| 00:04.35 | untakenstupidnic | sicelo? |
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| 03:47.54 | drathir_tor | untakenstupidnic: personally used alarm staff in past but if stil works such "trick" no idea... |
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| 08:11.20 | bencoh | untakenstupidnic: if you really want to stick with fremantle then your best bet is probably a chroot |
| 08:11.55 | bencoh | and/or building everything yourself to an alternate path and playing with LD_LIBRARY_PATH/LD_PRELOAD/-Wl,-rpath |
| 08:13.27 | bencoh | you could even build a full toolchain to be installed in /alt (or whatever), have your own ld.so there that will only look in /alt, and build all your stuff against it |
| 08:46.26 | untakenstupidnic | the reason i want to stick with freemantle is that leste seems to drain battery faster than freemantle+power kernel, and it doesn't seem to be very good in battery management. |
| 08:47.08 | untakenstupidnic | bencoh: does chrooting to the leste SD cart work? i couldn't figure out how to mount it yesterday |
| 08:47.20 | bencoh | I suppose it would work |
| 08:47.29 | bencoh | I don't see any reason for it not to work |
| 08:47.57 | bencoh | Well, you might have a hard time with some graphic stuff, but it should work overall |
| 08:48.14 | bencoh | (I don't know what will happen with egl stuff, but it might work as well) |
| 08:48.36 | bencoh | Same with dbus-dependant stuff, you might need to work a bit |
| 08:49.44 | Wizzup | untakenstupidnic: leste only draws more power because we haven't put more effort into that |
| 08:49.56 | Wizzup | https://twitter.com/maemoleste/status/1226265997981646849 |
| 08:50.46 | Wizzup | It'll improve, but currently it's not great, but we know we can make it better. |
| 08:53.51 | bencoh | Wizzup: I wouldn't call 20mA "not great", to be honest |
| 08:54.09 | bencoh | admittedly it draws only half of it in idle when running maemo5, but still |
| 08:54.25 | bencoh | it's quite a nice feat :) |
| 08:56.06 | untakenstupidnic | Wizzup: nice |
| 08:56.06 | Wizzup | bencoh: point is mostly that what is shown on the photo there is not what leste currently draws when you flash an iamge |
| 08:56.10 | Wizzup | s/iamge/image/ |
| 08:56.53 | bencoh | ah |
| 08:57.22 | bencoh | I see :) |
| 08:58.12 | Wizzup | what needs to happen to build latest mainline, see that it still works with minimal modules loaded and off mode enabled, and then start loading modules and see what pm blockers are |
| 08:58.20 | Wizzup | and *then* look at powervr and see how that behaves with off mode |
| 08:59.05 | Maxdamantus | 20:47:29 < bencoh> I don't see any reason for it not to work |
| 08:59.22 | Maxdamantus | What about glibc/kernel compatibility? |
| 08:59.26 | bencoh | oh, right |
| 08:59.30 | bencoh | you'd need to patch the libc |
| 08:59.32 | bencoh | mybad |
| 08:59.37 | bencoh | I forgot about that one |
| 08:59.53 | Maxdamantus | That's the main annoyance for me. |
| 09:00.04 | Maxdamantus | Should probably get around to trying to patch libc sometime. |
| 09:00.23 | Maxdamantus | still just uses a wheezy chroot. |
| 09:00.41 | bencoh | there was a really simple patch around |
| 09:01.17 | bencoh | at least back when they dropped support |
| 09:01.52 | untakenstupidnic | Wizzup: if i were you, i would focus primarily on maemo hardware along with some simple devices such as RPI, because there are several "mobile linux"es but not so many "maemo revival"s |
| 09:03.23 | bencoh | main targets are n900 and droid4 (because it's like a more powerful n900 replacement) anyway |
| 09:03.34 | bencoh | (you could add the pinephone as of late, but...) |
| 09:03.39 | untakenstupidnic | for myself, when i chose n900 over finding an android phone that could run lineageOS, i was thinking that maemo is still there and update; so i could do all the linux stuff on a device that fully supported |
| 09:04.25 | Wizzup | untakenstupidnic: right, the omap devices (n900, droid4) have the 'prime' support |
| 09:04.42 | Wizzup | but the n900 powervr kernel port we maintain ourselves (or opposed to others also working on it) |
| 09:05.02 | Wizzup | and it's a pain to move it over, and we haven't for a few releases in the hopes that we could jump on the newer driver |
| 09:05.19 | untakenstupidnic | bencoh: a droid4 port seems to be not worth much more than a proof-of-concept |
| 09:05.27 | Wizzup | but that makes this pm debugging harder, since I don't want to test it only on 5.1 only to find that some regressions were fixed on 5.7x |
| 09:05.32 | Wizzup | untakenstupidnic: uh what :D |
| 09:05.37 | Wizzup | what makes you say that |
| 09:05.45 | bencoh | untakenstupidnic: hmm, I'd say it's more than a PoC these days |
| 09:05.55 | bencoh | admittedly you still can't use it as a phone |
| 09:06.08 | bencoh | but err, leste is missing a phone UI anyway |
| 09:06.14 | bencoh | so that goes for n900 as well |
| 09:06.14 | untakenstupidnic | well, somebody in #maemo-leste said they are no widespread |
| 09:06.23 | bencoh | widespread, as in ? |
| 09:06.34 | untakenstupidnic | findable, sold much. |
| 09:06.42 | bencoh | you can buy droid4 from ebay |
| 09:07.01 | bencoh | it might be a bit more expensive than a few years ago, but still |
| 09:07.03 | sicelo | (uvos) :-) |
| 09:07.04 | untakenstupidnic | no ebay here, not feasible in many places. |
| 09:07.25 | untakenstupidnic | sicelo: :) |
| 09:08.10 | sicelo | anyway, droid 4 sort of has better support now tbh - i have calls (and very silly ui for that) |
| 09:09.47 | bencoh | sicelo: unicsy? |
| 09:09.49 | sicelo | n900 calls are hard (the voice part), and bt isn't working (in fact i must write the maintainers about it) |
| 09:09.59 | bencoh | (or whatever the spelling for pavel's UI is) |
| 09:10.25 | untakenstupidnic | i mean the support that goes to non-'prime' platforms, still costs time and doesn't bring much advantage to the community |
| 09:10.47 | sicelo | bencoh: i made my own python thing, (ab)using hildon dialog. but yes, unicsy should do as well |
| 09:10.48 | untakenstupidnic | you could have the maemo hildon on other distros i think |
| 09:11.33 | bencoh | ? |
| 09:15.27 | untakenstupidnic | instead, trying to for example bringing new possibilities to the Nseries tablet does. the 'linux for phones' people don't particularly care about maemo, so maemo people should care for it and leave the general task of 'making good linux for phones' to other projects having more community. |
| 09:16.03 | untakenstupidnic | and they in turn would benefit from the improved support for n900 you have provided |
| 09:16.32 | sicelo | bencoh: https://pasteboard.co/JiXvfkA.jpg |
| 09:16.51 | bencoh | sicelo: looks good enough :D |
| 09:17.04 | untakenstupidnic | but now much time in various projects is spent on achieving one same thing and goes to waste |
| 09:17.17 | bencoh | sicelo: does "ignore" closes the window and let you work? :] |
| 09:17.21 | bencoh | -s |
| 09:17.45 | sicelo | untakenstupidnic: i think you're mistaken |
| 09:18.05 | sicelo | bencoh: yes :-) |
| 09:18.36 | sicelo | call is not answered nor rejected |
| 09:19.03 | bencoh | and you don't have to wait for the caller to give up ... awesome :> |
| 09:22.36 | Wizzup | sicelo: cool, how is the audio? does it work with speakerphone only? |
| 09:22.44 | Wizzup | and does it vibrate the device? |
| 09:22.56 | untakenstupidnic | bencoh: how could i patch glibc? |
| 09:23.56 | sicelo | Yes @ speakerphone. i haven't had success with normal speaker or earphones ... then again, i haven't done a lot of testing either .. life gets in the way :-) |
| 09:24.15 | bencoh | Assuming you want a debian/devuan chroot, you'd need to download the source package and build it for arm using dpkg-buildpackage |
| 09:24.35 | sicelo | vibration - no. i don't typically use vibration ever, even on other phones |
| 09:24.48 | bencoh | (after patching it accordlingly, but I don't have a patch available right off the bat) |
| 09:24.52 | Wizzup | sicelo: ok, I'm in interesting in trying to use this. Adding vibration I think would be sweet. It's only two dbus calls away |
| 09:25.00 | Wizzup | (start and stop pattern) |
| 09:25.14 | Wizzup | I basically only use vibration |
| 09:25.44 | sicelo | yes should be easy. even this is dbus+python2 (for hildon module) |
| 09:25.50 | bencoh | same (vibration) |
| 09:25.57 | bencoh | and yeah, it's simple and well documented on wiki |
| 09:27.53 | Wizzup | and works now on leste ;) |
| 09:34.41 | Wizzup | sicelo: there is also https://github.com/DigitalHERMES/rhizo-dialer |
| 09:34.49 | Wizzup | remind me, do you use telepathy or ofono |
| 09:36.52 | sicelo | mine's ofono. i wanted to look at telepathy, but then time became an issue. |
| 09:37.10 | sicelo | it's still on my to do however |
| 09:39.24 | Wizzup | I've been deciphering all the rtcom stuff and how calls and smses get logged in fremantle, so that we can just open the same fremantle db / format and log in the same way, and that also includes the telepathy setup, but it's complicated |
| 09:39.35 | Wizzup | I hope to learn more during my holiday |
| 09:43.10 | bencoh | Wizzup: didn't you tell me at some point that part of it was standard / usable by empathy |
| 09:43.17 | bencoh | or did I miss something? |
| 09:43.50 | Wizzup | yes, it is, but some of the maemo specific stuff is not |
| 09:44.12 | Wizzup | and in general TP is kind of simple, but there aren't a lot of 'examples' |
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| 13:59.21 | bionicpup64_2990 | how could i disable the TV output and have normal sound played from the headphone in freemantle? |
| 13:59.59 | sixwheeledbeast | It is controlled automatically |
| 14:00.41 | untakenstupidnic | well it plays a weird buzz that changes whenever something on display changes |
| 14:01.13 | sixwheeledbeast | likely some OMTP vs AHJ compatibility issue |
| 14:01.41 | KotCzarny | im 100% sure we already talked about this |
| 14:01.42 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 14:01.51 | sixwheeledbeast | hmm |
| 14:01.57 | untakenstupidnic | how could i solve that? there was unicys_demo on leste |
| 14:02.21 | sixwheeledbeast | a crossover adaptor or normal headphones without a mic |
| 14:03.26 | untakenstupidnic | KotCzarny: yes, but i thought there needs to be some special headphone for it to work back then, but now i know it could work by software alone |
| 14:03.50 | KotCzarny | it can be home made from cheap parts available everywhere |
| 14:03.52 | KotCzarny | really |
| 14:04.29 | bencoh | errr, wait, what are you connecting to your phone? |
| 14:04.44 | bencoh | a ttrs jack? |
| 14:04.44 | KotCzarny | headphones |
| 14:04.48 | KotCzarny | samsung headphones |
| 14:04.53 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 14:05.09 | bencoh | then omtp vs whatever as six.wheeledbeast said, yeah |
| 14:05.24 | bencoh | and you can buy an adaptor |
| 14:05.27 | bencoh | (no need to craft it) |
| 14:05.33 | untakenstupidnic | not samsung but the things you find everywhere |
| 14:07.00 | bencoh | yeah, I had the same issue with sennheiser |
| 14:07.23 | bencoh | (I didn't bother finding a solution though, I had it replaced for another product) |
| 14:07.30 | untakenstupidnic | The problem is walking and searching long enough to find a store that is closed due to recession and covid-19 AND has an idea what is either OMTP or AHJ or has nokia headphones |
| 14:07.40 | KotCzarny | buy online? |
| 14:07.40 | untakenstupidnic | is not closed* |
| 14:08.03 | bencoh | you should buy the adapter online, yeah |
| 14:08.04 | KotCzarny | or just cannibalize some old electronics to get parts |
| 14:08.17 | bencoh | it will just be painful otherwise |
| 14:10.16 | untakenstupidnic | KotCzarny: what online? i searched 'OMTP to AHJ adapter' in my language and nothing comes |
| 14:10.59 | KotCzarny | what language is that? |
| 14:11.43 | untakenstupidnic | persian |
| 14:12.10 | KotCzarny | ho hum |
| 14:12.58 | untakenstupidnic | isn't there unicys_demo for freemantle? |
| 14:13.05 | KotCzarny | do you have ANY electronics parts stores? |
| 14:14.11 | untakenstupidnic | Yes, but it potentially means walking kilometers for nothing. |
| 14:15.09 | KotCzarny | then in my opinion you can make the adapter yourself |
| 14:15.51 | KotCzarny | its just a simple swap |
| 14:16.04 | untakenstupidnic | yes, but an alsa config file is much easier |
| 14:16.52 | KotCzarny | is it alsa configurable? |
| 14:17.56 | untakenstupidnic | i say it totally worked in leste. |
| 14:19.18 | sixwheeledbeast | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:21.32 | bencoh | sixwheeledbeast: if he just want to use the headphones, then it might somehow work by disabling the tv-out thing |
| 14:21.34 | sixwheeledbeast | it's possible leste didn't detect it as a "headset" for whatever reason. |
| 14:21.39 | bencoh | or that, yeah |
| 14:22.47 | untakenstupidnic | now we get to the first question: |
| 14:22.55 | untakenstupidnic | how could i disable the TV output and have normal sound played from the headphone in freemantle? |
| 14:23.08 | sixwheeledbeast | well there is some sys/ file that sets the av mode type with numbers from 1-4 you could try forcing it and making it read only 444. |
| 14:23.21 | bencoh | I suspect one of the male contacts is physically connected to two internal contacts |
| 14:24.07 | bencoh | (maybe |
| 14:24.14 | sixwheeledbeast | If the TRRS is not to spec then it could be confused. |
| 14:25.07 | sixwheeledbeast | it will not be in AV mode without detecting a 75ohm input on the video line AFAIK. it normally defaults to headphones |
| 14:26.40 | bencoh | I had a similar experience with a sennheiser (mic+headphones) set, I suppose the TRRS was following the spec |
| 14:26.47 | bencoh | I don't remember how it was detected though |
| 14:27.14 | bencoh | (there was some odd noise coming out if the headphones) |
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| 14:37.51 | sicelo | untakenstupidnic: software won't 'fix' the headphone issue. unicsy_demo is totally unnecessary on Fremantle |
| 14:38.51 | untakenstupidnic | i don't what you mean by fixing. i could hear music from it in leste, and i want to do that this side. |
| 14:39.50 | sicelo | maybe show us a picture of your headphone's jack |
| 14:47.54 | untakenstupidnic | a normal jack that would play sound in leste... but ok |
| 14:49.38 | untakenstupidnic | sicelo: like this https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.Cbnj1sU-_rEnE5QfDfVQkgHaF7%26pid%3DApi&f=1 |
| 14:51.55 | untakenstupidnic | but whatever the problem is it, or whether you call it a fix or not, i want to have the thing that happened in leste using alsactl happen. idk why you insist that is a hardware problem when some software has done that. |
| 14:57.14 | KotCzarny | it can probably be treated by both ways |
| 14:58.37 | untakenstupidnic | now i would be thankful if anyone has ideas on my first question. |
| 14:58.59 | bencoh | Well if anything, I'd start by checking out what is actually missing in leste regarding the jack connector |
| 14:59.17 | bencoh | it's probably something that is autodetected on fremantle and still missing on leste |
| 14:59.43 | bencoh | (be it jack detection, tv-out, automatic headphone/mic switch, whatever) |
| 14:59.57 | untakenstupidnic | well i take that for granted. i asked how to disable tv-output. |
| 15:00.36 | KotCzarny | what was the wiki page on cmdline tricks for n900? |
| 15:00.47 | KotCzarny | something something command control |
| 15:02.06 | KotCzarny | ~power |
| 15:02.06 | infobot | rumour has it, power is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption |
| 15:02.11 | KotCzarny | hmm. |
| 15:02.14 | KotCzarny | ~cmdline |
| 15:02.21 | KotCzarny | ~hacks |
| 15:02.21 | sicelo | phone control :) |
| 15:02.26 | KotCzarny | ~phoencontrol |
| 15:02.30 | KotCzarny | ~phonecontrol |
| 15:02.30 | infobot | from memory, phonecontrol is http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control |
| 15:05.05 | sixwheeledbeast | /sys/devices/platform/nokia-av/autodetect |
| 15:05.29 | KotCzarny | swb: maybe you can add it to the above page? assuming its controllable, not just status |
| 15:06.24 | KotCzarny | bugs.maemo.org uses an invalid security certificate |
| 15:06.27 | KotCzarny | The certificate expired on July 12, 2020, 12:18 PM. The current time is July 23, 2020, 5:06 PM. |
| 15:06.41 | KotCzarny | who is cert master of maemo? |
| 15:06.51 | sixwheeledbeast | I have not idea if it's controllable it's a hacky suggestion I have a similar read only hack for other files like the camera button etc |
| 15:06.59 | sixwheeledbeast | ~beasttweaks |
| 15:06.59 | infobot | from memory, beasttweaks is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Sixwheeledbeast/Scripts |
| 15:07.38 | KotCzarny | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6360 |
| 15:09.09 | sixwheeledbeast | bmo has cert issues? |
| 15:09.13 | sicelo | fwiw, tv out works in Leste. maybe, just maybe, the op may have to force fremantle to mute the mic (at least as far as i understand the ahj vs. omtp thing ... only difference is location of mic vs. ground) |
| 15:09.26 | sixwheeledbeast | expired on the 12th |
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| 15:15.32 | KotCzarny | https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2016-12-23.log.html |
| 15:16.27 | sicelo | also, in Fremantle, my incompatible Samsung earphones are working, and I can listen to music, but there's something odd about it :) |
| 15:16.54 | KotCzarny | https://github.com/pali/linux-n900/blob/v2.6.28-nokia/drivers/misc/nokia-av.c#L280 |
| 15:17.00 | KotCzarny | there is a source |
| 15:17.08 | KotCzarny | so i guess it can be hacked around |
| 15:17.27 | sicelo | i still don't believe it can :) |
| 15:17.41 | sicelo | ECI is just handling the buttons |
| 15:18.56 | sicelo | untakenstupidnic: do you need to use the mic? or you just have it because the earphones have it? if you don't need to use it (i am not convinced it'll work with either Leste or Fremantle anyway), just tape it down in 'depressed' position |
| 15:19.37 | untakenstupidnic | no. i doubt if it has any mics on it at all. |
| 15:21.08 | sicelo | music is proper quality on my samsung earphone if i depress the mic (answer/hangup) button (which makes sense, of course since it's shorting the mic, and giving us proper ground) |
| 15:21.38 | sicelo | if there's no mic, then why have 4 contacts? |
| 15:23.46 | untakenstupidnic | plus, there is only one pushbutton on the whole thing with nothing indicating what is it for. |
| 15:24.18 | untakenstupidnic | sicelo: crappy hardware. perhaps they didn't have more descriptive jacks |
| 15:25.02 | sicelo | that's the button for answer/hangup == mic. press it while playing music on your N900 with Fremantle - it should play with better quality for you as well, if i'm understanding this right |
| 15:39.52 | untakenstupidnic | sicelo:thanks, it works. |
| 15:50.07 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:51.10 | bencoh | :) |
| 15:51.27 | bencoh | ~admins |
| 15:51.32 | bencoh | ~techhadmin |
| 15:51.37 | bencoh | err, what was it again |
| 15:51.39 | sicelo | ~techstaff |
| 15:51.39 | infobot | methinks techstaff is techstaff(AT)maemo.org - the folks that keep your maemo infra running. Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/ |
| 15:51.43 | bencoh | ah, thanks |
| 15:52.17 | bencoh | KotCzarny: I guess it should go to techstaff@ then |
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| 18:46.26 | drathir_tor | sicelo: if god remember there are switch plugs trrs ts/trs ? |
| 18:50.44 | sicelo | yes, there are. the OP can't find those things however |
| 18:59.46 | drathir_tor | sicelo: oh got it... still the most crazy is them dont clearly state type in spec of device... |
| 18:59.59 | sicelo | who's "them"? |
| 19:00.46 | sixwheeledbeast | Everything has switched to AHJ now thanks to apple... :sigh: |
| 19:01.04 | drathir_tor | sicelo: manufacters/producers who create datasheet for devices... |
| 19:01.13 | sicelo | lol |
| 19:01.43 | sicelo | drathir_tor: when N900 was released, nearly everyone used the same standard, so there was no need to specify it |
| 19:01.51 | sixwheeledbeast | Having the hot of the microphone on the braid of the cable sure makes sense from an audio quality POV :rolleyes: |
| 19:02.20 | sicelo | later, everyone used Apple's standard as swb mentions .. so again no need to specify since everything is that standard :) |
| 19:03.29 | drathir_tor | sicelo: yea in past no problem biggest worry mic/non moc which in most cases work just fine... now is pure madness and guess with type used... |
| 19:03.54 | drathir_tor | moc/mic* |
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| 19:07.39 | sixwheeledbeast | even things like modmics use the AHJ now. |
| 19:07.47 | sixwheeledbeast | PS4 controller |
| 19:08.21 | sixwheeledbeast | You'd never have known there was a logical open standard |
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| 19:17.31 | drathir_tor | and You end with that better headphones and 50/50 chance causing metalic sound... |
| 19:18.30 | drathir_tor | sixwheeledbeast: yea common thing would be the best... |
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| 20:14.34 | *** join/#maemo Vajb (~Vajb@2001:999:82:6ff3:d029:d21a:9a8:6ace) |
| 21:38.01 | sixwheeledbeast | well that depends if it's common but poorly designed |
| 23:01.11 | *** join/#maemo drathir_tor (~drathir@gateway/tor-sasl/drathir) |
| 23:24.01 | *** join/#maemo drathir_tor (~drathir@gateway/tor-sasl/drathir) |
