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| 04:02.18 | Wikiwide | Uptime: 22h, so far. So will not have a fresh, out of the charger battery (for kernel power upgrade from v52 to v53) until a few hours later. |
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| 09:39.01 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | "firmware" see ~lf (or ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher) sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_maemo/latest.log.html | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 12:39.20 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | "firmware" see ~lf (or ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher) sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_maemo/latest.log.html | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 16:58.54 | brolin_empey | Maxdamantus: ACK re: BL-5J. |
| 17:02.30 | brolin_empey | For how long are new lithium-ion batteries in proprietary form factors, such as those used by Nokia and Samsung, usually made? I wonder if new batteries for the HTC Dream, the first commercially available computer running Android, from 2008 are still available. |
| 17:06.18 | brolin_empey | I now have an LG G5 running Android OS 8 but unrooted but I cannot move my SIM to it from my Galaxy Note 3 until I convert my microSIM to a nanoSIM. |
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| 17:21.08 | brolin_empey | I do not see any HTC Dream battery (on its own, not included with the computer) on eBay nor my local Craigslist. |
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| 17:24.09 | KotCzarny | go buy next phone even more limited |
| 17:24.19 | KotCzarny | sponsor those who make them |
| 17:24.36 | KotCzarny | then come to old phone channel and complain? |
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| 17:36.00 | brolin_empey | Never mind, I tried different key words on eBay and found new batteries for the HTC Dream for as little as 5 CAD including shipping: |
| 17:36.00 | brolin_empey | https://www.ebay.ca/itm/HTC-DREA160-3-7v-1150mAh-Lithium-Ion-Battery-for-HTC-G1-Black/223310218238?hash=item33fe5383fe:g:nzoAAOSw7wFcLoST:rk:1:pf:0 |
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| 17:46.53 | sixwheeledbeast | More chance of a user replaceable battery being manufactured for longer. |
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| 19:28.29 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | "firmware" see ~lf (or ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher) sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_maemo/latest.log.html | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 20:27.32 | Wikiwide | Kernel power upgrade from v52 to v53: The following packages will be REMOVED: kernel-module-cifs libomxil-ti-components omap3430-dsp-baseimage-ti omap3430-dsp-libraries-ti |
| 20:27.44 | Wikiwide | Is it fine? |
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| 20:34.40 | Wikiwide | Darn /usr/bin/JoikuSpot_Bouncer.ko , interrupting installation with a broken pipe due to trying to overwrite the file... |
| 20:37.25 | Wikiwide | libqt4-bearer-hotfix |
| 20:43.08 | Wikiwide | This GUI "asker" doesn't say new version of kernel correctly. It does say that I have v52, but it says that it's going to install something simple, not v53 |
| 20:49.20 | Wikiwide | Ah, it's double question. If user agrees to flash a simple image, then a second or two later he gets a second question, to flash v53 image. At least, it seems to work, now. |
| 20:50.13 | Wikiwide | But SIGTERM received after Leaving update mode. Is it normal? |
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| 21:17.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | yoghurt sport really now? |
| 21:17.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | isn't that obsolete since ages already? |
| 21:18.22 | KotCzarny | people collect weirder stuff |
| 21:21.42 | Wikiwide | What's weirder, the diversion for it was written under certman |
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| 21:35.33 | Wikiwide | libmaemosec-certman0 |
| 21:35.35 | Wikiwide | /usr/bin/JoikuSpot_Bouncer.ko |
| 21:35.37 | Wikiwide | /lib/modules/2.6.28-omap1/JoikuSpot_Bouncer.ko |
| 21:37.51 | Wikiwide | In short, there should be a nicer way than that to connect modules to kernel |
| 21:43.08 | Wikiwide | date still disregards GUI timezone entirely |
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| 22:06.08 | sixwheeledbeast | messybox? |
| 22:06.35 | Wikiwide | No idea. Might be somewhat similar to https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=225 |
| 22:12.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | >> So *maybe* the environment within the desktop application is running with a wrong timezone.<< |
| 22:12.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | environment settings in maemo are tricky |
| 22:13.54 | sixwheeledbeast | would the date binary be in messybox :thinks: |
| 22:15.05 | sixwheeledbeast | ~pkg |
| 22:15.06 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/ |
| 22:17.21 | Wikiwide | Yes, time binary is from busybox |
| 22:18.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://pastebin.com/N4dUYtcF |
| 22:18.11 | Wikiwide | tzconfig, just like date, persists with Lord Howe Island timezone, disregarding Settings->Date and time |
| 22:22.20 | sixwheeledbeast | So it's currently zulu +10.5? not Zulu +11? |
| 22:23.41 | Wikiwide | Yes. So date shows one thing, and clock shows another. |
| 22:24.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm pretty sure maemo doesn't care about $TZ $LC_ALL etc |
| 22:24.23 | Wikiwide | tzconfig seems to be getting it from /etc/localtime somehow |
| 22:24.38 | KotCzarny | there are few libc implementations |
| 22:24.46 | KotCzarny | glibc, busybox's one, uclibc etc |
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| 22:25.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | though https://termbin.com/wzxi set|grep '^LC'|nc termbin.com 9999 |
| 22:25.49 | Wikiwide | Problem is, date's half-an-hour ahead of reality time gets used by other things, such as, phone call log. Very inconvenient. |
| 22:27.54 | Wikiwide | I have everything en_AU except for LC_MESSAGES and LC_TIME, which are en_GB |
| 22:30.28 | Wikiwide | Lord Howe comes from readlink /etc/localtime |
| 22:30.50 | sixwheeledbeast | Isn't /etc/localtime normally a symlink to /usr/share/zoneinfo/foo/bar ? |
| 22:32.17 | Wikiwide | Yes, it is. But why is it a symlink to Lord Howe, and not to Adelaide or Sydney or whatever? Why does a change in GUI settings fail to affect date and tzconfig and localtime? |
| 22:33.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo is special, don't get fooled |
| 22:34.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly around everything time, quite a few things work different than you'd expect assuming maemo was debian or ubuntu |
| 22:34.37 | Wikiwide | Is it even typical for maemo to have /etc/localtime symlink, or is it usually falling back onto some other mechanism for timezones? |
| 22:34.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ |
| 22:35.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | check "set time: automatic" in settings, which not only adjusts system clock but also timezone according to what the cellular network says |
| 22:36.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | as long as you didn't mess up stuff by using standard debian means to alter it |
| 22:38.10 | Wikiwide | Hmm, I used tzconfig to set timezone to Adelaide. That's a patchy fix - I don't get why GUI didn't work, and I don't get why Sydney cellular network pretends it's Adelaide - but at least, it's consistent. |
| 22:38.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's quite possible the symlink (if there's any, even) points to one particular file statically and when TZ gets changed by maemo stuff then the *content* of the file gets changed |
| 22:38.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | or maybe this is total BS I just made up |
| 22:39.04 | Wikiwide | Nay, symlink pointed to Lord Howe, not to a statical hold-anything file |
| 22:39.22 | Wikiwide | Now it points to Adelaide |
| 22:39.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 33 2019-02-25 22:32 /etc/localtime -> /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/Berlin |
| 22:40.13 | Wikiwide | Yes, problem is, GUI changes didn't change date or tzconfig or localtime, whether they were manual or automatic |
| 22:40.36 | Wikiwide | GUI is probably broken. Which sounds weird |
| 22:41.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 842 2015-02-28 19:16 /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/Berlin |
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| 22:41.23 | sixwheeledbeast | Time zones make no sense over there anyway... |
| 22:41.23 | sixwheeledbeast | Brizzy ignore DST, some have half hour DST shift. o.O |
| 22:42.22 | Wikiwide | Aka applet-datetime |
| 22:44.41 | Wikiwide | Where does control panel log errors from its applets? |
| 22:44.56 | sixwheeledbeast | Setting my device to automatic never seems to fix the time/date. |
| 22:45.56 | Wikiwide | sixwheeledbeast: does 'date' at least change its output when you change timezone in Settings? |
| 22:46.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: depends on network providing the info afaik |
| 22:47.11 | Wikiwide | It provides info, just, the timezone is 'Adelaide', in Sydney ;-) |
| 22:49.00 | Wikiwide | That's critical infrastructure. If trains go mad (say, one train has one time, another train has a different time - depending on which cellular provider is for which train, or which software the train is using; they try to run by timetable, and collide head-on) |
| 22:49.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm pretty sure trains are not supposed to use cellphones as timer normal |
| 22:50.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | can't speak for Australia |
| 22:50.36 | Wikiwide | Hopefully not. But GPS and cellular chips are very close to each other, and using GPS for time is common. |
| 22:50.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | here you get lynched for doing this |
| 22:51.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | GPS time is pretty unrelated to cellular |
| 22:51.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | however maemo might actually use GPS when celular signal not available |
| 22:51.44 | Wikiwide | Yes, but what if GPS signal isn't locked yet?.. Or is GPS time much faster to get than GPS almanach? |
| 22:52.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | you get a first fix within iirc 45s |
| 22:52.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | even without almanach |
| 22:52.30 | Wikiwide | And, GPS doesn't provide a timezone. I think. |
| 22:52.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, only coords ;-D |
| 22:52.59 | Wikiwide | So, where do trains get timezone from? |
| 22:53.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | from their own signaling & communications infra? |
| 22:54.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | they neither use cellphones tzo talk to next station |
| 22:54.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, not public cellphone networks, thjey got their own |
| 22:54.39 | Wikiwide | Communications infra? Is it cellular, or something else (wires, radio, something)? |
| 22:54.57 | Wikiwide | Well, their own are probably better configured. |
| 22:55.31 | sixwheeledbeast | /etc/localtime symlink changes when you change the timezone with the clock. I have 9.55 in Sydney |
| 22:56.01 | sixwheeledbeast | date is the same as clock |
| 22:56.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | often at 400some MHz |
| 22:56.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2G |
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| 22:58.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | wouldn't be surprised to learn messybox-extended or whatever the name is messing up all environment using some chenged ~/.profile or .bashrc or whatever during system boot |
| 22:59.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I recommended to NEVER change the system messybox since it's used during boot incl all flaws and glitches it has |
| 22:59.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody listened |
| 23:00.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | funny enough this applies only to *user* messybox, not root's |
| 23:01.03 | sixwheeledbeast | automatic seemed to work and set the clock correctly this time |
| 23:01.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | haha |
| 23:01.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | takes up to 15 minutes sometimes |
| 23:26.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | is missing a systemwide file related function tracing option |
| 23:27.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | like "at <time>, <who/PID> did <operation> to <FQN/filename> with <result>" |
| 23:28.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | might do this if I'd strace PID1 before it starts forking child processes |
| 23:29.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's a sketch of how to do a faintly similar approach, somewhere in maemo developers' howto |
| 23:33.23 | Maxdamantus | Trains shouldn't need a timezone to operate correctly. Timezones are just presentational, they're not part of the notion of "a time" |
| 23:34.04 | Maxdamantus | "now" for me is the same time as "now" for you. We might just have different ways of expressing that same time. |
| 23:36.53 | Maxdamantus | Internally, sensible systems just represent the time uniformly, so my phone and your phone and my computer and all the GPS satellites all know how many seconds have passed since it was Jan 1 1970 in UTC+0 |
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| 23:40.11 | Maxdamantus | Actually, GPS has a different representation of the time, based on Jan 1 1980 in UTC+0, and counting uing weeks and stuff. |
| 23:42.58 | Maxdamantus | Hopefully maemo knows how to handle the next rollover, which happens in a few months (happens every 19.6 or so years) |
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