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| 08:14.44 | brolin_empey | hmw_metalab: IANAL but I do not think you have to worry about mirroring Maemo stuff considering that it is aged close to a decade. |
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| 08:16.53 | hmw_metalab | Thanks, I guessed so. I just wanted to hear, if there have been any issues or not. |
| 08:17.12 | hmw_metalab | That thing still rocks. |
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| 17:09.31 | timeless | anyone here deal w/ rack mount UPS systems? |
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| 17:16.53 | sixwheeledbeast | in what way? |
| 17:17.08 | timeless | we have one and one of its batteries failed |
| 17:17.15 | timeless | so i figured i'd ask some basic questions |
| 17:17.20 | timeless | but the web has kind of given me the answers |
| 17:17.48 | timeless | namely: (1) don't store UPS batteries w/o plugging them in, it's bad for their health -- I think I knew that at one point but long since forgot |
| 17:18.00 | sixwheeledbeast | ask away i deal with that type of stuff yea |
| 17:18.17 | KotCzarny | ya, leadacid batteries are selfdischarging |
| 17:18.44 | KotCzarny | and they have best life when being fully charged |
| 17:18.56 | KotCzarny | basically same as car accu |
| 17:20.37 | KotCzarny | they CAN be stored, but you should be charging them to full once a month |
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| 17:21.15 | timeless | are all battery packs basically rebuilt/recycled exteriors w/ fresh batteries? |
| 17:21.42 | KotCzarny | define 'all battery packs' |
| 17:21.55 | timeless | https://www.amazon.ca/Smart-UPS-SUA3000RM2U-Battery-Cartridge/dp/B00C80UTSS |
| 17:22.07 | timeless | "battery cartridge"? |
| 17:22.15 | KotCzarny | hehe |
| 17:22.19 | timeless | i.e. a pluggable thing that someone adds into a rack mount ups? |
| 17:22.46 | KotCzarny | same as disk drive cartdridges |
| 17:23.25 | KotCzarny | you can try fiddling etc, but in pro world they just replace whole modules |
| 17:23.39 | timeless | i'm not interested in fiddling |
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| 17:23.52 | timeless | just trying to get a sense of whether i'm almost always getting a "rebuilt" thing |
| 17:23.56 | timeless | "refurbished" |
| 17:24.09 | KotCzarny | '1 new' |
| 17:26.02 | KotCzarny | there is a chance it's some kind of noname replacement |
| 17:33.38 | bencoh | a recycled exterior isn't so muchof an issue. the real problem with noname is that you cannot really trust them regarding battery capacity / state |
| 17:36.43 | sixwheeledbeast | Mostly they are designed for SLA aka AGM batteries, these are similar tech to flooded car batteries but are designed for an application. |
| 17:38.34 | sixwheeledbeast | In a UPS you would have 12V C20 batteries these have an expected life of 5 years in float applications like a UPS. They are generally packaged for your UPS into "cartridges" |
| 17:38.44 | bencoh | talking about that, I wonder if/when DC power input will ever become standard on servers |
| 17:39.11 | bencoh | the whole AC/DC/AC/DC thing with UPS is just plain silly |
| 17:39.35 | timeless | I think that some of the bigger companies are doing that for themselves |
| 17:39.39 | KotCzarny | you would have to start selling 12V generators |
| 17:39.40 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 17:39.55 | sixwheeledbeast | I build my own "high quality" cartridges for UPS I general find the cartridges overpriced for what they are. |
| 17:40.00 | timeless | so, is there something i should do to try to "Vet" my vendor? |
| 17:40.11 | bencoh | KotCzarny: we're already using 12 batteries ... |
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| 17:40.26 | bencoh | 12V* |
| 17:40.40 | bencoh | sixwheeledbeast: what do you make those of? |
| 17:40.52 | KotCzarny | yeah, but to save on conversions, you would have to provide 12V generators too |
| 17:41.21 | sixwheeledbeast | DC power would require much greater cost due to increased copper size between components. |
| 17:41.42 | bencoh | sixwheeledbeast: even with top-of-the-rack UPSes? |
| 17:41.45 | KotCzarny | swb: but you would save in long term? |
| 17:42.12 | sixwheeledbeast | Not necessarily depends on the installation. |
| 17:42.38 | sixwheeledbeast | I build my UPS cartridges with Yuasa's |
| 17:46.56 | sixwheeledbeast | You can get the double sided adhesive to stick them together if you build them generally from most places. At a push duct tape does a decent job. |
| 17:49.01 | sixwheeledbeast | Also you have to think about redundancy when it comes to a full DC rack. |
| 17:51.31 | bencoh | dual-supply DC/DC doesn't sound impossible (think consumer electronics) but I wouldn't know about that power level |
| 17:58.23 | sixwheeledbeast | timeless: looking at the model you posted a quick search I could "self refurbish" the cartridge for around equivalent of $190CAN with Yuasa branded |
| 17:59.11 | timeless | sixwheeledbeast: so, roughly ~$200 is the actual value of what i'm paying for? |
| 17:59.36 | sixwheeledbeast | minus the labour and shipping of doing the job yes |
| 17:59.38 | timeless | wonders about disposal/recycling costs |
| 17:59.57 | sixwheeledbeast | I also recycle my own batteries and get money back there. |
| 18:00.06 | sixwheeledbeast | They are full of lead |
| 18:00.57 | KotCzarny | basically same rules as car accu |
| 18:01.02 | sixwheeledbeast | I suppose they are giving you a cartridge casing too no idea how much that would be worth. |
| 18:03.56 | sixwheeledbeast | TBH the solid cartridge type like that are the easiest to "refurbish" they just plug together. No need to built a battery pack up and stick batteries together like the desktop ones. |
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| 18:07.52 | sixwheeledbeast | Example, RBC7 pack $170US I build my own for $110, 10 minute job. |
| 18:09.01 | KotCzarny | 19:23 #maemo timeless > i'm not interested in fiddling |
| 18:09.02 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 18:09.12 | timeless | I'm a software guy! |
| 18:09.41 | KotCzarny | there is a chance you dont need any soldering |
| 18:09.51 | timeless | is definitely not doing soldering |
| 18:09.57 | timeless | that's 5-10 bridges too far |
| 18:10.06 | KotCzarny | just some connectors and physical placement |
| 18:10.27 | timeless | right now i'm trying to figure out what to do to make the ups management software happy |
| 18:10.28 | timeless | right now it |
| 18:10.36 | KotCzarny | unless those cartridges have some anti-fiddler measures similar to printer's cartridges |
| 18:10.37 | timeless | 's sending me emails every couple of minutes screaming |
| 18:10.57 | KotCzarny | checked the manual? |
| 18:12.08 | sixwheeledbeast | Yours is a RBC43 by the way. As I say there is no soldering you may need a screwdriver at the worst. 10 minutes. |
| 18:13.33 | sixwheeledbeast | The only caveat is working out what size Faston connections you have and then it will plug together. |
| 18:14.39 | timeless | sixwheeledbeast: so, basically things that look like this? https://www.batterysharks.com/APC-RBC43-p/apc-rbc43_ups12-5.5_x8.htm |
| 18:16.03 | sixwheeledbeast | timeless: yes there is 8 of those in a RBC43. As I say I buy Yuasa (good brand) tho. |
| 18:16.42 | KotCzarny | yuase were doing car accus for honda |
| 18:16.47 | KotCzarny | *yuasa |
| 18:16.56 | timeless | http://yuasabattery.ca/ |
| 18:16.57 | KotCzarny | the factory mounted ones |
| 18:17.01 | timeless | http://yuasabattery.ca/advanced-search/ -> 500 |
| 18:17.03 | timeless | (so reassuring) |
| 18:17.16 | KotCzarny | yeah, basic stuff as sizes, terminal positioning etc |
| 18:17.18 | sixwheeledbeast | They are market leader for batteries |
| 18:18.18 | sixwheeledbeast | As I say I can get model numbers for the Yuasa's but I would need to know what size faston connections. |
| 18:21.45 | sixwheeledbeast | If it's Type A 4.7mm (Faston 4.7) then you looking at 8x "RE5-12" |
| 18:21.57 | timeless | https://clinicopc.com/store/index.php/component/virtuemart/?keyword=rbc43&view=category&option=com_virtuemart&virtuemart_category_id=557&Itemid= |
| 18:22.02 | timeless | "Our Shop is currently down for maintenance. Please check back again soon." |
| 18:23.27 | timeless | (great, i think i broke my apc management software) |
| 18:23.41 | KotCzarny | at least it will shut up |
| 18:23.42 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 18:23.50 | timeless | (i guess that's one way ... yeah, that) |
| 18:24.38 | sixwheeledbeast | Also yuasabattery.ca is not a genuine GS Yuasa site BTW |
| 18:24.46 | timeless | of course not |
| 18:24.49 | timeless | sighs |
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| 18:27.51 | sixwheeledbeast | https://www.batterycanada.com/rbc43.asp Not Yuasa but you can see the difference in cost. |
| 18:31.25 | sixwheeledbeast | Seems North America brand Yuasa as GS. Would be these http://www.gsbattery.com/ind-products/PE/PE12V4_5.pdf |
| 18:48.34 | timeless | is this the kind of thing that i can safely understand by watching a single youtube video? |
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| 19:00.23 | sixwheeledbeast | timeless: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SC_SZU3VYs |
| 19:02.01 | timeless | thanks |
| 19:02.08 | timeless | is multi-tasking (poorly) |
| 19:09.29 | timeless | adventure of the day: upgrading the apc card firmware |
| 19:09.54 | timeless | do people use ssh, https, or just good old telnet/ftp/http? |
| 19:10.25 | KotCzarny | screen is handy on flaky links |
| 19:10.52 | timeless | and in general, how do people deal w/ certificates for network appliances? -- the modern world uses short lived automatically issued certificates, which means that loading certificates would require some automatable method (since it's a periodic task) |
| 19:11.48 | sixwheeledbeast | My home ones have USB connection. |
| 19:12.33 | timeless | i think this card has a usb connection but the disclaimer we got for it was "that software is for windows only" |
| 19:13.08 | timeless | we have a AP9630 card... |
| 19:14.33 | sixwheeledbeast | Ditto I still use apcupsd via USB it seems to work with my power mgmt daemon fine |
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| 19:26.58 | timeless | hmm, so after updating the firmware, it says "ups status: unavailable" "online" |
| 19:27.03 | timeless | and "lost communication to ups" |
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| 22:24.23 | timeless | Ok, installing the right pairing of firmware got management working |
| 22:49.50 | timeless | And now i'm back to the stupid software sending me an email every 10 mins complaining the battery is bad |
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