IRC log for #meego on 20110130

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12:17.05CosmoHillvgrade: ping
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12:27.45CosmoHillnuts
12:27.49lcukCosmoHill, \o
12:27.52CosmoHillhey lcuk
12:27.55alteregohelio`: lcuk
12:28.06alteregoI meat Hello .. not helio` ...
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12:29.27lcukjust say hello to helio` anyway :D
12:30.45alterego:)
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12:32.08CosmoHillwhen is the MeeGo Cambridge meeting?
12:32.17CosmoHillthursday isn't it?
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12:33.15lcukTuesday I thought
12:33.53vgradeCosmoHIll Tuesday, sec while I find alink
12:33.53alteregoWednesday
12:34.00alteregoWait what?
12:34.06vgradeSorry
12:34.29alteregoUrm, now I'm confused.
12:34.34alteregoIt does look like Tuesday
12:34.44alterego(For some reason I had it in my mind the 4th was a Wednesday)
12:35.21vgradehttp://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=16242&postcount=25
12:35.34alteregoWait, it is a wednesday!
12:35.44CosmoHillvgrade: can i PM you something?
12:35.49alteregoStop confusing me and making me look at the wrong bloody month in my calendar :P
12:35.50vgradeyup
12:36.25lcukwait, what?
12:36.30lcuk#Meego Meeting When, Wednesday, February 2 · 7:30pm - 10:30pm, Where, Clowns, Cambridge 54 King Street
12:36.43alteregolcuk: yes, that's correct.
12:36.53lcukI thought Tuesday too
12:36.54vgradesorry guys
12:37.03vgradenot awake yet
12:37.03lcukwas the original one due for a Tuesday?
12:37.05alteregoNo, it's definitely Wednesday
12:37.24alteregolcuk: we were talking about tuesday or wednesday in the beginning and I said I prefered wednesday
12:37.48lcukso folks around Camrbidge on Wednesday night
12:38.37alteregoYess
12:40.18lcukI am vanishing again \o ttyl
12:44.45CosmoHilltalk to you later or /dev/tty1 ?
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13:05.22Teth0ruXhello, one uquetion.. When i close my netbook, meebo goes in the standby status
13:05.44Teth0ruXand when i open it, meebo starts but the screen doen not light
13:05.54Teth0ruXit is black
13:06.02CosmoHillit could be a graphics issue
13:06.41Teth0ruXsure? when i restart the netbook (with a hard power off) anything is right
13:07.00CosmoHilli mean it puts the computer into standby and turns off the graphics
13:07.08CosmoHillwhen it wakes up it doesn't turn the graphics back on
13:07.13Teth0ruXhm
13:07.14CosmoHillthis is what I think happens on my laptop with red hat
13:07.32Teth0ruXhm
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13:11.03Teth0ruXwhan can i do?
13:12.29CosmoHillcheck to see if there is a bug, if there is add to it, if there isn't then create one
13:12.38Teth0ruXOk
13:12.46Teth0ruXor... could it be a bios problem?
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13:13.24CosmoHillthat would be device specific, you could play around with setting and see what happesn
13:14.03Teth0ruXokay :D thanks so much!
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13:16.03CosmoHilldammit, I've spent so long on my dissertation both Windows and Linux have released a new version
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13:20.51RST38hYou spent that time with the purpose.
13:21.06RST38hThey spent it to release the same old crap, just more hideous
13:21.13CosmoHill"we’ve added support for network boot as well as the ability to dual boot with Linux"
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14:47.36azaghalHi. A quick check - does MeeGo support installation to a LVM? (saw a thread mentioning it doesn't, just want to double-check)
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15:50.24timophStskeeps: does meego have project irc cloaks?
15:55.35mikhasandre, why does bugs.meego.com require registered accounts for email addresses I want to add to the CC list of a bug?
15:55.38Stskeepstimoph: i'm GRF, we should start a process/discussion..
15:55.54Stskeepstimoph: on how they're delegated
15:56.02araujothinks that'd be nice
15:56.30Stskeepsand more importantly, how they look :P
15:56.48timoph;)
15:57.27timophsomething like /meego/quality/timoph or /meego/arm/stskeeps
15:57.49Stskeepswell, i belong under RE for god knows what reason
15:58.05timoph:)
15:58.45Stskeepsbut yre
15:58.46Stskeepseah
16:00.25timophdunno how explicitly the project has to show in the cloak. e.g. does quality include qa tools, etc. I'd use high level things and not go into subproject level with those
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16:02.37timophdunno how many different cloaks we would need just for the high level things..
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16:03.53timophhmmh. actually the different possibilites are pretty much listed in meego.gitorious.org
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16:11.56alteregoDo we use KIWI to build images?
16:12.05alterego(The automated images in repo.meego.com)
16:13.00Stskeepsno
16:13.28alteregoSo the automated images are done with mic then?
16:14.20alteregoignores the wiki section on obs wiki
16:14.27Stskeepsboss plus mic, afaik
16:14.36alteregom'kay
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16:16.59Stskeepsat some point these were actually manual, i think
16:17.10alteregoHeh
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16:23.44alteregoI guess from this obs cache, I could in theory generate netbook images and all sorts
16:23.57alteregoAs it's a complete mirror of the meego repo right?
16:24.08alteregoBoth i586 and armv7el
16:24.23Stskeepsright
16:24.31alteregoWicked
16:24.32Stskeepsno non-oss though
16:24.36alteregoOf course
16:24.49Stskeepsand handset/netbook isnt imported by default, just core
16:24.54alteregoOkay
16:24.55Stskeepsbut should be easy to hack..
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16:29.30dm8tbrbtw: I guess netbook UX wouldn't build for ARM?
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16:31.57Alison_ChaikenHere's an analogy suggested to me by Angela Hey, a local tech columnist here in CA.    For all of you gray-haired folks who remember Un*x wars, SysV:BSD::Android:MeeGo.
16:32.40alteregodm8tbr: I'd hope it does build.
16:32.48Alison_ChaikenBSD trumped SysV on technical excellence.    We still have a lot of work to do there.
16:32.56dm8tbralterego: anyone ever tried?
16:33.02alteregodm8tbr: not sure,
16:33.23alteregodm8tbr: is there no netbook in armv7el repo?
16:33.26dm8tbralterego: as it would e.g. make sense for my A101 and another guy in helsinki had exactly this idea for his a101 (that's why I'm asking)
16:33.30dm8tbrlet me check
16:33.40dm8tbrI never did, shame on me.
16:34.13alteregoDoesn't look like it :/
16:34.25dm8tbrhumh, what's 1.1.90? to-be-1.3?
16:34.35alteregoI thought it was 1.2
16:34.43timophyep. to-be-1.2
16:34.50alterego1.3 with be 1.2.90 :P
16:35.03dm8tbrso 1.1.80 is dead?
16:35.27timophAFAIK .8 changes to .9 after feature freeze
16:35.36alteregoIt's all part of the release cycle feature freeze
16:35.37dm8tbraaah
16:35.44dm8tbrthanks for reminding me
16:37.18alteregoThat's strange
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16:37.35alteregoFor some reason I'd have thought the'd build netbook for all supported architectures :)
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16:39.42odin_so is Android technically excellent then ?
16:41.02thiago_homeif you look at their libc, most certainly not
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16:42.16alteregothiago_home: they have their own libc?
16:42.23thiago_homeyes, called bionic
16:42.32thiago_homebuggy a hell
16:42.32odin_if(naive_customer || 0) { for(;;) { send_data_to_google(); sleep(3600); } }
16:42.35alteregoI wonder why they decided to do that ..
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16:43.26Stskeepsdm8tbr: it is more of a GLESv2 vs GL issue (netbook)
16:43.30Stskeepsalterego: NIH
16:44.03Stskeepsdm8tbr: and noone taking care of it in meego, job open :P
16:44.34alteregoHeh
16:44.59Stskeeps(n900 team mostly takes care of handset and core only)
16:45.08Stskeepscore's the tough job
16:46.05odin_Buggy Implementation Of Newly Implemented Code ?  "bionic"
16:46.18javispedroalterego: also, with glibc they would probably put "STALLMAN GOING POSTAL WITH GPLv3" on their risks list, while bionic is of course Google's to decide.
16:46.34javispedroso that they allow for propietary devices.
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16:47.12alteregoHrm
16:47.13alteregoYeah
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16:47.37alteregoI suppose there system is basically, kernel + libc + dalik
16:47.56odin_dalvik
16:48.04alterego:)
16:49.26thiago_homethere are a number of low-level libraries too, like libhardware
16:49.55javispedroand don't forget about openbinder.
16:50.09javispedrokinda liked it
16:52.21alteregoOh, I didn't realise that the package count was per arch :/
16:52.33alteregoSo I've got another 2663 packages to download for arm :D
16:52.48thiago_homesee http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/hardware/libhardware.git;a=blob;f=include/hardware/sensors.h;hb=refs/heads/donut#l80
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17:33.39dm8tbrStskeeps: ah, yes EGL vs GL. why didn't I think of it earlier
17:34.14Stskeepsdm8tbr: -supposedly- clutter can switch to egl mode but..
17:34.29dm8tbr*nod*
17:34.47dm8tbrtakes a note of a possible for fun and visible project :)
17:35.22Stskeepsi think kulve was looking at that too
17:36.42kulveupstream clutter is missing TFP for EGL which is needed for window manager stuff (like Mutter)
17:36.48Stskeepsah
17:37.15Stskeepsi thought maemo had something like that, but that might have been for nokia's extension
17:37.21kulveThere's a patch for a bit older clutter in Linaro and I built stuff with those patches for OMAP3 but didn't have time to test anything yet
17:37.44kulveMaemo did have it yes, but for clutter 0.8 only. Linaro have it 1.2 and the latest is 1.5
17:37.49Stskeeps:nod:
17:38.43dm8tbrkulve: ah, I might be sending someone your way. one of our guys from helsinki is interested in this for his Archos101
17:40.00kulveok
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17:51.58velikulve: \o/
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17:52.14kulveveli: moro :)
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17:52.27velikulve: moi!
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17:58.52lbtJaffa: ping
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18:24.57Jaffalbt: pong; but just about to bath the children...
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18:27.33lbtJaffa: later is fine ... comments about MWN and Maemo
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18:55.08GAN900lbt, should we cast it off? *g*
18:55.48lbt:)
18:56.17lbtI actually mean Apps/Surrounds/OBS and Maemo
18:56.31GAN900And, damnit, it's Sunday again.
18:57.12GAN900Working Sundays really throws off one's sense of weekly progession.
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19:01.12alteregolbt: I set up a localobs today, going to work on a fremantle target
19:01.51lbtalterego: OK - bear in mind that we're significantly down the road on the maemo OBS
19:01.58lbtso do start with that!
19:02.07alterego:)
19:02.17alteregoyou mean the diablo obs?
19:03.00alteregoI'd imagine technically they're almost identical except for toolchain, rootfs and packages
19:03.15lbtI mean fremantle
19:03.21lbtdo you mean diable?
19:03.23lbto
19:04.05lbthttps://build.obs.maemo.org/  (which seems to be down :( )
19:04.10dm8tbrreminds me to rebuild the fosdem2010 app with the 2011 schedule with my obs at work tomorrow
19:04.20dm8tbryes, exactly because that is down ;)
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19:05.27alteregolbt: no I mean fremantle but I know there's a diablo target, are you saying obs.maemo.org can do fremantle?
19:05.53lbtyep ... it successfully builds a big chunk of 'Extras'
19:06.09lbtI'm not aware of a Diablo target ... and I'd like one
19:06.23lbt'cos then we could replace the autobuilder
19:06.44alteregoOh cool, didn't know that. So how can I import that infra into my local obs which can build meego against i586 and armv7el core?
19:07.17alteregolbt: well, there's some wiki page on maemo.org which talks about diablo obs
19:07.18lbtalterego: get an account there when it's back
19:07.25lbtalterego: link ?
19:07.30alteregoAnd it's also mentioned on the suse obs wiki
19:08.00alteregolbt: if you go to the suse obs wiki and go to "users" it's at the bottom of that page iirc
19:08.11alteregoI'm afk at the moment so I can't get it myself.
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19:09.31Stskeepslbt: i (personally) think there's value to meego oss 'app store' allowing to build meego api apps for fremantle..
19:09.40Stskeepsie, my idea about the oss subset
19:10.42Stskeepsie, don't move entire extras to OBS, but add the 'store' software to n900
19:12.27Stskeepsin fact, i'll be provocative and suggest rpm alongside on maemo, pre-seeded with meego api names :)
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19:13.03alteregoHeh
19:13.17JaffaStskeeps: MeeGo API on Maemo 5 is... intriguing. What elements are in the MeeGo API which aren't covered by Qt & Qt Mobility et al?
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19:14.38StskeepsJaffa: http://apidocs.meego.com/1.1/core/html/index.html
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19:18.06thiago_homemeego api = opengles + qt + qt mobility
19:18.11thiago_homeso n900 has technically everything
19:18.23thiago_homebut not the platform API, nor is it compliant
19:20.04dm8tbrso don't call it meego, call it mg ;)
19:21.35timophor stick the hildon stuff on top of meego core
19:21.58thiago_homehildon will not be able to make apps look like meego
19:22.08thiago_homejust like QWidget couldn't
19:22.22timophah. true
19:22.47timophwas thinking about the compliance thing
19:23.19thiago_homemaemo5 is definitely not a meego-compliant device
19:23.27thiago_homehowever, it has the meego api
19:23.36RST38hfurthermore,maemo5 is not a device
19:23.42timoph:)
19:23.47thiago_homeright
19:23.57thiago_homeso let me rephrase: a device running maemo5 is not a meego-compliant device
19:24.36timophyep. but meego core + hildon would be?
19:24.51Stskeepstimoph: hildon desktop, i suppose?
19:24.59timophStskeeps: yes
19:25.07Stskeepstimoph: that one is more complicated :)
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19:35.34Jaffalbt: back
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20:12.22lbtJaffa: hey
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21:10.19Jaffalbt: hey! :-)
21:11.30CosmoHillwatches a hamster roll past
21:11.45lbtJaffa: sry
21:12.26lbtgoing to whistler in Feb/Mar.... looking for a room \o/
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21:15.56lbtso Jaffa... I was just going to suggest that you put something into MWN about the future of Maemo
21:16.05lbtautobuilder
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21:18.01Jaffalbt: Indeed. As noted earlier (and by thp), diablo supports the kicker for a complete OBS replacement.
21:18.48lbtyes, and it may be good to start planning the maemo migration ...
21:18.57lbtI don't even know what that means :)
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21:48.54Matan[M]oh god WP7 ssssuuuxxx
21:49.54Matan[M]Orange Poland did show with testing WP7, god hate WP7, and me too
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22:00.46thiago_homeGod hates WP7?
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22:03.32CosmoHillMatan[M]: why does it sucks?
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22:06.06Matan[M]CosmoHill: this gui, this no multitasking, this not working in poland apps, this backward incompatibility, this bugs, this shit, oh god save the meego before something like this
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22:33.51Matan[M]CosmoHill: *this no backward incompatibility... ;]
22:36.24alteregocringes at 25M being installed into his rootfs
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22:39.39UmeaboyHi!
22:40.02UmeaboyWow! What an amazing experience using Meego 1.1 in a LG X110 Netbook!!!!
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22:47.44UmeaboyI couldn't find a button to Shutdown the computer so I clicked the Power-button & then Shutdown.
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22:48.18thiago_homethat's how you shut down
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22:50.13UmeaboyOkey.
22:50.19Umeaboy25 seconds to boot.
22:50.22UmeaboyNot bad.
22:50.26UmeaboyNot bad at all.
22:50.28thiago_homethat's a lot
22:50.28Umeaboy;)
22:50.34thiago_homeit should boot in 12 seconds or less
22:50.44UmeaboyI haven't updated it until now.
22:50.48thiago_homewell, from GRUB to fully running
22:51.00thiago_homethe time from power on to GRUB isn't something we can influence
22:51.31Umeaboy'cause of the difference from the Atom-CPU?
22:52.00thiago_homemy Atom boots in 12 seconds
22:52.06UmeaboyOkey.
22:52.48UmeaboyDo I start counting from the second I click on the power-button to when I'm in or from when I see a picture?
22:55.09VenemoMatan[M]: are you Matan from TMO?
22:55.16thiago_homefrom the moment you see the boot loader
22:56.03CosmoHillthiago_home: can you compile grub with -O3?
22:56.51thiago_homeno idea
22:57.00thiago_homeI haven't compiled grub since it first came out, in the 90s
22:58.14UmeaboyThe bootloader is the process-list, right?
22:58.25Umeaboythiago_home: ^^
22:58.39UmeaboyProcesses that gets started.
22:58.49alteregooptimizing the bootloader wont make startup times noticably quicker ^.^
22:59.17CosmoHillhttp://black-flag.co.uk/files/lfs/bootchart-20101002-1525.svg
23:01.04UmeaboyThere should be a script to tell how long time it really takes to boot the system.
23:01.17thiago_homethere can't be
23:01.18UmeaboyPerhaps a countdown-clock until it's finished.
23:01.18Venemohmhm
23:01.29thiago_homebecause we're timing from the kernel boot
23:01.31Venemowhat is the status of the policy framework in MeeGo?
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23:01.39CosmoHillyou can't do a count down, what if you end up with negative numbers?
23:01.40UmeaboyRight.
23:02.03UmeaboyThen you'll know that your computer or netbook is broken.
23:02.06Umeaboy;)
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23:04.00CosmoHillyou have POST > boot loader > kernel (this is where bootchartd starts)
23:04.18UmeaboyOkey.
23:04.26UmeaboyUuuuuuuuhm.
23:05.09CosmoHillafter the kernel you have all the boot scripts and stuff
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23:05.41UmeaboyI know that Meego is developing all the time, but I wonder.......... Looking in my home-folder I see several directories that is used as the same purpose.
23:05.53UmeaboyOne named in English & the other in Swedish.
23:05.56UmeaboyHow come?
23:06.07UmeaboyBuilding -> Byggnader.
23:06.10UmeaboyBuildings -> Byggnader.
23:06.35CosmoHillyou have both english and swedish directories for the same stuff
23:06.39UmeaboyI'm talking about duplicates.
23:06.49CosmoHillis one a link to another?
23:07.05UmeaboyI'm checking.
23:07.37UmeaboyNope. Byggnader-directory is empty.
23:07.58UmeaboyCould it be because of the update that I did?
23:08.09CosmoHillit could be that some software is hard coded to use a directory that is in english
23:08.35UmeaboyI'm afraid to delete/remove the Byggnader-directory.
23:08.45UmeaboySo I'll just leave it.
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23:10.42UmeaboyCosmoHill: Someone needs to fix the link in the topic. http://meego.com doesn't open.
23:10.59CosmoHillloaded just fine
23:11.20thiago_homeUmeaboy: yes it does
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23:14.06UmeaboyIn Chromium-browser in Mandriva I get an error.
23:14.57CosmoHillI'm not using chromium, mandriva or even linux, so I can't comment
23:15.08CosmoHill/* well I can but that's not the point */
23:16.23Umeaboythiago_home: It works in Firefox thou.
23:16.39UmeaboyI'll test in Epiphany as well.
23:16.48berndhsisn't it just text that is linkified by the chat client ?
23:17.03UmeaboyIt works fine in Epiphany as well.
23:17.08UmeaboyI'll test in Opera to.
23:17.24thiago_homeit's your internet connection
23:17.25thiago_homethe site is up
23:17.31UmeaboyNope.
23:17.33UmeaboyI told you.
23:17.37UmeaboyIt works in Firefox.
23:17.41thiago_homeok
23:17.42UmeaboyAnd Epiphany.
23:17.45thiago_homeand konqueror
23:18.45Umeaboythiago_home: Lets' talk about my issue in #mandriva
23:18.51UmeaboyLets
23:18.59thiago_homenot really
23:19.04thiago_homenot interested in chromium...
23:19.23UmeaboyOkey. I was hoping you could confirm the error.
23:19.34thiago_homeI can't. No chromium.
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23:20.01alteregoDoes the gps backend in meego have the ability to tether with a bluetooth gps dongle?
23:21.23Venemoalterego: not yet. (unless you port your stuff from Columbus to MeeGo :P)
23:22.09alteregoVenemo: that's what I'm doing, but I would have thought there was already infra in place to handle serial NMEA comms ..
23:22.32alteregoWhich would make my job easier as that stuff should already be in Mobility ...
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23:22.42Venemoalterego: I have no idea, sorry
23:22.51alteregoOtherwise I'm going to have to write my own nmea parser.
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23:34.41alteregoWell, got the main engine and support libs compiled for meego, tomorrow looks like I'll be porting the UI :)
23:34.53alteregoThen hack in support for external GPS
23:35.00alteregoAll set for the demo on Wednesday :x
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23:35.36Umeaboythiago_home: Where do I translate Meego?
23:35.40Umeaboysvn.meego.com ?
23:35.56CosmoHillUmeaboy: I think I saw something on the wiki about localisation
23:36.02thiago_homeI don't remember
23:36.07thiago_homeand MeeGo doesn't use svn
23:36.16UmeaboyOooooh.
23:36.26alteregoAnyhow, bedtime, g'night folks.
23:37.19UmeaboyGood night.
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23:37.36UmeaboyI've applied for the proper mailinglist.
23:38.23Rower85anyone know what the releasename will be on the first MeeGo device?
23:39.56thiago_homewhose first MeeGo device?
23:41.54CosmoHillmine will be called "yay it works"
23:42.08CosmoHillor GoMee
23:42.33CosmoHill(tm)
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23:46.13UmeaboyCosmoHill: GoMee as in GoMeez? ;)
23:46.21UmeaboyNo offence. ;)
23:46.48CosmoHillI'm not sure how that would offend me but I'm gonna look for a way now that you said no offence
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23:50.59UmeaboyCosmoHill: You know which Gomez I mean?
23:51.01Umeaboy;)
23:51.13CosmoHillno
23:51.16UmeaboyGomez Adams.
23:51.22CosmoHillnever heard of him
23:51.23UmeaboyFor the Adams Family.
23:51.26CosmoHilloh
23:51.26UmeaboyFrom
23:53.23thiago_home:-)
23:53.54thiago_homedammit, now I'm singing the Addams Family song
23:54.00CosmoHillah!
23:54.04UmeaboyHehehehe
23:54.08CosmoHillI have Dad's Army in my head :/
23:54.09UmeaboyI loved Lurch.
23:54.52UmeaboyHe's so alike Larry Kubiac (Sorry for the spelling of the last name).
23:55.02UmeaboyLarry from Parker Lewis.
23:55.04Umeaboy;)
23:55.08UmeaboyBig guy.
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