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| 16:04.01 | gillb | hello |
| 16:04.14 | gillb | i am interested in what shaders can run on maemo |
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| 18:10.32 | gillb | so now it's 10 years after the n900 |
| 18:10.44 | gillb | any of you have thoughts on why it didn't become successful? |
| 18:17.20 | *** join/#maemo gillb (~gillb@165.231.178.21) |
| 18:20.54 | xmn | price, apps, wrong timing and price. Done |
| 18:26.16 | gillb | 700 was about right for the best communicator at the time |
| 18:26.47 | gillb | the sad conclusion is that market success is not predominantly based on building a 'better mousetrap' |
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| 19:12.22 | xmn | nope |
| 19:13.06 | xmn | though nokia was too arrogant back in those days. |
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| 19:13.36 | xmn | Also if they had n9 earlier to fight the iphone then it might be a different story |
| 19:36.27 | gillb | xmn: n900 could do more than iphone upon release |
| 19:36.36 | gillb | other factors dominated, not capabilities |
| 19:36.41 | gillb | politics, access |
| 19:37.24 | gillb | but apple was smarter in many ways about controlling access to the platform |
| 19:37.38 | gillb | "it has to be easy and adhering to this UI model" |
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| 20:36.36 | xmn | gillb .. heh I know I still use mine ;P |
| 20:36.50 | gillb | yey xmn |
| 20:37.01 | gillb | anybody good with fixing usb connectors in europe? |
| 20:37.07 | gillb | i saw a thread about it |
| 20:37.20 | gillb | i tried some smt soldering with heat gun and i am very bad at this |
| 20:37.49 | xmn | but nokia still had an opportunity to hit back at apple before they got a ton of market share. the n9 had the best review of an OS. It was ranked up there with iOS and webOS |
| 20:38.21 | gillb | mhm |
| 20:38.27 | xmn | the usb is not as hard as an smt |
| 20:38.28 | gillb | this stuff got me researching economics |
| 20:38.34 | gillb | and path dependence of markets |
| 20:38.52 | xmn | it's not super hard. Just depends on how messed up it is |
| 20:38.53 | KotCzarny | i strongly suspect nokia failed, because there was a bigger plan to make nokia fail |
| 20:39.06 | KotCzarny | and make them sell cheap |
| 20:39.38 | xmn | KotCzarny yes, but this was after the n900 had been on the market for a bit. |
| 20:39.47 | gillb | i have learned about other things, and it is possible in this world that companies like nokia can be attacked by a mix of state and nonstate actors |
| 20:40.01 | KotCzarny | nah, i suspect the plan was put in motion many years earlier |
| 20:40.03 | xmn | remember nokia had what 6 vers of there OS before it was Microsofted |
| 20:40.25 | KotCzarny | yeah, but maemo was always sideproject for nerds |
| 20:40.34 | xmn | yup |
| 20:40.43 | xmn | until iOS came out |
| 20:40.56 | gillb | remember the maemo guy lcuk? |
| 20:41.10 | gillb | he pioneered swipe to use program interface for handhelds |
| 20:41.15 | gillb | and tried to popularize it |
| 20:41.27 | xmn | but that's my point. They had everything they needed. But were too big head to think anyone would want something else. |
| 20:48.18 | Maxdamantus | I don't think I would've heard about N900 if I weren't already into Linux-related things. |
| 20:48.39 | Maxdamantus | Apple was already doing pretty well at marketing their products everywhere. |
| 20:48.40 | KotCzarny | true |
| 20:48.56 | KotCzarny | i got addicted with n800 |
| 20:49.02 | xmn | well it was in a lot of tech review for a while. But mostly as a nerd phone |
| 20:49.12 | KotCzarny | and was very happy when they declared linux phone |
| 20:49.24 | Maxdamantus | Success in technology often doesn't have much to do with your ability to make good technology, but your ability to market it. |
| 20:50.07 | xmn | I came from a newton (burned by S. Job for killing it), then zaurus 5500 ... which showed me linux can work. Then almost n810 ... but straight to n900 |
| 20:50.29 | xmn | Maxdamantus, I would say a bit of both |
| 20:50.58 | xmn | if you have great tech it will find a way, but not if it's not open standard. |
| 20:51.03 | sunshavi | was nice when n800 appeared on the 4 fantastics movie or was n700 |
| 20:51.07 | KotCzarny | well, m$ tried to do windowsphone, but failed too |
| 20:51.17 | KotCzarny | so its a matter of a bit of luck too |
| 20:51.27 | KotCzarny | hitting the right vibe most |
| 20:51.42 | sunshavi | Bill Gates said. It was a problem with the goverment and anti-trust rules |
| 20:51.45 | xmn | by the time MS tried to push Wphones it was too late really |
| 20:52.13 | KotCzarny | so its not having tech or marketing solely |
| 20:52.17 | xmn | at the point it was iOS, android and Black Berry still |
| 20:52.21 | sunshavi | BG said. They were almost ready with windowsphone for the motorolla droid4 |
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| 20:53.03 | sicelo | who or what's BG? |
| 20:53.09 | xmn | window phone had some interesting aspects to it, but it was sadly attached to windows ... lol |
| 20:53.10 | sunshavi | Bill Gates |
| 20:53.20 | sicelo | ah |
| 20:53.52 | sunshavi | yes. BG said before motorolla droid4. It was space 4 another player. And android got that place |
| 20:53.52 | KotCzarny | anyway, fail of n900/maemo was mostly bad management at nokia |
| 20:54.15 | xmn | ^ |
| 20:54.16 | sicelo | interesting sunshavi. any links for that? |
| 20:54.19 | xmn | very tru |
| 20:54.27 | sunshavi | let me look for it |
| 20:57.50 | sunshavi | https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/6/20952370/bill-gates-windows-mobile-android-competition-comments-microsoft-antitrust |
| 20:59.32 | sicelo | thanks. will look at that shortly :) |
| 21:03.55 | sunshavi | kotczarny: neon900 and pinephone hw could be a reality? |
| 21:04.35 | sicelo | neo900 won't |
| 21:05.07 | sunshavi | has something on neon900 could be used on leste? |
| 21:05.29 | sunshavi | i think the sw side of course |
| 21:05.49 | sicelo | and pinephone seems to be going mostly as planned, so it's very probable |
| 21:06.39 | sicelo | sunshavi: there was no SW component as far as Neo900 was concerned. it was going to run Maemo Fremantle, and by extension, Leste should have run on it |
| 21:06.41 | sunshavi | great. That could be a great shot for having a linux phone and leave my feature-phone at home |
| 21:07.55 | sunshavi | thanks sicelo. btw are you using cututube on n900? |
| 21:08.16 | sunshavi | s/cututube/cutetube/ |
| 21:08.46 | sicelo | very rarely. i don't watch too many youtube videos :) |
| 21:09.14 | xmn | I stopped trying to use youtube on n900 :( |
| 21:09.44 | sunshavi | i follow a couple of podcast. Which i watch on my son ipod touch and I want not to use it |
| 21:10.27 | sicelo | does cutetube not work again? |
| 21:10.28 | sunshavi | s/podcast/video podcast/ |
| 21:11.23 | sunshavi | i have not got it working. But I just was wondering if any of you guys are using it. I think maxdamantus was using it |
| 21:12.00 | xmn | sicelo I don't know. It just became too much work to keep track of, so I just don't try. I think some may have foiund a way to make it work again ... just not sure. |
| 21:12.01 | sicelo | even after the recent work by halftux (and fmg?)? |
| 21:12.48 | sicelo | sunshavi: ^ |
| 21:13.33 | sunshavi | yes even after that video does not open. But at least it searches the videos |
| 21:13.59 | Maxdamantus | I don't use it. When I'm on holiday I often use youtube-dl on my N900 to download audio from youtube though. |
| 21:14.28 | sicelo | what version of youtube-dl :) |
| 21:14.30 | Maxdamantus | I think I mentioned a few months ago that something like cutetube should really be using youtube-dl to ensure continued operation. |
| 21:14.40 | Maxdamantus | Basically latest from git. |
| 21:15.04 | sicelo | runs as is on N900? i htink i once tried and had issues |
| 21:15.04 | Maxdamantus | If it stops working, I'll just `git fetch && git checkout remotes/origin/master` and it should work again. |
| 21:15.14 | sicelo | wow, should try again |
| 21:15.15 | Maxdamantus | I run it in a debian chroot. |
| 21:15.24 | sicelo | ah, makes sense then |
| 21:15.42 | xmn | if I could search with thumbnail and then download ... that could be work installing again. But probably still not worth it. usually friends with much faster phones with bigger screen can player the video before I even open cutetube ... lol |
| 21:21.03 | sunshavi | xmn: actually i say this "a phone that does not run emacs is not an smartphone" |
| 21:21.26 | xmn | lol |
| 21:27.19 | gillb | hello sunshavi do you have droid 4 |
| 21:27.39 | gillb | it is my favorite keyboard phone ever |
| 21:27.42 | sunshavi | i used to have it. it broken |
| 21:27.47 | gillb | :( |
| 21:27.50 | gillb | i have parts |
| 21:28.02 | sunshavi | the kbd on droid 4 is not as good as the one on the n900 |
| 21:28.18 | gillb | ok sunshavi that was a funny joke |
| 21:29.15 | Wizzup | leste will run on the pinephone |
| 21:29.53 | sunshavi | it is not a joke i am very serious about it. Have You tried coding on droid4? |
| 21:29.56 | xmn | I'm hoping for leste to run on a future smaller fx pro2 type device :D |
| 21:31.03 | gillb | sunshavi: you should program with a one-button keyboard |
| 21:31.11 | gillb | with timing, you can time each byte with clicks |
| 21:34.05 | sunshavi | actually i would like a bt one hand kbd but those are very expensive for my tastes |
| 21:37.04 | sunshavi | on droid4 kbd i need to press several times a key for getting it to work that turns me imprecise. n900 kbd does not have that issue |
| 22:06.16 | gillb | sunshavi: oh that would be bad yes |
| 22:06.30 | gillb | my droid4 keyboards respond correctly to presses |
| 22:06.42 | gillb | and the button travel is way better than n900 |
| 22:06.45 | gillb | and the spacing |
| 22:06.49 | gillb | and the TWO more rows |
| 22:11.38 | sicelo | i do experience the problem sunshavi is mentioning with droid 4 keyboard, but only on the '0' key |
| 22:24.11 | gillb | hrmph |
| 22:24.27 | gillb | sicelo: what are chances of getting some gpu acceleration on droid 4? |
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| 22:41.23 | Maxdamantus | I've found the keyboards on my N900s feel fairly different to each other. |
| 22:42.35 | Maxdamantus | also, the keys on my current N900 have been falling off recently. |
| 22:42.50 | Maxdamantus | has been sticking them back on with silicone. |
| 22:43.07 | sicelo | gillb: gpu acceleration? if you mean on linux mainline kernel, Wizzup will know better, but it's promising |
| 22:43.19 | sicelo | Maxdamantus: does the silicone hold well? |
| 22:43.43 | gillb | i will start crying here if we can do accelerated scaling and some video on droid 4 |
| 22:44.02 | Maxdamantus | sicelo: seems to hold reasonably well, though the first one only came off a couple of weeks ago, so hasn't had a huge amount of testing time. |
| 22:44.49 | Maxdamantus | Have to be careful with the amount though: on the first two keys, I used a bit too much silicone, so they feel quite stiff when you press them. |
| 22:46.07 | Maxdamantus | The silicone I'm using is actually just bathroom sealant. |
| 22:46.29 | Wizzup | sicelo: gillb http://lists.letux.org/pipermail/openpvrsgx-devgroup/ |
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| 23:50.14 | xmn | hey since I have some of you folks here. does talk.maemo.org rss feed still work for you in the built-in osso-rss reader? I'm using http://talk.maemo.org/external.php?type=RSS |
| 23:50.45 | xmn | It just stopped work one day maybe the middle of this year |