steps whilst building a more comprehensive set |
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| 09:35.03 | lcuk | short contract for each app would get a client built |
| 09:35.05 | lcuk | and tested |
| 09:35.17 | lcuk | i have the synchronisation aspect working |
| 09:35.23 | lcuk | so that clients in any os are possible |
| 09:35.40 | RST38h | lcuk: you do know that the app store stuff does not sell, in general? |
| 09:35.41 | lcuk | i just don't have the polishing skills myself to do it |
| 09:36.03 | lcuk | RST38h, depends who you are selling it to |
| 09:36.26 | RST38h | lcuk: no, I mean it in a different sense |
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| 09:36.46 | RST38h | lcuk: You are very unlikely to make any money selling your apps via established app stores (Apple, Goolge) |
| 09:37.14 | RST38h | lcuk: Most likely, you will bring $500-$2000/month in sales for all your efforts. |
| 09:37.35 | SpeedEvil | 500-2000 adds up if you've got several |
| 09:37.41 | lcuk | RST38h, if that coverse the contracts for making the apps then its a win |
| 09:37.46 | RST38h | Speed: TOTAL./ |
| 09:38.00 | RST38h | lcuk: It will not |
| 09:38.12 | lcuk | RST38h, and sales come from use, something like the calendar is not a run once thing |
| 09:38.19 | RST38h | lcuk: Nobody works for peanuts, and you also have to pay yourself. Do not forget that. |
| 09:38.22 | lcuk | it is a practical useful day to day thing |
| 09:38.30 | lcuk | RST38h, I never forget that |
| 09:38.33 | RST38h | lcuk: Ok. How will you charge for the use? |
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| 09:39.31 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: Some people work for peanuts. |
| 09:39.45 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: If you can live on peanuts, and are happy with peanuts - then why not? |
| 09:40.38 | RST38h | Speed: They are usually not the same people who can do software development well |
| 09:40.47 | SpeedEvil | points at india. |
| 09:41.01 | RST38h | points to "well" and indicates it as the keyword |
| 09:41.16 | SpeedEvil | There are skilled coders in india. |
| 09:41.18 | SpeedEvil | But, yes. |
| 09:41.37 | RST38h | The best you can hope for with peanuts is Moldovans. |
| 09:41.42 | CosmoHill | they maybe skilled but do they understand the culture of the program they are writing |
| 09:42.03 | RST38h | Cosmo; Forget the culture, they usually do not understand the program |
| 09:42.13 | RST38h | But anyway, it is kinda offtopic |
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| 09:42.32 | lcuk | I am going for a smoke, bbiab |
| 09:42.58 | CosmoHill | as long as you don't fire whoever you contract and finish it off in house with people who have never heard of the program you should be ...better off |
| 09:43.01 | CosmoHill | wait smoking? |
| 09:43.17 | Stskeeps | yes, people smoke |
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| 09:46.28 | Stskeeps | For one of our projects we are in need of the products that can meet the specification as described in the following. The drawing, together with the relevant reference, will be sent by E-mail to you. 1. Name: plastic gaskets 2. Material: 757ABS 3. Quantity: 5,000,000pcs |
| 09:46.34 | Stskeeps | spam has gotten worse over time. |
| 09:46.50 | Stskeeps | but i guess i have an alternative business model.. |
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| 09:51.00 | RST38h | Stskeeps: makes one wonder what these guys are hoping for |
| 09:51.22 | RST38h | Stskeeps: Are they trying to scap the previous spammers who offered plastic gaskets? |
| 09:51.32 | RST38h | s/scap/scam |
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| 09:52.09 | SpeedEvil | I'd guess they are the reuslt of poorly internet-educated buisnesses hitting a spammers page fist |
| 09:52.11 | SpeedEvil | first |
| 09:52.21 | SpeedEvil | 'find leads for your buisness' |
| 09:56.03 | CosmoHill | it get kinda annoyed when people reply to emails from their banks without thinking "hold on, I never told them my / this email address: |
| 09:58.50 | CosmoHill | some spam I get randomly had " ," at the end of any subject |
| 09:59.13 | lcuk | :) |
| 09:59.47 | CosmoHill | "#You have a new secure message from Halifaxâ" << Very secure considering I don't use this bank |
| 10:01.16 | CosmoHill | lcuk: web |
| 10:01.23 | CosmoHill | *wb |
| 10:02.36 | lcuk | CosmoHill, did you see the developer_devices chart by the way |
| 10:02.45 | lcuk | vgrade added links to most of the device wiki pages |
| 10:02.51 | CosmoHill | yes I gave him a cookie for that |
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| 10:10.38 | CosmoHill | looks at the CLFS changelog and wonders what's happened to the other developers |
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| 10:16.44 | arfoll | CosmoHill: on that list how far are we going to go? |
| 10:17.14 | CosmoHill | arfoll: my plan was for it to be any device a developer owns and uses for the purposes of meego |
| 10:18.14 | arfoll | CosmoHill: isn't there this allready ? http://wiki.meego.com/Devices |
| 10:18.59 | CosmoHill | hmm |
| 10:19.57 | Stskeeps | arfoll: a nice result this morning for raspberry pi: qmlviewer + xorg + full gles + connman/ofono/bluez in 29mb |
| 10:20.52 | CosmoHill | they are devices compatible with meego, not nessacarly owned by developers. the aim for the page was for developers to see what other developers used to work on meego |
| 10:21.04 | arfoll | Stskeeps: very nice! now we just have to get a few of thos pis and boot meego |
| 10:21.12 | Stskeeps | :nod: |
| 10:21.13 | arfoll | have you emailed the guy? |
| 10:21.26 | Stskeeps | i still need to shape it a bit more up before i send some fs'es around |
| 10:21.37 | Stskeeps | this was on n900, i think you're CC'ed on all convos |
| 10:22.56 | arfoll | don't think so? which convos? about armv6 with michael davey or other? |
| 10:23.18 | Stskeeps | yeah, those |
| 10:23.22 | arfoll | CosmoHill: i dont really see the point of seperating the two... people jsut want to to see what devices work/are being worked on - should be on the same page no? |
| 10:24.00 | CosmoHill | shurgs |
| 10:24.29 | CosmoHill | it wasn't something that was thought through before it was made |
| 10:24.31 | arfoll | Stskeeps: yep. no new mails for 13 days though ;-) |
| 10:24.56 | Stskeeps | :nod: |
| 10:25.00 | Stskeeps | time has passed on :P |
| 10:25.21 | arfoll | CosmoHill: merge maybe? I mean the first page could do with some love, but listing device specs IMO is a little pointless, i think maybe making stubs for devices with no instructions for meego install would be a nice push |
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| 10:26.20 | CosmoHill | would you want to keep the first page as a list or convert it to a table? |
| 10:27.27 | arfoll | CosmoHill: your table if you can get the ordering done wikipedia style |
| 10:27.41 | CosmoHill | looks through the page and thinks it could do with more than a bit of love |
| 10:27.54 | arfoll | otherwise i think an organised list split by device category (and maybe arm vs x86) would be nice |
| 10:27.55 | CosmoHill | arfoll: that's something I want to figure out how to do |
| 10:28.06 | arfoll | i agree the page is a mess |
| 10:28.26 | CosmoHill | I also don't like that "meego will run on this device when it comes out" |
| 10:28.29 | arfoll | but maybe actually what should be done is a list of SOCs/CPUs supported and under the page of the SOC/CPU have the devices tested |
| 10:28.52 | arfoll | well for "future" devices a nice little "future" category is easy to do |
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| 10:32.06 | arfoll | goes to lunch |
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| 10:49.15 | CosmoHill | can't hear anything and his desk is vibrating cos people are insulating his walls |
| 10:50.01 | Stskeeps | putting you in a padded cell? |
| 10:50.17 | dm8tbr | read ... insulting his walls |
| 10:50.31 | CosmoHill | that would make sleeping in the corner comfier |
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| 11:00.52 | KaIRC | CosmoHill: I think a three-tiered list is needed: 1) devices that come with MeeGo pre-installed, 2) devices that have good instructions for how to get MeeGo to run, 3) devices people are working on to get them supported (or have partial support) |
| 11:01.12 | KaIRC | CosmoHill: 2 and 3 could also be annotations in the same list, of course |
| 11:02.01 | KaIRC | and instructions and/or more info should be linked from that list |
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| 11:11.35 | lcuk | good idea KaIRC |
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| 11:14.23 | timoph | lcuk: I'll be in manchester sunday morning before 10 |
| 11:14.54 | lcuk | at the airport or are you having to travel to the centre? |
| 11:15.07 | timoph | airport afaik |
| 11:15.24 | lcuk | will you have time for a coffee? |
| 11:16.07 | timoph | plenty since I have the whole day to get myself to where I'm going (the ~130km trip) |
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| 11:35.56 | CosmoHill | http://wiki.meego.com/Developer_Devices |
| 11:35.59 | CosmoHill | sortable tables :) |
| 11:40.31 | arfoll | CosmoHill: looks good, now remove the chipset column |
| 11:41.54 | lcuk | all those devices are awesome |
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| 11:51.36 | niqt | http://wiki.meego.com/Installing_MeeGo_Tablet_Developer_Preview_on_WeTab_Tablet |
| 11:52.02 | niqt | i have installed on wetag andr writed this |
| 11:52.16 | niqt | is it developer device? |
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| 11:59.41 | CosmoHill | there's no wetab on the list |
| 11:59.49 | CosmoHill | however the list was quickly made saturday morning |
| 12:00.10 | CosmoHill | http://wiki.meego.com/Devices |
| 12:00.14 | CosmoHill | it's on this page |
| 12:00.34 | vgrade | wetab and exopc are similar if not identical hw wise |
| 12:04.38 | arfoll | vgrade: theres an issue with the wetab bootloader though which is worthy of a note |
| 12:05.56 | leinir | they're /almost/ identical - they have different bluetooth modules, and i think there's different amounts of ram in them, otherwise they're the same |
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| 12:38.23 | bkalinga | Currently I have Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU W3505 @ 2.53GHz cpu cores: 2(does not have a in built intel graphics card ) |
| 12:38.25 | bkalinga | can someone please tell me the processor name that you are currently using for meego related development using xephyr/scratchbox |
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| 12:47.49 | bkalinga | Is it possible to use MeeGo with xephyr/scratchbox set up with my present Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU W3505 @ 2.53GHz processor that has 2 cores |
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| 12:48.39 | bkalinga | but in one of the wiki page i had seen intel graphics chip as the pre-requisite for MeeGo+xephyr set up |
| 12:48.55 | bkalinga | anyone has more clue about it |
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| 13:24.59 | inean | hello everyone |
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| 13:45.17 | Stskeeps | hi inean |
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| 15:10.54 | huge__ | what's true with this news http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20110901PD217.html ?? |
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| 15:12.09 | annma | huge__: Intel denies it's true |
| 15:12.51 | Stskeeps | huge__: it shows that the internet can't read |
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| 15:13.05 | Stskeeps | huge__: there was a rumour, and intel states it's still committed to meego |
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| 15:17.10 | huge__ | good ... |
| 15:24.53 | Ans5i | still... |
| 15:26.45 | GAN900 | Stskeeps, Jaaksi said the same thing about webOS. *g* |
| 15:27.32 | slaine | GAN900: haven't they proved that by keeping webOS and splitting off the hardware ? |
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| 15:29.16 | KaIRC | slaine: well, then they land in almost the same situation as Intel in the end - a mobile OS but no devices to run it on |
| 15:29.42 | KaIRC | though our situation with MeeGo is better due to the openness and community |
| 15:30.01 | KaIRC | we can make devices run the OS even though they are not released with it |
| 15:30.02 | GAN900 | Yes . . . the openness. |
| 15:30.28 | GAN900 | slaine, my slightly cynical point is that there are a lot of shades of gray between. |
| 15:31.28 | andre__ | on the paper the situation is better wrt openness, sure. |
| 15:32.08 | berndhs | maybe Intel has a new partner that's being kept quiet for now |
| 15:32.33 | ali1234 | microsoft? |
| 15:32.40 | berndhs | how long beforehand was the Intel-Nokia thing announced? |
| 15:32.53 | ali1234 | before what? |
| 15:33.16 | berndhs | i mean the Moblin -> MeeGo change |
| 15:33.26 | ali1234 | it was all announced at the same time |
| 15:34.08 | berndhs | right, that was basicall overnight for Moblin and Maemo people |
| 15:34.12 | ali1234 | i heard the rumour about a week before |
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| 15:34.29 | DonaldShimoda | good morning |
| 15:34.35 | DonaldShimoda | ali1234, how you are |
| 15:34.38 | DonaldShimoda | :P |
| 15:34.53 | ali1234 | oh, fine |
| 15:35.10 | berndhs | it's still morning, don't know about "good" :) |
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| 15:38.35 | ali1234 | DonaldShimoda: how is 2GB working out for you? |
| 15:38.52 | iekku | berndhs, morning |
| 15:39.03 | DonaldShimoda | berndhs, hehe, just saying hi |
| 15:39.11 | iekku | berndhs, hope your day is going to be good |
| 15:39.13 | DonaldShimoda | ali1234, work fine, thanks |
| 15:39.24 | berndhs | iekku: there is still hope :) |
| 15:39.32 | iekku | :D |
| 15:39.33 | DonaldShimoda | ali1234, but i need virtualbox, and cannot install because the kjernel dont have xen support |
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| 15:39.41 | ali1234 | what did you do last time? |
| 15:39.50 | DonaldShimoda | ali1234, any chance to add this support? |
| 15:39.59 | ali1234 | maybe |
| 15:40.20 | DonaldShimoda | just try to install virtualbox but ask for xen.h on the headers, and is m,issing |
| 15:40.30 | ali1234 | hmm |
| 15:40.43 | ali1234 | dunno about that then |
| 15:40.51 | ali1234 | did it work before? |
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| 15:40.52 | Stskeeps | DonaldShimoda: did you install kernel-adaptation-XXXX-devel? |
| 15:41.06 | DonaldShimoda | yes, yes |
| 15:41.14 | DonaldShimoda | Stskeeps, the headers are there, but no xen |
| 15:41.24 | DonaldShimoda | Stskeeps, happens im using a custom kernel , build by ali1234 |
| 15:41.31 | DonaldShimoda | i need use my 2GB |
| 15:41.32 | Stskeeps | ok |
| 15:42.10 | huge__ | there are rumours about Samsung will become the power of MeeGo. Could this be true ? hmmmm |
| 15:42.20 | ali1234 | i think it might be due to missing link at /lib/modules/`uname -r`/build |
| 15:42.33 | ali1234 | can you check if that exists? |
| 15:42.45 | ali1234 | it should point to kernel headers |
| 15:42.52 | Stskeeps | huge__: there's also a rumour that steve jobs is a space alien, nokia is being sold to it's former tire firm and pigs can fly |
| 15:42.55 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 15:44.25 | ali1234 | what is the correct way to install kernel packages on meego? |
| 15:44.37 | ali1234 | if i just install the rpm it isn't added to extlinux.conf |
| 15:44.53 | huge__ | :D |
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| 15:50.03 | berndhs | Stskeeps: pigs fly just fine, give sufficient thrust |
| 15:52.07 | ali1234 | how do i add my COBS repo to zypper repos? |
| 15:53.40 | Stskeeps | you know the path, right? http one |
| 15:53.58 | Stskeeps | there is a .repo file there |
| 15:54.00 | Stskeeps | zypper ar that |
| 15:54.09 | ali1234 | thanks |
| 15:54.39 | ali1234 | package kit is blocking. stupid package kit |
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| 15:58.52 | ali1234 | i keep getting "grubby fatal error: unable to find a suitable template" |
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| 16:08.51 | GeneralAntilles | berndhs, I think serious talks started in 2009. |
| 16:09.42 | RST38h | it is all purely academic now |
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| 16:26.41 | DonaldShimoda | then how can i build my own kernel please , anybody can help me with this? |
| 16:26.48 | DonaldShimoda | any tutorial to follow? |
| 16:27.05 | DonaldShimoda | i need to enable 2GB and xen |
| 16:27.17 | DonaldShimoda | and maybe some other stuff i will discover on the road |
| 16:29.36 | DonaldShimoda | toc toc |
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| 16:30.49 | slonopotamus | sadly, that's a forgotten knowledge |
| 16:32.34 | ali1234 | Stskeeps: i want to put a link to meego-1.2.conf on the wiki page, so that the instructions actually work. what should i link to? |
| 16:33.13 | DonaldShimoda | really i find unusuable a linux distribution without the posibility tio BUILD a kernel in a consisten way |
| 16:33.34 | ali1234 | you can build it on OBS, just like I did |
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| 16:34.48 | DonaldShimoda | i cannot, dont have a account |
| 16:34.55 | Stskeeps | ali1234: you got a kernel compiling? |
| 16:35.02 | ali1234 | Stskeeps: um. yes? |
| 16:35.08 | DonaldShimoda | and oth , have no sense, why i must depend of somebody allow me to build a kernel |
| 16:35.14 | Stskeeps | ali1234: oh, what was the problem? |
| 16:35.20 | ali1234 | Stskeeps: which? |
| 16:35.21 | DonaldShimoda | is plain stupid |
| 16:35.23 | slonopotamus | DonaldShimoda: meego has a totally brain-damaged build system. i'm afraid you need an obs account |
| 16:35.28 | ali1234 | Stskeeps: there was about a zillion problems |
| 16:35.40 | Stskeeps | ali1234: ok, so what fixed it? :P |
| 16:35.56 | ali1234 | do you mean on OBS? |
| 16:36.01 | ali1234 | or with build? |
| 16:36.04 | DonaldShimoda | slonopotamus, not for me then, i love the interface but dont wanna a closed system. sorry guys |
| 16:36.08 | DonaldShimoda | see you in other life |
| 16:36.12 | DonaldShimoda | im done with this |
| 16:36.24 | Stskeeps | ali1234: with build |
| 16:36.33 | ali1234 | with build the problem was missing meego-1.2.conf |
| 16:36.34 | slonopotamus | DonaldShimoda: i'm not a meego dev, maybe i'm wrong |
| 16:36.34 | RST38h | You simply do not understand how cool OBS is |
| 16:36.55 | RST38h | It lets a score of Linux hackers and master system admins have fun for hours at a time |
| 16:37.06 | Stskeeps | ali1234: ok, and it worked after that? |
| 16:37.09 | ali1234 | yes |
| 16:37.13 | Stskeeps | well then |
| 16:37.16 | Stskeeps | slonopotamus: wrong |
| 16:37.16 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 16:37.30 | Stskeeps | ali1234: i thought there was a lot of "no such file or directory" errors |
| 16:37.31 | RST38h | Your difficulties are nothing compared to the potential of mental self gratification OBS has |
| 16:37.33 | ali1234 | all those errors that it barfed out where non fatal |
| 16:37.35 | Bostik | you don't NEED obs to build things, but getting the whole cahin up (and configured) in a virtual machine is pain |
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| 16:38.02 | slonopotamus | looks like RST38h knows better :) |
| 16:38.03 | Stskeeps | ali1234: odd |
| 16:38.12 | DonaldShimoda | good bye people,. tyhanks a lot ali1234 for your effort, i really apreciated man |
| 16:38.13 | Bostik | and even then there are occasionally funky inconsistencies :) |
| 16:38.14 | DonaldShimoda | bye |
| 16:38.14 | RST38h | moos evilly |
| 16:38.25 | *** part/#meego DonaldShimoda (~germangen@SCZ-190-104-5-00152.wimaxtigo.bo) |
| 16:38.39 | RST38h | slono: Won't the poor guy able to do his thing in the Platform SDK? |
| 16:38.42 | ali1234 | Bostik: on a sensible distro, getting the virtual machine up would involve: 1. install meego release image 2. zypper si <package> |
| 16:38.57 | ali1234 | do it on a virtual machine, or on real hardware, it should not matter |
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| 16:39.30 | ali1234 | however that does not work |
| 16:39.44 | ali1234 | even when bilding on meego on real hardware, we still need to set up a virtual machine especially for the task |
| 16:39.44 | Bostik | ali1234: not that, it's the fact that some builds end up really odd in vm, such as getting "impossible" binary deps |
| 16:39.45 | slonopotamus | RST38h: no idea. i don't understand why one needs _anything_ besides source, gcc and make in order to compile kernel. |
| 16:39.48 | ali1234 | rpmbuild still does not work |
| 16:40.06 | slonopotamus | well, also binutils |
| 16:40.12 | Stskeeps | ali1234: URL for the guide? |
| 16:40.28 | ali1234 | Stskeeps: http://wiki.meego.com/Local_Build_Without_OBS_Needed |
| 16:40.33 | Stskeeps | ali1234: thanks |
| 16:40.33 | RST38h | slono: well, I think he also needs a system with the same arch as the target |
| 16:40.47 | ali1234 | not for kernel |
| 16:40.48 | RST38h | slono: running the same OS. at least it is going to be easier this way |
| 16:40.59 | slonopotamus | RST38h: of course no! why? |
| 16:41.04 | RST38h | A Meego-running VM would do |
| 16:41.06 | ali1234 | kernel cross compile system actually works |
| 16:41.19 | ali1234 | it's normally one of the easiest parts to build |
| 16:41.23 | RST38h | Then WTH did he want OBS? |
| 16:41.37 | ali1234 | who? |
| 16:42.19 | ali1234 | you currently need OBS to build the MEEGO kernel |
| 16:42.27 | ali1234 | because it is packaged as an RPM |
| 16:42.39 | ali1234 | you need to run the prep to get the kernel configs built |
| 16:42.44 | ali1234 | and you need it as an rpm package |
| 16:42.52 | ali1234 | sure, building *A* kernel is trivial |
| 16:43.04 | ali1234 | building the exact kernel from meego is not, due to the build system being whack |
| 16:43.09 | slonopotamus | RST38h: all you need to build a kernel is: binutils producing binaries for target platform, gcc producing asm for target platform, make and kernel sources. that's all. |
| 16:44.04 | ali1234 | it is possible to build the meego kernel without OBS but the instructions are currently broken |
| 16:44.10 | ali1234 | i think Stskeeps is fixing them right now |
| 16:44.19 | Stskeeps | ali1234: i thought you said you managed to do it with build |
| 16:44.22 | ali1234 | i did |
| 16:44.28 | ali1234 | but the instructions on the wiki don't work |
| 16:44.31 | Stskeeps | ok |
| 16:44.54 | ali1234 | so as i was saying |
| 16:45.08 | ali1234 | the instructions need to link to meego-1.2.conf in order to work around the bug |
| 16:45.11 | Stskeeps | right |
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| 16:46.05 | Stskeeps | ali1234: let's see.. |
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| 16:54.39 | Stskeeps | ali1234: running the build now |
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| 17:03.08 | Stskeeps | ali1234: http://pastie.org/2486776 , though on my fedora |
| 17:03.44 | Stskeeps | build 2011.03.29 |
| 17:04.12 | Stskeeps | i'll check on my meego later |
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| 17:34.53 | Stskeeps | ali1234: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/httpdocs/kernel-pinetrail.txt |
| 17:35.01 | Stskeeps | err.. |
| 17:35.05 | Stskeeps | ali1234: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/kernel-pinetrail.txt |
| 17:35.10 | ali1234 | Stskeeps: what's the paste about? |
| 17:35.31 | ali1234 | the fedora one |
| 17:35.33 | Stskeeps | ali1234: that i set up meego-1.2.conf and did a kernel compile |
| 17:35.34 | Stskeeps | yes |
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| 17:35.38 | Stskeeps | with fedora |
| 17:35.42 | ali1234 | yes |
| 17:35.46 | ali1234 | so did i |
| 17:35.56 | Stskeeps | i don't see same errors as you though, i'll have to try it out on meego |
| 17:36.02 | Stskeeps | what build version do you have there? |
| 17:36.04 | Stskeeps | rpm -q --info build |
| 17:36.06 | ali1234 | yes you do |
| 17:36.10 | Stskeeps | i do? |
| 17:36.10 | ali1234 | http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/kernel-pinetrail.txt |
| 17:36.41 | ali1234 | the missing meego-1.2.confis the only error |
| 17:36.46 | Stskeeps | ok |
| 17:37.01 | Stskeeps | i thought you saw "no such file or directory" too |
| 17:37.01 | ali1234 | the stuff about missing files is... i dunno what it is. but it doesn't affect anything |
| 17:37.11 | Stskeeps | ok |
| 17:37.13 | ali1234 | yeah, it doesn't make any difference |
| 17:37.17 | ali1234 | rpm still builds |
| 17:37.22 | Stskeeps | ok |
| 17:37.34 | ali1234 | how do i check package version? |
| 17:37.39 | Stskeeps | rpm -q --info pkg |
| 17:38.04 | ali1234 | build-2011.01.10a-1.2 |
| 17:38.08 | Stskeeps | ok |
| 17:39.17 | Stskeeps | RST38h: because slono said he needed it |
| 17:39.24 | Stskeeps | er, was scrolled back |
| 17:40.08 | Stskeeps | ali1234: i added wgetting the meego-1.2 from my site :P |
| 17:41.14 | Stskeeps | ok, so we conclude you can build without OBS, good |
| 17:41.14 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 17:41.37 | ali1234 | build the kernel yeah :) |
| 17:41.43 | ali1234 | there's about a zillion other packages i didn't try :) |
| 17:41.51 | Stskeeps | same should work for other |
| 17:41.54 | ali1234 | do you think build will work on ubuntu? |
| 17:41.55 | Stskeeps | i mean, osc just calls build |
| 17:41.58 | Stskeeps | yes |
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| 17:42.07 | ali1234 | i mean the version that is in ubuntu :) |
| 17:42.25 | Stskeeps | ah.. 2011.01.XX is probably needed for arm distros |
| 17:42.40 | ali1234 | not too bothered about arm |
| 17:43.01 | ali1234 | and i still think it should be possible to build the kernel using rpmbuild, without having to run a whole virtual machine to do it |
| 17:43.16 | ali1234 | build just calls rpmbuild inside the vm anyway right? |
| 17:43.16 | Stskeeps | no disagreement |
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| 17:44.17 | ali1234 | looks like build isn't packaged for ubuntu |
| 17:44.30 | ali1234 | and there is no meego tools repo for 11.04 |
| 17:45.25 | ali1234 | i just remembered i don't have ssse3 anyway so it doesn't matter |
| 17:45.30 | ali1234 | have to build on netbook |
| 17:45.35 | Stskeeps | ali1234: try to have your .rpmmacros be equal to this: |
| 17:45.38 | Stskeeps | http://pastie.org/2486961 |
| 17:45.47 | Stskeeps | before doing rpmbuild |
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| 17:46.06 | ali1234 | ~/.rpmmacros? |
| 17:46.16 | Stskeeps | yes, if that's where your rpmbuild will pick it up from |
| 17:46.30 | ali1234 | well... i have no idea |
| 17:46.50 | Stskeeps | if i think that's where :P |
| 17:46.58 | Stskeeps | so let's just try that |
| 17:47.03 | Stskeeps | and then do a kernel build |
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| 17:47.33 | ali1234 | so when i did zypper ar my.repo |
| 17:47.39 | ali1234 | did that add source repos too? |
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| 17:48.05 | ali1234 | i think it did not |
| 17:48.20 | Stskeeps | not sure, check /etc/zypp/repos.d/ ? |
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| 17:48.47 | ali1234 | it only added one repo |
| 17:49.00 | ali1234 | source seems to count as a different repo under rpm |
| 17:49.51 | Stskeeps | uncertain, check the .repo file |
| 17:50.51 | ali1234 | i did |
| 17:50.56 | ali1234 | it only defines one repo |
| 17:51.10 | Stskeeps | usually there's a flag about debuginfo and so on i think |
| 17:51.32 | Stskeeps | but i may be wrong |
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| 17:52.46 | Stskeeps | http://lists.qt.nokia.com/pipermail/qt5-feedback/2011-September/001008.html |
| 17:52.49 | Stskeeps | oh thank god, finally |
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| 18:02.36 | ali1234 | Stskeeps: i put that stuff in /root/.rpmmacros and it made no difference |
| 18:04.35 | CosmoHill | is not looking forward to going from a C2Q 2.4Ghz to a UltraSPARC IIe 550Mhz |
| 18:04.37 | ali1234 | wait, what happened to meego-development-tools |
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| 18:10.40 | ali1234 | retrying |
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| 18:12.34 | newbie007 | does meego use (or can it use) hildon desktop? |
| 18:12.49 | ali1234 | look for cordia |
| 18:12.52 | newbie007 | I want to try to get hildon on an intel32 arch |
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