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| 00:17.29 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | "firmware" see ~lf (or ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher) sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_maemo/latest.log.html | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 07:44.11 | FatPhil | Ug, g/f was right - CSSU upgrade no longer works |
| 07:45.02 | bencoh | hmm, do you mean installing cssu does not work? |
| 07:45.23 | bencoh | (like, stock -> cssu ?) |
| 07:45.35 | FatPhil | freshly flashed 1.3 -> cssu testing |
| 07:45.43 | bencoh | what does it say? |
| 07:46.36 | FatPhil | YOu must make a backup. I make a backup. YOU MUST MAKE A BACKUP!!!!! Erm???? |
| 07:46.45 | bencoh | wtf :D |
| 07:47.07 | bencoh | can't you skip the backup thing? I don't remember doing one at the time |
| 07:47.08 | FatPhil | technically, i didn't use PC suite, as recommended because I don't have PC suite. |
| 07:47.11 | bencoh | making* |
| 07:47.27 | KotCzarny | ~bm |
| 07:47.27 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975, or one-click install handling dependency issues: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/BM.install |
| 07:47.33 | bencoh | ~admins |
| 07:47.36 | bencoh | ~admin |
| 07:47.52 | KotCzarny | i think the n900's backup is meant to be done via backup-menu |
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| 07:48.10 | FatPhil | This was a freshly flashed device, I didn't see the need to do backup menu step. I can go back tho' |
| 07:48.13 | bencoh | xes: hey there! looks like the letsencrypt certificates are expired and were not renewed |
| 07:48.23 | KotCzarny | then maybe you can skip that part |
| 07:49.45 | FatPhil | Skipping the installation of backupmenu is easy. Skipping "Maemo update : TO update your device ... you must use Nokia PC Suite ... [create backup]" is non-skippable |
| 07:50.55 | bencoh | hmm |
| 07:50.58 | FatPhil | LAst time I upgraded to CSSU on the old phone was about 5 years ago, and it did work then, so somethings got broke between then and about 2 years ago |
| 07:51.10 | KotCzarny | maybe your problem is something else? |
| 07:51.13 | FatPhil | (when g/f attempted and failed with this error to upgrade hers) |
| 07:51.21 | KotCzarny | for example some repo missing |
| 07:51.36 | KotCzarny | and backup is the only thing you see on the gui side |
| 07:52.06 | FatPhil | I installed these two: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/muarf_all.install |
| 07:52.28 | FatPhil | The other repo links are dead here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#Mirrors_of_standard_Nokia_repos_.28using_Application_manager.29 |
| 07:52.34 | KotCzarny | uhum |
| 07:53.24 | FatPhil | Can I do the upgrade without GUI tools - just from a root shell? |
| 07:54.18 | FatPhil | I'll try the backupmenu install, and see if that shuts up the warning loop, but I think it won't (as g/f would have tried it) |
| 07:54.19 | KotCzarny | if you have time and skills, most likely, but would be better to find the problem |
| 07:54.22 | bencoh | tbh if the only thing you'd need to get it work is install backupmenu and run it, I'd rather go that way |
| 07:55.44 | bencoh | as for changing apt repositories and install cssu meta package, it might work, unless the "installer" does some extra work |
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| 07:58.35 | FatPhil | blimey, it's ages sincew I used application manager - it's terrible - worse than I remember! |
| 07:59.06 | bencoh | it is, yeah |
| 07:59.11 | KotCzarny | apt-get install for backup menu ? :> |
| 07:59.23 | KotCzarny | (not recommended, but heck) |
| 07:59.37 | FatPhil | OK, that's opened up a webpage that's blank :/ |
| 07:59.48 | bencoh | it was improved in cssu though (I think it landed in -testing) |
| 07:59.57 | KotCzarny | really, the whole dichotomy between results of app manager and apt is bad |
| 08:00.24 | KotCzarny | bencoh: i think app manager landed even in cssu |
| 08:00.55 | bencoh | FatPhil: hmm ... that might be related to the expired certificates (07/17/2018) |
| 08:01.17 | KotCzarny | 2018 ? |
| 08:01.30 | bencoh | err, 2019 |
| 08:01.37 | KotCzarny | but yeah |
| 08:01.42 | KotCzarny | that's a clue |
| 08:01.43 | FatPhil | KotCzarny: couldn't agree more. I tried to migrate over to aptitude briefly, but the gui version of that always crashed! |
| 08:02.07 | bencoh | I use apt-get/apt-cache on maemo |
| 08:02.24 | sixwheeledbeast | HAM throws that type of error whenever it thinks there is an issue. Other package managers are just asking for trouble on Maemo |
| 08:02.26 | FatPhil | well, it claims to have installed backupmenu |
| 08:03.34 | FatPhil | is that supposed to have created an icon somewhere for me to click on to run it? |
| 08:03.58 | KotCzarny | probably |
| 08:04.31 | FatPhil | I can't see one |
| 08:04.40 | FatPhil | either desktops or the app menu |
| 08:04.44 | KotCzarny | maybe in prefs? |
| 08:04.56 | KotCzarny | i never used bm, so cant comment |
| 08:05.36 | sixwheeledbeast | I believe bm is only access on boot |
| 08:05.38 | sixwheeledbeast | ~bm |
| 08:05.39 | infobot | backupmenu is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975, or one-click install handling dependency issues: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/BM.install |
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| 08:07.17 | FatPhil | OK, I'll reboot |
| 08:07.46 | sixwheeledbeast | The whole do a backup before installing CSSU is likely a red herring. It often happens with some dependency/cert/repo issue |
| 08:09.05 | sixwheeledbeast | A stock backup may not be useful if CSSU replaces the kernel anyway |
| 08:10.37 | bencoh | sixwheeledbeast: any idea who has admin access btw? |
| 08:10.43 | bencoh | (to fix the cert thing) |
| 08:10.53 | sixwheeledbeast | xes? |
| 08:11.16 | sixwheeledbeast | techstaff @ maemo? |
| 08:11.19 | bencoh | right, apart from xes I meant, my bad (I pinged him) |
| 08:11.21 | sixwheeledbeast | ~unbanip |
| 08:11.21 | infobot | from memory, unbanip is please contact techstaff <at> maemo <dot> org with your request, or see ~techstaff, or see https://www.stopforumspam.com/removal, or if your ip is dynamic, try changing it, or tags: RBL, tmo IP blocked, spam |
| 08:11.29 | bencoh | ah, thx |
| 08:11.32 | bencoh | ~techstaff |
| 08:11.32 | infobot | hmm... techstaff is techstaff(AT)maemo.org - the folks that keep your maemo infra running. Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/ |
| 08:11.56 | sixwheeledbeast | ah that's another way |
| 08:13.37 | FatPhil | no backupmanu evidence anywhere |
| 08:13.56 | sixwheeledbeast | boot with slide open? |
| 08:13.56 | KotCzarny | dpkg -l|grep -i backup ? |
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| 08:15.01 | FatPhil | the package is there, about a dozen files all told |
| 08:15.15 | FatPhil | just nothing clickyclicky |
| 08:16.41 | sixwheeledbeast | boot with slide open, it's to create an image of the OS you can't do that while mounted |
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| 08:17.07 | KotCzarny | swb, backup menu should add simple icon with documentation to app list |
| 08:17.10 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 08:17.31 | KotCzarny | and maybe basic functionality |
| 08:18.46 | FatPhil | Ah, not much encouragement from the g/f and her battle against CSSU: That [backup] loop was indeed one issue. If I got past it, there was another. |
| 08:19.25 | FatPhil | sixwheeledbeast: can someone add that to the wiki? I might need it again in 5 years time! |
| 08:19.35 | sixwheeledbeast | :shrug: if I recall correctly it's over the limit of what is allowed in rootfs which was blocking it from getting past Devel |
| 08:19.50 | sixwheeledbeast | Where in the wiki? |
| 08:20.34 | FatPhil | step 2 here? http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU ? |
| 08:20.54 | sixwheeledbeast | I'll have a look np. I think many use the lazy flash solution? |
| 08:20.58 | sixwheeledbeast | ~lazyflash |
| 08:21.35 | sixwheeledbeast | I can't remember what it's call joerg's install script. |
| 08:21.43 | KotCzarny | ~lf |
| 08:21.44 | infobot | it has been said that #maemo lazyflashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach |
| 08:21.44 | bencoh | ah right |
| 08:21.48 | FatPhil | YEah, it's a shame that there isn't just a FIASCO with the CSSU on it. |
| 08:21.59 | bencoh | I wonder if it still works |
| 08:22.27 | KotCzarny | there is also predecessor: |
| 08:22.29 | KotCzarny | ~flashing |
| 08:22.29 | infobot | i guess maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing |
| 08:24.39 | bencoh | this only flashes stock apparently |
| 08:25.24 | sixwheeledbeast | FatPhil: done re wiki |
| 08:25.59 | FatPhil | I flashed stock yesterday |
| 08:26.13 | sixwheeledbeast | CSSU where not allowed to distribute a CSSU image IIRC. |
| 08:26.35 | sixwheeledbeast | flash it all maybe it |
| 08:27.04 | KotCzarny | swb: lf method is next iteration of it |
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| 08:28.31 | sixwheeledbeast | ah |
| 08:28.55 | KotCzarny | basically the same, just without manual unpack and sudo etc |
| 08:29.19 | KotCzarny | flash-it-all works fine though |
| 08:30.40 | FatPhil | booting with camera slide open seems to achieve nothing |
| 08:30.47 | KotCzarny | not camera, kb |
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| 08:32.36 | FatPhil | ooh |
| 08:35.23 | FatPhil | not sure how the CSSU installer is going to know if I've done any of this, so not sure how it addresses the "Can't get out of the 'You must backup' loop" problem |
| 08:35.44 | KotCzarny | as mentioned earlier, it might be wrong error message |
| 08:35.52 | KotCzarny | and real issue being something else |
| 08:35.58 | KotCzarny | ie. expired cert on webpage |
| 08:36.12 | KotCzarny | s/webpage/server/ |
| 08:36.43 | FatPhil | i can set my date to anything |
| 08:36.44 | KotCzarny | but feel free to do a backup |
| 08:36.58 | KotCzarny | it's not your device, it must be done on server |
| 08:37.14 | KotCzarny | (the cert) |
| 08:37.17 | FatPhil | this is failing the same way as it did 2 years ago for g/f |
| 08:37.23 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 08:37.36 | FatPhil | If my phone thinks its 2017, then a cert that expires in 2018 is still fine |
| 08:37.57 | KotCzarny | well, worth a try |
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| 08:43.06 | bencoh | KotCzarny: certificate is verified at client side, afaict :) |
| 08:44.08 | KotCzarny | bencoh, but fix must be done on server |
| 08:44.09 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 08:44.25 | bencoh | true :) |
| 08:44.34 | KotCzarny | real fix, that is |
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| 08:45.08 | bencoh | I wonder if it really is the issue though (I just assumed all certs expired at the same time) |
| 08:45.48 | KotCzarny | i cant check atm, so lets see how it goes for him |
| 08:45.50 | sixwheeledbeast | I am sure there is a way to get past the PC suite or Make Backup dialogs in HAM. It's pretty much always a package conflict/repo error. |
| 08:48.29 | FatPhil | backupmenu is clunking away, I chose compression, so it looks like I've got an hour to go... |
| 08:49.55 | sixwheeledbeast | It's worth having a bm image of before and after installing CSSU that way you only need bm you restore a fresh device. |
| 08:50.40 | FatPhil | sixwheeledbeast: should I actively delete the no-longer-functioning (default) repos from the app manager? |
| 08:51.05 | FatPhil | Flashing takes a minute. Nothing is easier than just reflashing. |
| 08:51.13 | sixwheeledbeast | I don't believe you can, just set as disabled I think |
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| 09:15.12 | FatPhil | backed up. I'll set my date to 2017, and see if that affects things... |
| 09:19.44 | FatPhil | oooh - if I did a complete backup of my old phone using backupmenu, and a restore on this phone, might that work? what's not backed up? |
| 09:21.04 | bencoh | good question, but I'd say it's worth a try :) |
| 09:21.11 | bencoh | well, unless you want to start fresh |
| 09:21.15 | FatPhil | ah, the kernel's not under /, it's a separate mtd partition |
| 09:21.20 | bencoh | does the date trick works though? |
| 09:21.22 | bencoh | yeah |
| 09:22.00 | FatPhil | app manager's being weird, it's doing nothing... |
| 09:22.06 | bencoh | but you can always upgrade to kernel-power anyway |
| 09:22.30 | bencoh | (alghough using backupmenu might mean you'll be missing kernel modules then ...) |
| 09:22.39 | KotCzarny | how apps restoring works? isnt it just a list of installed ones or full fs dump? |
| 09:23.16 | bencoh | (this whole separated kernel/modules thing is quite a mess tbh, especially for a phone / embedded product) |
| 09:23.48 | FatPhil | Still get the Maemo Update: ... you must ... [create backup] popup |
| 09:25.05 | FatPhil | And nothing proceeds after I quit that. |
| 09:25.10 | FatPhil | stuck in the loop still |
| 09:26.11 | FatPhil | Might be because I didn't use PC Suite, but that's because I don't have PC Suite (or a windows PC). |
| 09:27.16 | FatPhil | ah, fuckit, I need lunch. |
| 09:27.22 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 09:28.26 | FatPhil | I'll install backupmenu on the old phone after lunch, and see if I can get my old CSSU onto an uSD card. |
| 09:30.54 | FatPhil | Hmmm, 2017 gives key expired errors from apt-get update, as does a date of 2016... |
| 09:31.08 | bencoh | that should be a non-issue |
| 09:31.08 | KotCzarny | thats for nokia repos |
| 09:31.10 | KotCzarny | most likely |
| 09:31.34 | KotCzarny | old packages that cant be rebuilt |
| 09:31.51 | FatPhil | maemo.muarf.org |
| 09:32.31 | KotCzarny | it's just a mirror with old packages |
| 09:32.37 | KotCzarny | that refer to expired key |
| 09:38.25 | bencoh | we never went through the hassle of resigning closed / binary-only packages |
| 09:39.26 | bencoh | (although we could probably distribute new keys first then use new keys to resign those) |
| 09:39.35 | bencoh | which makes me think ... I wonder when cssu keys expire |
| 09:41.39 | bencoh | ah, I don't see any "expires" |
| 09:41.47 | bencoh | so maybe never |
| 09:41.56 | bencoh | (that's strange though) |
| 09:55.12 | FatPhil | perkele - this phone doesn't have backupmenu... |
| 09:57.50 | sixwheeledbeast | kernel would need to be the same on both devices your moving the images between |
| 09:58.08 | sixwheeledbeast | ~ham |
| 09:58.09 | infobot | well, ham is Hildon Application Manager. Slow as molasses. Anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does, or see ~speedyham |
| 09:58.41 | sixwheeledbeast | CSSU-T will install speedyham when you eventually get that far |
| 09:58.58 | bencoh | ~speedyham |
| 09:58.58 | infobot | [speedyham] 30 times faster than HAM https://github.com/community-ssu/hildon-application-manager, now included in CSSU. |
| 10:00.24 | FatPhil | i was checking using apt-cache, I'm not stupid! |
| 10:02.31 | FatPhil | but yeah, the kernel thing is a big hurdle |
| 10:02.44 | sixwheeledbeast | As I say the PC suite message is just some generic message spat out when HAM thinks theres an issue. |
| 10:02.55 | FatPhil | i might be able to get over it by excessive use of flasher |
| 10:03.06 | *** join/#maemo saidinesh5 (~quassel@minad.de) |
| 10:03.36 | sixwheeledbeast | From memory you need to dismiss it and find the problems tab which will normally show the actual issue |
| 10:04.24 | FatPhil | or ... I could just stick with grotty nokia userspace |
| 10:05.48 | sixwheeledbeast | You have added the mirror nokia repos in HAM? |
| 10:06.48 | FatPhil | I have the two from maemo.muarf.org - the linenoise ones are dead links now |
| 10:07.36 | sixwheeledbeast | yep muarf |
| 10:07.49 | FatPhil | log says nothing but "connectec to [some uuid]" after dismissing the backup |
| 10:08.37 | sixwheeledbeast | You have the CSSU packge installer as an item in HAM? If you select it can you get to Problems tab |
| 10:09.56 | FatPhil | which section would it be under in HAM - 'system'? |
| 10:10.19 | sixwheeledbeast | Also check the muarf repos are added correctly. distribution box should be ./ |
| 10:10.23 | sixwheeledbeast | system? |
| 10:10.25 | FatPhil | I see CSSU features configuration package, that's all |
| 10:10.50 | FatPhil | yup, in HAM, under download, there are 11 icons for the different types of package |
| 10:10.52 | sixwheeledbeast | so how are you installing cssu? |
| 10:11.17 | sixwheeledbeast | YOu click the 'install link on the website right? |
| 10:11.40 | FatPhil | starting at 1. and working my way down here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU |
| 10:12.09 | KotCzarny | it's also worth noting that clicking results in some window, that you close, then app manager does it's magic underneath and after some minutes something pops up/updates for real |
| 10:12.54 | FatPhil | there was a shell window the first time |
| 10:13.25 | FatPhil | that popped up HAM, and the loop began |
| 10:13.56 | KotCzarny | might be worth checking what troubles apt has underneath |
| 10:15.15 | FatPhil | so, I clicked the link, PAM said the package was already installed, and now I'm sitting at the PAM main menu - what should I do next? |
| 10:17.12 | sixwheeledbeast | If you accepted the script then there should be a Community SSU "program" icon in your list of programs you click |
| 10:17.36 | sixwheeledbeast | This is step 7 on wiki |
| 10:17.47 | sixwheeledbeast | close ham first |
| 10:18.15 | FatPhil | I'm stuck at step 6 |
| 10:19.45 | FatPhil | shell window popped up, lots of stuck was unpacked, PAM was launched, I OKed a couple of popup dialogs, and then I was ordered to make a backup. |
| 10:19.48 | sixwheeledbeast | step 6 takes a while and there should be an accept option. |
| 10:20.08 | sixwheeledbeast | right so try step 7 |
| 10:20.18 | FatPhil | step 6 has not completed |
| 10:20.41 | FatPhil | after I create a backup, HAM just sits there doing nothing. |
| 10:21.42 | sixwheeledbeast | is it definately doing "nothing" no waiting animations? |
| 10:22.05 | FatPhil | If I attempt to update, it checks for updates, shows Maemo 5 CSSU package, and a whole bunch of libqtms, and I then click [update all] |
| 10:22.31 | FatPhil | ready to install all updates [Continue] |
| 10:22.50 | sixwheeledbeast | So you are at step 7 step 6 has finished from what i can tell |
| 10:23.11 | FatPhil | PReparing, please wait ... Update: Maemo 5 CSSI [x] I understand and agree [continue] |
| 10:23.15 | sixwheeledbeast | close HAM click the icon in programs list |
| 10:23.38 | FatPhil | maemo update: ... you must ... [create backup] |
| 10:24.03 | sixwheeledbeast | ok you may have ended up at step 8 |
| 10:24.44 | FatPhil | dismissing that popup leaves me with the list of packages that need to be updated and the [update all] button. |
| 10:25.04 | FatPhil | clicking through to the backup wastes my time and then takes me back to the same place. |
| 10:25.11 | sixwheeledbeast | Do step 7 |
| 10:25.27 | KotCzarny | i strongly suspect some package blocks the update (or missing repo) |
| 10:25.46 | sixwheeledbeast | step 7 installs the repos to HAM while it's closed |
| 10:25.47 | KotCzarny | since that's what i stumbled upon long time ago when i was updating from stock |
| 10:26.10 | KotCzarny | yup, might be just that |
| 10:27.01 | FatPhil | There is no "Community SSU" icon to launch. Probably because the 51.8MB of packages that needed to be updated as part of the Maaemo 5 CSSU package never were updated. |
| 10:27.15 | sixwheeledbeast | I would close HAM have a coffee while it thinks, then find the Community SSU icon in programs which will run the next script to install the CSSU repos. |
| 10:28.18 | KotCzarny | cssu updater should be rewritten in pygtk with feedback what it currently does |
| 10:28.29 | KotCzarny | without all that window juggling and background magic |
| 10:28.49 | bencoh | uh |
| 10:29.03 | sixwheeledbeast | The .install file my have been interrupted somehow then.. hmm It is a community workaround for system updates :shrug: |
| 10:29.07 | bencoh | I don't really follow with the "pygtk" thing, but ... |
| 10:29.23 | KotCzarny | pygtk makes it easy to fix |
| 10:29.31 | KotCzarny | and let user see what it does |
| 10:29.36 | *** join/#maemo saidinesh5 (~quassel@minad.de) |
| 10:30.01 | sixwheeledbeast | Then I would check the Community SSU repo has been added to the Application Catalogues list if it's not there try adding it manually and installing as per step 8 |
| 10:30.41 | FatPhil | top shows that nothing's running |
| 10:32.42 | FatPhil | I now have 2 Community SSU (testing) catalogue entries, both identical |
| 10:33.22 | KotCzarny | assuming update process is already broken, check what apt-get update/upgrade barfs on |
| 10:33.27 | *** join/#maemo florian_kc (~florian_k@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 10:33.58 | FatPhil | update barfs on the cert expired error |
| 10:34.22 | FatPhil | (with the hilarious "run apt-get update to fix" advice!) |
| 10:34.28 | KotCzarny | care to pastebin it ? |
| 10:35.19 | FatPhil | sure, what's a good pastebin for you guys? |
| 10:35.30 | KotCzarny | pastebin.com is fine if you have adblocker |
| 10:35.36 | KotCzarny | it has nice 'raw' button |
| 10:38.09 | FatPhil | argh, I can't use this new phone, it doesn't have all the shell-friendly kdb mappings I set up on the old one! |
| 10:39.07 | sixwheeledbeast | so when you select Community SSU (Testing) to install in HAM can you get to a Problems Tab? |
| 10:40.18 | sixwheeledbeast | Not if you Select "Update all" just the Community SSU update |
| 10:42.10 | sixwheeledbeast | I think it's an Application Details dialog box with a Problems tab |
| 10:42.55 | FatPhil | pastebin not letting me paste, presumably captcha/cookies issue |
| 10:44.47 | KotCzarny | FatPhil: install ssh server and rootsh for now |
| 10:44.56 | KotCzarny | easies the cmdline chores |
| 10:45.38 | bencoh | +1 for ssh :) |
| 10:45.39 | FatPhil | yeah, I have ssh'ed root@localhost |
| 10:45.56 | FatPhil | And I hve a webserver, who needs pastebin! http://fatphil.org/tmp/aptupd.txt |
| 10:46.02 | bencoh | :) |
| 10:46.24 | KotCzarny | update seems ok |
| 10:46.31 | bencoh | those errors are "fine" |
| 10:46.41 | KotCzarny | what does 'upgrade' say? (dont confirm it though) |
| 10:48.41 | FatPhil | s/upd/upg/ |
| 10:49.51 | KotCzarny | ho hum |
| 10:49.56 | KotCzarny | nothing suspicious |
| 10:50.16 | FatPhil | I'm much happier doing things from the command line (at least when I have my kbd mappings set up) |
| 10:50.25 | FatPhil | should I go ahead with the upgrade? |
| 10:50.43 | FatPhil | I don't care if I fuck the phone, a reflash is only a minute away |
| 10:50.46 | KotCzarny | if you have repos added, ho hum |
| 10:50.53 | KotCzarny | sure, you are stuck anyway, no? |
| 10:50.54 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 10:51.05 | bencoh | go for it :) |
| 10:51.35 | FatPhil | authentication warnings dismissed... |
| 10:51.40 | KotCzarny | bencoh, do you know if cssu installer does anything more than adding repos, installing one package and doing upgrade? |
| 10:52.26 | bencoh | that's the question I'm asking myself tbh |
| 10:52.35 | FatPhil | source? |
| 10:52.50 | KotCzarny | sure, i'm 'working' now though. ;) |
| 10:52.51 | bencoh | FatPhil: ? |
| 10:53.00 | FatPhil | not that I read gui |
| 10:53.23 | KotCzarny | but currently cssu installer is so convoluted and error prone that it might as well be rewritten |
| 10:53.36 | FatPhil | as a small perl script! |
| 10:53.38 | KotCzarny | (which i have added to personal todo) |
| 10:53.50 | KotCzarny | fatphil, pygtk is fine too, ;) |
| 10:53.51 | bencoh | oh, you mean "just read the source" ... yeah :) |
| 10:54.09 | FatPhil | yeah, sorry, being a bit brief |
| 10:54.59 | FatPhil | A console-only upgrade path would be something I'd willingly help test. |
| 10:55.18 | KotCzarny | you are doing it now |
| 10:55.19 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 10:55.35 | KotCzarny | if you end up with cssu-t, it might be the way |
| 10:55.36 | FatPhil | I'd like this new phone to be my primary device by next week, but until then, it's fair game for experimentation. |
| 10:55.43 | bencoh | :) |
| 10:55.53 | FatPhil | is -t testing or thumbing? |
| 10:56.03 | KotCzarny | oh, right |
| 10:56.06 | bencoh | I wonder if we could actually distribute a cssu "patch" to the fiasco image |
| 10:56.13 | KotCzarny | you shouldnt use cssu-testing |
| 10:56.19 | KotCzarny | either cssu or cssu-thumb |
| 10:56.22 | bencoh | and actually patch said image on client side |
| 10:56.42 | KotCzarny | bencoh: by patch you mean 'repack' ? |
| 10:56.46 | bencoh | (this way we wouldn't need to redistribute the closed binary) |
| 10:56.54 | bencoh | KotCzarny: either a proper repack, or a binary patch :) |
| 10:57.16 | KotCzarny | plausible, but keep in mind different distros suck big time when it comes to writing to images/mkfs etc |
| 10:57.21 | KotCzarny | been there, done that |
| 10:57.22 | bencoh | (bsdiff/bspatch for instance) |
| 10:57.25 | bencoh | yeah |
| 10:57.33 | KotCzarny | ended up writing small ramdisk and running things on controlled env |
| 10:57.34 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 10:57.36 | *** join/#maemo saidinesh5 (~quassel@minad.de) |
| 10:58.28 | KotCzarny | i would simply go with the fiasco way, after all those years who would care anyway |
| 10:58.42 | KotCzarny | n900 is so old and obsolete |
| 10:58.42 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 10:58.51 | KotCzarny | and no money to get out of it |
| 10:58.52 | FatPhil | Well, I clicked testing at step 5. I presumed that was testing, not thumbing. |
| 10:59.16 | KotCzarny | FatPhil: i personally can recommend thumb, saves some ram and is stable |
| 10:59.21 | FatPhil | KotCzarny: there are no staff to detect the crime, and no lawyers to chase it up! |
| 10:59.43 | bencoh | I vaguely recall -thumb sits in a different repo |
| 10:59.46 | FatPhil | old phone is thumb, and it's mostly good. Camera's fxored |
| 10:59.53 | FatPhil | might be h/w |
| 11:00.07 | KotCzarny | or you have installed some b0rken driver |
| 11:00.50 | bencoh | oh, I completely forgot about https://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/software-updates-courgette |
| 11:01.27 | FatPhil | you will notice that http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU doesn't define "CSSU-T" before first use. |
| 11:01.35 | FatPhil | Well, I did, anyway. |
| 11:04.15 | FatPhil | ah, upgrade had some failures. I wasn't teeing the output alas. |
| 11:05.05 | FatPhil | maemosec-certman-common-ca |
| 11:05.37 | KotCzarny | what kind of failures? |
| 11:05.45 | bencoh | a postinst issue? |
| 11:05.49 | FatPhil | I will try some surgery to fix it, as the system might be in a bit of a confused state by now, and if that doesn't work I'll just reflash and start again. |
| 11:06.03 | KotCzarny | pastebin what you have now |
| 11:06.04 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 11:12.56 | *** join/#maemo FatPhil_ (~luser@6-251-190-90.dyn.estpak.ee) |
| 11:14.20 | FatPhil_ | managed to persuade apt-get upgrade to complete, I think |
| 11:16.02 | FatPhil_ | in the middle it popped up a HAM, which has stopped on the notification "Unable to download Community-ssu-enabler-testing. Application package not found. |
| 11:16.53 | bencoh | huhu |
| 11:17.40 | KotCzarny | which is probably the reason installer was failing |
| 11:17.48 | KotCzarny | now the cause of that.. |
| 11:18.28 | FatPhil_ | it showed no updates pending. i did a refresh, and now the maemo 5 cssu package is in the updates list. |
| 11:20.20 | FatPhil_ | this phones knickers have more twists than knickers now. |
| 11:20.51 | FatPhil_ | that package is nio longer 58MB, it's 671KB |
| 11:22.07 | bencoh | which package is that? the meta one? the "enabler" app? |
| 11:22.09 | FatPhil | ooooh - now Maemo Update doesn't say "... you must ..." at the backup stage now! - proceeding |
| 11:22.42 | FatPhil | and it's closed my xterm, I see! |
| 11:22.48 | FatPhil | pewpewpew! |
| 11:23.31 | Wikiwide | /me waves |
| 11:24.08 | bencoh | \o |
| 11:24.33 | FatPhil | reboot... |
| 11:24.39 | Wikiwide | Power-button drop-down menu doesn't work. I have already tried 'killall systemui' and 'systemui'. If i black-out the screen and press power-button, then Slide to unlock works. |
| 11:25.33 | FatPhil | 'operating system successfully updated'! |
| 11:25.36 | *** join/#maemo saidinesh5 (~quassel@minad.de) |
| 11:25.59 | bencoh | claps |
| 11:26.02 | bencoh | congratz! |
| 11:26.05 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 11:26.10 | KotCzarny | cmdline ftw! |
| 11:26.34 | bencoh | not for most regular users, but ... yeah |
| 11:26.44 | FatPhil | exactly - and I couldn't have done it without the help of you pesky meddling kids! |
| 11:26.49 | Wikiwide | If you get memory card, try dual-booting with Maemo Leste? |
| 11:28.13 | FatPhil | I do have a spare uSD, I could play with that |
| 11:28.21 | Wikiwide | /me is too exhausted to even try thinking about it; should be doable, in theory... In practice, I have broken microUSB, rusty antennae, and run out of charge fairly quickly |
| 11:28.23 | FatPhil | do I need backupmenu in order to boot into it? |
| 11:28.48 | Wikiwide | Uboot, probably |
| 11:29.25 | bencoh | uboot yeah |
| 11:29.32 | Wikiwide | Not multi-boot, if I remember correctly. Multi-boot is the one that can brick the device? /Unbricking is easy... If microUSB port is fine/ |
| 11:29.40 | bencoh | which you should probably install anyway |
| 11:29.45 | bencoh | (same goes for kernel-power) |
| 11:30.02 | KotCzarny | same goes for cssu-thumb |
| 11:31.30 | FatPhil | the weird thing is I never interatcted with any Community SSU icon at all. That step must have been achieved by the command line |
| 11:32.18 | FatPhil | how do I know I'm thumb? |
| 11:32.45 | bencoh | you're probably not, unless you specifically installed it |
| 11:32.58 | KotCzarny | check which cssu repos you use |
| 11:32.59 | FatPhil | I'm not running a -cssu kernl according to uname |
| 11:33.15 | KotCzarny | power kernel is recommended |
| 11:34.22 | Wikiwide | Settings -> About Community SSU can help |
| 11:34.39 | FatPhil | Linux kernel for power users? |
| 11:34.49 | KotCzarny | nah |
| 11:34.59 | KotCzarny | just not-stock-kernel-with-some-handy-tweaks |
| 11:36.02 | FatPhil | if not that, then what's it called? |
| 11:36.15 | KotCzarny | power kernel |
| 11:36.17 | KotCzarny | or kernel power |
| 11:36.26 | Wikiwide | Hmm, how do I see whether I am running Thumb or not? Repositories list community-testing and community-devel |
| 11:36.40 | KotCzarny | and yeah, brief questions bring ambiguoity |
| 11:36.53 | FatPhil | Ah, HAM is showing me the description of the package larger than the package name. |
| 11:36.59 | bencoh | see http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Thumb :) |
| 11:37.17 | KotCzarny | also: dpkg|grep thumb |
| 11:37.26 | KotCzarny | if you see some packages, you are running thumb |
| 11:37.27 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 11:37.37 | KotCzarny | i mean: dpkg -l|grep thumb |
| 11:37.54 | FatPhil | kernel power 2.6.28.30 = "Linux kernel for power users" |
| 11:38.04 | KotCzarny | FatPhil: yeah, go for it |
| 11:38.14 | Wikiwide | Yes, thumb apparently :-) |
| 11:38.52 | Wikiwide | I am running kernel power 2.6.28-10power53 ?.. |
| 11:39.04 | bencoh | power53 sounds about fine yeah |
| 11:39.22 | bencoh | nevermind the .30 :) |
| 11:39.46 | Wikiwide | Lolz, confusing :-) |
| 11:40.07 | FatPhil | what was the name of the faster app manager? I used to use FAPman on the old device, which was better, but not great. |
| 11:40.27 | KotCzarny | dont use fapman |
| 11:40.40 | KotCzarny | if you upgraded to cssu (any), you should have speedyham |
| 11:40.51 | KotCzarny | ie. HAM that's patched by community to be normal again |
| 11:41.26 | FatPhil | HAM refuses to ackowledge existence of its replacement |
| 11:41.40 | Wikiwide | /me recommends QML-Browser and Fahrplan, as some of the few packages that use the latest openssl 1.1.0h-4 |
| 11:41.42 | KotCzarny | because it's the same packages |
| 11:41.46 | KotCzarny | *package |
| 11:41.52 | KotCzarny | *package name |
| 11:42.01 | KotCzarny | dpkg -l|grep -i ham|grep cssu |
| 11:43.25 | FatPhil | no thumb packages |
| 11:43.41 | KotCzarny | maybe not ham but some longer name |
| 11:43.46 | KotCzarny | dont remember |
| 11:43.56 | KotCzarny | dpkg -l|grep -i package|grep cssu |
| 11:43.59 | KotCzarny | or something maybe |
| 11:44.53 | FatPhil | no hildon-application-manager with that |
| 11:45.12 | KotCzarny | ~speedyham |
| 11:45.12 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, speedyham is 30 times faster than HAM https://github.com/community-ssu/hildon-application-manager, now included in CSSU. |
| 11:45.38 | FatPhil | 2.2.75.2 |
| 11:45.43 | Wikiwide | No ham-ish results visible for dpkg -l | grep cssu | grep thumb |
| 11:46.15 | KotCzarny | ho hum |
| 11:46.27 | Wikiwide | 2.2.75-2 here? |
| 11:46.37 | FatPhil | and as I mentioned - I have no thumb at all. What did I do wrong? At no point was I able to specifically chose thumb during the process in the wiki. |
| 11:47.12 | KotCzarny | FatPhil: you have installe cssu-testing |
| 11:47.21 | KotCzarny | cssu-thumb is another repo |
| 11:47.32 | KotCzarny | you can migrate to it at any time |
| 11:47.44 | sixwheeledbeast | Been away. About >Community SSU is the place to check verison |
| 11:47.48 | KotCzarny | just make sure you have power kernel |
| 11:47.53 | FatPhil | step 5 lists only stable and testing, no thumb |
| 11:48.00 | FatPhil | I was just obeying orders! |
| 11:48.16 | KotCzarny | you didnt ask for thumb |
| 11:48.17 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 11:48.23 | sixwheeledbeast | ~getversion |
| 11:48.23 | infobot | getversion is, like, input the following in a terminal: osso-product-info | grep OSSO_VERSION | cut -d "'" -f 2; dpkg-query -W -f='${Version} ' mp-fremantle-community-pr; uname -r |
| 11:48.24 | KotCzarny | anyway, https://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Thumb |
| 11:48.27 | Wikiwide | Repositories?.. Which repository is for thumb? |
| 11:48.46 | sixwheeledbeast | testing has one newer package that wasn't released in thumb |
| 11:49.02 | KotCzarny | swb: important one? |
| 11:49.10 | sixwheeledbeast | thumb was a fmg side project. |
| 11:50.04 | sixwheeledbeast | Tmaemo12 was not available for thumb |
| 11:50.29 | Wikiwide | WMO certificate expired on 17th of July 2019!!! |
| 11:50.29 | KotCzarny | ahm, you've meant 'one subrelease of cssu' |
| 11:51.16 | sixwheeledbeast | AFAIK if you have both Thumb and Testing repos you get some hybrid version of the newer packages |
| 11:51.22 | Wikiwide | Wiki.maemo.org ^ |
| 11:51.23 | sixwheeledbeast | sorry yes release not package |
| 11:52.12 | KotCzarny | swb: they differ in version, i think apt will downgrade them? |
| 11:52.25 | sixwheeledbeast | hybrid meaning you get some thumb packages and some non-thumb as per apt versioning |
| 11:52.47 | sixwheeledbeast | no idea if this would cause an issue |
| 11:53.07 | KotCzarny | and yeah, having cssu-thumb repos should remove any other cssu repos from ham |
| 11:55.30 | FatPhil | http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-thumb/community-thumb-fremantle.install implies both Community SSU repos remain in use |
| 11:55.51 | FatPhil | -testing and -thumb |
| 11:56.36 | KotCzarny | funky |
| 11:56.52 | FatPhil | unfortunately, it contains the dreaded package = community-ssu-enabler which lead me down the garden path all morning! |
| 11:57.19 | KotCzarny | thats because it's what does the cssu upgrade |
| 11:57.53 | *** join/#maemo sunshavi (~user@190.239.244.220) |
| 11:58.08 | FatPhil | but that would seem to imply just adding that repo to sources.list.d/... |
| 11:58.27 | FatPhil | command line upgrade, update, bosh! |
| 11:59.06 | FatPhil | This HAM is retarded. I try to install a package, and it complains about being unable to install a package because of its dependencies. |
| 11:59.27 | FatPhil | Erm, that's what your job is, as a package manager. |
| 12:00.23 | sicelo | n900 people go and come back ... addictive little thing. |
| 12:01.35 | sicelo | >> having cssu-thumb repos should remove any other cssu repos from ham<< i am not sure about this. thumb is just a small subset of -testing. |
| 12:01.50 | FatPhil | erk - apt-get fails to install those too |
| 12:02.19 | KotCzarny | sicelo, yeah, seeing that thumb .install it's like that |
| 12:02.20 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 12:02.26 | sicelo | btw, someone should mention that CSSU is also obsolete. we're unlikely to ever see any further updates |
| 12:03.46 | sicelo | FatPhil: you wrote zzztop? |
| 12:03.51 | FatPhil | ah, looks like the packages themselves hve broken dependencies (epseak) |
| 12:03.57 | FatPhil | sicelo: yup |
| 12:04.04 | sicelo | :) |
| 12:05.30 | Wikiwide | Why is CSSU obsolete? Because Maemo Leste? |
| 12:05.41 | KotCzarny | because cssu-testing maybe |
| 12:05.47 | sicelo | maybe i should say, frozen. |
| 12:05.52 | FatPhil | I just hope it has been useful. It (or the non-OSS original it's basically a clone of) was very useful back in the day (2009) |
| 12:06.02 | Wikiwide | Or CSSU-devel, even... |
| 12:06.04 | sicelo | FatPhil: yes i still use it |
| 12:06.20 | sicelo | all CSSU are frozen. when was the last update? |
| 12:06.24 | KotCzarny | cssu-devel is where the dragons live |
| 12:07.49 | Wikiwide | /me is installing zzztop |
| 12:08.52 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik (~kabouik@lns-bzn-37-82-253-53-3.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 12:10.14 | FatPhil | make sure you read the license: you can't use zzztop unless you have a beard. or your name is beard. (joking, obvs!) |
| 12:10.55 | Wikiwide | Neat! What is DMA? And shouldn't zzztop depend on perl? |
| 12:12.19 | *** part/#maemo Wikiwide (~Wikiwide@Maemo/community/ex-council/Wikiwide) |
| 12:15.41 | FatPhil | isn't perl standard? In which case you do you need to list it as a dep? |
| 12:16.11 | FatPhil | My disclaimer is that I never made the package, I only ever wrote the script itself. |
| 12:16.23 | KotCzarny | depends on distro |
| 12:16.50 | KotCzarny | most debian-like ones need perl, and its in bare-minimum set |
| 12:17.14 | FatPhil | maemo's debian-ish, and I think debian has that cop-out for not listing every darn thing. |
| 12:22.44 | FatPhil | OK, so I guess I should now go -thumb, maybe the deps issues I'm seeing are because of -testing. |
| 12:22.57 | KotCzarny | nope |
| 12:23.07 | KotCzarny | thumb is using testing anyway |
| 12:25.39 | sixwheeledbeast | Does a beard allow you package it up for Maemo? |
| 12:26.51 | sixwheeledbeast | ~zzztop |
| 12:26.52 | infobot | methinks zzztop is - the better and even FOSS powertop - http://wiki.maemo.org/Zzztop |
| 12:28.52 | FatPhil | OK, the thumb installer link on the thumb wiki page failed in HAM complaining the enabler wasn't available. But I have some blinking [i] in teh status bar, so have the option of clicky-clicky-fail or cmdline headscratch... |
| 12:29.22 | sixwheeledbeast | I would say they are all frozen. CSSU-T != CSSU-S due to the additional FOSS replacement packages that where forced upon you if you went Testing route. |
| 12:29.43 | sixwheeledbeast | nicocam etc |
| 12:32.09 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~venemo@fedora/Venemo) |
| 12:44.11 | FatPhil | anyone quickly know how a directory can tell nginx to enable automatic index generation in the absense of an index.html file? |
| 12:44.16 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~venemo@fedora/Venemo) |
| 12:57.21 | bencoh | FatPhil: are you actually looking for a .htaccess equivalent? |
| 12:57.27 | bencoh | (well, in that respect at least) |
| 13:03.18 | *** join/#maemo florian_kc (~florian_k@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 13:06.10 | FatPhil | bencoh: basically, yes. I don't want to have to (as root) change the website conf just because I want to change the autoindex on|off property for a few ad hoc directories (that root needn't even have knowledge about) |
| 13:08.10 | FatPhil | no amount of googling persuades me this is possible. |
| 13:12.09 | bencoh | looks like try_files is your best bet |
| 13:12.36 | bencoh | (but then you can't allow/disallow it in a per-directory file) |
| 13:13.30 | FatPhil | yeah, I think I'd have to create a script with a unique extension to generate an index on the fly, and drop one of those in every directory I wanted to make indexable. |
| 13:13.41 | bencoh | tbh that's the main (only?) reason I still have apache for user directories and the like |
| 13:14.09 | FatPhil | I just migrated my web server, and decided to convert from apache to nginx in the process |
| 13:15.08 | bencoh | I wonder if writing a module for that would work |
| 13:15.57 | bencoh | (one that'd check a .index file) |
| 13:16.01 | *** join/#maemo sunshavi (~user@190.239.244.220) |
| 13:17.04 | bencoh | you could always patch the autoindex_module I guess, but ... |
| 13:19.01 | FatPhil | It's easier to write a little script that will just regenerate a real static index.html each time I add a new file there. KISS! |
| 13:19.12 | KotCzarny | it's easier to move back to apache |
| 13:19.13 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 13:19.37 | FatPhil | I could proxy certain sites to apache, I guess |
| 13:19.56 | FatPhil | no, no, no! kill the hideous apache! |
| 13:19.59 | KotCzarny | or thttpd |
| 13:20.13 | bencoh | poor apache |
| 13:20.15 | KotCzarny | or even khttpd :P |
| 13:20.40 | bencoh | *kof*kof* |
| 13:21.02 | FatPhil | Can anyone explain why the available espeak is version ...22, and it depends on libespeak (=...22), but the libespeak that's available is ...27? |
| 13:21.17 | KotCzarny | repos salsa |
| 13:21.33 | KotCzarny | apt-cache policy for the rescue |
| 13:21.46 | KotCzarny | *to the |
| 13:27.53 | FatPhil | quickly changes the root passwd from rootme to rootmenow, for added security |
| 13:29.03 | FatPhil | just did a reboot and I now have -thumb packages, and -power53 kernel |
| 13:29.32 | KotCzarny | keep in mind only packages with 'thumb' in version are recompiled |
| 13:29.42 | KotCzarny | the rest comes from cssu-testing |
| 13:31.53 | FatPhil | I'll restore some of my old config, will even move the SIM to it, and check that everything "kinda works". And if it does, I'll reflash, and do the whole procedure again - this time missing out the steps that were not useful. |
| 13:32.18 | bencoh | :) |
| 13:32.19 | FatPhil | Recording the steps as I go. BEcause I will want this information in 5 years time! |
| 13:32.25 | KotCzarny | or just go full cmdline |
| 13:32.26 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 13:34.37 | FatPhil | I'm not 100% convinced I really need HAM at all. I'm perfectly happy with apt-{cache,get}. |
| 13:34.55 | FatPhil | perfectly happy to vi sources.list.d/... too |
| 13:35.11 | FatPhil | I'm not a very gui person. |
| 13:37.03 | bencoh | you're not alone :) |
| 13:37.09 | KotCzarny | keep in mind that HAM keeps it's own repos list in separate file |
| 13:39.25 | *** join/#maemo florian_kc (~florian_k@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 13:40.09 | *** join/#maemo jskarvad_ (jskarvad@redhat/jskarvad) |
| 13:44.48 | FatPhil | KotCzarny: there's one under sources.list.d with HAM's name on it |
| 13:45.23 | KotCzarny | that might be it, you can try editing it and seeing if changes show in ham |
| 13:46.08 | FatPhil | I think HAM just falls back onto core apt- helpers, so even if you confuse HAM about what repos it can manage, it should be OK with the actual package lists. |
| 13:47.04 | FatPhil | and I don't need HAM to manage things I can manage using vi, so everyone's happy :) |
| 13:48.29 | bencoh | :) |
| 13:48.52 | KotCzarny | but if you play that way, be aware you can get ass raped later when you expect it least |
| 13:48.53 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 13:49.09 | KotCzarny | thats why it has to play nice with ham too |
| 13:49.22 | bencoh | last time I launched HAM was only to see if it still works / for the spit of it |
| 13:49.34 | bencoh | I didn't really use it |
| 13:50.37 | FatPhil | I've been using FAP for the last 5 years, so I'm clearly in a high-risk group! |
| 13:52.34 | FatPhil | is tcc the only compiler available? |
| 13:53.50 | bencoh | I'd suggest compiling in scratchbox if you need anything else to be honest |
| 13:54.34 | FatPhil | I used to have GCC packages installed waaaay back. Probably lost it 5 years ago when I moved onto the now-being-retired hardware and decided to go CSSU-Thumb. |
| 13:54.37 | bencoh | (although we do have gcc in extras-devel) |
| 13:57.42 | FatPhil | ooooh - maybe I should add that in my own sources.list.d file, just to try to break things! (as I said, I'll be reflashing this by the weekend) |
| 13:58.53 | *** join/#maemo freemangordon (~ivo@46.249.74.23) |
| 13:59.03 | FatPhil | o/ freemangordon |
| 13:59.25 | freemangordon | FatPhil: hi! |
| 13:59.33 | *** join/#maemo FatPhil (~luser@devuan/community/FatPhil) |
| 14:03.09 | sicelo | FatPhil: devuan? then you might like Maemo Leste :) |
| 14:03.40 | KotCzarny | FatPhil: you can use my dev-chroot |
| 14:03.56 | KotCzarny | it provides scratchbox based env to any arm device (n900 included) |
| 14:04.32 | KotCzarny | so you can install packages into chroot without f*cking up the device |
| 14:04.43 | KotCzarny | https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=98762 |
| 14:05.23 | FatPhil | I never was much of a fan of scratchbox. Did scratchbox2 ever get any traction, that was technologically better? |
| 14:05.25 | KotCzarny | and once pkg is built, you can install it to the device |
| 14:05.49 | FatPhil | it's been a very long time since I did any development for the thing. I just use it. |
| 14:05.53 | KotCzarny | scratchbox is mostly for crosscompiling and testing env |
| 14:05.54 | FatPhil | However, I use it as a computer. |
| 14:06.13 | KotCzarny | i've ripped most of the parts and made it run native on arm boxes |
| 14:06.54 | FatPhil | sicelo: yeah, gave up on debian after 15+ years, and devuan was the most sensible place to go. Been on it pretty much since the beginning. |
| 14:07.18 | FatPhil | KotCzarny: Certainly I'll get back to you on that, once I have this stable as my daily device. |
| 14:07.47 | KotCzarny | there is no installation, just unpack on some ext* fs |
| 14:07.58 | KotCzarny | and startup script is included |
| 14:08.05 | KotCzarny | bbl |
| 14:09.36 | *** join/#maemo saidinesh5 (~quassel@minad.de) |
| 14:11.01 | *** join/#maemo m4lvin (~m4lvin@w4eg.de) |
| 14:42.32 | FatPhil | are there no lightweight emacslike editors? I can vi, but I'd rather not. |
| 14:46.49 | bencoh | https://bellard.org/qemacs/ maybe |
| 14:46.58 | bencoh | (I have never tried it though) |
| 14:47.28 | bencoh | it actually sounds perfect for n900 tbh |
| 14:47.38 | FatPhil | I used to have that but it crashed a lot |
| 14:47.43 | bencoh | oh :( |
| 14:48.29 | sicelo | KotCzarny: is there such SB chroot for x86 perhaps? i think it'd be nice to have it on the X40 |
| 14:49.35 | bencoh | sicelo: you could just install sb as it is |
| 14:49.57 | bencoh | the maemo version, I mean |
| 15:02.40 | FatPhil | now checks to see if HAM can see the qemacs-nox that was made available by a separate sources.list.d file... |
| 15:08.27 | *** join/#maemo nast (~nast@176-106-200-222.point.lviv.ua) |
| 15:11.46 | sunshavi | FatPhil: Do You want to try emacs-23? |
| 15:16.03 | FatPhil | I prefer 23 to 24, certainly |
| 15:16.33 | sunshavi | i am going to share the deb in a few mins. Let me extract it from device itself |
| 15:17.49 | FatPhil | given that this setup will be nuked in a couple of days, I'll happily test it out. However, by the very nature of how I got this system set up earlier today, it shouldn't be considered a stock build. |
| 15:19.34 | FatPhil | HAM's really beginning to piss be off - every time I go back to the main menu screen, it checks for updates. |
| 15:20.31 | FatPhil | however, it spotted the new qemacs, so wasn't too confused by my apt configs |
| 15:22.03 | bencoh | why do you still use it btw? |
| 15:22.31 | FatPhil | my phone is a terminal to my home machines, where I have loads of tmux sessions |
| 15:23.07 | FatPhil | it's a portable xterm, basically. almost everything i do is text-based, and most of that is on remote machines. |
| 15:23.17 | bencoh | :) |
| 15:23.24 | bencoh | same here, pretty much |
| 15:23.29 | FatPhil | It ain't a phone, that's just a minor part of its functionality. |
| 15:23.31 | bencoh | (still use it as a gps though) |
| 15:23.34 | bencoh | (and a phone) |
| 15:23.55 | FatPhil | g/f has the n9 for GPS functionality - maps is the worst thing in the universe on n900 |
| 15:24.03 | FatPhil | s/n9/n950/ |
| 15:24.19 | sunshavi | FatPhil: https://transfer.sh/bDHkv/emacs_23.4-1_armel.deb |
| 15:24.21 | bencoh | I use marble |
| 15:24.32 | bencoh | (slightly patched) |
| 15:24.57 | sicelo | funny enough, for my uses, Ovi Maps suits me perfectly |
| 15:24.59 | FatPhil | I see "MArble - Virtual Globe" and "Marble Maps" |
| 15:25.13 | bencoh | I never got myself to write a google transit plugin for marble, but I really should |
| 15:25.18 | bencoh | marble maps it is :) |
| 15:25.33 | FatPhil | hm,, not seeing a compiler still |
| 15:25.37 | bencoh | at that point I think most non-OviMaps users went for modrana though |
| 15:25.41 | bencoh | (was it modrana?) |
| 15:26.07 | sicelo | yes, modrana |
| 15:26.25 | sicelo | still in active development too, afaik |
| 15:26.41 | bencoh | gcc-4.6: |
| 15:26.45 | bencoh | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:26.54 | bencoh | it's in extra-devels |
| 15:30.15 | FatPhil | ah, possibly pebcak |
| 15:30.35 | FatPhil | i didn't delete cached .bins before apt update |
| 15:30.44 | FatPhil | but now have |
| 15:30.44 | bencoh | cached .bins? |
| 15:31.12 | bencoh | I only edit sources.list* before running apt-get update, but ... ;) |
| 15:31.36 | FatPhil | /var/cache/apt/*.bin not sure if it really makes a difference, but I did have a failed search a few minutes back |
| 15:34.19 | FatPhil | sunshavi: wget says connection reset by peer |
| 15:34.57 | *** join/#maemo Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 15:35.03 | FatPhil | o/ Pali |
| 15:36.02 | bencoh | sounds like a ssl issue |
| 15:37.37 | FatPhil | gets to my PC ok, just the phone didn't like it. |
| 15:39.04 | bencoh | wget uses a pretty old version of openssl on n900, iirc |
| 15:39.24 | bencoh | (unless somebody moved it to the openssl 1.x version, but I doubt it) |
| 15:39.44 | bencoh | that means you have no TLS>1.0 support |
| 15:40.11 | FatPhil | yeah, the old phone certain;y couldn't see half of the modern web :( |
| 15:41.18 | bencoh | at that point we should probably keep the openssl0.9.8 libraries in a -compat package, upgrade main openssl package to 1.x, and rebuild packages depending on it where needed/possible |
| 15:41.42 | bencoh | as for web browsing, one could use a ssl/tls proxy (using said openssl 1.x) |
| 15:42.12 | FatPhil | sounds too advanced for little old me. |
| 15:42.23 | FatPhil | I'll just shake my fist and shout at a cloud! |
| 15:42.41 | bencoh | that's pretty much what every one does these days, yeah :) |
| 15:43.40 | bencoh | (for hope / dev, see maemo-lest :) |
| 15:43.43 | bencoh | leste* |
| 15:44.13 | FatPhil | unpacking emacs ... |
| 15:45.37 | FatPhil | I'm due in a pub soon, wherein I will be appending a few beer reviews to a file that contains a thousand or so, that's one of the prime jobs for the phone - emacs to add, grep to check whether I need to add or not. |
| 15:47.15 | FatPhil | no space left on device :( |
| 15:47.50 | sunshavi | mmm. try emacs-24 download it from maemo packages |
| 15:48.00 | sunshavi | that pkg have been optified |
| 15:49.01 | sunshavi | for dired to work You would need some modifications on ur dot emacs |
| 15:49.44 | FatPhil | the .emacs I wrote back in 1989 no longer works anyway, I've given up hope! |
| 15:50.17 | FatPhil | criminy - I see emacs 25 in my apt-cache search |
| 15:50.21 | sunshavi | i am going to try to optify emacs-23 tonight |
| 15:50.55 | FatPhil | if you could, that would be fantastic! (despite me thinking that the way nokia did the optifying was the most stupid way possible) |
| 15:52.02 | sunshavi | but actually emmc today is speedier than emmc on n900 (i was thinking about that before modem failed) ;) |
| 15:53.04 | KotCzarny | sicelo: yeah, just install scratchbox for x86, you will need some sb hacks nokia did to it anyway |
| 15:53.34 | FatPhil | before they even invented optifying, I detected space was a problem, implemented a KISS solution, and filed a bug. So they rolled their own braindead one because apparently one of the SSW team had just discovered bind mounts, and wanted to use them for everything, no matter how inappropriate. |
| 15:53.47 | *** join/#maemo xmn (~xmn@user-0cdft2n.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 15:54.16 | sunshavi | FatPhil: THat perhaps could be helpul for maemo-leste |
| 15:57.58 | xes | bencoh: done. certbot fixed and certificates renewed |
| 15:59.33 | FatPhil | ah, I was more after an emacs-nox than a full emacs, doesn't seem one's available. |
| 16:01.30 | bencoh | xes: yay, thanks \o/ |
| 16:01.50 | bencoh | FatPhil: I wonder if installing from GUI would work now that certs are fixed |
| 16:03.55 | sunshavi | FatPhil: I have never tried compiling zile. But I believe It should work |
| 16:04.08 | FatPhil | sunshavi: zile's my emacs-lite at home |
| 16:05.22 | FatPhil | bencoh: I can give it a go, but I'm not convinced that was the problem. As I said, my g/f had exactly the same failure a couple of years back |
| 16:05.53 | FatPhil | erk, I'm not enjoying qemacs much, it's trying to be too clever |
| 16:06.12 | sunshavi | I would need to undust my debian knowledge for getting sources and compiling it in the chroot (kotczarny-authored) |
| 16:06.26 | bencoh | FatPhil: ah, strange, but alright |
| 16:08.59 | FatPhil | note to self - still need to install marble maps... |
| 16:09.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>[18 Jul 2019 10:21:48] <FatPhil> YEah, it's a shame that there isn't just a FIASCO with the CSSU on it.<< nobody made one |
| 16:09.24 | FatPhil | but I'm now being summoned to the pub... |
| 16:09.32 | FatPhil | o/ DocScrutinizer05! |
| 16:09.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | you need a clean install without lots of config |
| 16:09.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | to wrap it into a FIASCO |
| 16:10.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi FatPhil :-) |
| 16:10.55 | FatPhil | DocScrutinizer05: yeah, this is a new body I'm flashing today, old one's got too old to be reliable. |
| 16:11.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's however a FIASCO with BM pre-installed so after flashing that you instantly could restore a BM backup of a CSSU system |
| 16:11.29 | FatPhil | BM? |
| 16:11.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bm |
| 16:11.34 | infobot | backupmenu is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975, or one-click install handling dependency issues: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/BM.install |
| 16:12.56 | FatPhil | aha, yup, I installed that today for the first time. |
| 16:13.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | it basically means: you don't have a disk image of CSSU but you got a disk image of a system with tar so you can restore a tarball CSSU |
| 16:13.51 | FatPhil | sigh, emacs24's unusable garbage, as expected :( |
| 16:14.33 | FatPhil | I don't think I've installed a non--nox emacs since they made the split wayyyy back |
| 16:15.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: ~listvalues cloud-7 ; or similar |
| 16:15.44 | FatPhil | and dpkg -P makes the problem go away, right where was I - some king of maps... |
| 16:15.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listvalues lazy*flashing |
| 16:16.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listvalues lazy |
| 16:16.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listvalues cloud-7*lazy |
| 16:16.42 | FatPhil | I looked at the lazy flashing script - it's basically a wrapper for 2 lines |
| 16:17.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, plus timing and user guidance |
| 16:17.17 | FatPhil | anyway, gonna install marble in the pub... |
| 16:17.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | plus stealth downloading |
| 16:17.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | plus ld_preload hackery |
| 16:35.30 | *** join/#maemo infobot (ibot@c-174-52-60-165.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 16:35.30 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | "firmware" see ~lf (or ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher) sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_maemo/latest.log.html | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
| 16:35.30 | *** mode/#maemo [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 16:37.17 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~venemo@fedora/Venemo) |
| 16:37.35 | sunshavi | FatPhil: configure: error: Package requirements (bdw-gc >= 7.2) were not met: {when compiling zile} |
| 16:45.32 | bencoh | sunshavi: I uploaded zile 2.3 (wheezy) to extras |
| 16:46.02 | bencoh | let's see if it builds there (I checked locally and it worked) |
| 17:01.06 | FatPhil | bollox - pub wifi doesn't work on the new phone, gonna have to wait... |
| 17:01.53 | sicelo | new phone = n900? |
| 17:04.07 | FatPhil | sunshavi: I presume bdw-gc is just the boehm gc, so should be a reasonably boring build - it's decades old. |
| 17:05.12 | FatPhil | new phone = n900; old phone (what I'm typing on now) = n900; old old phone = n900 |
| 17:05.39 | FatPhil | they last ~ 5 years |
| 17:06.18 | FatPhil | still have a couple spare, plus scavenged parts from the "dead" ones. |
| 17:07.27 | FatPhil | in fact I have a whole graveyard of spares, apart from mobos (usb=fail) and touchscreens (scratches) |
| 17:07.52 | FatPhil | when people broke theirs, I went on the scrounge |
| 17:11.01 | FatPhil | I'm still on the scrounge for an A/V cable - none of them have come with it, apart for 1, and I lost that one. |
| 17:28.10 | KotCzarny | my n900 is almost 10 years old |
| 17:28.13 | KotCzarny | still with me |
| 17:28.14 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 17:43.58 | sixwheeledbeast | same |
| 17:46.59 | *** join/#maemo i336 (~i336@101.161.136.235) |
| 17:48.28 | sicelo | me too. :) |
| 17:48.36 | *** join/#maemo saidinesh5 (~quassel@minad.de) |
| 17:54.19 | *** join/#maemo florian (~florian_k@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 18:03.15 | sunshavi | FatPhil: r u using the zile uploaded by bencoh? |
| 18:15.06 | *** join/#maemo saidinesh5 (~quassel@minad.de) |
| 18:55.02 | sunshavi | bencoh: your uploaded zile does not appears on http://maemo.org/packages for downloading manually |
| 19:26.18 | sunshavi | bencoh: version 2.3 compiles fine |
| 19:26.45 | sunshavi | https://transfer.sh/NHD1S/zile_2.3.24-1_armel.deb |
| 19:26.45 | sunshavi | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:40.05 | FatPhil | ok, found a pub with working wifi |
| 19:40.25 | FatPhil | was a lot of effort... ;-) |
| 19:41.16 | FatPhil | marble is now giving hellawierd messages that disappear before I can read them |
| 19:41.40 | FatPhil | but unds with a presumed success |
| 19:41.51 | FatPhil | ends |
| 19:43.06 | FatPhil | marble uses OSM? |
| 19:43.56 | FatPhil | it looks like OSM, as I'm the most active local OSM contributor |
| 19:45.14 | FatPhil | g/f now wants marble! |
| 19:45.31 | bencoh | FatPhil: marble can use several map providers, the most used/useful one is probably marble |
| 19:45.53 | FatPhil | this is OSM, I recognise it |
| 19:47.37 | FatPhil | fuxtix, this is measurably, scientifically, 100x better than the bundled crap |
| 19:48.12 | FatPhil | I always knew the bundled crap was crap but I never knew by what factor |
| 19:49.04 | FatPhil | sorry if I'm crude, it is the 5th pub of the evening. |
| 19:49.17 | *** join/#maemo drrty (drrty@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/drrty) |
| 19:52.37 | FatPhil | Nokia spent billions on 3rd rate bottom of the barrel subcontractors, that's a fact. if they'd have got thr marble guys on board (a) the marble guys would be way richer; (b) everyone who got the phone would have had a better experience. |
| 19:53.02 | FatPhil | sorry, getting ranty |
| 19:57.48 | FatPhil | marble is *FANTASTIC* thank you thank you thank you |
| 19:58.51 | FatPhil | not yet turned GPS on, just as a mapping app it's as good as OSM is on my (mini) PC |
| 19:59.32 | FatPhil | no pint now, I'm in a cellar bar (with good wifi) |
| 20:02.14 | FatPhil | Hmmm, OK, things are confusing - settings says GPS is enabled, but I don't see the Jodrell Bank icon in the status bar |
| 20:02.59 | KotCzarny | open source apps/projects come out of the passion of hundreds if not thousands of people |
| 20:05.35 | KotCzarny | and whatever you say about nokia, they also did awesome projects |
| 20:06.37 | KotCzarny | one of them being n900 and maemo itself |
| 20:07.28 | KotCzarny | many of bundled apps are 3rd party things thrown in the mix 'just to fill the holes' |
| 20:08.45 | FatPhil | I've not had a job in the last 10 years that wasn't for an open source company - by which I mean one which wrote OSS, and gambled wheter they could make money from it |
| 20:09.31 | FatPhil | totally in love with OSS |
| 20:10.18 | FatPhil | some companies have done well from it, others have gone bust. but the one that wen bust was the one that jumped into bed with microsoft. |
| 20:10.31 | FatPhil | (nokia) |
| 20:11.30 | KotCzarny | nah |
| 20:11.33 | KotCzarny | it was inside job |
| 20:11.49 | KotCzarny | elopocalypse |
| 20:12.44 | FatPhil | yup, and I have the inside story... |
| 20:13.37 | FatPhil | nokia outsourced all their email to microsoft, which was handled in amsterdam, we looked at the headers, all the way back in 2008 |
| 20:14.06 | *** join/#maemo saidinesh5 (~quassel@minad.de) |
| 20:14.23 | FatPhil | the MS servers applied line-wrap to the kernel patches we were attempting to sen to each others on internal mailing lists |
| 20:15.01 | FatPhil | as you can probably understand, patch (git apply) doesn't like linewrap much |
| 20:15.23 | KotCzarny | normal mail servers dont touch mails themselves |
| 20:15.40 | KotCzarny | apart from filtering and forwarding |
| 20:15.58 | FatPhil | but MS wa sniffing *all* internal nokia mails froam before the elopocalypse |
| 20:16.15 | KotCzarny | what normal company outsources internal mail |
| 20:16.18 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 20:17.22 | FatPhil | I'm sure there are reasons. Cost-cutting being the name of one. |
| 20:17.24 | KotCzarny | which is a pity. i wonder if m$ at least got their money back |
| 20:17.44 | FatPhil | you can discharge staff if you outsource |
| 20:17.58 | FatPhil | and shareholders love cutting staff |
| 20:18.10 | FatPhil | good for shareholder value |
| 20:19.06 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik (~kabouik@2a01:e35:2fd3:5030:ebd:59c2:cdd:e2f8) |
| 20:20.06 | KotCzarny | not good if in the long run they lose moneys |
| 20:21.38 | FatPhil | I liiiiike money, do you liiiike money? |
| 20:21.54 | FatPhil | (idiocracy pseudo-quote) |
| 20:22.55 | KotCzarny | '..do you like losing all moneys you've gained??' |
| 20:23.45 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~venemo@fedora/Venemo) |
| 20:24.04 | KotCzarny | nity nite. bed time |
| 20:24.29 | sicelo | what normal company outsources internal mail >> outlook 365. many do this nowadays. not sure it the thing is still called outlook 365, but MS recommends companies to use that instead of Exchange nowadays |
| 20:25.02 | FatPhil | exactly. not worth having interlan expertise, as internal expertise = cost |
| 20:25.17 | FatPhil | s/lan/nal/ |
| 20:26.15 | FatPhil | when we detected out patches were being mangles, out of the 30 core core team sais "we can set up our own mail server" |
| 20:26.33 | FatPhil | out=our, sorry still drinking |
| 20:26.59 | FatPhil | no point correcting errors, there are more |
| 21:24.40 | *** join/#maemo Oksana (~Wikiwide@Maemo/community/ex-council/Wikiwide) |
| 21:27.34 | sixwheeledbeast | office 365 isnt it? |
| 21:29.50 | bencoh | mmmh, I'm actually wondering whether extra-cauldrons (the build automation) works ... |
| 21:30.10 | bencoh | I uploaded a package to drop.maemo.org, I can download it back from there |
| 21:30.20 | bencoh | but it hasn't trigger any build process yet |
| 21:30.34 | bencoh | (I uploaded it 5h ago) |
| 21:30.41 | bencoh | that's .... odd |
| 21:31.09 | bencoh | it doesn't show in https://www.mail-archive.com/extras-cauldron-builds@garage.maemo.org/ either |
| 21:31.53 | bencoh | xes: if you have access to cauldron / have any idea how it is supposed to work, could you please check what's wrong with it? |
| 21:32.08 | bencoh | (oh and, I uploaded it in the right order, ie .dsc last) |
| 21:37.32 | sixwheeledbeast | I recall it was a cronjob every hour? |
| 22:02.32 | Maxdamantus | My compny outsources email to Office 365. |
| 22:14.35 | bencoh | sixwheeledbeast: repository import should be a cronjob every hour yeah (at least that's what I gathered from wiki page) |
| 22:15.12 | bencoh | and iirc build process should trigger upon upload |
| 22:15.27 | bencoh | but anyway, package was uploaded 6h ago |
| 22:16.04 | sixwheeledbeast | Can't remember how I uploaded them from the dev env, it's been years. |
| 22:35.11 | bencoh | I uploaded a few the same way |
| 22:41.20 | *** join/#maemo Milhouse (~Milhouse@kodi/staff/milhouse) |
| 22:44.12 | sixwheeledbeast | Ah the web extras assistant on garage.m.o |
| 22:57.29 | sunshavi | bencoh: I uploaded some years ago tcc for n800 and it was almost inmediately |
| 22:58.27 | xes | bencoh: i will give a look. Have you any package to check? |
| 23:05.28 | sunshavi | xes: zile |
| 23:05.49 | sunshavi | i think |
| 23:16.50 | *** join/#maemo Oksanaa (95ab90a9@Maemo/community/ex-council/Wikiwide) |
| 23:17.32 | Oksanaa | Of course, my phone is moving slowly as a snail today, after reboot. At least, systemui drop-down shows up when I press the power button... |
| 23:17.51 | buZz | Oksanaa == spam bot |
| 23:19.25 | Oksanaa | buZz == equation bot |
| 23:21.48 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik (~kabouik@2a01:e35:2fd3:5030:ebd:59c2:cdd:e2f8) |
| 23:36.38 | xes | [2019-07-18 23:08:46] Processing package zile 2.3.21-2. Uploader: bencoh, builder: builder1 |
| 23:36.40 | xes | [2019-07-18 23:08:51] Building zile 2.3.21-2 for target 'maemo-fremantle-armel-extras-devel' |