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| 09:36.44 | brolin_empey | Haha, why use the MySQL monitor program when you can simply grep the directory containing the database and use vim to search the file containing the table in the database? |
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| 12:09.13 | CatButts | speaking of battery |
| 12:09.35 | CatButts | is it normal for phone to heat up significantly with CPU usage? |
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| 12:23.09 | bencoh | I'd say it's not really unexpected :) |
| 12:23.44 | bencoh | mine does heat up when tethering (usb) for a significant amount of time |
| 12:23.50 | bencoh | (for instance) |
| 12:24.32 | bencoh | (as in, last time I checked, battery reached 46C) |
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| 16:48.15 | sixwheeledbeast | Would depend on the load and condition of the battery |
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| 18:34.15 | Maxdamantus | 01:09:35 < CatButts> is it normal for phone to heat up significantly with CPU usage? |
| 18:34.35 | Maxdamantus | You always expect the heat output to be equal to power consumption. |
| 18:35.02 | Maxdamantus | If the phone is using 5 W of power, that means it's producing 5 W of heat. |
| 18:35.05 | KotCzarny | what about energy changed into other energy than thermal? |
| 18:35.45 | Maxdamantus | like what? |
| 18:35.57 | CatButts | I have no idea how to quantify wattage to physical heat sensation |
| 18:35.59 | KotCzarny | you know, thermal is tiny part of em spectrum |
| 18:36.12 | Maxdamantus | thermal is basically everything that a phone outputs. |
| 18:36.22 | KotCzarny | light? wireless? |
| 18:36.25 | CatButts | maybe I need a lookup table |
| 18:36.29 | CatButts | ha ha |
| 18:36.31 | KotCzarny | it's outside thermal range |
| 18:37.13 | Maxdamantus | It turns into heat eventually. |
| 18:37.22 | KotCzarny | nope. |
| 18:37.48 | Maxdamantus | unless some receiver is turning it into kinetic energy or something, it's going to be heating something up. |
| 18:38.05 | KotCzarny | i think we are talking two different physics realities |
| 18:38.50 | Maxdamantus | Sure, it's not the sort of heat that CatButts is talking about (it doesn't necessarily heat up the device) |
| 18:39.19 | Maxdamantus | but .. light makes things hot |
| 18:39.43 | KotCzarny | nope |
| 18:39.50 | Maxdamantus | No? |
| 18:40.12 | KotCzarny | you are thinking about thermal part of em spectrum |
| 18:41.18 | Maxdamantus | The reason you'd consider only part of the spectrum to be thermal is because most matter is transparent to the rest of it. |
| 18:41.25 | KotCzarny | yup |
| 18:41.32 | KotCzarny | mostly |
| 18:41.34 | Maxdamantus | but it's never completely transparent. |
| 18:41.36 | KotCzarny | not not entirely |
| 18:42.33 | KotCzarny | engineers like to approximate energy transfers as heat only |
| 18:42.40 | KotCzarny | but it's not the whole picture |
| 18:44.19 | Maxdamantus | anyway, from Wikipedia: |
| 18:44.20 | Maxdamantus | > Thermal radiation, also known as heat, is the emission of electromagnetic waves from all matter that has a temperature greater than absolute zero. |
| 18:45.07 | CatButts | I am under impression that heat radiation sits on lowest end of IR |
| 18:46.38 | Maxdamantus | All EM radiation is heat. It's just a question of how likely it is for that radiation to transfer the heat to the phone body, or the air around it, or your hand, etc. |
| 18:47.16 | KotCzarny | i wonder if TDP calculations include whole EM radiation or just part |
| 18:47.39 | Maxdamantus | I think those usually apply to local areas, like the CPU. |
| 18:47.52 | KotCzarny | part of EM spectrum, that is |
| 18:51.13 | sixwheeledbeast | When it comes to processors ICs etc as far as I was aware most of that turns into heat. |
| 18:51.46 | KotCzarny | maybe my 'heat' definition wasnt proper then. oh well |
| 18:51.55 | KotCzarny | always nice to remember those things up |
| 18:58.23 | Maxdamantus | with TDP, I think the point is about how much heat can be transferred (dissipated) through a particular point. |
| 18:58.56 | Maxdamantus | since even if you have a massive heatsink/fan, the heat (measured in W) still goes through the CPU. |
| 19:00.42 | KotCzarny | i suspect that it still takes only thermal (as in human heat definition) in calculations because rest escapes freely |
| 19:05.05 | sixwheeledbeast | I always believed TDP was one of those "funny" values where you rate things in the technically incorrect scale due to legacy reasons |
| 19:05.24 | KotCzarny | swb: also marketing |
| 19:05.29 | KotCzarny | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power |
| 19:05.32 | KotCzarny | funny story |
| 19:05.36 | sixwheeledbeast | a bit like measuring light fittings in wattage instead of lumens |
| 19:06.51 | sixwheeledbeast | I know that AMD and Intels TDP's are massively different |
| 19:07.57 | KotCzarny | citing cpt. jack: 'more what you'd call a guidelines than actual rules' |
| 19:07.58 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 19:10.00 | sixwheeledbeast | I have no issue with how any scale is invented as long as it's consistent, they where all invented at some point. |
| 19:10.10 | KotCzarny | 'were' |
| 19:10.23 | sixwheeledbeast | #grammer |
| 19:10.27 | KotCzarny | but some scales are based on immovable physical points |
| 19:10.46 | KotCzarny | than just human subjective finger pointing |
| 19:10.59 | KotCzarny | swb: #englishlife |
| 19:11.21 | sixwheeledbeast | someone had to decide where those scales where numbered from |
| 19:11.37 | KotCzarny | 'were' |
| 19:11.47 | sixwheeledbeast | Imagine if the hottest Kelvin was 0 |
| 19:12.46 | sixwheeledbeast | s/w/wh/g :P |
| 19:13.15 | KotCzarny | whas? |
| 19:13.16 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 19:13.43 | sixwheeledbeast | exactly is the same ;) |
| 19:15.14 | KotCzarny | ish? :P |
| 19:15.27 | sixwheeledbeast | People get on there high horse about the metric system being superior but a lot of times it can be less practical |
| 19:16.18 | KotCzarny | 'their' ? |
| 19:17.01 | KotCzarny | practical doesnt equal proper. it can help in some situations, sure, but are not universal |
| 19:17.09 | KotCzarny | *is not |
| 19:17.20 | sixwheeledbeast | ./join #spelling |
| 19:17.36 | KotCzarny | it's like optimization working for some part of the code, but being slower in general use |
| 19:17.39 | sixwheeledbeast | what do you define as proper? |
| 19:17.42 | hmw_metalab | sixwheeledbeast: Well. There is such a thing as negative temperatures, and they are hotter than any positive one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_temperature |
| 19:18.29 | hmw_metalab | So... 0K isn't the coldest. I hope you enjoy the confusion *evil grin* |
| 19:18.32 | KotCzarny | swb: ockham rule? or however it was spelled |
| 19:19.16 | sixwheeledbeast | an example of why fixed scales can be flawed. |
| 19:19.50 | KotCzarny | swb: nah, that's just our flawed perception of reality |
| 19:20.11 | KotCzarny | the more we know/see, the better the scales |
| 19:22.18 | sixwheeledbeast | As I say with things like these it doesn't matter as long as everyone is on the same page. 1 inch, 1 furlong, 1 millimeter. Not like 90W TDP on different chips is my point |
| 19:22.48 | KotCzarny | sure, but imperial is very flawed when it comes to little/big values |
| 19:23.04 | sixwheeledbeast | as is metric |
| 19:23.05 | KotCzarny | ie. when you go out of human-proximity range |
| 19:23.13 | KotCzarny | nope |
| 19:23.41 | sixwheeledbeast | it's relative to the scale of the measurement. |
| 19:24.10 | KotCzarny | imagine code required to convert between all length units in imperial |
| 19:24.30 | KotCzarny | it's just overcomplicated |
| 19:24.36 | KotCzarny | ockham rule. |
| 19:24.42 | sixwheeledbeast | The whole point of imperial measurements is each one has an intended purpose. |
| 19:25.00 | KotCzarny | sure, as i've said, local optimizations |
| 19:25.07 | KotCzarny | but failure in generalization |
| 19:25.57 | sixwheeledbeast | It's not a one size fits all thing. If "metric" wasn't invented then you would make another "yardstick" for your even bigger measurement. |
| 19:26.13 | KotCzarny | biggest inefficiency of metric is being 10 based |
| 19:26.29 | sixwheeledbeast | I disagree with that too |
| 19:26.33 | hmw_metalab | KotCzarny: how so?? |
| 19:26.47 | KotCzarny | because you then have to convert binary to decimal |
| 19:26.54 | KotCzarny | ebcdic? |
| 19:26.55 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 19:27.14 | KotCzarny | early IT was funny |
| 19:27.15 | sixwheeledbeast | You can divide 10 by a lot less numbers than you can say 12 or 16 |
| 19:27.29 | KotCzarny | see? another human perception |
| 19:27.31 | hmw_metalab | or 60. 360 |
| 19:27.34 | KotCzarny | binary ftw. |
| 19:27.44 | hmw_metalab | Babylonian maths ftw *g* |
| 19:28.47 | sixwheeledbeast | a computer is a tool, use the best tool for the job |
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| 19:29.08 | KotCzarny | computer is application of theory in practice |
| 19:29.17 | KotCzarny | and effectively packing numbers is binary based |
| 19:29.32 | KotCzarny | not 10th, not 12 |
| 19:30.26 | KotCzarny | it's just maths, not human perception |
| 19:30.42 | KotCzarny | for humans you can add some code to display |
| 19:31.04 | KotCzarny | if we had 4 fingers instead of 5, it would be much more effective |
| 19:31.05 | sixwheeledbeast | oh you said inefficiency. I am loosing my marbles... |
| 19:32.13 | sixwheeledbeast | using base2 means you need more figures making it less human friendly. |
| 19:32.51 | sixwheeledbeast | imagines a base2 measuring tape... |
| 19:34.02 | KotCzarny | really, if we all grew up with 4 fingers on each hand, you would grok binary/octa with mothers milk |
| 19:35.33 | mp107 | On the other side, binary⦠may be just a nowadays computers perspective so I am not sure whether it should be treated as a priority |
| 19:36.46 | KotCzarny | it's basic math, with 2 definite states as a base |
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| 19:38.30 | mp107 | Yeah, that's also true. Those two states are probably the easiest to differ between them at general level. |
| 19:40.00 | mp107 | wonders about alien's perspective ;) |
| 19:40.08 | KotCzarny | math is universal |
| 19:40.13 | KotCzarny | that's the trick |
| 19:40.19 | KotCzarny | human perception is not |
| 19:40.37 | KotCzarny | physics is applied math in this particular universe |
| 19:40.39 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 19:43.47 | KotCzarny | with particular constraints and scales. |
| 19:44.40 | sixwheeledbeast | Well I have 4 fingers on each hand so .... |
| 19:45.05 | KotCzarny | but you live in a 10 fingers world. :) |
| 19:45.10 | KotCzarny | anyway, nite. |
| 19:45.18 | sixwheeledbeast | gn |
| 19:46.01 | sixwheeledbeast | 10 fingers world can use the metric system if that makes them feel at home. |
| 19:47.11 | sixwheeledbeast | I'll just use the most convenient scale at the time of measurement. |
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| 21:49.23 | Maxdamantus | My hand has 5 fingers, but 32 states: https://drive.google.com/file/d/15eyfRPhuUU-z3cPU64IK-ybP54SZrgxa/view |
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